linguistic-hub

[short plaza]

Bonjour

[magic isle]

I think mandarin has an average-ish syllable complexity compared to world languages

english just happens to have pretty high syllable complexity

[nocturne vale]

Speaking of which

Anyone needs help with russian?

[short plaza]

im learning french

[nocturne vale]

I'm sorry to hear that

Going through the same

[short plaza]

Ur russian btw?

[nocturne vale]

Moldova

[short plaza]

Icic im from the Philippines nice to meet you lol

[high swift]

oh i've just found out about this club now, but i'm intrigued

[nocturne vale]

Not much is happening

[high swift]

is this channel specifically designed for other languages or can we discuss english linguistics?

[magic isle]

[sullen garden]

English linguistics is fine.

[sharp basin]

oh hello mate i'm native French
I can help for speaking and stuff
Yes French makes 90% of the time nonsense

[short plaza]

Pog

[subtle plaza]

I remember there is this youtube short titled "French is Hard" or something like that
and its about how crazy french homonyms can be

[magic isle]

french spelling

still not as cursed as english spelling
but sometimes, it sure tries

[dry drum]

Jaye's E2 promotion text is cursed.

Boss, I figured it out. If you just treat the enemy as food, this battle thing is a lot easier.
He sounds like a crazed cannibal smh.
However, in the voiceline in Japanese he pronounces "shokuzai" - ingredients, not food. He is comparing battle to cooking, not eating.

[sharp basin]

Yeah French is bullshit
like you have the homonyms "vert" "vers" "ver" "verre"
they all sound the same and to know the difference you have to know and understand the context

so we can have something along the lines
"le ver vert va vers le verre"
which can translate to "the green worm goes to the glass"

[oblique otter]

well, it is constrained in that you can only have 1 syllable per word

and the combinations of sounds is actually lower than most indo-euro languages

[nocturne vale]

In romanian, indefinite articles behave as numerals in the context of enumerating the amount of multiple things

For example: "Un caiet și două pixuri."(One notebook and two pens)

But ”Un caiet” would just mean ”A notebook”

Oh and the definite article is part of the word
In the word ”caietul” (Τhe notebook), "-ul" is the definite article

Or is it just "-l"?

Yeah, for masculine singular, "-l" is the definite article. I don't know why the "u" is not considered part of it

[magic isle]

I would guess it's epenthetic (so you don't have *-tl at the end of a word, which is fairly difficult to pronounce)

[magic isle]

that's the thing I guess
from an indo-euro perspective yeah it probably seems lower than average complexity
but there are a lot of CV CV CV... or restricted CVC languages out there

[restive sky]

Samidare in linguistic club

[oblique otter]

True, but from a "commonly spoken languages" perspective, it indeed has less usable syllables

[magic isle]

Yeah weighted by number of speakers that’s true

it’s average complexity because the Chinese put their thumb, hand, torso, and body weighing down the scales towards mandarin

[nocturne vale]

Do native english speakers find it hard to learn genders for the words in foreign languages?

[worthy needle]

It can be difficult for some English speakers given the language itself does not have gendered words like French for example.

That's really more down to a person's aptitude for learning other languages though and how they learn them.

[nocturne vale]

Yikes French. Even as a native romance language speaker i find it difficult to distinguish feminine and masculine nouns

[worthy needle]

I took a couple years of French and I completely forgot the language. French is just a weird language.

[nocturne vale]

Here's a personal thing that i find weird

Like, i understand why i would understand spoken Russian since i was and still am exposed to a lot of it

But how did i learn to read it?

We start learning the alphabet in 5th grade, yet i could read it earlier

Though with mistakes, i still had the general idea

[worthy needle]

The way I remember French is that you have the articles définis (definite articles) in how you interpret the usage of masculine, feminine and plurality. La, le, les, l' for the most basic word, the.

It comes down to your ability to memorize and actively correlate them in daily usage.

I don't have a need to use French in daily life therefore it's a very degradable skill.

Hence why I barely remember it

[nocturne vale]

Yea i legit found more English speakers in my country than French speakers

[worthy needle]

English has much more use internationally in our current times, previously French would have been in a similar scenario.

So you're more likely to find people who can speak English in some form or another given how widespread it's usage is.

For example in Korean we use a lot of loan words from English because there is no native word for it.

Teamwork, Television, stuff like that.

[nocturne vale]

I recently saw a video in which it was mentioned that english influenced Chinese as well

Usually the younger generation

[worthy needle]

I'm not too certain about Chinese but I know Korean definitely uses a lot of loanwords for terms that we don't have a native equivalent to.

Hamburgers, Coffee, Vitamins, Television, Teamwork, stuff like that you can commonly hear KR speakers use which can be jarring to some people.

[nocturne vale]

In Romanian we go to the extent of using words such as Feedback or Brainstorm

[worthy needle]

There's also words in KR that may sound like English words but have completely native meaning.

[nocturne vale]

for example?

[worthy needle]

눈 means eyes in Korean but it's pronounced "Nun/No-on"

So it may sound like the English word for Noon.

[nocturne vale]

I'm sure there's plenty of examples like that in many languages

[worthy needle]

Yes, KR has a lot of them.

비 means rain/raining but it but it's pronounced "Bee/Bi" and can really sound like Bee, Pee, or any assortment of English words depending on how the speaker pronounces it.

허리 means your waist/waistline but it's pronounced "Heo-ri" and can really sound like the word Hoodie.

Just a couple examples but there's plenty of them with KR that I've had English speaking friends get confused at.

