I’ve designed what might be the safest possible route for Neuro to beat Hardcore Minecraft

[fierce bison]

Though it’s still extremely challenging,it isn’t impossible.
Start:
Find a village, get four beds, build a tripwire hook duper for string.

Trade with a fisherman to get emeralds, then buy a full set of diamond armor from an armorer, and purchase Ender Pearls from a cleric. Find pumpkins and share them with Crelly and Neuro.

Mid:
Enter the Nether. Filian/Vedal heads into the Nether to search for a fortress, while the other stays in the overworld with Neuro and Crelly.

Stop sleeping for three days to spawn phantoms and farm phantom membranes, then brew a large supply of slow falling potions. Make sure Neuro stays under Slow Falling effects from this point on, or at least throughout the Nether and the End.

End:
Build the path to the Nether Fortress, collect blaze rods, craft eyes, and locate the stronghold. Filian and Vedal go through the Portal first to check the spawn platform. After that, Crelly and Neuro enter.

Neuro must be strictly prohibited from attacking the endermen. Moreover, she and Crelly are absolutely not allowed to enter the dragon's nest. Just shoot a few arrows at the dragon symbolically. The main task of killing the dragon should be left to Vedal and Filian. With the pumpkin head and the slow fall potion, Crelly and Neuro won't die so easily either.

Then defeat the Ender Dragon.

tho this route still requires certain skills and luck

I’ve designed what might be the safest possible route for Neuro to beat Hardcore Minecraft

[golden bone]

Thank God FINALLY. Someone with an ACTUAL suggestion. Don't know why some people put their whinning in a discussion panel. Thank you for the effort @fierce bison

[analog ivy]

i support this strat

[white sierra]

Sounds really reasonable. It's gonna take them forever to get to the end, but at least they won't die as easily as if they were any less prepared

[tight timber]

Apparently having concerns is whining

[worn pelican]

I swear some of you just think any criticisms are whining

they won't listen to any of this anyway

and neuro will just end up dying to something dumb

like this is good advice and all but prep means literally nothing unless when they get in the they immediately trap neuro in a box so she can't move at all which begs the question of why she was involved at all

[hybrid lily]

the only scuffed part remaining is the end void, which can be avoided as much as possible by kiting Neuro to the centre then making her a turret (surround with fences, deplete her blocks)

and attack damage I guess (mitigate with even more farming, more protection enchants means more damage reduction)

[fierce bison]

The dragon’s breath is also a fatal threat.
If Neuro is not able to avoid it, then I can only wish Vedal good luck.

[hybrid lily]

you might be able to tank it with regen and full protection gear, or by just siphoning the purple goop away (glass bottles)

invest in a pre-fight gapple before end?

[worn pelican]

see they just aren't doin all that

we can suggest these hypotheticals all we want but the obvious reality is they will not be able to take every precaution ever and play perfectly they need to just be lucky neuro doesn't die

[woven locust]

This is a great suggestion

Hope they see it though (Probably won't)

[hybrid lily]

just implement as much as is feasible, no?

if they want to win, they should actually try to win instead of sending half-geared runs

[worn pelican]

they should do the stick strat as it's the safest, and go as far with it as they're willing to stomach

[hybrid lily]

stick strat —> trading hall (for armour, pearls, possibly gg enchanted books) is just the best and safest early game

[latent zealot]

I made this without knowing this exists. Heard fishing rods might not work, would like more accounts about whether or not they do to be sure if I should remove the suggestion

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18VB9BZOl9QvfiPi4F-k7VhNbbDM98il1enJhsstvi64/edit?usp=sharing

small google sheet based graphic for them

[worn pelican]

vedal said neuro is immune to fishing rods

idr when since these streams are like days long

but he did say it

[fierce bison]

Honestly, I don't expect them to actually kill the dragon.
Even if you kick Neuro off, they're still unlikely to kill it in one life.
But entering the End is obviously possible.
Spending dozens of hours and unable to creep into the portal is too ridiculous.

