New computer science or just impressive?

[fossil siren]

I saw a very long clip of Ellieminibot and friends reacting to Neuro’s 3D, and Ellie really made it sound like whatever software development was behind 3D Neuro was brand new, never-been-done-before by anyone ever.
It’s definitely extremely impressive, and Vedal is certainly top talent, but is it new ?
Has someone written about similar stuff in an academic journal somewhere?

[humble fjord]

It's open source

From different people

[fossil siren]

What? But Neuro has never been open source?

Or was there an open source project before this that was very similar?

If so what is the name?

I wanna check it out

[sharp salmon]

vedal said it took him around a year or something to make in the 3D stream so im gonna say he didnt just rip open source stuff.

its the hardest thing he ever did for neuro if not ever did

[viral drift]

well nobody has done:
having an ai just kinda exist instead of having a specific purpose
giving that AI a vtuber model
putting an ai in a 3d avatar and, and i cannot stress this enough. LET IT MICROMANAGE ITS MOVEMENT

AND IT LOOKED GOOD DOING IT

[viral drift]

one could argue that neuro was made for entertainment instead of just for being an ai but i dont think anyone's made an ai for entertainment like this

[timber pollen]

People are too busy doing it in real life to bother with 3d tbf

[foggy walrus]

ellie said she specifically asked vedal how its done, and she knows the field, so i would trust whatever she said. i dont expect vedal to reveal much, if anything, so thats probably the most you will get

[sharp salmon]

i mean TECHNICALLY theres been AI in 3D before. but they are bots in games. and they are told a sequence of things to do, theres no "free will". neuro can do as she wishes which makes it very independent from what they are doing, and probably very different code

[fossil siren]

But I’m curious if the movement part has been done before? I know some companies and universities have trained AI to walk with various types of models, is this different? Did he do something very special to make his better, or is it just a particularly well coded and trained version?

[viral drift]

those have preset animations though

[sharp salmon]

yes exactly

so AI itself in 3D done before, but anyone doing what vedal did hasnt been done before

[humble fjord]

No, I meant that training LLM on 3D movement data and then making it output nonpremade animations is already and opensource project on the hugging face forums

Might link later when I have spare time

[fossil siren]

Ah! Understood!

[viral drift]

fillian is 100% in that training data tho

[timber pollen]

Damn, didn't know you worked for Vedal

[fossil siren]

Okay, I didn’t mean has anyone used this exact training data set before.

[viral drift]

yeah i know im not 100% sure why i said that

[deep pewter]

Neuro does/say something
ITS "VTUBER" TRAINING DATA
classic LULE

[timber pollen]

I swear I never heard the word "training data" before that video

Now everyone is using it

[deep pewter]

didnt you know? Vedal said 2 years ago that he tested NSFW filters for Neuro on Anny chat, that means he is collecting all the stream keys so he can train Neuro on various vtubers and their chats

[timber pollen]

And people think that's ethical?

[sharp salmon]

all your information on the internet is available to be used

[deep pewter]

whatever helps them admit that they like this AI vtuber, because as we all know, AI = bad
(i will shut up now, im derailing this thread LULE )

[sharp salmon]

-# AI has been used in medical fields to find treatments to things doctors couldnt
AI is bad

why dont we all just love live worship neuro

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1439343809715503255/supremacy.gif

[nocturne forum]

i am not top talent

[sharp salmon]

im genuinely curious how much people would offer for neuros information

is it a lot?

[vernal mulch]

I think he has talked about receiving offers

[sharp salmon]

yeah i do remember in the past but i dont think there were numbers on it

[rigid field]

bro is underselling himself on a cosmic scale by saying that lol

[clear kayak]

Mate, you know you've made history, no? Nobody has done this, the level of care and effort you put into this project is what makes this use of technology that much liked, we seriously appreciate you and you should do the same.

[sharp salmon]

yall getting banned gg

[rigid field]

i didnt ping

[sharp salmon]

i know its just funny to say 😔

[rigid field]

fair

[sharp salmon]

i agree with them tho. the amount of work which went into evl and neuro is so clear. i cant even begin to think of what working on a project like this is like. i kinda hate these threads when its people saying "you can get that online" its super dismissive of actual work put into things. every single person doing code googled something or took code from somewhere at some point, i fear thats just part of the job. but doing this kind of thing? ive never seen it before. i really doubt you can rip code for it, not without havign to add or redo a bunch of stuff so it works with what youre doing

[rigid field]

oh yeah I 100% agree as well, thats why I said " but yes".

