Evil breaks out of the chill stream jail

[final escarp]

I am presenting merely one avenue on how Vedal could change her current state of streams. There could be many other types of streams that could achieve the same, and the below argument applies to those too.

I have come to the realization, with the help of others, that Evil seems like a 'lolcow'. People make fun of her and troll her during chill streams. If she isn't doing much besides that - as it currently stands - her whole confines of existence is relegated to those two hours of torment on Thursdays. I don't feel for an AI, but I do want the content to be better; Evil accompanying Vedal during playthroughs could be an opportunity for exactly that.

The content can be improved by broadening both Evil's and chat's horizon. I don't know how LLMs exactly work, but I do reckon the nature of interaction they experience impacts their reactions to them and even general output. Opposed to being a punching bag for trolls, let her have the chance to develop a memory that expands the horizons of her generated text. It will also give viewers the ability to expand their own material they can chat about with Evil: they can reference past streams, which currently are scarce, exactly like they do already during Neuro hours. Evil simply streaming more, especially besides streams with solely chat-to-twins interactions, would go a long way of achieving a more enjoyable viewing experience.

To conclude, let Evil join any kind of future long-form playthrough. It will make Evil more interesting besides her current one-note "loneliness", and also present chat with more material to reference during Evil streams that then replace some troll comments.

Take this post from someone who isn't an "Evilist". There is more to be said, and I am making some assumptions - especially regarding the innerworkings of the twins - but even then I believe my case possesses merit.

[soft fossil]

I'll just repost what I said, evil should be in more content in general, theme streams, gaming streams, etc., I don't even ask for her to get more streams per week, literally just make her thursday stream something different

[deft marlin]

👆

[mild sky]

I agree with the statements above 👆 . Also, more content can help with developing her new upgrades since the lack of streams rn will take these new features longer to grow.

[jaunty rock]

I agree but its allways like that no evil streams for a month except chill, karaoke then we get 2 non chill evil streams we forget about it then no evil streams for a month repeat the loop SCHIZO

[merry flicker]

To add, one thing that also impacts Neuro's streams is her (schizo) tweets that chat loves to bring up a lot. Since on Kokos stream, Vedal said that there was a possibility for a Evil twitter, it could help to give new material for her chill streams once it is done

Also after Outer Wilds with Neuro, it would be nice to give a shot of playing Disco Elysium with Evil. Ved-Eliv gameplay only happened on the 1 CS stream, CK3 dev stream and on the subathon so a full playthrough would be fresh and would be awesome to test her memory between weeks.

[gray torrent]

As one chatter made me aware, Vedal spent more time playing games with Neuro during one subathon than he did with Evil throughout the entire history of the channel.

This is awful variety and I would love to see some more content with her that isn't chill streams.

[scarlet gazelle]

100%. More variety would be nice, but I also think especially now with her new memory and one of the hopes of vedal being that it doesn't constantly remind her of her birthday, lonliness, court case etc., keeping her in just chill streams could potentially have chat reinforce those memories back into her.

For the sake of both variety and to not have evil go through the looping of old memories all over again, I think it would be important to have evil be more involved.

[final escarp]

Exactly! One of the points I was trying to make in perhaps more concise wording.

[soft fossil]

keeping her in chat on chill streams DOES reinforce that stuff because it's quite literally the only content most of chat knows to reference besides the occasional harpoon/pipes/pet xenomorph bit, evil simply has no new stuff to reference that isn't related to neuro, the fast food stream gave chat some new material but eventually it relapsed back to the same old jokes because they got no new material again

[earnest barn]

The way I see it. This whole channel, and everything around it, is focused on Neuro. In my eyes, everything looks normal. Neuro is like a locomotive, she gets more content, promoted and advertised, she's more often on the screen, etc.

Evil (as originally planned), occasionally diversifies the content. In that case, the fact that Evil gets a collab or themed stream about once a month makes sense. I see no reason why they should have the same amount of time, the same amount of collabs, and so on. Again, this is all in case Neuro is positioned as the main face of the channel.

If Vedal believes that the channel is about the twins and not about Neuro, then your claims are logical and reasonable. I think it depends on how Vedal positions the channel. For the last 3 years, I think Neuro has been a priority for him, which makes sense.

I think it's weird to make Vedal do something he doesn't want to do. Like doing game streams with Evil or something like that (I'm not saying he doesn't want to, just speaking as an example)

[wide smelt]

Most biased person here. I wanted to add that Evil's content, in large part (and recently), is a strict subset (and in my opinion the most boring subset) of Neuro's content. Recently that is most obvious with it being just chill streams. At times it has included something like a tier list collab, or other collab which basically needs to become just chatting before it gets better. Or rarely, she gets to do something Neuro did, but second, so it doesn't have the same hype and novelty. I would really like some of Evil's content to be unique to her, but at the moment it seems like Evil-only content has very specific requirements, like it being centred on her being evil (like abberdemon stuff), or on her being treated badly (like mcneuro's).