[gritty flower]

Hong Kong Cantonese has tons of English loan words

[nocturne vale]

I'm trying to remember a word that sounds and looks the same in Romanian/English but have opposite meanings

[gritty flower]

Mainland Mandarin has very few

[worthy needle]

Thank you for the CN lesson of the day Blood.

I have like only the most superficial knowledge of CN because we have a lot of Sino-KR words.

[gritty flower]

My favorite false cognate is probably "gift" which means "poison" in German

[nocturne vale]

please don't bean me for that, but "cum" literally means "how" in Romanian

And we use it often

and the pronounciation isn't much better

[gritty flower]

There's "slut" in Swedish

[worthy needle]

Another thing that doesn't translate well is the grammar structure between Korean and English.

[nocturne vale]

I think that goes to most of the languages of that region

[worthy needle]

Korean is very contextual.

The way you speak to someone who is higher in societal status/position, a friend, or a younger individual can change how you word your sentence entirely.

Honorifics are very important in regular conversations.

[nocturne vale]

There's an old saying in Romanian: "A-și aprinde paie-n cap" (to light straws on your head on fire) which means to create your own problems

[worthy needle]

Korean is also kind of a gendered language.

The way you use honorifics depends on your gender and the gender/age of the person you're addressing.

오빠 and 형 both mean older brother. The first, oppa, is used by women addressing an older male. The second, hyung/hyeong, is when a male is addressing an older male. Regardless of if you're related by blood or not you address others like this.

Which is also why we have our Korean age which heavily influences this but that's besides the point

[nocturne vale]

We have something similar called ”pronouns of politeness” which are used to refer to people of a higher social status. They actually tend to be long words

Like, the longest one is ”dumneavoastră”

And because of that we actually shorten it to ”dvs.”

but pronounce the same way

[worthy needle]

The reason Korean age is so relevant for daily conversation is because it's a jarring transition from calling your friend by their name to having to address them (if you want to be correct in polite conversation) by the associated honorific.

But yea that gets into the semantics of how to address people and isn't too relevant.

[nocturne vale]

I imagine i would get a lot of weird looks because of that

[magic isle]

I learned German for a while and found it very difficult
It’s all memorization after all

Learning vocabulary in new languages is suffering for the same reason, just gotta memorize vocabulary

[magic isle]

Surely this is related to something like “vosotros” in Spanish(?)
Moldovan/Romanian being a Latinate language

Is the first part from “domine” or something like that?

[gritty flower]

An important thing to realize is that grammatical gender has nothing to do with social gender in people.

I almost wish we didn't use the word gender or the terms masculine feminine and neuter for them. Because they are really not connected the vast majority of the time. They're just incidental

There are some languages that have as many as six grammatical genders

And because of the term, it leads us to want to lean on the concept of social gender, to try to get something out of the idea that a bridge or a chair has anything to do with a man or a woman, and it's a pitfall. You have to learn grammatical gender as a concept unique to itself

[sullen garden]

Whenever this is discussed, I'm reminded of my high school art teacher and how he'd reprimanded one of my classmates over incorrectly using grammatical gender in a woke way--in this case referring to the Pharaoh, Hatshepsut; it's a common thing people fall for and schools often don't help make that separation.

[worthy needle]

[magic isle]

Bantu languages of Africa have like 12-15? “genders”

They’re called noun classes though

but yeah certainly at that point the whole connection with gender kinda falls apart

[magic isle]

Too low a guess, it’s 19

[restive sky]

Hi

I speak emote

[shadow ice]

Hello

I speak food

🍔

[storm cargo]

hi

[versed pilot]

isn't that just kinda japanese

[upbeat barn]

japanese and korean language is really close. So yeah lot of similar stuff between those 2 language.

[gritty flower]

They are culturally and historically related but not genetically

[nocturne vale]

Someone mentioned Anki for learning japanese. Is it good?

[sage helm]

it's just a tool to help memorization

it's good at what it does, but you won't get far in learning a language just by memorizing stuff

[worthy needle]

This pretty much, although all three languages aren't mutually intelligible.

I'm not too sure about how Japanese deals with honorifics in daily conversation.

So

The issue is

Korean is very hierarchical regardless of your familiarity with people.

I say honorifics but it's more complicated because the way you structure your sentence and the way you describe things such as yourself, the person/thing you're addressing, etc.

There's different suffixes or words you use depending on the level of respect/politeness you're using.

저 (jeo) and 나 (na) are a very basic way to go about this. Both of these words mean I. The first is the formal way you address yourself while the second is the more casual/informal way.

[gritty flower]

Japanese also has different pronouns and grammatical structures for different levels of politeness. But they're not etymologically related to the Korean ones

Usually the easiest way to see if a language is genetically related is to look at vocabulary describing "basic" nouns. The kinds of things every human needs to talk about. Words for things like "home" "food" "sister" "brother" "water" and such. In English, these all sound similar to words in German and Dutch, showing us English is Germanic language. The words for these things in Korean and Japanese are wildly different

[worthy needle]

물 (mul/mur depending on dialect) is Water in Korean.

The dialects of Korean I understand are the Gyeonggi and Chungcheong ones so anything outside that I have zero clue.

I don't know for example how the people near Busan or Ulsan would pronounce words but generally speaking Korean is consistent.

I say this because Busan and Ulsan are closer to Japan so they might be more influenced by it than the Central dialects.

But yea I see what you mean Blood

[nocturne vale]

Romanian has 4 main dialects, those being Daco romanian, Aromanian, Megleno romanian and Istro romanian, the most popular one being the first. As a daco romanian speaker, seeing and hearing other dialects surprised me a lot

They looked so different, yet i could still get the idea of sentences

[worthy needle]

The dialects of Korean obviously differ between North and South Korea but in South Korea they’re broadly divided by provinces/regions.

