Vedal, you had, and still have no idea how difficult Hardcore Minecraft really is, right?

[simple radish]

edit: thank God for the miracle of having the perfect End run in the first try and vanishing all the possible ways to die in there

I paid for the 2k characters (not really), I'll be using the entire 2k characters

[frozen berry]

yea it was a bad idea and its best to call it off before it eats into too much other shit

[velvet ice]

i think they could take some precautions to have a much better chance at one shotting the end (like stocking up on ender pearls to not have to rely on mlg watering when flung up by the dragon) and theyve got the recipe for getting to the end at this point, it just comes down to whether or not they remember to do everything they can

[surreal forge]

none of that matters when neuro decides to end herself

[quartz bay]

I agree, it's funny to see vedal and the gang constantly reset b/c of dying, but when you think about it, hardcore multiplayer requires teamwork and knowing how minecraft works

[velvet ice]

at the end of the day this is true and theres only so much someone like crelly with her limited mc experience can do

[simple radish]

it takes 1 dragon hit on Neuro or one Enderman aggro to crumble the run. You guys are underestimating the End fight, specially when an Enderman is doing 2 hearts of damage in full diamond armor

[obsidian jetty]

i remember hearing they gave neuro pumpking helmets

but still the dragon is an issue

[velvet ice]

im 99% sure neuro cant use ender pearls reactively to save herself but theres a good chance she can mlg water, the endermen thing is not an issue because pumpking helmet + someone can just place water on her

[obsidian jetty]

and she hitting endermen too

[plain sundial]

neuro had diamond armour with good enchantments last run and almost died to a single Enderman getting the jump on her

[simple radish]

but the others can and will aggro them, it happens by accident, specially with people with no experience with that fight

[obsidian jetty]

yeah that i cant do anything for

[velvet ice]

if someone stays near neuro in the end at all times and is ready to put water on her whenever an enderman is aggroed i dont think endermen are an issue at all

[zinc temple]

I know it's impossible but I would really hope that Vedal just decides for himself what he actually wants to do with this and not get pressured by fans pushing for either a continuation or giving up.

[surreal forge]

neuro is consistently the core issue, while of course everyone else has died before, the reality neuro is the only one to continually do stuff that does not progress the run in any real way, and thus has to be babysat since she basically cannot be trusted to enter a cave and not die to a random enemy or lava or whatever or look directly at a freaking enderman

she just isn't ready for this, like at all, and she is simply a liability brought here just for content, everyone can and has learned and improved, neuro has not, nor will she ever, at least not during this challenge

[simple radish]

neuro is gonna go downstream with the Endermen, they thought about this on stream

[velvet ice]

vedal is very stubborn with stuff like this (like he said like 30min ago, he said failure is not an option) so i think he genuinely wants to finish this and doesnt feel peer pressured or anything

[plain sundial]

also imagine if neuro just decided to attack one of them during the end fight, they will absolutely not be able to handle that

[zinc temple]

if that's his real personal desire and not a desire to just fulfill people's wishes I would support him fully doing that

[surreal forge]

like even bringing neuro into the nether with the entire squad protecting her is a problem, it's a coin flip whether or not she decides to jump into lava or fight an enemy off in the distance, but they clearly feel they have to bring her for the content

[quartz bay]

I wonder why he's not putting this as a subathon

[zinc temple]

I don't wanna insult anyone but I do detect a hint of entitlement with some things that are being said about this

[quartz bay]

or is this actually the subathon

[surreal forge]

where

I feel like everything I have said are clear and obvious issues

complete facts

maybe some opinons thrown in

[velvet ice]

ok heres how i see it: theyll have full diamond armor and like iron swords or something going in, its not like the water has to stay there for 20 seconds or something, its more like a 3-5 second thing where they place water temporarily and kill the enderman thats aggroed to her, and this will be enough as there will very rarely be more than 1 enderman aggroed to her at once as long as shes wearing a pumpkin

[vital moon]

we've seen the Ender Dragon fight last subathon and I don't actually see it going any better this time, you just need to rewatch it to come to conclusion that it's not gonna work

[simple radish]

I mean, it's nice to talk the perfect possible run and all, but we know that's not gonna happen, not after the 10th try at least. They've never been to the end before with her

[plain sundial]

we even saw vedal take neuro to the end during the public server stream

[surreal forge]

yeah that fight went terribly

[zinc temple]

Ok so some people are saying this cuts into subathon content right, if Vedal himself has an issue with that that's on him to decide when he wants to cut it off, but for example if Vedal even wanted to cancel the subathon completely wouldn't that be within his right as well?

So I don't fully buy any argument that relies upon saying that because he must deliever on the subathon he must end things here as a reason.