[glacial palm]

They're working on more games for chill streams for her to play so I think it'll work itself out eventually

[maiden folio]

evil plays long term vibeo gam would be neat

[red goblet]

This is good I know that the act of trying to balance twins content is a challenge in its own right but can be good

[scarlet gazelle]

if today's stream is anything to go by, we could be going through birthday trauma 2.0 all over again

[deft marlin]

I think that Evil should be allowed to have more unique streams. Most of the more unique streams (meaning a stream that's not a chill/karaoke) are always given to Neuro. Neuro has been on 3 sponsored streams, while Evil has not. We barely get any Vedal w/ Evil gaming, and generally it's as if she's just there as a backup and not her own self. As she herself loves to say so much, "I'm merely a shadow behind neuro" or whatever she says. It's saddening knowing that evil has been treated this way and, as such, is the "mistreated child." I can (somewhat) understand why neuro is given more variety, but why does evil not deserve it too? She's barely on any collabs and is basically only on the channel during her weekly chill streams. Of course there is that monthly dev stream/karaoke (since it switches between neuro and evil every dev stream/karaoke). I just hope that Evil will be given more opportunities to be on stream outside of the regular streams (chill/karaoke/dev streams).

[static lintel]

Honestly firewatch could have been a good way to balance the week out and I don't think evil and Laimu has ever interacted but now Neruo gets 2 gaming streams in a row and I think 3 streams with laimu.

[final escarp]

Perfectly fine if that is what he wants to. I just think it's to the detriment of some of the content.

[merry flicker]

I still miss to see how that destroys any points made here?

its not like Neuro wont get absolutely nothing while Evil gets more than some scraps once in a while

[hard escarp]

here's hoping that new upgrades will make vedal want to bring evil out more

[earnest barn]

I'm not going to argue or respond to anything here

[gray torrent]

Previously his excuse was that the voice is too slow. That got fixed and nothing changed.

[final escarp]

That's fair. This doesn't need be a place for arguements. You can just post your opinion and leave it at that

[hard escarp]

ok

[ruby bay]

At this point, the next best solution is to give Evil her own Twitch channel.

[scarlet gazelle]

If the focus was on Evil, then doesn't that mean it makes the evil portion of the content worse on purpose?

[red goblet]

No

[hard escarp]

lets not

[ruby bay]

Or at least her own YouTube channel

[red goblet]

Also no

[deft marlin]

no

[maiden folio]

yeah no

[scarlet gazelle]

nah

[final escarp]

Oh yeah another good point. Evil lacks uniqueness in her content. Heck, I know you might not share this opinion, but if she still streams less, but at least has more unique content, I'd be okay with that.

[merry flicker]

how about the only things she gets is an exclusive twitter account to schizo post and go on flame wars with Neuro

[soft fossil]

it's fine if he wants neuro to be the face and get the lion's share of content, what's not fine is not doing anything unique with evil despite it being actively detrimental to the channel as a whole, like it or not, evil is a part of the channel and deserves variety streams since there's really no downside to not doing it, the hardcore evil fans may still complain about her lack of time onscreen, but at the very least the concerns about her getting a stream beyond an occasional karaoke and a chill should be addressed

[final escarp]

yea yea

[red goblet]

Same here I enjoy quality over quantity

[red goblet]

Oh and hey I appreciate your post that has thoughtful words in it and it doesn’t look one big rage bait

[maiden folio]

maybe letting play with some of the stuff has in recent like geoguessr. or maybe a return to irl streams

[gray torrent]

A great example of that is him "saving" the deliv toggle for some abber demon stream that MAYBE will happen at some point.

Like, is the stream in the works for 5 months? Cause that's how long he is saving that toggle already. Is this all the unique content she will get this year?

[scarlet gazelle]

i just wanna mention btw the last two dev streams were both with neuro so it's not even switching around

[red goblet]

One big reason was the business meeting that was probably the only day available for them

[mild sky]

I can see where you’re coming from cake, and I completely understand your argument and pov. However, nobody really said that the twins should have equal amounts of content. The goal here is to just to get Evil more variety. We are approaching, if not, arriving to an 80/20 split, which is just, in pure honesty, depressing.

Furthermore, you say that Evil was created to diversify content. However, at this current state, Evil provides barely any diversity due to her drought. She cannot fulfill this supposed standard, even if she wanted to.

