#Stun Mechanic

145 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

jolly vector
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The game relies upon this mechanic for mobs way too much. I don't play as much as I used to because of this.

peak bolt
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I suspect it's a matter of perception. Event if there are ten different types of mobs in the area, and only one type stuns, you encounter that type often. If only stuns is the issue, then you feel like they stun you all the time, but that's only because the other types don't matter.
Can you tell us about a specific area where stun is over dominant, so we can discuss your most favorable example?

chrome hornet
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In a broad sense, stuns just feel bad. It’s a mechanic with a very binary (aka basically nonexistent) counterplay. You either get stun immunity or just lose control of your character for some duration. If there were more things like cow which could punish the stun, it’d be more interesting.

raven magnet
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unarmed can de-stun you

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the problem i have with it is its shows abilities off of cooldown after getting un-stunned, and they aren't.

limber oar
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Most stuns for mobs are their rage attacks no? Manage rage or get stun breaking/immuntiy/resistance. most tank skills have something like that.

velvet swift
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I agree, I don't think it's reasonable that mobs that are significantly lower level than you can reliably stun you. When you're new to the game, you're already overwhelmed, you shouldn't have to divert to level a skill like Alchemy (I assume that's what has stun counters), particularly if you had no intention of leveling it in the first place, just to avoid being stunlocked to death. When certain skills feel mandatory it railroads people and harms build diversity. The same is also true of mobs that need to be stunned. Many builds do not have a reliable stun and often getting one requires a niche augment. For example, I'm playing a Knife/Animal Handling trauma based build with Chopjaw. Only stun is either use Graz (doesn't synergise with overall build) or use a specific Venomstrike augment, but that's poison damage. I haven't levelled Graz since I got Chopjaw, so he's under levelled for the content I'm in now.

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We have a lot of trouble hitting mobs much higher level than us, why should lower level mobs be able to consistently stun us?

frosty crag
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I wanna be able to run around a low level zone (and especially dungeon) with a max level build without being stunned every 5 seconds for 2-3 seconds. It adds zero value to the gameplay imo and is just disruptive and annoying. As a result I just mass-murder everything in view in those low level areas, which means I kill the stuff the on-level people levelling in those areas need.

limber oar
velvet swift
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I got killed again today, this time in the Rahu mining area, due to excessive CC. For reference I'm 90 Knife/95 Animal Handling, these are 60 mobs. It was the knockback on the jailers that killed me, which doesn't even need rage to activate. One jailer knocked me back into another, which knocked me into another and so forth, until a ton of mobs got aggroed. Once I finally stopped getting knocked around like a pinball, I got stunned and died. At no point did it seem like there was any real counterplay. The jailer spawned on top of me as I mined a node.

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I understand that this game is trying to capture the "old school" feeling but I would point out even Ultima Online had counterplay to CC. There were diminishing returns on stun duration from the Paralyze spell and trapped pouches could get you out of it.

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Please implement some sort of consumable or potion or something so that we don't have to run specific skills to counter CC.

peak bolt
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Several items have a percentage to avoid knockback on them.

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Bat Stability : you are immune to knockback and stuns for 12s.

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By being a Vampire you can turn into a giant bat at will. Now you know what to do! 🙂

limber oar
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Also giving certain skills a “can be used while stunned” feels right to me.

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(Something I see already being done)

coarse flume
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I enjoy the stun mechanic as is. I have friends who cry about it though, but I feel it’s a perfectly reasonable mechanic

velvet swift
coarse flume
tacit bobcat
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Removing a players agency is something that many D&D DM’s /DM guides recommend against. I believe this extends to most MMO RPG’s in terms of the way it makes the player feel.

The general advice I see is… don’t get between a player and their character, get between the character and the world.

I don’t play tank much at the moment so I don’t have a great sense of how often tanks are dealing with stuns but from my DnD experience I can resonate with the frustration that comes from feeling like your agency has been removed and I see a similar vibe to the feedback folks are giving here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/mr3i65/never_instantly_kill_or_stun_a_player_longer_than/

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coarse flume
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This game is not DnD though

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And who cares about general advice. It’s Eric’s game, he can literally make it however he wants. People who feel very strongly about things are free to make their own game. I feel it’s pretty wild to tell someone “general opinion is this, so make your game more like that”

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“Most DnD GMs are against stuns, so change your video game not based on DnD to match this”
Sorta weird no?

tacit bobcat
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I wasn’t advocating for a change - I don’t have enough tanking experience in PG to have encountered stun fatigue.

My intent was to highlight a similarity among RPG’s and sharing sentiment found from other perspectives and try to help provide insight into why players may feel this way.

