Elemental faction

[past goblet]

Instead of having the elementals be a one time unlockable, can we have them permanently unlocked as a separate faction, but on par with the power of the dragons? Then have the evolved stages of the elementals be the one time unlocks that are extremely powerful?

Creating to separate factions for players to choose from would add more depth and diversity to the game, and would also create a stronger faction rivalry since you can run into them on the map more often, and fight each other etc. It would also help to foster another sub community of players that want to play the elementals over the dragons; which, given the current player count is an all around positive. Also having them be one time unlocks isn't so great when it comes to their launch day or overall, people will be excited and want to play them, but can't because they have to now unlock them first, which isn't suppose to be easy. That being said, it makes it difficult for the players who want to main them to enjoy the game since they are forced to constantly reunlock them.

[spring ingot]

I thought once unlocked you dont need to unlock them anymore?

Edit:
@past goblet
....thats...Why?? Unless its a simple unlock that seems very tedious...Would you be able to admin restore them if they die?

[past goblet]

Last I checked you had to unlock them, then if it dies, unlock it again. Unless that's changed.

[unique ferry]

I hope we don’t have to constantly reunlock them…..that’s awful.

[limpid spindle]

At the moment the plan is for players having to sacrifice an Elder dragon to unlock a chance to play an elemental. If that Elemental dies, they will have to sacrifice again.

[coarse ledge]

That was the initial idea, the devs have been considering other options for players who would rather play as elementals, with a mind towards how to prevent clans from having members switch to their elementals during clan on clan combat. (As that breaks the "faction" aspect)
Having an account have dragons or elementals saved on a server but not both was briefly floated as a potential idea.

No official announcement on what the final plan will be has been made. Suggestions are very welcome.
[Edit: if yall could avoid ping-replying me inside a suggestion thread, it would be appreciated. It automatically follows me to the thread and means i get a ping for every message sent. Coming back to 5+ pings as a moderator causes a bit of panic]

[spring ingot]

Maybe on Pvp or DVE servers, you cant swap to elementals for so long after being logging into a dragon. Or like vanilla WoW, make you chose the facton. Be elemental or dragon, not both.

[unique ferry]

While that’s fine and all…..this should not be forced on servers people pay for. It should be optional IMO.

There is such a thing as an honor system. If people can’t be expected to follow a basic Rules of Engagement set between two clans, that isn’t entirely on the developers to solve. You cannot account for every single thing and if people want to break Rules of Engagement agreed between two clans, that’s not a developer problem. There is only so much one can do before it starts becoming extremely limiting on what players are allowed to do in their own servers. I’ve never seen any other game try to force this on people.

What you can do is implement a clan vs clan battle system that people have to “opt in” before the engagement begins and once you lose all dragons on your account, you’re done until the end of the round. “Search and destroy” in CoD does something like this if devs are adamant on having a system that solves this. Once you’re dead, you’re done until the end of the round.

Options, and often times less is more. Sure you can force a catered experience on officials per the developer “vision”, this should not be forced on private servers.

[limpid spindle]

Having a switch in timer but having its length be decided by the server owner could work though.
Again, having a setting that lets players auto unlock the Elementals, or unlock them with just one sacrifice also adds that custom element.

[past goblet]

This is why I mentioned tuning their power closer to the dragons, so if they do that it doesn't really give them some sort of advantage. Then have those evolution forms shown a while back be the "raid boss" type elementals these ones are suppose to be. I don't think having accounts being locked to a faction is good for players, it feels anti consumer because it forces people to buy 2 accounts for each faction. This also covers Gemma's point too with having people being locked to a faction; players should be able to freely move between whatever they feel like. I think if they tune them to the same power level as the dragons, and also not allowing them and dragons to group since they are different factions would workout.

@limpid spindle
The problem is that players have to lose something that takes quite some time to acquire. You could use this method for the very powerful one time unlockable ones sure. But just to play a standard elemental seems too much, and I don't think the people who want to main those should have to pay a "price" for it. But of course, they will need to be toned down in power. Having them be tuned to a similar power level to dragons and being on a separate factions that cant group or communicate in game with dragons, and are freely playable might work. This also keeps intact the idea of playing a "raid boss" level creature by using the evolutions of the elementals, instead of the base forms.

