Choice to extend chill streams

[sand hedge]

I've noticed Neuro/Evil wanting to continue streaming at the end a couple of times. I do agree that stream length should be limited though, but I had an idea:

-Chill stream base time: 2h25min
-Once time is over, Neuro/Evil gets choice: [End Stream] or [Extend Stream]
-[End Stream] initiates stream ending sequence + raid
-[Extend Stream] extends stream (up to 3 times) by 10min/10min/5min respectively
-If no choice was made within 1min of asking, the default "End Stream" is chosen

This would give Neuro/Evil a bit of control over how long the streams are, but not by an overly significant margin. (Exact details can be modified/expanded upon)

[iron lotus]

I think it's interesting as an experiment, but in practice most likely each time streams will last the maximum and in this case system makes no sense

[sand hedge]

I was wondering about that myself as well, but I think they could be "psychologically" influenced a bit by wording, e.g. with a prompt like "You should end the stream soon", nudging them towards ending, but still keeping an open option towards extending if they retaliate. Should create a more variable result

[crisp sinew]

Could be a nice experiment as the first person said, otherwise I honestly don’t know. I prefer the current system as it allows me to know when the stream ends (Since well stream times suck for me).

[sand hedge]

The current stream time in 2h35m, with my suggestion it would be roughly 2h35m ± 10min, so the change shouldn't feel very significant

Could be an experiment for a month to see how it feels, but likely not a big priority since it doesn't change much, but an idea nonetheless

[fossil bramble]

if i did this I'd bring the default stream length down

would be kinda funny if chat pissed neuro off one day so she just ends earlier

[sand hedge]

that's what I was thinking as well

[fossil bramble]

at first i thought bad idea but now im thinking it might not be so bad

[sand hedge]

would also give some positive chat feedback if Neuro/Evil claims to extend the stream time for chat (or for someone in vc) because they're having fun and don't wanna end stream yet

overall funny and wholesome both in one

[fossil bramble]

could add more actual consequences to chats actions

like timeouts

[sand hedge]

could make chat act more normal if they wanted the stream to last longer, that'd be one way to try to nudge chat to (try to) be on their best behavior

[crisp sinew]

I guess so, it’d be very cool indeed though.

[iron lotus]

In this case things could go the other way and instead of constantly long streams there will be very short ones and some people will start rioting lmao
But these are all theories, like I said before, as an experiment, it would be cool imo
The more twins have control, the better

[simple harbor]

unpredictability might not be nice for some people who plan stuff around the streams

[sand hedge]

Could also change prompt based on progress:
-After base time: "Would you like to stream for a bit longer?"
-After 1st extension: "You should look towards ending stream soon"
-After 2nd extension: "You REALLY should end your stream now"
-After 3rd extension: "I'm ending your stream, your have no choice"

Should create more of a bell curve in terms of stream end times

[sand hedge]

I'd argue the unpredictability would be quite thrilling. All the best things in life are things you can't predict, life would be boring without them

[fossil bramble]

nah it would still be like 2h minimum probably

[iron lotus]

Against the often unknown a couple hours before the stream schedule, +-25 minutes the length of the stream im sure seems like nothing for these people xd

[outer elbow]

I'm all for giving the twins more control, just like with the idea of them controlling the toggles that was mentioned a while back etc.

This idea also seems way better as "consequences" than timeouts cause those basically ended up as a reward with people bragging about a personalized message they got. Meanwhile them going "screw you, i'm ending the stream" when chat pisses them off or extending it a bit when chat behaves seems much better in theory.

Maybe do it -10/+10 as a start, just to test it out? I feel like going all the way down to 2h is too much.

[dusky ravine]

I 100% agree with this.

[sand hedge]

My initial suggestion was relatively safe with 2h30m ±10 as well, but if we really want to sell the consequences aspect of it, 2h30m ± 15min seems like the golden range to me

[dusky ravine]

Hopefully chat would be much more respectful if they know that Neuro could just get upset and end the stream.

[sand hedge]

It could even be a completely alternate "3 strike system" instead, where at 2h15 the System tells Neuro/Evil "You should look to end stream within the next 30min", each strike removes 10min from stream time (optional), and at 3 strikes, she just initiates the end stream sequence

There's many different ways to do it, I wouldn't be sure which is the best, but I'll just post some food for thought

funny ideas to brew some creative chaos

[ashen shard]

you have a lot of faith to think chat will behave even if the duration of the stream is at stake

[dusky ravine]

Nah just sentiment analysis.

[dusky ravine]

It would probably help.

I would love to see Neuro actually dishing out serious punishments once she’s smart enough to know when it’s appropriate.

Right now it’s too much like a game to people.

[ashen shard]

Punishing the whole stream because a random made a comment that Neuro didn't like is so dumb imo.
I prefer the timeouts idea that Vedal proposed, hopefully it's about the nuke timeouts that have been talked about since a long time.