[grand lance]

Some tips:

1. Protection I (1XP) iron armor is very close to projectile/fire protection diamond and it would be way faster to get every attempt

2. Give neuro only high saturation food and a lot of it, you can buy cooked porkchops from butcher villagers or golden apples from farmers ( level them up with emeralds from stick trading)

3. You can enclose the blaze spawner, just build a cube with walls 4 blocks away in each direction and a ceiling 2 blocks up

4. Get fire res before taking neuro to the fortress everytime, either by trading with pigs or by killing magma cubes and manually brewing it

5. Brew throwable healing/regen potions and have everyone carry some in their inventory to swarm neuro with them at any sign of danger

6. Flood the end island before anyone else goes inside, the dragon will launch you up in the air and no one is going to be landing water bucket clutches reliably

7. Get the best bows you can (Power III-IV) for the end fight to finish it as fast as posible

[velvet ice]

well, i agree that what i described is probably not gonna happen, but not because of it being difficult to do but more likely because they panic / they just dont think about this enough before entering the end

[simple radish]

but he himself said that, that he has work to do and can't do that all month and no one here said that either

[surreal forge]

literally nobody brought up the subathon but you, and speaking for myself here idrc if he does the subathon or not I don't want this to bleed into any content period

[plain sundial]

this kinda stuff is why I think that idea they had of getting a Minecraft pro to join the team could actually be a good idea

[vital moon]

yeah, and they had much better equipment then, which would take hours to get every time

[obsidian jetty]

get dream

[grand lance]

Yeah, even with a pro getting neuro to survive the ordeal would still be a challenge

[pastel folio]

great idea

[little forge]

Also empty bottles crelly and filian could just dodge the dragon breath aoe but neuro can't realistically so filling bottles with the breath to make it dissapear faster is their best option

[zinc temple]

Then he himself should know that best right? If he decides himself to cut things off that's perfectly reasonable.

[icy iron]

It's also gonna just be horrible for him, but I don't think he would like fans trying to advise on his personal wellbeing.

[zinc temple]

Meta backseating

[obsidian jetty]

he can do whatever but people still can critizice him for doing it

[velvet ice]

i think youre worrying a little too much about them taking too long for this rn, id say we should let them get to the end once (im confident thatll happen tomorrow) and they can come to the conclusion that its either not worth it and vedal will go back to work, or they think its doable and do it a few days later. i cant imagine that theyre still on this a week from now after they had 2 runs where they literally entered the stronghold today alone

[obsidian jetty]

it has been 3 days and they havent gotten to the end once????

[surreal forge]

yeah I'm sorry I don't see this situation happening

[velvet ice]

theyre obviously getting way better runs than they were day 1 and 2

[surreal forge]

yeah and then neuro dies to something random

it literally does not matter how good they get

[simple radish]

"WAIT WAIT, WE GOT THERE ONCE, WE CAN DO IT AGAIN"

8 hours later

...

[surreal forge]

what don't you understand

[obsidian jetty]

yeah but they are also getting fatigued from just playing silly ammounts of minecraft

it just takes one ram for the dragon to propulse neuro to the sky to end an hour of progress

[surreal forge]

like yes, I agree, vedal, filian, and crelly are getting better as they play, but once again, neuro is not and is consistently a liability, she stagnates while the others improve and have to carry her

[velvet ice]

idk agree to disagree then, i dont think either of us will convince each other of what we think here but i do believe that theyre getting better at handling neuro as time goes on and that they have the strat for getting deep runs down so we'll just have to see ig

[little forge]

They got close two times but one of them they got horrible rng on the stronghold spawn and the second time today vedal and filian took way too long trying to find the stronghold so crelly eventually had a problem keeping neuro entertained and well you know what happens

[zinc temple]

They know how fatigued they are personally better than any person on the internet does trying to figure it out from tone of voice. I guess that's my main point, they are in the best position to decide whether to continue or not and we all have less information than they do and are trying to somehow advise them on how they feel.

[surreal forge]

like that last run they straight up just threw up their hands and said "there was nothing we could do" because how can they stop neuro deciding to 1v1 a blaze and losing? they can't, and I have seen zero reason to think otherwise

[obsidian jetty]

im not guessing from tone of voice im guessing because playing minecraft for 24 hours is a lot mentally

im just saying as they are getting better at the game they are getting a worse mental state

[simple radish]

I don't know, watching someone try to do an impossible task ad infinitum is not a good thing to witness

[errant zenith]

By hour you mean 3 hours

[surreal forge]

this idea was just bad from first concept and tbh I'm feeling very validated it's going as poorly as I thought it would

[simple radish]

5*

[vital moon]

please rewatch last year's Ender Dragon fight, it took more people with better equipment multiple tries having ability to respawn next to End Portal, slowly chipping dragon's health to finally kill it, this time they have to do it all at once, which I just don't see happening

[obsidian jetty]

vedal fillian or crelly arent one cyclying the dragon

they arent frame perfect

[simple radish]

and Filian doesn't want to use beds to kill the dragon, because she considers it cheating

[zinc temple]

I would agree they do seem tired. If it is the case that they are really tired then it's very likely they just give up in which case it's done.

