New Matchmaking System

[wild zealot]

The current party seperation hurts both old and new players because they can't play with their friends. The current MM hurts both old and new players because higher level means longer queue time and they will make smurfs to stomp newbies. I suggest balancing the matchmaking sorely on points achieved in the last 5 games, with a party of 3 will have the point of the best player to avoid a scenario when one higher skilled player party with 2 newbies. Also because people keep complaining about high level players, something like an anonymous name, when you have 'Player 1' etc. with level 1 on it, kinda like in Valorant is very appreciated. That will also help fixing queue dodging or any kind of toxicity towards a person.

Korean: 현재 파티 분리는 오래된 플레이어와 새로운 플레이어 모두가 친구와 함께 플레이할 수 없다는 문제를 야기하고 있습니다. 또한 현재의 매치메이킹은 높은 레벨이 대기 시간을 늘리기 때문에 스머프를 만들어 초보자를 눌러버리게 합니다. 나는 마지막 5판에서 얻은 점수를 기반으로 매치메이킹을 균형있게 조정하는 것을 제안합니다. 3인 파티의 경우 최고의 플레이어의 점수를 사용하여 높은 숙련도를 가진 플레이어가 2명의 초보자와 파티를 구성하는 상황을 피해야 합니다. 또한 높은 레벨의 플레이어에 대한 불만이 많기 때문에 익명의 이름(예: 'Player 1' 등)을 사용하는 것이 좋습니다. 이는 Valorant와 같은 게임에서도 유용합니다. 이를 통해 큐 피하기나 다른 플레이어에 대한 독성을 줄일 수 있습니다.
Japanese: 現在のパーティ分離は、古いプレイヤーと新しいプレイヤーの両方にとって友達とプレイできないという問題を引き起こしています。また、現在のマッチメイキングは、高いレベルが待ち時間を長くするため、スマーフを作成して初心者を踏み潰すことにつながります。私は最後の5試合で獲得したポイントを基にマッチメイキングを調整することを提案します。3人のパーティの場合、最も優れたプレイヤーのポイントを使用して、高いスキルを持つプレイヤーが2人の初心者とパーティを組むシナリオを避けるべきです。また、高レベルのプレイヤーに対する不満が多いため、匿名の名前（例：「Player 1」など）を使用することを提案します。これはValorantのようなゲームでも有用です。これにより、キューを避けたり、他のプレイヤーに対する毒性を軽減できます。

[south minnow]

good idea tbh. leaving level, overall kd and long term stats out of the picture to create teams would help balancing much. this would work against smurfs since they would be judged by their recent performance anyway...

[carmine wyvern]

Yea they messed up real bad this time

[wide abyss]

pls do this as soon as possible, its not fun playing with friends anymore

[wild zealot]

||bump||

[lean galleon]

Then do you have any solution about three strongest men-party? 3 highly skilled member party just ruins game balance. To maintain fun playing with friends, most of players have to suffer? maintain current party system , and revert matchmaking logic. it's all for devs to have to do

[lyric prawn]

The solution is to accept the fact that QUICK PLAY is a CASUAL GAME MODE. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE HERE OTHER THAN YOUR FRAGILE EGO. GO TO RANKED, CLAN WARS, PUGS, OR WHATEVER IF YOU WANT A BALANCED TEAM AND/OR TEAMMATES WITH HALF A BRAIN CELL. THE WIPLE DEV TEAM HAS BEEN CATERING TO THIS GROUP OF CRYBABIES THAT HACKUSATES FASTER THAN THEY COULD LAST IN BED AND IS SLOWLY BUT SURELY KILLING THE GAME.

Please revert. I beg of you.

[still notch]

Find a good player to join your party so you won't get destroyed

[wild zealot]

나는 방금 해결책을 명확하게 설명했습니다. 예를 들어, 각 플레이어의 평균 점수가 3500-3400-3300 정도인 스택이 있다면, 각 플레이어를 평균 점수 3500으로 취급합니다. 이는 총 10500 점입니다. 평균적인 플레이어는 약 1500 점을 얻습니다. 따라서 그 중 6명은 9000 점이며, 이는 파티를 3대 6 상황으로 만듭니다. 모든 시스템에는 결함이 있음을 염두에 두시고, 이것이 균형에 가장 적은 영향을 미치는 것으로 생각합니다. 나는 친구와 함께 놀 수 없는 것에 강하게 반대합니다.

[lean galleon]

If everyone play game with no party, game balance will be better. Play game with friends in same match, no same team. Do you want same team? Then go to clan war

[formal elbow]

You want balanced team? Go ranked. Same logic.
Public / Casual is that, casual. Stop whining about balance and gatekeeping people from playing with their friends

[south minnow]

playing with their friends is too important to cut that out....

[keen mist]

you wanna sweat so much? go f king cod then or val or CS oh wait those games allow people to play with their friends in pubs too

[wild zealot]

Let's just not fight

[keen mist]

guess he can only play single player games from now on

[fathom charm]

That’s actually a good idea. I offer my self for causal party for 5€/1hr. PayPal link in bio

[full sleet]

What a clown take... if you dont want parties go play single player fps games... there you will have option to put the skill of ur enemies on "easy"

[south minnow]

haha lol

afterall this is a casual game people...
if you want more balance go and play cod or smt. idk. or maybe even pugs...