Also not sure what your point is with all the thought-terminating statements (“who cares about general advice”/“Eric can literally make it however he wants”, “go make your own game”). My dude, we are literally in the suggestions-discussion channel.

raven magnet
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lol

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thinking more about it though, it might circle back to rage mechanics

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and the weird stat that is in

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so you need to kill stuff quick enough to not die, giving the enemy rage, which stuns you which makes you die

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i really only ever experience the stunlock in nmc when spiders are involved

tacit bobcat
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I was thinking it might be fun to have more telegraphed attacks that we can interrupt.

E.g., venosaur collecting sunlight before solar beam kinda situation

The rage bar works like this in a way but you can only prolong a rage attack so long. Having other attacks with telegraphing would add more counter play mechanics

raven magnet
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yea for sure. everytime i see enemies psyching up some group buff, i instantly try to stun that shit so it doesnt go off

tacit bobcat
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Sometimes I let them group buff, depending on the enemy if that buff isn’t too worrisome then you kinda get a free self-stun on that enemy 😁

coarse flume
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@tacit bobcat
“Don’t stand on the red floor”
That’s all the frustration some people can handle and that’s fine.
The reason for those comments was just, if you’re playing PG (and not just life skilling) you signed up for pain

coarse flume
chrome hornet
raven magnet
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I can agree to that. More options wouldn’t hurt. There is a ton of gear you can get with no stun % chance, but…itll never get that high because they share slots. Also orcish battle cry from 4 pc orcish armor…but at the cost of 4 pcs of metal armor that may or may not be useful to you beyond that.

waxen elm
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There's "signing up for pain", and then there's frustrating game mechanics that don't add anything other than make you mad, and make it more likely for newbies to quit. My husband is one of them, he works long hours and has maybe an hour daily to play PG - he is close to quitting for good for a few reasons, but stuns are one of his main concerns
All stuns should have diminishing returns like the mantises rage attack does, there's no reason not to

waxen elm
# coarse flume And who cares about general advice. It’s Eric’s game, he can literally make it h...

That is a very harmful opinion. You don't have to have experience working with a thing to voice your concerns about it
You're also forgetting that games only succeed thanks to their community. If people playing your game repeatedly raise voices about something, and especially if they're veterans, you really should at least consider their opinion. Is that not the whole point of #1225657007651033199 ?

coarse flume
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There’s enough of those. Sorry if I said mean bad words

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Your husband can try sword shield with 100% stun resist

raven magnet
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Or~~ hammer~~, or unarmed, or something with priest or bard.

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Cow

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or 4 piece orcish armor

limber oar
raven magnet
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you're absolutely right. for some reason i thought rib shatter had a second mod that was for stuns not just roots...but i seem to be misremembering..

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Probably just confusing it with bard’s 3bamomentofresolve mods

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sorry about any confusion.

jolly vector
coarse flume
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I quit playing ff14 because I never got stunlocked

raven magnet
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i will say that reducing rage will prevent a stun in most cases too

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even if thats less attainable at later levels.

covert turret
# coarse flume I just….hate games that coddle the player

You're mistaking tediousness for challenge. It's not about "making the game easier" so that lazy players can have it all, lmao. That's a 2005 WoW player's POV, and it doesn't add to the debate because you are trying to demean the actual argument by implying players are lazy which doesn't matter anyway, because laziness isn't inherently bad. The points people are discussing are, in fact, very valid concerns about the game's mechanics.

Getting stun-locked by creatures consistently is not a great experience and it's not challenging; it's dissuasive. It discourages the current build composition from places where it can't handle stuns. The capacity to handle stuns is also extremely limited to a handful of skills.

I get that you want to provide counter-arguments, which generally enriches a conversation, but only if those arguments are real and well-grounded otherwise its noise

coarse flume
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I disagree wholeheartedly

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I feel that people who get really upset about being stunned for 4 seconds in a game have some deeper lying issues, such as worrying about how much time they have left in life or have serious anxiety and those 4 seconds of not being able to hit buttons brings these feelings up

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I feel that these things should be worked on outside of the game and not projected as their bad feelings being the games fault

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It’s a role playing game where you and NPCs play a role. Some of their roles are to stun

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I don’t really want to talk any more about this so I won’t post here anymore

covert turret
blissful ore
cursive ember
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thoughts on a WOP that gives u stun reduction or stun immunity

fallow thunder
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Since we're thinking along these lines, how about a sigil scripting sigil that gives immunity to stuns while you stand inside it? Sorta like Clear Skies for WW

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There really does need to be more interplay between statuses and other mechanics.