[little forge]

The moment neuro gives the minecraft AI an action to do its really difficult to stop her there was even a moment where she was like trying to go to vedal and then crelly told her to follow her and like she started rapidly looking right and left like it didn't know what to do

[surreal forge]

they also had way more people, there was a whole moment where cerber was soloing the ender dragon so its health wouldn't reset from a tpk, and she still ended up dying before anyone could get back causing its health to reset anyway

[obsidian jetty]

i was gonna say they will take 3 deaths there to finish it. with that mentality atleast 20 now

[simple radish]

and that was Normal mode btw

[velvet ice]

i dont think they couldve done anything in that moment considering they didnt account for neuro doing that, but they discussed that particular death a lot and they dont want to let blazes out of the cage again (i know they CAN spawn outside as well but theres also the option of finding an enclosed spawner, which they also talked about). i want it to be clear that i think this is very difficult and that i thought that this was a stupid idea going into the marathon but id let them play for a few more days before vedal is like f this i have things to attend to

[little forge]

Don't think they even know they have to do critical hits to do actual good damage

[zinc temple]

But I sort of only see a couple outcomes:

1. Vedal does what he wants to do (continue OR end)
2. Vedal feels compelled to do something (continue OR end) to please fans

I feel like making a big deal about this whole challenge only increases the 2nd outcome. If there was a bunch of threads here trying to convince him to continue I would have the same thing to say to them.

[surreal forge]

as I see it while getting to the end at all is a monumental achievement, it doesn't matter since it all resets if they die and make any mistake, and guess who makes the most mistakes 👉 👈

[short nexus]

Wasn't she talked into allowing beds?

[vital moon]

and then neuro decides it's time for "lava therapy"

[simple radish]

idk, I didn't watch all of the 60 hours, was she?

[velvet ice]

they will be way more careful about it when they get there now, but i agree that itll be difficult regardless. will it be too difficult, we will see

[simple radish]

I'm on the opinion that those 3 should've beat a run without Neuro first, they wouldn't be able to even without her

[little forge]

They are constantly carrying multiple beds so maybe yes?

[vital moon]

only for sleeping

[simple radish]

those beds were for sleeping, they would need like, 6 or so beds to kill it

[short nexus]

Filian wanted no beds at all (no sleeping) and they've been sleeping.

[surreal forge]

as I see it we're just voicing our opinions, there have been a few threads about this topic and pretty much all of them are negative

[zinc temple]

I mean that's fair I can't blame you for it, I'm also just voicing my opinion on your opinion

[little forge]

Again, considering they know how to critical explosion with them

[short nexus]

I don't remember if she accepted end beds.

[surreal forge]

that's not what they mean, they mean using beds in The End since they explode there which causes massive damage to the Ender Dragon, and has been a well known strat

I'm pretty sure filian has never agreed to using beds in The End

[obsidian jetty]

the beds exploding is considered intentional game design it aint cheating

[little forge]

And it requires actual skill it has a timing for it to actually damage

[short nexus]

I was saying Filian didn't want beds for either and she caved on at least one of them.

[velvet ice]

id guess that they see using beds in the end as kind of anticlimactic because neuro wouldnt help with killing the dragon at all, remember that vedal was testing her ability to hit the dragon with a bow less than a week ago

[obsidian jetty]

and since multi pretty dangerous if more than one person stays too close

[surreal forge]

I'm sure she could be convinced to use bed explosions

she's clearly desparate

[obsidian jetty]

then make neuro do the bed explosions

[zinc temple]

I mean honestly if the question was how to make things easier for them I would definitely say allowing all forms of ingame cheesing or exploits is fine.

though I don't know MC enough to think of any that might actually be useful here

[surreal forge]

neuro won't help in killing the dragon anyway, during the 24hr mc server, vedal teleported neuro to the end with an ender dragon on 1-3 shots of health left and she got maybe 1 shot in

[velvet ice]

i phrased that poorly, i meant that if neuro even hits the dragon exactly one time, theyd be happy with it and thats what the bow would be good for

[surreal forge]

oh sure I would agree with that yes

she can get a single shot in

and then they can bed it

[simple radish]

like the sibling playing with the disconnected joystick

[velvet ice]

but idk what they would think about neuro hitting the dragon with a bow AND using beds afterwards, id personally be on board

[vital moon]

: "Void therapy time!"

[simple radish]

https://tenor.com/view/fall-kirby-drop-falling-deep-gif-17081698

[icy iron]

Sometimes people need the opinions of others.

[velvet ice]

i dont think she will ever jump into the void on purpose, basically every fall damage death shes had has been just her trying to do something else (like trying to kill the blaze) or the server lagging and not letthing her place a block when speedbridging. watch me be wrong

[simple radish]

the literal last time she entered the Nether "lava therapy time" Vedal was fast at that time

[velvet ice]

i was just gonna correct myself on not mentioning lava, i dont know how neuros minecraft ai works and what kind of information she exactly has but id imagine the incentive to not jump into an endless pit is a lot higher than the incentive to not dip your toes in lava. the fact that shes went for lava on PURPOSE multiple times is worrying though

[surreal forge]

she LITERALLY did this during the subathon

she tried it IMMEDIEATELY upon enterting

I cannot make this clear enough unless they get into a boxed cave in their end spawn neuro will attempt to jump off or just fall because she's silly