[hybrid lily]

ayy pnc team building lady (choco enjoyer), we are saved, surely we have good strats to feed into this

[worn pelican]

the one time they were close they chose the worst possible end portal location instead of just finding another one

[hybrid lily]

also I think it’s just a tedium thing for them

[fierce bison]

String strat is far more efficient than the stick strat.
Players doesn’t use it nowadays is only because it was removed in 1.21.

[worn pelican]

I mean whatever works they're playing in 1.19 since that's what neuro works on

[hybrid lily]

also consider regen potions (splash the child for slower baseline healing in combat, without having to quickly react to Neuro eating damage)

[fierce bison]

Considering Neuro’s reaction speed, full protection gear may be the only way.

[latent zealot]

I don't trust them to actively hunt a ghast

[latent zealot]

I'm remembered!?

[fierce bison]

And Crelly has to hold 64 glass bottles and keep following behind her butt.

[hybrid lily]

once I saw the acronym, it rang a bell lol

[fierce bison]

Maybe they should also brew some instant health potion.

[hybrid lily]

true I forgor, someone is going to have a lava dip from that

[hybrid lily]

still better than neuro dying

crelly will become the potions master

[brave sedge]

That is a good idea. Neuro does not know how to avoid the breath circle.

[distant harness]

what's the plan if they don't find a village in time? is a complete change of plans required? or if can they follow a contingency plan until a village is found, what would that plan be?

the knockback from the dragon is a problem, and if neuro will not be riding a boat or minecart through the entire end fight, she will only be relying on mlg clutch to brace the fall, that is if the server won't lag, that is if she won't just fall into the void. So it looks like the dragon must be dissuaded from charging them, especially Neuro, at all costs. What is the plan there?

[hybrid lily]

reroll until village is the lame but most efficient option, it’s just too op

[distant harness]

my suggestion, is someone needs to hit the dragon with arrow when it is about to charge at them. But it requires Vedal and Filian to see the charge coming. The second is to flood the entire end. This won't cover the case of Neuro falling into the void, though.

Let's say they're close to one of the obsidian towers. If the dragon charges from behind those, they will not stop it in time

[hybrid lily]

refer to slow fall

also crelly can play tower defence duty

if void, it is what it is

give neuro a pearl and slowfall to maximise the chances of neuro getting the pearl in time

[distant harness]

neuro not being hookable with fishing rod might bite vedal in the ass. also can neuro pearl clutch?

[hybrid lily]

train neuro to react to “pearl to me” and everyone stays silent after command

[hybrid lily]

idk because no one (namely, vedal) has tested this before

[distant harness]

apparently baritone bot has no built-in feature to pearl clutch.

[latent zealot]

welp, should be done

if I missed something or something then uhhh, ping me but it's 6am here

[distant harness]

Wait. Baritone bot can use slime blocks...

[tight timber]

Crelly is forced into being a full-time defender for Neuro like she's some sort of VIP lmao

[distant harness]

guys, what if all they needed was to give neuro slime block(s)?

and she would automatically clutch

[tight timber]

She can water bucket clutch iirc

[distant harness]

oh right

[hybrid lily]

just convert the end into a bouncy castle imo

(where to get slime blocks without killing a lot of slimes? also same problem with water clutch)

[latent zealot]

if she can clutch then powdered snow sounds very useful

[distant harness]

is there a block clutch that is server lag-proof?

[tight timber]

That'd require them to be near a snowy biome

[distant harness]

yes baritone can do that too

[tight timber]

Too RNG dependent

Slime block clutch is the most feasible one

[distant harness]

wait. all these other clutches could be useful in the nether

[tight timber]

Yeah but the snow bucket has the same issue as the snowball

You have to be near a snowy biome to acquire them

[distant harness]

even hay bales... that's 80% fall damage reduction

[tight timber]

Which is entirely up to chance

[latent zealot]

I mention it because if they walk by the biome it's nice to have

[distant harness]

if they can find a village, they can give this to neuro

[latent zealot]

but for anti-fall damage there's like,
beds, hay bales, slime blocks, honey blocks too

[tight timber]

Hays or Slime Blocks would be the most feasible options simply because it's very common to run into villages and slimes are common mobs

Honey would require you to farm some honey which..

