Updating the Neuro-Sama Wikipedia page

[undone hedge]

Vedal asked us to update Neuros Wikipedia page because it needs to look presentable for business inquiries.

Any help will be greatly appreciated

[icy edge]

Vedal asks, swarm delivers

also wich one

[north socket]

This one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-sama

[tranquil night]

What is the best way to make it more presentable for businesses?

[undone hedge]

We just need to update it to include all the great things she has done like the hype train some collabs that she has been a part of and also some things she is capable of with her development

[proven cave]

To attract business I think it's very important to put neurosama.com as her official website.
Also if someone with more experience with uploading images on Wikipedia could please update the main picture with Neuro's current model that would be fantastic. The requirements for uploading an image to Wikimedia Commons implies that I couldn't upload an image of copyrighted character but Wikipedia says there are sometimes exceptions and I can upload non-free media but I can't figure out how. I have an image that could be used, I just lack the braincells to comfortably upload it myself.

[tranquil night]

We need permission from vedal to upload the image to the wikipedia page

would the website be neurosama.shop or the website with exploding heatlamp?

[proven cave]

Probably .shop? Exploding heatlamp would be funnier, but I don't think it's accurate. Vedal.ai could work too, though there's not much there

[tranquil night]

should we put both neurosama.shop and vedal.ai?

[proven cave]

I'm leaning towards yes, even though the Twitch about page has more than vedal.ai has it might be updated in the future so it should be there

[tranquil night]

how is this?

[proven cave]

Looks good to me

[tranquil night]

other then the image is there anything else we could do for the wikipedia page/

[proven cave]

I'll add Vedal and Anny as creators in the sidebar, then I want to see of we can find more secondary sources as the top bar demands. and maybe swapping the nomination & awards chart to be by year and not ceremony? The last one might be personal preference, I need to look at a few more large VTubers who have won enoug awards for this to be a thing we can make a pattern out of

Maybe go over her abilities more in the development section as well?

[tranquil night]

the two websites links got deleted

[proven cave]

I guess Wikipedia hates you.

[tranquil night]

they thought it was spam

[raven rock]

isnt everything sold out either way

i dont think you can just put shop links like that

[undone hedge]

True if there isn’t anything on the website why link it

[undone hedge]

Wikipedia page looks good so far but still need to update the image with her current model

[tranquil night]

We can’t until we get Vedal’s permission

[undone hedge]

Ok got it

[native geyser]

I brought this up on NN too but I'm wondering if we can use the Dexerto article on the Hype Train as a source for the v3 model https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/ai-powered-twitch-streamer-smashes-twitch-hype-train-world-record-3019551/

[tranquil night]

Alright. I’m on it!

[verbal sedge]

@undone hedge yo one question can u send the v3 model pic to here as well as i wanna update that to the wiki chinese page as well, thx

[undone hedge]

I will see if I can find it

One second

[tranquil night]

How do we take care of this?

[undone hedge]

May need to do some background editing but here

[undone hedge]

I can send it to the mods and they can send it to him

[tranquil night]

I did it!

[undone hedge]

Ok nice

[verbal sedge]

thx

oh wait how do i upload it hmm

[undone hedge]

Do I still need to somehow get Vedal to send that email I am
Guessing

[tranquil night]

Yes

[undone hedge]

Ok

[verbal sedge]

yea u need or it will be deleted

[tranquil night]

In 30 days

[undone hedge]

Ok just sent a message to the mods with the image

So we will see

[verbal sedge]

updated

used the same file as u guys in the english wiki as well

[fervent cobalt]

vedalstill needs to know what he needs to do

so any advice would be appreciated

[undone hedge]

Hey

[tranquil night]

Yeah?

[fervent cobalt]

Vedal is requesting whatever template email he needs to send

he will consider it (but its not guranteed)

ill also direct him to this thread, so he can work with yall (if he wants, i make no promises)

[undone hedge]

I think it’s just sending the email to the one listed in the image

But it’s probably not that simple

[undone hedge]

Did you know what the message ment by email generator

[tranquil night]

I don’t

[undone hedge]

Well we have a month to work out the image stuff but for now I think the wiki looks great I will ask around to see what other stuff we could add

[languid escarp]

I'm wondering if they will still allow it with only Vedal's permission

Or if they need Anny's

[undone hedge]

I don’t think so i think one is enough but we will see

[fervent cobalt]

i mean, neuro is vedals property, and the model was something he had paid for professionally and now owns, no?

[undone hedge]

True

[languid escarp]

Hm... I'm not too sure honestly, legally speaking

I mean, commissioned artworks are still owned by the artist and not the commissioner, for example.