[velvet ice]

like, she willingly jumped into the void with no other thing in mind or she tried to do something else while doing so? also i really really think that even if it was on purpose that it wont happen again in the same way, vedal has to had thought about that

[surreal forge]

I'm sure it was some kind of pathfinding issue

but she still has those so like

idt it's been fixed at all, and have seen so reason to think otherwise during this whole marathon

[plain sundial]

vedal said that she was still storing coordinates of places from previous attempts so who knows what messed up pathing she would try during the end

[velvet ice]

outside spawn in the end is mostly problematic because of the dragon shooting the ball thing that deals magic damage (like how they got squad wiped in the subathon) but i think neuro jumping to the void is not that likely

[zinc temple]

That's fair, though if Vedal truly wanted a more accurate idea of the swarms opinions rather than the very anecdotal style here, it would take a proper poll or some such.

[warm sigil]

I think they should try beating minecraft with neuro on non-hardcore once to see how difficult it would be to do a hardcore run

[plain sundial]

give neuro creative mode

neuro please put the end portal frame back

[winged raft]

neuro with beds in end probably dies (even if the bed is used by someone else, she just walks into the AoE)

[velvet ice]

nah theyll be more careful than that surely

[warm sigil]

honk-mimim💥AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[velvet ice]

also they wont let neuro have beds in her inventory in the nether so i imagine theyll do the same in the end

[winged raft]

magic damage —> neuro gets full prot 4 gear, gets a splash regen potion (and a splash slow fall potion for falls), so she stands in the AoE without dying while someone screams for Neuro to follow

[winged raft]

idk if this works btw, someone test it

[errant zenith]

Dragon breath ignores armor

it takes 3 hearts regardless

[velvet ice]

yeah idk if trying to make neuro so stacked that she can just live through the magic damage is the play but i at least learned that the protection enchantment reduces magic damage, i had no idea

[winged raft]

does it bypass protection

I think only a select few things bypass protection, and those are either easily avoided (hunger), or will end runs regardless of prep (void, warden ranged attack)

[errant zenith]

I guess prot does protect her

[velvet ice]

from the minecraft fandom wiki

[winged raft]

full protection 4 is 64% less damage taken so it may be a worthy investment for Neuro

[errant zenith]

That will take

6 hours

per run

[velvet ice]

the thing is though that they get their diamond armor from trading and itll usually be prot 1 or prot 2, theyre not getting prot 4

[simple radish]

oh yeah, let's make the attempt time from 5 hours to 50 hours, and then to someone else to die at the end anyway

[winged raft]

or run less stacks of protection, 32% is good enough (full prot 2, should be doable with lucky armoursmith and librarian)

[errant zenith]

Full prot 4 is just not feasible

[winged raft]

it’s the ultimate desperation tactic

[errant zenith]

4 extra hours for the enchantment just so neuro takes 1.5 damage instead of 3 from 1 attack

[simple radish]

people here thinking about the perfect possible situation, we all know that's not gonna happen. I too have the 0.00004% chance of winning the lottery, that won't happen.

[obsidian jetty]

the runs need consistency

neuro needs to be consistently good or atleast average

[plain sundial]

the stick economy will never recover...

[surreal forge]

if they win it will be sheer luck because it will be a run neuro decided not to do something stupid, and they all locked in and beat the dragon

[simple radish]

"oh but if Neuro hits 100% of the bow shots and kill every enderman in the island and break all the crystals with no damage taken, they can win this" yeah sure

[winged raft]

I think they should do a test run for the end first

[obsidian jetty]

probs would be offstream if anything

[winged raft]

with sample optimistic gear, just so they know what they need

[plain sundial]

it's too late for any "offstream" now

[simple radish]

the offstream stuff should've been done before they started all of this

[surreal forge]

they obviously did zero testing beyond maybe testing neuro connecting to the server

[velvet ice]

id say its more like: if they get a good spawn platform (not too far away from the end island) neuro survives for 5 minutes without getting flung up by the dragon, and moving out of a fireball whenever shes told to, they have a pretty good shot at it

but even those happening is quite low probability

[simple radish]

the entry requirement of this challenge should be "can those 3 beat it together first try? if yes, bring Neuro"

[surreal forge]

personally given their mc knowledge them doing it without neuro would still be difficult imo

not as hard ofc but still hard

[simple radish]

yeah, it'd take them around 3 days even without Neuro

[obsidian jetty]

would be a 7 out of 10 in dificuluty meanwhile with neuro is a 9

[simple radish]

11 since it's just not possible

[surreal forge]

more like 20

it would be a miracle

[obsidian jetty]

if they use beds would be 9

11 if they dont

[simple radish]

that's like wanting Neuro to beat Dark Souls 1 deathless ~~Or Claude to beat Pokémon ~~

[winged raft]

I think it’s 10, you need to micro Neuro perfectly (which is almost impossible)

[pine pulsar]

it’d be possible to have her automatically move out of dragon’s breath like with the floating out of water when she starts drowning right? that should make it a lot more manageable

