so i doubt it
#lore-discussion-spoilers
plush moon
violet pagoda
It was likely the prayers of humanity that did it. They craved divine intervention to keep them from dying of starvation or drowning or civil war, but as a result of the elders' absence, the war happened.
At the heart of a lot of issues is human greed and human need.
plush moon
those are interesting ideas - and the bit about craving divine intervention does fit with murals showing them praying to the stars and collecting them (maybe those were blessings)
i think that the elders stayed with them to the end
the war was caused by them and led to their downfall
violet pagoda
Yeah. The opening cinematic did also say "If only they knew." It's easy to fill in the blank there with "If only they knew their prayers would lead to a greater threat" or "If only they knew their assistance would cause these humans greater calamity."
plush moon
as for human greed that fits in with the production of power diamonds - yea
violet pagoda
Humanity meddling with powers they can't control or understand and ultimately being destroyed by them is a tale as old as time.
plush moon
i think they did understand to an extent what they were creating - power diamonds are well powerful so powerful that it exploded everything - however, as we see across the realms, especially in the vault, we see them skillfully use power diamonds
so i think is unfair to simply say they were ignorant
wide root
Technically the eye of eden is a diamond, right?
plush moon
i want to understand why they decided to create such a large one though
violet pagoda
It could be the classic Lucifer dilemma. They wanted to become equal to or greater than the elders, or even the megabird.
plush moon
yea some of us said it like that
wide root
The call for godlike power
plush moon
we compared it to the bible
wintry island
When we refer to humans, we are referring to the spirits? (Clarifying question sorry)
plush moon
i wonder what was the role of magic... and in the valley we see those rotating gold disk thing
violet pagoda
Yeah
plush moon
yes - dead humans 😉
wide root
Magnetism
wintry island
Ok, ty
wide root
Rotating disks, remember?
violet pagoda
I think the role of magic varied from zone to zone depending on the elder.
plush moon
someone called it something i forgot
i think that valley and the vault showed this most visibly because they had concentrations of scholars
but isle and priarie are less developed than for say wasteland, valley, and vault
violet pagoda
Yeah
plush moon
as for hidden forest it's in the middel
wide root
What is magic anyway?
plush moon
ikr? i want to link it to power diamonds
but maybe these spirits connected with megabird
violet pagoda
Probably a gift from the elders. Constellations gift you harmless spells, after all.
plush moon
and gained abilities similar to others.
i don't think it's from the elders then why doesn't everyone have awesome powers?
i remember the vault had graves - maybe these were test subjects?
violet pagoda
Because when they saw the humans were getting greedy with the power diamonds, they started trying to retract their gifts---to no avail.
plush moon
Because when they saw the humans were getting greedy with the power diamonds, they started trying to retract their gifts---to no avail.
@violet pagoda i don't think so after all they created the huge one
violet pagoda
Maybe. That could also be an entire elder.
plush moon
for the krills there's a theory that those are mantas corrupted by darkness plants - large ones - they were deliberately trapped so that they could be used in the war as weapons
i think that megabird was loyal to them up to the end and when darkness came he still was loyal and tried to help them (see ark)
violet pagoda
Oohhhh
plush moon
i don't think the elders bestow gifts - megabird does - i think the elders act more like demigods with massive power and strength - like symbols
there's another theory that the elders wanted to return to megabird
wide root
Elders are still remnants of human beings
plush moon
kinda they are symbols of their respective realms but not human (literally constellation with indiviudal spirits as stars to form the picture of the realm symbol) - they came from where megabird is
wide root
Maybe they were important people in the history
plush moon
i don't think so...some seem very average like the crying emote and the waving emote
i think they just represent the different aspects of the daily life in each realm
plush moon
errr not ringing any bells
wide root
Yes i mean the 6 elders in the 6 realms
plush moon
alrighty yea they seem important
@hushed steeple did u see what i wrote about the child of light - at first i thought i wasn't that bad - then i proved myself wrong
violet pagoda
Yeah
Yeah
I was thinking those guys---the big guys we see in the cutscenes in the temple---THEY bestow gifts. Not the spirits inside the constellations.
plush moon
err how?
wide root
By using "magic"
plush moon
the problem i see is that why they didn't do that to everyone
wide root
You know?
violet pagoda
Again, they did, but when they saw humans getting greedy they tried to pull back.
wide root
Because they are not generous!
plush moon
i think they were greedy
it seems absurd that the humans can build a humongous power diamond and they couldn't do anything
i think they actually supported them
wide root
They did one thing
violet pagoda
That's where my theory about the diamond in Eden having an entire Elder trapped inside comes in.
"Oh, you don't want to give us gifts anymore? We'll take them ourselves."
violet pagoda
I tried to tell it but we got distracted slkdfjlk
plush moon
the humans do certainly seem to worship the elders -- they have temples and monuments
and ppl light the candles and pray
violet pagoda
And yet the temple of Eden is in the sky. Is that because of the war? Or is it a metaphorical "Return to sender" because of human megalomania?
wide root
It’s just an enormous power diamond wich display an uncontrollable energy and in wich amounts of it are scattered across the landscape
plush moon
there's no battlefield in eden....that's in wasteland only
wide root
There is remnants of an industry in eden
plush moon
so yea big bang be gone
wide root
And a temple....
That use candles...