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In particular, healing skills should really have more status curing stuff.

jolly vector
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I mean, in WoW you can be knocked down, your action is interrupted, you get back up again. Or, if you're spell casting, your spells takes longer to cast because you're being hit, but you're not prevented from doing anything. And Priests have that shield spell to temporarily make them safe, mages can Frost Nova and jump back to create space, Priests can Fear if in a desperate situation. 'Locks and Hunters have pets to take the aggro so they're not even getting hit. Rogues can say "screw it" and vanish or sprint away if things are going horribly wrong. Our characters just have to stand there and get beat on unless we play one specific build.

wraith dune
# jolly vector I mean, in WoW you can be knocked down, your action is interrupted, you get back...

that's not quite true, i remember from classic wow that there were mobs that would blind or sheep you. But yeah, it was pretty rare.
I agree that Stun is way overused by mobs in PG. I think a big part of the problem is that the rage mechanic isn't really working out. I've also noticed that mobs don't reset their rage between encounters, so it might happen that you engage a mob and he stuns you right away because he already had a full rage bar.

jolly vector
cursive ember
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Yeah I definitely remember running on a horse past the hill with mantises and snails in eltibule and got randomly stunned because I set it on auto walk and I just so happened to not be fast enough I guess for it to go through its hit animation?

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It forced me off my horse because I couldn’t do anything while I got swarmed with a few mobs

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And then I had to sprint out

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What if stuns don’t land unless ur armor is gone or below some threshold of some kind

limber oar
jolly vector
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Helped a couple of guys get necro this morning. Stun, stun, stun, stunned so more. GAWD this mechanic is MASSIVELY over-used. And I don't want to hear about "mitigating their rage". Most things that stun you, that's their opening move.

fallow thunder
cursive ember
fast hare
# jolly vector Helped a couple of guys get necro this morning. Stun, stun, stun, stunned so mor...

Yes, some things, specifically skeletal swordsmen, do it a lot. And you were in the crypt.
Stun on rage is a foreseeable thing, especially as you get used to the attack style of certain mobs. Similar to bears mauling you. I fear bears like nothing else. 🙂 Because controlling rage seems like a losing game, players just hit as hard as they can. I know I ignore Sooth and similar abilities. It won't make a difference, most of the time.

Of course, at the same time that mobs do it, players use stun to their advantage. I can only imagine how much the mobs complain about us after a hard day's work.
"How was work dear? Kill a few rabbits with the pack? Catch a player?"
"It sucked. Ringo went after a fething fox and we had to follow him in. Pack rules."
"Didn't we kill most of the foxes?"
"Yeah, but some got away. This one was a sneaky little shit, taunted Ringo, and we piled on. Then it's all flaming fists in our snouts and we're stunned, and on fire! We were so pissed and going to rage on the little shit, but he does this hip throw shit and sends us all tumbling away. Still on fire!
"Oh, you poor dear. But you got him in the end."
"...."
"I said, you got him in the end. You did kill the fox? Right? That fist attack has a cooldown, you know."
"We tried. We dogpiled him, and he pounced on Ringo, killing him. The rest of us got knocked back again and stunned by a wave of darkness.
"oh dear."
"Then it exploded with a ring of fire and scampered off. We hid under a bush to make sure it was gone."
"Sigh...you take it easy dear, and think up some lies to tell the puppies. I'll take this haunch of venison over to Ringo's. I'm sure they're organizing a howl for him."
"It's just...."
"What dear?"
"It's just so unfair. STUN SUCKS!"
"It always has. Tell the puppies Ringo died fighting a dragon and bring them along later. They need practice howling. And don't you say a word about STUN. There's time enough to explain that horror when they get older."

cursive ember
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That’s a cute story, but knowing that Shauma is a long term player means that she’s likely at end game. This means she probably walked into crypt lvl 75+ and got chained cc and the only way I can imagine that happening is if you’re a melee class and got mobbed by multiple skeleton swordsmen. In this case, I feel like at very least if the mob is at least 30 levels below yours make it so their attacks miss or something/give an evasion boost so stuns are less likely to hit.

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Melee classes have it the worst especially if they don’t have stun removal or mitigation

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Fortunately I am not one of those because I majority play ranged classes, but I can only imagine what it’s like to just be stunned repeatedly without being able to do anything

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Hell, you could pull the cow move and give some classes the ability to fight back while stunned and I’m sure that would also be beneficial to players who are experiencing frustration with the stun mechanic

cyan osprey
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I do kind of wish that diminishing returns on CC were a bit more potent or lasted a little longer, I'm not sure which would be more beneficial.

cyan osprey
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Eating a few stuns is fine and all but just being chain stunned until either you die or you've cleared enough of the stunning mobs is annoying. The fact that it seems to be more prone to happening in lower level content just makes it worse for new players (at least from what I can remember).