[fervent cobalt]

contractually neuro isnt a commision. Like bussinesswise shes more.
like, an artist of a logo doesnt own it after a business starts using it

[languid escarp]

"Just because you hire a professional logo designer though does not mean you own the copyright to the design. Whilst the idea itself may be original, unlike the free software, the creator will own all copyright in the design unless they are an employee of your business or the work has been assigned to you in writing."

That's what Google directed me to about that.

[undone hedge]

And heir I think when Vedal is ready all he would need to do is send the image he is using to the email listed in the image I sent you and say like I give permission for this image to be used in the neuro Sama Wikipedia or something

[languid escarp]

I wonder if Anny did assign the model to Vedal then

[fervent cobalt]

it was likely a verbal contract

[languid escarp]

Eh... yeah, that wouldn't work legally, I don't think

Wikipedia's strict

[fervent cobalt]

verbal contracts are 100% legal

[languid escarp]

Ah, okay

They are legally binding, but hard to prove, I see

Okay, makes sense

[fervent cobalt]

yup

[languid escarp]

Issue is that I don't know if Wikipedia would accept that

Hopefully, they just accept it without overanalysing it

[undone hedge]

Well we have a month to sort it out

Before the image gets deleted

[fervent cobalt]

i mean as stated earlier, neuro herself is vedals intelectual property
he owns all aspects of her (except currently her voice, I think)

neuro is a whole product, a sum of several things

[languid escarp]

Yeah, of course, that makes sense

But my concern is if Wikipedia is risk adverse enough to refuse it anyway in case of potential repercussions if that's not true

[fervent cobalt]

anyways @undone hedge what is the email generator

that button

does it do anything we need to knwo about

[undone hedge]

Onyx the person who added the image doesn’t know what it does

[north socket]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Email_templates -> there is an email template in this page to declare copyrighted content

[undone hedge]

So as far as I know heir sent Vedal the necessary stuff to allow permission so now we just wait and see and if it doesn’t work out then we either try a different image or we just go with what was already there for now

[stable violet]

not meant to do this, but i can confirm it has been received and is in the Q

[undone hedge]

Ok thank you

[fervent cobalt]

I mean I’ve sent him nothing. Even if I sent him the template I have none of the links that should be inside of the templates

I’ve literally told you that I’m not going to send them anything until you give me something

It even says this at the literal top of the page that you linked

[undone hedge]

So just to make sure I understand you need a copy of the email template correct

[fervent cobalt]

yes, with any of the pertainiant information about the page itself already filled out or provided

[undone hedge]

Ok got it

[lament thunder]

can we just make up the BS about 'VedalAI', make vedal the CEO of it, employ anny in there, so her models of neuro and evil are therefore property of VedalAI and vedal as the CEO can give permission to use the images of them officially

||i did not cook here||

[undone hedge]

That’s probably not the best idea

[lament thunder]

too complicated for something as simple as sharing images as IP to use on wikipedia

im sure nobody there will actually give a bolt about the legality of vedal giving that permission and not anny

[undone hedge]

I know that question is if we are wrong it could be a awkward situation

[compact lichen]

I would say a screenshot of Neuro for identifying purposes in an encyclopedia article is valid fair-use and would not require Vedals permission.
Wikipedia has a policy regarding non-free content https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content, and I would say a screenshot of Neuro meets that.

The previous screenshot of neuro followed that policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Neurosama_new_model.png

[undone hedge]

Well then I think we are good we will see if the image disappears after 29 days if it does then something went wrong

[compact lichen]

I now see that the v3 image on the article was uploaded to Commons, which do NOT allow fair use images. I'll take a screenshot and upload it locally to enwiki

[fervent cobalt]

so things are probably fine?

[undone hedge]

Yes

[undone hedge]

Thank you

[compact lichen]

For future reference, the release form on Commons deals with releasing copyright for media works or the work in the media.

The words "media work" should be chosen for cases where the "medium" is also the "work", e.g., a photograph of a sunset or a person, an original digital drawing, diagram, or map, a sound recording of a bird, the text of a web page, etc., but not a photograph of another person's copyrighted painting or a sound recording of a person playing a flute or pronouncing a series of words, for which see below.

The words "work depicted in the media" mean, for example, the case of a digital photograph (the medium) of an artistic sculpture (the work) where the sculptor did not take the photograph but is the individual here making the licensing statement.
Which could mean Neuro's actual model, which I assume Vedal does not want to have a Creative Commons license or be in the public domain

Anyways, I uploaded a new image with the correct things

[stable violet]

I still don't get why fair use wasn't used first time round... Anyhow, lacking a lot of details on the dog and evil that could be good for potential business

Also if vedal would like to give us a touch more direction on what he wants expanded on

[fallen geode]

Wikipedia image permissions are tricky, but yeah, the previous image was uploaded under fair use rules. I was going to upload a new one under the same rules but my Wikipedia account was too new to have permissions to do so at the time.

