apt-swarm - An APT repository for the Swarm!

[keen raven]

Hi Swarm!

A couple days ago I created an APT repository for the Swarm to use for their projects!
This should allow Debian/Ubuntu users to download and install packages for their Swarm projects easily!

Follow the instructions on this page to get yourself set up, then download packages!

(Currently only has the SwarmFM desktop player, but...)

That's not the only part! We need you to help us with populating this repository! If you have or know of some Linux apps that can be packaged as .deb files, and you're willing to package them, we invite you to contribute starting from this page! Together, we can create the Swarm APT repository!

Hope to see you there!

Maintainers: @keen raven, @rose elm

While we're looking for any related packages and welcome them all...

Packages of particular interest:

• Game Jam 2023/2024 games
• Neuro API integrations (if possible)

(source: me, lmao)

[frosty heron]

Peak
Sadly I don't think my stuff can be put in packages, but still cool (most of my programs are just for my server anyway)
Just wondering, I assume this thing works on Ubuntu-based distros like Mint as well

[keen raven]

should be, not guaranteed though

also wdym most of your stuff can't be put into packages

[frosty heron]

How would you put Neuro RVC or NeuroSynth into a package?

[keen raven]

depends

[frosty heron]

Neuro RVC and NeuroSynth are just models, with Neuro RVC you would basically have to bundle the entirety of Applio with Neuro RVC already installed, with NeuroSynth there doesn't seem to be a way to do it consistently

[keen raven]

I mean you could also host the models server-side if you don't mind the servers potentially catching on fire

[frosty heron]

I don't think that's a good idea, especially with NeuroSynth, which is very intensive

I don't know if the software even supports remote inference

[peak relic]

I'm not sure if hosting the package files as part of the repo is a good idea, the repo will forever grow in size as packages get uploaded, including updates
interesting project though, a central repo for swarm projects would be awesome
-# also not Nix, literally unusable

[keen raven]

well... how else could we have done it

[peak relic]

put whatever the Debian equivalent of a PKGBUILD is in the repo
put the .deb files in S3 or on a VPS with a lot of storage or something

[keen raven]

oh hmmm didn't think of that

the main problem would be verifying authenticity after-the-fact but I suppose that can be figured out later

lemme have a think

[peak relic]

as a first step I'd recommend switching the domain in the installation instructions for the repo away from the neuroverse-fm.github.io subdomain
since AFAIK you can't set a custom A record for that domain you're essentially locked to a GitHub repo with that

the other way around, a custom domain for GitHub Pages, should work

then, if you want to change the infrastructure in any way, you can update that to point somewhere else

[keen raven]

sure, ig

give me a sec

tho the problem is my current domain is expiring soon and I want to switch it

because my current domain I got for free and renewing it is $40usd

and idk abt you but I am NOT paying that

[peak relic]

yeah no that's expensive

[keen raven]

yup

Actually, let me see if tomorrow I can get a new domain and give myself 6 months of domain transfer time

if I can, I should be able to start serving using my new domain immediately and start phasing out my current one

[keen raven]

(this is at cost iirc so using my current domain name provider would be even more expensive)

[woven flume]

Hi guys, what version of gtk does the swarmfm desktop app depend on?
-# i went to the git repo, found the file, debtapped it so i can install on arch, and it said that gtk is not a valid package name and told me to select between gtk2 gtk3 and gtk4

[peak relic]

the .deb package says this: Depends: libwebkit2gtk-4.1-0, libgtk-3-0

never used debtap before but it really should've picked up on this

[woven flume]

LULE

guessed it would be gtk3 but debtap didnt say anything

[rose elm]

Swarmfm player is slightly broken with the YouTube being banned

[prisma hound]

Be the change you want nix to be, maintain a nix flake

Odds are you'd be doing something similar to the discord package because IIRC that unpacks the deb and packages that.

[peak relic]

if the official distribution is a .deb then yeah, that's likely the way to go

for most swarm-related apps I'd expect it to be either source code in a GitHub repo or an archive on itch.io or something

[prisma hound]

I say this considering I pinged over the #1336984748882399242 channel. I'd imagine not a lot of those will be oss

I might try and package some of my stuff for practice on a nix flake, including my game jam entry.