The Gyeonggi dialect is considered the standard/baseline of Korean.

It’s the one you usually hear in most TV shows or news.

With the Chungcheong dialect we pronounce Korean more methodically, or I suppose a bit slower. There’s also minor differences in postpositions and words but it’s pretty similar to Gyeonggi.

[nocturne vale]

Found this map of the dialects

Istro and Megleno are considered "dying" dialects

Also i find it hilarious how Romanian is the second largest ethnicity in Italy

I mean i've even had classmates moving there

[worthy needle]

Oh yea

Jeju dialect actually does take direct Japanese influences.

Don’t ask me how though I have zero clue what a Jeju speaker says because it’s drastically different from standard Korean.

If any part of Korean had similarities to the Japanese language it would be Jeju-do because it is also an island somewhat close to Japan.

[nocturne vale]

idk why i've had South Korea and Japan swapped in my head

[oblique otter]

I believe iirc all 3 (Chinese, Japanese, and Korean) have their own language families, but Korean and Japanese both borrowed Chinese characters at some point making them similar in some cases but still very different

[worthy needle]

Korean used Hanja for a long time and we still use it in certain circumstances (hanja being the Chinese characters used in Korea). A lot of Sino-Korean is borrowed from Chinese although the pronunciation is usually more in line with Korean than it is the original Chinese. I'm not so sure about Japanese but that's my understanding.

Korean technically uses something like 50-60% words borrowed or based from Chinese ones but that gets into the whole minutia of Sino-Korean v native Korean.

I'm not too well versed in the etymology of Korean words originating from China/Japan.

[magic isle]

it certainly feels like korean uses more chinese ("sino-xenic") based words than japanese

but I don't actually know if statistically that is true

[quick tendon]

upload youtube video where i try to pronounce op names like shamare and saileach
less than a week later this channel is added

[restive sky]

Inventor of linguistic hub

Cannot pronounce op names so an entire channel is made to help you

[quick tendon]

maybe i will do more voiced videos in the future

2k subs special will be entirely in chinese

[restive sky]

[thick pasture]

I love hurting people with sye leech

[gritty flower]

what's youtube

[restive sky]

It’s EN bilibili

[magic isle]

Shamare is easy isn’t it
Just read it like Japanese

[shadow ice]

Sham-air

Or sham-arey

Idk which

[magic isle]

Sha-ma-re

[devout gorge]

I listened to Pinus Sylvestris ops (JP voice) and when they refer to Ashlock, they say her name very differently, something like Kai-chan (Flametail add to squad voice line, for example). Does anyone know the exact name they say and what it probably means?

[magic isle]

Do you have a sound file link?

I found out only recently that they refer to Fartooth as enga instead of, well, Fartooth

[devout gorge]

https://aceship.github.io/AN-EN-Tags/etc/voice/char_420_flamtl/CN_017.mp3 Flametail

https://aceship.github.io/AN-EN-Tags/etc/voice/char_430_fartth/CN_002.mp3 Fartooth

https://aceship.github.io/AN-EN-Tags/etc/voice/char_496_wildmn/CN_010.mp3 Wildmane

[quick tendon]

i heard shamare was supposed to be pronounced like "amare" in italian

i never follow the pronunciations from in-game voicelines

[gritty flower]

It's 灰. It means Ash

Ash-chan. i.e. Ashley

[gritty flower]

遠牙, it means "far" and "tooth" i.e. Fartooth

[magic isle]

yeah, I know

I just expected them to read it as fartooth even if they've written it that way

[dry saddle]

They actually use both readings in JP.
Not sure but I think the pattern is ファートゥース ("Fartooth") as the operator codename, and 遠牙騎士 ("Enga-kishi") as the knight title.
The same applies for all 4 of them as far as codenames and knight titles go.

for reference:

焔尾騎士 ("Enbi-kishi") = Flametail Knight
野鬃騎士 ("Yasou-kishi") = Wild Mane Knight
灰毫騎士 ("Kaigou-kishi") = Ashlock Knight
远牙騎士 ("Enga-kishi") = Fartooth Knight

also, hi

One notable exception would be in how they familiarly call each other. Only Ashlock is called "Kai" or "Kai-chan", but the other 3 are called by their first names.

[lucid jackal]

Hey guys, could you please help me to understand the meaning of the following kanji in Saga speach: 拙僧

[zenith matrix]

This is the definition Jisho has listed, which is in line with Saga's character

[lucid jackal]

Thank you!

[gritty flower]

It's a rare pronoun associated with monks

[devout gorge]

Hello, I was listening to ops voicelines again and Myrtle in her recruitment line and one of her other line refers to herself as Tenminka (if I heard it properly). It is "myrtle" in translation, correct?

[magic isle]

Tenninka

But yes, the actual plant

[oblique otter]

I remember looking this up when I was explaining a comic to someone

[upbeat barn]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/692277341237411851/988152900792492042/unknown.png

in situation like this, how can people know the correct one?

for context
祝你马上 (nian2qing1). wish you young forever.

the sentence is weird, but it is a play word/pun for horse year. 马 is horse, 马上 is hurry/quick (but it has horse character).

sometimes it is obvious with very clear distinguishable meaning. But this time, the meaning is really close.

[Solved]

[bleak vapor]

Is that even a phrase

Welp at least I am chinese and we dont use it

[upbeat barn]

it is from podcast, im not really sure how natural it is. even without context, how to know which character for which situation ?