[formal elbow]

Unironically would play this game and spend again, if i could actually play with my friends

[neat zenith]

Nah gotta play private tourneys or pugs for that

[still notch]

does it also include with your foot pic ?

[south minnow]

epal.gg or smt

[fathom charm]

We can deal it with 5€ extra

[wild zealot]

||bump||

[still notch]

I agree

[still notch]

@versed pasture

[wild zealot]

||bump||

[warm mist]

wait people are mad that you get your party split in pubs? scrublords trying to dunk on new players in dm has been one of the main reasons for playerbase decline over the past years, if you want to have fun with your friends you can very well still do so by being in the same lobby as them

[warm mist]

calling people crybabies while also acknowledging its a casual game mode is crazy, you're part of the problem

[eternal pulsar]

This and all those Camper are the Main reason many Players leave or Just don't really play in the First place

[south minnow]

campers arent even the problem man. idk what u smoking but the bad netcode combined with lacking decisions/motivation and wayy to slow change is the reason. adding missing marketing/publicity creates this downfall spiral.
if you have problems with campers: skill issue that you cant check corners or adept to enemy playstyle
if you have problems with balance and having to face too strong players: the systems first tries to find enough player for a lobby and then tries its best to balance those people into fair teams as well as it can. if that means its a 1v1 because all others are bad, its not the matchmaking. its the lack and decline of player numbers making it less possible to form matches that are fair. btw a fair match would be a win in tdm with the score 100:95. doesnt matter if the lowest 3 of one team have 5 kills combined because the balancing tries to make it fair for the most even score...

why do soooo few people get this? just think and look at the numbers and dont try to blame it on others if that is just a lack of skill and ability...

[keen mist]

and there is no benefit to split parties lmao

[eternal pulsar]

You think Marketing and Publicity is the down Spiral so What do we have now a straight negativ fall? I think Money is the only reason this Game doesnt get anything done.
(Bad and few Server)Money problem
(Few devs) Money problem
(Not enough motivation) ? And Money problem
So either they are Just lazy or it is indeed a Money problem

And it might be that you have no Problems with camper, but I am just an average Player with a budget Set-up and normal 32-48ms and I have Problems with hardscoping Camper that use the Bad netcode(as u said 100times) and use "peakers Advantage". If they Player now also has a Ping of 100ms+ and He knows What He is doing u arent able to See His skin
(Just for safety purposes: a normal 32ms Player is seeable when peaking)

[wild zealot]

How does money problem, campers and ping relate to party split?

[still notch]

then what's the point of joining party if you gonna get split ?

[tight lodge]

it doesn't

[warm mist]

idk little bro just use discord and fk around with your friends? I've spent countless of times queing pubs with my team and dunking on eachother for fun; it skips the process of us having to find the lobby in case we don't party up together (not that this game has many lobbies going)

[south minnow]

there are people like you that have no problem with split and playing against their friends. its just the majority wants to play with them if they can...

[warm mist]

the majority of people aren't queue stacking, the majority of people are installing the game and quitting in 10m after getting choke slammed by some random 3 stack

[marsh swallow]

The majority of dont que stack, we just like to play with our friends.

[snow stump]

"Majority" of people are playing with friends.

Majority of those people left when Wiple reduced party size from 6 to 3.

Even more left now when they forced parties of 2-3 to be split.

Even Shyne himself said like ~2weeks ago that he played with low lvl newbies that were confused cuz they were getting split from their friends in a party.

You can defend Wiple as much as you want, parties were never a problem in Ironsight, when even the new players coming from other games are quitting because they can't play with their friends.

Idc about you playing solo your whole life, most people try new games out with their friends, that's it.
And when they can't play in a party together as new players they quit even faster than those "10minutes" you mentioned.

[compact eagle]

Actually crazy when you think about it, removing the ability to play with friends...

[still notch]

bump

[sharp warren]

They should allow parties to play together only if there's another party of same size and skill on the opposite side. Otherwise split them up.

[still notch]

no

[formal elbow]

how about we dont limit peoples ability to play with their friends at all

[warm mist]

you claiming parties were never a problem seemingly as the servers that had to be merged since they died out due to playerbase not wanting to get dunked on by pubstompers 3-stacking, people being confused does not correlate to it being a problem at all.

The fact you're trying to argue against years of people literally complaining incessantly in every single IS stream that they didn't enjoy getting slammed by pub players just doesn't make sense. Just open your eyes when you walk into any pub match over the past years in Ironsight and see how much faster people quit lobbies when there's a 3-stack from idk anxiety/torment/redbullets/whatever you weirdos do in EU/SEA. It's cyclical, lobbies get freed up in the middle of the match because people get tired of getting streaks cycled on them back to back

If we had a good enough playerbase, matchmaking could balance out pubstomp garbage like this from occurring, but since its small, you have no other option but to make it so players who are clearly imbalancing a team get placed on opposite sides. You can argue for a more lenient approach where parties of less skilled players don't get split, but that requires time to plan out. The way it is, it is much healthier for players not to get immediately thrown into the most insanely unbalanced match of ironsight and actually have a chance to shoot back against other new players.

