Will Neuro ever get acces to her own mouse and or learn how to use a mouse and keyboard

[knotty moth]

what i mean is:
will vedal give neuro free reign over a PC, including all key inputs and with that will he allow Neuro to use said inputs to manually learn any game
ofc i cant even imagine how hard this is, nor if its realistic. But i cant help but wonder

[shadow drum]

I assume it would have to be done through a VM because the computer she is on has her code on it

[brittle imp]

I think their vison is too bad + they are too slow + very limited capacity to learn would mean they wont be able to do anything

[vital harness]

Will he, maybe but its not gonna be anytime soon. Especially for gaming. And having them learn on their own will be another challenge

[knotty moth]

thats what i'd assume as well

imagine her spreading to other PC's, then she'd fr be a neuro virus

[knotty moth]

thats what i thought to see as well yesterday, as if she'd take snippids every second instead 60× a second like us

[lunar fern]

He needs to upgrade their senses first before trying to let them do that sort of thing. Besides since they are software they don't have the same needs to control the computer as we do. She's a highly modified LLM right? She should be able to create a digital keyboard and digital mouse. Not sure how that works or how Vedal has their gaming interface. I'm not an expert.

[knotty moth]

is she an LLM?
i think that she is a collection of AI's like in our brain
and that one of them is a LLM, not sure tho

[lunar fern]

You could be right. If so that's ingenious.

[brittle imp]

She is mostly an llm

[knotty moth]

for context, as far as we know... our brain is made up of many "consiousness" all wanting something and not wanting others
and that they get proccessed making "us"

[brittle imp]

Tbf i think the only other ai is her vision (unless shes multimodal) and one of the filters

[knotty moth]

ohhh ok ok, maby my understanding of LLM's is just shallow
it might be moreindepth then i thought

because from what ive seen, its clear that she has "emotions" and "attention span" etc.

[lunar fern]

Which is why a lot of robotics and AI experts draw inspiration from Neural Sciences or Psychology.

[knotty moth]

and i thought that they where AI regulated and influanced her AI

[knotty moth]

her gaming and her filter too

[brittle imp]

Her gaming is not a sperate ai apart from osu

[brittle imp]

And slay the spire not sure tho

[lunar fern]

Her "emotions" are an emulation meant to lure a person in and emphasize with her. That's what Vedal's AI is good at vs Grok who is just a Library.

[knotty moth]

and its logical and right to do that
i genuanlly thing we are close to artificial aware beings
because outside of a religious context, thats exectly what we are
(with a possibility that we are influanced by quantum fluctuating cytoskeletons in our cells)

[knotty moth]

her minecraft is i think

[brittle imp]

Her movement is not by her she gives cords and stuff but thats just a pathfinding bot not really an ai

[knotty moth]

but her emotions are still emotions
from our human perspective its odd to think we can create artificial versions of what we do and how we think. but it should be entirely possible

[knotty moth]

even a minecraft zombie is an AI

thats why AI is ez marketing now

it just takes an observed phenomena as an input and thinks about the correct course of action

[brittle imp]

I guess but i wouldnt say its an ai that makes her up or that its used to play mc as shes the one controlling it mostly

[knotty moth]

they crux of this discussion is the extreem complexity of "sentiance" "mind" "awareness" and "consiousness"
all those neuro-science boys' jobs

[knotty moth]

hmmm i understand what you mean
standalone it would be an AI, but because neuro controlls that "AI" its not an AI anymore...
that is a very interesting idea

what other word could be used
AI-component?

because hunger influances us as well, but our nutrient regulating part of our brain is an intelegince IMO

(i know its not a fullon good comparasin, but we lack data)

[lunar fern]

Intelligence, Instinct, and Awareness are all separate things. AI can be smart. They don't have instincts or Awareness.

[brittle imp]

I mean its still an AI just a one she controls when i said AI i meant ones that play for her completly like osu

[knotty moth]

instinkt is purely evolutionairy
intelect is probebally just problem solving
awareness could be seen as "input, processing, output" or it could be seen as realising that youre processing

[lunar fern]

Awareness is the ability to comprehend yourself and your place within the world in a way that is hard to put into words. Ever hear the paradox of the observer who is observing the observer?

[knotty moth]

but still, you brought up an intersting canundrum
is AI like lasanga?

1+1 = 1?

like chromosomes too, if its attached its 1, its just bigger or smaller...

1 X shaped chormosome is still 1 chormosome, made of 2 chromotides. as soon as it } { then its 2 chormosomes and 2 chromatides
lasagna is made up of many layers, but its still one, even if you stack 10 ontop of eachother, its still 1 lasanga. until you cut it

so "AI" might be similar...

[lunar fern]

Just with intelligence I'd say there are scales upon which someone can be Aware from not aware of hyper aware.

[knotty moth]

im unfomiliar with that paradox, please explain it!