[velvet ice]

without knowing how the code looks like, its hard to say whether implementing this would be easy or if it wouldnt be possible at all, like im guessing that the "no bubbles -> hold spacebar" part of her code is a lot simpler than what "taking magic damage -> move out of fireball" would be

[steep ocean]

What even is entitlement anymore
You tell me

I can't see them beating Minecraft Hardcore (Deathless at that) any time soon

Not with the Minecraft integration being such a huge liability

They can progress and go as far as they possibly can but all it takes is Neuro doing something silly and dying to send them all back to square 1

[zinc temple]

Any point about wanting them to stop not because its what they want (which they could) but mainly because it might possibly affect a subathon that he's not contractually obligated to run in any specific way for any specific length with any specific content

[steep ocean]

This was a bad idea and Vedal himself knew it but chose to roll with it anyways

[steep ocean]

The thing is he himself wants one and it's pretty clear at this point that it's gonna happen

[pastel folio]

are u throwing "entitlement." at every criticism of vedal? no offense, just wanna know

[steep ocean]

Vedal has a track record of being horrible at planning content for subathon (last year minecraft was the bulk of the content)

[zinc temple]

I specified here exactly what I considered entitlement, the specific idea of just complaining for subathon reasons as opposed to anything else or that as their main reason for complaint

[naive birch]

1. shields are mandatory equipment for everyone. each member shall have an extra shield for redundancy
2. the delegated defender for neuro can block her immediate surroundings to limit contact with mobs. we need an entire section for the babysitter's strategy
3. constantly keep neuro on the move to limit regional difficulty scaling.
6. an entire section can be dedicated to End strategy. but summary is that glass bottles can scoop the purple clouds to prevent neuro's death, enderpearls can be farmed and distributed (even at the End) to mitigate ender dragon knockback, neuro can wear pumpkin. good preparation can solve hard challenges
   7a) when neuro is...
   at sea surface: doors/signs (shift-click)
   Under a deep sea: constantly using water bucket where neuro's head is, maybe pull neuro toward the floor with fishing pole??
   7b, 7d) water where she might fall, 2 buckets recommended for coverage and sustainability even when neuro is scaffolding (babysitter must alternate between water sources).

If she crosses bridges in the nether?
Above ground: 2 men required (bridge guide and fall protector). Put fire res on her and fall prorector; if she falls, guide pulls the fishing rod and protector places a pressure plate on the ground and lava bucket on top where she will fall (as a nether safety net).
Above lava: 1 man required (bridge guide), but fire res isnt immediately needed. If neuro falls, guide jumps after her and splash fire res on both of them. Should have enough time to plan the full rescue operation from there.
To avoid requiring these escort maneuvers, strong control of neuro's inventory is encouraged: confiscate her pickaxes and blocks when going to the fortress, so that she can't break through guardrails (which must be prepared ahead of her arrival btw) and fall off

7g) can be prevented by having neuro ride a boat or minecart. the only strategy if neuro's free to roam the end won't work because more players with fishing rods are required to nullify the knockup

[steep ocean]

And he himself said that this is negatively affecting his ability to work on things iirc

[zinc temple]

and I trust him to know his own limit on when he will cut things off if he wants to

he also said thus far at least

he does want to complete the challenge as well

[steep ocean]

I don't want this to drag any content on this channel down, it should be ended soon
The longer he drags this on the more he suffers

Dude can just take an L now, try and work on the AI so it's less of a deadweight and come back later

[zinc temple]

I think he knows how much he is suffering or having fun better than we do

[pastel folio]

fun fact: thats my concern too + the sanity of the gang doing this

if you call this entitlement, then my thread should be "entitlement" cus im asking a question about the subathon regarding the continuity of the hardcore marathon

[zinc temple]

Well just like how you likely consider your thread a fair critique, I consider this a fair critique as wel

I do think it is a little entitlied, for example if due to any personal reasons

[steep ocean]

Again, all of that preparation yet all it takes is Neuro feeling silly and deciding to kill someone for shit and giggles to end a good run

[zinc temple]

he had to cancel or change the subathon

would that be grounds to be upset at him?

[pastel folio]

yes

fym cancel neuro's birthday????

😭

[steep ocean]

It's possible but taking the L and stopping here so he can take the time to improve the integration and come back at it another day is a way better solution

[naive birch]

that's what strong control of neuro's inventory is for. Blocking access to axes will render shields sufficient defense, and blocking access to wood will block access to axes

[zinc temple]

obviously a very extreme example

[errant zenith]

I'm SURE people will take that well

[steep ocean]

It's been 3 days of this

People are getting that Minecraft fatigue, not just them

[zinc temple]

That could also be true, maybe he could do a poll for it if that's a serious concern

[steep ocean]

It's getting to them and it shows on stream dawg

If they know any better they should call it quit now

Even with all the necessary methods to keep Neuro shenanigans as minimally damaging as possible things can and will go wrong

Spending too much effort worrying about Neuro can lead to them getting ambushed by mobs for example

[naive birch]

if we're to look at probability, server lag has many chances to interrupt every attempt by neuro to scaffold. water clutches will be few and far between and happen mostly at start of game, so they needn't be accounted for; all Crelly needs to do before nether is have blocks, have water if neuro goes mining is have buckets and doors/signs. Blocks can be 2m high, but leave an opening for water to move through and slow the mobs' approach

