#Highlighted messages make the stream worse

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

wraith ravine
#

Highlighted messages should go
I have been saying this for months. And now I will say it once again in more structured form. Criticism and suggestions are welcome

What problems highlighted messages bring in my opinion:

  1. They make neuro loop in some cases because they queue up. Yes she can chose to ignore, but more often than not she reply and this way restarting the circle.
  2. With the modern amount of highlighted messages it's almost impossible to get your normal messages to be read. You have to play a guessing game, and hope she won't pull the next highlighted messages. I think this also causes a general decrease in quality of messages, with most chatters resorting to copypastas and emotes, instead of trying to talk to Neuro.
  3. They are inserting prompt, derailing Neuro thoughts. This + 2 other points make Neuro solo streams much worse experience (especially when highlighted messages leak into art review for example and take her focus away)

My ideas to solve it:

  1. Just remove prio queue entirely and make highlighted redeem to increase the chances of your messages being read. Also reduce the price of the said redeem. Atleast 300 bits in message can give an increase in chance of being read as well.
  2. The same solution as the first one but with no chance increase.
  3. I don't have the data of bits/point prio messages, so this can either work or absolutely backfire. But remove/change highlighted redeem so it won't put you in prio queue. And then make a prio queue dono messages only. (Bonus: Make a separate segment, like 20-30 minutes of chill stream to read dono messages?)

Last stream showed us pretty well, that Neuro loops way less and has better ideas when she is not constantly promoted by queued messages. It also boosts engagement.

dark coral
#

I'd also want to bring up the drop in response quality. Highlighted messages let people push anything through just because they can pay bits, no matter how low-effort or off-topic the message is. Call beggars, people forcing their headcanons, and random or uninteresting comments all end up dragging down the quality of the stream. I get that it’s lucrative since it brings in bits, but at the very least, Neuro should have the option to ignore or filter messages that aren’t worth responding to.

mortal yarrow
#

While I do agree with your point, there are certain parts that I find kind of eh. For the first issue, doesn’t the solution bring the same issue? I mean, like, it doesn’t change the fact that Neuro can read and reply to what chat says. Looking at how chat currently is, I’m pretty sure the majority of what Neuro would read is going to be “Om” or some copypasta. Yes, she can ignore them, but every now and then it’ll get through (Similar to highlighted messages.) Of course these issues can be dealt with, but I’m just trying to point out that what you mentioned also has similar cons. If I’m wrong, please do tell me (I’m not trying to be rude or anything.)

#

Other than that, your idea seems much better. evilVibe

wraith ravine
# mortal yarrow While I do agree with your point, there are certain parts that I find kind of eh...

dw, you are not rude.
Highlighted messages appear after she ends a sentance and look for a prompt. Because of it being queued, it will always be offtopic, when the chat message will have a better chance to help neuro develop her current thought. Emote/copypasta spam will become less of a problem when chatters will realise that they can speak to their streamer again, and not just wait for 50k points.
Also what Jive said

mortal yarrow
#

I can't disagree, thanks for giving out your thoughts! I guess we'll see how Vedal views this idea when/if he sees it. PauseSama

haughty geyser
#

no

wraith ravine
west ember
#

Maybe before responding to highlighted chat, prioritize the one closer to the current context, or try to make the response stay in context? (I am not expert of LLM and prompting, only some very basic concept. Just wondering if that is possible)

south veldt
#

interesting, I will say the last stream did not just have priority messages off. it also had reading chat as optional for neuro, while on solo streams normally she is just fed it automatically but in the comedy stream she could choose when to read chat. this can often lead to her sticking with bits for longer and I use it for when she's supposed to be focusing on something like in presentations

if memory serves i experimented with doing this for a whole solo stream once but people didn't notice too much of a difference

dense night
#

Well, in this case, it felt better to me, more natural

#

-# Which I imagine would make sense, seeing as most streamers aren't forced to read the chat.

river isle
minor kraken
#

maybe it's cuz things are a bit different now compared to before with chat, but it did feel different

#

i'm pretty sure i was one of the ones who could tell during then. it was during subathon right?

fickle spear
#

No clue if it would be possible and it'd lead rise to coordination/alts to bypass it but maybe highlighted message redeems could be their own thing?

Like, every X hours you get one charge of it, and that cooldown only restarts once it's used? (Maybe mixed with redeems that only take a portion of the cost to do silly things on the stream)
Also true, optional reading should be the usual setting

wraith ravine
west ember
safe sequoia
#

It might help if Neuro/Evil has more specific tools to deal with chat, like filters of their own?

molten herald
#

it’s a way for the community to interact with neuro and vedal gets money out of it neuroShrug

fickle spear
safe sequoia
#

Yeah, and such a thing wouldn't have to be permanent. Like, if chat goes through a phase and spams some random word for half the stream Neuro or evil just putting that word on a temporary ignore list for the next hour or two would probably deal with it.

#

But I can see Neuro or Evil being too liberal with it, so there might need to be a 'double check' function on it with a cooldown, or some other awkward complicating factor.

#

(Though I would not at all be surprised if what I'm describing is actually trivial to code, I also would not be surprised if it would be a complete disaster neurOMEGALUL . I've no insight in those things.)

candid fiber
#

did feel weird seeing neuro say chat didnt react or something similar when chat was spamming GOODONE or similar

#

but idk what the solution to that would be without introducing more latency

pulsar quest
candid fiber
pulsar quest
#

I think a system where Neuro is the one who ultimately chooses which messages to show on screen, which messages to reply to (maybe not the exact same) is best, where bits "highlight" the messages but don't guarrantee the response. That's basically just like a human streamer: more likely to read messages from people who highlight their messages or maybe have longer subscription badges.