[bleak vapor]

Oh the picture hmmm

We just dont use 2nd one

[upbeat barn]

interesting

[bleak vapor]

Or more like

Descrbing those who are 10 - 20+ ages

Like you cant say a person who is like 30 + looks youthful

But you can say they look young

[upbeat barn]

it is really similar to the answer from another source. thanks

[thick pasture]

Yeah the sentence itself is just weird, even in english you don't wish someone to "be young faster"?
It wouldn't make that great of a pun as well since "上" blocks the flow, outside of the sentence itself being weird.

[nocturne vale]

"Be young faster" is something i would see in a surreal meme

[gray estuary]

に always followed by 行く right?

like, 学校に行く (going to the school)

[upbeat barn]

yeah the sentence itself is weird, they are forcing pun.

[upbeat barn]

No, not always, but you can add 行く after に。

from what i know に is target particle. You can swap 行く to any verb depend on context.

After に you can add more information to the sentence, maybe some object and object particle.
Or if there are no extra information, you just add verb.

[gray estuary]

oh--right

[magic isle]

what language/dialect is Dusk's second CN voice option?

[gritty flower]

It's a Wu language. Suzhou, I believe

[magic isle]

are there any other ops so far that have a second voice option like that?

[upbeat barn]

I need help, what is -서도 ?

found it in one of example
혼자서도 되겠어요?
= Do you think you could handle it on your own?

혼자 is alone
서도 ???
되 or 되다 can mean "able", or "can"
겠어요 is formal ending, usually related to intention, thought

like if you remove 서도, the translated part still make sense.

[worthy needle]

So what context is this being used in

[magic isle]

“Even” in this case

More literally “even if you’re alone, could you do it?”

[worthy needle]

Sounds about right

[magic isle]

How fluent are you in KR juno?

My spelling is truly horrible
But at least I can read/understand OK still

[worthy needle]

My hangul is pretty shit but my vocabulary in KR is fairly good given I speak it at home and with other KAs.

All I remember is that

도 is a fairly flexible particle

[magic isle]

It’s pretty close to JP -mo isn’t it
Even in alternative uses

[worthy needle]

Probably?

I'm not fluent with JP so I'm not sure.

[magic isle]

A lot of JP and KR is word for word translatable which is convenient

I have to remember Korean hanja-eo by backtranslating it from JP

[worthy needle]

I mean

A lot of Sino-Korean crosses over too

[magic isle]

Yeah for sure

[worthy needle]

The biggest difference I've seen between Sino-Korean and CN is pronounciation

[magic isle]

Though

Mandarin went off into fairyland in terms of pronunciation compared to Middle Chinese

[worthy needle]

Ye

[magic isle]

But Japanese and Korean diverged too

Like uhh let’s take “sun” right

Modern Korean taeyang and Japanese taiyou

The Middle Chinese was probably something like taiyang
Korean borrowed it as taiyang
Japanese as taiyau

Then tai became tae in Korean and yau became you in Japanese

Which is how we ended up here

[worthy needle]

Although pretty sure people only use taeyang in more

professional uses.

The native korean should be Hae from what I remember

That's the big thing with Sino-Korean v Native

Sino-Korean is usually just used for more professional usage while native KR is used for every day conversation

[magic isle]

Same dichotomy as helio- and sun in English

[worthy needle]

Ye, essentially.

[magic isle]

Also solus/-ar

Because we robbed both Greek and Latin

[worthy needle]

It all comes down to languages borrowing then gradually incorporating other languages.

[magic isle]

[worthy needle]

KR uses a lot of English loanwards too.

[magic isle]

Also did you know how we got ssang jamo in Korean

[worthy needle]

[magic isle]

Apparently Middle Korean had s-consonant clusters

Like dream was skum

Then became kkum

Which, skum sounds so funny to me

[worthy needle]

I mean

It is

[magic isle]

Oh I don’t have Korean IME on this phone

Skot and stuff too

[worthy needle]

A lot of KR sounds either funny or offensive in English.

[magic isle]

It doesn’t help when Japanese uses “seki” as a syllable often

[worthy needle]

God

[magic isle]

[worthy needle]

I'll never get over that

Because if you said that in KR you'd offend someone

[magic isle]

My parents thought it was the funniest thing because oil in jp is sekiyu

And there was a commercial on while we were visiting

[worthy needle]

I'd probably have a good laugh to.

@magic isle It's like salsa v seolsa

Salsa obviously being a dip v Seolsa which is KR for diarrhea or the runs.

It's funny to think back on things like this especially when you're younger and have less fluency in other languages because you can misinterpret what someone is saying entirely.

[magic isle]

[worthy needle]

@magic isle Which region of KR is your family from

Because I know dialect can really drastic between further regions

[upbeat barn]

late reply, but if 도 is like usual 도 inclusive particle and works like japanese mo (も), then what is the 서 part ? when im trying to search it, it end up with verb or adverb ending to connect stuff. Is it same with that 서 ?
@magic isle

[upbeat barn]

are these 2 basically same? 혼자서도 and 一人でも

[magic isle]

I literally didn’t see your second message and was about to type out that -seodo is like -demo

So, yes

[magic isle]

Just capital area
Raised in daejeon
Dad’s dad has a very pronounced gyeongsangdo-saturi though

Like his speech is tonal lol

My parents are both Kimhae-Kim (so I am too)

[upbeat barn]

alright thanks a lot

[worthy needle]

My family is from all over Korea.

Gyeonggi-do, Jeollabok-do, and Chungcheongbuk-do

So I have a general understanding of the Gyeonggi, Chungcheong, and Jeolla dialects.

I mean Gyeonggi is standard Korean so everyone knows that.

Jeju is the most different dialect out of all the Korean dialects and you can barely interpret some of the things they say.