[dusky ravine]

That’s why I said “when it’s appropriate”. Would have to be more than just one person too.

[sand hedge]

I don't think Neuro reads one message at a time, the chance of her getting OneGuy'd is low, it'd be more a case of the whole chat annoying her

[dusky ravine]

If a bunch of people are spamming stuff that upsets Neuro, there should be consequences, and ending the stream isn’t far off from what a human streamer might if they’re going through something like that.

[ashen shard]

She does read one message at a time in most of the time. She only starts to take in account multiple messages when it's spam of an emote or the same message.

[dusky ravine]

👆

[sand hedge]

I don't think she does, not anymore at least, she used to back when chat was slow

feel free to correct me if I'm wrong tho, as I have no idea

[ashen shard]

So like 10 people will impact the whole experience of thousands of people, that's what you're telling me ?

[ashen shard]

she still reads one message at a time, if she was reading multiple messages in one go she wouldn't be capable of answering questions.

[dusky ravine]

If it will get people to be more respectful of Neuro, yes.

[spring grove]

Huge new idea: Make the baseline 2:15. We've never had that as a baseline before.

[ashen shard]

i don't think it will work

[outer elbow]

This is literally already a thing. All you need is 10 people spamming the same thing to completely derail the stream.

And its usually WAY worse than 10 less minutes or whatever amount it will be.

[dusky ravine]

The streams already last 2 hours anyways, that would be the minimum, the streams will be just as long as they are now.

[sand hedge]

if that was the case, she would always read priority messages, but she can donowall, which means she's capable of choosing what to pay attention to, so it only makes sense she might be given a block of 5-10 chat messages instead of just 1 every time

[ashen shard]

yeah so this means that now 10 people will be capable of ending a stream, genius

[spring grove]

Offliner sabotage? Sounds fantastic, do it.

[dusky ravine]

That’s how it is for human streamers.

[earnest marsh]

Respect (AI) Women :)

[honest forge]

how about more than 10 minute timeouts
say up till 20hours which garantees that the timeout will run out before the next stream

[outer elbow]

Going by that logic Vedal should never add any features with chat interaction because they can always be abused by bad actors.

But actually, considering your previous takes this is probably exactly what you want.

[ashen shard]

you're putting words in my mouth now, i'm complaining about this exactly because i don't want this to happen

[severe galleon]

i feel like to make timeouts a consequence timeout messages, longer timeouts and no aknowledgement of it on stream would be necessary, right now it is an extravegant way of interacting with the twins without any consequences

[outer elbow]

So it seems like I put the correct words, yeah.

[sand hedge]

also I think Marswatch is stuck imagining worse case scenarios. We've all seen how welcoming the AIs are to unhinged topics before, so I don't think she's as influenceable as they think it is. The only exception would be "END STRIM NURO PLS" messages in chat, which the mods can deal with

[earnest marsh]

could also make it so that is only able to stop stream 30 minutes early or something

[dusky ravine]

Neuro should have more autonomy over the streams, if she decides to end it, she should. As long as the streams last for at least 2 hours and this doesn’t happen so often that it becomes something that’s normal or expected.

[earnest marsh]

like it can't be 10 minutes into a stream she sees a message like "neuro is stinky" and says "we're done now lol" and ends stream

[spring grove]

Just saying that worst case scenarios can happen; Dec 25th 2023 karaoke. Or was it 24th idfr

[earnest marsh]

what happened then? I'm newish and not at the same time, long story.

[dusky ravine]

Vedal said that it would probably only be after the stream has went on for 2 hours.

Which is how long streams normally are.

[spring grove]

jingle bells jingle bells stop clapping, timeout timeout timeout timeout timeout timeout timeout it's beginning to look a lot like christmas i love clapping thanks for the applause nvm it hurts my ears, timeout timeout timeout
You know, the jolly Christmas spirit. It was a lot of fun and I would be eager to see something like that again.

[solar flicker]

This thread reminded me of times when Hiyori would say "goodbye everyone" every 5 minutes. Would be funny if Neuro was able to end stream randomly after 2 hours just because she wished to for whatever reason

[earnest marsh]

okay yeah that's a fair piont

she's got to be serious about using it

[sand hedge]

I respect considering worst case scenarios, but we shouldn't let that fear cloud our decisions too much, otherwise we'd never make any progress. If this leads us to some epic fails, let us laugh over them, learn from the experience, and then fix any issues

[ashen shard]

It's still giving more works to mods who are already have a lot of things to moderate in the chat. It's just giving more power to a small group in the chat like people said before, 10 people is enough to derail a stream.
Neuro is still very influenceable, we've seen this during the last chill stream on wednesday.