That’s litteraly weird in that there is no sign of electricity despite scattered enormous pipes made of metal and that waste pollution
plush moon
power diamonds are the electricity...but i think candles are like a tradition and the diamonds are too recent and too expensive
ik but that wording is open to being interpreted to be worship. worship sustains them
maybe the candles are like giving light to their souls? like we do?
wide root
Maybe the diamonds are more like an unstable battery
plush moon
the small ones are stable they still work
plush moon
i don't like them 🙂
wide root
They still do light
plush moon
maybe the darkness cloud's version of rain
we have only seen blue ones being created....
and in eden they seem to come from the sky in waves
we have seen the blue diamonds being created stone + light
wide root
The same blues crystals are found on petrified soliders in front of eden’s temple
plush moon
not to mention that the size of the red crystal varies
plush moon
yea now that i think about it red crystals are prob corrupted power diamonds
wide root
Or part of eden’s diamond
plush moon
like the eden crystal, orginally blue, turned red to show negative light - it consumes light bc the light in it was not enough to sustain it maybe
why do u think a normal power diamond can't do that?
wide root
Is it to me that u are saying that?
plush moon
?
wide root
I mean, to who are you adressing to
plush moon
the boop
wide root
...
plush moon
oof sorry i'll use quotes...
The same blues crystals are found on petrified soliders in front of eden’s temple
@wide root i don't remember that
wide root
Next time you will go there, take a close look at the statues in front of eden’s temple (in front of the area were there is at least 10 stars in it)
There is blue crystals that are on them
plush moon
OH i don't remember that but the soldier part confused me - what if those were robots 😮
can they make robots?
plush moon
that would be so awesome - escort me plz
wide root
If power crystal are in some sort a battery of "magic", they could have done human replicas
(Robots)
plush moon
we seem like robots lol
plush moon
yea but we haven't seen it plus the point seems to be about nature and saving it
i doubt it see when we ascend to eden we glow yellow not blue
wide root
Hello, "magic" exists...
plush moon
yea most diamonds would be ok with a small flame - but not that one it needs mroe
Hello, "magic" exists...
@wide root we haven't seen it go that far
or at least i haven't but it seems to revolve around floating
wide root
Creating fireworks by overpowering the laws of physics...
Creating atoms outta nowhere
plush moon
uhhh i need to go back to sky
wait a minute do the emojis include the new season
yea it does right it has the crab
wide root
And also they used catapults in the war...
plush moon
and more boats and barricades so def human vs human
wide root
They used used the catapults to lauch boats into the barricades
plush moon
eh better than cannons
wide root
Exactly!
plush moon
in all seriousness tho why does it seem like the battlefield wasn't cleaned up - like did the eden thing happen during the war?
was it supposed to win the war :0
plush moon
hey there's no more war
plush moon
the krills were in the mess
however that doesn't explain why the wasteland elder has a light shield and diamond shield
wide root
.... maybe because they never have found the recipe for gunpowder
In an never-ending medival-like war
plush moon
their ww1 lol
wide root
The medieval age occured because of people using religion to control others
plush moon
in all seriousness that doesn't add up? and the elder seemed to leave his spear behind at the first level
wide root
And also remember all the pollution
plush moon
what's ur take?
wide root
Idk
plush moon
we got some theories on that - i don't remember who it belongs to
wide root
Maybe it’s the crystal’s corruption that made the land unlivable and thus killed everyone
plush moon
.-. points at priarie
wide root
I conclude that we need a time-travelling mech
plush moon
power diamonds vs light (creatures)
plush moon
wasteland is the industrial center - main producer of power diamonds, even before forest. they started using light creatures to make more diamonds (see skeletons) - angered those who believed that those light creatures (mega mantas prob) should be respected > war
the agreement was supposedly butterflies (from prarie) and small mantas (as seen in forest, small mantas being released from captivity in the temple)
wide root
And the birds?
plush moon
not sure by evolutionary light creature theory they would turn to butterflies - from isle (birds) to priarie (butterflies)
wide root
Ah right there is no sign of it
wide root
That’s kind of cruel: killing a creature that just wanted to help you
plush moon
anyways that's the faction theory - eden was probably with the diamond faction
shhhhhhhhh
that's the point but it's kinda a sacrifice - and it's an established practice - the priarie economy seems to revolve around shipping
butterflies are expendable. small mantas? kinda. mega mantas? no
tbh i'm unsure about eden part of the diamond faction - maybe there was a secret alliance?
wide root
Or just a third faction
plush moon
vault and eden were neutral but then it was revealed later that they were into power diamonds
yea that's where the wastleand power diamonds went to but they didn't want to be involved with the war
so maybe the third neutral faction included valley, vault, and eden
that makes sense honestly - though it's an inconvenience it's better than to risk their destruction in war
they would rather be independent and focus on cultivating their technology in peace
wide root
Or a group of regilious, homicidal psychopaths with dark powers
plush moon
yes this looks homicidal 
plush moon
.-.
wide root
Wait, no
plush moon
it's all ages.... not primitive ofc
wide root
In the medieval times of history (not in the game) the church had control above all, even knowledge and power
plush moon
then that stopped and so did we - taking bout lore
wide root
Maybe it’s a conspiracy
ember temple
:0
wide root
That a religious group of psychos controlled the two sides, beliving that they must destroy humanity in order to satisfy their "god"
That kinda makes a lot of sense
plush moon
.-.