[worthy needle]

I forgot what mother was but my father is a Cheongpung Kim

So yea I inherit that from him.

Since it's paternal v maternal.

[upbeat barn]

what is the difference ? pretty sure i use 好像 more than 好象

[bleak vapor]

I don't recall the second one exist

[upbeat barn]

is it like pun or something ?

[bleak vapor]

Not sure, but we just don't use it

Usually exist because you had a typo

[upbeat barn]

alright thanks

[bleak vapor]

[upbeat barn]

祝你们这行的人好像都很忙
(seems like people in these kinds of business are very busy)
how natural this sentence ? i just listen to it, check dictionary and write it based on my knowledge, im not sure for 祝你们 part.
usually i use 祝 for giving some wish to someone. like happy birthday or something. Sounds like zhu, zou, chou. but other translation seems wrong.

[bleak vapor]

that is wrong

Don't use 祝

Use 好像

祝 is more like hope

And yes, for 祝 we pronounce as zhu

[upbeat barn]

i mean like i listen some sentence from podcast

there should be a correct character in 祝 place but i heard it wrong and didnt recognize it

something sounds like those zhu, zhou, chou, zhe ?

[bleak vapor]

I don't think so

Or sent the sentence podcast

[bleak vapor]

Or is it zuo

🤔

Because it will make sense if is zuo

[upbeat barn]

which zuo ?

[bleak vapor]

做, doing

[upbeat barn]

it can sounds like zuo

[bleak vapor]

You people working in this kind of business seems busy

I mean you said something sounded like z or c

I am assuming it's 做 because it's the most relevant one

[upbeat barn]

ig that is the correct one. thanks.

i cant really send the sentence in podcast. The podcast doesn't have dialogue or subtitles anywhere, so i just rely on my knowledge and what i heard. Then write the whole conversation again.

[bleak vapor]

I see

gl learning Chinese

[upbeat barn]

there are 2 more...

but if you have something else to do, feel free to ignore my question

[bleak vapor]

I am Chinese so I believe I can help with the most

[upbeat barn]

我们去那边__那点儿酒__、边喝边聊
we can go there and have some drink, while we drink we can have a chat.

im not sure about the first section before comma especially that "那点儿酒" maybe use diffferent na or it isn't tianr. From what i heard, it is something like "na tianr ciu"

is 边 correct or it use another bian? usually it is 一边.... 一边.... but this time it omit the "一" part

[bleak vapor]

边 is correct

一边 is too formal

if you want to sound natural just use 边

and also那边那点儿酒 dont sound right

[upbeat barn]

im sure this part is correct 我们去那边..

[bleak vapor]

yes

[green rapids]

How would you translate: "там и там свои по своим же" to english

[nocturne vale]

Never heard anyone use this, but the way i understand it is "Everywhere, everyone is doing their thing"

Or perhaps "There and there"

[upbeat barn]

how to differentiate 做 and 作 from podcast if it is about doing some job ?

[thick pasture]

做 is "to do" something
作 usually refers to "making" something

[dreamy mango]

here pipi

[thick pasture]

hi hi hi

[dreamy mango]

So like I got it wrong but also right somehow, songseng-nim means teacher but can also be used with other professions

[thick pasture]

yeah i think it's the same as the sensei (teacher) sensei (doctor) thing in JP

[upbeat barn]

for professor or lecturer

[dreamy mango]

like Uisasongseng-nim which is the polite way of calling a doctor (since you don't call them purely uisa)

But there's like other ways of calling doctor and I was like damnnn that's so fun

Because it opens an opportunity for other operators to call doctor differently just like it happens with JP

[thick pasture]

WAAA

this is making me a bit too excited

[dreamy mango]

Can't say much about EN tho since I believe there's not many ways of calling Doctor without getting outside of this niche

Unless they go like "Master" or something which is kinda

Eyja and Hung might probably call him differently, depending on which dialogue

Hung calld doctor by doc

[thick pasture]

they don't even use master/boss for hung and aak's "danna"

[dreamy mango]

When JP he calls him by danna

YEAH

[thick pasture]

I HATE THAT!!!!!

JUST CALL HIM MASTER ITS FINE IT'S NOT AWKWARD

i think there might be another word for professor /senior for eyja to call doc in KR
i have a feeling arene would call doc by sonsaengnim (augh spelling) since arene calls doc by "teacher"

[upbeat barn]

maybe it will be like boss ? croissant also use danna

[thick pasture]

also personally i really never knew pakksa was doctor ... today i learn

[dreamy mango]

CN calls doctor by bossu or something, right?

YEAAAAAH

It sounds so mellifluous

[thick pasture]

hung?

[dreamy mango]

Oh no no

[thick pasture]

croi? :o

[dreamy mango]

In general

[thick pasture]

oh

[upbeat barn]

croissant cn use 老板 or boss

[thick pasture]

it's bo shi 博士

[dreamy mango]

Ohhh

Got it

[thick pasture]

not a medical doctor but uhhh scholar doctor

[dreamy mango]

Do they call Kal differently or..?

[thick pasture]

I can't confirm cause i havent read with my two eyes, but I think they address Kal with 医生 for medical doctor

um.. if there are characters that say it in audio records i can check but idk where to find it in the story so my words are unfounded

[upbeat barn]

warfarin use 医生 to address kaltsit

[dreamy mango]

o yeah yeah which reminds me that we need to get voice overs for story dialogue, unless that's a thing?