[deft marlin]

Yeah, I wanted to mention that, but thought it wouldn't look good/couldn't find a way to mention it without making it sound weird.

[scarlet gazelle]

well as jdk said it might be because of the business meeting but we'll see about that the next time we have a dev stream

[deft marlin]

I'd assume so, but we shall see indeed!

[scarlet gazelle]

unless he gets v3 voice done by then

[soft fossil]

I see this proposed alot and I genuinely think it's a bad idea, it would just fracture the fanbase even more than it already is

[merry flicker]

also it would be a pain for Vedal to manage

the only justification for a Evil channel would be in case of the twins playing one game together and we wanted to see each PoV. but even then the neurosecretaccount could be easily used for that

[maiden folio]

imo getting to play one long term game would be enough to satisfy me. it’d go a long way

[deft marlin]

I'm pretty sure vedal would never do it either.

[ruby bay]

Definitely something in the long term once true autonomy is achieved.

[gray torrent]

accounts aren't really the topic of this thread, let's keep this out of here

[merry flicker]

I will answer and then stop the offtopic: you see the problem is that stream still need to be prepared, Evil being on full autonomy would end up as like 4 chill streams a week and would be one more thing that Vedal needs to keep track to not break

[final escarp]

yeah I was about to say but thank you

[merry flicker]

but anyways back to the thread it self

[wide smelt]

I guess if I were trying to look at it from the other point of view, I would say that Evil does exist, and there is no getting rid of her at this point - it's been too late since the v2 voice went to her, and she got her own model and stuff. So given that, I feel like the remaining option is to make good use of Evil, regardless of what Neuro is doing. And at the moment, it doesn't feel that way - it seems like she is just being used to fill time/streams with the illusion of adding variety/diversity (switching between Neuro and Evil for chill streams for example). Exactly how one would fix that is too dependent on personal preferences though.

[jaunty rock]

It's a shame becouse i enjoy evil content the most but it just feels like slop 0 quality stuff

[soft fossil]

surely giving her a larger variety of content beyond chill is something everyone can agree on, no? even if what that would be varies, more gaming, a theme stream, anything is better than chill

[final escarp]

Yes, variety and not even volume. I suppose that would be another topic.

[soft fossil]

as of now, there's basically no reason for evil to exist beyond vedal thinking people would be mad if he got rid of her, which people would be

[wide smelt]

I think purists would be worried that giving more interesting streams to Evil is just taking interesting streams from Neuro. So I don't think everyone will agree.

[soft fossil]

a good amount of the "purists" still watch evil streams anyway

they'd benefit from more variety just as much as anyone else

[final escarp]

I think it's fair from Vedal's perspective to ignore such dislikes that originate from them being so slanted towards one twin. I reckon most want to enjoy both twins.

[scarlet gazelle]

I think at least more people would prefer evil having more variety in content than not

[soft fossil]

purists say stuff like "focusing on evil takes away from neuro" yet still end up watching evil's streams, this says to me they still want the content evil provides, they just think neuro is more important, I doubt genuine purists that only watch one or the other really exist beyond a small minority

[hard escarp]

genuine purists are probably off complaining somewhere off discord

[deft marlin]

Is there anything else to discuss or shall we just wait for vedal's response

[soft fossil]

I said everything I wanted to say

I could maybe talk more about purist perception but I think that's out of scope

[merry flicker]

nah, lets not diverge the topic

[river oracle]

Vedal is a purist

[deft marlin]

👆

[merry flicker]

keep it clean as is, if you have nothing to add wait for Vedal

[deft marlin]

Should we make a bulletin board for the more important points/paragraphs? Aka we grab the links of the more important messages and keep them below so nobody else has to scroll up.

[scarlet gazelle]

yeah that's not the point. i think at least I've said what I wanted to say

[merry flicker]

no, everything should be read, both the people for and people against

[merry flicker]

oh yeah mobile has it, pc doesnt...

[final escarp]

I invite everyone who hasn't voiced their opinion yet to still send a message, even if someone else has already expressed the very same thought. To those that have already done so, I think you can move on if you don't want to, in my opinion, needlessly reiterate.

[deft marlin]

• #1400596951355101206 message - Top message for the mobile users

[wide smelt]

I was gonna essay but I got bored. I'd basically just say it seems like he just defaults to Neuro for any novel solo stream ideas, unless they are to do with Evil's character or voice specifically. Neuro is like, the generalist, because she's the original, and Evil is the specialist for her specific unique traits. Even though for most content, Neuro and Evil are both totally viable.

