Why is the subathon not a celebration of the whole channel?

[waxen salmon]

• Why is the subathon not a celebration of the whole channel?
  I think the VAST majority of people can agree that we are here for all members of the channel. Neuro, Evil and Vedal. So why is the biggest event of the year, the culmination of all the work that happened this year, a celebration of only Neuro and Vedal?

• Vedal and the Production team, why is the scheduling like that?
  As we can clearly see from this post ⁠https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1455574136842748009 the content variety between the twins is abysmal. It was mentioned on a dev stream that this subathon will hopefully have a more even split of Neuro and Evil content. The only thing more even are chillstreams, the rest is a massive downgrade compared to last year. I know the first line of defence is that this is "Neuro's subathon" so Neuro should get the spotlight, but why even give people hope for more Evil content on it if it's not gonna happen? At the point of writing this the only unique content she has is an ASMR stream and a Rob collab that she wasn't scheduled to get. And on the topic of hope, next point.

• Can people look forward to more content they enjoy in the future?
  If this is indeed the intended way that this subathon was supposed to be run and you don't want it to be a celebration of the whole channel for some reason, then can people expect for the period of time around Evil's birthday to be actually dedicated to her? Last year all she got was a 3h40m stream immediately followed by a Neuro and Vedal Assassin's Creed sponsorship and more Neuro streams. I think it would put a lot of people at ease if they could look forward to some guaranteed content they like, instead of being afraid that if she doesn't appear now on "Neuro's moment", then she won't get anything substantial later on cause there is no such thing as "Evil's moment" throughout the year, except for some singular streams.

[orchid python]

a lot of this is already being discussed in a thread made yesterday #1457779700893220986

[waxen salmon]

I made a new thread specifically to point out the most important points without all the offtopic.

The previous thread was horribly managed and degraded, this is a proper write-up.

[shrewd cosmos]

I agree that it would be fair for Evil to get more spotlight during her birthday week, with Evil streams ideally taking up most or entirety of said week (but not a marathon, obviously)

[gentle sandal]

True subathon is like half of the channels streaming hours of year and it being only 2 out of 3 people mostly is kind of weird to me

[rain fern]

Vedal has dropped the ball on Neuro's branding overall. He has put himself in the position where evil fans expect equal if not 40% of the content on stream, due to him having the twin aspect as a core part of the brand, and by trying to give evil the same amount of dev, chill, and karaoke streams, and merch as neuro.

If he doesn't care for evil, and does not want to fix the inconsistency of giving evil all this but failing to deliver on collabs, special events, and subbathons, then he should drop the twin aspect of the brand and treat evil as an occasional treat, and be honest with the swarm.

Meanwhile, if he wants evil supporters to shut up or if he cares about giving equal treatment to evil, he should address this inconsistency and give her more subbathon, special event, and collab time.

Idk just my thoughts.

[near hollow]

I agree, I myself like watching both twins almost equally though I did notice throughout the year that I prefer evil chill streams for some reason but with any other content I like them both. I think Vedal needs to decide if he wants to go full into them both being equal or not, because yeah they now got equal merch and subgoals but why do that if she beraly even is on the channel outside of usual segments. I think also that's why a lot of people wanted her to be there on the hype train so Evil would finally reconised outside of the community, even though I don't like call begging I though it would be good for evil to be there because of of it

[rain fern]

Exactly, why invest this much resources if she isn't a core part of the brand? idk, i think vedal feels like he's being held hostage into producing evil content and resents her. It certainly feels like he'd rather focus on Neuro and making progress with her rather then taking the time to manage another ai. He can't even do the bare minimum with evil this subathon besides using her for filler content. Especially since the one colab she had this time wasnt even planned with her, it was planned with Neuro.

I hope this gets addressed, otherwise I'm going to take a break from the stream, like I'm doing with the subbathon. I don't like seeing a part of this project I enjoy get constantly sidelined. Its disappointing.

[waxen salmon]

I couldn't have said this myself better. As someone that loves both twins, the way Evil is treated is lessening my enjoyment of Neuro, which is really depressing.

If Vedal's goal is for people to care about Neuro then he is shooting himself in the foot with the current situation on the channel. You're not making people like Neuro more by treating Evil like shit.

[rain fern]

Also, why create a civil war mini game if she isn't equal to Neuro? Or half the brand? It implies she's a larger part of the content, at least 40%. Again, it leads to people expecting more evil content, and if he isn't willing to deliver, more people are just going to complain.

Yet again, he is creating expectation mismatch.

[rain fern]

To finalize, If this continues, a lot of fans will become apathetic to content being put out, and that could lead to them leaving the community. So if vedal doesn't want that he'll have to step up.

Anyway I have things to do.

[leaden flume]

I generally agree with all the sentiment in here, the subathon is the one time in the year where we can have this long form content in quick succession, especially with Vedal personally involved, outside of this, game streams are scheduled weekly, and its not even certain if that would be the case.