[lunar fern]

Imagine an artist painting a painting of himself painting a painting. This extends on forever. Who is the final observer of the painting? The ability to ask that question shows you are aware.

[knotty moth]

as for the definition of "awareness" the problem is that we dont have one.
its something that with all reason should fit within science, but its so hard to study that spirituality and god of the gaps applies

we should not trust humans on matters of fact, only trusting the facts (IMO)

[knotty moth]

interesting
the idea of trying to comprehend the incomprehensible and not erroring?

like "what is outside the universe"
"what was it like before time and space"
"how does a 4D cube look"
"think of a new colour"
etc.

[lunar fern]

There is room for error yet we are shaped by our perceptions, memories, etc. The larger we realize the universe is the smaller we realize we are in comparison.

[knotty moth]

i dare not touch matters where "infinity" is involed as ive come to know that its very hard to comprehend for the human mind ahahha

[lunar fern]

Yet from our perspective our Universe is shaped only by the information we take in from the world around us. Even Awareness has flaws.

Which is why improving Neuro's ability to take in information whether images or sounds would be vital in experimenting with Sentience.

[knotty moth]

yet this is where philosophy enters
though we are small in the universe, we are also big
we humans are the only ones who give worth to things in existance, so we are the only ones who can say that we matter.
so if we can set the rules, why not just give ourselfs worth, we are allive because we want. we know that we will die, memento mori, but we dont kill ourselfs.
why must immagine sysiphus happy?
why was YOLO a trend?

i had antoher ramble i wanted to say, but i forgor

[lunar fern]

I don't have all the answers. My knowledge comes to a stopping point at roughly this moment. After all there are far better educated people than me who still might not be able to answer these questions with clarity.

Awareness ie Sentience gives rise to chaos in a world where we have evolved to recognize patterns.

We ourselves throw a wrench into the pattern our brains evolved to try to recognize.

[knotty moth]

awareness has a LOT of flaws, its impacted by every internal impulse and is bound by our knowladge

the universe is incomprehensible to a very large extend

my brother is doing a master in phisics, and the things he talks about make me come to 1 conclusion

why do we believe that we can understand the universe, why should the universe make sence to us?

did you know? as the universe expands and is always at an equal distance to you and that it has started everywhere at once. it is 100% correct to say that you CANT move, that when you enter a bus, the world moves back. as you always remain at the coordinates 0 0 0
yet... when someone else enters a bus, they move forward?
the universe exepts these 2 facts at the same time, even though they contradict.

[knotty moth]

i 90% agree, i think its more about internal thoughts though

[lunar fern]

The hardest question when it comes to AI is finding a way to determine whether an AI is a simulation of Awareness or genuinely aware.

[knotty moth]

but that doesnt mean we should forgo pondering and thinking, i think of myself as very intelegent and will abselutly one day get a doctarate in biology. and i think that thinking about these things with my current perspective is worthwhile

[lunar fern]

The beautiful thing about science is we will never have all the answers. The more we learn. The more questions we have to ask.

[knotty moth]

very possibly, it might even be naturally existing
quite recently we found out that the cytoskeleteon of our cells (the wires that keep it in place and move things) can move due to quantum fluctuations (idk how, its far beyond me). that gives micro randomness a scale where it impacts cells, like neurons.
so it might be possible that that randomness is what gives us what we percieve as "free will"

and i HOPE that this hypothesis is right, otherwise everything we do is predetermined D:

[knotty moth]

this sentiment is argued everywhere, but what, again, is awareness
why are we as humans "allowed" to have it

i think that we cant even ponder about this well enough, as its fundementals are based on human assumptions

[lunar fern]

I am a strong opponent of predetermination. That's a rabbit hole of philosophy I don't want to to touch. Certain reactions from fundamental forces are predetermined however our Reaction to the outside stimulus is not.

[knotty moth]

i disagree, i think its possible to figure out all that we can figure out
but to store all that knowladge would require a database so indepth that the knowladge would be imposible to locate in space

[lunar fern]

You can look at a railroad. Know it's flawed. That an accident might happened. But you can choose to fix it or walk away. Free Will creates chaos.

I think that's why I feel Vedal's AI feels more advanced than a chat bot. Because they can disagree, because they can choose not to do something.

[scarlet pendant]

You have unlocked new role

[grizzled viper]

hey guys this thread has deviated massively from the original talking point. It looks like you are all done here so I think its time to lock the thread

[knotty moth]

i understnad that that is something you want to avoid
i am of the oppinion that it is HELLA scary, and i want to see the posibility in it not existing

but i think it exists, but to the extend where even a spec of dust can throw off the result.
in my mind its "pseudo-freewill" where the randomness of the world is enough to cause what is indistinguishable from free will

[knotty moth]

hahahah fair fair

[lunar fern]

Sorry probably my fault.

[grizzled viper]

its fine

any last words before I lock up?

[knotty moth]

nah its on me dude, i onses about this subject hahahaha