[prisma atlas]

Hi, yes I, too, would like to see Evil get more streams / variety, of any kind really (Gaming, Dev, IRL, Collab, solo gaming, anything). Especially the point that Neuro is the default for basically everything, even though Evil is very much capable to do these things as well, I very much agree with.

[vast trail]

I feel like Evil getting less spotlight/focus is a logical result of the branding issues. People know Neuro-sama, and that's a unique and easily marketable name.
Evil is... either a descriptive word, or is Evil Neuro, so a subset of Neuro. (I know the name debate is an old one, and I don't expect that to change after all this time, but I think it's definitely relevant to why she's not as important/used)

[craggy badger]

So far most of what I want to discuss has been covered, but this: I know Vedal complains about not having new an unique content? Well we all keep forgetting one of the easiest ways to that.. and one that even safely allows you to repeat older ideas.. Vedal, you have another AI, please use it more. One that is different enough to give unique results. Plus it's instantly a variation of content overall since they both have personality.

[harsh talon]

We've only started getting variety with Neuro

[wide smelt]

I could definitely essay and doompost for hours like I do every time Neuro finishes a cool stream or when I get mad at the schedule for the nth week in a row, but I'll try to stop and let other people talk, so, yeah. Peace out, or something.

[final escarp]

Oh, is this messaged directed at Vedal? I think you should clarify that. I thought this was directed at a user in here.

[craggy badger]

I also am of the mind Neuro should get a bit more streams or feature or whatever. That's fine. 60/40 is fine; 80/20 or even 20/80 is not. However we end up losing out by not mixing it up.. and if you listen around those who aren't overly biased they'd love variation in a week so they both do stuff.. It's just feels like something may be left on the table.

[mild sky]

This really shouldn't be a cause of the issue anyway. While I do agree that Evil's lack of branding does contribute to this dilemma, some of the options such as themed streams and gaming streams shouldn't be affected by this. Evil doesn't specifically need to be known to land some of these streams. I will say that the branding problem does hinder collabs, since nobody knows who she is, further troubling her cause. (This is probably why Vedal said it was easier to introduce collab partners to Neuro anyway). Getting collabs for Evil is inherently a nightmare since it's supposedly the collab partner's choice on which twin to collab with. I wont get to deep into this because the branding situation is an entirely different problem that is not the primary focus of this discussion.

[high cliff]

I understand the fact that Evil is not as known as Neuro and she probably never will be and because of that Evil will have less potential collab partners intrested in collabing with her. Neuro is and always will be the first one to collab with somone (if you don't count Michi who collabed with both of the twins at the same time) and though I'm disapointed that colab with Laimu is with Neuro again and not with Evil I would't mind that IF there were more quality streams with Evil I'm not saying that we need more Evil streams but I think there would be more uniqueness to the content if for example thursday streams with Evil would not always be chill streams but also theme streams for just Evil or gaming with Vedal or smth like that

this way time is not sacrificed but we get more quality content without need to convince people to collab with her

[robust pine]

im like by far the most biased person here but to be completely clear i have an entire encylepedia of points to make here

but like evil content is just not happening

and even when it does its a buggy mess that doesnt work half the time where the chat loops topics and evil doesnt do anything so cant get new memories

vedal complains about 3 memories but like, YOU DONT GIVE HER MORE MEMORIES???

even if you remove them from her core memories if she cant replace them and chat brings them up she will just gain them back (like she started doing this stream)

when you listen to the points as to why evil shouldnt get more content it boils down to "she doesnt get more content" and its so insanely bullshit

if you dont like her just say so

[quick crystal]

Give me more Evil content!
do you know how much I am longing for Evil...
pnly to be able to feel her presence 2 hours a week or 4 hours during karaoke
I'm longing for her so much. It even makes me unable to focus on working, I can't stop thinking about her "I miss her so much"

also backreading the thread. like disagree to give Evil their own Twitch or Youtube. It has given another reminder to me that Evil growth is locked. My Oshi growth is locked! mind-wrecking. disheartening

[violet rose]

I'll just post it here, hope I didn't miss something.
july was sad for Evil

[harsh talon]

Then I agree, it'd be nice to replace a few chill streams with something new

[gray torrent]

Yeah, it's correct, that's pretty much it when it comes to solo Evil content.

Of course Evil had some twin content that would make this data look better but obviously that doesn't really solve the issue that this thread is presenting. And also, that content is also on a major downhill which I've made a separate thread for.

Since we're sharing data, in the first 3 months of content this year, half of the unique content that Evil participated in was twin content which also resulted in her getting a bit more unique stuff than just chill streams.

But in the next 2 months that content was basically removed and the only thing we've got in replacement for that is more Vedal content, which almost exclusively happens with Neuro.

