#Slayers and Onis(Hinokami)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

stiff jay
#

Slayers:
Transparent World: The transparent world would be an interesting idea, like a High Level skill where the player would gain a temporary auto parry or auto dodge, even if it has a short duration, this would be a very interesting system, or it could be something like Blox Fruits' Observation Haki, where you can see the opponent's posture bar, health bar and stamina, and would gain some automatic dodges, in addition to highlighting your enemy. An interesting debuff would be to leave the slayer with fatigue afterwards, where he would do less damage and move slower, or his vision would be bad.
Crimson Blade: It is an excellent mechanic, where the hunter would temporarily obtain the crimson blade, which could temporarily decrease or remove the oni's regeneration, it could be obtained by having a High Level, and doing some quest, where the player would be able to use it temporarily, as a debuff for it, it would be interesting to perhaps make the player's posture bar more ''fragile''
Hunter's Mark: A great mechanic that could be increased, when the hunter is badly injured, he could activate the mark, and thus gain damage and speed buffs, it would also be interesting to decrease the cooldown of skills, perhaps by 15% when the mark is active, it could have a considerable duration, perhaps 60 seconds would be a good duration, and as a debuff the slayer would be extremely weaker, being a last trump card

thorny rapids
#

LevelUp _dio_over_heaven You’ve Reached Level 1

stiff jay
#

Oni:
Berserker Mode: in the manga Nezuko presented a kind of berserker mode, where she gained strength to humiliate the upper Moon 6 Daki, this would be extremely interesting, to give buffs to the onis, although they naturally have to be stronger than the slayers, another oni who used this mode is Kokushibou, in his battle against the hashiras, where his appearance was deformed, it is not known for sure if he made him stronger, but we can assume that yes, it made him much stronger, and honestly with the massive amount of things that Onis have, a mode Berserker does not deserve to receive a Debuff, at least not a severe one. It would be interesting to spend some of the oni's blood bar to activate this mode. Maybe this would already be an adequate debuff.
Ultimates:
In the manga, the Upper Moons always had an Ultimate move, like Gyutaro exploding his body with blood blades, Gyokko and his supreme form along with the ''God Hand'' Douma with his giant ice buddha... it would be interesting for each kekkeijutsu to have some ultimate, which can be used during combat or when the oni is badly injured.

#

srr bad inglish i am using google translate

cyan hinge
#

Hm...

#

Its a good ideia (slayers)

tough falcon
#

Pretty sure slayer marks won’t give buffs

#

They also said no mode gameplay

#

For the ultimates it would probably be a normal move

stiff jay
stiff jay
tough falcon
#

What about see through world

#

If they do add it you probably would only be able to see hp

#

Giving free ap or dodges would kinda be op

stiff jay
tough falcon
#

🤷‍♂️

stiff jay
#

Maybe skills that made countless hits, like the insect breath barrage hit shown in a sneak peak, deactivated the Transparent World

stiff jay
tough falcon
#

I think it’s fine

stiff jay
#

and onis suggest?

tough falcon
#

I think the ultimates are fine

lunar bramble
stiff jay
cyan hinge
stiff jay
tough falcon
lunar bramble
stiff jay
stiff jay
lunar bramble
#

for any temp mode suggestion, even if both sides have it

stiff jay
#

because transparent world and crimison blade not is modes

lunar bramble
#

still not good ideas for balancing

untold blaze
#

The last one should be added as it would equalize the gap between demons and slayers as demons have higher health regeneration

thorny rapids
#

LevelUp kushagra_25072009 You’ve Reached Level 8

lunar bramble
#

The game does not have to be lore accurate, our goal is an equal balance, not following the attrocious story of demon slayer word for word

untold blaze
lunar bramble
#

Is rpg2 the same game as Hinokami? No

fierce dirge
#

dsrpg2 is bad

#

i think using that as comparison for a sequel is a awful idea

heady relic
lunar bramble
heady relic
#

But adding Regen after they eat someone would be good

lunar bramble
#

Not really

#

Cause then you'd have to equal that out somehow

heady relic
#

That would only work after you kill someone

#

So it's not gonna affect a match unless you're fighting multiple people

lunar bramble
#

Throws balance off still

muted dome
#

the concept could work

#

but nit exactly how you put it imo

#

slayer mark in my own vision is best as a requirement you have to meet mid fight, and it'd be passive

#

see-through world allowing you to see health and whatever, that's a fine perk

#

personally not keen on automatic dodges

#

alot of these in itself aren't bad ideas, just matters how you carry them out

lunar bramble
#

We don't want to do any form of power-up style junk, they're not good for combat or balancing

muted dome
#

they aren't necessarily a bad thing for balancing

#

like it's best to not follow what type soul or demonfall does

lunar bramble
#

They are, as whoever transforms first wins if it doesn't do health packs, and if it does, whoever goes second wins

#

In a group fight, transformations are even worse

#

It's not a good system for balancing

muted dome
#

it's not the concept itself that's flawed

lunar bramble
#

...