"I just want to play with my friends" argument is the funniest thing to me, like your enjoyment is explicitly tied to being in the same team as your buddies so you can dunk on bad players. There's a reason why activision filtered you pub players out - player retention. Anyone arguing against this just wishes they could spawn trap grey ranks on mart for the 365th time this year

its also funny af to me that you claim this is "Not being able to play with your friends" like you aren't literally sitting on discord with them as you queue up, lil bro just admit you are afraid of getting challenged in your pub lobbies and move on with your life

[wild zealot]

I honestly enjoyed getting pub-stomped by a 3-stack more than this

[neat zenith]

Rather be able to pub stomp with a 3-stack and get pub stomped by a 3-stack than not have a game

[formal elbow]

What if 3 people who are all bad wanna party?
What if a good player wants to introduce two new people to the game and they are bad?
What if…

There are so many constellation for this, yet ironsight gigachad mindset is:
You wanna party = you just wanna win

It’s so bad 😂 Ya‘ll be yapping like anyone got a PhD in Gamedesign, yet this game fails for years to give people generic things that every FPS title has 💀

[wild zealot]

Me is literally number 2 kek, now I have an entire Vietcong army

[warm mist]

this is literally addressed in my post but your thick pub merchant brain cannot allow you to see beyond one paragraph; there's obviously a better implementation to this system but its definitely a lot better than just letting brainlets drive off the playerbase daily.

[formal elbow]

I love how you try to justify everything by adding in insults - ive seen the SEA edit; big racist too lol. I've yet to see a single response without any offensive add ins.
Besides that, steamcharts don't lie. Player decline has always happened when they fiddled with MM or parties ever since the Aeriamerge.
But hey, keep trying to defend something that makes 0 sense. I can hop onto the most dead game ever and still party lol. This game is already on life-support and yet we are still trying to limit people more and more. I'm sure this is how you keep people 👍

[warm mist]

i just wanted to confirm you were indeed from SEA because your region has zero to add to the game since not one of you can compete at a remotely decent level; (which is why i changed it)

i love that you bring up completely arbritrary arguments like "steamcharts = mm changes" while providing zero evidence. Go ahead and party up with your friends at "dead game x" and still completely miss the point and fail to argue against literally everything i mentioned

[wild zealot]

Note: He is from EU

[neat zenith]

[formal elbow]

Everybody can see the detailed steamchart, its out there and can be compared to update timeline 💀 and now you whip out the "skill"-card because that is totally a determining factor for the suggestion at hand with the party oh dear. Thx for your valuable input though 👌

[compact eagle]

Simply put they've sucked the fun out of the game and made it into a sweatfest, which would be fine by itself (not really, but you could find a way to get on with it) if they didn't also remove the ability to play with your friend/'s.

Terrible decision making and an extremely stubborn approach from the devs unfortunately, but hey before you think about buying more wiple points, chips, battle pass whatever it is, just remember they don't give a crap about you (the player) and what you think. This level of arrogance for such a small game is insane, I for one have completely stopped spending on this game and you guys should consider doing the same to until they get the message (kinda mad how they haven't already).

TLDR: JUST STOP SPENDING MONEY WITH THEM, they're laughing as you do 😂

[wild zealot]

||bump||

[keen mist]

Uh huh

[violet mesa]

the point of parties is, you play with your friend on the same team NOT SPLIT YOUR FRIEND ON THE OTHER TEAM. idc about crybabies complaining about they're getting stomped by 3 stacks, they're just bad honestly

[warm mist]

they're just bad= steamcharts shows 300 avg players, gatekeeping is doing yall well

[noble lynx]

Balancing will never fix the playercount period. Ever since the matchmaking update average playercount went from 400-500 to 200-300 and alot of the time later it gets 100 and under. Parties being split added to groups of players not coming back, most new players now adays are shown this game from a friend, not like its just found easily. They cant play together with friends, they simply exit and uninstall the game.

[warm mist]

lmao this is some insane skewing of the data, it hasnt hit 500 consistently in MONTHS, the average has been <300 and it has nothing to do with the matchmaking changes. this is the second person that appeals to steamcharts yet fails to actually bring up any relevant point regarding this. FYI, this month's peak was actually higher than the past four months, so if you're really just basing it off peaks, this was a great change for the game (i dont agree with using this as an argument)

[noble lynx]

Put steamcharts to 1m interval, use your mouse and slowly move it from across the graph, Look the average of 200-300 players in the last 4 weeks, very simple task, im sure thats not hard for you right? I dont take peak players into consideration at all period, only looking at average CONSISTENT PLAYERCOUNT, not the peak players that only happen for 1 hour a day.

[warm mist]

did you even look at the data or do you have difficulty with basic interpretation? i don't know how you can see it portraying the same playerbase fluctuation over the past 6 months and still be brickheaded enough to come to the conclusion that there has been a sudden surge in playercount loss (tl: there hasn't), in fact, there has literally been an 3.06% GAIN in the past month

[compact eagle]

I don’t know why you guys are wasting your time going back and forth on this, there’s been zero acknowledgement from wiple/the devs around the concerns raised so that should in theory tell you everything you need to know.

Does it suck? Yes. Is there a better solution/middle ground? Yes. Is there a reason the player base is small and in continuous decline? Yes, multiple.

The only people who can do anything about this don’t listen to you, me or anyone in this community though, they’ve proven that time and time again.

At the end of the day the biggest losers will be wiple, they’ve constantly made negative changes with next to no transparency in reasoning (which btw is unforgivable for a small team/game) and expected us to get on with it. When the player base continues to collapse, and it will, they won’t be able to sell up (which I think is likely their ultimate goal given their complete lack of consideration for their community).

