#help

1 messages · Page 709 of 1

raven ermine
#

Not much we can do about that, just focus or smth

iron dirge
#

Doesn't work even when I watch it over and over

coarse notch
#

are you playing talons or lamp

waxen dove
copper oracle
#

haruka has a hand right?

abstract mauve
#

i had to check. she doesnt seem to

#

wait. she might

coarse notch
copper oracle
#

🤔 decel and abjurer shared hands in is4 iirc i just dont remember in is5

gray mulch
#

I'm not seeing sash2 event in krooster's event tracker. Did I fuck up smth or

ancient current
#

she has one in is4 no

#

i forgot

abstract mauve
#

i remember silence2 gives hand. so im assuming haruka does

coarse notch
#

rumble, mystery, and buckler, your lamp is fucked beyond belief

copper oracle
#

same subclass so ya

waxen dove
#

abjurers have a hand

abstract mauve
#

hand of buckler ye it's in is5 as well

copper oracle
#

its 2026 how are we still handmixing bro 💀

coarse notch
#

wait its four hands and two books LOL

copper oracle
#

dawg this is why ur losing
handmixing bad

waxen dove
copper oracle
#

dont draft units that have hands outside of ur main hand?

coarse notch
#

when you use lamp you should only be using operators that correspond to one hand relic
maybe two if you really know what you're doing with drafting

waxen dove
raven ermine
copper oracle
plain hemlock
waxen dove
copper oracle
#

at the cost of not getting king relics Bnuuy

coarse notch
#

you give up squad development when you are forced to go wish fulfilled
are you shop robbing

waxen dove
copper oracle
#

each hand mean u need to waste another wish node, for not much power gain lol

copper oracle
raven ermine
#

You're slowing down your kings relics and skipping combats nodes, etc

waxen dove
copper oracle
#

????

abstract mauve
#

just wait for wang 🤫

copper oracle
#

what do u have then bruh omg

waxen dove
abstract mauve
#

so you dont have everything meta

plain hemlock
#

that's like 50% of the meta RedOmegaLul

waxen dove
#

i started this acc after wis

coarse notch
copper oracle
waxen dove
#

i got fucked in trag

gray mulch
coarse notch
#

or read the one by mei for vgg

copper oracle
#

stop calling it vgg bruh

abstract mauve
#

gvg. calling it vgg is fraud behavior

waxen dove
copper oracle
#

hes kinda expensive to build 😢

waxen dove
coarse notch
#

it just keeps getting worse

copper oracle
#

he is unironically m9 mod3 for is5 😇

waxen dove
iron dirge
copper oracle
#

damn alr 🔥

abstract mauve
#

hoshialter?? no

iron dirge
#

Ah who's the 25% then

abstract mauve
#

wang

waxen dove
#

Im so getting wisadel and trag this year bro

coarse notch
#

wang probably

iron dirge
coarse notch
#

ok but in all seriousness t1 amiya should be easy on d17 if you handmix like 2 hands

raven ermine
coarse notch
waxen dove
#

Ela my ahh

copper oracle
#

bro ela is broken

iron dirge
abstract mauve
#

hater behavior

raven ermine
coarse notch
#

are you doing 135

waxen dove
copper oracle
coarse notch
#

135 should make it pretty attainable

waxen dove
coarse notch
#

are you shop robbing

waxen dove
abstract mauve
#

robbing shop very crucial

iron dirge
raven ermine
#

and do you get the wish nodes afterward too

coarse notch
copper oracle
plain hemlock
abstract mauve
waxen dove
raven ermine
#

Are you grabbing chalice

gray mulch
coarse notch
#

are you getting all 112 ingots and getting chalice + toy

copper oracle
#

ela is op op

sly ermine
#

Hey, is it worth to reroll for the current banner target?

coarse notch
#

thats a massive problem and run ending

raven ermine
#

Well there's one issue

abstract mauve
#

then you robbing didnt help then

copper oracle
abstract mauve
#

literally robbing for 0 gain

coarse notch
#

you cannot leak a single chest when robbing shop unless you have knight lance pro

sly ermine
copper oracle
#

reroll for logos then

bleak crown
#

Why is RM-H5 to RM-H6 locked

sly ermine
#

Aye, thank you

sleek finch
#

if you dont value your time, you could have reroll for multiple of them 6* too

cinder stag
copper oracle
#

u unlock it by investing 100 ingots first

raven ermine
#

It is a thing, and pretty important too

coarse notch
#

very much a thing

abstract mauve
#

it's meta for is5 ye
and all IS but like is5 is more crucial ireneburg

cinder stag
bleak crown
plain hemlock
cinder stag
copper oracle
#

robbing is always good cos u get free relics Bnuuy

coarse notch
#

and important for is6 too
but yea is5 shop rob usually determines the fate of your run assuming average rng elsewhere

waxen dove
#

Even i read that much

safe tundra
#

erm

copper oracle
acoustic kindle
#

ideas on current banner ? logos/ascalon/thorns vs fiammetta/penance vs schwarz/eyjafjalla

raven ermine
#

Skip all

coarse notch
#

but yea, perfect the shop rob and bring two frds to amiya and it should be a free win

languid swallow
#

Thats why you rob him late

copper oracle
#

obv u robbed him...

cinder stag
waxen dove
#

No i want more shit

coarse notch
copper oracle
#

damn bro wants an easy target

languid swallow
#

Yes let me return and open shop to the person who robbed my shit ExeNaruhodo

bleak crown
#

The next RM-H5 to H6 locked so need to wait few more days?

languid swallow
#

Fib its ok, calm your elitist urges you can do it

plain hemlock
languid swallow
#

Each run is its own parallel universe 🤫

abstract mauve
#

i mean shop in IS2 isnt a bad idea either. the mode gives you fuck all for hope/deployment slots otherwise ireneburg

copper oracle
#

shop in is2 is good, it just literally has a negative spawn rate or smthing

abstract mauve
waxen dove
abstract mauve
#

natural selection

copper oracle
#

obv its cos cannot wants revenge so he allows u to fight again 🤫

waxen dove
plain hemlock
#

Darwin can't stop gaining more evidence 🚬

waxen dove
#

what to finish first? QOL is also kinda important for me

coarse notch
# copper oracle is4...