Wow never heard that yet
But they are part of humanity
how would they benefit?
they still require resources
wide root
If someone controls the knowledge....
wide root
Its on topic
plush moon
what's the point of controlling the knowledge if u gonna have the other half of the population killing each other
plush moon
hmm....but they didn't seem to use that power or money to invade the other realms? :0 or were they gonna do that in eden
wide root
And people that will always obey
plush moon
lmao this so dark
wide root
This makes so much sense!
plush moon
uhhh someone help us i feel like we're making an edgy headcanon
jk why invade other realms?
wouldn't that spread out their energy and people thinly
plush moon
so it's a longterm investment...
wide root
That sells products to both main factions of the war, while spreading their temples far and wide
plush moon
And people that will always obey
@wide root also don't say that ever again and i've been to reddit and read this before but in essay form - it just causes me pain not laughter
plush moon
i've been to places u haven't seen
plush moon
ANYWAYS maybe they wanted to unite the kingdom - since it seems sectional tensions would have existed for a while
their beliefs didn't suddenly appear out of nowhere
wide root
Do you know what is schizophrenia?
plush moon
i'm talking about ideologies NOT MENTAL ILLNESSes
unless u r implying that an elder is mentally ill
ah meet u there
plush moon
maybe the king was sick that's why he couldn't get a hold on the other elders...
wide root
I never saw a king
Nor a proof of it
Maybe it’s democracy
But in modern times religion still exists
plush moon
lol this game's a simulator for the end of democracy - giant shrimp will krill u
it makes sense for the king to be dead since we don't see his temple - maybe he died.....
but i doubt it...
wide root
Still there is no lore about a king
plush moon
OH the opening scene in isle showed a star falling on eden
the stars represent elders - devs
wide root
Maybe the spirits and the elders are just hallucinations
plush moon
wait a minute... the star of eden resembles the person in the middle of the constellations before
wide root
Or they are all members of the cult that destroyed civilisation
plush moon
:0 what does that mean...then that is the king elder or...mega bird
wide root
I am not a troll, i am real
plush moon
u r a lobster stop it
wide root
My icon is a lobster
plush moon
anyways what's the likelihood then that the king is dead
wide root
Or never existed
plush moon
yup
then we need to explain what is that person in the vision
this talk is suprisingly good i thought about stuff i didn't come close to before
wide root
Maybe the last human on earth
The only that knew the truth
Remember that nearly the entire planet can’t be accessed
It’s like finding a needle in a pile of clouds
plush moon
i think it's megabird :V
wide root
Probably
plush moon
i do think that the person in the center is the king....not megabird....
plush moon
how is it the orbit? heaven u mean?
def not a power diamond it existed before the civilization prospered...
and it came from the sky in that case it's not a power diamond
wide root
I am talking about 2 different things; do not fuse them both!
plush moon
eh i was asking what u meant by orbit
then i said how i disagreed with the star being a power diamond
wide root
|| the place that u go when you die: that’s the orbit ||
It is not eden’s power diamond
plush moon
oh i just called it heaven
wide root
Whatever
plush moon
but how would the orbit be in the clouds when we go up there and it's clearly in space?
wide root
What happen when there is a massive LED sun that is floating in the atmosphere?
You can definitely see it
plush moon
no i don't
wide root
Use sunglasses, you will be able to better see it
plush moon
bruh it's 3rd person
plush moon
lol screenshot and hang it up
wide root
We both know that there is no sunglasses in the game
plush moon
our eyes are the sun glasses - twin glass of sun
plush moon
translation: our eyes are LEDs
wide root
Ahhh that makes sense
plush moon
i think they came from wasteland...the map shows they are nearby and the krill are attracted to the eden crystal....maybe
a love story
wide root
Ciaow
Technically they are bad at camouflage
They emit lights that is clearly visible, are loud and also moves nonstop
plush moon
They emit lights that is clearly visible, are loud and also moves nonstop
@wide root yes that's why I put the emoji XD. They aren't stealthy either
wide root
Those things are scattered everywhere
Still i do not know why, but i have this impression that it is supposed to mean something
plush moon
It's always supposed to mean something 
wide root
Easter egg?
plush moon
It ain't easter
plush moon
The one for the second looks like it has stones in the circle
wide root
The second has stone indeed
plush moon
Third one too
wide root
The third is the second, reversed on the y-axis and without stones
The "stone" in the third is just a spirit
plush moon
Maybe it's like a star map...
cobalt palm
I always thought the one in valley and nests in prairie look a little like the birds
plush moon
The "stone" in the third is just a spirit
@wide root look below it?
wide root
Lemme just a minute to prove it
plush moon
Oof
cobalt palm
Yeah it's the same constellation in nests and citadel, and both create light fragments, nests when you sit and 3 others are around, and citadel has the manta call spirit
Here are the 4 spots where you can sit to generate the old light fragment quest
cobalt palm
I even did a vid in the villages area https://youtu.be/NNrS0BpQVVM
plush moon
Doesn't it look like there's a stone under it?
cobalt palm
@wide root that floating rock above the constellation is the darkness at the center of the manta call spirit
plush moon
@wide root that floating rock above the constellation is the darkness at the center of the manta call spirit
@cobalt palm he knows..
wide root
Indeed there is a rock
plush moon
Wait so it's like there to start a quest?
plush moon
...home as a similar rock circle the shape is a cape
What about the light fragment quest
plush moon
Here are the 4 spots where you can sit to generate the old light fragment quest
@cobalt palm
wide root
The 3 circles represent the 3 bells
cobalt palm
Check the vid, https://youtu.be/NNrS0BpQVVM
plush moon
Oh ok
wide root
I don’t think it has a link with the other stuff
Ok
I said nothing
It may be linked
I apologize for thinking it was a lie
cobalt palm
All of them appear to be related to fragments of light, except the 5 pointed one in villages, but we know from earlier betas this was moved, and was originally where the manta constellation us now.
wide root
So you are saying it was a design failure?
