Nerfing SS with the dragon made to counter it. (The correct way to counter SS)

[woven python]

The over nerfing of the SS is uncalled for, as makes so many people upset so here's a better way in doing it without touching the cloak ability.

ASD, ''Acid Spitter Drake'' (class 3) is the prey item of the SS and so the games balanced around that class rule set.. the cloak lets the SS hunt the ASD while staying elusive...
SS ''Shadowscale'' is a class 4, just nerf it with its main predator the FS ''flamestalker'' (class 5 dragon) heat vision even more.

(As jao said multiple times ''that's why the FS exists'' during QnA's) (stated the Flamestalker is the counter to shadowscale or any cloaking dragon or drake so why not make it the full real on HARD counter as its meant to be?)

make the FS heat vision last with a toggle button instead of a timer.. make it like the range of night vision without a stamina drain you don't need to directly nerf a shadow scales cloak function to make it ''weaker'' just make the FS heat vision more reliable.. like make it see SS at render range if it activates heat sense (no stam drain on activate too makes SS harder to slip away making the ss have to rely on being elusive in its description), that alone would be enough of a counter, you buff the FS certain ability you don't need to over nerf the ss. (if you want it to have a said drawback.. make it so stam cant be recovered until its turned off, Or like the screenies only the SS light up at very further away distances/within render that are cloaked or uncloaked)

In the end it will make the SS ''shadowscale'' more elusive and be a lot more uneasy if a FS ''Flamestalker'' is near by, you wont need to over nerf the SS ''shadowscale'' and make its cloaking ability worthless as you WANT players to use its toolkit.

[indigo pecan]

THIS !! more abilities need to be separated from Stamina !! It's very annoying and quite frankly not a great way to balance these dragons

[lyric gyro]

yo always Im using cloaking before fly I cry bc of loosing stamina ... and even during fight u need to have stamina if u wanna escape and taking stamina for cloaking I see dumm

[woven python]

Yep.. No stam consuming abilitys is really needed.. Since stam is your life blood >>

[lyric gyro]

Yesss 🙌🏻

[junior hare]

dont do fs heatscan to full render distance do it to like half render distance because render distance is pretty far

[woven python]

Well you have the other dragons coming that wont be seen from the heat sense.. You know the cold ones... And the mix breed ones...

[junior hare]

Yes but render distance is too OP

[muted rock]

I agree, render distance is WAY too far for heat vision, i think it really just needs to take less stamina while flying

[restive pasture]

Are they adding other hybrids too? Cuz I only know of the dravern… And I thought that was the only one…

[woven python]

Mix breeding makes hybrids.. So look at the species and let your mind run wild. To make the Drayvern a FS and IR sleep with each other..

@muted rock or yeet the stam requirements in general in a videogame where stam can end your life if you use it for redundant mechanics.. Has 20 ss on your butt you can cloak but it will kill ya cause you drain stam every second for a cloak that is not fuctional.. (Current ss can get away with its cloak). Like consuming stam for a class that lives and breaths on being not seen cause glass.. I just believe stam should never be used for abilities connected to a class of dragon. Prevent stam regen? Yeah that be a better idea.. But drain 25% or 5% of stam to keep it on or turn it on? No thank you ability wont be used lol

@junior hare for only a single dragon if they are cloaked forever id say its not as op.. Maybe cant detect hatchlings that are cloaked would be a good drawback.. Or cant see hatchlings in general idk.. Or when the dragon with cloak turned on can be seen.. At further distances idk..

@indigo pecan yes exactly... In a game again stam dictates life and death..

[white thorn]

Mixed breeds? Where's that coming from? They don't have the capacity to make models for all possible combinations of breeds..Ive never heard of that

[fleet lagoon]

The flame stalker vision is already being boosted a bit. It’s going to be a longer toggle and the blackscreen at start and end is going away. It will take less stamina altogether too. But i agree with your points. Though as long as the shadow scale can avoid loosing stamina while not moving i’ll be content. If they’re crouched it’d be nice if they could regain stamina like they could in legacy

[ancient pawn]

are cold dragons not going to be visible with heat sense? I would expect them to be equally visible since they're likely colder than their environment (in the case of ice dragons they would probably be very visible with heat vision from notable lack of heat, comparable to fire dragons)

[woven python]

Lol its not going to be used if you need to keep pressing the button and you always able to regen stam when you used heat sense.. Play legacy.. If your in a fight and you press heat sense and it consumes your stam and now you dont have enough anymore then well your dead lol just how it is in pvp you waate stam you die..

@ancient pawn cold animals dont show up in heat sense.. If rl has Anything to say about it.