[steep ocean]

That or Neuro just push people off a cliff or something

[zinc temple]

I guess I mostly already said my piece in this thread, I just have a different view on it. I only really think 2 things:

1. The streamers themselves know their own limits/how much fun they having/life responsibilities better than us so I think we should trust them to make that judgement

2. If Vedal does want to complete the challenge I wouldn't get upset about the potential of it "negatively affecting the subathon" since we aren't owed anything specific for the subathon

[steep ocean]

Personally I wouldn't want another subathon to happen but that's up to him, and he himself kinda leaked that there will be one this year
In my opinion this shouldn't drag out any longer as it would affect heavily the content on the channel in general as he wouldn't be able to work on improvements and all that (not to mention the VRChat integration for Neuro that he wants to finish)

But again that's his choice

[naive birch]

desert biome, uhm i think they should reset asap

[pastel folio]

"happy birthday neuro! we're gonna celebrate your birthday with even more hardcore minecraft. ofc filian and crelly will be joining us"

there goes OTHER potential content

[zinc temple]

ok on a personal level I would not enjoy that either

[icy iron]

On the same token, he's not necessarily owed his viewers subscription fees, if no one ever comments on what they value in the content, then he has no warning if people stop watching.

[zinc temple]

yeah and he's a smart guy, business is likely factoring into his considerations behind the scenes for sure

but again, that's his judgement to make

[steep ocean]

This
The notion that "streamers own viewers nothing" is a stupid idea that does nothing but serve as an excuse to shield people from criticism

You're being paid, so you're expected to care about the quality of your content

It's the bare minimum you should do

[zinc temple]

there's a difference between saying "if you donate I will do this" and then not fulfilling a promise

[steep ocean]

That's true

[zinc temple]

and open ended content that might be devisive but isn't lying or scamming

[naive birch]

can we all just like make a document of an entire guide for all 4 players? Just to give them the best chances of beating the challenge

it's the best we can do, right?

[steep ocean]

Regardless, I hope he will wrap this up soon, there are still problems outside of Minecraft

[icy iron]

if we do, better get it done fast.

[naive birch]

we have like 6 hours. whos hosting the document?

[zinc temple]

Well we'll get the answers soon enough, either they are still grinding away tomorrow or they aren't

[steep ocean]

cough cough art review occasionally breaking

[naive birch]

brb badminton

[naive birch]

can be public google docs

whoever can contribute should do it

maybe ask staff here to organize it?

[surreal forge]

you think they will read any of it?

[icy iron]

They will if they're desperate enough.

He was asking the others to look up strats before

[winged raft]

can we also get a part for Neuro

[icy iron]

so a guide doc would probably be well recived

[steep ocean]

She's being treated like a liability

What makes you think she'll be actively involved in the whole process

[surreal forge]

the part for neuro is she just gets locked in a box

[steep ocean]

I'm surprised they haven't attempted that

[surreal forge]

because they want neuro to be involved in the content

this is something I've stated multiple times but they clearly want neuro involved in some way

bringing neuro the the nether AT ALL proves this

like if they just wanted to win and not involve neuro they would make it so she never enters the nether for any reason and only enters the end

but they want her involved so they bring because otherwise why is she here?

like that last run for example, did they REALLY need to bring neuro into the fortress? vedal and filian literally could have done it all by themselves while leaving crelly on babysit duty and it would have gone way better

[glossy leaf]

neuro treated like a dog/tool and it's PEAK CONTENT GUYS
/sarcasm

[surreal forge]

hot take but I actually don't mind them telling her to find iron since it means she you know, contributes, and isn't too dangerous mostly

[lusty condor]

Better idea, slap her onto a VC with Evil, give them both vision and let them react to Vedals gameplay

[surreal forge]

your tomfoolery suggests this is a troll statement, but this would have been a better idea unironically

[lusty condor]

I would love too, I left it as a tomfoolery cause Vedal would never do this sadly

[naive birch]

maybe. got any better ideas than being a downer?

[surreal forge]

I think realizing it's clearly not working and to stop doing something they're clearly starting to hate so they (moreso vedal tbh) can focus on other projects is good advice tbh

[feral latch]

Not sure why i keep reading messages in this channel, maybe for fun
But I'll just wait and see what Vedal says tonight.

[surreal forge]

but you know call it being a downer I guess

[naive birch]

well vedal has decided against that, but you can persist if that makes you happy

[surreal forge]

yeah and it's obviously to his detriment, but fuck me for caring about that I guess right?

[naive birch]

i also think bringing neuro along for the ride is entertaining. but i think we can all see it's clearly tough on them

[surreal forge]

yeah... which is why I want them to stop....

