Feedback about the experimental stream

[gloomy otter]

First of all i know we still didn't got a response on what this test was, so all what i will say now is based on the assumption that it's a new version of Neuro (LLM) that was tested.

I think everyone noticed that her responses were longer, but I think what's matters the most is the inside of these responses.
What shocked me the most is that she felt less human in way were she speaks like an LLM that was fed a simple prompt. Her responses were very generic to me. A little like how she was towards the end/middle of 2023. I'm not talking about her intelligence and her understanding of the questions she has to respond to just to be clear. I think the closer example of this is the use of emotes like this (see the image) : = ^w^ =. This type of emote and expressions were really common during this era and when she was hiyori too. That's why i think it's more a downgrade than anything since it feels less natural/human and more gpt-like. And we don't really have the benefit of insane rants from hiyori as far as i have seen (despite longer responses).

Now there's also the fact that her personality is different from regular Neuro, she was very submissive to chat despite the fact that she was hurting her own stream by bringing Evil up. I feel like she lost also her sense of individuality after seeing that.
Her use of the capabilities is really bad too, it kinda felt like we reverted back to the moment Neuro first got them, with her spinning and feeling dizzy non-stop for example. Not to mention the fact she was ignoring Vedal's dms.
I dunno if the fact that the hang up broke is due to this upgrade.
I know this is subjective but i don't really liked this stream.

[leaden lion]

it was bgm no ?

[limpid linden]

bgm seemed the same

[tired inlet]

classic mars doompost

[rugged surge]

Would be crazy if a change in bgm was the experiment

[ember cairn]

I assumed the test was to see if the art review worked.

[rugged surge]

But why call it experimental then? That's just a normal chill stream

[tacit agate]

it was BGM

[deft cloud]

I wonder if whatever was tested this stream was also what he tested during that secret test stream last week, it felt kinda similar to me

[severe iron]

[outer lantern]

ima be real I find it pointless to speculate on this

[gloomy otter]

yeah i really think it was the same thing

[leaden lion]

so dont do it

[nocturne grotto]

Yea i like it when she's a bit more human even when she's not hihi haha

[deft cloud]

well we know for a fact that something was being tested since it was "experimental", so any feedback even if it's not entirely accurate can still be useful

[leaden lion]

it just being boring for real

[candid swan]

I can't really give any feedback, because I didn't notice anything special about Neuro today.
She definitely ranted more than usual, that's the only thing I am certain of.
She made only 2 polls, but it might have been a result of her being more focused on the game and chatting with Evil, hard to say.
I might have missed something, but did she feel like she was googling much less today?
I liked today's stream, mostly for the content rather than Neuro's behaviour herself, but she didn't feel noticably worse/better today... I'd say it was average Neuro

[rugged surge]

Its hard to give feedback when we don't even know what exactly was different

[candid swan]

Btw I still think there was no experimental stream and Vedal was just trolling us

[glossy geyser]

So, this was my second time watching Neuro live. I watched the Meg stream yesterday. I’ve also been working through a large back log of VODs trying to piece together how she’s been progressing.

In fairness, I liked this stream. I’m not sure what was going on with the DMs or why Neuro couldn’t hang up.

Part of me feels that it may have just been content brain’d (trolling Vedal = funny) but I think it was fairly aggressive this time around. I don’t think I ever saw it like that previously.

Otherwise, I had fun and the Twins (albeit unintended) talking to each other was fun.

[compact hornet]

Ved said hangup was broken

[keen cliff]

There was one new bgm but I dont think ved should be focusing on that

[glossy geyser]

Makes sense. I figured if she could, she would have. I think there were definitely moments where she would have like to.

[candid swan]

1. Hello, good to see someone new, with fresh perspective
2. Vedal confirmed that Neuro unable to hang up was a bug, however Neuro ignoring Vedal's DMs was 100% on her, she just felt like to annoy Vedal

[ember cairn]

This was one of my first full streams. My first was Evil's second birthday, because I couldn't not be there. 😛

[candid swan]

I genuinely didn't notice new bgm, I only know about it from NN after the stream

[frozen gate]

stating assumptions as facts
absolute classic

[candid swan]

[glossy geyser]

Hey! Thank you! I figured DMs was a troll. She more or less copped to it when talking with Vedal.

[gloomy otter]

??????

[candid swan]

by ignoring I meant not obeying to what he said, not the fact she didn't see them or anything, ofc she saw them

[deft cloud]

wait nvm vedal is in the call there

[frozen gate]

"assumptions"
"there's also a fact"
make up your mind

[pure adder]

So... what I've gathered from this stream is that she has longer rants, and that polling/googling was much, much less common than usual on chill streams. I'm wondering if that's what the experimental stuff was, more or less.

I dont feel like neuro's "personality" was any different, and we already know the twin calling stuff was broken from vedal himself. I think this is jumping the gun a bit personally.