[wild zealot]

Welp the title was kinda misleading but, I'm suggesting a new kind of MM, and am asking you guys on how I can improve that, NOT how to bring Steam charts here and throwing slurs

New Matchmaking System

[formal elbow]

Suggestion - no MM @ public games. Playerbase too small to properly do it

Remove party split.

[compact eagle]

That’s genuinely all they need to do, it’s kinda unacceptable to completely remove the ability to play with your friends in casual matchmaking.

@versed pasture there needs to be a formal response here rather than ignoring these concerns (not from you, I think most people acknowledge there’s only so much you can do and you’re doing a pretty good job on the whole as the CM)… but the fact that people are unable to play with their friends, that’s kind of shocking and there needs to be some public context/reasoning for that because you’ve effectively decided to change your game completely and not explained why

[versed pasture]

Apologies for not putting a response in this thread, Mon provided some context to the changes in the english channel #english message

To reiterate:
The team is constantly monitoring the matchmaking and team balance systems to uncover any issues and plan further improvements.

We understand the disappointment of not being able to guarantee being on the same team as your friends in casual matches, but we also have to consider the experience of players who encounter the negative aspects of highly skilled parties in a game such as Ironsight where the playerbase size means that low level players can be matched with higher level players, and the skill disparity in a match can be severe. This is then even more exaggerated when players party up.

Party separation is a temporary change for the moment, and is possible to change in the future, as we understand the want to play on the same team as friends; it's something we also enjoy when we play 😅

We truly apologize for the inconvenience caused by the change, but it is something that the team finds necessary for the moment.

[noble lynx]

Can you provide any data that shows these changes actually improved any of said arguments so far?

[versed pasture]

I'm not allowed to share any internal, private data sorry

[noble lynx]

Big communication issue, making changes that arent discussed before implementing them, then not being able to show proof said changes actually made a logical difference in the game.

[versed pasture]

For reference, which games do you follow that you believe have good communication, showing such information?

[noble lynx]

I barely play more than 3 games for years now, but I had a suggestion for polling system like 1-2 years ago that was lost when the user suggestions was updated to a forum thread format. Oldschool runescape is a game I heavily play and every bit of content that has data is publicly shared on reddit, twitter, their discord, and their main website in news section. All graphs of data before changes, after changes, simulation graphs of what could happen from discussed changes. They use a polling system and surveys to gather data to assist in ideas being good/bad or what should be worked on or not. Then that data is reformed and repurposed again in more developed format before implementing anything to the live game. Game averaging 150k-200k+ daily users with content and changes voted for by the community. Mods are active on all social media, have twitch+youtube streams about in-progress development, updates, community feedback, and player engagement events.

[formal elbow]

^this 100%.
Claiming data have shown but not showing said data, is a big problem.

[marsh swallow]

among with unwated changes, and generally failing to give players heads up as to what the plan is.

[nova quest]

I understand that the party split is necessary for the current matchmaking system, but what was the initial cause of changing matchmaking in the first place? Was that also player backlash where they complained that they get stomped by high levels?

[versed pasture]

Do you mean the changes made in February in this patch? https://steamcommunity.com/games/783770/announcements/detail/4052745265567073972

They were made to address two things mainly. The changing of the regional servers to one worldwide server, and frequent user feedback about skill/level disparities in matches.

[nova quest]

Yes, I meant that patch. So yeah, my guess was right.
It really seems like there's no way to balance on the tightrope where on the one end you'll cater to high level, long time players and on the other you cater to low level, new players. Personally, I think the current matchmaking system (in theory) is healthy for the game, but not with the current amount of players on average. I think the complaints about the current matchmaking would be on the low once the issues addressed in this suggestion -> https://discord.com/channels/577313452255608872/1168237727444115456
have been resolved, or at least somewhat addressed.

[versed pasture]

Bare Bear (thanks Coba 😣 ) in mind, feedback/reports about skill and level disparities come from both high level players as well as more casual or new players. New players don't like being matched with experienced players as they find it hard to enjoy or learn the game, and experienced players also don't like to be matched with low level players as they don't enjoy playing with users who are significantly less skilled than them.

[full sleet]

To be honest i dont understand party split at all... newer players needs to learn to try to improve against good players if thats their issue.

Said it million times and i will repeat. Parties can be paired with 3 good players or 3 bad players. Same goes for solo you can be matched with an insane player or lvl 1 player. Casual party stompers are not common in ironsight and even so 1 good player can solo 6mans party with just a little of help, thats how this game is, you regen pretty quickly and can get doubble or tripple kills with ease.

I also understand handicapped people who have a skill cap and cannot improve with time. I have alot of friends in ffxiv that are handicapped and cant raid with our group but do they go on forums or discord to cry about it? No they dont, they accapted that they wont raid at all and they still have fun with the game.

People who suggested party split are a bunch of crybabies that DONT WANT to learn and get better.

People its a fricking casual man and in casual wiple doesnt allow u to play with frieds, cmon now, what game does that....

As we can see wiple wants to attract solo players over people who switch game together. Idk whats the point of that cuz theres 1 solo mission with absolutely 0 story. Its a multiplayer fps game.