i was talking about is5 specifically where you shop twice and refresh the f6 shop if you already robbed
unless you're playing shop squad or something

short steppe
#

I have succesffuly E2'd Shamare and Tequila to put in my base SkadiDaijoubu

Anyone else I should pair with those two or just plop them in together

coarse notch
wispy ridge
#

hello is there any guide to speed run is5 for rewards?

raven ermine
waxen dove
short steppe
coarse notch
#

yea so just take your pick, not much of a difference if you're just farming for rewards

raven ermine
#

Yeah, tailoring > shamare > tequila

short steppe
raven ermine
#

Yes, basically bibeak needs to be in slot1

tulip inlet
#

Are any of these skins temporary like the Collab skins?

plain hemlock
short steppe
waxen dove
#

any idea when chapter 16 and how many Originite

severe crypt
waxen dove
coarse notch
# wispy ridge hello is there any guide to speed run is5 for rewards?

play support squad until you unlock blueprint squad
blueprint squad -> wisadel/gummy/click or indigo -> grab lamp of wishes from fated encounter node on floor 1-> overload mental burden to bring life points to 1, refresh every combat node (except shop node) into a wish fulfilled and grab the relevant hand/kings and whatever is good after -> unload thoughts before floor 5 boss -> oneshot fremont with wis -> repeat on d10 forever

severe crypt
waxen dove
short steppe
severe crypt
#

I think hermitzplanner would have the total op but there maybe other sources I’m not thinking of

coarse notch
#

it does, 43 op

severe crypt
#

Yeah that figure makes sense

coarse notch
#

no

#

if you happen to get a voucher in the shop for specialist then you can recruit whoever you want
your only goal is to promote wisadel, then you just win

raven ermine
# short steppe Is it a bug or just something else entirely?

It's not really a bug (well depend how you see it), just a lack of QOL
Basically tailoring ops ramp up over a few hours, if you shift ops in your trading post, and their order changes, they'll reset the ramp up time to zero

bibeak/kafka/diamante/paprika are basically the same and interchangeable
I would not e2 kafka tho, for gameplay reasons

wispy ridge
#

w for the win

coarse notch
#

f2 always has a scout node btw, so wisadel should always be e2ed by f3

short steppe
coarse notch
#

yea just use diamante and paprika

raven ermine
#

Yeah, ofc, if you have access to those, don't spend certs

short steppe
raven ermine
#

If you're using fia to reset tequila shamare, you want 2
If not, one is enough

short steppe
raven ermine
#

With mlynar in cc you can reset 3 ops

short steppe
#

I thought it was single use for fia

raven ermine
#

Yes, you alternate between proviso-shamare-tequila, if your timing is right, you should be able to permanently maintain them

#

It is single use, you wait for her to rest up, and you do it again on another unit

#

It's a bit restricting because you need to log in at specific times tho

short steppe
#

For Kafka- E1 is the desired level?

raven ermine
#

Yes, but base optimization is pretty much always higher gains for more inputs anyway
Like with gladiia for downtime for example

short steppe
coarse notch
raven ermine
crystal holly
#

is yu s3 better than s2 with tragodia?

coarse notch
#

hell no

crystal holly
#

o ok

coarse notch
#

kafka gameplay wants her at e0 for reduced dp cost

raven ermine
short steppe
frosty flame
#

Should I ever negotiate for orundum instead of lmd?

#

I tried to look stuff up online and it talks abt different tiers or whatev but I dont see any of that in the negotiations tab

short steppe
#

Im guessing I should replace the Gummy - Midnight - Catapult format and replace it with Kafka - Shamane - Tequila

My second format is SilverAsh - Jaye - Degenbrecher with Gnosis in the CC

raven ermine
frosty flame
#

Alrighty then

short steppe
#

Im going to assume I shouldn't change my second format SkadiDaijoubu

unless you have other ideas

raven ermine
#

If you have proviso, you should

#

One tp should be highest prod proviso, and the other one shamteq

short steppe
#

Here- let me get a picture SkadiDaijoubu

raven ermine
#

You don't need a second rotation if you're using fia
But in the offchance you mess up rotation, or don't want to bother with it, sure, just put your best tp team possible for shamare's downtime

short steppe
#

that is currently my setup for Trading posts

raven ermine
#

Tho i'm pretty sure degen is bad (someone correct me if i'm wrong) in kjerag's team

short steppe
severe crypt
#

She’s not terrible, but not the bis for Karlan

#

Swalter takes her place in the best Karlan team

raven ermine
#

Yeah actually i just checked the spreadsheet, she's decent, not as bad as i thought

short steppe
#

Im still building ops and rn SwireAlter is down in my priority list atm

raven ermine
#

My only issue with kjerag's tp is that it's using a cc slot, but if you don't have better things to put there, it's fine

frosty flame
#

Orienteering never has any sort of duplicate 6 star protection right?

severe crypt
#

I just e2ed swalter only for Karlan 🤫

short steppe
coral narwhal
#

does rebuilding mandate actually increase your character level and promote outside the game mode

coarse notch
#

no, that'd be op

ancient current
#

that would honestly be awful

raven ermine
short steppe
outer hazel
#

when can i go to get help in SN side story, its strategy right?

raven ermine
#

Just did, totter is pretty bad

short steppe
#

SkadiDaijoubu

Should I remove him from my list of ops to build

severe crypt
raven ermine
raven ermine
formal shadow
#

not terrible but merchant L + spec L

nova nest
#

What chapters / sidestories to play before Dossoles Holiday for story? Nothing?

formal shadow
#

you can just do DH right away

severe crypt
#

Just skip the story if you don’t wanna be spoiled

#

Not like the summertime beats storyline is crucial to main campaign

formal shadow
#

I guess like right after the lungmen arc it where it takes place storywise?

