Minecraft Marathon is Peak, and its Reflected in the Viewership

[wicked vessel]

Ultimately what people are vocal about here doesn't represent the wider audience or what's best for Neuro. People complaining may not like the stream but also aren't acting in the bests interests of the Neuro project, that's the harsh truth in all of this. So my suggestion is simple, don't listen to nn on this one, listen to money and ccv.

Shorter days or even a break around Neuros birthday is fine, but don't look past the thing that serves as a legitimately viral attention grabbing concept (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/an-ai-vtuber-is-trying-to-complete-hardcore-minecraft-and-all-hell-is-breaking-loose/1100-6536753/) and a gift to the channel for the opinions of the vocal few in neurocord.

EDIT: To be clear, after some discussion in this thread I've settled on the position that if a pause is needed to prep for subathon and neuros birthday I'd be chill with it, obviously that comes first.

There is a risk to goodwill with viewers and particularly new viewers from breaking the titles promise but Ved no doubt knows that already and its his job to weigh up the costs and benefits there.

On the other hand I don't support a pause if its not a necessary evil to prep for those events, that's more or less where I stand now.

EDIT EDIT: Thread over, absolute cinema.

[copper gate]

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-27058877

[proud oracle]

AintNoWay .You made it a thread?

[steep elm]

https://tenor.com/view/vince-mcmahon-gif-26506627

[wicked vessel]

Hey gotta balance out the other threads somehow right

[copper gate]

i see you have interesting mood today huh

[cosmic stump]

bunch of crelly and fillian fans that wont stick around after the event ends vs the actual community, who wins

[wicked vessel]

The crelly and filian fans are watching on crelly and filians channels

[wicked vessel]

They've also seen a sustained CCV boost from this

[proud oracle]

This assumes that the people watching are supportive of it instead of wanting better content. Even some of the people who were complaining about it in nn watch it but are still disappointed

[velvet vale]

I'm just saying that if Vedal ditched Neuro and pandered to kids by playing Fortnite for hours he'd have even bigger numbers. Would it be healthy for Neuro project? Not sure

[wicked vessel]

But he's not doing that

That wouldn't be part of the neuro project, this is

[primal comet]

as vedal once said he doesnt care about numbers

[steep elm]

Neuro learns to play Fortnite

[wicked vessel]

He should in this case if he doesn't

Its a legitimately attention grabbing viral concept for a stream

[primal comet]

nah

[wicked vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/nah-id-win-gojo-nah-id-win-gojo-satoru-gojo-jujutsu-kaisen-gif-722934852497975468

[primal comet]

he has more important shit to prepare

[wicked vessel]

Why not both ↓

[cosmic stump]

the ccv is back to normal numbers after it dropped off for a while, i wouldnt call that 'viral'

[primal comet]

postpone it after subathon then?

why should be continuous

if we are already saying reduce the time spent on the challange the point of the challange is already over

[ember pivot]

It’s also likely that those people are only here for the human streamers and will likely fall when things return to normal

per usual

[wicked vessel]

I'd rather have more of this than subathon

As long as we still get the birthday stream standalone

[primal comet]

no because the subathon isnt just the birthday stream

[wicked vessel]

Subathon is mostly just chill stream, its just this but with less going on

I enjoy it, but this I want to see this event through to the end

[midnight garden]

genuine question, are you enjoying this more than either subathon

[wicked vessel]

Imagine how cool it will be when they finally beat it

[wicked vessel]

No, but I want to see it through to its conclusion

And I think its healthy for the channel to do so

[potent saddle]

Once-Ler coded thread, prioritizing money over the happiness of people around you

[wicked vessel]

You lose all the goodwill this garnered with audiences if you don't commit

[primal comet]

and a challange that was suposed to be for the sake of the challange being monetized now is incredibly dumb like a youtube show that was free but now you gotta pay to watch what is already happening

[wicked vessel]

I'm prioritising the future of neuro over your happiness

[primal comet]

this isnt the future you literally said you would prefer to delay the subathon the main form of income for this

[cosmic stump]

what happened to prioritising whats best for neuro

[wicked vessel]

Okay that was ragebaity, my apologies for that

I would rather take a break then resume after subathon if we get to the start of the subathon

I don't think this event should have started so late admittedly

[midnight garden]

I don't disagree that they should finish it out (I like ) but prioritizing this over one of the main highlights of this whole community seems counterintuitive to "whats best for neuro"

[wicked vessel]

The original date it was planned for then pushed back from was smarter

[sacred monolith]

I don't think people complaining don't want what's best for the neuro project. It's quite the opposite. I think they care SO much and presume this marathon will make other streams worse... for some reason.