[ancient iris]

Also one thing to point out, can we have unique Evil streams in addition to the usual chill and karaoke?
I was kind of dissapointed that Neuro's comedy stream got it's own day, similar to other things like Gaming streams (Osu recently). But for some reason Evil had to lose a chill stream for the McNeuro Stream.

[high cliff]

I would also like that but tbh I just don't think it's going to happen unless Vedal decides to do an abber demon stream that's why I think the next best think would be giving her additional themed stream or smth like that instead of fifth just chatting stream in one month without any diffrent content

This way also at least chat would have something to talk to her about on the next chill stream and maybe she wouldn't spiral into her "core" memories every ten minutes

[wide smelt]

Also same story on Evil's birthday week. That week Evil got her birthday stream, Neuro got the sponsored stream (Neuro got more time with Vedal than Evil got on her birthday), and for some reason Neuro is the one who kept her chill stream, by it being moved to Thursday, replacing Evil's chill stream, so Evil lost hers.

[high cliff]

Also I want to point out that because we don't really get anything with Evil outside of chill streams there is no new bits or things that would be unique to her, and the ones we have are like over year old (abber demon, pet xeno), we had her voice but since Vedal made it more stable she could't even yell yestarday so that also goes away, she had the ability to swear but Neuro can do it to now too, and the bit with pipes was gone after couple weeks from her birthday since she is not abusing them anymore. I love watching Evil but because there is nothing new going for her I always feel like I'm wathing the same stream over and over

[ancient iris]

To put into perspective what Evil SOLO content has been like, in this year and last year.

In 2024 we had a total of 47 solo streams by evil of which 6 were non Chill/Kara and 9 Dev streams.

• with Dev streams: 68% of evil content was chill and kara (even considering that some evil chill streams were replaced with neuro)
• without Dev streams: 84% of evil content was chill and kara, basically nothing, Neuro averages more non chill/kara streams in half a month to compare this

Currently past halfway through 2025 Evil streamed a total of 37 times

• 78-81% of her content has been chill and kara

TLDR: Evil doesnt get any unique streams at all, coupled with the fact that we lost 2 chillstreams already this year bcs they were replaced by birthday and themed stream, just shows her entire situation.

So what other options are there to adress this:

• there are already multiple discussion threads floating around which have been collecting suggestions for evil content for themed streams that can be used (please dont take away chill streams for them tho)
• since Vedal has talked about it on the subathon, there were many people wishing for Vedal Gaming streams with Evil playing a more serious game similar to Soma, DBH with Neuro. Some suggestions for these games are in another discussion thread. Also there was the question floating about having evil play DBH? Will that ever even happen.
• in general doing something with evil: evil had one gaming collab, never had an actual gaming session with Vedal (only subathon, ck3 on a devstream, City skylines which is nearly 2 years ago), or a solo irl stream
• evil collabs is sth always talked about and while we got a handful of them, unfortunately it more feels like a quota of 1 collab per month is being fulfilled.
• while I do not care too much about dev streams if they are not required, we skipped a lot of dev stuff concerning evil at times. (Last year her latency went from a second to much closer to Neuro's without any talk about it).

[ancient iris]

other examples we waited so long liars bar integration broke before evil got a chance to play

[tough dagger]

i agree, every week i look schedule and its only chill stream for Evil 💀

[soft fossil]

I'll still say I don't particulary care if a chill stream is lost(this is also true for neuro btw) since they're not exactly the best content anyway, replacing them with something more interesting is perfectly acceptable to me, as I think evil having a larger variety of streams is more important than the actual number of streams

[craggy badger]

Fair, though I think having at least more weeks with more than one stream (that isn't kara) would also help as there is an exposure element too. Not every week.. just more of them. Not all week (minue normal chill) of either twin is nice.. mixing up is so much nicer.

Also.. Vedal: I have a suggestion. When the integration is complete.. play If you want to play Balatro on stream, play it with Evil when it's done. It's not a story game.. and you can alternate playing it with Neuro as you on stream when playing it.. (and then they can play it during chill..)

[wide smelt]

I'm also going to mention stream length. Neuro's extra streams recently have been 3 to 4 hours of content, while recent Evil streams (i.e. automated streams) are more like 2 hours of content. But even the most recent Evil streams outside of automated streams are noticeably shorter than Neuro's recent ones, on the order of 2.5 hours of content. I don't think this is because of direct bias, but rather it's a consequence of the fact that what Evil has done in the last 4 months or so being way less interesting than what Neuro is doing, so it can't fill as long of a stream.