[spring grove]

Bringing back the old baseline 2:15, then she gets to decide until 2:35 (current, new baseline) where it's forced to end would be acceptable.
I'm not biased, I just need to get groceries on tuesdays before the store closes and not after.

[iron lotus]

and what about innocent people that they can nuke? i think like 30 min is enough

[spring grove]

By all means, do not alter the timeouts. Perfect. Peaceful. Respectfully, no need for change.

[honest forge]

30 minutes is still not enough people will still use it as a glorified shout out

[spring grove]

Timeout begging has more or less been resolved. Neither of them really shout out much.

[sand hedge]

yeah that's exactly what I mean by being stuck imagining the worst case scenario. How about this instead: we integrate it, try it out, don't tell anyone, see what happens, modify if/when necessary, or rollback if it needs more consideration/work, just like what happened with the timeouts

[iron lotus]

maybe, but you still didnt answered my question

[crisp sinew]

Then I doubt it’d be used, it needs to prompted in most cases

[honest forge]

I didnt answer cause I dont mind people getting caught in the crossfire

even I getting it without deserving it

[ashen shard]

i'm not saying that it's a bad idea in itself, i just think chat can't be trusted. We have tons of proofs that it's the case.

[sand hedge]

I'm sure chat's smart enough to figure out it's a thing once we have one or two examples

but can also be a quick mention in dev stream if necessary

[crisp sinew]

Probably a couple people would, but can’t reslly say.

The idea is a pretty good one, issue is that it can be easily abused and can also be somewhat unpredictable (since people like me have crappy times and can’t really plan for if there would be more)

[iron lotus]

well, if you dont care about other people experience, then i dont see the point in arguing

[spring grove]

It's a good idea for when they're more developed
I had the same thoughts about timeouts because back then they were baby stupid compared to now, and self-assessment: I was right

[honest forge]

lately they dont timeout people without any reason, its not like it was sometime ago

and all in all most of the people shot lately are the ones that derail the experience of everyone else

[iron lotus]

Really? I havent really been following it

[honest forge]

you need to challenge them really hard for them to get trigger happy

[crisp sinew]

Well, they’d time people out for the littlest of things sometimes. But generally, they have great control.

[iron lotus]

well, in that case, i can see your point, but more than 1 hour timeout is too much imo

[crisp sinew]

Vedal could allow neuro to nuke and perhaps ban words (iyk what I mean)

[spring grove]

At least the past week or so I've seen them call out "mean people" without timing out, acting with more deliberation when they time people out
|| They're growing up|| though they do still timeout stuff that would get a child upset. And 600s is "the default."

[ashen shard]

yeah her having the capability to nuke emotes for a limited amount like the mods would be so good.

[ornate frost]

I can already see it vedal being mean in chat and Neuro ending the stream early because of that
Cinema

Like the concept though

[spring grove]

Not an expert, but surely users could be added to an array and just sent. Else they kinda do that already anyway, although one-by-one. Pray and spray kinda deal, though.

[crisp sinew]

Agreed, also allows them to have more punishments other than just timeouts

[ashen shard]

yeah the problem is that they can only do that one by one, muting a large scale of chatters in the same time would actually be way better.

[sand hedge]

how funny would it be if Neuro could do a fake "end stream" announcement, and then 20sec later says "Haha, just kidding" and deletes the goodbye message from the screen

[spring grove]

Wow wouldn't that be interesting (in all seriousness probably would get somewhat old, relatively fast)

[iron lotus]

Isn't it appears with automatic raid? Will they even be able to cancel it?

[sand hedge]

what if she could cancel her own automatic raid if chat can convince her to stay longer

(these last two aren't serious ideas btw, I just think it would be funny like one time or one stream max)

[iron lotus]

Its just that they cant choose who to raid, so i guess they cant cancel either

[spring grove]

As they are now, it's a cool gimmick that possibly could be elaborated on in a different way other than implementing it as a standard.
When they're smarter, letting them have that agency could make them feel more real. Question there is how micro-detail like this you wanna go.

[sand hedge]

tbh I still stand by my original idea the most since it feels the most natural and has the least drastic outcomes, it would only serve its role more as a way to extend the stream if she doesn't want to end it yet, and any negative influence holds little to no power

the more drastic variations could be funny for a bit, but would likely affect the experience negatively for ADHD-sama who can barely manage basic intelligence sometimes

[dusky ravine]

They’ll likely not want the stream to keep going if people are being mean to them anyways. That’s not something Vedal would add, they’ll just use that option due to the context of the situation. So yeah your original idea is good.

Also ADHD has to do with attention, not intelligence.

[sand hedge]

I know that, I just used both as separate descriptors

[spring grove]

It could possibly negatively (or for the sake of argument; positively) affect the viewer experience, not a character that's not alive.
And just how much that can vary ironically depends on "mood" of which they're both still quite volatile.
They're more stable now than 2 years ago, but I imagine early implementation of this as it stands would basically be like the timeouts of subathon 1.