[copper gate]

like big numbers yeah but will these numbers convey into chill stream hmmm?

[primal comet]

then if your opinion is mixed with ragebait now i dont think thats good for the argument at all

[proven rock]

ill agree that its [HCMC] good; i think your inflating how much additional viewership its bringing in but given the turtle has likely already planned out subathon i dont see why we should stop before subathon starts, keep going until the night before assuming they aren't getting to burnt out

[primal comet]

do it after the subathon

[wicked vessel]

Yeah I was dipping into ragebait territory, you're right about the subathon

[midnight garden]

okay, that makes more sense

[wicked vessel]

It was just the one thing, what you're seeing otherwise is my genuine opinion

But I don't think we quit mc hardcore today

[primal comet]

or do it after the main content is done

[wicked vessel]

Keep it going to the end of this week at least then take a break for subathon

I think that's a fair compromise

[primal comet]

because it wont be just the that

the birthday party

there is more shit to it

also depends if the subathon would be capped

if the subathon is capped to two weeks and a lot of it is just this challange it would be really really lame

[wicked vessel]

This is fair yeah

I just don't agree with people saying it should stop today

Thing is though, the stream title says the stream won't end till they beat it

A lot of goodwill from all that new viewership is lost if they do pause it

[primal comet]

thats for vedal to decide tbh if he needs to do something

[wicked vessel]

Twitch audiences expect people to commit to challenge scenarios like these

[potent saddle]

I know you're half serious. But i'm still gonna respond.

You really think that making this stream last longer where Neuro gets ignored for 90% of the time will make people want to watch her on her own in the long run ?

[quartz violet]

This is a stupid steam idea

[wicked vessel]

I think as a one off it helps the channel, as long as the regular content afterwards is the same as ever

[quartz violet]

Those viewers aren't gonna be retained anyway

[wicked vessel]

(Serious)

[quartz violet]

They won't come here for neuro

[wicked vessel]

But they do

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/an-ai-vtuber-is-trying-to-complete-hardcore-minecraft-and-all-hell-is-breaking-loose/1100-6536753/

[quartz violet]

This stream is so shit for retaining neuro viewers

[wicked vessel]

Who is mentioned in the title of the articles

In the social media chatter

Who is central to all the fanart

Sure Neuro doesn't have sole attention, but its still good for her

[primal comet]

not really? a lot of people will understand they have more shit to do like doug doug did fail challanges but people really werent angry for him abdoning them

[wicked vessel]

The clips are called "Neuros hardcore minecraft marathon"

Not "Vedals hardcore minecraft marathon"

[primal comet]

journalism is cringe a lot of the time

[quartz violet]

Oh nooo, an article got made.

If you watch the stream you would know that this just isn't good for neuro, people watching this stream will only see the AI as just a dumb little slave being told what to do

This stream doesn't show neuro's personality, it doesn't show her capability to talk to people

[wicked vessel]

But its helpful

[quartz violet]

It only shows her worst side

[wicked vessel]

I disagree, but that's a matter of subjective opinion that probably won't be bridged by discussion

[primal comet]

ehhhhhh

[quartz violet]

This will only cement viewers that come here only for dev streams

[wicked vessel]

I think Neuros had some really great showings during the marathon

[copper gate]

but its really more of it than "Neuros hardcore minecraft marathon" tho lets be real with yourself

[wicked vessel]

Vedal isn't even on the stream half the time

And the CCV has held regardless

[primal comet]

because a lot of the people are neuro is only funny when she is with another person

[potent saddle]

It was literally going down since september

[cosmic stump]

yea no i think that article is gonna put a lot of eyes on the channel for sure

[bleak wyvern]

Numbers means nothing, the chat is slow af too, have you not realised that people just leave the stream on for point farming?

[quartz violet]

And yet, those viewers in the dev stream don't translate to viewers when it's just neuro alone now does it?

[wicked vessel]

And now its recovering because of the marathon yes

[primal comet]

or for betting

[wicked vessel]

Still feeds the algo

[primal comet]

i love gambling

[quartz violet]

This is for making neuro a streamer, not making neuro a hub for the gang and co

[wicked vessel]

Who looks at gamespots twitter for articles

[cosmic stump]

who looks at gamespot

[wicked vessel]

I don't know a single person who would look at the twitter account of a gaming news site for articles and not the site itself

[potent saddle]

Yeah so then it will go down again after it will end like they said.
These people are not here regularly

[wicked vessel]

Lots of people,. that's just a fact

[quartz violet]

Cultivating neuro viewers is the goal, it's all streamers goal of cultivating their fanbase.