#

It either is or isn't a health pack on transformation, ontop of any other benefits

#

I simply stated the flaw to both sides of the coin

muted dome
#

nothing implies it needs to be a health pack or a second wind of some sort, it just comes down to what would fit the game

#

if that doesn't fit hinokami, that's fine, it's not needed

lunar bramble
#

I never said anything did

#

I said the flaw of both non-health pack and health pack powerups

#

Non-health pack powerups are just pop first and kill before they get a chance to boost

#

Health pack powerups are pop second and you're more likely to win

#

Powerups like that are not a good addition if you want balancing

muted dome
#

that's why I personally believe things like that in games like this, should be effects that aren't disruptive in combat

lunar bramble
#

As stat boosts, speed boosts, swing speed boosts, regen, etc

#

All would impact combat

muted dome
#

not necessarily, it just rewards you more for playing the game well

lunar bramble
#

Powerups are not a good idea for balancing combat

muted dome
#

it's like a snowball effect, play well enough and the game rewards your perfect play, things like swing speed shouldn't necessarily be touched

lunar bramble
#

And that skews the game further

muted dome
#

it goes both ways

lunar bramble
#

It's not a good idea for balancing lol

muted dome
#

alot of games have relative balance with mechanics like that
it really just matters how severe and how the effects are implemented

lunar bramble
muted dome
#

perfect balance is unachievable, but you can still be creative in making it as balanced as possible

#

that's what makes those things fun and fun to fight

#

alot of developers, specifically on the anime side of roblox, don't think about it being fun to deal with.

lunar bramble
#

We are focusing on a fun and balanced game, fighting powerup modes is almost never fun

#

Since either side of the powerup coin you go with will piss off most people due to being beaten to a pulp because somebody either popped first or second, relative to which side you flipped

muted dome
#

that's fine, I just disagree with the idea that the concept itself is flawed, that's all really

lunar bramble
#

The concept is flawed though, I explained at the most basic level how it is flawed..

#

Either way you go with the powerups will 99% of the time not end well

muted dome
#

you're using examples that have been due to developers who did them badly, which proves my point about them being an execution problem

#

because there are games that really don't have that issue

lunar bramble
#

That's literally just two sides of a coin, you either make it heal or you don't, either way there is an immediate advantage to one user or the other

#

Even at the most basic function, before you even factor in the other buffs, it is an immediate advantage to one user or the other

muted dome
#

how much do the advantages matter when you can still defend against them fairly?

lunar bramble
#

So either way you go, one user will be ahead of the other

muted dome
#

that doesn't exactly line up practically imo
if you're really so focused on balance and advantage state, no character or moveset should really be different

#

because differences inherently cause imbalance

#

it's about compensating in different areas what makes things interesting

lunar bramble
#

The different in kits is easier to balance than a powerup is, since powerups are borderline impossible to make in a manner that isn't bs

muted dome
#

things being different are imbalanced
there will always be an objective best thing to use when there is a difference between one thing and another
what matters is keeping the gaps between them as small as possible to keep it fair between players

lunar bramble
#

You can make two very difference things be equally balanced in potential

#

There are tons of ways to modify and get that outcome

#

It comes down to user skill at that point

muted dome
#

a perfectly balanced game is a game with no differences between characters
everyone has the same tools at their disposal, that would truly be only a test of skill to who wins
when you change things, you're literally imbalancing it for the sake of difference, that's fundamentally why it's called balancing, keeping everything relative to eachother

the act of balancing something is keeping them aline with everything else in the game, hence why completely gutting something to the point of unusability is an example of bad balancing

lunar bramble
#

Things can be balanced without being identical fr

muted dome
#

the goal of a fun fighting game in this context is to have differences, but you keep the gaps between them small to the point where it's not overwhelming to use something else

lunar bramble
#

Your argument here is just becoming less and less coherent and understandable in terms of what you are trying to say

muted dome
#

you can say that, but that's the definition of balance
a game with identical characters is a perfectly balanced game,
it's in the name itself, balance
well balanced games are games with differences but balance their characters well