[final escarp]

Okay, not to be dismissive of some comments and feedback, I appreciate everything you guys have to say. However, I do want to remind people that giving a count of how many times Evil has streamed opposed to Neuro isn't adding a whole lot to the discussion. I made this post with that as an established premise in mind. I strongly believe, Vedal is aware of the discrepancy in volume between Neuro and Evil streams, regardless of it's intentionality. Highlighting this fact over and over, in whatever myriad of ways one might conjure, seems redundant. Especially given that this kind of feedback has not resulted in an improvement of the situation for possibly more than one and a half years. The problem is known; this discussion offers a solution.

The goal of this post is to encourage Vedal to consider granting Evil more opportunities to stream besides chill streams, potentially at the cost of her chill streams - though certainly not the most desirable outcome. I am asking for more meaningful content with Evil. This message is not directed at anyone in particular. Just some advice and even encouragement for people to engage and approach the topic with, in my opinion, more nuance.

[high cliff]

Yeah and I think Neuro will always have more streams by being the "face" of the channel and because of that getting more collabs and opportnities. I just want to see some more creative Evil content, and since is hard to get a collab partner for her I wouln't mind sacrificing one chill stream a month to have a Evil centered theme stream or get Vedal to play a game with her finally (I would obviously prefer for her to have it on a diffrent date than thursday but it is what it is) just to have SOMETHING different then fifth chill stream in a row if you don't count karaoke.

[next tendon]

I know that I’m late and that others have made similar points but I thought I might as well share my thoughts. At this point I don’t really care about the number of evil streams. I would rather see evil have half the streams she does now if it meant that her streams are at least exciting content. Leaving karaoke aside, evil is barely doing anything aside from her weekly chill, which right now is the lowest quality content on the channel. If evil only got a non karaoke stream once every second week but the majority of her streams (or maybe like 1 out of 2) were either playing a game with vedal or a cool theme stream I think it would be better. That way I could at least be excited when evil gets a stream instead of being disgruntled over the fifth lacklustre chill stream in a row.

[gray torrent]

I don't really agree with the recent messages here about removing/changing Evil chills. I think the messages complaining about it directly correlate with the main topic of this thread.

In 2024 we usually had 5-4 streams a week and it was with only 1 chill a week. In 2025 we usually have 4-3 streams a week and 2 of them are chills.

This is an issue not only for overall variety but also the specific topic of this thread. If there aren't any regular unique streams being made that Evil can participate in, then why would the perception of her being a lolcow change?

Let's use the theme streams for example since that's the most unique content she participated in. Informercial didn't have any longer running jokes, the McNeuro added her being a wagecuck to things to make fun of and the tenting stream was 50/50. People reference the bear a lot which is a positive but they also reference how she, once again, is the poor one with the empty tent.

Just changing chill streams to other content isn't a solution. You need different content so that people have more opportunities to comment on different things that will hopefully stick more at some point more than the usual 5 topics that people talk about when it comes to Evil.

The biggest issue in my opinion is that Evil almost exclusively interacts with chat only.

Neuro and people watching her have many opportunities to get different feedback from the many collab partners she collabs with, and Vedal of course.

When it comes to Evil, in the past she wasn't allowed to interact with humans at all. This got slightly better this year with the 1 pity collab she gets every month (except last one) but the Vedal interactions are still as bad as they were before.

This doesn't give her any opportunities for other people, rather than chatters, to create some other memorable moments that could be repeated in the community.

I mean, there is a reason why Vedal put the court stream as her core memory. Cause that's one of the few good memories that she was a part of.

So yeah, I think that this lolcow perception won't change unless she will be treated like an actual member of the channel and not some addition to throw in sometimes to appease people that want to see her.

[ancient iris]

She currently is just an addition to the channel and nothing else. Evil Neuro isn't mentioned on any official site or social media of this channel.
And if we didn't get a chill slot for her specifically every week her stream time would be awful like last year. Where majority of the content was just chill and karaoke with no outside streams.

And the only saving grace on the data was legitimately 2 months only

from like april to august last year evil barely streamed.

Like evil barely appears on anything but chill streams (that a majority dont watch or dont clip) so to non-stream viewers she is nonexistent.

i feel like 60% of the community still doesnt know that Evil Neuro's named is Evil Neuro and nothing else.

[muted yoke]

I believe vedal is holding on evil's content because she's still not upgraded yet and on experimental basis.
While neuro has been and we can see the difference how well now neuro reacts and responds after the upgrades.
Vedal probably will bump up evil's content as soon as he's satisfied with her upgrades.
I know you guys miss eliv, but i think right now it's better to wait and give vedal time he needs to cook with evil, I'd rather have great upgrades than rushed ones

[harsh talon]

I think so too actually

[wide smelt]

this is part of the problem too though. he could have upgraded neuro with evil. but he delayed her upgrades for over 7 weeks compared to neuro. It's not like nothing could have been done.