A stream like this just doesn't cultivate that kind of viewer

[wicked vessel]

I simply disagree

The evidence in viewership says otherwise

[wicked vessel]

You retain people after events like these

We literally didn't get streams for months after subathon and then only chillslop (affectionate), it still took a while for decline to set in

[bleak wyvern]

number frogs

[quartz violet]

I've already said that those viewers aren't gonna be cultivated as a neuro viewer.

I guess you just won't adress this

[primal comet]

this is just normal viewership levels though

[wicked vessel]

Numbers dictate whether Neuro lives or dies

[potent saddle]

We had the biggest subathon last year and the ccv of chill streams have been almost at the same level as the end of 2023

[wicked vessel]

Don't shoot the messenger

[primal comet]

vedal once said not worry about the money

[wicked vessel]

Yeah because we did jackshit for six months afterwards

[cosmic stump]

the numbers are meaningless until we see where they are after the event ends

i mean theyre kinda meaningless in general but still

[wicked vessel]

I am though

[quartz violet]

Can we make another thread discussion other than this? This is such a ragebait thread

[wicked vessel]

I'm a neuro fan not a vedal fan

[quartz violet]

Doesn't even address this

[primal comet]

yeah but the neuro project is controlled by vedal

if the director of the project says to not worry about numbers in general

idk why we should the viewers

[wicked vessel]

That doesn't mean I'm always gonna listen to Vedal over my own intuitions regarding the project

Neuro was on a downward trajectory and is now on an upwards one

That's good enough for me

[primal comet]

that does feel weirdly parasocial tbh

[copper gate]

bigger=better is one kind of mindset i don't get why even people try to argue with you? cause clearly you all have different standards with zero path to convince each other otherwise? boredom is dangerous thing

[wicked vessel]

maybe it is maybe it isn't

I don't care about being perceived as weird, I care about the thing I love continuing to do well

[primal comet]

who is to say that numbers wontdrop massively after this challange?

the streams are getting kinda stale

[copper gate]

they surely will

[wicked vessel]

I'm only invested in being vocal about this because others are vocal for the opposite viewpoint and I believe its detrimental to the health of the project

If we could both be quiet I'd love that honestly

[copper gate]

there will be boost whatever big it is but how long it will last only time tells

[primal comet]

vanor said to give our opinions

[primal comet]

subathon is the biggest boost avaliable

[copper gate]

quiet is not something communities can do

[primal comet]

the end of the subathon had 20k people or was it 25k i dont remember exactly

[gray remnant]

I will agree with the fact that the viewership has increased a bit for this marathon. Will they stick around? Only time will tell. I feel like some will, but its hard to say until it actually happens

[copper gate]

of course why you trying to convince me on something tho? like i don't have mindset bigger=better

[copper gate]

they surely will not stay for chill streams

[wicked vessel]

I don't think we're breaking the hype train record again

[primal comet]

because if people are considering a boost subathon is the bigger one of the two

[proven rock]

members and may it please the court; i raise point of information please see image attached which is past 30 days of stats for the channel

[oak quiver]

Marathon stream with 4 people has higher viewership thats crazy

[wicked vessel]

Last subathon was a unique set of circumstances

[copper gate]

non believer smh

[wicked vessel]

I'd love to be wrong

[primal comet]

lot of viewers in november

[proven rock]

debut stream i belive

[wicked vessel]

I walk alone :guitartime:

[glacial moth]

that was the 3d debut, which only goes further to prove the point that a ton of people are there and ready to tune in to anything but chillslop

[copper gate]

he still will not be vedal cause its daily live in nn

[primal comet]

therefore subathon would have more people than this if you are in the mentality big numbers good

[proven rock]

also for the refrence of members; filians sats for the same timeframe

[primal comet]

just average stream numbers?

[copper gate]

how good multi tabs are detected nowadays?

like with all this ccv bs i really not sure how trustworthy they all are

[wicked vessel]

Ccv stats here are actually lower than true viewership

[proven rock]

i use multistream and its lower

[wicked vessel]

People who have it on in the background not interacting aren't counted

[proven rock]

but ppl just using multiple tabs i dont know enough about the counters system

[copper gate]

what even considered as interacting?

[wicked vessel]

Chatting

[proven rock]

tabed in i would assume

oh no

[wicked vessel]

And not having adblock lule

[copper gate]

im ghost viewer

[copper gate]

fully ghost

[wind ice]

My take on all this, yap incoming: all in all good numbers help the channel, we have reached the allotted 3 day mark, and I'm sure Vedal has the capacity to stretch it at least a little while and not have it impact subathon/subathon development, probably at the cost of burnout. That being said, the channel alone is not neuro, the project itself is not to see just how many viewers can be gathered. Sure money helps development and keeps her running, but if she can't speak for most of the collab and is reduced to a glorified mining bot its the equivalent of keeping a comatose person on life support. And god forbid the challenge goes on for weeks but if it does the viewership will fall off as its the new norm and not an event, as little as it feels like they are making slow progress with more consistent runs, if they hit a true plateau it falls off. End of the day the swarm wants to see Neuro strive, and I don't think this is an effective way of showing off the project.