#

so you at least know who ch'en is SwireKek

nova nest
copper oracle
#

just play the events in release order if u care abt lore shit

severe crypt
formal shadow
abstract mauve
daring knot
#

I used the exceptional appointment to get efja alter but she isn’t appearing in my squad??

nova nest
severe crypt
formal shadow
short steppe
copper oracle
formal shadow
#

I forgor if I ever e2'd bibeak

copper oracle
#

e2 bibeak for cheeto bibeak permastun

formal shadow
#

RosThink I never tried it

abstract mauve
#

cheeto sash1 gnosis already perma freeze but no target cap

safe tundra
#

dorothy s2 irene s1 ahh comp

copper oracle
#

3 slots ‼️

raven ermine
# short steppe Kafka it is then lol

If you're planning to e2, might as well wait for paprika or diamante
tho paprika is +7 tp in cc slot, so it depends if you have alternatives or not

copper oracle
raven ermine
#

Using e0 tailoring for now is not really the worst thing

formal shadow
#

but that'd mean giving bibeak masteries SkadiDaijoubu

cinder terrace
#

I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure about my next upgrade priorities and wondering if I could get any generic advice if anyone has free time, I'm currently working on trust for Logos to upgrade his module but besides that any other priorities jumping out?

https://www.krooster.com/u/fzero

Fzero#2631 - EN - Level 79 - 2026-02-05

copper oracle
#

u dont have bibeak masteries wrfart 💔

formal shadow
#

no because I never use her

copper oracle
#

time to start building ur ops

subtle dawn
#

Is it worth it to use sanity on LMD stages?

formal shadow
#

you're right. On my way to Shaw s2m3 SoraWow

raven ermine
copper oracle
#

i have shaw s2 and it sux

formal shadow
#

that's why I did shaw s1m3 first

short steppe
#

Is it possible to share Goals in Krooster- or when I send my account?

raven ermine
#

You mean your planner ?

short steppe
#

indeed

raven ermine
#

Idt that's possible
You can screenshot the right side i suppose

rain forge
short steppe
rain forge
short steppe
rain forge
#

for all we know everyone there could be e2 max m9/6 mod3

short steppe
#

Ill just do the 6 stars cause the 5-3 stars are basically just for base purposes

rain forge
#

there arent any 5* ops there FiaDed

short steppe
rain forge
copper oracle
chrome epoch
#

is mon3tr s2m3 worth

winter crystal
short steppe
raven ermine
winter crystal
raven ermine
#

Stop at level 60 for most of those, you'll go to 90 when you're done with raising everything

short steppe
raven ermine
#

Ig she's not used anymore yeah
Used her a lot in RAcc tho

short steppe
gray mulch
winter crystal
#

Base, also can stun

copper oracle
raven ermine
copper oracle
#

🧑‍💻

short steppe
winter crystal
copper oracle
#

wang s2 is 100% slow 🗣️

raven ermine
raven ermine
winter crystal
short steppe
wild cedar
#

We’d still suggest leave out the 60-90 part for all your op

native cargo
#

Is it still possible to have krooster dupe

slate ridge
#

depends

native cargo
#

How

gray mulch
slate ridge
#

have to wait for duplication bug to come back

vale rampart
#

also i forgot to ask what team can I build with the operators i have to clear story stages ?

slate ridge
#

tho the last duplication was Mumu release ?
or was it IS6 usual skin change

winter crystal
wild cedar
#

Or go to pins Roadless Camelot and find team building guide

dark brook
#

why the improved witchcraft altar doesnt teleport enemy when they walk past it

slate ridge
#

because you cant get there without stairs

wild cedar
#

Is it the yu teleport code

slate ridge
#

pretty much every pathing works the same

#

theres no path from teleporter to Ulpi

dark brook
#

okae

short steppe
raven ermine
#

Mod2 is the level

short steppe
#

Im updating my Krooster now- do you mean mod- ah

#

Why not level three?

vagrant locust
#

Im guessing these will open in 2 days?

odd sky
#

bad value BagThumbsUp

raven ermine
# short steppe Why not level three?

Modblocks are an heavily timegated ressource, so you avoid spending more than you need to
Surtr module has the most of the upgrade unlocked between mod lv1-2, mod3 being wasteful in comparison

short steppe
obtuse obsidian
#

Lots of module get much smaller upgrade from 2 to 3

Just like how leveling from 60 to 90 aint worth it

raven ermine
#

well it won't ever be worse, the module lv3 will make her slightly better
It's just too expensive for the small increase you'd get

short steppe
cobalt hemlock
#

i need a moderator

undone portal
#

nowhere near as interesting as s2 im afraid. status res would be cool if she could have it for more than 12sec
if i wanted a defender with a 15sp def.rec skill for maintaining personal survivability i would just bring hung and get a team healer out of it PodencoSip

short steppe
hexed adder
severe crypt
#

Well rechords here I think

cobalt hemlock
#

okay word

short steppe
#

He typically is lurking in the background

severe crypt
#

Maybe? Just ping him or smth

cobalt hemlock
#

who the fuck is rechords

raven ermine
#

The man you seek

undone portal
#

i just pinged him myself so surely BreezeHappy

short steppe
#

SkadiDaijoubu

A moderator

obtuse obsidian
#

The mod who mod the idiots around here

severe crypt
#

Or light

cobalt hemlock
ancient current
nimble kite
#

I mean, you can just DM. Even better to admins directly, if something fishy happens.

raven ermine
cobalt hemlock
obtuse obsidian
#

Also is module are cheap

short steppe
turbid ocean
obtuse obsidian
#

It take 1 module block per level

Unlike normal module that take 4 per level and extra mats

nimble kite
raven ermine
#

tf would you need the admin for

severe crypt
#

Bro wants to be the next puffy

short steppe
#

What skill mastery for him? Mizuki

obtuse obsidian
#

Only s2 m3 tbh

nimble kite
#

It was about Ulpianus banner matter.

#

But moving on, nothing help related, really.

short steppe
#

Holy- the amount of resources ill need is actually crazy SkadiDaijoubu

raven ermine
#

Eh ChenShrug

short steppe
#

So- ugh . . . Yeah am I cooked with all these resources LappDumb

Is the best way to get these going through reward passes in IS and events when they come around

raven ermine
#

Tbf it's not that much, you'll get used to it
Just prio what you raise correctly, and yes, plan ahead with the 6 month gap from CN on what you should farm on each event
If you didn't clear IS rewards, those will cover a big part of those expenses

#

Click "craft" on each t4/t5 mat, because what you're really farming are the t3s

hybrid halo
#

what's this?

short steppe
raven ermine
#

This icon mean this skalter is m9

short steppe
hybrid halo
#

wow thanks

short steppe
raven ermine
#

A majority
And farming all IS ressources will take you quite a long time, don't burn yourself out on it

short steppe
raven ermine
#

My not up to date planner for example

earnest sparrow
#

hello. how did efficient stages get decided in #bot-spam /materials ? is it empirical?

ionic bramble
#

worth raising if im in need of a medic?

ancient current
severe crypt
short steppe
# raven ermine My not up to date planner for example

Let me guess;