I'm not far on the story dats why

Ohhh

[thick pasture]

ohhhh

then yeah, people call kal Dr.Kaltsit the way you talk to a hospital doctor, but Dr. Doctor's "Dr." is an earned title... COOL

[upbeat barn]

amiya too use 医生

[thick pasture]

what a good and useful channel

[magic isle]

It’s literally the same characters

Baksa-nim always felt very uh “PhD”
Though again it’s the same as the original cn so

Ah man now I realize I always interpreted “doctor” in game as medical doctor

When it never was

[worthy needle]

I mean seonsang is just teacher and nim is always added when addressing someone formally and in a polite manner, so yea Uisaseonsangnim makes sense

The level of politeness can change how the person will view the speaker so yea, it can in turn make character dialogue more interesting as opposed to something like English where you call a Doctor just Doctor.

I need to go back over the KR voices to double check which operators say what and how they say it.

[dreamy mango]

Thanks for addressing it!!

[worthy needle]

Well isn't that what it means though?

I'm pretty sure Baksa is literally only used to refer to someone with a PhD

I don't think I've seen it used to reference someone with a Masters for example.

[magic isle]

Well I said that and then realized I had always misunderstood what “Doctor” meant in the English TL

[worthy needle]

Yea in English there isn't any specific differentiation when you use the term Doctor so it's hard to get the same kind of point across.

[magic isle]

Mhm

[worthy needle]

At that point you use an entirely different word related to their field of work.

[magic isle]

And uh “PhD! PhD!”

Would be ridiculous

[worthy needle]

Such as a Physician v Surgeon, Orthopedic Specialist, etc

[magic isle]

[worthy needle]

It's one of those things that doesn't translate the nuance well at all.

[magic isle]

Yeah

[worthy needle]

In the same way a lot of phrasing or sentence structure in English doesn't work vice versa.

It's just the difficulty of trying to accurately portray a translation while retaining the original meaning in a language that doesn't have a similar counterpart.

@magic isle Can you hear what Eyjafjalla is specifically saying when trying to pronounce professor cause it sounds off to me

[magic isle]

I can take a listen in a bit

Which specific voice line?

[worthy needle]

Just any of them.

[subtle plaza]

are you referring to "senpai"?

[upbeat barn]

yeah should be that. korean have seonbae, but english translation is professor when it should be something like senior or elder (?)

선배

[magic isle]

It’s definitely seonbae

[worthy needle]

Sounds about right

I'm not sure if Seonbae is the correct word to use in this case because it really depends on the context of the original CN which I have to double check

I guess if the context focuses more on the mentor-student kind of relationship then you could use Seonbae

[worthy needle]

Seonbae is used akin to how Japan uses Senpai, usually for either senior students or more veteran work colleagues, from my own knowledge.

Generally someone more senior to you but not senior enough to warrant another specific honorific.

[magic isle]

but juno the original japanese voice already used senpai everywhere

[worthy needle]

I know

[magic isle]

that's the whole point innit

they're just using the same diction they chose the first time

[worthy needle]

It just doesn't sound right to me with the EN words.

If I had the KR I could probably ease my mind

[magic isle]

I mean they could have used Senpai in the EN translation but they chose not to

[worthy needle]

There's two braincells fighting at the same time.

One that goes "Oh, yea they're in a senior-mentor relation so Seonbae works"

And the other is like "Wait a minute but he's specifically a Doctor with a PhD and also their professor/mentor, so how is that supposed to work?"

But yea based on the JP/CN it's probably senpai and whatever the CN equivalent is.

[upbeat barn]

cn use 前辈 qianbei, english should use senior if other 3 language use something like 先輩 or 선배

[bleak vapor]

tbh they just use whatever sounds similar

[thick pasture]

hii guys I'm thinking of filling this meme out, can anyone tell me what "通关没他不行" means in the context of Arknights?

[upbeat barn]

im still learning chinese... so dont trust me right away and better wait native.
通关 = clear
没 = not
他 = he/she
不行 = no way or impossible

probably clearing the game without them is impossible... or cant clear the stage without them.

[bleak vapor]

It means the op you carry every stage to clear

[upbeat barn]

in a podcast, i heard a grandpa/old man call young man "huozi" (should mean young man) What is the character for huo? i assume zi is 子.

nvm found it 小伙子

[bleak vapor]

[upbeat barn]

im back with question... need some help for this de biao part. The context is about reimbursement regulation.

提供发票。de biao 注意那标准发票、小票不可以报。
Provide receipt. ??? make sure it is official receipt, you can't submit small receipt/non official.

i have no clue because even if i remove that "de biao" part it still make sense. I think it is like 特别 (Especially) but it sounds clearly de biao/ te piao/ similar variation.

[bleak vapor]

but 特别 it's te bie

If you could prove the source I might help better

[upbeat barn]

here is the clipped dialogue. It is from chinesepod, provide podcast to learn chinese and explain or translate the dialogue. But sometimes they skip some part.

in this case, it give clear explanation about
提供, 发票, 标准, 小票, 报. So im sure these words are correct.
for full dialogue, https://www.chinesepod.com/lesson/getting-reimbursed/36

[bleak vapor]

So yes you are right

Its 特别要

but they talked a little bit too fast so it sounded like 特biao

[upbeat barn]

owh... usually i hear it at 0.5 speed several time and it still sounds like 1 character sound in that speed.

thanks a lot

[upbeat barn]

learning this 줄 grammar...
사람이 많을 줄 알았어요
either mean.... i knew there will be lot of people (already know and actually lot of people here)
or... i thought there will be lot of people (initial assumption wrong, actually few or no one here)

is there an easy way to know the exact meaning ?

[magic isle]

it should be the first one: "I knew there would be many people here"

@worthy needle how would you express the opposite, personally?