Yeah

[distant harness]

does somebody here know if neuro has ever done a hay bale clutch?

she should be able to do it, but just for added confidence

[worn pelican]

idt neuro has ever held a hay bale to begin with

[distant harness]

okay, that's one for vedal et al. to test

[tight timber]

Neuro can use water bucket for fall clutches

It has been showcased once

So by principle it should be possible with Hay Bale and other blocks

[analog ivy]

might turn it into a website

[latent zealot]

idk how to website so uhhh, I can't help

[brave drum]

I swear I cant see how the one that gets stuck in the Neuro Security Detachment can get any fun after 1 day

and sadly the only feasible way to win is by forcing someone to rot their mind with this task

[tight timber]

Roped in for shit and giggles
Forced to station in Neuro Escort Service

[distant harness]

Crelly needs a strategy to maximize neuro's chances of survival in caves. anyone got ideas?

[brave drum]

the only way is by making Neuro not play

[tight timber]

"the only winning move is to not play" ahh suggestion
It's true though

[distant harness]

im sure if there was a way to beat the game where neuro contributes meaningfully to beating the challenge, Vedal would pick that option

[hybrid lily]

Regarding phantoms (—> slow fall potions), I have a task that might excite Neuro: build large house with glass roof

[brave drum]

but at this moment

there isnt

[distant harness]

thats why we're here.

[tight timber]

Yeah he'd have to work on the integration so she isn't oopid anymore

[brave drum]

the MC AI is too far back to even make a plan

and any thing you plan will get dumpstered by Neuro's "Lmao xd" attitude

[tight timber]

You can't win a deathless run with an AI that has sudden violent outbursts and funny intrusive thoughts

On a random interval mind you

[hybrid lily]

Crelly can help build a big box with Neuro. Box is to keep the other mobs out, while glass roof (or even no roof, that’s better tbh) makes the phantoms eligible to spawn

That way they get a safe area to farm phantoms

[brave drum]

so in the end, the answer is to not making Neuro play with extra steps

[tight timber]

The thing with slow falling potions is that you kinda need to kill blazes for them

[brave drum]

see the issue?

[tight timber]

At which point lol lmao

[distant harness]

but if they're doing this challenge anyways, a plan for everything is a start

[tight timber]

It's really best to wait for his answer

[hybrid lily]

blaze kills are easy enough, you don’t have to send Neuro after she gets the achievement

[tight timber]

A few hours from now we'll get a definitive answer from vedal on whether or not we'll continue the series

[tight timber]

The thing with that is you can already start crafting Eyes of Ender

[hybrid lily]

well, of course. but she contributes to the positive game state at least

[tight timber]

And I doubt anyone on this team knows how to craft potions

[hybrid lily]

the thing is that if Neuro dies it doesn’t matter how many eyes you have or where you are, run resets

[hybrid lily]

just go to the wiki imo

[tight timber]

Potion crafting is very unintuitive

[distant harness]

they dont have to get slow fall immediately, they can save it for the endgame. Neuro can do with water bucket/hay bale for the nether, its just falling into lava that could be annoying

[tight timber]

You can give her potions of slow falling but it wouldn't matter if she suddenly, say, jumps into the Void

[fierce bison]

My suggestion is to find a river Neuro likes and then jump into it.
Speedrunners will skip bad seeds and start another round.