[unique ferry]

I can certainly also say if I have to get rid of an elder dragon to play a talking rock, no thanks.

Way too much of a cost for something like that. Elementals should simply be playable as is without cost, much like dragons are currently.

[spring ingot]

Needing to sacrifice an elder to unlock is fine. But only a one time cost.

[limpid spindle]

The fact the Elementals are so slow actually avoids many of the revenge issues. Swapping to them to back up a clan just won't work unless they are stationed at the clan home spot.

This is certainly something that needs to be talked about though. The cost of an Elder is a high price for such a powerful creature and it needs to feel worth it, but we also know players will pile on an Elemental if given a chance and losing it before you have even gotten to play it for an hour would be a nightmare.

Having it toned down and easier to unlock (maybe sacrificing a rare pearl that only Elders can pick up) would make the barrier to enter lower and thus the loss of an elemental less of a hit. This in turn would encourage more people to try the Elementals and not have them be a rare thing everyone wants to try and kill.

[past goblet]

I think, if you've already played the game for a while and have dragons grown, and have pearls collected (depending on how hard they are to get) it's fine. But i'm mainly thinking about a new player, or someone who doesn't want to play the dragons at all. They would be forced into content they may not like, or enjoy. If a new player is drawn into the game by the elementals, I think they'd find it dissapointing when they find out they'd have to put a good amount of time into playing a dragon, in order to unlock and play what they originally intended to. That's why I went for them being unlocked by default, but scaled back in power. So those players that do, just want to play those creatures can do so freely, instead of being pigeon holed into content they don't want to engage with.

[hushed surge]

Could have variations of elemental of shards then true elemental. True elemental more on the behemoth end needing special treatment and shards start small and need to snowball so to speak

[rare mural]

Fully agree with this, this game could use more playable options that dont require a crazy amount of time to unlock in order to play or grow, i think the high cost of mobility works fine

[unique ferry]

This.

I don’t think people fully understand how much speed and mobility matters.

The elementals can’t fly and are going to be hindered by that.

I don’t think they need a full sacrifice. This game needs far less time gated stuff hindering people.

[rare mural]

BIG BIG AGREE
Elders are already barely worth the time, I’m not going to play the game if 80% of the content takes 3 months to get to, especially if they can’t move. It’s a HUGE reason that the Shadow gets so many balance complaints, it’s just too good at moving compared to everything else. At this rate we’re gonna sacrifice a month-long process just to obtain a creature that sounds like its gonna get potshotted for 5-10 minutes, cant do anything about it, and then die. Brood is already in that position, last I heard, and IT can still fly.

[unique ferry]

Fly…..yet can’t attack in the sky and takes a ridiculous amount of stamina and aiming a ranged attack from the ground that is extremely slow, very limited range, and the projectile does not match the damage marker that actually strikes people.

Yeah…it doesn’t need a sacrifice. I hope when the time comes for the live Q&A people actually stop him from making it require a sacrifice. I know he doesn’t read any of these (he literally admitted it indirectly in a Q&A).

[coarse ledge]

[Informational]
The developers do read the suggestion threads. Jao has previously explained his process during devstreams/qnas, and he typically reads them when switching tasks (i.e. he'll wait until he's done with a current task) and will search by subject when starting a new task (example, when starting to rebalance a specific dragon he will open the feedback threads to see what players are saying about that specific dragon)

Jao's job is coding the game, and he is focused on that. He will not have a constently up to date copy of the feedback threads memorized in his head during a qna. This means comments such as "ill have to read that one" when questioned about the feedback threads on a subject he was not immediately working on during a qna are common. This is not because he doesnt read them, but because it may be a subject he read a few months ago, before his current topic, or something that emerged recently in the threads and he hasnt yet had the time to read it in depth, and is not prepared to offer commentary on it.

The devs do read these threads, and it will often be re-read when work beguins on that topic.

[past goblet]

Thank you for clearing that up.