I'd think something like "saram-i saenggak boda eobne"
wow sorry for romanized korean but no IME

[worthy needle]

That sounds right when I say it but I mean it depends on if you're expressing it as a statement or not

[upbeat barn]

the 2nd one has similar meaning with 같아요 form.

in some context 줄 could only have 1 meaning...
but based on the podcast, it is depend on the intonation. In some case you focus more on 알았어요 part and sometimes on 을 줄 but it is still really hard for beginner learner like me.

[magic isle]

oh, I guess I could see how you might interpret it the second way

I definitely thought of the first meaning first though

[thick pasture]

hihi can anyone tell me how "Seaborn" (the Arknights term) is written in Japanese?

[magic isle]

this is Skalter's summon, right?

"name": "スカジのシーボーン",

Skadi's Seaborn just in katakana

[upbeat barn]

yes

スカジのシーボーン
Su Ka Ji No Shi ~ Bo ~ N

の is similar to 's in english.

[thick pasture]

JUST IN KATA?? thought they would go for a kanji something... like chinese's "hai si"
anyway , ty!!

[upbeat barn]

gladiia talent have different term but translated to seaborn in aceship (i havent check in game), it is seaborn in game, but in enemies description, it is sea creature (not seaborn)

海の怪物
Umi no Kaibutsu
Sea monster

Gladiia talent use exactly same character. Skalter use that katakana

In en, gladiia talent use "seaborn". In enemies decription, it is "sea creature". For skalter, it is seaborn.

[thick pasture]

ah i see...! thank you

[upbeat barn]

i need help for this dao yuan
垃圾短信是挺 dao yuan 的。有时我还收到一条短信说你女儿病了、马上给她打一千块钱。
spam message is really annoying, one time i receive a message that said my daughter is sick, should transfer 1000 Dollars quickly.

that dao yuan should mean "to hate", but i can't find it in dictionary. Pinyin maybe wrong could be like tao/dao and yuan/yan.

nvm i found it... 讨厌 ..

[oblique otter]

o were you thinking tao3 yan4?

[upbeat barn]

i keep searching dao yuan and get wrong result. Some pinyin have similar sounds, some even weird or change the pinyin even if they have same character.

when i wrote that last part, i just realize i havent search taoyan.

[oblique otter]

it's also down to accents too

[upbeat barn]

yeah chinese is hard.

[nocturne vale]

What's the difference between these

[magic isle]

different orthographies

Bokmal is older, and shares a lot of orthography from Danish due to historical reasons

[nocturne vale]

So people nowadays use Nynorsk more?

[magic isle]

it's not quite that simple

depends on region for example

check out this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language#Bokmål_and_Nynorsk

[nocturne vale]

Since you're saying Bokmal has resemblance to Danish, i assume people in the south speak it more

[nocturne vale]

huh

[thick pasture]

this isn't a question but i'm so mad that i JUST figured out that 肉鸽 meant "roguelike" purely for phonetic reasons
because 肉 = rou 鸽 = ge

they arent actually talking about meat pigeons

no im back with question
Does anyone know what skalter's korean nickname is? Like how we call her skalter and cn calls her 红蒂.
I heard her being referred to as "sokadi" by a korean player, but I can't confirm or put it into words.

[upbeat barn]

with limited korean knowledge, i check ak kr youtube.

for skadi 스카디 or 서카디 seukadi/seokadi.
For skalter my knowledge isn't enough, but some use 커럽팅 스카디 korobting seukadi (corrupting skadi)

is there any AK kr group or discord? that will be a better place to collect information for operator nickname

[thick pasture]

ohh i see, the strong "seo" was what confused me. So with this I think he was just calling her "skadi" normally. Thank you!

[magic isle]

I can get back to you about this in a bit

[magic isle]

skadi is 스카디

which makes sense

and skalter is just

스카디 더 커럽팅 하트

[dry saddle]

is that just transliteration from english?

[magic isle]

yup

[upbeat barn]

i think the question is about nickname

스칼텔 (?)

[magic isle]

hm, I don't know about that

[thick pasture]

yeah i was confused with the first letter in skadi's name, totally forgetting that there probably isnt a "ska" in korean LOL

[magic isle]

nope
there was in middle korean though

[thick pasture]

middle korean :o

[magic isle]

ㄲ used to be pronounced [sk]

in middle korean times

now it's uh [k] but with "tenseness"

[thick pasture]

ouhhh

[magic isle]

hmmm it might be a bit more complicated as to how the [sk] was written
but it looks like late middle korean did have s consonant clusters that modern korean doesn't have

[upbeat barn]

why korean dont have this ?

top one maybe confusing in longer sentence. But bottom one seems make sense.

i forgot to add another line for ㅋ

[magic isle]

I get what you're trying to do, and well

the answer to that question is

wai don't wi spel laik this?

owr lijk thiss

spelling is artificial, language (and pronunciation) changes are constantly happening

for example

korean ㅐused to be pronounced very differently, like the english word "eye"

which is why it is ㅏ + ㅣ

then sound changes occurred to make it pronounced like "e" instead

ultimately writing systems are pretty arbitrary, and they tend to be resistant to change

arguably the current way of writing out 스카디 is "better" because it mirrors how it is pronounced

native koreans are generally not going to pronounce it like [sk] because korean doesn't allow consonant clusters like that anymore

they would add a vowel between to break up the cluster, hence 스카 instead of ㅅ카

[upbeat barn]

tbh phonetically consistent English maybe a good idea.

People will have easier time with different "ough". Also doesn't affect the writing at all.

but yeah that korean writing system is consistent with consonant vowel location in character block.