#

it's implied by the word balance itself

lunar bramble
muted dome
#

that's not entirely true

lunar bramble
#

In most uses, it is true

muted dome
#

I'd disagree with that as well

lunar bramble
#

I don't recall ever hearing somebody use the word balance to refer to things being identical

#

If you look at a balancing scale, you never put two identical items on it

muted dome
#

because in most cases, people aren't referring to perfect balance

lunar bramble
#

You put different items to equal out the weights

muted dome
#

theyre talking about relative balance, which is what most games are based off of

lunar bramble
#

If you're trying to balance an item to keep it from fall off of something, you'll move things around to equal out the weights, though both sides will not be identical usually

#

Balance does not mean identical lol

muted dome
#

if we're talking in context of a fighting game, perfect balance would be everyone having access to the same things
like a zoner vs someone who's up close

#

they don't have the same tools, where they're standing inherently changes how the balance is

lunar bramble
#

Things can be balanced without being identical lol

muted dome
#

things can be well balanced without be identical, I agree

#

not perfectly though which was my first point

lunar bramble
#

I feel like you've hardly been reading a thing I'm saying

muted dome
#

I am, I simply just disagree with you

lunar bramble
muted dome
#

"damn near" isn't

#

which is why I said well balanced it's as simple as that

lunar bramble
#

And powerups are far from a well balanced mechanic

#

Hence why we want to avoid them

#

They are just flat out bad for balancing, no matter the implimentation

muted dome
#

you're fine in thinking that, I just disagree

#

depends alot on how it's implemented

lunar bramble
#

No matter the mechanics and aspects of them, they are always bad for balancing

#

If the game is well balanced without them, they will throw it out of balance

#

And you should never have to add a powerup to balance your game out, else your game has already failed

muted dome
#

there are plenty of games that manage it well, and they're not particularly aggriegious
the fact they have been done well before is showing that it matters on how it's done

lunar bramble
muted dome
#

if it's done well then it should be enjoyable
it should be in line with other things that don't throw off the entire meta because of it existing

lunar bramble
#

I've already explained that

#

Powerups just throw balance off

#

You've provided 0 reasoning as to how to do them well, you've just declined me explaining the fact that even at a base value, they throw off balance

#

With no reasoning or evidence when declining it

#

You're basically just saying "nuh uh" this entire time when provided with qualitative reasoning against your claim

#

I'm basically just speaking to a wall here, though I feel like I'd still be better off doing that

muted dome
#

because I'm arguing at a conceptual stance where you're wrong
if your goal is to create a perfectly balanced game then introducing differences is already throwing off balance itself
the key to good balancing is keeping these gaps small and still fair to deal with for players who encounter it

#

that's what makes games interesting

lunar bramble
#

I said that powerups are horrible for any form of balancing if the game is not already unbalanced

muted dome
#

and I disagreed, because that's not necessarily true

lunar bramble
#

and will immediately give one party or the other an immediate advantage in an evenly matched fight

lunar bramble
#

you are not giving any counterclaims or explanation as to how it is wrong

#

you are just saying no and then trying to change the topic

muted dome
#

I've also explained my point, I've countered it, you just dont agree that it does

lunar bramble
muted dome
#

I don't necessarily care if you do or not, since I've said it plainly

lunar bramble
#

you've just said that they can

#

and nothing more

muted dome
#

I'm pretty sure that's one of the first things I've said in this thread

lunar bramble
#

you said nothing for how to balance powerups to make them well

muted dome
#

I already have stated how I'd handle it specifically
because I disagree with how other games have handled them
all you've done is say why you think the concept of it in general is flawed

#

and I disagreed with that

#

it's as simple as that

lunar bramble
#

your counter argument to me explaining how it is unbalanced was just you disagreeing

#

with no reasoning for disagreeing

muted dome
#

make it passive, it shouldn't be something that disrupts combat
it simply rewards you for playing the game well

and your counter to that was it making good players harder to beat
my response to you was that it goes both ways

lunar bramble
#

rather than just saying "nah you're wrong" explain how somebody is wrong

lunar bramble
#

buffing somebody who is already winning due to playing well actively makes combat worse