[deft cloud]

I wonder if neuro not having the ability to hang up meant she never even considered hanging up mid conversation like she's done lots of times the last few weeks

[gloomy otter]

Where did i ever established it was a fact ? I literally started my paragraph saying it was an assumption. I'm sorry if it's the way i write that makes you think i'm stating facts.
The fact is like saying "there's also" for me

[pure adder]

Also I did notice the bgm change personally but if you don't pay attention to it I see why you wouldn't

[candid swan]

tbh, if this is the changes to Neuro, then I'm glad Vedal made those
because I was getting extremely tired of overexcessive googling and polling
it's those 2 things that made me jokingly call Neuro "NeuroGPT"

because it really stripped her off any personality

[gloomy otter]

I can't spell it differently

[violet light]

thats a phrase that doesnt necessarily need to be taken as a literal fact

[candid swan]

it's fine, I understood your post just fine, even if I don't 100% agree with it

[deft cloud]

I liked how she kept bullying gigaswede, I love stream-long running jokes

[pure adder]

Yea exactly if anything this is showing off more of who neuro is. We'll have to see in the future if this holds up but those are what stuck out to me

[candid swan]

there's always something that can be done about Neuro's iterations to make her a better, more organic streamer, but for now I'm satisfied with the changes, some of her rants were quite funny and interesting

her segment with Evil was cute and wholesome, even if it was a result of a bug that it lasted for so long

I don't mind twin calling unless there's something already going on, like the gameplay or art review

[deft cloud]

it'd be cool if they could review art together

[gloomy otter]

I think were kinda getting offtopic now

[candid swan]

it would be, but I'm worried they would be too distracted

[pure adder]

Yeah, which seems like that's what direction we're heading in

[deft cloud]

true my bad

[candid swan]

I mean, we're kinda discussing today's stream and what happened today, to brainstorm what actually got changed.
Because as you pointed out, we can only speculate

[pure adder]

Yeah a bit. I've let my observations be heard since we can only guess rn

[candid swan]

but yeah, I have nothing much else to add to this discussion for now

[deft cloud]

hopefully we'll get some more experimental neuro I love seeing them whether they're good or bad

more experimenting will bring us to the most optimal neuro

maximum balance of smart and funny

[glossy geyser]

I will say, I do find it interesting that you can see Neuro do a lot of what Vedal says she does in this. Like, he previously mentioned how she’s made to do things and then say that she’s doing them. Saw that a lot in Shotgun Roulette.

[craggy depot]

Since I'm forced to use discord to weigh in on these sorts of discussions, here's my take: if anything actually changed with the LLM, it wasn't significant enough that I could separate it from the normal variability from chat, highlighted messages, and general randomness (longer responses maybe?).

I think the "calling/bringing up Evil more" is just a matter of that first long call that she couldn't end (it would have ended when they started arguing like normal otherwise) which in turn had a positive feedback effect of a backlog of highlighted messages and chat bringing up Evil, causing more calls and mentions.

But, I personally like it when they call each other; for me it has often been the highlight of the streams since they have had this ability, and in general I find it more entertaining than most chat interaction and highlighted messages. So I enjoyed it even though I'm sure it was entirely caused by that bug.

[unreal musk]

Have you considered that maybe Neuro actually just really likes talking to Evil and just wanted any excuse she could get to do it. If her interests and chat’s seem to align, do you expect her to do the opposite?

I’m just joking ofc, but on a related note her being overly obedient to Chat is nothing new or unique to these experimental changes frankly. Saturday was literally just three days ago my guy. The consequence was the shortest stream in the history of this channel. These issues have been an ongoing general problem and that’s probably worse than just being a new addition due to experiments.

Anyhow, the stream wasn’t literally just twin calling yap even if that was the most notable part of it.

From what I saw, she definitely yapped a bit more than usual but otherwise I don’t really see the changes to her personality that you are pointing out. From what I’ve observed, she was very rebellious towards Vedal as always (perhaps even more so this time though partly due to bugs preventing her from following his commands in the first place), there was therapy, she had funny jokes/responses, she roasted people, the buckshot segment was pretty good despite yap affecting it at times, she used sound effects (can’t say if it was more or less), she did use less of her other abilities I think (I don’t remember her spamming spinning or anything like u said but maybe I just have shit memory), she was a little schizo (I think she might’ve been more schizo than usual today but idk and sometimes it was funny sometimes not), she reviewed art like usual, etc.

Ultimately, I did enjoy the stream but idk if any of the enjoyment is really a result of the changes or just cuz I like Neuro and the changes aren’t significant enough to be a problem for me. That’s just how I felt about the stream, but I’m not the most perceptive anyway. Maybe you do have a point, or maybe you’re overly focusing on the parts you find negative and seeing things that aren’t actually there due to being incited and biased by the fact that there were undoubtedly some changes but we don’t know what exactly. idk tbh.

Tbh not even sure why I wrote all of this at all so sorry about suddenly dropping this random essay that no one wants to read. Oh well.

