#Heater don’t shut off while heatsoaking

96 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

rare orchid
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The heater don’t shut off even when the chamber temperature was reached while heatsoaking.

vast nebulaBOT
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rare orchid
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@rugged pollen @safe geyser

safe geyser
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so this is an existing printer that was working that you upgraded to RC4 correct?

rugged pollen
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Can you upload your printer.cfg please...

rare orchid
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Now after heatsoaking it shuts off the heater

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So now it controls it like it should

rugged pollen
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Okay... sounds good.
Some questions regarding your heater... Is this one from RatRig, some aftermarket ready to go and just plug ´n play solution?

I´m missing some settings in the printer.cfg for it...

How is the temperature in the chamber checked?
How do you control the heater temperature?

rare orchid
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It is this one

safe geyser
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so its a SSR controlled heater correct? Your config is missing a lot of stuff for the RatOS chamber heater macro to work from my understanding.

rugged pollen
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Okay...

safe geyser
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at a minimum you need to define [temperature_sensor chamber], [heater_generic chamber_heater] and [heater_fan chamber_heater_fan]

rare orchid
rugged pollen
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Yup, exactly... I may can help you out... with my config. You just need to adapt it to our pins.
On the other side... The part you are using is regulaated to 80°C max. That means it takes a lot of time to get to temperature in the chamber.

safe geyser
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I do not read german but using translate in my browser that looks to be an all in one unit that I am not sure if can controlled correctly. As Rigattoni said its limited to 80C which is not good for this usecase and does it even have a way to wire the fan separately from the PTC heater?

rare orchid
safe geyser
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RatOS assumes the chamber heater fan runs the entire time and the heater cycles on and off as needed

rare orchid
rugged pollen
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Let me explain something as you are in a meeting... 😉

Preconditions:

  • Heater controlled by Klipper, means that Klipper switches an SSR which powers the heater.
  • The heater itself should get temperature controlled by Klipper to make sure it does not overheat.
  • The chamber needs to get a thermistor mounted somewhere in the printer which is not directly blown by the heater.

How does it look like in Klipper...

#############################################################################################################
### Enclosure heater and sensor
#############################################################################################################

[heater_generic chamber_heater]
gcode_id: chamber_heater
heater_pin: PB11
smooth_time: 10
sensor_type: Generic 3950
sensor_pin: PF7
control: pid     # Your heater itself needs to get a proper PID tuning. 
pid_Kp=15.956 
pid_Ki=0.540 
pid_Kd=117.872
pwm_cycle_time: 0.25
min_temp: 0
max_temp: 160
max_power: 1.0

[heater_fan chamber_heater_fan]
pin: PD13
heater: chamber_heater
heater_temp: 50
#fan_speed: 0.5 # to be set if the heater is not strong enough to heat up in time due to fan power.

#-------------------------
# Temp sensor in chamber
#-------------------------
[temperature_sensor chamber]
sensor_type: ATC Semitec 104GT-2
sensor_pin: PF4

On top of the printer.cdg in the section of [gcode_macro RatOS] I do have some deviations from the regular chamber heater settings in RatOS:

# 
variable_chamber_heater_preheating_temp: 135             # Added to reduce the preheating temp of the chamber heater.
variable_chamber_heater_heating_temp_offset: 15           # int = the temp offset for the generic_heater, in addition to the target chamber_temp, while printing
variable_chamber_heater_air_circulation_enable: True      # True|False = uses the part cooling to blow air from the top of the chamber to the bottom when preheating the chamber
variable_chamber_heater_air_circulation_fan_speed: 0.20   # float = the part cooling fan speed that is used to circulate the air when preheating the chamber
#

...and you can see:
My heater goes up to 135°C and is strictly cut off at 160°C. In this case Klipper goes into a fail safe mode and stops working.

I fear that you need to work on your heater solution.
You really need to add additional settings in Klipper to keep that thing under control.

rare orchid
rare orchid
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It shouldn’t do anything with the fan of the heater. The fan is on when the heater is on.

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On my vc4 300 this is working the exact same config

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Same heater same temp thermistor

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And is is switching on and off the SSR of the heater while heatsoaking

rugged pollen
rare orchid
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So back to the problem

Why doesn’t switch Klipper the SSR on if the chamber is above 50 degrees

rugged pollen
rare orchid
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Okay thank you😁

rugged pollen
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I miss anything... PID tuning is one thing... If it is a normal switch if the temp is 50° the heater would still heat as these heater do have a high overshooting.