  • Base ops priority; for greater return in the base
  • Meta Ops; i.e., Wis'adel - Mylnar - Logos - Shikio - Ines
    • SAalter - I already saved for his lvl up so he'll be E2 lvl 90 when I get him
  • Casual use ops; Surtr - Ceobe - Mizuki - Ela - Golden glow

Something like that?

severe crypt
#

Surely you don’t only have ansel as your possible best medic

ancient current
ionic bramble
opal tundra
#

What’s the best arts dealers and medic I feel like I’m missing those as the only main units along with a sniper but I got those covered

raven ermine
#

Also sanity calcs take into account byproducts, for t2 rocks for example

severe crypt
short steppe
ancient current
#

against high arts pressure, yes

short steppe
#

Wis'adel remains as the best sniper

#

Arts damage- im not sure on that front sadly

opal tundra
#

Idk I just came back from hiatus

ancient current
#

though it would help more to see your roster

raven ermine
opal tundra
short steppe
trim garnet
#

on april paid selector whats the latest operator? will there be a haruka on it?

ancient current
# opal tundra

that was... a long hiatus indeed
you can keep using who you have, and aim for banner priorities in pins

ancient current
#

and no, no haruka

opal tundra
#

Are they not good also where tier list

trim garnet
raven ermine
ancient current
ancient current
short steppe
opal tundra
#

Can I get a good sample team so I have something to base it off of

earnest sparrow
#

wang when btw?

short steppe
ancient current
short steppe
#

@raven ermine how do I set up the groups like you did; still new to Krooster

earnest sparrow
# short steppe approx. 4 months

then is it better to not pull on next banners until wang? because I've got only 110 pulls right now and I don't think it will be possible to save as many for wang if I pull for s alter

frail thunder
#

Is ascalon s1m2 to m3 any significant increase?

ancient current
short steppe
severe crypt
#

Salter is NOT replacing Ines

raven ermine
#

Then you can move things around

short steppe
ancient current
opal tundra
#

Ok I’ll do in when not driving

severe crypt
#

You were driving bro

raven ermine
#

Like buddy that's not good

signal swan
#

Event question. Cursed Bloodgrounds says it can combine with some kind of object I do not recognize to become Impact Fence. The object does not appear to be any of the available modules. How do I upgrade Cursed Bloodground?

abstract mauve
coarse tide
#

Can i tell u not to use it

abstract mauve
#

first time hearing of it so seems like a fair thing to say

short steppe
frail thunder
abstract mauve
frail thunder
#

Sometimes I’m just lazy to manually click Bnuuy

short steppe
bold trout
#

Does Tragodia need another Nervous Impairment unit or can he just go ham by himself?

ancient current
#

he works by himself

coarse tide
#

He works with his own stupid catMudrockNaruhodo

ancient current
waxen dove
#

stupid question but can someone defeat is5 ed5 with reserve ops only? guided tour difficulty

bleak wave
#

Is the is3 welfare better than hummus?

coarse notch
#

guided tour is is6

waxen dove
coarse notch
#

probably not, you dont have a frd or the damage

waxen dove
short steppe
#

Aight- look better @raven ermine ?

coarse notch
#

well yea, ed1-4 have been beaten with 0 ops

waxen dove
#

hm
alr tx

coarse notch
#

they just leak the boss
ed5 is a guaranteed loss no matter your life points if you dont kill the boss

coarse notch
bleak wave
coarse notch
#

highmore isnt really worth the investment for general content

raven ermine
short steppe
waxen dove
bleak wave
coarse notch
#

they're about the same, highmore might have a slight edge due to having a higher atk stat from being a higher rarity

tired pewter
#

she also gets double attack on s1 where humus only gets a single hit

abstract mauve
#

humus also has higher dph and a barrier that lets him survive the episode 10 cannon

sleek finch
#

when you take stages in consideration, disregard investment cost
humus scale up far better until chapter 10+ since he can actually tanks thing

abstract mauve
#

i'd personally just say that humus is better ireneburg

bleak wave
#

Thanks

#

Realistically i need neither coz i have entelechia but i do like knowing why stuff works so i appreciate the explanation

#

~~Also they're all pretty so they will all get leveled at some point ~~

boreal steeple
#

Humus is goated, i can confirm after rebuilding mandate

slate ridge
#

at that point wouldnt you just use Entel tho since shes guaranteed RedOmegaLul

short steppe
#

When did Ines get a module- SkadiDaijoubu

I just found out she has one . . .

twin dawn
#

are there any AoE casters with an offensive recovery skill?

severe crypt
twin dawn
short steppe
coarse notch
#

just use marcille s2 then convert the outpost after she channels it twice

severe crypt
#

Yeah only Marcille seems the best option from that subclass

severe crypt
waxen dove
#

wtf will happen no

coarse notch
#

thats ed4

boreal steeple
coarse notch
#

illusions in the sand is about to crater your head in if you take the encounter there

#

dont buy horizon invitation unless you're going for ed4

bitter hornet
#

if i use fia and logos in rm, i should to bring archive for their outpost?

short steppe
#

Aside from these operators; considering they'll be finished today

Are there other good base ops I should build or look into later down the road- or are these serviceable for awhile

@raven ermine

bold trout
#

Eyja1 s2 is main skill right?

atomic pecan
#

How should I build ulpianus, hoshi alter, and Saki. Which ones do I need to unlock module and should i mastery any of their skills

ancient current
#

s3m3, s3m3, s3m3 mod2+

severe crypt
boreal steeple
neat spear
#

Does Mon3tr hav 2 personalities or what

urban sleet
untold snow
#

Wat does the sui body thing give?

twilit owl
#

ed2

silver smelt
#

defeating it allows u to do ed2

untold snow
#

Uhhh ed2 SkadiDaijoubu ?

silver smelt
#

ending 2

untold snow
#

Should i do it. I did it before once

urban sleet
silver smelt
#

i forgot ,does the sui foot do the successive stomps in regular stages?

untold snow
#

I remember it does but should i do it again

sleek estuary
#

Why must your module need to be stuck?

untold snow
silver smelt
#

do you haev the unit yourself?

scarlet rampart
#

I already had sakiko togawa when should i do another gacha?

sleek estuary
#

I dont have her. Arent the units supposed to unlock the module once they reach lv 40-50-60?

urban sleet
willow thorn
#

Hi. How Defense shred is calculated in the game?

untold snow
#

Sooo should i do ending 2?