[nova quest]

Yeah, I do BEAR that in mind. I even remember having a discussion with you where I showed you a match where I destroyed new players and that I said I shouldn't have been in that match. The issue I see is the low player count. I just feel like the players complain about matchmaking because they don't understand that the player count is too low for such a matchmaking system to healthily take place. It's conflicting. On one hand, reverting the patch will just bring back old problems, on the other hand, with the current matchmaking system the player count is too low to compensate. Like I said, the player count needs to be bigger for the system to become better. I wish I could figure out how to increase the player count, but I just don't think I'm smart enough.
About other issues, it makes me think of Rainbow Six Siege when they dedicated themselves to fixing the game instead of adding more microtransactions. But at the same time they could afford that cuz investments, and Wiple isn't as big as Ubisoft. Anyway, I'm at work now so I gotta go. I wish I could get into that topic more, but I gotta hurry.

[south minnow]

yea i remember stories from operation health in r6s. havent played back then...

anyway. wiple needs to improve the netcode. this is what people keep complaining about because they think high ping = im dead and i cant play anymore. at the same time yall need to increase the player count massively with advertisements, streams, twitch drops maybe. if those 2 bases are okey, this game can be good again. many people left, because its a dying game as of now. they got annoyed by the netcode and problems caused by the low players. i wouldnt mind if you really focus on that because this would keep the game from leaving players.

[compact eagle]

I just wanna be able to play with my mate, is that too much to ask? 😂

[wild zealot]

The game sees new players and smurfs as the same thing

[keen mist]

We dont talk bout it

[wild zealot]

Yeah sure

[warm mist]

shy as someone who consistently teams up with players who are not skilled you should know this isnt the reality of the situation. since people actually insist on this topic i'll sit down to make a detailed argument about this The reality is, three-stack causes a massive disparity that no single individual player can cause on their own, no matter how skilled they are. I'm not sure how the culture is in EU servers, but in NA and SA, it was a rampant problem where lobbies would dismantle in a matter of minutes because the three-stack was often either trying really hard to pubstomp, or were just knowledgeable enough about the game where matches felt terribly imbalanced.
Lobbies with three-stacks are difficult for even the most peak of comp players in ironsight, and I can assure you that anyone in the pug server would probably go negative against a lobby full of three stack sweats trying to kd farm (if they played solo).

The nature is is that you cannot (especially due to low playercount) create an environment where people, even when playing with their friends (and not just to sweat and kd farm), are creating unwinnable, imbalanced, unfun matches for everyone but themselves.

Players in their own team don't get to play, players on the opposite end don't get to play. The way static spawns work in this game, alongside peekers advantage, makes for a very unpleasant experience when people can sit on power positions with their buddies for an entire map (burger on mart, heaven on dam, mid plane and pillars on airport).

I understand that this isnt the most ideal, because the best course of action is to pair three stacks with another three stack on the opposite end, but there are not enough players. Furthermore, there could be an implementation where newer players don't get party split, or that the party split system only works after measuring level + kd of the party in order to balance out matches evenly. Also, i promise you weren't there when people could 6-stack, lmao

PS: i know you can technically not go negative and "play well" against stacks, but that requires you to play super lame and abuse peekers excessively in an otherwise casual gamemode where most people just want to run around and get into gunfights

I'd love to see the data on player retention and lobby disband rate after the party split implementation. I've tested yesterday and came across zero disbanded lobbies and a relatively healthy balance of new and experienced players in the NA servers. I'd love for people to be able to play with their friends as well, as I'm not against players partying together, but with the reality of the playerbase currently, I don't see it happening unless we have many caveats. Perhaps reducing it to a duo queue or making party split more dynamic could work, but I sure as hell don't see telling new players to "get gud" in a dying game from 2017 developed by some indie korean studio that no one knows about (and won't care about) will do any good for the game. If you actually are passionate about ironsight in any way you should probably look inwards to see what are the problems you are creating for your own experience and realize that maybe you and your friends are driving people away from the game

[full sleet]

im totally getting where ur comming from vigarista, ofc pubstompers are a problem. But ALL of the casual "teams" or friends that want to try new game wants to play with friends right? I mean thats my understanding of it when i switch games with my friends... So that means not even 1 team or people with friends will join this game - potentially means decrease of players. Why should all of the community have to suffer because of 1 pubstomp party... We had this issue before, we resolve it with pugs players make a counter party and destroy them every time, which led to them leaving the game - only 3 players, not like bunch of new players in community.

But yeah i agree how do you make a matchaking and party system to work both ways, with this lower base... theres no smart way to go around that.

im not putting much thought of the game anymore cuz game is dying and will die in lets say 1-3 years.

But when i play publics i want to play with friends, no intention of pubstomp but actually playing with friends and laugh about it... i brought i think 10-20 players to this game and they all enjoyed it when we played together. They didnt stick here for too long lets say 50-100 lvls but this is a convo for different topic. If i didnt party with them they would leave before level 10.

tldr: we are waaay past the point to save the game, but vig cmon try to look at it from different perspective POV. Yes pubstomp parties are problem - but i heavent seen 1 from those NA brats back in the days. Party doesnt mean its gonna be 3 pubstompers. Yes, it could be... but it didnt happen for long time, if it did be sure i would make a party every day to stomp them out of the game...