[peak relic]

after an in depth survey of a whole 6 itch.io game jam games I have concluded that they're either not packaged for Linux or are a zip containing the game data with binaries

[prisma hound]

-# Considering I used a nix-shell while developing this should be easy

I just included source code in my upload

[peak relic]

could do some cursed stuff with chromium to use the web versions mabe

[prisma hound]

python executable moment

[prisma hound]

I'll have to ask on A neuro who can't sing IIRC native works and there is a github with the source, but better to ask the lead programmer on that one.

[brittle beacon]

hello

what is happening here?

packaga swarm games on linux?

[prisma hound]

Projects in general, including games mhm

[brittle beacon]

sure i have the source code still

now that you mention it i should probably put it up on github for archiving

[prisma hound]

apt install a-neuro-who-cant-sing
that's our goal

[frosty heron]

And I assume to have a script you can run to start it from the command line

Since the game is Python, I'm gonna assume it'll have to somehow have the package depend on Python and some Python packages

[prisma hound]

Either we bundle or just run python, for nix python would be easier (minus packaging a dep) but for debian it might be better to bundle.

[peak relic]

realistically I'm probably not gonna package this, but just for reference since you're already here, does that game only run through pygbag or also natively?
I know your engine works natively too, just not sure if you made any modifications for the game jam that would break it

[brittle beacon]

runs nativly and in web

https://github.com/samvanmaele/A-neuro-who-can-t-sing

ah shit its still private

gimme a sec

ok should be good now

the code is pretty shit but do with it what u want

to run nativly just run the main.py like any normal python script. to run in browser there is that command at the top of the script which you need to use to compile

depndencies are just pygame, zengl, numpy, pillow and asynchio should be included with base python

idk how this apt repository stuff works so ill leave it up to yall

[keen raven]

@rose elm already set instructions in the landing docs

[brittle beacon]

ah

[rose elm]

Hey that's me!

[brittle beacon]

ok ill see if i can get it to work

i dont use linux so i wont be able to test it tho

[rose elm]

If you need help, or are confused, I don't mind a ping

[brittle beacon]

[keen raven]

port to electron

[keen raven]

they don't have to be oss just source-available for verification

[brittle beacon]

how am i supposed to turn my files + needed deps into a .deb file?

it just says build your files

from what i can find online i need ubuntu?

[keen raven]

are you using pyinstaller to build your script

[brittle beacon]

pygbag

cuz of opengl

[keen raven]

oh hmm

give me a sec then

@brittle beacon if you haven't already, you'll need to set up a debian/ubuntu install

[brittle beacon]

or well, pygbag for the web version, it runs nativly too via just python

[keen raven]

to test it locally

[brittle beacon]

okay

[keen raven]

python requires installing deps

[brittle beacon]

[keen raven]

you're on windows, right?

[rose elm]

python is a weird one

[brittle beacon]

yes

[keen raven]

ok

wsl should work fine

[rose elm]

(windows subsystem for linux)

[brittle beacon]

thanks

[keen raven]

for debian-specific stuff you'll need a debian folder in your project

[brittle beacon]

@prisma hound i cant get it to work on wsl, did native ever work on your end for the game-jam?

i keep running into bugs that dont matter in browser or a normal desktop but do happen in wsl

for example, it cant find webgl, and not having an audio device leads to an immediate crash apparently in native

OSError: libEGL.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
and
pygame.error: dsp: No such audio device

i dont really feel like debugging this atm so ye

also i reached 10k fps on the vulkan thing while you're here

[keen raven]

oh testing won't work in wsl

wsl lacks a gui iirc

[rose elm]

I can test if you have a deb

[brittle beacon]

I have a repo

Does that work?

[rose elm]

it might, do you want me to just run the python?