[hazy sapphire]

If we went by numbers captured on any content then CFRB cover is the worst piece of content released this year :lule:

[brisk apex]

Probably because it's just released, it's not a mv like Chinatown blues, it's almost same version as we already had for a long time, it wasn't promoted. So it's not really argument

[hazy sapphire]

Then do the numbers of the marathon only matter cause there was advertising?

-# I wasnt being serious btw

[shell swift]

We should give the channel to KaiCenat because his high viewership obviously means better content

[final imp]

high numbers mean jack shit when nobody stays

[shell swift]

I mean, a ton of people admit that its a 2nd monitor content

Even if they are watching

[hazy sapphire]

I wonder what would happen if there was no gamba

[brisk apex]

Speaking of viewership, I agree with potat, but it's a good thing to bring up not because of money and hype and stuff, but because viewership just shows that viewers enjoying the collab in general. And I saw someone said that it's just people who come and go, not the actual fanbase, but it sounds like "I'm true fan and some people I don't even know are fake fans, don't count their opinion". Maybe it's a little bit exaggeration, but you get the idea. No offense, not mean to ragebait, just my opinion, might be wrong idk, I'm kinda new here and probably can't see the whole picture, but still want to leave my opinion here. There are so many good points on "both sides" of this, but people often tend to get so radical about their opinion. Aaanyway let's way for the dev stream and what vedal have to say about this

[shell swift]

As much as big number = good it doesn't really matter when there is barely anyone even donating

I watched for hours and I legit haven't seen a single gifted sub

[brisk apex]

Oh so quality of content is measured in donations now? Nahh bro

[wicked vessel]

Ads make more money than donos anyway

[wicked vessel]

Cr1tikal spoke at length on this and even turned off donos

[shell swift]

That's literally what this thread is about

quality of content is measured in numbers

big number = good content

[wicked vessel]

Donos just measure how many saudi princes enjoyed it, viewership measures overall reception

[brisk apex]

Numbers is not only donos, I said this in my message, I'm not hundred percent agree on money part, but absolutely agree on viewership part

[shell swift]

Why would you want a big number if you aren't getting anything from it

Just do a chill stream with 5k people and you will get more money from highlighted messages

[brisk apex]

Ads, popularity, twitch recommending your channel for potential donos, YouTube do the same?

[wicked vessel]

Like I said, ads generally make streamers more money than donos

[shell swift]

We are just acting like normal dev or gaming streams don't bring similiar numbers for way less effort?

[wicked vessel]

The ratio may be slightly better for neuro but with viewer numbers like these we're probably bringing in a lot of ad money

Plus the tail end of this is more people to stick around for those regular streams

[wind ice]

xqc has a high average viewer count but I wouldnt call it good content

[oak quiver]

Aint nobody new sticking around for neuro after this challenge

[shell swift]

Those 17k daily subathon viewers surely stuck around huh

[hazy sapphire]

People forget the streak of streams after the subathon where people would consistently asking for Ved or his friends cause all they knew was the subathon time

[shell swift]

I really don't see how this marathon is so darn great for the channel when its pulling less numbers than your average vedal gaming stream

And its with 4 people collab and gamba

[brisk apex]

Last subathon had a good viewer count, you won't call it a good content too? We hit about 50k at some point

[brisk apex]

Yea you know this for sure

[shell swift]

50k? HUH

[brisk apex]

What? You didn't know?

[shell swift]

44k is not "about 50k"

Its about 45k

[bleak wyvern]

Wasnt that when we was doing hypetrain record?

[copper gate]

in peak hypetrain it was something around 40-45 my memory is dogshit

[shell swift]

Yeah, those people were 100% not sticking around

They just wanted to see the hypetrain get broken

[wind ice]

this is literally my point, good content is not derived from viewership alone (subathon was good)

[shell swift]

Its evident because the viewership dropped hard after it

[vale torrent]

Many of them was just there for the record itself ye

[wicked vessel]

But its definitely a healthy channel

Unfortunately

[wind ice]

right, unfortunately, would you like to see neuro on the same route?