Or that they didn’t removed it for some dark reason?
cobalt palm
They are constantly experimenting with stuff in beta, it may have been too hard for the area, not fitting, or the designer or developer just didn't like it so changed it.
wide root
So why they did not removed it?
plush moon
To torture us
cobalt palm
Probably an oversight, like the old forest social space is still there and parts of old wasteland social
cobalt palm
There are loads of oob stuff clearly not meant to be there
No, im purely talking about stuff in live
plush moon
:0 they should give us blue capes
cobalt palm
I'm just giving justification of designs as we saw in very early beta versions
plush moon
So it's an underdeveloped game concept
exotic shuttle
no harm in leaving it there
cobalt palm
The mushrooms somehow made it into Ark unintentionally
plush moon
But why those shapes
cobalt palm
wide root
THIS IS A CONSPIRACY
exotic shuttle
tgc was prototyping a feature involving mushrooms and accidentally left some mushrooms lying around in the game
they’ll be removed in the next update
wide root
I bet this is no accident
cobalt palm
Tbh IMHO, it went live, therefore becomes canon
wide root
?
plush moon
Lmao with no lore to justify it
wide root
What do IMHO stands for?
cobalt palm
There is some lore... Look at the memories of the playfight spirit
@wide root in my humble opinion
wide root
In the valley?
cobalt palm
The playfight spirit is in the Forgotten Ark in wasteland
plush moon
How does this relate to the forest mushrooms
wide root
So mushrooms do exist in the game, just the ones that we collect aren't really supposed to be there
@stark marten or so we think that they aren’t supposed to there...
plush moon
I wonder if they gave off light
wide root
Because they are bioluminescent
cobalt palm
@wide root we know they weren't, as Ktjn said so
cold steppe
for what reason?
wind bone
No it’s definitely not intended and it’s being removed next patch lol
plush moon
cold steppe
and that isn't one
warm fern
so people are getting candles from something that isn’t meant to be there? is that considered to be gameplay abuse?
wide root
What?
cold steppe
not really
wind bone
The devs are taking ownership of the mistake and aren’t going to punish ppl for it
cold steppe
the devs are allowing it for now
wind bone
It’s only a few candles to get anyway
Different from the bug that let ppl get unlimited candles
wide root
Is the mushrooms gives free candles?!
wide root
All started with...
Those stuff
Lore or pieces of a mastermind’s ultimate secret?
Who knows
crimson grove
Sometimes the quests get triggered, but they are inactive and will fail in seconds
cobalt palm
You get a nice smoky head
😉 🌥
sly kestrel
It is jus that
crimson grove
You could theorize about what they used to mean when they were in the game, but it's unlikely it's still relevant
Some things are just that, concepts that didn't really work
sly kestrel
Remember when sea turtles were a thing 😭
plush moon
Island turtles..
wide root
But hey, it is suspicious that some of them still works
plush moon
With merchants riding them...
crimson grove
It's just a bug
sly kestrel
I honestly forgot my beta days but I could tell a lot of the extra quest stuff wasn’t rlly needed, but it was fun while it lasted
plush moon
@sly kestrel what's ur opinion on the person surrounded by constellations in the isle vision
plush moon
Ik just asking
cobalt palm
brazen solstice
mmmm i think the mushroom is food commodity
cobalt palm
Crab and mushroom stew does sound good
brazen solstice
but mushroom considered as premium food (or idk the other words) because you can use it to convert to candle
wide root
What’s the story of the sea turtles?
brazen solstice
just like meat irl but in the older times, it was expensive
plush moon
There's a skull on wasteland that looks like a turtle skull its just inspired by a turtle skull not one
crimson grove
There used to be quests (the ones you would activate on the spots you sent screenshots above) that upon completion, a turtle spirit would appear and give you a candle. It was removed from the game shortly after, and I believe the devs said it didn't make a lot of sense with the rest of the sky lore
brazen solstice
......... Turtle Call in future? 👀
wide root
In fact, it could be easily explained
If mushrooms truly existed in beta, and knowing that some mushrooms have hallucinogen properties wen consumed...
cold steppe
no
brazen solstice
is white mushrooms
cold steppe
TGC definitely would not put hallucinogens in the plot
plush moon
brazen solstice
Wren, r u the last baby praire?
cold steppe
they're very against violence in game
cobalt palm
They probably wouldn't put manta torture in there either
plush moon
cobalt palm
But lore gunna lore
cold steppe
oh, I rejoined the jelly baby club
wide root
Turtle spirits...
It fits perfectly in a world where there is giant, bloodthirty krills
And diamonds that holds limitless power
plush moon
I would like to see the turtle chomp on the krill
wide root
Maybe turtles would be like the whales
Having the name of an other animal
Unless they really were turtles?
plush moon
wide root
This is literally a coelacanth
With the head cut and replaced by some sort of other head
And why they do not chomp the krills?
Wait
We all know why
subtle fog
How did krills appear?
wide root
That would literally destroy the game
plush moon
RELEVANT LORe QUESTION
wide root
HEY
exotic shuttle
maybe they already ate the small krills and only the big krills are left 
wide root
WE ALREADY DISSCUSSED IT
plush moon
That's what happens on the lore channel
wide root
Reincarnation
plush moon
I repeated the war theory like 3 times it's seared into my mind
wide root
This is getting too suspicious
plush moon
How did krills appear?