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But hey... You can use it as is, but it is not as it should get set up.

rare orchid
rugged pollen
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I wonder that it works as it should do without proper set up... May be because it runs earlier in the shut down about the max temp of 80° in the heater.

rare orchid
rugged pollen
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You need urgently a senson in the heater. Do not use a heater without temp sensor!

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Reason:

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What happens if the fan goes south and does not cool down the heater? I would not risk that scenario

rare orchid
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Then the heater itself shut off

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So this can’t happen

rugged pollen
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No it can damage the complete heater due to heating up to 160° which is the max temp of a PTC...

rare orchid
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How can I use it without an sensor

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Is there a possibility or do I have to write my own script for this usecase ?😫😅

safe geyser
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Ratos chamber heater macro is configured to use two thermistors. One has to be in the heater. Yes you could maybe do something else but that is risky even with a PTC heater. Buy a pt1000 thermistor and install it in the heater fins. That’s all I did

rugged pollen
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...or a cheap generic glass bulb sensor as I have. Just a 3950

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You really need to keep the heater temperature controlled.

rare orchid
rugged pollen
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The sensor is pressed into the fins of the heater...

rare orchid
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I mean on the electric side

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Free Connection Point

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Or how to say haha

safe geyser
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Why do you have so many sensors?

rare orchid
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I have the kraken motors and every temp of them

safe geyser
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Loose one of those and put it in the heater or remove the heater

rugged pollen
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Well... JUst get rid of the motor temp... that is not needed.

rare orchid
rugged pollen
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...and this is no VCore printer, right?

No you can´t simulate temperatures...

rare orchid
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But it is vc4

rugged pollen
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...and where do you got the temperatures of 4 motors?

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...and why

rare orchid
rare orchid
rugged pollen
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Well... if you have temp sensors for motors... If you count the motors you would count 5 in mimimum, not 4.

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Get rid of them in your config, they are not needed.

rare orchid
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But a nice to have so why not

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Back to the sensor can I set a value to the variable which is used in the macro for the heater ?

rugged pollen
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...because you miss at least one and you don´t have the connectors to fit a really important one. 😉

rare orchid
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I need it working

rugged pollen
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This is mine...
Same board, TMC 5160 and 7 motors, heater and filter...

image.png
rare orchid
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Okay back to the sensor haha

rugged pollen
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No... not back to the sensor... Back to simplifying your setup to be able to controll your heater. 😄

rare orchid
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I don’t have a sensor here at the moment but need to do a print today 😂

rugged pollen
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...sorry to say, but you even did not PID tune your bed and Extruder. Use it as is and shut down the heater manually if the printer is hot enough.

We are not able to give a workaround for this setup. No way... Sorry

rare orchid
rugged pollen
rare orchid
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And this is not affable the pid tuning?

rugged pollen
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If the heater does not reach the temperature in a tested and pid tuned time Klipper would throw an error.
Same for bed and extruder.
... and you did not do the PID tuning for both.
Why not following the given setup instructions. That needed a lot of time with a lot of people to set them up and think about any not normal behavior.
The way you are using your printer is not as it should be used.

Don´t get me wrong... I don´t blame you for that, just try to give you a nice hint to think about that. 🙂
Peace!

rare orchid
rare orchid
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And another thing is I am develop a heater and this heater should be used for filament drying or chamber heater and I will provide just two clamps to control the SSR of the heater so I thought. You just have to turn the SSR on and off to be able to use the heater but because you also need a sensor, it makes it more complicated again 😁 I also have a manual control so on the heater directly if you want to use it but via Clipper is of course more relaxed

rugged pollen
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Well, as I already explained...
You need a thermistor to control the heater temperature and another thermistor for the chamber temperature.
Anything else is not safe, even an external safety temp switch is not what is needed.
To be able to hold the chamber temperature, the heater needs to get pid controlled.

Let me explain the regular setup:
You send something to the printer and start the print.
The bed and chamber heater (135°C) get activated and the chamber heater is pulled down to 70° as soon as the chamber temp is reached and pulsed to keep the temp until the heat compensation is done.
Then, the heater is just activated if the temperature in the chamber get´s under the set temperature set in the filament settings of your slicer.

rare orchid
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Hello @rugged pollen I just have one question again,
What is with this one : chamber_heater_control_external_heater

If I understand I can just switch on and off an external heater with this command without an extra sensor or something or ?

rugged pollen
rare orchid
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Like here explained