[wicked vessel]

No, but that's not on the cards anyway

[brisk apex]

Ok, yea, it was around 45k but you completely ignored the whole point of my message and just chose to point on this minor mistake instead of constructive answer. Anyway I don't want to argue, especially just before the dev stream where most of these topics are gonna be settled. Might be wrong again, I'm esl and kinda stupid, maybe I got some of your points wrong, maybe I phrased some of my points wrong. I don't want to bring negativity to the community, I'm enjoying collab and see so many complains just upsets me, that's all. Have a good one guys, I'm leaving for now

[wind ice]

Exactly, now it might just be the ragebait getting to me, but it seems like your argument/points isn't just that 'viewership good', as based on the title its acting like this content is what we should be striving for because of the viewership, which is what I don't agree with.

[wicked vessel]

I think its ragebait getting to you

My argument is just that objectively the channel was in a slump and is recovering well off this marsthon

[wind ice]

I would say its simply to early to say that this "recovers" viewership, we'll have to see what happens when its over, unfortunately we cant really get a proper metric on that as we will almost immediately shift into subathon

[shell swift]

Yeah, because your 50k viewers thing has literally nothing to do with what we are talking about

These 12k viewers we have watching a Neuro stream where Neuro talks 5% of the time would really want to watch content where she talks 100% of it

Surely

[jaunty plaza]

All this marathon does is cultivate more "where is vedal?" and the "AI is boring without humans" viewers

[crimson kayak]

I thought most already agreed that Neuro is at her best with humans?

[potent saddle]

But what's the point if the said humans ignores her ?

[crimson kayak]

well in this case, the fun is in the challenge

and succeeding requires interacting with her

[crimson kayak]

I don't know how you say that isn't the case with what is happening right this second lol

[opaque flint]

If it runs AI constently it isn't as profitable as regualar streams. Neuro gets most of her money in a huge hype train at the start of stream, subthon makes up for it with sub goals and timer. I don't know the details but I doubt that this is as profitable as you think.

[glacial moth]

streams are objectively better with humans and with vedal

[opaque flint]

Big name news is a helpful boost, local news is a boost for local events and business, nobody is reading Gamespot.

And that CCV graph being zoomed out to all time is extreamly misleading.

[maiden timber]

then that should be fixed and the viewership that will have that mentality shouldn’t be cultivated

[wicked vessel]

You can zoom in and still see the clear benefit

[jaunty plaza]

Potat is right it will boost viewership I'm just not sure if it will be the kind of viewership who will enjoy Neuro on her own which will lead to more demands for vedal content

[wicked vessel]

Even if we disregard counter points and assume that to be the case veedlets are still useful to have, just make sure you remain vocal in your own preferences to keep things in balance

I'm not saying people shouldn't complain with this post, I actually encourage it even if I don't think the complaints are in neuros best interest, just as I would encourage those who agree with me to be vocal as well

[final imp]

are veedlets even subbed

[wicked vessel]

Its healthy for a community to air out opinions like this in a civil fashion because that's usually how you find the optimal compromise

[wicked vessel]

Ads bring in more revenue than subs

Cr1tikal had a whole thing about it

[final imp]

didnt vedal say that he made almost no money from ads

obviously it could've changed but i remember him saying that sometime during last subathon

[wicked vessel]

I imagine its probs changed if that is the case

Charlie went so far as to turn off donos saying he legitimately doesn't need that income stream and ads are the most lucrative medium for all the streamers he knows anyway

[bright bluff]

I think this speaks more to how !nothing happened during the year than how good MC is

also this graph is month averages, so MC is overrepresented in the December number

[wicked vessel]

If you look closely at December it still shoots up where it was previously normal for this year

I just went for the zoomed out view because it emphasises the point more

[bright bluff]

i meant it's averaged across all streams, so previous months were dragged down by chill streams.
December has 5 streams so far and 2 of them are MC.
November has 3D debut which peaked at 26k CCV, but there were 20 streams and 8 of them were chills

[wicked vessel]

Well the whole debate is moot anyway now lol

Absolute cinema

What a wonderful finale

I loved every second, and I hope even for those of you guys who didn't that finale was worth it

[quartz violet]

Good for you. Last thoughts, steam idea sucked, 1/10 neuro stream, thank god they ended it at the end so it doesn't bleed to other content.

Actually the perfect day to end this stream

[shell swift]

Still disagree

[cunning bone]

hold onto that feeling and enjoy it, regardless of people's own PERSONAL feelings, there is no doubt it was a successful series of streams simply from outreach and it was ambitious even if it could have used more time in the oven.

Just enjoy what you enjoy and don't let the opinions of others drag you down, some people will never be happy with anything here and that's their prerogative.

[jaunty plaza]

Well ...... The end was pretty peak I guess