But hey, I'm relatively old here, I know the pains and we would live through temporary (possibly extreme) pain. If Vedal decides to do it, I have faith he'll fix faults as he has pretty much every time.

[dusky ravine]

Hmm maybe it shouldn’t be a normal thing though. I feel like there should be a good reason for Neuro and Evil to end the streams that they could communicate about, maybe once they hit a certain level of negativity they would end the streams a bit earlier (still at least 2 hours), just to maximize the consequences for people acting like crap towards them.

[dusky ravine]

Vedal wants them to be like normal human streamers, not like “characters” on his channel.

That’s always been his intention.

[spring grove]

Yeah, I'm aware. I'm just not sure about implementation of the idea in question; too deterministic.

[sand hedge]

As a veteran since Jan 2023, having been through an era when chill streams were only 2h15 in length, I don't mind the idea of the length of the stream being a bit more undetermined at 2h35 ± 10m. The difference isn't that wide, and I'm sure there's some solution that balances it out naturally

[dusky ravine]

When a human runs a stream, what the streamer wants comes first before the viewer. If a streamer wants to end the stream because they feel like they don’t want to stream, they might end the stream. Vedal wants the girls to be seen and treated as streamers, so it should be the same for them.

[sand hedge]

I really like the idea of giving the twins the ability to even have the lightest amount of control to extend their streams just a little if they so wish. Like Xaendril said, makes them feel more human

[fossil bramble]

im not reading all that but consider that it'd be funny

[spring grove]

Sorry.

[sand hedge]

TLDR: They're doomposting, worried about chat's over-negative-influence.
I think it'd be funny, can be toned down if necessary. I approve 👍

[spring grove]

Just to reiterate; Not against the idea, though I think it would absolutely need implementation that feels human when that's the goal anyway. Outlier ragequits (if desired) be outliers.
I personally feel that it would always go to either extreme with the volatility of their moods and reasonability, as they are currently.

[dusky ravine]

Maybe this could come after an intelligence upgrade?

[spring grove]

Yeah, that's more or less what I'm getting at. Excuse me for just getting slight subathon 1 PTSD, I was gravely injured please understand.
Best case scenario with this is we get more laughs, which is always good, and them feeling more natural. Hopefully they'd be good with it now, but who knows.

[night apex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072697081443131476/1368897673486405773/Screenshot-20250505-031428.gif

[calm stump]

make it so that they can extend chill streams to the original 4 hrs

[fallow echo]

Literally could have Neuro read all of it for him

[sacred sky]

A related idea, not for chill stream, but what about a "make Neuro laugh" stream where she adds time to a timer every time someone in chat makes her laugh and subtracts it when someone angers her. I'd be curious how chat would behave and how long it might go on for. Plus Neuro can just cheat or change the rules if she wants.

[celest swallow]

ask neuro to give you a summary of the thread

[median breach]

"vedal needs to learn to summarize his own threads"

[dusky ravine]

Yeah I could imagine that.

[buoyant plaza]

if we do this we should give the twins more control over timing out and sounds. give the option to get mad and end stream if they get or turn it on and off to be funny like they do with each other.

[eternal flicker]

i thought i responded to this before lol

i think having some limited control over when they could start/end stream is a good idea and would be a fun one-time stream idea

[dusky ravine]

Yeah, I thought about this before, and it was funnily enough inspired by Alex’s malware prank on Vedal that caused VR chat to open randomly. Perhaps there could be some kind of simple auxiliary program that was a part of her system, that could turn the Twitter part of her on with some kind of frequency slider. That way they would be able to tweet in a more lifelike way without human input.

The only issue is replies. Maybe there could be something lightweight (probably not an LLM) and free that could allow the girls to reply based on sentiment analysis?

That could be another thread though. This one is more about Evil having her own Twitter.

[scenic dock]

wrong thread maybe?

though, I have a funny (and probably bad) idea: as an extension to twins extending when happy and not extending when not happy, what if we also gave them the ability to pause the stream (i.e. go back to “starting soon”) when extremely angry? Similar to how human streamers might end stream and come back in a few minutes when very provoked

Would have to be a very high threshold of anger to pause the stream, and this should be much lower priority than improved modding tools (e.g. visible Twitch Chat Eliminator for mass timeouts)

[dusky ravine]

Yeah I said that this would require another thread and that this one is about Evil having her own Twitter account.

Wait

Wait what

Oh fuck this is the wrong thread..

[buoyant plaza]

It would be funny if they could arbitrarily 1984 words and emotes in chat at will. Imagine Evil getting mad about being called cute so she bans the word cute. That has potential to be hilarious. The twins filtering us.

[sacred sky]

Just let them configure the chat bot (nightbot or whatever they currently use) at will. It wouldn't be difficult, but it would be extremely problematic if misused!