#

as it skews the fight further

muted dome
#

it goes both ways
and I've already made my point on health

lunar bramble
#

that's basically just saying "yeah you are kicking their ass, here be stronger so it is even less fun for the other player"

#

part of your argument is to make it fun, yet your ideas for how to do it would actively make it far less fun

muted dome
#

you're free to think that

lunar bramble
#

and your counter argument when I said that prior was "I disagree"

#

no reasoning

#

just that you disagree

#

despite having been given logical reasoning as to why it is not good for balancing

#

you've used no actual reasoning to justify how it can be good for balancing

#

you're just saying "nah"

muted dome
#

I've given my case pretty clearly tbh

#

it's just that we won't agree

#

I don't necessarily care if we do or not

lunar bramble
muted dome
#

if that's what you think, that's fine
doesn't change that I gave it pretty clearly

lunar bramble
muted dome
#

for someone who feels like he's talking to a wall, you're pretty intent on continuing

lunar bramble
#

to use reasoning and logic

#

rather than saying no

#

I want to read actual reasoning for how it can be balanced

#

yet all I am recieving is "nah"

muted dome
#

and I gave mine, it's just that we won't agree on eachothers stances
there's not much reason to continue to conversate

lunar bramble
#

I've been waiting on it the entire time

#

you said you played a game that did it well then never explained how they did it well

#

you just said you disagreed

muted dome
#

you already acknowledged that in calling me a "wall"
if I'm a wall, then "logically" the best course of action is to disengage

lunar bramble
fierce dirge
#

what do you think modes are

#

they're buffs

#

that either give 1. power or speed buffs or 2. health packs

#

which both fall under categories scout pointed out under winning for activating first or last

#

how are you defending this

#

feel free to give me another buff that doesnt affect power or speed though and have an actual point

#

shounen studio try to have an existent point challenge

#

(impossible) (gone wrong)

tough falcon
untold blaze
untold blaze
muted dome
#

the point of what I say is to make sure things like thst are well balanced, because any time you add something that is different into a game, you need to balance it according to what's already in it

#

hence making modes just "whoever uses it first" is bad design because it shows that the game is centralized on modes

#

someone getting a passive 5% dmg increase mid combat isn't throwing off the whole balance of a game simply because of a buff, you're being hyperbolic

#

Having perfect balance isn't something you can achieve in a game where you have many different tools between them
one of those tools in this context is a buff

#

the key to making these good are being able to balance said tools into what you already have there, and sometimes it's not as simple as just changing stats around

fierce dirge
#

Modes do not need to be added

muted dome
#

debate brained = having a convo?

fierce dirge
#

They throw balancing off and itd take infinitely more tries to get it even semi usable

fierce dirge
muted dome
muted dome
fierce dirge
#

Example?

muted dome
#

You play any fighting games?
if you are, you should be familiar with installs

#

theyre basically modes
examples of them are Sol, Badguy, KY, they come to kind for me

theyre basically buffs, in xrd Rev 2, sol had an insane one that centralized his gameplay

fierce dirge
#

Are you really about to compare a fighting game to an rpg

thorny rapids
#

LevelUp landoftwilight You’ve Reached Level 16

muted dome
#

he didn't need it, but he was very threatening to deal with

now ky, he has an install, but it's not overwhelming to the point to where it's not overwhelming but he still benefits from it

muted dome
#

deepwoken is an rpg, but it's still majorly focused on pvp
the same philosophies of balance are used because "balance" isn't locked to just one type of game

#

some games value balance differently

fierce dirge
#

You are comparing a gg game

#

To a roblox rpg

#

Completely seperate ideas

#

Like not even able to compare to eachother

muted dome
#

and I told you why in this context why the philosophy of balancing still applies

fierce dirge
#

When you balance a game

#

You consider the game mechanics FOR THAT GAME

#

Fine let me fix me question

#

Give me roblox game

#

That has a good mode system

muted dome
#

okay, then read back on the conversation
because the context here is obviously balance between slayers/demons, movesets

fierce dirge
#

Or even a pvp rng

fierce dirge
muted dome
#

and why are you treating roblox games like it's some kind of separate standard?
Games are games, roblox fighting games and rpgs aren't subject to different rules just for being on roblox