[tight timber]

The minecraft AI is fundamentally bad

[hybrid lily]

slow fall gives more reaction time to pearl

[tight timber]

You can beat the game with her in this state, don't get me wrong

But it'd require immense effort and prep

[hybrid lily]

just make a free for all with everyone fighting

more content that wwy

[brave drum]

and TONS of retries

[tight timber]

Another thing with this ragtag team is that they lack the understanding of the fundamentals of Minecraft, not to mention speedrun techniques

[distant harness]

end platform can be prepped with guardrails, Crelly can enderpearl ahead of fall-happy Neuro and put water down until Neuro changes her mind

[tight timber]

In any cases stopping it here would be a wise move

• vedal can work on the AI so she isn't oopid anymore
• the other people can learn the basics and hone the skills

But if he decides to continue then it is what it is

[distant harness]

the water won't stop Neuro if she never changes her mind, but it could make the difference

[tight timber]

Guard rails aren't a surefire way to keep Neuro safe cause remember, the dragon can destroy blocks

Unless you somehow get enough iron bars to encircle the entire island

[hybrid lily]

just kite her to mid first and encircle Neuro

[distant harness]

The dragon won't be close enough to the end platform to aggro and ruin the run

[tight timber]

If you want Neuro to physically be in The End the only option is to box her inside an obsidian box

[brave drum]

in the end it would end up being = ved and filian flooding the whole end, creating a huge bridge so neuro doesnt fall, iron bar the whole island so she doesnt fall off and always splashing neuro wiuht health potion

can we just agree that this is too "dumb" to even try

why not accept the loss instead of minmaxxing something in a way that it isnt fun

[hybrid lily]

why are you obsessed with encircling the island

why not encircle Neuro instead near mid

[tight timber]

Fireballs and whatnot

[hybrid lily]

and provide tank and sustain to Neuro to make her live

[brave drum]

knockbacks

[hybrid lily]

bottle the fireballs up

[tight timber]

That as well

[tight timber]

How many glass bottles are you planning to bring

[hybrid lily]

isn’t the idea of encircling Neuro to mitigate knockbacks / knockups

[tight timber]

Cause it's gonna be a decently long battle without beds

[tight timber]

Yes

And also avoiding the entire Enderman issue

Endermen can't attack her if they can't see her

[distant harness]

neuro falls a lot because every block she scaffolds with is a chance for server lag to unplace it. but water clutches dont occur as frequently

[hybrid lily]

many (get through desert)

[distant harness]

so there's good enough chance they stop the dragon's charges, and they beat the game before server lag stops neuros clutch

[tight timber]

So you're filling the inventory with splash potions of instaheal, glass bottles, food, swords, arrows and a bow, not to mention blocks and tools like pickaxe

It's not impossible to do but it'd be very iffy to pull off

You can't stack potions

[hybrid lily]

yes, crelly is going to be under immense inventory pressure

mainly for splash heals and bottles

[tight timber]

Tbf you can take bow and arrows off Crelly but it still wouldn't help that much

[distant harness]

if neuro ever gets hit by the dragon of course. Which only happens if Vedal or Filian doesn't shoot the dragon before it charges them

[tight timber]

Since Crelly would be playing Defender full time for Neuro

[hybrid lily]

I think Crelly should have a bow to stop dragon charges

more gunnery crew more fun

[distant harness]

the odds neuro gets hit by dragon will be quite low

its more likely she gets hit by fireball

[brave drum]

btw can we go back to the whole fun part of this?

[tight timber]

You're putting more strain on someone with a lot of strain on inv already

[brave drum]

dont you think the prep needed is insane

to the point where a second try will be demoralizing to point of not wanting to retry?

[hybrid lily]

She can run one stack of arrows plus a bow, two slots

[brave drum]

we are not talking about a DemonSouls fight, we are talking about hours upon hours of perfect gameplay to even get a try on a boss

[distant harness]

don't. the splash bottles are extra, Crelly only needs water bucket and maybe a ceiling to keep aggroed endermen from reaching neuro

[analog ivy]

yall discussing mad tactics and strategy while knowing full well that vedal is not gonna pick up everything shown here right?

[distant harness]

Crelly should focus on defending neuro specifically, Filian and Vedal will stop the dragon's charge

[distant harness]

he or crelly/filian will when they stream and read chat

[hybrid lily]

the fun is in strategising isn’t it? fighting against the odds is fun

[brave drum]

hey I am just pointing the flaws

[brave drum]

planning is fun if you can see a way for it to work out, if not you are not fighting on the correct battlefield

I see logistics you see ideals

[distant harness]

actually its better for say, Vedal to keep the dragon at bay and Filian to break the ender crystals

we need an entire section for when neuro starts digging down. I think Crelly needs to slow her mining by putting water where she is

water will be Crelly best friend, whatever neuro does

im curious, can neuro break ender crystals?