@subtle fog corrupted mega manta
subtle fog
:o
plush moon
It's a theory tho but y'know today's seasonal quest - a manta was trapped in a darkness plant . Ppl trapped mantas in that to create weapons for war
And the krill seek light bc they want to turn back
wide root
Were is the dam thing?
subtle fog
they dont really- take your winged light away though
plush moon
They take ur flame..
subtle fog
oh true
plush moon
That's why u turn gray
wide root
Were is the trapped manta?
subtle fog
but they also knock away your winged light and don't pick it up
wide root
Nothing to grab something (aka hands or pincers)
Do they have a box collider?
Because if not they can’t even grab it
Also if krills are corrupted mantas, that means that they are cannibal towards normal mantas
cold steppe
I think krills and crabs are naturally dark, like mantas and others are naturally light
plush moon
but they also knock away your winged light and don't pick it up
@subtle fog Oh i got it it's bc they can't see it - i explained before that winged lights are souls that we restore to the eden children. they can't see these formless beings but we can bc it's our purpose to get wings and give light
subtle fog
ohh that makes sense! Thanks
plush moon
see @wide root that wasn't so bad neither are mantas
plush moon
so what r u thinking about
wide root
How magic works
sly kestrel
Ur questioning how magic works in a fantasy game of dreams 😳
wide root
Hey
plush moon
bruh have faith in the devs - they prob didn't put magic in for lolz
sly kestrel
Hi 
plush moon
maybe i should check the spirits using magic maybe they are using mini power diamonds
wide root
Maybe the essence of the spirit is captured within pieces of power diamonds
plush moon
then that's a problem of the power diamond killing u
the best death
the telekinesis spirit has some kind of headdress - the memory seems to show it sparkle - but it's very subtle
plush moon
but every vault person seems to have it
wide root
The headdress?
plush moon
yes so it's more indicative of a vault scholar
yet the prayer emote orginates from there - maybe it implies some kind of worship?
plush moon
i think it's of megabird - if it was just a religion then that doesn't explain their powers - however if the god were to exist that would explain it
plus it makes sense - the fascination with stars (the rotating disks in valley)- as we see in concept art - megabird is there above eden - perhaps they were studying him?
wide root
Maybe
plush moon
the elder has the headdress
wide root
Or is it another way to show how much the religion had an influence on its people
Indeed
We can have it too
plush moon
lol i won't have it anytime soon
plush moon
but the vault scholars seem to have a unique fascination with light - they tried to replicate it thru a code language like dna
wide root
Where does that comes from?
plush moon
they prob created it
that's their purpose i suppose
maybe they altered their own dna
and we see the graves - test subjects maybe
however we only see them create light creatures - so maybe their purpose was to create a replacement for wasteland
wide root
Nah there is nobody left after the war
wide root
Nah there is nobody left after the war
@wide root or so we tough...
So the wasteland was pollued before the war?
plush moon
maybe they started running out of mega mantas or the vault ppl knew this would happen and tried to make light creatures of their own
of course this is a big project and is time consuming
wide root
Too long to fit in a lifetime
plush moon
yes and during this time people started experimenting on themselves with varying results...
have u ever thought about why the vault elder has a scar?
plush moon
.-. why would it be paint?
plush moon
yknow now it makes sense for the vault to be neutral - they seem to be very connected to the other elders as their historian or magician or scientist - but the vault is sort of a secluded location...
she also seems like a gentle and quiet person
idk their gender tbh
wide root
I tough it was a men
wide root
I am sure that the vault worked with the religious group
Well they are in a castle
Or is it a temple
plush moon
what religious group
plush moon
.-.
wide root
Really?
plush moon
i think u made it sound like the vault and the religous group are two different groups
aren't the vault scholars religious?
wide root
That’s exactly what i meant
plush moon
their outfit seems to remind me of priests and magicians with long and flowing robes
a very simple design
and u see in the vault - constructed environments like flying islands, flowers, and even a tree
wide root
Why would someone put floating island in a closed area?
plush moon
that's their world ig
i saw the levitation spirit meditating on top of one
that's like where they relax
sly kestrel
Wha about it?
plush moon
yeah that's what I was talking about - the levitation spirit's place
sly kestrel
What’s the topic on the meditation emote? Did u guys find something?
plush moon
the vault about their religion, magic, environment
plush moon
?
plush moon
? i guess more decoration - if u can't go there
wide root
It looks like some sort of summoning thing
Like you pray on one island and something will pop up on the other
novel kettle
someone left some theory in here based on the emotes in the specific realms
imma find the message link rq
they got vault and GW down but yeah
https://discordapp.com/channels/575762611111592007/632004389137154048/707105327883223100
hushed steeple
The medieval age occured because of people using religion to control others
@wide root uh no
wide root
@wide root uh no
@hushed steeple tell us what is it then
hushed steeple
First you have to decide what you're trying to say. What are you talking about specifically with the medieval period?
wide root
So that’s what u think it is?
hushed steeple
Your argument seems similar to the "religion made the dark ages" fallacy, but that had nothing to do with the medieval period
Did you mean the dark ages?
wide root
Yes, indeed
Whatever it is
Sooooo can you just try to answer the question instead of taking detours?
spring blaze
what was the question
wide root
The medieval age occured because of people using religion to control others
@wide root uh no
@hushed steeple tell us what it is then
hushed steeple
I'm not taking detours, I'm finding exactly where you got confused so I can correct from that point onwards.