[brittle beacon]

Sure

Just main.py if you have the dependancies shoukd work

[rose elm]

the only one in base python might be asynchio, the rest you have to get from pip

[brittle beacon]

Ye

I meant that as a seperate part

depndencies are just pygame, zengl, numpy, pillow (and asynchio should be included with base python)

[rose elm]

oh, i see

[brittle beacon]

Sorry for the confusion lol

[rose elm]

all good lol

game seems to run fine on linux

[brittle beacon]

[rose elm]

i just trapped myself in the chair

cursor trapping doesnt seem to work well after tabbing out

[keen raven]

lmao

[brittle beacon]

Ye the cursor thing was made in 2 hours

Not my best work but we ran out of time

[rose elm]

all good

game works, and the cursor leaving the window isn't that bad

you did 3d in pygame, no clue how

[brittle beacon]

Just opengl

Pygame is only there for audio and the window tbh

[rose elm]

ah

game fully runs!

[brittle beacon]

[prisma hound]

I did get the betas after the jam running.

[brittle beacon]

[keen raven]

i'm working on figuring out git submodules for building this instead of committing binary blobs. For the record I didnt like it either but until being reminded submodules existed I didnt really have another option for reasons

this may take a while tho

[rose elm]

Would a org with a repo for each package building the deb into releases, that could then be fetched work better?

[keen raven]

probably

but I was thinking something else

I'll DM you later about it, gotta fix my bloody nose and do some other stuff first

nvm

[brittle beacon]

Ye the binary blobs were an inbetween for the gltf libeary not working in web

Now that i know c i could make one myself i guess

[peak relic]

submodules?
as long as only build instructions get committed and not source code or build artifacts it should be fine to have everything in one repo
then again Arch has one repo per package too, so it clearly works somehow

https://blog.cloudflare.com/using-cloudflare-r2-as-an-apt-yum-repository/
something like this seems good if you want to avoid keeping around a server that hosts the packages

[keen raven]

well yeah but it makes updating harder

also submodules is something I've dabbled in the past before

so I think I'm at least ok

[peak relic]

submodules aren't hard, they just make working with Git repos more annoying in general

[peak relic]

what update do you mean? updating the source/build information or updating the build artifacts?

[keen raven]

I live in masochism to cure my depression

so making things work in a more annoying way is very fun for some reason

[keen raven]

source code sry

should have mentioned, bit stupid tho

[peak relic]

you're planning to mirror the source code for all packages?

[keen raven]

I was looking at that. CF R2 would be nice (10gb free + $0.15 per extra gb iirc) is very awesome.

Unfortunately, as I've found out multiple times in the past, my credit cards don't work online for some reason

or debit cards either, idfk why and I've asked multiple times why

[keen raven]

essentially

since we can just use debian/ for build files and build everything that way

if a repository doesn't already have debian/, it's likely to never be touched by upstream maintainers, and if it does, then it usually indicates it's at least been tested on a deb-based system

[peak relic]

that still doesn't seem like a great idea because of how many packages will have a lot of binary assets, but yeah, you'll 100% want separate repos then
though submodules still seem like a bad idea because you'd still need to fetch all of those large repos

[keen raven]

I'm generally one of those people that do not give a fuck about build time if I'm not currently requiring it for something (a counterexample is a dev server where I am previewing my changes, I would want that to be as fast as possible so I can make changes to my code quicker)

Maybe the fetch time would suck at the beginning since I need to test it, but after that I really do not care

unless there's something else with submodule fetch I'm missing

[peak relic]

it'll as always fetch the entire history of any submodule, but updates especially for game jam games are rare so that should be fine

[keen raven]

Unless a game jam game is played on stream and bugs are found I really don't expect more updates at this point

[keen raven]

also iirc there is a way to prevent this with the checkout action

[peak relic]

tbh as long as you aren't storing the .debs directly in the repo anymore most solutions will be okay

[peak relic]

you can do a shallow clone

never needed it for a submodule but it should work there too

[keen raven]

exactly what I was thinking of

[keen raven]

yep

But I do want to give R2 a try, not only seems interesting but also wouldn't necessarily require separate repos all the time

maybe some time I will experiment with that using a snapshot of the repo

[keen raven]

@peak relic about this

[keen raven]

repo is now updated -> apt-swarm.ktrain5369.dev/repo is the new link

and yes we're still working on the whole "how to not store binaries in the repo" thing

we have a solution tho

[brittle beacon]