[naive birch]

they were simply underprepared to beat this challenge without dragging it out

[surreal forge]

I'm confused do you agree with me now?

because you are literally expressing my exact points

[lusty condor]

They simply cant beat this challenge in a feasible time frame due to Neuro s limitations tbf

[surreal forge]

even without neuro it would have been a challenge

[naive birch]

itd be easier without neuro yes, she has the most deaths of anyone and specifically required someone to keep an eye on her at all times

i do wonder if its the sunk cost that compels vedal to continue the challenge

but i guess, half of swarm can convince him to move on and half can try helping them beat it

[surreal forge]

it clearly is

[naive birch]

im just a ride or die mf

[severe linden]

The biggest thing is, they are stubborn, like ultra stubborn, while still not really being knowledgeable about mc. If there was someone teaching them or helping them improve, we wouldn’t be in this situation. There was no pre stream prep or practice from vedals end it seem. Even if the 4 of them only practices the end fight with neuro and keeps spawning back in to try to see if they could do it

[surreal forge]

personally I think the side making suggestions is obviously helpful and their hearts are in the right place and all that, but I just think it's an exercise in futility because neuro will just do something moronic and make all the prep meaningless

[naive birch]

there is a way to prepare for all worst case scenarios, which should be enough to beat the game.

its true

even if neuro does the worst things one after another

[lusty condor]

I think the other that dont want to help actually want other content than this

[narrow juniper]

Vedal isn't batman

[lusty condor]

Some of us aren't here for vedal content after all

[naive birch]

maybe it's such a document that would convince vedal to change plans

seeing how much prep is needed

[surreal forge]

I mean that's what I want the main reason I am watching this is because neuro is involved

[naive birch]

its unusual of him isnt it, he's usually Corpa

[naive birch]

he wants to be

[narrow juniper]

Alas

[naive birch]

maybe that future actually exists where we will remember how they managed to beat this challenge

i dont like daydreaming though. it's either he pauses/stops the challenge or becomes batman

[naive birch]

hmm.. what if they actually do read that ultimate neuro escort strategy document...

imean crelly takes suggestions from chat

if such a document allows them to bring neuro with them throughout the nether and the end and beat the game that way... would they resist...?

[surreal forge]

they seem to already be at the point of giving up so it wouldn't take much more to convince them

[naive birch]

what if they continue tomorrow?

then would we say all this pessimism wouldve been better spent giving them advice whether in chat or in these organized documents?

[winged raft]

tbh if people want to doom, let them, there’s enough people giving advice

I’m just a firm believer in not mental booming

[surreal forge]

I don't see what I'm saying as dooming, I feel that I'm being very realistic and offering genuine advice

I truly do think they are forcing themselves to complete this despite them actively hating it out of some misguided sense of pride and I want them to stop because it's having a negative effect on their mental health and in vedal's case, his other projects are suffering because of it as well

[narrow juniper]

The thing is, there are a billion "rules" they could bend to get this done (like just not involving Neuro in anything). It's all up to them and their personal opinions of what's fair for this challenge, and they never set out what those rules were ahead of time. So it's a personal decision for them. Our advice might help them make a more informed choice, if they read it.

[severe linden]

do they even have any rules other than neuro needs to be there for blaze rods and end fight

[surreal forge]

not really

they were kinda making stuff up as they went along

[narrow juniper]

Even those weren't rules that were written down. They just think it'd be lame not to have her there

[surreal forge]

filian for example was against sleeping which vedal and crelly seemed shocked about confirming this was not communicated beforehand, although filian ended up relenting on this and they just sleep the night away if possible now

[severe linden]

obv its not written down but if they play like that, its pretty much a rule

[narrow juniper]

I wonder if the sleeping makes it harder due to bed communication. If they focused on lighting up an area during the day and mining at night safely.....

[plain sundial]

the only rule is STREAM ENDS WHEN WE BEAT MINECRAFT HARDCORE

[surreal forge]

and even that one might get broken

[steep ocean]

Well then you'd have the problem of Neuro getting harassed by Phantoms

[surreal forge]

she should be fine in a boxed cave though right

[steep ocean]

Ofc you can just get Neuro underground then

[steep ocean]

She should be fine boxed for the whole run and occasionally fed

If they really want to beat Minecraft with scuffed Neuro MCAI

[plain sundial]

I wont be up when they come back but someone should try and bait neuro into changing the stream title, then maybe vedal will be convinced to stop the challenge

if she gets some solo time at the start again

[surreal forge]

I tried to spam it in chat but no dice

guess neuro couldn't see it

[narrow juniper]

It never defines the "we"

[surreal forge]

if he allows neuro to read chat I'll try again

[steep ocean]

Just leave Neuro in a box and occasionally feed her

[plain sundial]

some highlighted messages got through right at the start

[severe linden]

i personally think the ideal comp is two people protecting neuro, not one, but filian is useless at defending cause she has adhd and if vedal defends, filian might not be able to progress

[narrow juniper]

I had that idea too but maybe it's locked....

[severe linden]

#1447538411740074035 i think at the very least they should practice the end fights before making any decisions regarding this matter

[narrow juniper]

Filian can probably beat the game one out of 5 or so tries at this point imo. Not good.