[magic isle]

oh I mean I agree that making english spelling more transparent would be a good thing

but I also think that you will not be able to convince people anytime soon to change it

and that's what I mean: spoken language will change whether someone wants it to or not

spelling on the other hand is very difficult to change

[upbeat barn]

that make sense

[magic isle]

it has happened before where some spellings have changed, right

I mean we don't spell words like "looke" anymore even though if you look at Chaucer you'll see those -e spellings

because back then there really was an -e sound at the end

but that progress is crazy slow

part of the reason why english spellings are so awful is because they were accurate for middle english times
but they haven't kept up with changes to english since then

like the -gh- in words like "night" or "knight" wasn't silent before

(and also "night" and "knight" weren't pronounced the same way)

also geez, I forgot to mention how unstable spelling is
these are all various spellings of "knyght" (knight) for example

reminds me of people who spell out "could of" when they mean "could've"

[oblique otter]

gotta love transliterations

similar to how Google in Chinese is "Valley Song" (谷歌)

[bleak vapor]

If there ain't a definition

Or the translation too long

It will become just like that

[upbeat barn]

it is one of exception for -(으/느)ㄴ 척 but im not really understand what it mean.
Can someone give some sesntence example ?

[magic isle]

The explanation is weird

Geuman-hada literally ends in hada

What are they trying to say

If you know -furi in Japanese then -cheok should behave in the same way (“pretend to (something)”)

Oh wait, what are they comparing -cheok to here? What’s in point 1?

[upbeat barn]

that part is trying to find the difference between 체 and 척. But mostly give more explanation about 척

First point said 척 can stand alone without 하다 as a clause.
Then give an example
모르는 척, 조용히 나갔어요.
(pretend to not know, went outside quitely)
i think this is quite clear with example when the past example usually use 척하다 like 공부한 척하지 마세요 (don't pretend that you studied)

.

i only found 振り together with 振り向く or 振り返る so this is new.

[magic isle]

It’s a suffix to verb stems

[upbeat barn]

Also im not sure what is the point for that number 2 when they said "usually 행덩하다 / 이야기하다" and give 0 example about this. Can i put 척 on the left of these words or not?

Also the spacing is different with 그만하다.

[oblique otter]

My friend in his Chinese class didn't know what Facebook was in Chinese, so he called it "非死不可"

[severe umbra]

How does one properly pronounce Kazimierz?

[magic isle]

That’s the IPA
Trying to transcribe it in English spelling pronunciation…

Kazhimyesh?

[upbeat barn]

maybe you can check nearl voiceline in aceship, im not sure if it is the proper pronounciation or not
EN https://aceship.github.io/AN-EN-Tags/etc/voice_en/char_148_nearl/CN_006.mp3
CN https://aceship.github.io/AN-EN-Tags/etc/voice_cn/char_148_nearl/CN_006.mp3
JP https://aceship.github.io/AN-EN-Tags/etc/voice/char_148_nearl/CN_006.mp3
KR https://aceship.github.io/AN-EN-Tags/etc/voice_kr/char_148_nearl/CN_006.mp3

[magic isle]

The English one is deffo wrong

Japanese/Korean ones are kinda close iirc

[severe umbra]

Unsurprising

[severe umbra]

After checking out the Wikipedia article for Polish phonetics I arrived at about this pronunciation as well

[magic isle]

Great

I want to say <rz> is a retroflex zh sound normally but devoiced to sh because it’s at the end of the word
But I haven’t studied much polish phonology

[magic isle]

I tried thinking of cheok + haedong-hada and cheok + iyagi-hada and both sound OK to me

[upbeat barn]

alright, thank you very much

[thick pasture]

Hmm this one might be a little bit funny, but can someone teach me about the term "seki" in korean?
I have been watching some animal videos that described baby birds or animals as "seki", but in my personal experience I only know "seki" as a vulgar word or a term to call children "brats" (yes i have been scolded a lot)
Is it a different or the same word, or am I just hearing it wrong again...?

[magic isle]

I mean the word is literally something like “spawn”

So e.g. for baby animals it’s the correct term

It’s like how the literal meaning of “bitch” is “female dog” which is then denigrating when used towards people

[thick pasture]

ohhh i see!! thank you
i am... spawn

[upbeat barn]

i need help
会议结束好 ting mei wei 同事写一份总结报告.
(after the meeting end, each colleagues write a summary report) (this translated part could be wrong)
have no idea which character fit and the podcast doesn't give an explanation or sentence translation. Anyone know what are these ting mei wei character ?

挺每位 maybe this... but im not sure.

[fresh current]

Could it be... 请每位...?

Something like "could everyone write a report"

[bleak vapor]

Uh yes like the answer above

Since it sounds familiar

[upbeat barn]

alright thanks

[oblique otter]

Also, to correct the sentence, I'm guessing it should be 后 not 好

[upbeat barn]

thanks for the correction. Seems like you are right and i just heard the podcast again.

重点的地方语气可以 cai 长一点 (for key point, you should use a little bit higher intonation)
Could be zai, cai, which character that fit the sentence ?

一点 tou 不夸张 (it is not exaggerated/excessive)
im not sure for this part, is it 都?

learning everyday and always appreciate any help, thanks everyone.

[fresh current]

Zai, 再

[fresh current]

Yes, but 都 is dou...?

[upbeat barn]

thank you. I just write what i heard and dont really know the difference between some sound. Like dou/tou, qu/chi/zhi, etc.

[oblique otter]

d's and t's should be p distinct, could be down to mic

or accent

[bleak vapor]

Yes its 都 dou

Unless 都 as du ( Ignore this its just another pronunciation)

[oblique otter]

Gotta love 多音字

[bleak vapor]