You dont have to do all this lol

[frosty heron]

But what about funny sudo apt install neuro-stuff

[keen raven]

I think I got something to work on the non-binary branch

(thanks to @rose elm who spent a gruelling amount of time working on the external-to-repo stuff )

repo is now placed on https://apt-swarm.ktrain5369.dev/repo

[peak relic]

fetching the .debs from releases on the referenced repos
should work until the combined size of all packages becomes larger than whatever limit GitHub has on the CI workspace

but right now I think you'll run into the limits of GitHub Pages anyway before that happens

[keen raven]

I thought ahead of that but I didn't want to just set up a cloudflare worker just to serve them when there's no reason to do so yet

that being said in case it does happen I've extracted the old workflow file into its own ci.sh file so moving isn't going to be a pain in the ass later

[peak relic]

I think the non-binary branch is fine as-is for now

just gotta keep an eye on the repo size

[keen raven]

repo size shouldn't be an issue

there isn't a limit on the CI workspace size iirc but if there is then pages is more of an issue than that

[peak relic]

yeah, I meant the GitHub Pages repo

[keen raven]

oh

[peak relic]

the main repo should be good now

[keen raven]

[peak relic]

except for the old commits that still have the .debs but that's not too bad

probably not worth a force push

[keen raven]

I was considering force pushing to purge them but honestly idgaf

[peak relic]

I ended up giving it a shot, though "maintaining" is a strong word
https://github.com/shuni64/swarm-nur
I looked into if it's possible to bundle these into Debian and Fedora packages, but sadly that runs into libGL issues

-# NUR =

[prisma hound]

Hard agree, and thanks for packaging our game

[keen raven]

Wish it could be bundled into deb + fed packages without issue, would resolve the doubled-up effort here

[peak relic]

it's fine, it's not really doubled
the Nix repo is significantly easier to do than what you're attempting here

[keen raven]

I moreso was implying unnecessary effort

but yeah not actually doubled effort

[keen raven]

non-binary branch merged

also should probs mention docs are currently outdated because I forgot to give them an update lol

[keen raven]

SO, apparently I was stupid enough to use curly braces instead of round brackets...

[silk oracle]

~~hi sir, do u want a free neuros.click subdomain? ~~

[keen raven]

I mean idk

[rose elm]

Where the $40 renewal part go

[keen raven]

It was my old domain

still have it until end of this year

[rose elm]

No, the message you replied too had a part about a $40 renewal iirc

[keen raven]

?

it was a reply to a reply to a message from me complaining that my currenent domain is $40 to renew

[rose elm]

I mean the message was edited

Maybe I'm stupid and tired

Its prob that

[keen raven]

lmao

[frank willow]

thought this was open-source, I wanted to pr lol

oh right! Private packages would be nice. I'm thinking of using this for the bundled installer at: https://github.com/Nakashireyumi/neuro-os

[peak relic]

it is, the main repo is here: https://github.com/apt-swarm/repo

[frank willow]

in the future it might contain private repositories sooo, yeah!

[frank willow]

wait whaaat?

[peak relic]

it's alive, the link just has a typo (double i)
https://apt-swarm.ktrain5369.dev/uploading/prereqs/

[frank willow]

no, I meant uhm the source code, not the apt repository

i was so confused when you said it is, and linked an package repository instead of the source

[frank willow]

oooh, sorry. False alarm

[peak relic]

this is the source

that GitHub repo builds the apt repo in CI

[frank willow]

waht

im confused

[prisma hound]

That is the base repo, each app has instructions in their own repos, take https://github.com/apt-swarm/A-neuro-who-can-t-sing

Upstream doesn't have a build script, it just has source code

[peak relic]

ye, the Debs are in GitHub releases

the main repo just takes them and puts them in GitHub Pages in the right structure for apt to consume

[prisma hound]

This looks like only windows OS supported, I don't exactly get how having a linux package manager further benefits you?

[rose elm]

Above is correct, current system is to prevent malware, I don't think anyone uses it though

[keen raven]

lmaooooooo

[keen raven]

there are plans for linux version apparently

btw I forgot to assign this to an R2 bucket as a test run so uhhh

fun

[frank willow]

I was gonna pr and port it to windows, but I got confused right at the start, with just if its open-sourced or not. it looks so simple my brain tends to fail to compute that its the source code.