muted dome
#

philosophy isn't even a buzzword

#

it's a simple definition

#

if anything you calling it a buzzword makes it seem like you're just throwing it around

fierce dirge
muted dome
#

ok define philosophy

#

since you want to go there

fierce dirge
#

Is this what this is devolving into

muted dome
#

you steered it here

thorny rapids
#

LevelUp manaketoh You’ve Reached Level 11

fierce dirge
#

It is so incredibly frustrating to have someone reiterate the same point that has been shut down 6 times

muted dome
#

not really, his argument has been that modes throw off balance entirely
that they're horrible if you want to have a balanced game

fierce dirge
#

Okay let me put this into perspective for you

muted dome
#

what I'm saying is that anything you introduce will throw off the balanced game, it's the role of balancing that makes sure these things aren't overwhelming, it's why I said the argument is hyperbolic, greatly exaggerated

fierce dirge
#

You are someone over here fighting for something that has a lengthy history of making balancing terrible on roblox

fierce dirge
muted dome
#

yes, and I acknowledged that specifically

#

devs on roblox have ideas and concepts and carry them out badly

fierce dirge
#

And you, as someone who hasnt seen the game before, was still consistently arguing against somebody who personally knows the devs

#

And the game

#

But you still sit here to die on this hill

muted dome
#

that's irrelevant to the conversation entirely, because it's not about the game specifically
it's about the concept of modes being bad for balancing in general.

fierce dirge
#

Why even bring that here though

#

Actual debate brain to start something unrelated

#

And keep going with it

muted dome
#

because I disagreed with his statement that he made?
it's related to what he said

#

you're looking for something that isn't necessarily there

#

if anything my first statements here were that I said that the idea could work conceptually, just not how he put them

#

making alot of assertions of me that I haven't made about anyone here

fierce dirge
#

Okay. Do you think modes would make the game better

muted dome
#

if well done, I think they could improve any game, as long as it fits within the game and it's mechanics
not every game needs one, but the idea of it itself isn't flawed.

#

that's pretty much it

#

I can make the same statements about parry and stun based combat, other mechanics, whatever really

#

not every game needs either one if these to be "good" or improve

#

but doing them well in the context of the game will arguably always improve it, and shows that the devs can work well with it

fierce dirge
#

I dont think everyones views here were all that different

#

I just think that the main issue was modes

#

And 99% of roblox games

#

Will not work without it being absolutely abominable for balancing

muted dome
#

yeah I know that most devs don't know or can't bother how to make them work, they're not really focused on things like balance

fierce dirge
#

They just overall dont care enough, but i dont think it fits well with roblox in general because of how limited the systems are atm

#

I think the modes can either be completely useless

#

Or be absolutely determining in pvp

#

Which is the core issue

muted dome
#

I don't necessarily think the issue is with roblox mechanically
it's mainly just the people who make it, but most popular examples are things like type soul or demonfall

#

theyre simple and easy to do

#

just give a health pack and a Stat increase with some passives

#

to make a balanced mode that's still effective and not overcentralizing takes creativity and some thought

#

which is basically why I argued against them all being bad

fierce dirge
#

Not that the game is gonna be like conpletely following demon shitter lore or anything

muted dome
#

It doesn't have to abide by lore, yeah, many things don't translate well into gameplay

fierce dirge
#

But the kinds of buffs you can give in that situation that arent overcentralizing are limited

fierce dirge
#

Was because of the context

#

It just doesnt translate

muted dome
#

somewhat unrelated, but from my personal approach
I like to see what can be done and still be cool and not annoying to deal with for players

#

especially if you're making a game based off a property

#

i think things like that from devs who manage to make things work is what makes a game stand out specifically

fierce dirge
#

I think they want the game to be competitively viable

#

Like dsrpg2 was for a while

#

They want a community of pvp driven people that are active so i think they want to make the game as balanced as possible for those individuals if that makes sense

muted dome
#

yeah they're uneeded, if what they're going for is what I know so far is fine, there's not an issue with it

#

after all I'm waiting for the game as well

#

I'm just a concept/concept art guy
so I like these kinds of conversations

fierce dirge
#

I think it was mostly a misunderstanding on eachothers stances

muted dome
#

every time we seem to have that

#

lol

lunar bramble
muted dome
#

and I already gave my statement to why that isn't the case

#

we're not reaching a consensus, not sure why you're responding to me.