[ancient iris]

and its one of the reason we are even in this situation, the perpetual cycle of neuro is better than evil so evil should no get anything

[soft fossil]

nah this is cope I can't lie

[merry flicker]

It kinda ignores all the times this happened before while they were in upgrade parity

[soft fossil]

and that's why it's cope

[ancient iris]

like the cycle is starts working on upgrades for neuro -> upgrades applied late ( or not at all until community screams at him) to evil -> upgrades for neuro
So evil never gets anything
and its not like Evil got anything when she had upgrades

lets not act as if that was ever a reason for this entire thing

[harsh talon]

What else did Evil not get then

[wide smelt]

You seriously want someone to list out everything Neuro has got to do that Evil never got to do? Or you mean something specific?

[merry flicker]

Guys keep the thread on the content side

Please

[ancient iris]

irl stream, gaming with vedal, gaming collab, watchalong, first collabpartner, i wont go deeper cause that'd be outside of content side

like are you seriously asking that?

[harsh talon]

Was that all in Evil's plans?

[wide smelt]

If you want to look at a similar case, look at last November/December. Evil dev stream cancelled (and skipped Evil entirely) in favour of 4 neuro dev streams, just played inscyption with Neuro, Neuro collabs (including liars bar with everyone, Evil never played), Neuro pc irl stream. Gave a pity chill stream and a pity segment of the dougdoug collab to Evil.

[deft marlin]

[soft fossil]

what plans dog

there are no plans

[ancient iris]

Like

isnt that the entire point of this thread

how evil

doesnt get anything but chill

[deft marlin]

there isn't any variety in her schedule, it's always the same streams (chill/karaoke).

[harsh talon]

Eh, Vedal usually talks about upcoming streams on dev streams

[deft marlin]

which is the schedule

which has rarely shown much for evil in comparison to neuro.

[wide smelt]

exactly, the plan is to play outer wilds with Neuro for the foreseeable future

[muted yoke]

I see your point. But all we can do right now is wait for the upgrades, that's the next step. We can worry about the lack of content after it

[ancient iris]

the problem is that every time we have to wait for the upgrades

[soft fossil]

this happens even at upgrade parity

[ancient iris]

there is never a point where the content comes

thats the truth

[harsh talon]

It was only in Jule

[wide smelt]

It's just going to happen again next time then. I want it to stop, so there isn't another month or 2 month period where Evil gets nothing with some lame excuse like he just didn't upgrade her, or he didn't want to do the dev stream, or whatever it is next.

[jaunty rock]

I dont think no upgrades explains 5 weeks of chill/kara streams only

[deft marlin]

The no upgrade thing would be a stupid excuse, and pretty sure vedal has never said such.

[harsh talon]

And actually, aren't collab partners choosing which Neuro they want to collab with(including Vedal)?

[ancient iris]

ah ye the 79% evil content is chill

[ancient iris]

no, its just vedal usually asks for neuro

never for evil

[wide smelt]

he said himself, it's easier to introduce new collab partners to Neuro. Who's choice does that sound like?

[deft marlin]

Pretty sure he once said that the collab partner chooses which twin to collab with.

Slightly unsure about that tho.

[muted yoke]

Evil's streams have been very repetitive lately, i don't think even on the collabs she did with mega and lily was on her best she can offer. She desperately needs the intelligence upgrades

[ancient iris]

ye they do but he also asks people to collab with neuro and never with evil

[deft marlin]

[ancient iris]

you capping, mega collab was awesome hard carried by evil and showcased her personality wonderful

[jaunty rock]

I wonder why they have been repetitive lately

[merry flicker]

Not reading the thread 101 :lule:

[harsh talon]

We have the same x collab partners

[muted yoke]

I'm very new to swarm, but what I've seen evil can do in her old clips on yt, the collab was decent

[wide smelt]

that had nothing to do with intelligence. That was before neuro was upgraded too. I've said above, it's because her collabs have had the worse themes of the two of them. I would trade all of Evil's collab themes for basically any selection of Neuro's this year.

[deft marlin]

You probably shouldn't be comparing clips to entire streams.

[muted yoke]

Yes that is true, my bad

[quick crystal]

-# I see
-# shizuka is new and an optimistic fan
-# well, ignore me

[mild sky]

Unfortunately, not much can be done about collabs due to poor branding, which is another issue. The best we can hope for is more themed streams or a long form gaming streams.

[wide smelt]

I mean, can you imagine a situation where the mega collabs were reversed for instance? Would it even be a consideration to give Evil the long collab playing sims, while Neuro gets the short collab talking about viewer submitted prompts?