[hybrid lily]

are we finding how it will work out? you are mental boom, mister knight of despair

[hybrid lily]

probably yes, but you probably don’t want Neuro to go break the crystals

: on it (starts pillaring up to melee the crystal)

[distant harness]

Wtf guys. The baritone bot can do the entire end fight sequence... But Neuro has killed the ender dragon with Koko before, how did neuro do it?

[brave drum]

Neuro killed the dragon with a server helping

cerber keeping the dragon aggroed while everyone else died so it wouldnt reset

they wasted a long time waiting for neuro to last hit it

[brave drum]

you should do a list of the time needed to pull what you are thinking off and add the risk of one of 4 people dying randomly on the many steps needed and add the chaotic factor that is Neuro

[distant harness]

okay the neuro end fight footage from 5 days ago tells me she won't be doing too well in the end

yep

well that doesn't change the plans

if neuro could help thatd be nice

but back to the original plan it is

[hybrid lily]

They are getting some deep runs, despite not fully committing to the economy strat (e.g. leaving the human players in half iron gear)

The risk is generally worst at the start (no one has gear) and at the end (void), with low risk everywhere else if played correctly (includes giving Neuro “tasks” so she doesn’t leave life)

I think as long as the end fight has a good strat (which needs development, thus need for testing), they are looking reasonably good.

Potions can be farmed alright by one guy in nether and one guy in overworld removing sand from the desert

And one guy goes farming (probably Neuro and Crelly)

[distant harness]

if neuro is allowed to go mining instead of dillydallying among the sunflowers, then Crelly will need:

• Blocks to restrict neuro and mobs' movement/LOS
• 2 water buckets to slow down neuro and mobs' movement and neuro's mining, or save neuro in lava pools
• torches to light the area around neuro and save her from gravel falls
• shield to block neuro's friendly fire. Also she should confiscate neuro's axe before neuro goes mining because it temporarily disables shields

the potential benefit from neuro's xray could be worth it

the water bucket is so versatile, i think Crelly should prioritize getting enough iron from neuro for it...

[dawn wharf]

someone ought to tell Crelly about the fact that with a little bit of light mobs wont spawn, so she can always has stacks of torches to prevent any mobs from spawning near Neuro.

its the main cause of her deaths so far

or just breed a bunch of mobs to reach the maximum entity number

[distant harness]

if Neuro attacks Crelly, Crelly can put water down underneath herself to create distance

water bucket is #1 priority

[dawn wharf]

maybe they should teach Neuro to tame wolves, tho it might have unforeseeable consequences

[distant harness]

another thing everyone should do vs creepers is put blocks in the way to reduce the blast damage

[dawn wharf]

at least tame some cats for her to prevent creeper deaths

[hybrid lily]

no

imagine neuro hits someone and the dogs go jump on the guy

not worth the heartbreak

[dawn wharf]

its just pros and cons at this point, they automatically get rid of skeletons and hostiles. It might be worth a try. Runs ended by mobs are way more frequent than Neuro PvP

[round copper]

You have unlocked new role

[dawn wharf]

They also serve as meat shield, might be worth it honestly.

[distant harness]

#1 is water buckets, #2 is blocks. those two can cover most contingencies, and its up to Crelly to know how to use them

#3 is shields

I wonder, if neuro takes any kind of damage, will she float in water?

[hybrid lily]

probably only tame a wolf after everyone gets an acceptable amount of gear

[distant harness]

or is it specifically water damage (from drowning)

id love that to be case, so crelly can flood an unwanted staircase and poke neuro

i havent considered wolves because its unlikely they'll run into those. i recommend a plan that can be followed in the vast majority of scenarios

[distant harness]

is it okay to discuss the alternative plan if all four go together in the nether instead?