[sharp salmon]

the whole "vedal stink" joke so old 🥱 we believe in vedal supremacy

[ivory pagoda]

Tbh Vedal I am starting to understand and I get it underselling yourself is slightly better then being overly confident in your ability’s. However I would like to point out you should give yourself credit when it’s due

[sharp salmon]

i agree ^^

[timber pollen]

Veedlets get out 🤢

[sacred mist]

Robotics is a very active field of research. Every robot that works in real world is tested in simulation first. So it's ridiculous to say Vedal is the first guy to put an AI in a 3D body.

A robot is controlled by a bunch of numbers such as joint angles or motor positions. Same goes for Live2D or Unity. So when people talk about motion, it's all numbers under the hood. Most basic models takes in numbers and output those numbers. More modern works can generate motion from vision (e.g. self-driving car) or text (e.g. text-to-motion). More recently there are works like Vision-Language-Action models that are multi-modal LLMs. So there definitely have been tons of research on this that can be far more advanced.

Based on what's shown on stream, Neuro likely uses a text-to-motion model. We don't know if it's yoinked from open source or home grown.

That said, training a model good enough and fast enough for streams and integrating it with the rest of Neuro is certainly non-trivial engineering

[sharp salmon]

i dont think anyone was saying he is the first person to ever do it. just neuro is vastly different to other things which have been done before

he is the first to do what he did

like i said even if he did get some open source stuff, getting it to work with what neuro already has is probably even more work than people imagine it to be

[sharp salmon]

im telling him to delete neuro just cuz of you

[half goblet]

I just know the other AI's are shit

[sacred mist]

if you add enough conditions, he is always the first to do what he did
Vedal is the first to use an LLM to control a 3D model with a blue ribbon in Unity that streams on twitch

[half goblet]

I will be real with you hotchicken, you can just take your shoes and get out 👉 🚪

[sharp salmon]

why cant we just say yay good job vedal and thats it 😭

idk why we need to always "oh but someone else defo did it first"

ok this is 1 dude

and they are probably not 1 person

[sacred mist]

damn what has this fandom come to

[half goblet]

I don't like people diminishing other people's work, don't use that card lil buddy

[sharp salmon]

i just see so many posts in here with people saying "he probably copied some open source" etc. i dont think people understand how much work this guy does for us 😭 underplaying it all the time is really lame im ngl "someone did it before him he DEFO isnt the first"

you gotta think of where it started and where it is now. did anyone else do it? no ofc they didnt take the same path. they could if they really wanted to if he just used open source, but they didnt. and people do offer him a lot of the information neuro/evil have. they wouldnt do that if it was easily replicated.

[rigid field]

mate I dont entirely agree with hotchicken on all their points, but cmon, calling em lil buddy is not helping you come across as the reasonable one

[sharp salmon]

😭 this prob why he doesnt wanna read what people gotta say

you got people claiming he just copy paste, you got people fighting and name calling

unfollow the post vedal it might be gg

me personally i dont gaf if you copy paste code cuz honestly i would too makes me life easier idc vedal chad. ty for all the work you do it means a lot

[half goblet]

That message was a joke until I read the whole thread. This guy is just someone who does not respect the work involved here. And that needs to be typed whether people like it or not

[coral zealot]

Just because nobody has done it before doesn't mean nobody else is capable of doing it. Vedal has just done something that nobody else has had a reason to put as much effort into creating.