Not enough resources, small team and no marketing will kill whats left of the game and NOT A SINGLE MATCHMAKING update will change that. At least let us play with friends while we still can

[warm mist]

thats the thing, sure you can call on some pug defense force to go dunk on pubstompers (which is what we did back in SA servers), but it's just not feasible. we can't efficiently snipe these guys all the time while their entire hobby is spending 2k hours in pubs dunking on bad players, there's a very clear reason why SA as a server died, ESPECIALLY considering that free shooters are massive in brazil. People just got fed up and quit. Ultimately, it isn't like you aren't playing with your friends, you're just not in the same team as them, i fail to see how that's such a gigantic difference in experience when you're both still talking to eachother, i'd argue it's probably more productive both for new players queing with experienced players to get challenged by people who are actually good, and for new players partying with new players to go against their buddies of similar skill level -- I see no issue

[noble lynx]

having fun killing other team together > having no fun killing your friend over and over

[warm mist]

fun for who? all the people who are arguing FOR this are experienced players, none of you have less than 2 years + on the game.

[noble lynx]

false statement, multiple names ive seen are below lvl 50 in game and definitely no where near "experienced"

[warm mist]

you are honestly so disingenuine its crazy, i recognize 95% of the names here and they're all experienced, there's maybe 1 or 2 guys in this discussion who are new

[full sleet]

idk man agree to disagree

i learned to play against 6 stack top clan parties at that time 5 years ago and never said a word... if thats rly the issue that majoroty have i will go with it i guess

[warm mist]

i played against it too back when I was new against derd's 0gg stack with the worst NA players in the planet and I got sht on consistently until I left the game and went to play something that was actually competitive. it was only after SA servers opened that I came back to the game and took it seriously and by that time the party limit had been reduced to 3. People don't have patience to sit in imbalanced matches they learn ZERO from

[full sleet]

yes but vig we are talking about casual here, ofc other games have more strututive comp and pubs, but in which game do you see party split in CASUAL TDM?

[warm mist]

and you think its gonna be better for casuals....why? People with a lot of competitive experience already don't have time for this, imagine timmy and his broken thumb trying to go up against the avengers in a regular dm lobby. brother this is recurrent in EVERY shooter that has allowed this to exist, it has happened in all cods prior to MW19, it has happened even in modern cods. Furthermore, party splitting is actually a pretty common behavior in all of source games that had custom community servers, and it only isn't a thing in other shooters because they HAVE THE PLAYERBASE TO BALANCE MATCHES

[full sleet]

ur right theres no playerbase to balance the teams, but why do you think with this low playerbase pubstomp parties will form?

there havent been 1 pubstomp team for months. I swear to you vigarista its not about the parties anymore, noone cares about pubstomping poor newbies.

Lazy ahh players who dont want to do research and get better are suggesting it mostly. Like i said i totally get where ur comming from... this would be valid 2 years ago. But in this todays specific case its not the issue

[warm mist]

you say that but when i was competing last tourney i ran into the same 4-5 parties as always and they made lobbies disintegrate so quickly it wasn't even funny

[full sleet]

we might have different experience or different servers, on EU i didnt heard or see anything about pubstomp parties

[eternal pulsar]

The 3party Pub stomps are real.. even if it's just for fun I could have invited 2 of my clan members and we could stomp 80% of lobbies... With the current Players playing a 3-party its just simply Not possible to make a fair Team distribution...
But at least make it possible to Rock duos, because carrying a secure Point Match solo has the Same odds as this Game getting a netcode fix...
And I'm getting hella bored trying to get an average of 30-40kills with 10-15 death every single round Just so i can win

[south minnow]

i rarely see pub stomp parties on eu...

[warm mist]

maybe just maybe there's a reason why EU servers are not dead lmao

[south minnow]

maybe...
or maybe i am the pub stomper...

[noble lynx]

NA will forever be dead because aint no american gonna come back to a game that they were robbed from after the aeria issue

[warm mist]

then could you kindly explain why SA died??

[mellow goblet]

Bro if I'm gonna fk around with my friend ingame. I wanna do it with my friend. I like this. It's the best of both worlds

[wild zealot]

Well.. If SA died because of pubstomping issues, that's the region's issues, not the entire game. We don't have any issues like that in SEA for a long time and like Shynee said, there is no issues in EU either. Now the SA server is removed, because it lacks players and the SA players keep plaguing NA so Wiple decided it's not efficient to keep hosting a server that no one plays on, why are you making a fuss over and over again? You don't even play on SEA yet you are so sure that we have no contribution to the game? The new party split not only guarantees that there won't be new players but also guarantees the decline in the game's already dead playerbase. Why would you ever want to play this game with friends on the other end of your gun lol? Even if you do, we don't, thanks. There is always an option for that, with 10% EXP boost of course.

[formal elbow]

EU never had any really party-stomp-issues. Used to be a decent mix of solo games and parties. Tbf, we also had a good mix of newcomers and veterans, albeit them coming from Aeria too.
Ever since they started twiddling with the MM and party restrictions, more and more left.
Heck, playing against parties ment its gonna be a good game - I remember the funniest public matches against these MaliReborn guys or other clans that partied up.