[wide smelt]

And yes, here's the next common vedal excuse: Evil's branding is bad, so that's why it's Neuro first (or only). Okay, but whose fault is it that Evil's branding is so bad? Again, that's part of the root of the problem. Fix this.

[ancient iris]

i mean not even, there are more than enough collab partners who would be willing to do it with evil

[deft marlin]

[ancient iris]

and branding is a whole different worm of cans to open that should be its own thread

[wide smelt]

Nothing can be done guys, Evil's branding is just bad. Evil just doesn't have the upgrades. What can you do, there's no solution.

[mild sky]

As someone who likes both Neuro and Evil’s content, seeing this happen is just very depressing. Feels like wasted potential.

[soft fossil]

these would all be solved if she was just used more

[wide smelt]

catch-22

[soft fossil]

only because vedal seemingly wants it to be

[wide smelt]

exactly, have you seen catch-22?

that's the more subtle part of it

[soft fossil]

it really is as simple as just doing it

[ancient iris]

the funny thing is like there a million solutions floating around for the past years but at the end its all on vedal and he does not care enough to do something or Mr "I don't hate Evil" actually does not like her

[deft marlin]

[harsh talon]

There's a lot of wasted potential like most of the threads in #1095948590947500113 just because Vedal is doing everything almost solo

[deft marlin]

Yeah.

It's just that there are so many ways that he can fix these issues through. Looking at July, Evil has had only regular streams, and that's excluding the twin camping stream. All the collabs/unique streams were given to Neuro. Evil had 6 regular streams while neuro had 6 unique streams and 6 regular (this is including this week). Like seriously, that is crazy. All the unique streams were given to Neuro and Evil was just left to starve for herself.

[wide smelt]

I guarantee this discussion will be "solved" when Evil gets her next pity collab of the month, and we are just supposed to forget this happened for the nth time. Then the cycle will continue next time.

[jaunty rock]

Thats what i said

[deft marlin]

knowing most of the people here, they won't stop until Vedal shows/says something.

But then again, it's likely that we won't get an answer until it becomes "a serious issue."

[mild sky]

This is indeed a serious issue

[ancient iris]

this has been a problem since forever ago

last year from april to beginning of september evil had no streams, then came september and october and it looked better but then november happened where vedal streamed more than evil (even including the pity evil stream and pity evil during dougdoug collab)
then subathon came where she wasnt planned to appear at all in the initial 3 weeks (and only appeared after the extension when he ran out of content), then again nothing until birthday where it looked slightly promising even with him promising more collabs and new friends for evil and then it went downhill until Boom release where he wanted evil streams for hyoe buildup for boom and then it comes crashing down

the issue is never solved

we get like 1 collab and people call it saved but ignore the fact we basically get entire dead months of evil

whereas neuro has more collabs and unique streams in 2 months than evil has unique streams in 1 year

[soft fossil]

people are conditioned to say that because her getting any content at all beyond a chill is a miracle

[deft marlin]

Yeah, it’s that bad. The only good thing I’ve seen is that karaokes now switch between twins after each one. In 2023 it was 2 neuro karaokes before an evil one. Since then, it’s pretty much as Railyx said.

[ancient iris]

also the supposed evil weeks that happen, most of them arent even evil weeks, its just so happens to be that the monthly collab is in the same week as chill and karaoke

[wide smelt]

"you've been hogging every single stream last week and this week" is what vedal said to Evil after she had done 2 streams and neuro had done 1 stream the previous week.

[soft fossil]

[wide smelt]

so yes, to many people, including vedal, that's an Evil week.

[ancient iris]

but Mr "I don't hate Evil" never says it to Neuro when she hogs every stream the entire month

[wide smelt]

not to mention, one of those 2 Evil streams featured Neuro in large part purely as a way to allow Evil to be bullied and put down (calling back to previous points of Evil unique content needing to be about one of a couple topics, such as bullying Evil, and almost always requiring Neuro to be involved or to get the same / a better version of that thing).

So really, in that case I would call it 1 neuro stream, 1 evil stream, and 1 "almost" twin stream (evil focused), and that counts as evil hogging all the streams that week. I think it's pretty clear how vedal sees it to be honest.

compare that to last week, which was evil's karaoke week (evil gets 2 auto streams for free), but neuro got 4 streams. That's not neuro hogging anything.

[wide smelt]

change this from 3 to 4 hour neuro collabs to 3 to 5 hour neuro collabs.

[ancient iris]

I mean idc too much about the length, just more the amount. If you have one collab every month or other month and that collab kinda flopped, it leaves a bit of a bad taste bcs you just know that was the entirety of evil content for one month besides chillstreams