urban sleet
wispy summit
#

false

urban sleet
#

Is this for bellone LappDumb

untold snow
#

Should i do ending 2 😞 is6

willow thorn
#

Do 2 % shreds stack?

urban sleet
#

Yeah different types of shred do stack
Idr which is applied first if applied at once

willow thorn
#

And Similar types of shred? DEF% Shred? They do not?

icy jay
#

I want to replay the history, can i bought the coins for that? or its better to keep them and use it for another thing?

urban sleet
#

They don't iirc

coarse notch
light latch
#

AK usually does flat first then % for most things iirc

urban sleet
#

Oh they do SoraWow

willow thorn
#

Oh. Many thanks

odd sky
light latch
urban sleet
urban sleet
glad elm
#

What are ascalon's use case?

urban sleet
#

Stall em
And s1 is something afkslop cult uses ig

ionic herald
#

Which module for blaze?

urban sleet
#

Blaze the guard or primal caster

ionic herald
#

Guard

lone valley
#

"Which" meaning theres a choice
Only guard has a choice, think :realmad:

urban sleet
#

I dont memorise mid ops having modules or not sadly

glad elm
lone valley
#

Blaze too shit to use modblocks on
But if u so must, modX

violet kernel
urban sleet
lone valley
ionic herald
#

Lappland alter, which skill to m3?

glad elm
#

Damn OK I got lucky on that 3 free select 6* then

Also S2M3 mod X right?

abstract mauve
# glad elm So like Ethan but female and bind-less?

basically imagine umiri but with 50% more damage 3x better uptime no range extention and no fear application. oh and she applies slow instead of mvspd down but she also has the mvspd down module instead of umiri's dodge chance up

lone valley
#

Yes
And its not "free"

lone valley
urban sleet
#

Depending on your picks for that banner you could not have been unlucky ReedBean and yeah it cost you pulls

abstract mauve
urban sleet
glad elm
glad elm
vital kelp
abstract mauve
glad elm
lean pawn
#

Hello here could I get some helpSkadiDaijoubu

severe crypt
#

Is it gameplay help?

lone valley
#

Nuh uh

vital kelp
severe crypt
#

And is it Arknights (not endfield) help

urban sleet
#

Rral quedtion^

severe crypt
#

Did your keyboard die

lean pawn
lone valley
#

Thats worse typos than mine

glad elm
#

Dawg I played this game for so long I never knew slow n mvspd down is different or even exists 😭

urban sleet
#

If anythung goi g typoless for so long was a mircale

lone valley
#

Now thats just on purpose

urban sleet
#

Erm no, not correcting was tho

severe crypt
urban sleet
#

Can also watch loe-rarity guides on yt

lean pawn
#

Right thenSkadiDaijoubu

vital kelp
#

guys so reading bellone's kit it says he changes target if he hasnt attacked for 1 sec, what if hes disarmed does he teleport away

urban sleet
#

What does disarm do again

#

Andoain event snipers?

wispy summit
#

unable to normal attack

urban sleet
#

Yeah that's them, think bellone stays in that spot if no target to attack, dunno if disarm woukd change that

ancient lintel
urban sleet
#

And some hot chocolate WarSmug

vital kelp
ancient lintel
#

hit the heaters to activate them then place someone to the right of the heater to keep it permanently active

urban sleet
#

Mb my pepega brain thought disarm when no target LappDumb

coarse notch
vital kelp
#

自身攻击的精英、领袖敌人被击倒,或自身持续1秒未进行攻击时,会立即重新选取目标

if the elite/boss enemy is knocked down, or he hasnt attacked for 1 second, immediately reselect target

what if like he teleports onto degen's face then gets disarmed but no other enemy in range what happens

ancient lintel
#

is lappland really the only solution to stultifera navis?

urban sleet
#

Stays there ig

glad elm
#

Wait just checkin, everyone uses mod x ascalon cuz mod Y is just survivability right?

coarse notch
#

cuz mody just sucks
mody is for s3 but no one uses s3

urban sleet
proven kelp
vital kelp
ancient lintel
lone valley
#

Navis is 3 years old
Just shit on it with any new op

urban sleet
#

Why is event mechanic not among them LappDumb

coarse notch
#

use a dodge ignore operator or just block the nethersea brand

glad elm
lament loom
lone valley
#

Or simply elem dmg

urban sleet
#

Or catbomb DocSmile

proven kelp
#

Dodge just dies to stun or bind lmao

vital kelp
glad elm
lyric lagoon
#

mfw hand of saint

coarse notch
#

i guess if you need the expanded range for some reason but ive yet to see a use for ascalon s3

urban sleet
vital kelp
lyric lagoon
glad elm
proven kelp
#

I'd rather use a different op for afk than her

coarse notch
#

funnily enough if ascalon is constantly attacking, her talent2 messes up her s1 timing

urban sleet
lyric lagoon
#

what afk skills aren’t afk slop anyways aside from pram s2

urban sleet
coarse notch
#

weedy s2

opal tundra
#

For kroostar do I need to put all my unit or just 6 cost

glad elm
proven kelp
#

Saki s1 with Umiri s1 is peak afk

vital kelp
coarse notch
urban sleet
lyric lagoon
#

mudrock 💔… wait thorns s2? don’t you mean s3

opal tundra
#

Do I need pc i cant access it rn im on my phone

coarse notch
#

weedy s2 is still the best solution to eooc bottom lane ChenShrug

urban sleet
vital kelp
#

basically

urban sleet
coarse notch
vital kelp
#

u aint tanking the spike spitter with cuora + any 3 4* healer at e1 bruh

urban sleet
#

Why is the context e1 HellaHands and low rarity

vital kelp
#

if u have e2 why dont just brute force ReedBean

lyric lagoon
urban sleet
#

True that but erm wouldnt ppl without e2s use lumen

vital kelp
#

ReedBean lumen hps is low

urban sleet
#

Wait fuck I misplaced his stun removal for healing mb ReedBean

vital kelp
#

how many skills get interrupted by stun?

urban sleet
#

Unless its something like lee due to his talent, every skill ig
Or sth like trag since cat is not affected by trag being stummed

wispy summit
#

3 iirc

urban sleet
#

ExuStare woah

wispy summit
#

hmm am I thinking something wrong again

#

yeah im thinking friendly paralysis

undone portal
#

3 ops dont get interrupted by stun, you mean?
lee (all skills), lessing s3, pepe s1

astral thorn
#

So ive got logos and silverash and ill ne on day 7 and get ptolsis tomorrow.