[restive pasture]

I don’t think they are adding more then the Dravern into to official game I could be wrong but still

[ancient pawn]

cold blooded animals show up less on thermal images (which presumably heat sense would be similar to) because they have similar temperatures to their surroundings, but they still show up. and cold things like ice (and surely ice dragons) definitely show up because they have different heat from their surroundings. not sure what you're referring to, but saying cold things don't show on heat sense is like saying people can't see shadows because eyes only see light. eyes don't technically see anything from shadows or darkness, but the absense of light is very clearly visible so they're still visible

edit: you can just google for a thermal image of ice if you want, I imagine that's about what a ice dragon would look like with thermal sense

[wet zenith]

Did they nerf SS cloak 💀

I hard agree with this though. It's a good balance.

FS can bypass SS cloak sneak but is slower/less agile than SS.

SS can counter ASD speed and venom with cloaked sniping, but can't keep up with ASD in a chase and ASD can easily hide.

Nerfing SS cloak is not 'just' nerfing SS, it throws off the whole balance of the 3 by simultaneously making them even easier prey for FS -and- making ASD better at avoiding/ambushing them.

Not to mention negating the SS's main combat strategy vs all other creatures.

I feel like including Stam sinks just to add additional complications for combat isn't fun.

I get Stam drain for active attacks but heat vision and cloak plus no Stam regen just feels like needless complexity that is just there to artificially inflate the skill ceiling of playing those dragons.

[woven python]

And as jao said the class tree is the Balance of the game a SS should be terrified of a class 5.. Even more so from the fact that jao really tells everyone during QnA's the fs is the Apex of the SS altogether.. ''that's why the fs exists''

but atm the fs heat visions still worthless.. it needs to be toggled.. like a night vision.. and you wont need to nerf anything about the SS at all.. whining about a dragon isn't going to make it fun.. just counter play it.. and yes nerfing ss directly going to make the ss a lot worse since we got the blitz that can just venom bite dragons and stun them out of the sky.. were is the ss going to sneak up on a blitz if it cant do that anymore..

ss cloak is its toolkit.. fs heat is its toolkit.. its not that hard to do like at all..

[vague heath]

The whole thing with T4 being terrified of T5 falls apart pretty much instantly when you apply Player Experience to the T4 vs the T5.
Overall, yes, a T4 should be -very very- careful about 1 v 1 ing a bigger dragon, but it is still theoretically possible, much like how prey animals in reality at times beat their predators in some peculiar situations (i.e. water buffalo vs Lions.)

FS Heat Vis definitely needs an upgrade, but this kinda feels to me like overtuning it too hard the opposite direction.

[woven python]

It don't...its not about real life. allow me to explain why..
matter its what jao said that's the balance has nothing to do with real life XD its based on class balance always will be in these sort of games.. if someone made the same game with the same balance it wouldn't matter its the intended way how the game works.. People already seen what a rock paper scissor gameplay is like.. its not fun.. rip IR.. it was even worse on the alpha..

so no the ''falls apart'' comment don't fall apart if anything it strengthens it.. Cause also we have evidence.. shown here.. Its the intended way for the game.. bio gets nommed by asds, asds get nommed by ss, food chain continues from there..

So basically its not the isle or a real life sim.. its Fantasy with intended game balance.

[muted rock]

I dont really think the focus should be so much on “they should be “terrified”” that doesnt. Work in a game like this. Especially when you have teams with all sorts of dragons in them fighting each other, there’s no ‘fear’ factor to anything, i dont understand your point?

Its starting to sound like you’re pushing for Stalkers to be completely undefeatable by anything lower than its class, which isnt fun either. Dragons should have their niches, it shouldnt be a rock paper scissors situation. If i wanted to play a game with that I wouldnt be playing a survival game.

[ancient pawn]

I'm not sure how applicable a message from 3 years ago is, but I'm pretty sure that 1. the game doesn't follow that logic rn, and 2. that type of design wouldn't work well for this type of game. designing the game like that means largely removing the impact of skill as much as possible, to the extent that uneven battles can't be won through skill difference even with a very large difference. so basically turning the game into a strategy type game where the only strategy is that if you pick a low tier class you can't win against anything. I think everyone who wants to play a species that isn't the highest tier would be upset with that kind of design because it would mean they lose against everything unless they team with stronger dragons as well (who then do all of the work for them). it makes sense for dragons to have situations where they have advantage and situations where they have disadvantage, so a complete rock paper scissors isn't great, but a linear tier based class system where you just pick which tier you want to be is way worse. so I feel like even if the dev said that 3 years ago, it's probably not going to actually go exactly that way because it wouldn't be fun for anyone to just have to pick the strongest dragon to be able to compete with anything. there would at least have to be some very strong incentive to play weaker dragons for that to work

[fickle shell]

I know the heat vision is based off how snakes see the world but relating it to in game, no matter the distance it renders it's either going to be OP or useless, I don't think there will be a middle ground, especially with the trees and rocks that aren't seen in Heat Vision until you crash into them. I'd say alter the visions filter so that it's still usable.

[restive pasture]

Heat vision only last for like 5 seconds and no more

[fickle shell]

In the future update it will be on until you want it turned off. Soooo