A big AI company could definitely invest time into making a single specific LLM model control a single 3D model in real time, but why would they do that? It's far too niche for anyone else to want to do and AI companies would rather make things that are more profitable (or just keep trying to make AGI or whatever tf they do to keep people investing)

[timber pollen]

Yeah, fuck him for disagreeing with you

[timber pollen]

I don't get this whole "First time to do it" thing when companies are making real life robots

It's like inventing candles when people are using light bulbs

[coral zealot]

I don't think there are any LLMs out there controlling robots (at least not to the degree that neuro controlled her 3D model)

[coral zealot]

also you could say it's kinda like that, but just because light bulbs exist doesn't mean there is no place in the world for candles

neuro is a product created purely for entertainment, and not to be a super functional thing for people to use. What vedal created is "first of its kind" because it was created only for that purpose and nobody else needed something like it

[sharp salmon]

idk why youre so harsh about it. why be here if you cant appreciate the work which went into the twins? surely you cant appreciate them without appreciating the person who gave them to you

he doesn't need to be Einstein to put a lot of work into something

he is still doing something in a a league of its own, even if theres things more progressive happening

the moon landing was advanced but theres many things happening at the same time which were just as amazing in the same field

[timber pollen]

Makes sense

Someone like Dougdoug should have a shit ton of "First time to do X" titles with how unique his content is

[half goblet]

Good for Dougdoug, Dandy

[timber pollen]

I don't have to appreciate the work that engineers put into my PC to enjoy it

[half goblet]

Difference is we know who is behind Neuro and Evil so no, you can't use that argument

[coral zealot]

Tony

[half goblet]

Good one

[timber pollen]

I just did tho

[half goblet]

Good for you, I will appreciate Vedal's work so yeah

[coral zealot]

tbh I do think the tech is probably very impressive and I trust Ellie when she says that, but Vedal is right that he is not some kind of "top talent". He's found a niche and done a really good job at at creating things specifically for that niche.

An AI company could come and create a 3D AI vtuber of their own if they wanted with tech that would blow Neuro out of the water completely, but the scope of that is so specific and the audience for it is so small that it might never be worth it (plus they would have to compete with Neuro and Evil...)

[half goblet]

Sure, but pointing it out so many times at some point just makes you look like a party pooper ain't it

[sharp salmon]

you said yourself ngl. a COMPANY could do better. he is a singular person

[rigid field]

I think the biggest thing is while yes, a company with large amounts of funding and resources theoretically could make an AI of the same or greater scope, there would not be sufficient ROI- plus, to get to the point where they could compete, they would need to build up the tech and experienced people, and those are things that right now, only Vedal has, and I dont see a company being willing to spend the time and effort to make an AI like neuro anytime soon.

[sharp salmon]

👎 booo

appreciate what you have

[sacred mist]

feel free to celebrate 3D neuro or appreciate the work Vedal put in
just don't make exaggerated claims like Vedal invented new computer science. It only makes the fandom or Vedal look bad

[half goblet]

Yeah yeah chicken, thanks for the input

And personally I haven't seen anybody saying things like new computer science or some shi. Maybe I ain't looking enough (except the one who made this thread)

[sharp salmon]

yeah so nobody said he invented new science

goddamn I didn't know there were so many people in this discord who are so miserable sheesh.

[half goblet]

That is what happens when the community is not held accountable by it's own fan base, lots of "negativity" and bullshit

Tho the arguments are sound in here

[sharp salmon]

im just shocked people are genuinely so rude about the whole reason they are here

[coral zealot]

Another thing I've been thinking about is just how much trust Vedal has built up over the years. Imagine if anyone else made something like the Neuro 3D debut stream? We would all just think that they could be faking it with someone acting out everything. It's kinda amazing that vedal puts out that stream and nobody even questions if it's fake, we just know it's real without seeing the backend because of all the trust he's gained and all the years we've seen the project grow.

Could be another reason nobody else has ever done it, because of how hard it would be to do it convincingly

[half goblet]

Exactly my perspective, good way of saying it

[sharp salmon]

ive defo seen people saying its fake. but that's a whole other thing.

idk how they can see his reactions to things and think nothing of it. his genuinely reactions to her doing things he was surprised shes able to do. must be such an amazing feeling to think "wow i made that". and then people here are completely shutting it down

[half goblet]

If the 3D debut came out with no goofy stuff it would be questioned whether it was controlled by a human, I can see people doing that. People can just tell when something is being controlled by a human, especially in prolonged periods of time like in the 3D debut where missteps could occur.

