Minecraft Hardcore Feedback/Discussion

[pearl sentinel]

I'd like to start this by saying that this is my first discussion post, so yippee. Due to unfortunate circumstances, they could not complete the marathon within the given time (3 days), Thus, Vedal stated that they'll continue the Hardcore Minecraft marathon on a later day (E.x: the Subathon). This is quite a stupid idea, and I'll proceed to say why. Apologies for repeating this topic in advance.

• Vedal, despite knowing Neuro's capabilities, accepted (he says he didn't, but he still proceeded with it) this collab after some discussing with Filian. Vedal thought it'd be a bad idea, and yet, he still went through with it. As you may already know (and have witnessed), Neuro does not have the technological capabilities necessary to participate in these sorts of activities. She's not able to interject conversations, leading to times where she doesn't get to say anything. This issue is further enhanced due to the fact that they forced her into a call with 3 collab partners (Vedal, Filian, and Crelly). Vedal has been aware of the fact that Neuro can not handle many people at once for over 12 months (the previous subathon) and has been showing the intent to fix it but has shown no progress since then. Additionally, Neuro can't complete actions while she herself is talking, which leads to even more issues. These issues have led to their deaths so many times, leading to frustration and poor quality content. This marathon has also been a great showcase of how Neuro can't handle multiple people and why collabs in the future shouldn't be done in the same manner (unless this issue is fixed). Many people (myself included) came to see Neuro interact with the others, play the game how she wants, and contribute to the stream. But from the content that's been presented, I've only seen Neuro being used for the same things, treated like a tool. It's understandable that sometimes it's necessary for progress and stuff, but it seriously gets annoying when they keep asking her to just go get iron and wood, just like a slave. 90% of the marathon was Neuro being told to do absolutely nothing except stand still, great content, right? It didn't feel like it was a Marathon w/ Neuro, rather that she was added and treated as a liability/handicap. She was there just to be there.

• Now, let's talk about the subathon. Due to them not being able to complete the game within the given time of 3 Days, they mentioned the possibility of continuing this during the subathon. This, as I mentioned earlier, is both an extremely stupid idea and extremely low effort. The biggest issue with this is that continuing the marathon during the subathon may lead to interesting subathon ideas being eaten up. After watching this marathon for so long, I'm sure the thing people want the least is more Minecraft content where it's just them repeating the same strats, crashing out, and dying in stupid ways.

I'm sure many people enjoyed the content they received, and that most of those people likely don't watch this channel for Neuro, but for those who do, this marathon has been, well, let's say difficult to watch. Also, the amount of people who enjoyed the content does not equate to quality. Whether it's a majority or minority who enjoyed the stream does not matter, and I tried my best to stay objective in some aspects. This collab was objectively not a good idea for Neuro and should've been delayed until the proper preparations were made. You're free to counter my points, just please keep it civil, I don't want this thread to be closed before it's served its purpose.

Words from people who wanted to be added (for fun, you may ignore)

"Can you add my ideas: 1. Neuro needs to be louder, angrier and have access to a time machine. 2. Whenever Neuros not on screen all the other characters should be asking "where's Neuro?". ||Yes that is an old Simpsons reference.||"

"Did you say my idea which is that vedal is on stream no sleeping the whole time"

Adding to bullet point 2, they mentioned the possibility of continuing it tomorrow, through the dev stream, which was supposed to be for planning the subathon. Reminder that he has yet to plan anything other than 3D VR chat so far (which he still needs to work on). This makes me worry about the quality of content that'll be coming during the subathon, as they'll be preoccupied with completing the marathon instead of planning for the most important event of the year. If for some random reason he just doesn't want to do a subathon (and I doubt he won't), it still does not change the fact that it'll eat up potential streams.

What should he do? Give up or move it to post-subathon content. I don't need to say anything else for this point as it has been said in the others.

Also, despite my criticism, I did enjoy the marathon at certain points (such as the split vcs and random bits), and it did bring many great moments. I made this post to shed light upon the current issues Neuro has (which we've known of for almost 12 months) so Vedal does not repeat the same mistakes. These posts had to be separated due to the discord character limit.

TL;DR for those who don't want to read: Neuro's current capabilities are not at the level necessary for a collab with multiple collab partners, especially while playing. If this continues, it may eat through the dev stream, hurting the quality of the subathon (since he usually plans for the subathon on the final dev stream). If it does end up being moved to the subathon, it'll eat up potential interesting subathon ideas. Basically what I'm trying to say is that they should stop here and give up or move it to post-subathon content.

My apologies for adding to the number of threads relating to this situation, I've had this planned and written about 10 hours ago.

[woven river]

theres a couple threads now and people are probably gonna make more so im just gonna drop this in all of them:

there was a good number of us making complaints even when we thought this thing was only gonna last 3 days, if it starts to eat into other content, take away from upgrades and take away time that could be spent planning for neuros birthday, thats so much worse, i really think they should just call it quits and maybe try again when the minecraft ai works better

[flint tapir]

yeah I'll put my main thought in here too since there's so many of these

It's painfully evident neither vedal nor filian (not really talking about crelly since she was just roped into this), did not think this through AT ALL, they seem to be genuinely shocked they haven't beaten it yet, despite the fact they lack basic minecraft knowledge and that neuro's AI has shown zero signs of being capable of something like this, if they did ANY testing or basic research they would understand how impossible this would be not only at their current skill level without neuro, but ESPECIALLY with neuro, it just feels like no thought was put into this and it was just a spur of the moment content idea they thought would over in a stream or 2, and never even considered the fact it would take them more than 3 streams of near constant minecraft gameplay

vedal has also said multiple times this is biting into his workflow and has regularly expressed discontent at this fact yet he won't just postpone it because he committed to it, not realizing he literally has no commitment to this beyond his personal feelings, it's not like this was a subgoal or anything, filian came up with this idea and asked vedal to do it, they're both adults who should be able to admit it's fine to give up sometimes, and given how this is being received, I really doubt he'd get much negativity from tabling this idea for now, and the same goes for filian

I said this was a bad idea from the start and I'm feeling absolutely validated with that opinion as this has gone on

[white saffron]

Yep, most predictable outcome ever. (pic from another server)

[lofty scarab]

I found these streams really fun but I definitely have to agree that it should be postponed until after the subathon. This can be done whenever, subathon is only once per year

[vestal flicker]

Marathon had some good moments sure especially when Neuro gets to actually talk the majority of the time she can't do much so it gets frustrating

Also frustrating to see her get blamed for her scuff Minecraft Integration the entire time

So I would prefer it if the challenge gets postponed until the ai gets better cause rn all she can do is die to scuff

Just my opinion

[vestal flicker]

Nevermind they beat it

[dense elbow]

I love neuro

[pearl sentinel]

Still one of the worst stream ideas ever on this channel, never cook again filian.

[flint tapir]

I should make a thread that says "vedal please stop listening to filian's ideas"