[fierce bison]

If you require Crelly and Neuro to be fully involved in the entire journey of the nether, I would say it's unlikely.
If you're just asking Neuro to participate in the fortress, just build a path, give her slow falling potions and let her in.

[distant harness]

slow falling's gonna take a while to make...

haybale for neuro + fire res seem promising

[fierce bison]

BTW, there is also a very safe plan on how to get to the fortress.
Reach the height of Y125, place a ladder and climb up continuously, then throw pearls frantically into the crevices of the top bedrock to reach the upper layer of bedrock.
Placing a portal here will connect the over world to the layer of bedrock.
Placing the next portal at the destination will take you back to the main world.
Transport Neuro through this route is definitely safe and you can also avoid the annoying sea which is dangerous to Neuro.

[distant harness]

it seems hard to use... can the portal linking be guaranteed?

[fierce bison]

But slow falling is really OP in this challenge.
Without slow falling, Crelly and Neuro can’t survive over 5 minutes in the end.
One of the most common cause of death for Neuro is falling.

[distant harness]

its not a bad plan... but slow falling probably comes after getting the blaze rods, which if they plan to take neuro with them, it won't happen... the nether looks like a nightmare to escort neuro through

does neuro move to pick up every dropped item? that could be really valuable

[small yarrow]

I think neuro has been the direct cause of every reset that happens in the nether

Whether she dies or not

So yea its perilous escorting neuro through it

[distant harness]

does neuro still target piglins at this point?

[fierce bison]

Although described as complex, it may only take five minutes to practice in a multiplayer game. It's a very basic operation.

[distant harness]

Her pathfinding AI is annoying... i saw filian watch neuro break through blocks to run toward the mobs and die, so its possible she will just break any obstacles they place her in

if her AI stopped breaking blocks once in attack range, it would be manageable, but it's clear the AI can be capable

[fierce bison]

can be guaranteed.
As long as there is only one portal on this position (difference of Y does not affect the determination of the same position. )
It can ensure the connection between the over world and the upper layer of the bedrock.

[distant harness]

that'd be great then... and they can nether travel to the stronghold too

unlikely they take this route, but it's out there

[fierce bison]

Damn, English is not my native language so the description may be too complicated.
A 5-min tutorial video on YouTube about “nether transportation” ,“nether roof ” may seem much easier.

[distant harness]

https://github.com/cabaletta/baritone/pull/4787

If we aren't able to do the clutch on the bottom block, we should still be able to place it off a wall and clutch there.
its not done yet. So neuro cant wall clutch

to recap: neuro can clutch in the nether with haybale/snow bucket/ladders, but not if she falls into lava... fireres is costly, and even if they get it on neuro, its gonna be annoying to get her outta there

[distant harness]

fishing rods dont work either

Filian has to learn how to properly clear a bastion for the gold to get fire res out of

the only hope is if neuro moves toward dropped items no matter what

i think it's saved

@fierce bison thoughts on dropping items to lure neuro away from danger spots?

since apparently neuro will always move to pickup dropped items... which i need extra confirmation

[latent zealot]

I woke up, read this and remembered something I forgot

you can clear lava potentially by just, having a shit ton of empty buckets

[hybrid lily]

do we have a source of iron farm? that seems like it would cost an unreasonable amount of iron to clear lava lakes

viable for shallow pools but other recovery plans are available

[latent zealot]

just an idea since the small AI child does have xray

[hybrid lily]

it seems like it just costs too much for dubious gain (3 iron per bucket, plus potential inventory clogging for the user)

I’d rather have her dig iron to make anvils (31 iron each) to combine enchanted armour (and enchanted books) for passive survivability

though it may be a possible idea to keep in mind

[latent zealot]

insane idea

Ender Pearl Stasis chamber for Neuro

[small yarrow]

Filian just shot this down

[latent zealot]

yeah I paid for that

—[$1.4]—→

[small yarrow]

Ic

[latent zealot]

up to them in the end of course