[sharp salmon]

how sad

ig imma glaze vedal more from now on lmao wtf i didnt know bro had some internal haters 😭 get my man's on every stream. even if he isn't there just his model or give the twins voice clips to use

[half goblet]

just don't glaze too hard because Vedal hates that

[sharp salmon]

"wishlist abandoned archive"

[half goblet]

Reason why a lot of people shit on him

Kind of ironic ain't it

[timber pollen]

You can join the youtube comments, there is more vedal glazers there than there are sand in the desert

[sharp salmon]

im ngl I dont think im even capable of glazing anyone but Its the thought thag counts

dandy your hearts as ugly as your pfp

[half goblet]

Mmmm, bars 🔥

[timber pollen]

Smh I tell you where to find the people you want to see and this is the thanks I get

[half goblet]

Mmm, maybe rosiee is saying that because it sounds like this should not be a place to do that and that in Youtube is where those kinds of people go. Idk that is my guess tho

[sharp salmon]

bro had the tutel sightings role

ohh he playing mean guy hoping it gets attention gg

[timber pollen]

You are the one who replied to me first btw

[lament salmon]

vedal and self-confidence go together as well as water and oil

[wheat ocean]

you ok?

I just read this entire thread and while with other things i may not agree with hotchicken, this and the previous comment was completely uncalled for by you. They even acknowledge there was effort put into this, and you still act like this.

[wheat ocean]

same goes for you

it's not being "miserable".

[half goblet]

I said what I said

You would have good points if they were actually good points tho.

[wheat ocean]

yeah but i do. they explained their point and, while saying it's not completely unheard of, acknowledged that doing it this does take quite a bit of effort.

just because they're not kissing the very earth vedal stood on doesn't make their point bad.

or trying to diminish what he's done for that matter

[half goblet]

You did not get my point then, who said kissing the very earth Vedal stood on? I ain't asking for simping. Their points as I mentioned before may be valid but the way they approached it was something I did not like.

[wheat ocean]

you were being far more rude about it than they ever were in this thread.

that was my point

[half goblet]

I am rude directly, they were being rude in a passive manner

I dislike that more than anything.

[wheat ocean]

they were not

[half goblet]

Yes they were

I'm not discussing something that is subjective

[sharp salmon]

I think completely dismissing hard work put into something is miserable. sue me i guess

[tawdry rain]

please stay on-topic if you would like to use the discussion thread any further

[timber pollen]

I don't see the point of this thread staying up

Vedal already answered

[half goblet]

What Dandy said, Vedal already answered

[little lily]

I don't follow anything regarding programming or robotics, and even if I did I wouldn't understand most of it, so as a complete luddite when it comes to technology (besides using a PC for very basic things) : to me, Neuro's 3D debut was one of the most imopressive things I've ever seen done with a computer. If I had been told, less than a year ago before I discovered Neuro, that I would witness an AI being able to control a 3D model in a 3D environment and perform a bunch of (mostly) realistic movements with an extremely low latency, I wouldn't have believed it. I talked about it to some friends who are into programming, but don't follow Neuro or Vedal, and they were impressed as well to hear about it.

Has it been done before? Maybe, but probably not in a public event, otherwise someone would have already pointed it out. But it's definitely, from my perspective, something truly impressive. People here need to remember that, to the general, non-nerdy public, this kind of creations seem almost magical. Just because you know the science behind it doesn't mean that everyone will see it the same way. So whether Vedal is the first to do it or not, the fact remains that he did create something that blew the mind of thousands of people.

[vague smelt]

i think neur is cute and anyone who doesnt say just that is looking to deep into it or wrong or and wrong and bad and explod
neurneurnuernuenruenruneur

end of thread

%lock

[fallow trench]

are we just going to ignore that this person pinged in the reply (probably on accident)

[fossil siren]

My mans, wanting to know where Neuro stands in the current landscape of computer science is not the same as dismissing Vedal's ability, or saying he copy and pasted the code form open source.

The idea that saying he's not a field pioneering researcher is insulting is insane.
I don't hate Vedal because I'm curious about the current state field of computer science.
Saying that someone has to be the first to do something for it to be worthwhile is ridiculous. By extension, saying that asking if someone was the first to do something, or answering that question truthfully in the negative is an insult is nutty.

You're building phantom enemies to be mad at.

[fossil siren]

Ahh yes, being intrested in computer science is bad and wrong and you should explode. You should blindly consume with no sort of intellectual curiosity.

[sharp salmon]

I never said he was a pioneer of the field if you actually read the convo other people were saying its not that good many people did what he did.