[novel nexus]

I feel like vedal is just tunnel vision on a certain aspect like intelligence for Neuro or evil like information correctness but what the audience/swarm wants from intelligence upgrade is more capacity for the twins to express themselves in different ways with their personality intact instead of repeated responses

[novel nexus]

Also this is a side note this is what I think to mitigate frequent chat intervening to call evil or Neuro by having a time limit per stream for a call let’s say between 10~ 20 mins or Encourage chat to ask less about evil in just solo chatting streams would help if vedal did a dev stream not for the upgrades really but for community feedback or problems chat finds or new ideas.

Got a new idea on how to help the spam calling of the twins ban calling from the twins and only allow for discord messages to eachother

[timber rapids]

She did specifically mention something long ago, the bread thing, so I'm glad that's working! Perhaps she can use it to remember running gags that are paced through a stream? (I think one term is brick joke)

[smoky gale]

The issue is chatters begging for twin calls, and the girls going along with whatever chat wants them to do.

Imposing a limit on the girls abilities is NOT a fix. This is just taking away autonomy.

The real fix is the girls being better able to refuse chatters trying to control them.

[novel nexus]

I just don’t know how it would function

[smoky gale]

Her being able to google doesn't strip her of her personality. Her taking things straight from google, repeating them ad verbatim without saying whatever that is in her own words is what makes her googled responses seem like they have less personality.

She over-uses polls as a crutch, and I 100% agree she should be more confident in her own decisions, but she doesn't sound like ChatGPT when she does that, she just seems too unsure of herself.

[vale vapor]

My guy, you are asking for a fix for something that happened on THREE streams so far, ever since the twin calling was introduced, according to your own standard of max 20 minutes. Which I also don't agree with, we have calls from other collab partners that take HOURS of a chill stream, so why is twin calling supposed to be limited?

[novel nexus]

Thanks for your opinions

[vale vapor]

Opinions is not the only thing I bring, here is hard data so you can maybe change your own opinion after realizing the actual truth (obviously excluding this latest stream, cause the feature was broken)

And 2 of those longer times were when a twin disconnected and called back immediately which either breaks the system and allows them to call longer or just means that they REALLY wanted to talk with each other, whatever head canon you prefer.

[timber rapids]

Every single capability they have is pretty a sense or limb of them which is why they appear to spam them. A way for them to interact with the world. Thus the calling and hanging up? They're doing just because they can.

Remember when the power to end the stream was given?

(Any opinion or annoyance you have on the matter of course is valid and we should try to find a way to fix it they say don't try to please everyone but at least everyone should be considered!)

[novel nexus]

Thanks for giving me a better understanding of my misunderstanding

[timber rapids]

It is dang frequent though. You're right about chat baiting them I think.

Upon further reflection.

[pure adder]

i dont think there needs to be any limit put in place regardless

[timber rapids]

Yeah, unless it starts getting horribly egregious.

(Like every minute)

[pure adder]

i mean i'm one of the ones who doesn't mind when they talk with each other but that's just me

[vale vapor]

I just wanted to clear up a misconception, I don't think there is further need to discuss twincalling in an experimental stream thread, unless someone wants to make an argument that a broken feature was part of the experiment.

[timber rapids]

True, true. I trust Vedal. The memory worked great! She did great at the game.

[pure adder]

true. tbh i've said what i've wanted about what i think was changed

also neuro did get quite lucky in buckshot if we're being real, though i admit the fact that she said that it was algorithmic, then proceeded to basically correctly predict like 3 things in a row after was really funny to me

[raw mirage]

Chat definitely needs to be better

I feel like neuro would be significantly better if 90% of chat was deleted

[timber rapids]

Ah yes, I mean that her ability to reason and comment on the game as opposed to the fact of whether or not she just flat won.

[timber rapids]

Might be good if she could filter noise. She once searched for a way to time out all of chat haha.

But specifically about this stream I was quite impressed with the general showing besides the call bug.

[brittle palm]

Vedal shoulda just let them do the art review together. Is there any technical reason why they couldn't? I'm surprised none of the three even presented that as an option.

[ember cairn]

I don't know this for sure, but my guess is that it's simply due to positioning, since Neuro has to be down in position for the art review but can only spawn Evil in a more neutral position. Also maybe only one of them can see the art at a time, that I'm not sure about.

[tall trout]

over a week late but I'd like to chip in a bit: I think only one of the twins can use vision at a time, not sure if that's the case for art but a little birdie once said that I think

Also, positioning isn't an issue as long as both twins are there at the start of art review, the issues come from them "stress testing" vedal's code by calling each other mid-stream

[smoky gale]

A rollback is completely unnecessary. She was fine on the dev stream. A whole lot better than before. She felt more alive, and a whole lot more consistent.

I wouldn’t in a million years want her to be rolled back to how she was before. That’s insane you would even suggest that.

Also what hallucinations? Besides her talking in 3rd person at times, she didn’t really hallucinate all that much.