The "dark ages", first of all, are not "dark" in the sense of the common misconception that humanity sank into some ignorant, primitive morass and everything sucked. The dark ages were actually a period of the same steady scientific and cultural advancement as the surrounding periods of history. Neither were they a time of some imagined theocratic oppression. They were called "dark" by modern historians because very little record survived of the era, due to constant war between political factions creating unstable environments for the preservation of record and artifacts.
desert sun
GINSY GRATZ 
spring blaze
thank youu 
hushed steeple
As for what created that environment, it was the collapse of Rome as a unifying power and the dissolution of the Pax Romana that created a power vacuum in which a large number of nobles decided to struggle for power and territory
desert sun
omg i thought we were talking about sky still so when you mentioned rome my mind blanked
wide root
And why are we even obstinating it in the lore of a game
hushed steeple
The church in Europe, rather than being the popular bad guy of the era, was the sole reason we have record of the period at all, and contributed significantly not only to the advancement of science and medicine, but the mediators of peace between warring states and the founders of the first European universities
wide root
Just stop
hushed steeple
You brought it up
desert sun
orion off topic but can we switch brains
hushed steeple
I'm just correcting your misconceptions
wide root
You are just burning my head with all those words
hushed steeple
If we are going to make cross-comparisons between Sky lore and Earth history, our representation of history must be accurate
hushed steeple
What's exaggerating?
wide root
This thing
If we are going to make cross-comparisons between Sky lore and Earth history, our representation of history must be accurate
@hushed steeple
Common this is just lore
hushed steeple
how is that even something that can be exaggerated
wide root
It’s like a blog
plush moon
i think you mean too serious - @wide root - this is an informal discussion
spring blaze
ok guys this is veering to off-topic territory. let’s head back to lore
wind bone
Let’s disagree with others without being disrespectful please
heady sinew
I would love to hear your thoughts on the creation of the Vault of Knowledge
Was it made as some sort of library? Or maybe a place to store power thingies? (like the blocks we use to activate the elevator)
plush moon
i think that it is a library - if u see the mural for the vault - you will see the stone diamond vessels store code that is then translated into projections or even real creatures
whether this is virtual or cloning i'm not sure - for example i haven't seen the mantas in there being created - plus there was a skeleton
spring blaze
from the gnomon talk, yui said that vault is something they (sky ppl before skykids) built to leave something behind for the future generation
heady sinew
Yeah, it can also be the place where the scholars taught other people to become, well, scholars.
spring blaze
its a vault of knowledge so its pretty much a massive library yeah
heady sinew
At the telekinesis quest we see this huge table, maybe they also used the place for research, writting down stuff and creating an archive
plush moon
i think their missions included pushing the boundaries of mankind (magic) and this involved keeping track of the history of mankind - so they are like truth seekers and creative thinkers
hushed steeple
What is the significance of an anchor in the story?
plush moon
like visionaries and historians
heady sinew
You mean the logo we see when we Call?
hushed steeple
Yee
spring blaze
i mean at the murals on the forgotten ark shows the spirits giving light to scholars
heady sinew
It's mostly like a compass. If you get lost just honk and you're back in track.
spring blaze
and this seasons pretty magical
isnt there a massive anchor in the forgotten ark area?
plush moon
why would they need an anchor?
heady sinew
From a lore perspective, maybe all things that originally came from the nightsky are naturally drawn to the Eye of Eden (aka the place pinned down with the symbol we see when we call) because they know by instinct Eden is the door to their original home
spring blaze
hushed steeple
I was talking about the one anchor on fav friend list
spring blaze
oh the constellation?
hushed steeple
Yes
plush moon
i don't even remember if i noticed that
spring blaze
on the vault elder cutscene, that constellation forms the eden mural
heady sinew
lmao the Jay QR
spring blaze
he never accepted my qr code 
plush moon
BRUH
hushed steeple
Ooo
spring blaze
HEHDBSHDJ
hushed steeple
It looked like an anchor with all the friends cramped in
heady sinew
The crown is probably the one the Eden elder used
hushed steeple
If you cut the lower edges it does look like one lol
plush moon
@heady sinew have u seen the theory @wide root and i came up with
heady sinew
Or might just be a crown
Not sure, checked previous msgs but just barely
Lemme look again brb
plush moon
uh it's kinda scattered and it's a lot to look at
hushed steeple
How long ago did you start with the theory
So we don't go look too much back in chat history
spring blaze
welll in the concept arts there was a king
plush moon
i can summarize it rn
hushed steeple
Sure buddy
spring blaze
actually, in the concept arts the storm was the king
plush moon
i have faith in me ;-;
spring blaze
i believe in you!!
hushed steeple
welll in the concept arts there was a king
@spring blaze which one?
spring blaze
majority of them
if you check the pinned here, find the imgur album under the title “character designs”
plush moon
Basically: faction war theory - light faction (isle, priarie, forest?) vs. diamond faction (wasteland) - neutral (factionless) is valley, vault, and eden - vault was seeking to remedy the crisis of elder mantas being used in power diamond production (saw the oncoming conflict) tried to create their own light creatures as the kingdom was breaking apart
plush moon
valley and eden chose not to intervene (like a quarantine - trying to limit the destruction after the failure to stop the beginning of the war) - as the war progressed - the king started construction on a big power diamond to help get power to unite the kingdoms - it's a compromise promising eternal energy (diamond faction) without sacrificing anymore animals (light)
however the project failed (not enough light) causing the destruction to the kingdom
the project was very ambitious with the effort of valley, eden, and vault but it didn't work
i think that's it but i feel like i left some things....