Should I throw everything into logos? Or should I e1 4 star defenders dont have the good 4 stars yet just matterhorn and bubble w a dupe bubb

winter crystal
#

And like they said earlier you can use the ops deployables while they are stunned but can’t use their skills like deepcolors skill no but can still place down tentacles

raven ermine
#

Well tbf, pepe remove status, she's not immune to it

lament loom
#

I assume its because Summons count as separate entity

lone valley
#

No skills get interupted by stuns
Since most skills are just atk behaviour changes, so stun would just make the op stop acting but skill would skill continue to tick off
Prolly the only skills that stun can fully kill is shit like, channeling on marcile, gummy s2 cooking(?) And like, powerstrike skills if its frame perfect and ulpi moving with s3

mellow mural
#

How much does a full page of level 90 6 stars cost?

astral thorn
#

Any advice on who to build ? My logos is skill 4 e1 lvl 57 im on day 6

undone portal
raven ermine
astral thorn
lament loom
astral thorn
#

Also is click worth building

undone portal
raven ermine
#

With logos you should be fine

winter crystal
undone portal
light latch
astral thorn
#

Thx

lone valley
astral thorn
#

Oh no

#

I just gave a description

lone valley
lone valley
#

No shit

raven ermine
#

Thing is, ulpi has a few iframes, so the tight timing might just be eaten by rdp frames

astral thorn
#

Can you synch krooster to your account if youre glpbal

wraith flicker
#

Would I be better off using the M3 ticket on Myrtle or Ethan?

lyric lagoon
#

myrtle gets nerfed if you e2 unless you s1m3 her

undone portal
#

yes
do note krooster doesnt really sync so much as you go in and re-import your acc data manually when you wish

undone portal
winter crystal
lyric lagoon
raven ermine
#

It doesn't even

lament loom
#

I was confused for a moment

undone portal
#

dp cost increase happens at e1 CeobeConfused

winter crystal
#

^

undone portal
#

are you conflating the s*pah gummy advice onto myrtle

opal tundra
lone valley
#

Holy 2023 acc

raven ermine
#

sl7 your ops before doing mods
Raise your base slaves

undone portal
#

check /baseskills, finish raising your base workers
get your squad to skill rank 7
then come back

abstract mauve
#

hi chat. who is better in is4 between underflow and senshi?

#

these are my options. ignore hoshi2

raven ermine
#

Would go underflow personally

undone portal
#

i dont recall is4 asking for hitcount/invis reveal very much at all, so i dont imagine underflows doing much
unless youre desperate for more damage, i would take senshi

lone valley
#

Blender

abstract mauve
#

my damage is raidian and she's currently rolling over is4 with summoner hand. so util is more appreciated currently

winter crystal
glossy coral
#

guys does this thing only work for operators I own? I selected Logos (I don't own him) and it seems like I can't actually use him in the stages?

abstract mauve
#

i have umiri for slow. umiri is just kinda better underflow imo

undone portal
#

raidian summoner hand SoraWow
yea your damage is set. get senshi and make sure she doesnt die

raven ermine
#

tbf if you don't need the damage or slow, underflow won't do much yeah

lyric lagoon
winter crystal
abstract mauve
#

might go senshi cuz my healers are 💀

undone portal
#

hows your healing situation i see FiaDed

lyric lagoon
#

you just gotta use a support slot on them if you don’t own them

abstract mauve
#

e1 rose salt e2 xingzhu

opal tundra
#

Ok gotta talk to me like I’m new it’s has been a while since I logged in again I feel like a boomer here

glossy coral
opal tundra
#

Not feel am one I mean

undone portal
#

thats .. not bad, but guardians are pretty comfy in is4. xingzhus a lot more comfy when you have someone with consistent healing to supplement her burst

#

cycle xingzhu s1 + senshi s2 for high healing req and you should be fine i think

opal tundra
#

Sorry if I sound pushy just really unsure of direction from where I am at and still trying to familiarize myself with the game again

raven ermine
# opal tundra Not feel am one I mean

Raise your operators skill levels to 7, at least the ones you're using
You have a lot of operators with good base skills (to, well, work in your base) that need to be elite1 to unlock it
Check #bot-spam /baseskills and work on those

#

If you need a refresher/want to check where you're at regarding your base, check #bot-spam /base too

mellow mural
#

Why do these things count as elites lmao

#

Lemuen just dumped all her ammo on it lol

abstract mauve
#

they're pretty intimidating

severe crypt
#

Saria s3 usage in the big 26 🥹

abstract mauve
#

imagine an invincible ball moving at mach 10

mellow mural
severe crypt
mellow mural
#

With her geek trait and Saria talent 2

lyric lagoon
#

saria talent 2 to sp gen, ain’t no way

severe crypt
#

So uhh, have you considered if she needs sp buffing

winter crystal
#

The op that already gets a sp buff if you keep her hp up SkadiDaijoubu

mellow mural
#

LOL

#

Hey more uptime doesn't hurt y'know

severe crypt
#

This seems like diminishing returns, especially with saria’s 80 sp cost

lyric lagoon
#

realistically when are you going to run out of her ammo in a general stage where you need constant uptime

mellow mural
#

Ok I haven't actually found a practical situation yet but it's kinda funny

winter crystal
#

When you accidentally manually deactivate it LappDumb

raven ermine
#

~~Use arts at least ~~

rain forge
#

is the dmitri banner 5* decent or shit

ancient lintel
#

she's a splash caster, interpret that how u want DocSmile

ancient current
#

she's pretty decent from what i've seen

#

surprisingly enough

ancient lintel
#

wait she's not shit?

rain forge
#

🥹

winter crystal
#

Not top 10 = Garbo in help

pale tapir
#

what makes her more useful than say, lava alt?

balmy panther
#

she legits looks solid
if they make a 6star based on her kit
it will be actually playable

rain forge
#

no fucking way dmitri’s kit gets mogged by a 5* RedOmegaLul

raven ermine
#

That's not what they said

abstract mauve
#

the splash caster 5* is pretty good from numbers alone. also apparently might have insane splash caster hand synergy BagNino

coarse notch
#

no way undulation comp buffs

pale tapir
ancient current
thin scaffold
#

Is there any way to level up trust faster?