[warm mist]

I'd love for you to wait and see the data when wiple confirms what I've been experiencing so far. I never cared whether they removed or not the server, I don't play there, I compete at high ping so I never spent my time in SA unless we were pugging regionally. This is just a truth that has plagued NA, SA, and I bet you it does plague EU and SEA but you are just never on the other end of the stick because i'm going to go assume you probably rarely if not ever play solo.

anecdotally, this has been another day where I've experienced zero disbanded lobbies, even in unbalanced matches. It's so hilariously funny to me to see matches where everyone is either evenly scored or players are losing (handedly) but not quitting matches. It's almost like there's a whole different level to pubstomping when stacks are involved that makes people leave. I've also seen at least half a dozen parties of new players on the game still playing with the friends despite being split.

I rest my case, if I'm wrong about this and Wiple has the data that shows this somehow makes new players less likely to play, I'll throw in the towel. But what I'm seeing so far are a bunch of experienced players who are exactly the type to give live callouts to their buddies in pub lobbies (which for the record -- do whatever you want but that is insanely cringe kek) being upset that their opponents actually shoot back sometimes. I'm also seeing lobbies full even at 1am BRT which I haven't seen happen in NA in months.

[noble lynx]

data is private, already asked yesterday, only speculation is being used here

[warm mist]

i mean it is not any less speculation than whatever mental gymnastics you've been trying to use to prove your points lil bro, play the game and experience it yourself

[noble lynx]

been playing the game for years, dont need anything more clear than my own experience every time, theres still issues and will always be issues, but I aint gonna waste my time arguing with a one sided brick wall

[warm mist]

I promise without a shed of a doubt I have probably double or triple your time in this game, I'm probably one of the most turbomaxxed autists when it comes to giving a sht about this game so I'd believe I have a pretty good reason to believe what i do

PS: its post-update server time and theres actually a lobby with green ranks in NA server at 4am BRT.

[noble lynx]

nah

[formal elbow]

Don‘t think anybody disregards your expierence or opinion Vig. But personally I have a really hard time taking you seriously when every paragraph of you either is offensive, insults someone or tries to put someone down.
Little bit less of that and we would have a very good convo here with vastly different expierences across all servers (SA / NA / EU / SEA)

[warm mist]

don't expect to not get insulted when your argument is either saying i'm "pretending to be a god game dev" or reacting with clown emojis kek. don't pretend like you're above insulting people in convos my guy, ive tried being pretty civil

[neat zenith]

This thread is giving me cancer

[wild zealot]

Maybe stop assuming everything alright? You don't know anything about me but you keep saying I never play solo + my region has no contribution to the game, is that how being civil works in your place?

[formal elbow]

B U M P

[compact eagle]

Has there been any changes made here yet, out of curiosity?

[nova quest]

Nope.

[tribal urchin]

I definitely love the ideas that you're talking about in the original post! The only thing that I might disagree with when it comes to the original post is that I'm not entirely sure about basing matchmaking on your past 5 games, the matchmaking system itself is impossible to balance. Instead of making smurf accounts, they'll feed for 5 games to fight new players for 5 games.

Increasing the amount of games needed to calculate stats would start to feel a bit drab and people would leave before matchmaking put them where they need to be. There would definitely be complaints raining from new players fighting a level 800 who purposely lowered their MMR to get into a new player lobby.

The current matchmaking is seemingly slow and unfair to high level players, though I can't assume their struggles since I'm still pretty new myself (level 46). @wild zealot

[wild zealot]

Firsst of all, I appreciate your opinion very much. The reason why I proposed the last 5 games performance-based matchmaking is for players who are having a bad day and are not performing at their best can at least have a better experience, since I believe you shouldn't be forced to play in a > 2.0 KD lobby just because you played well in the past. If I were to increase the amount of games needed, then I would purposely throw them into whichever lobby there was to kind of 'estimate' their MMR before calibrating them to get the most accurate results, of course this would be unfair for the other players in the lobby but it should just be 1 - 2 games. Again, there is no 'perfect solution' and this is just a cat and mouse game between Wiple and smurfs but I genuinely believe that some options will have less drawbacks than others and they should adopt those systems with us - the players being the main deciders.

[still notch]

Bump

[tiny gulch]

Cause of the Splitparty me and my friends are thinking about to quit the game and search a new shooter game. Cause its not possible to play with friends always against them

[noble lynx]

plutonium cods are doing well

[wild zealot]

sm2 💀

[still notch]

@summer thorn

[wild zealot]

||bump||

[compact eagle]

Lads they're not going to do anything about it, I know it sucks because of how much we love(d) this game but they don't care about their community. My theory is they're trying to encourage new accounts/smurfing so they can buff their numbers and sell the game/IP but idk

[marsh swallow]

Bump

[wild zealot]

bump

[keen mist]

Rather just spam tag the cms maybe that will annoy them enough to deal with this cr ap

[nova quest]

or they'll just remove you from the server

[keen mist]

Not if everyone does it

[mellow goblet]

power in numbers

[wild zealot]

@versed pasture Here is my answer

[versed pasture]

How do you feel a system based solely on recent game performance would improve the situation of long queue times / skill gaps in matches with the same matchmaking pool.

[wild zealot]

1. About long queue times: This isn't something that can be resolved easily since the game has a very small playerbase, I already suggested that just put whoever in queue in the lobby (with the only priority is ping) and try to balance them from there.