heady sinew
woah such text
spring blaze
yep, thats the king
plush moon
oh yeah and the opening scene shows a person surrounded by constellations right - that's the king - his monument was destroyed leading to his death
as the elders were unable to move on - they felt guilty and finally forgave each other
heady sinew
what would make the war begin tho, did they differ on ways to gain energy?
plush moon
do u know the light creature evolution theory?
spring blaze
heady sinew
From butterfly > bird > small manta > big manta? That one?
spring blaze
the what theory?
hushed steeple
Oooo, why he so angry
plush moon
yes
spring blaze
ohh i think ive heard
heady sinew
I've heard but I always miss the detailed parts lol
sly kestrel
There’s a wholleeeee timeline bout it but hey ginsyyyy
hushed steeple
Why is there a dead bird in valley?
spring blaze
old beta quest
sly kestrel
Congrats on ur shepherd role
I always knew u would be one
heady sinew
Rightttt, congrats Ginsy!!
sly kestrel
I swear I’m not lying this time 😂😭
plush moon
so basically forest was the inventor of the power diamond but wasteland totally expanded on it with large factories - to feed this progress they transferred from the traditional butterflies (from priarie) and the small mantas (from forest) and started using bigger mantas
spring blaze
i believe you haha
hushed steeple
What are the big creatures in vault with lamps on their back? Are they in evolution?
sly kestrel
But yea that bird was an old beta quest where u chase lights around the citadel and get a candle afterwards
plush moon
@sly kestrel u have someone to friend
sly kestrel
?
spring blaze
plush moon
plush moon
yikes I got to go
hushed steeple
I always thought the child character is the child spirit we had in us when we were little,
and we had to start a journey
fly above the clouds
know darkness that's lingering
compete for excellence and even though you don't excel everyone should still compliment the efforts
then experience malevolence and bad people (krills)
learn and get knowledge to be better
then the child will die and we have to grow up, so aging is the storm
That's what I thought of it
As in after growing up, the child within us dies
And reborn within another child
heady sinew
Also, just came up with another concept around the Elders. Since their cutscenes don't really happen in a 'physical world'.
Maybe they never even has bodies, they fell from the nightsky. So the people/spirits saw them as some sort of divine figure? And that's why the temples have these statues in their name. Maybe the elders found a way to speak with their followers, and they told them about their wish to go back home. Thus the spirits did anything they could to help their 'gods/deities' fulfill their request. From creating power diamonds to building arks and stuff that could reach the highest place they knew, Eden Mountain.
And the elders are just, sort of there, lingering as a sort of force. And the skykid is there to finish what the Spirits had been trying to do?
hushed steeple
So the story creates a cycle
Of us saving others, while dying, them saving us while dying
And on and on and on
heady sinew
Yup
hushed steeple
Am I thinking of it too philosophically?
hushed steeple
Basically what I'm thinking is each elder stands for a quality a child must learn to survive in the world while dying in the process and turning into an adult
Knowledge, bravery, I don't really know a word for rest of 4
Like sportsmanship? In valley, like you have to work together with others and even if you don't be the literal best, a child should still get praised for his efforts
heady sinew
Valley could be ability to do things in groups
And wasteland can be the ability to do things by yourself, since the elder is alone in the cutscene
hushed steeple
And in forest, you have to forge your soul (our fire) to become tough after experiencing darkness for first time, to become stronger
heady sinew
Forest could also be the skill of crafting and knowing how to create useful things
hushed steeple
And wasteland can be the ability to do things by yourself, since the elder is alone in the cutscene
@heady sinew that's bravery and standing up for yourself regardless of how much you're hurt, because the elder is hurt in the scene, but our light makes him stronger because he remembers he has something to protect
heady sinew
That's even better
hushed steeple
Forest could also be the skill of crafting and knowing how to create useful things
@heady sinew I think forest is experiencing darkness and toughening ourself, by forging our will
So an anvil
novel kettle
that would make sense
hushed steeple
I couldn't make anything from a freaking pot and a stick
novel kettle
lmao
hushed steeple
But I unless the rest
novel kettle
theres a lot of theories on how the realms connect when taking their order into consideration
heady sinew
Creativity maybe?