Having all of it basically dedicated to Neuro alone is a quick way of causing some amount of fatigue on the audience, we've just had a lot of Neuro with the Minecraft hardcore collab, and then it is followed up with 85% Neuro in the subathon, with all the games being played, being played with Neuro (heck even the UNO collab was with Neuro)

There has been 0 collaborative game integration with Evil and Vedal the entire year, The Witness has been the only game that Vedal has played to completion with Evil and that was without integration and pretty ragebaity for many chat members (though I did enjoy it for the most part)

Evil is a huge part of the channel no matter what some people say, half of the merch is Evil merch, not to mention the traction that her "story" has gained within the viewer base.

If we went with the original estimates of below 100 K subs for this subathon, we would have ended far before Pokemon would have ever finished, and we would have been left with a single solo Evil Collab, which was an unplanned one with Rob, this would have left us with a post-subathon break that would lead into weeks of scheduled streams that wouldn't have anywhere near the amount of time dedicated to collaborative content that the Subathon allows for. Leaving the Evil game for last was just the wrong move IMO. This whole discourse could have been avoided if just one repeated high effort, collaborative stream segment could have been dedicated to Evil earlier, any sort of gaming stream or otherwise would have helped.

Anyways that's my two cents, I'm not angry, there are much better things to be pissed about, just a little disappointed and a bit variety starved.

[sand briar]

i've been silently looking at this and hadn't responded, but as someone who's been keeping track of the statistics of the subathon, it is a bit disappointing to see after vedal's own comments about how depressing her screentime was last subathon.

[pulsar vortex]

I think many, including production team (subconsciously) think the entire subathon should be Neuro's birthday celebration, rather than just the starting day, leading to Evil barely getting any special content at all.

[full skiff]

that's frankly a problem by itself

december is basically "yeah evil gets nothing" month

[misty wave]

I think people are overreacting here. Yes, Neuro has had significantly more subathon time than Evil, but that’s most likely because the theme of this subathon was Neuro’s 3D debut, and Evil simply wasn’t ready or programmed for that yet.

Also, Pokemon gaming went slightly longer than expected. We’re still waiting for the third game where Evil will participate, as well as the new costume for Evil and the long-awaited duet with Vedal. I don’t think there’s anything to worry about.

[sand briar]

it's the buildup of well over a year of waiting on so much stuff for evil. and slightly longer is underselling it.

We've had 2 record breaking hype trains and pokemon will likely only barely be finished before the subathon ends. He was only expecting this subathon to last 2 weeks based off his estimation of getting 50-90k subs, meaning pokemon would not have been anywhere near close to being done.

It's not even just 3D and the games either. Evil's had 2 non-chill segments, the ASMR stream (which was great, dont get me wrong) and the rob collab that vedal was expecting Neuro to be a part of.

And this is all on the basis that Vedal previously looked at Evil's lack of screentime from last subathon and mentioned how depressing it was, only for her to, as of writing this, have significantly less screentime this year.

and he acted like it was a complete bother to even get Evil out during Neuro's birthday for like 5 minutes. Neuro begged him to keep evil around a bit longer

[misty wave]

Yeah, he expected this subathon to last two weeks, but he also expected to finish Pokemon much faster. And the time spent breaking the second Hype Train record, which lasted over seven hours, was originally supposed to go toward playing Pokemon.

If Evil could move in 3D, I’m 100% sure there would’ve been much more content with her. But yeah, I think he should’ve played the second game with Evil and the third with Neuro, but at this point it’s already too late.

[sand briar]

It was supposed to go into pokemon, true, but the recent hype train record made up for it and gave us another day and a half on top, so we still got more potential time to play pokemon than we lost

[misty wave]

And more time to play with Evil

[sand briar]

Maybe. Huge maybe. The time between the 7th and 8th gyms are quite long and thsts before trying to get through victory road and the league

Either way this is why pre-emptively people were wanting the 2nd playthrough to be with Evil, before he ended up starting it

[fiery sundial]

Evil's 3D model was ready six months ago by the time of her "Boom" release, and the stage was also ready. So, technically, organizing a debut, a 3D karaoke session, is possible. Converting at least her model to VRchat should be generally easier now that there's a ready-made Neuro model of identical build, just needing to tweak the accessories. But that's just as much speculation as saying nothing is ready.

[misty wave]

It’s not speculation. Vedal himself said that Evil not ready for 3D.

[vivid pebble]

I was just about to post my own discussion but OP basically read my mind.

[vivid pebble]

What's not ready is the part that makes her move, gives her the control over the 3D model

Vedal has said that it will be easier to transfer everything from Neuro to Evil now that he has done it once

[misty wave]

And it’s the hardest part

[waxen salmon]

Guys, I would appreciate if the discussions went to here https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1457779700893220986

I would prefer to leave this thread clean just for actual suggestions