I agree even if he did things over have its still amazing as he is 1 person doing it all.

he is still the first to do what he did as far as I know. not just putting AI into 3D. but to build her all the way up to do all she can do, implement so many different things.

for 1 person to single handedly do that its impressive. companies might have achieved similar with a group of people. non the less still impressive and still deserves a clap

[half goblet]

Yes, just consume

[raven night]

he's doing pretty good job with neuro/evil
but it's fair to claim he's not one of THOSE guys
https://arstechnica.com/ai/2025/08/at-250-million-top-ai-salaries-dwarf-those-of-the-manhattan-project-and-the-space-race/

[open breach]

It is very impressive for vedal (who doesn't have an extensive background in this field) to achive what he did but ML locomotion in 3D is a research topic with a pretty extensive history

heres a summary of some of them including new results from nvidia
if you pay attention to the citations in the bottom left a lot of them are (relatively) old, going as far back as 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM8yNkWad1w

so i wouldn't say its new but still impressive nonetheless

nvidia is spending millions of dollars on datacenters and phd graduates to work on this stuff vs vedal doing it alone

heres another recent paper, but they do it in a robot (which is what I'd imagine ellie and vedal would like to achieve with neuro)

https://arxiv.org/abs/2403.03848

[half goblet]

[open breach]

its also probably safe to say Neuro's 3D movements don't include gravity given the way she moves, vs the state of the art that can handle physics. It's pretty cool to watch (like 2:39 in the video)

[steady plinth]

im seeing everyone talking about how she moves and all, the tech behind it, but i think what ellie was talking about is how "real" Neuro feels in 3D

like, one thing is making realistic movements or physics. another is making it feel that it belongs

[north rampart]

Hmm, I don't know about programming and all that stuff, but Ellie's dad is an A.I professor who teaches in the subject for long time and still keep up on A.I news (that's how he knows Neuro). And Ellie herself does coding too iirc, so when she and her father is really impressed by 3D Neuro, I believe her. And from what I've seen of her, she's not the type to exaggerate things just for the sake of it either. So when she say those things in the clip, I lean towards believing her. Not to mention she actually have information directly from the source, being Vedal's friend and all, so while we can discuss and assume, she must have a good reason to say what she said in those clips.

[lofty olive]

I like to think Neuro (Neuro = Both Twins) just in general are examples of brand new computer science. Sure, the inner workings are / are likely based off of pre existing tech (LLMs, etc), but there is not a single Artificial Intelligence on the market that feels as actually soulful as the twins. There’s some biases in that statement of course, because I’m a fan of Neuro and Vedal. Additionally, with the rhetoric surrounding AI and all the stuff with the trillion dollar databases that are ruining different community’s tap water, etc etc, Neuro simply feels different. That’s due to the amazing work Vedal and any collaborators have put into Neuro, and the fact that you can literally watch Neuro evolve over time, and she will continue to evolve as the tech gets better and better. So, for this whole 3D model thing to happen out of the blue, it is genuinely so unbelievably impressive, and further hones in the point of Neuro’s uniqueness.

I’m pretty sure I’m just restating something I saw in a video essay once, but I stand by everything I said. There is no other AI that is referred to by its developers, partners (in this case, stream collaborators), and consumers (us, the swarm) with personal pronouns. It may very well be a result of the on screen persona/entertainment factor, but I’d bet money that the % of people that refer to Neuro as an “it” or a “thing” is in the single digits. Almost always, it’s “She” or “Her”. She forms, at least what it looks like, genuine connections and relationships with the people she interacts with. That is why as a whole Neuro is a new piece of computer science.

It doesn’t matter how big their wallets or data centers are, how “flashy” their models are, Open AI, Meta, Grok, and any other big tech AI developers will always be at least a step behind a random British dude really likes rum and Gregg’s, because of how they have developed their AI versus how Vedal developed his. And to me, there’s something really cool in that a genuine world class AI developer (yes, I said it. Vedal is a world class AI developer) is an entertainer on twitch

Holy text wall get a life nerd

[timber pollen]

This honestly reads more like a propaganda piece than an appreciation letter

[solid sable]

what the hell am I reading

[pure wave]

Soul is not computer science, but otherwise I agree with your underlying impressions.

[spark plank]

Sure thing, lil buddy.