novel kettle
like the fact they each symbolize different periods of one's life
hushed steeple
Like the diamond of the vault elder is our knowledge, to make sure it's ever growing
heady sinew
Knowing wasteland is considered the 'midlife crisis' cracks me up everytime
novel kettle
lmaoo true
hushed steeple
like the fact they each symbolize different periods of one's life
@novel kettle in chronological order if you think
novel kettle
yeah exactly
hushed steeple
Because in the end the child dies
novel kettle
yeah exactly
hushed steeple
To the storm which I think is aging, or time
spring blaze
a child’s life, stages of civilization, and time of day
hushed steeple
Undefeatable storm
Knowledge, bravery, I don't really know a word for rest of 4
@hushed steeple I would say Valley is ambition, Wasteland is duty
novel kettle
i love how it also builds on the fact that the child is the chosen one. how they have to die for this civilization to be brought back almost. but it just loops
hushed steeple
Yeah
Those two words kinda summarize
Forest I would call perseverence
Vault wisdom
I like valley because most of the time children are competed against each other, but they should be working together,
Forest I would call perseverence
@hushed steeple I think it's reinventing
Eden should be perseverance
novel kettle
or determination
hushed steeple
Because the point of eden is we shouldn't give up even if it means death
Eden can't be perseverance, it wouldn't work developmentally
You can't acquire perseverance late
I think perseverance isn't a quality, it's product of those 6 qualities
novel kettle
perseverance is a factor in all the realms. you keep going. even when the rain makes you weak and the krill spots you and such
you keep going
even when you slide face first into a wall
hushed steeple
Prairie and Isle don't require perseverence, which is why they precede it
I would call Prairie creativity or imagination, which lines up with childhood developmentally
What do you think a stick and a pot mean lol
The constellations are representations of the elders
Yeah priare does show creativity and imagination
Isle elder has a staff, Prairie elder has a pot
novel kettle
agreed
hushed steeple
Pot is like our brain which pours creativity or something
novel kettle
butterflies are stored in the pots
hushed steeple
Ya
heady sinew
Idk a stick can be many things, a sword, a pen, a flag. I think Isle is kind of like the beginning of an idea, the thought, the little spark. And prairie is all your imagination and things you make with the initiative
novel kettle
let out when the top is burned off
novel kettle
that would make sense
hushed steeple
Prairie harnesses the spark to make something new
novel kettle
a new place, new beginning to go on
hushed steeple
Forest perseveres through difficulties to remake something that broke or wasn't quite right
Curiosity or will, or maybe both
Valley aspires and competes
Maybe its 2 qualities each realm
Wasteland fulfills duty even in the face of danger
novel kettle
determination in wasteland
hushed steeple
Vault bestows the wisdom of experience
I still believe that the anvil stands for forging our spirit
novel kettle
toughening us up
hushed steeple
Yeah
hushed steeple
Eden represents sacrifice and the passing on of ourselves to others
Like the storm is undefeated because it's nature
Time
It doesn't care who or what
And those 6 spirits, qualities give use strength to face it
novel kettle
to prepare us of what's to come
novel kettle
lmao yes.
novel kettle
woop
spring blaze
in the laugh spirit’s cutscene, the staff is used to collect light from birds
imma assume its a light collecting tool
novel kettle
is there some place where you can rewatch spirit cutscenes? cuz i would love to watch them again.
spring blaze
maybe isle is staff because gramps is old and needs a cane
theres some cutscenes pinned here i think
not all cutscenes though, but i think all the memory relieves of all spirits minus seasonals are there too
novel kettle
hmm i just skimmed thorugh and couldnt really find anything
spring blaze
Spirits stories screenshots! Spirits are blue when you first encounter them and become gray/golden when reliving their memories, both are included below. Does not include seasonal spirits.
Spirit stories archive by @jade galleon
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pyhkgOnhiODM45Ys0ivMStANwtU8z64x?usp=sharing
Spirit stories relived by @crimson grove + kanpai videos
(minor beta spoilers!)
https://imgur.com/a/IfN4THT
jade galleon
lol mirian
hushed steeple
What does a staff stand for in already existing cultures?
It does represent an experiences elder person
novel kettle
thats just their places. not the cutscenes
spring blaze
yes some of them have videos
spring blaze
HAHA
novel kettle
the firework one
hushed steeple
It's like, in life if you miss out on one of those spirits you become messed up adult
spring blaze
dam i never learned how to clap 😔
novel kettle
also, ginsy those doesnt show the cutscenes. just their routes or whatever you call them
spring blaze
lol i said some of them have their cutscenes, but not all
novel kettle
oof
spring blaze
your best bet imo is those vid guides online :/
hushed steeple
What is the word for it
novel kettle
same
spring blaze
envy?
hushed steeple
No
Envy is one
How do I explain
Hmm, like you don't trust others so you try to do everything by yourself and eventually fail because something you can't do alone
And you become bitter to others
spring blaze
ahh
hushed steeple
If you miss out on valley
Or if you miss out on forest you become the classic "my dad has contacts to big people, nothing can happen to me" person
Because you never encounter evil or misfortune in life, and forest is the first place where we get hurt,
hushed steeple
Oh dang
novel kettle
that would make sense since people also say it could symbolize teenage
hushed steeple
Noah was ark
wind bone
Yeah it’s canon that each level is a different stage of life!
hushed steeple
Teenage is okay, teenagers are stupid
I'm talking about grown adults doing that
There are actual people out there
spring blaze
well noah probably had a staff since he lived like 600 years anyway
hushed steeple
Technically
Back to Philosophy
And if you miss out on vault, you become arrogant and stupid and unwise
Or if you miss out on forest you become the classic "my dad has contacts to big people, nothing can happen to me" person
I mean wasteland, not forest
Because people that never experience the feeling of being vulnerable, they never grow stronger
Missing forest would be becoming delusional as in a sense "that wouldn't happen to me" mentality
Or becoming a manchild, because of not toughening yourself and not growing yourself to face evil
Am I making sense?
Prolly not
hushed steeple
Yeah it’s canon that each level is a different stage of life!
@wind bone maybe more of a "it should be a stage of life, because if it's not a person wouldn't survive the real world"
novel kettle
i found a youtube playlist that contains complete walkthroughs of all realms
including cutscenes
though the star locations are outdated on some of them
hushed steeple
That's cool
novel kettle
though it would be cool if someone had done it with all the seasonal too
spring blaze
yep, the playlist was during release
novel kettle
yeah i though so too
novel kettle
yeah