pale tapir
#

assign op as base assistant, put in activity room, and put them in your squad when u clear stages using sanity

raven ermine
#

Also dorm/TR/workshop

ancient current
thin scaffold
#

Logos

coarse notch
#

cant wait for the undulation comp that now requires 10 caster tickets

thin scaffold
#

I did all that so the trust really going up slowly

abstract mauve
coarse notch
#

just gotta wait

abstract mauve
#

her SP lockout is like a second or two but her DoT lingers for 5 more seconds

ancient current
#

interesting

#

more exciting performance than bolognaise? SoraWow

sand folio
#

What's the practical difference between Training Time and Training Speed?

balmy panther
coarse notch
pale tapir
#

the same difference between Time and Velocity

ancient current
digital phoenix
#

But doesn't the "effect expires if either Operator leaves the Training Room" contradict that?

coarse notch
#

you start the training with both in the room, it cuts the time in half, then you swap out the trainer

raven ermine
#

Means that you can't switch logos out and "store" the buff

coarse notch
#

in practice, you just train the operator's m1 and m2 with logos fully, then start m3 with him and swap out for the highest % trainer
you can micro the m1/m2 to shave off a bit more time but its a hassle

sand folio
#

On average how much does the increase in speed translates to time reduction?

balmy panther
#

microing m1 is only setting you up for failure to save 1h
dont do it

raven ermine
#

I really don't see why people would minmax to this extent, but it exists, ig

balmy panther
severe crypt
tiny abyss
#

All ts just to wait faster smh
-# I raised Irene to e2 for this lol SoraWow

coarse notch
#

mfw i tried to micro m1 and put logos in for 4 hr and 55 min FiaStare

abstract mauve
#

how much harder is d15 is4 compared to d12?

raven ermine
coarse notch
#

then again you're playing your welfare tacfort squad right

severe crypt
#

later, Shileds got his ass beat because he listened to schrodin

coarse notch
#

the additional stats might be a bigger issue for you then
mechanics wise its not that big of a deal

abstract mauve
#

just doing ed1 for now cuz farming medals for IS central ireneburg

coarse notch
balmy panther
abstract mauve
#

is2 still the hardest IS by far for welfare at least LappWorried

astral thorn
#

How do I send krooster link

raven ermine
#

There's a share link in settings

astral thorn
#

Thx

abstract mauve
#

is2 im losing d9 to ed1 🥹
every other IS welfare only can steamroll max diff ed1 at least

coarse notch
astral thorn
violet widget
#

hi I had logos that you advised me to do afterwards obviously I continue the story but which operator am I setting up?

astral thorn
#

Any advice on who i should focus on

raven ermine
coarse notch
abstract mauve
#

that's what happened. i would've gotten rolled in the alternate stage RedOmegaLul
normal one was easy enough brute force with the relics i had anyway

honest plinth
#

any tips on killing theresa H14-4

raven ermine
violet widget
sly compass
#

In Stationary Security Service, do these buffs stack? Or do you only get the most-recently-deployed buff?

abstract mauve
raven ermine
#

Theresa is easy, just retreat when she's about to coccoon

astral thorn
#

Sl 7

signal dragon
astral thorn
#

Skill lvl??

honest plinth
#

is leizi alt the best one here on doing that

coarse notch
sly compass
astral thorn
#

Thx. Basically im asking bc im still getting pushed in lol

coarse notch
#

iirc on h14-4 it was every 35% hp lost on phase 1

abstract mauve
#

tequilla + absinthe obliterates her. im sure you can find replacements to dps theresa

abstract mauve
honest plinth
#

I should build absinthe....

balmy panther
raven ermine
coarse notch
#

trap the cocoons that spawn with the stage using roadblocks, if you avoid getting your operators caught by the hp gated cocoons you have effectively unlimited time to deal with the stage

pale tapir
#

by trap do u mean use the blocks to stop them from spreading?

jade jasper
honest plinth
#

I played that stage once....what does coccoon look like

coarse notch
#

for phase 2 normally arts damage would be preferred but your physical dps options are so overkill it shouldnt matter

raven ermine
#

tbf you can avoid cocoons entirely

pale tapir
#

dang didn't know u could do that
I just blasted her to the moon

jade jasper
#

just make sure nobody hits them later on

violet widget
jade jasper
coarse notch
#

it really isnt, she only has 2500 def

honest plinth
#

I definitely did smth terribly wrong playing that stage....gonna try looking for these coccoons

wispy totem
#

only?

jade jasper
#

only is funny thing to add to that number

coarse notch
#

modern physical dps options easily penetrate that level of def

raven ermine
honest plinth
#

glowing sleepy tile=coccoon?

#

they are....destroyable?

coarse notch
#

well, technically yes, but when you destroy them the operator that destroyed it gets a new cocoon spawned on top of them

honest plinth
#

remind me what's the...clue to when to activate full leizi

coarse notch
#

also you are aware of the dust's (stuff orbiting her) damage reduction effect right

ancient lintel
#

It's a much easier thing to look out for than mylnar's shiny sword imo

#

I cant tell when does this male uma has full trait and when he doesnt

coarse notch
raven ermine
#

You can always check if their atk stat is moving or not

honest plinth
#

when my operator is sleeping every 0.5 sec I just redeploy it elsewhere?

coarse notch
#

what

grizzled galleon
#

Are none friend supports based on my level?

coarse notch
#

might want to read the wiki page for theresa

formal shadow
#

:clueless:

coarse notch
violet widget
#

fot the 6 and 5 stars select which operator advise to take ?

grizzled galleon
#

So in confused why cause it wasn’t like this earlier

raven ermine
#

Are you above account lv20 ?

coarse notch
#

when you reach a certain level the game stops finding you max level accounts to borrow from, you gotta find your own friends then

grizzled galleon
raven ermine
#

That is why

grizzled galleon
#

Kk

dapper crow
#

Heya all, this banner with Monster and Logos worth it?