[severe linden]

20% success rate isnt the issue, its that she takes so damn long progressing even by herself, its not compatible with this challenge

[steep ocean]

The thing with Neuro is her decision making is very slow
And once she's made a move it's very hard to stop her

[severe linden]

even a 1% success rate but failures take 20 min each compared to rn which is like 10% success rate if GENEROUS and failures are 5 hours per chance would be much quicker to complete (2000 min vs 3000 min)

[severe linden]

neuro wont be able to do it even with quick reaction times, her minecraft decision making logic is about as barebones as it gets

either path to mine, path to attack, path to move to location, etc

[steep ocean]

Dedicating Crelly to full time Tower Defense gameplay is already a bit iffy but it's necessary

Neuro can't even have a weapon just to prevent her from murdering people in cold blood and ruin the entire attempt

[narrow juniper]

I think she can farm and fish too!

[severe linden]

and somehow out of everything, the one thing vedal didnt give her is a "survive" command

like run away, eat, press space to not DROWN lol

[steep ocean]

She lacks self preservation instincts

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1374986967984377934.png?quality=lossless&name=LULE&size=48

She's the opposite of PirateSoftware lmao

[narrow juniper]

You'd think that if she has a function to go pick up anything dropped on the ground overriding everything else he could add in an override to go run and dig into a wall when under half health

Wouldn't help in the ender dragon fight though

[severe linden]

lets be real even a eat food if ever under half health will be better than current situation

[rocky osprey]

neuro definitely tries this at times, she frequently will try to eat something inbetween hitting a mob when she takes damage, the main issue is she cannot kite mobs at all and just locks into a 1v1 until she wins or dies

[severe linden]

i did see it happen a couple times she fought the zombies and she did hold her ground so yeah, you may be right

but i think she might have other things overwriting it too

[simple radish]

I'VE NEVER BEEN SO HAPPY IN BEING WRONG IN MY LIFE

[surreal forge]

the stupid idea is over

[velvet ice]

well, there you go guys

[south needle]

[south needle]

↓

[warm sigil]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAH

[surreal forge]

hopefully they never attempt something like this again

[south needle]

Hopefully they attempt something like this again

[surreal forge]

https://tenor.com/view/liam-neeson-i-will-find-you-taken-gif-5593626

[kindred pebble]

I'm so happy it's over

[naive birch]

ceiling above neuro is the secret MVP

[kindred pebble]

Thank god this doesn't bleed

[zinc temple]

Fortune favours the bold

[naive birch]

it blocked the fireballs that the obsidian pillars didn't

if a fireball hits neuro the run is over

[south needle]

https://tenor.com/view/neuro-sama-ai-vtuber-fear-anxiety-gif-3553976183009416484

[viscid path]

Filian was so close to dying once, 1 more shot and..

[naive birch]

I KNOW

run of a lifetime

right there

[surreal forge]

anyway final thoughts this idea was really dumb and I'm glad they finally won by deciding to lock neuro under a pillar

[naive birch]

1.5 hearts away

we asked for a miracle and we got it

https://tenor.com/view/martin-scorsese-absolute-cinema-absolute-cinema-meme-martin-scorsese-meme-martin-scorsese-absolute-cinema-gif-7188464701423971028

[naive birch]

Vedal saved Filian there holy fck

[simple radish]

I'm glad that everything fell into place and every possible chance of dying was saved, like the 3 MLG's, Filian almost dying to the Enderman

[naive birch]

Vedal managed to find the Enderman bodying Filian through the server lag

the server lagged while the Enderman was spam hitting Filian

OMFG

BRO

[peak imp]

sit down

[surreal forge]

🧍‍♂️

[zinc temple]

🧎‍♂️

[fierce silo]

https://tenor.com/view/how-you-felt-hero-tough-tough-guy-how-you-felt-after-saying-that-gif-12464623776561746518

[surreal forge]

so tuff mr turt

[burnt stump]

I have never once doubted Vedal or Neuro in my entire life. From the very beginning, I’ve always believed in them completely. I did not support any comments questioning their ability to beat hardcore minecraft. I have no involvement with doubter activities in neurotic-neurons.

[surreal forge]

lock all these threads

[errant zenith]

Improve Neuro for collab settings

[pastel folio]

Lmao

Anyways congrats on ur victory, hope ya impove neuro mc after all of this

[mossy pulsar]

I'm curious how the things she's learned from this will influence her normal Minecraft gameplay

[errant zenith]

A lot, such as following people more

[viscid path]

Was listening to Crelly's victory speech/fest for a while and she said she had access to Neuro's panel to better see when she was locking on something.
Hopefully she didn't do more, like cancelling her actions (Crelly didn't say that, I'm just wondering)

[grave axle]

it's NN they're always negative lmao

[surreal forge]

if cancelling actions was possible vedal would have been doing it

[grave axle]

no it's not, disregard my dumb self

[surreal forge]

an nn hater reconsidering their opinion?

[grave axle]

gotta delete the evidence

[errant zenith]

No, I just reworded what I said as a joke

[grave musk]

https://tenor.com/view/kendrick-llama-kendrick-the-llama-kendrick-lamar-humble-damn-gif-8114704922632650801