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Like mentioned earlier this might just be more of a rage mechanic issue. It feels like some rage attacks should have a cool down in addition to the rage bar requirements so they can't just spam rage attacks.

jolly vector
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Yeah, 85 in fire and staff, just blasting a path for people who wanted to be necro. I can understand, even at my level, being stunned or knocked-back by a rhinoceros the size of a tour bus, but trash mobs? The best way to mitigate stun is still to obliterate everything in your path as quickly as possible. If they're dead, they can't stun you.

jolly vector
slate sigil
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I didnt think it was a problem but just recently hit kur mountains and it makes the game infuriating. The combat was fun up until a 10 second fight gets doubled and most of the time youre not even controlling your character. fighting 2 mobs im basically just hoping they dont stun me from beginning to end. the shaman mobs summon a cold orb then stun you inside it. The whole place is stun, knockback, stun. To me the least fun thing about any game is losing control of your character. I really hope this doesnt continue through the game.

fast hare
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The yeti area isn't real popular, I agree, but that's only a small part of kur. Each piece has its challenges.

limber oar
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I was doing Ice Caves today and got stunned by every mob. They started with full rage for some reason. It’s got to be a bug.

torn pine
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playing lotro recently and most classes there have a stun removal skill, it works well there. maybe a skill (like mycology/alchemy) should have a sidebar skill like that.

fast hare
limber oar
fast hare
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If it's too easy and negates stun, then it leads to a lot of things in the game needing redoing. Some skills and items let you resist stun, and an easy way for everyone to do it would make those skills and items worthless. Also, make many mobs trivial; not that many are difficult if you carefully pull. But why have a rage mechanic that is avoidable?

fallow thunder
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Saying that having more ways to resist stun devalues armor set X or ability Y just reminds me of those WoW players who would fume at the idea that other people newer to the game would have an easier time getting mounts or what have you

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Stun is not a good mechanic

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At the end of the day, the point of a game is to have fun, and losing control of your character is not fun.

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If, for whatever reason, stun must exist as a monster ability, there should be tons of counterplay options

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Also, maybe this is just me, but Rage counterplay seems totally useless.

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I'm never going to be able to reduce rage faster than mobs generate it, especially in group content

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It is a miracle if reduction manages to reach 'noticeable difference', at least with all the skills I've been using.

slate sigil
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I think being stunned is ok, its the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th stun that is not fun.\

fast hare
fallow thunder
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If that's your stance, I'd say you missed the point or are being purposefully antagonistic, but meh

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Stun and the mechanics surrounding it are inherently flawed, but that isn't the problem I had with your statement

coarse flume
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Thats an opinion

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I believe stun is in a good spot and no change is needed

fallow thunder
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Again, WoW vets hating new players getting mounts more easily than they did is how your statement came off

fallow thunder
coarse flume
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The wise man looks upon getting stunned and getting yellows as the same

fallow thunder
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ugh

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no

coarse flume
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Taking stuns out of this game would be like taking jelly out of a peanut butter and jelly

fallow thunder
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Please don't.

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I know you're probably joking, but the weird philosophizing makes me want to hit my head against a wall

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sorta like being stunned!

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Which explains why you like it, to be fair

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But sure, if we're mixing metaphors, I'd see the stun as... a nail in the middle of my PG sandwich. Why is there a nail in there?

coarse flume
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Coming from FF14, I actually LOVE the stuns in this game
In FF14 i would BEG the monsters to do ANYTHING that could affect me AT ALL to make it seem like the enemies in my game had SOME kind of POWER
But NO
All you get in FF14 is “dont stand in red floor”

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Interactive enemies

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Its golden to me

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The rage meter is brilliant

fallow thunder
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I don't honestly feel like they're reactive or interactive at all

coarse flume
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Its refreshing to play a game thats challenging

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Come on man you have a cat boi pfp how can u even say that

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You KNOW what im talking about

fallow thunder
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Rage is just a resource that happens but not one that I interact with at all. I've tried rage reduction builds, and I've never actually noticed an effect whatsoever

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It's like calling a wave reactive/interactive

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it occurs

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but that's it

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And I farking hate losing control of my character, tbh

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I've never believed that CC actually enriches a game

coarse flume
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Project Gorgon is the gigachad of MMO

fallow thunder
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I don't even know what that's supposed to mean in this context

coarse flume
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Just give it some thought

fallow thunder
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I'd rather theorycraft or think about dinner plans tbh

coarse flume
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There we go

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Some people hate spice in their food.
Stun is the spice of Gorgon

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Wow is bland no spice

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Even having a belf on the wall, spiciness level of black pepper, was considered too spicy

balmy void
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As I was considering how to help this thread be more constructive, I jumped back to the beginning. There's no suggestion at the outset. So I scroll down and find what looks like a good suggestion: #1376613264334520381 message

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Treating #1225657007651033199 as a feedback channel misses the point, which is to share and build good ideas for possible change. So as I close this thread, if you still have great suggestions about stun mechanics, you can start a new post and I will add the link to your idea here.