#

Neuro can even prioritize messages that fit better into the current topic/discussion. Or she could pick a message to respond to if she wanted to change the topic.

royal swan
# candid fiber but idk what the solution to that would be without introducing more latency

Without introducing some explicit way to make her aware of short time passages (which I have no idea how could be done), maybe she could have an action that sends back a prompt to her after some time, similar to how I assume poll results work, but without the polls themselves.

That way she could do something like, for example "<question to chat> /wait 5s", and after 5s she could receive some response like "Enough time has passed, check the result of <question to chat>"

tulip frost
fierce sand
#

While I understand how it can feel upsetting to have your normal message be overshadowed by a highlighted one, I don't agree on getting rid of the current section. Here's my opinion on this :

  • Highlighted messages being almost sure to be read (unless she donowalls you because the previous highlighted message has thrown her into spiraling thoughts) are a good incentive for people to spend bits, and running Neuro seems to be quite expensive, so the more the better. Lowering, or even removing those chances would, in my opinion, lower the number of people willing to spend bits, even if you reduce the price.
  • Having highlighted messages throughout the chill streams allows Neuro to come up with specific topics that she brings back later in the stream, which I think improves the comedic effect when she mixes them together as it feels more "natural" for her to reference things that she read/said earlier in the stream, and that consistency is not guaranteed if she's just reading the chat.
  • I do agree on the art review part. If highlighted messages were disabled during that part, it would prevent her from getting side-tracked or straight-up ignoring some fanarts.
  • If there's one issue that I do have with highlighted messages, it's that they're often used to prompt her into a brand new subject all of a sudden, like calling Evil to talk about something unrelated, but that's mostly an issue on the users being immature than on Neuro or the highlighted messages system itself, and with a bit more filtering it may be possible to take care of that issue without removing the entire system. If people are willing to spend money to send stupid messages, just make Neuro ignore these messages or dismiss them, and it'll be a win-win situation.
hot halo
#

Personally I didn't enjoy last stream and I even think it showed that Neuro is better with highlighted messages. During the comedy stream Neuro was supposed to stay on topic and make jokes, but instead after a few one-liners she refused and begun "just chatting". That could be seen when Neuro over and over again said "how are you today?" to chat. I think thats because Neuro was without idea or prompt and just defaulted to "hello" which I found boring after some time. I think Neuro just on her own isnt as funny as when someone from outside (like chat) tells her a funny question or introduces a random topic, I think that makes the stream much more lively and entertaining. You are right that Highlighted messages are often off topic because of the queue, but I think the right decision would be to reform the queue instead of taking away Highlighted messages. What Vedal said about Neuro being able to optionally read chat and your suggestion with the Highlighted messages, I think would just distance Neuro from the chat and take away why the Community is so interactive

cursive anvil
cursive anvil
minor kraken
hot halo
#

My idea would be to bring in a Tag System of some sort, so that Highlighted messages can be can pulled in by Neuro depending on context. For example when Neuro is talking about Grok, she could pull a highlithed message with the tag Grok

red tartan
#

Imagine how long the "Neuro decides when to end it" stream would've been had highlighted messages not existed mhm

minor kraken
#

So I think this stream just justified this

red tartan
#

Okay tbf the Evil edition ended because she just donowalled the highlighted message and decided to end but the neuro point still stands

summer mountain
#

exhibit A from today

crisp oar
deep tusk
#

Highlighted messages make the stream better. Without them we just get big ol' rambling nothing burgers. Neuro gets unintresting without them.

last forge
#

I do agree that there should just be stream segments with highlighted messages and segments without. Rn they’re just spammed with highlighted messages without break unless they’re talking to someone else or doing something else. I do also like Fridge's idea of just making highlighted redeems have increased chances of being read instead of it being a guarantee cuz I dislike priority queue.

To add on, maybe there should be a cooldown for highlighted messages where after a certain number of highlighted messages people have to wait for an amount of time to send more. Or maybe highlighted messages can be more spaced out so only one highlighted message can appear in a span of a minute or something.

wraith ravine
#

Chat is just better than highlighted messages because it's not queued, because its fair and because its more on topic

#

She also can't ask questions about her last thought, because when she will look for answers from chat she will get prompted from queue instead

deep tusk
#

We have times where highlighted messages are off, and it's terrible

wraith ravine
#

We had comedy special and it was great wdym

deep tusk
wraith ravine
#

yes

deep tusk
#

well, on topic doesn't mean good, and chat isn't necessarily on topic. I just wanted to show that not everyone thinks the quality is better without highlighted messages

#

Neuro gets stuck endlessly on topics, many of them boring. It's not great when she does philosphy or prolonged emotional introspection because shes as dumb as rocks and has no life experience. And other topics end up nonsensical after long enough.

#

I don't wanna stay on topic when her topics are terrible

river token
deep tusk
# river token examples?

twins will talk about basiclly nothing forever. It sounds insightful at first, but when you listen at all it's all a bunch of junk. It's an awnser, sure, but it just sounds like you were trying to "say something meaningful" instead of actally thinking about the topics and bringing uniqe views. And they end on I support you, and then keep going and say the same stuff again.

river token
deep tusk
river token
deep tusk
#

I also doubt that chat would suddenly become any sort of intellegent or insightful just because we removed highlighted messages

river token
minor kraken
molten herald
safe sequoia
cursive anvil