#

Ive read the recommendations but still not sure, Arent Monster and Logos super good?

raven ermine
#

They're good sure
Do you have ascalon/ray
How many pulls do you have currently
Are you very new ?

ionic herald
#

They are good, but i think the next limited banner is very close

dapper crow
#

This account hanst even finished chapter 2 i think?

raven ermine
#

You could pull until the first 6* imo
If you do, i'd pick monster asca logos
Ray is very good, but you do have phys covered to an extent

dapper crow
#

Is it ok to talk about the opcoming ops here? Or do i spoiler tag?

raven ermine
#

You can, no need for spoiler warnings

#

Except if you mean lore, but idt you are, so ChenShrug

ancient lintel
#

I mean we talked about chen3 bellone and wang all the time so DocSmile

dapper crow
#

Ah cool, are the next big banners the new wxu and chen?

ancient lintel
raven ermine
#

According to cn schedule, upcoming banners are mantra, then sash2 pram2 yeah

dapper crow
#

Are sash2 and pram 2 that crazy?

ionic herald
#

Is yu worth building?

raven ermine
#

Yes, it's a very good banner
Pram2 is on par, if not better than logos
Sash2 is a very good vanguard with a lot of utilities

shadow bay
# ionic herald Is yu worth building?

~~me??? im so very worth thank you very much KroosEvil ~~

he is... ok .. ig... he have s2 that can shift enemies onto him, and he is famous to masses for burn access to ur arts dmg ops

crimson star
#

should I e2 cantabile if the only e2 I have is la pluma

ancient lintel
shadow bay
raven ermine
crimson star
signal dragon
#

why so many E1 ops, also Myrtle uses s1

raven ermine
#

E2 your mlynar
Raise less units, you're spreading your resources too much

signal dragon
shadow bay
#

and that way he spread way too much of resources also speculate me he doesn't max their skills

silver smelt
#

Logos mod delta 3 S3m3
Sakiko mod3 s3m3 if you havne't already
Sash mod3

raven ermine
#

logos mod3 > sash mod3 > surtr mod2 and you can consider kroos2 mod1
Make sure sakiko is mod2
For masteries, it's s3 for sakiko/silverash/logos/surtr
S1m1 saria
S2 haruka (tho s3 is fine too)

silver smelt
#

bro is never using s3

raven ermine
#

Yeah s3 haruka is a bit more niche i guess

vivid yew
#

im new to the game and just wanted to e1 raidian, i kinda dont understand the event, can someone help me? and do i need to show my characters?

earnest sparrow
#

what's nearl's S1 range? because it says focus on healing surrouning allies but doesn't mention to what range exactly

raven ermine
#

Those are imo the lowest prios in your roster currently
gg s3m3 mody1 and bagpipe i would not bother doing masteries/mod to be entirely honest

unkempt pollen
#

cause, well, said allies surround said tile

abstract mauve
#

hi chat, which has more healing, doc s2 or tuye fall below 20%?

shadow bay
vivid yew
vivid yew
#

ty

shadow bay
# vivid yew do i just keep playing randomly

well yes but actually no

if ur playing it first hand, it is expected for u to be clueless....point of rouge lite games is for u to explore, mess up, learn on it and proceed...

as u play along whatever u doing would make sense so u would have idea of what to do on every later runs...

vivid yew
#

okok ill try my best thinkHeadSideWaysCutePondering ty!!

latent ginkgo
#

Can I still unlock IS-5 endings while also doing the storyteller list

coarse notch
#

no

latent ginkgo
sand folio
#

Is there any in-game way to know what's the pool of those vouchers without buying them?

ivory terrace
#

no
but it basically only comprise of ones available on launch 6 years ago

coarse notch
#

no but you shouldnt be buying those anyways

raven ermine
#

Those are terrible, so uh, the pool does not really matter

signal dragon
#

it's the worst thing you could buy with green certs

sand folio
abstract mauve
#

you can ask rechord. he bought the 4* one for science

signal dragon
#

it's just every launch 4*

raven ermine
#

Truly a man of the people

severe crypt
#

Likely as much “Science” as his s1m3 reedalt

abstract mauve
#

was estelle there at launch?

hexed adder
#

As description said, launch ops

tiny abyss
#

Wtf vro doesn't that mean there's no Catapult in the 3* one

signal dragon
#

3* voucher should be everyone but spot and catapult

abstract mauve
ivory terrace
#

there was guarantee tag for her. b4 popukar lol

hexed adder
#

3* exclude a6 member other than orchid yea

coarse notch
signal dragon
#

it's better now

abstract mauve
#

why is the hand not simpsons colored

raven ermine
#

Because fuck discord updates

ivory terrace
#

u can choose skin tone anyway

spare dirge
#

do the rebuilding mandate reward points stack for the next reward phase

fathom nest
#

Doubt it

sand folio
fathom nest
#

Nothing in-game afaik

odd sky
#

to check in game you buy it

ivory terrace
#

not prior to purchase

#

idk about the 30 dollar 6* selector tho DoroAK

raven ermine
#

You can

coarse notch
#

you can check that one before iirc

raven ermine
#

Only during anniversary and half anni banners

reef sparrow
#

chat what is the fastest way to clear RA rewards SkadiDaijoubu any methods

sinful sleet
raven ermine
odd sky
#

glowstick, there's one in roadless camelot too i believe

raven ermine
#

ya glowstick sorry

severe crypt
#

Ra3 will save the RA fans trust 🥹

raven ermine
#

You're welcome SuzuHeart
You're wrong tho

fathom nest
raven ermine
#

Yeah i meant the type of banner/event, not the timing
Always found it a bit confusing to convey tho

#

Maybe i should call those celebrations banners instead or smth

signal dragon
#

I usually just say the months to reduce confusion

abstract mauve
#

i feel like their CN names just make more sense

honest copper
#

Does wisadel's turret summons count as summons? Will collectibles buff them?

fathom nest
#

They are

abstract mauve
#

for collectibles purposes they count ye

honest copper
#

ty!

raven ermine
#

You can check that on tomimi with the fowlbeast (or any summon relics)

severe crypt
#

Tomimi.dev YA

tender sleet
#

what does this summon?

formal shadow
#

anyone

elfin loom
#

is it worth pulling on orienterring banner just for ascalon? i have all other 5 units

wooden notch
#

What are you guys using ?

fathom nest
#

The risk is too high for dupes

signal dragon
#

you'd be pulling for 66% chance of dupes

signal dragon
tender sleet
fathom nest
fathom nest
tender sleet
elfin loom
wild cedar
polar viper
fathom nest
elfin loom
#

oh virtuosa is a limited? 🥀

fathom nest
#

Yah

elfin loom
#

damn sad_hamster

is it worth going for a spark even?

signal dragon
#

no

fathom nest
#

Not at all

elfin loom
#

i just see her used alot in combo with logos and it looked really good- ah rip 😔

#

do limiteds ever get added to gold cert? probably not right?