I do think we should use a different picture for the new model though with a neutral background, ideally in a neutral pose and not taken from a livestream screenshot if possible. Neuro's room in the background is just a little busy. Maybe a screenshot from an Anny stream if she's ever shown the v3 model in the editor would be good. I know it's a pain in the ass after going through the hoops to get the current image accepted though.

[proven cave]

I'm not sure if there's a way to even get an image not from a live stream screenshot. I could try and remove the background, or might peruse Anny's vods to see if she ever showed off V3 later today. But then it would still be a live stream screenshot unless she tweeted it or something. And while it might not look like it, smiling is her neutral pose. I waited until Vedal did a restart and that's her pose before she starts moving around. Once she moves she's too bouncy to get a good full body screenshot.

[fallen geode]

V3's debut has an almost neutral background, it's mostly just pure pink but there is some white at the top. The tricky part is just finding a frame where Neuro is looking straight ahead. Seems odd that we don't have a nice full body image of the model on a transparent background -- I assume we did for v2, at least based off the old image that was up

[minor hare]

Just want to point out neuro has 790k subs now.

[last quail]

Isn't the follower count updated monthly anyway?

[stable violet]

We could also, ya know ask for one with a plain background?

[fervent cobalt]

The left number should be accurate

[last quail]

yup, that's why 790k follower statement was inaccurate. I was asking about wikipedia page follower count being updated monthly to specify just in case.

[plush depot]

Oh i didnt realize a project thread got created.

I talked about this earlier when Vedal asked for it to be updated but her current Wikipedia article reads like a fan made it and was just thinking of what cool events they need to add. I don't think a lot of collabs should be mentioned unless they're really notable (like what's the reason the doug geoguessr stream is mentioned over any other collab?). I think only really notable events (osu bot debut, vtuber debut, first collab, subathons and hype train records, LIFE release, twitch follower milestones, etc ) should be mentioned, otherwise it reads like someone trying to advertise or promote Neuro which isn't what Wikipedia is for.

Also the updates to the external links got rolled back

referencing this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links#Minimize_the_number_of_links

but i think we should treat her wiki page like any other streamers where the first bit is a general explanation and then the in detail history section only mentions notable events

[nova lava]

I tend to do it monthly if the change is big enough since the last update, but other people are free to update it whenever

also totally missed this project getting made

[lament thunder]

John Wikipedia joined in

[nova lava]

This is one of the reasons Vedal not making his own social media posts is making references difficult, and as to why LIFE has 0 references under Neuro's discography. We can't use self-published 3rd parties as verfiable sources, so the people that helped produce her song can't be cited; it has to come from Vedal himself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources

[prime vessel]

She looks WAY too emotionless in this image

[prime vessel]

Please can we use another image? This one wouldn’t look good at all, there’s one from a dexerto article that’s much better that she could use. She just looks lifeless in this.

[undone hedge]

Well post the image and someone will update it

And it’s about the same as the last one

[prime vessel]

Here, found it.

It's not the best but it's definitely better than the other one.

The other one lacks any emotion whatsoever.

[undone hedge]

No offense but I get similar vibes with this one

[prime vessel]

The other is one is just a static rigid pose without any animation, this at least shows some emotion.

I could get a better image but it would have to be approved by Vedal.

[nova lava]

I'm also against this specific image, its too goofy. but I do agree the current one is lacking... something. i won't say its emotionless tho

[prime vessel]

If this could be approved by Vedal it would be perfect.

[undone hedge]

We have a may to change it without vedals approval

Someone here was able to do it

[prime vessel]

It's 100% emotionless. It's literally what she looks like when she has no animation, in the middle of her being reset. It's static and lifeless.

I'll have to get an approval from Vedal next time he's active.

[undone hedge]

Hey sorry to disturb you but we have a better picture to use for Neuros Wikipedia would you mind changing it when you have the time

[prime vessel]

[nova lava]

I got it this time

[undone hedge]

Ok thank you

[nova lava]

I've also DM'd Heir the wikicommons copyright email for Vedal should we need it

Her image has been updated

[undone hedge]

Ok the guy I pinged had a way to use the image without that permission

But good that it’s changed now

[nova lava]

idk how the first guy did it either, I only picked the wiki up after her page was first made

[prime vessel]

Permission shouldn't be too hard to get.

Just got to catch him at the right time.

[nova lava]

Vedal just needs to send an email to [e-mail]. I've already pre-gen'd the email for him

again should we need it, idk right now as we already have examples of not needing to do this step

[prime vessel]

Would they not accept a discord message?