[keen raven]

there is no source code

[frank willow]

waht

then what about all the people saying it is the source code

[keen raven]

its the source

but there is no code

also there is no such thing as apt on windows

[frosty heron]

What do you mean port an APT repo to Windows??

[keen raven]

you have to use smth like chocolatey

and iirc not only does that require different file types, but also requires different repo structure

[frank willow]

uhmmmmm, like rewrite it for windows. but there is no code, so thats why I was confused. and then others came in and said that is the source, might be because I confused source & actual code together

[rose elm]

there is something close
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/package-manager/winget/

[frosty heron]

An APT repository is for hosting packaged for Debian and Ubuntu based Linux distros

If you want to make it for Windows you're gonna have to rewrite a lot of software

[keen raven]

is chocolatey on windows as well or is that like mac

[rose elm]

seems to be for windows

[frank willow]

I totally understood that. (P.S, I did not)

[keen raven]

[rose elm]

It means this will never support windows

[frosty heron]

It's the thing you use to install sotfware on stuff like Ubuntu

[frank willow]

oooh, yeah. I already gave up when I saw the repository. I was confused right at the start

[rose elm]

It great for linux packages, but thats about it

[keen raven]

*debian-based linux derivatives

[rose elm]

And even then, theres only 2 packages in it

[frank willow]

I'll post neuro-os to it, and other neuro integrations I'm working on ig

[keen raven]

yeah

isnt neuro-os for windows

[rose elm]

If you need help with packaging it, give me a ping

[keen raven]

you cant post windows stuff onto an apt repo

also should I migrate the workflow to be based on cloudflare r2 instead of github pages

[rose elm]

no

[keen raven]

alright then

[rose elm]

I think I might be the only one who has it on a linux system, and pages works fine

[frank willow]

should work for linux too, but I might need to port some binary stuff I'm working on for other dependencies neuro-os uses

[keen raven]

maybe uh

get neuro-os & windows-api to be built via github actions first...

[frank willow]

Yeah....

I hopefully fixed it

[keen raven]

uh

isnt this supposed to be apt-swarm's thread

[rose elm]

i believe so

[keen raven]

anyways

[rose elm]

thats what it says

[frank willow]

I was... replying to that, sorry!

[keen raven]

I probably will toy with a winget/chocolatey version (probs winget) but definitely aint pushing that for prod anytime soon

[rose elm]

Id like to find a way to get more packages, so this might be useful

Maybe some of the SDK Tools? Would have to get permission first

[frank willow]

actually, is it possible to post private packages?

[rose elm]

I mean, right now we try to have it split into auditable code in repos we have some power over (just to prevent malware getting in), but it might be doable

[keen raven]

wdym by this btw

[keen raven]

there's another problem I think

mainly the typescript-based tools

[frank willow]

Like post packages privately, instead of having them public on the github organization of apt-swarm

[keen raven]

possible but no

[rose elm]

precompile into javascript?

[keen raven]

still need to bundle a node runner, no?

oh wait

we can just

set a fucking dependency

lmfao

[rose elm]

yes!

[keen raven]

insert hika stupid sticker here

[rose elm]

https://www.npmjs.com/package/node-deb may allow us to just do a quick setup for it

[keen raven]

last published 7 years ago

[rose elm]

905 weekly downloads tho

Most of the stuff it doesn't shouldnt really change

[keen raven]

true

[rose elm]

I dont think it supports typescript, however

[keen raven]

transpile to js first and then node-deb it mhm

[rose elm]

I think it really just is a fancy template system

[muted eagle]

yeah better debian then ubuntu

[muted eagle]

trying to get the swarm plsyer working on WSL debian. it shows a black window. gonna try unbuntu wsl next. I found the url, that that all the player is? the stream and twitch chat?

[verbal oracle]

yeah

I havent been able to work much on it

[rose elm]

No, it should be just the stream. Atm it doesn't work

[keen raven]

did something happen here?

[rose elm]

I had to send a message to refollow the channel