2. About skill gaps: As I have mentioned, sometimes if you have a bad day you will not want to play against a sweat lobby, aka a lobby that was based on your performance in a long period of time. If that player performs well in that 'easier' lobby then he will get put in a haarder lobby. I am not necessary against the game's current matchmaking, hate to say this but in Kei's screenshots the game were pretty close (?). The problem again is because we don't have a big enough community for the matchmaking to pick individuals to create a perfectly fair game.

3. Recently I created a new account just to uncover why this was the case. There was a lack of tutorials, the loadouts have missing perks (slot 3 doesn't have any perk at all), all the servers were selected which leads to abnormally high ping players.

[versed pasture]

1. Yes, if the queue time is taking too long, the system will decide to instead just try to get the user into a game asap, regardless of level, recent performance, kd, etc. (The timing for this is constantly being adjusted as users report long queue times, poor matchmaking, etc) But this is what leads to the problem that Keizouku reports where they have lower skilled players in their games. In order to ensure this doesn't happen, the system would have to be more strict and queue times would be longer.

2. Yeah, unfortunately the solution for a lot of these problems requires a larger community. I personally do not believe that matchmaking needs to be incredibly tight, but when there is significant differences between the lowest and the highest skilled players in a match it makes it unenjoyable for both sides.

3. I'll look into some of these issues and the new player experience in general, thanks

[wild zealot]

Just read the article I tagged you with I guess, they explain it pretty well

[versed pasture]

Anything in particular? Taking KD/Level/Recent Performance out of the current matchmaking system would mean that players with large skill discrepancies will get paired up more often than they are now.

[wild zealot]

I'd say take out KD and Level. KD as explained, level doesn't reflect a player's skill really. If they are still complaining you guys can try an anonymous option which hides everything, name, KD, level, etc. so people stop queue dodging and flaming a particular player

[compact eagle]

@versed pasture are there any plans to allowing people to play with their mates yet? I actually think the balancing has now been nailed, just annoying that you still can't play with a friend though haha - I don't even mind if it's random and sometimes you play against eachother and sometimes you don't, but to completely revoke the ability to play with friends is kinda wild

[eternal pulsar]

I Stopped playing because ironsight was one Off the few Games u could Log on Play 3/4 rounds find a nice Person Party Up and Just vibe... Or playing with a member of my clan... That was Always fun and Made my day
Now that those Things are gone every time i start my PC and See the Logo I want Log on, think about the fact i cant even have 1 Mate of my choice, and start an other game

[versed pasture]

Unfortunately I do not have any news on it at the moment sorry

[compact eagle]

Respectfully, how can you not be able to provide an update for a feature that is fundamental to pretty much any multiplayer game ever made, playing with friends?

The balance has been sorted so one can only assume that Wiple have made the decision to not allow people to play together all-together now, shocking way too treat a community that have stood by the game for years whilst it's slowly declined - shame on the devs/whoever is responsible for such abysmal decision making with ZERO TRANSPARENCY

[versed pasture]

I went into a bit more detail here #1225771136411762789 message but in short the change was made to address certain issues with team balance. It was not a decision that was made lightly but one that the team deemed necessary temporarily.

[marsh swallow]

But how come team didnt discuss this with the community and or even reverse it after the backlash it recieved

[astral pecan]

I think it was a decision for the better. Before that change I remember matches getting stomped by strong 3 man parties for multiple, multiple rounds day after Day. Now the game is about how you play solo instead of how you make a squad. My opinion.

[noble lynx]

ive never experienced a single issue with 3 stacks, even in aeriasight it was fine

[summer thorn]

I love how bad this game is.. the whole community is asking for something while the devs says no... anyway... congraits for losing another old player in this game ... aka Imad_RF 😃

Uninstalled, removed from steam, removed my friend list, and left my clan.... gj wiple ! LVL646 with 76k kills on DSR player has quit the game like many others..

I've ZERO interest in playing this game in the future.. simply it doesn't deserve my time!

[compact eagle]

Just go and play xdefiant guys, newly out and wayyyyyyyyyy better + dev team that listens to the community 🙂 no SBMM, a lot to love

[keen mist]

this "temp" update is a race on whether this game drowns or continues to barely keep its head above the water

[mortal sentinel]

Ive never seen any multiplayer game anywhere where you can’t play with your friends. Granted I have none, but the ability would have been nice. Matchmaking is fine, not being able to play with your friends is not. Big L. Just let people play together again, as that’s why people play multiplayer games lmao.

[mortal sentinel]

Tbf Brilson, I believe most of the community just thought the team was messing with matchmaking, not the party system. Changing the party system to not be able to play together was never mentioned and kinda snuck onto us. It felt scummy them and it feels scummy now. Allow people to party up and play again, the damage was severe from this decision. We can all go load up other titles at this point that allow you to play with friends. Get us the party system back, and I can nearly assure you the player count will slowly increase again.

[south minnow]

many already left by now. first battle pass ill not finish since season 4

[noble lynx]

as long as xdefiant doesnt flop, i dont see more than 1-2 more seasons of ironsight left

[neat zenith]

We'll see if the XDef devs fix the supposed problems and if Wiple make any Major changes

[south minnow]

from what ive heard, xdefdevs listening to community. they acknowledge problems and features and try their best. lets see if thats enough tho

[still notch]

It's ubisoft, ofcourse they're gonna listen to community

[south minnow]

i dont mean ubisoft but their xdef dev team...

[keen mist]

No they dont