[undone hedge]

No

Unfortunately

[prime vessel]

Hmm.

[undone hedge]

We already tried that

[nova lava]

no

[prime vessel]

Ah alright.

[nova lava]

wikimedia has strict copyright rules. the email is already written, Vedal just needs to send it if necessary

[prime vessel]

Okay and this image will be used?

[prime vessel]

This one I mean. Sorry, hard to reply to multiple posts.

[undone hedge]

Yes

[nova lava]

yeah no thats not gonna fly. none of us are the owners of Neuro's likeness, and yeah the image has been used

[prime vessel]

Alright, perfect. I think that's a good image for her honestly.

[prime vessel]

That's why Vedal will be sending the email.

[nova lava]

well we have it on deck should we need it

[prime vessel]

Wait you're the same person who posted this

I'm confused what you're referring to.

Anyways it seems everything is good lol.

Vedal just needs to do his part.

[proven cave]

I believe the way this was done last time was that it was uploaded as non-free content on Wikipedia directly, and not posted through Wikimedia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:File_upload_wizard

[compact lichen]

Ill just forward my comment last time

And regarding Commons: "For future reference, the release form on Commons deals with releasing copyright for media works or the work in the media.

The words "media work" should be chosen for cases where the "medium" is also the "work", e.g., a photograph of a sunset or a person, an original digital drawing, diagram, or map, a sound recording of a bird, the text of a web page, etc., but not a photograph of another person's copyrighted painting or a sound recording of a person playing a flute or pronouncing a series of words, for which see below.
The words "work depicted in the media" mean, for example, the case of a digital photograph (the medium) of an artistic sculpture (the work) where the sculptor did not take the photograph but is the individual here making the licensing statement.
Which could mean Neuro's actual model, which I assume Vedal does not want to have a Creative Commons license or be in the public domain"

[nova lava]

hmm we could just go with that then

[compact lichen]

In that email it says "the work in the media" which is NEURO

NOT the image

he would making neuros model free for anyone to use

if the wiki needed permission from every copyright owner to use an image of them, their logos, etc. there would be severely less images

[nova lava]

idk if it means that, the wording is unclear tbh

[compact lichen]

The words "work depicted in the media" mean, for example, the case of a digital photograph (the medium) of an artistic sculpture (the work) where the sculptor did not take the photograph but is the individual here making the licensing statement.
The "work": the art made by Anny i.e the model of neuro
The "media/medium": the image itself.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Email_templates#Email_message_template_for_release_of_rights_to_a_file

anyway I would prefer Vedal not do something he can't take back, which he won't be able to do if he sends that email

[nova lava]

ok then I will upload the new image directly, so we won't have to go through wikimedia

[compact lichen]

you won't have to upload an new image, just upload a new version of the existing file

@fervent cobalt Vedal does not need to send anything (and he probably shouldn't)

[fervent cobalt]

ill let him know

i could probably ping him
eh ill do it in the staff channel

done hes aware

and with that my job here is done

https://tenor.com/view/my-job-here-is-done-bye-done-gif-14879937

[compact lichen]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Neuro-samaV3.png was uploaded to Commons, you should edit the image and put {{speedydelete|G7}} at the top so it can be removed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Neuro-sama_V3.png at this one, you can press "upload a new version of this file" to update it with the new one

@nova lava ah you need to use {{SD|G7}} to get the CSD code to show up, my bad

[nova lava]

its been done, thanks 👍

[compact lichen]

you should replace the source parameter on the local file to wherever you got the updated image from, so its correct

[nova lava]

well i don't know where its from exactly, hang on. @prime vessel which stream did you get that image from

[prime vessel]

Oh shit I'll check.

Couldn't find it, but here's an image from 4/29/2025.

I could try to find a higher res image if you need.

This might be higher quality idk
I can find more images though.

[nova lava]

uh ok, I'll just grab the just chatting stream the 29th. I'll just assume thats when you took it.

[prime vessel]

Yeah

Hold on I got it

[nova lava]

i doubt anyone is going to frame by frame the VOD looking for the exact pose

[prime vessel]

Wait nvm

[prime vessel]

Yeah true

Yeah it was this stream.

[prime vessel]

Maybe not show the wikipedia people this one though because they might try and track me down to ask more questions about the Neuro picture and they might be able to tell who I am based on the number of bits.

[nova lava]

was it ever stated what exactly Vedal wanted updated??

[undone hedge]

No

So next time I see him

I will ask him to look it over and give suggestions on this thread

initially some stuff was outdated

Which was changed

[nova lava]

👍 I've been super busy recently so glad more people are contributing either way

[upper wasp]

Can someone revert back to the previous revision?