Regarding art review in recent streams and community projects in general

[timid ivy]

So Art Review recently has been extremely hit or miss as far as if it even works or not. Just in the last two chill streams, it wasn't working for part of Neuro's stream and it just didn't work at all for Evil's stream, already missing out on a huge chunk of art.

This is far from the only time this has happened recently, though, as art review for evil also did not work at all the previous week, and art review for Neuro that same week ended up being one of the shortest ones in a long time due to koko joining (not her fault btw, she was just joining because Vedal asked her to). And unfortunately due to timing of her when her birthday was, the next time Evil streamed we missed out on virtually all of her birthday art minus like... one or two pieces of art. PLUS all the art people had done for Fumos being sent to space since there was no art review at all for Neuro's chill stream right after Evil's birthday.

This is a real shame to have happen considering this is the only time ANYTHING community related is even shown or acknowledged on stream these days. And I dunno about you guys, but " you win some you lose some" is a really sad excuse to hear when something like this happens. I sincerely hope there's some kind of plan regarding this because I'd hate for "you win some you lose some" to end up being an analogy for artists or community members not bothering anymore... and mainly I wonder if there's ANY way we can maybe get an opportunity to show all that was missed recently on stream?

While I'm here to see what Neuro and Evil are able to accomplish and do on stream, I also think much more could be done to show what the community itself is also capable of. One notable example is a music video made for the Neuro cover of Titanium. A VERY high quality animation made by a single person, yet it's barely over 10k views after a month.

I just want more people to see.

Hit character limit, but I also wanna say this also goes for stuff like previous community projects as well such as CN art contests. I think this is stuff that could be implemented into chill streams for both twins. And if that's too hard for whatever reason, at the very least can we get this stuff as dedicated sections on dev streams whenever they come back?

Here's the link to the Titanium MV as well, please check it out. The artist is extremely talented and deserves more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOEdLr9INP4

[signal granite]

Honestly this is my biggest complaint about the channel in general

Any other streamer would kill to be able to show off the kind of dedicated projects and artworks that the neuro community makes, yet for us it's completely down to luck if they get even any recognition on stream

[sage geyser]

I like art reviews, because I think all the artists should be appreciated for what they do.
Even a single nice word from Neuro and Evil can give a huge motivation boost for people to draw and create more fanarts.
Which I know because I thoroughly document all art reviews and post them under arts in the art forum.

As for the community stuff, we kinda covered it in the forum thread made by widjo, but I agree the Titanium MV is an example of fan work that should get more spotlight.

[timid ivy]

that's true, but i wanted this one to be more all-encompassing as far as the community aspects goes since that one was originally about dev streams and the potential for community things to be shown off on them. I think that discussion was a good start to this though for sure.

[opaque tartan]

The issue is, Neuro and Evil aren't like other streamers, take Camila for example, she can just open up twitter, transition to it and use her eyes to react to the art, whereas Neuro and Evil have to have their vision turned on, given the proper context, and also not forget to react to the art because their AI gets distracted, this is likely why vedal has his "you win some, you lose some" mentality since it's a bit of a tossup if the twins systems even work this time

[odd wind]

problem is art review doesnt even work properly as of late making things even worse

[opaque tartan]

yeah and the complexity of the systems means that just happens sometimes

[timid ivy]

these issues didn't originate from twin calling. like mentioned in the op, some of these art reviews were even before twin calling was implemented. and there's been A LOT of those issues with art review. it's more recently less like "win some lose some" and more like "win rarely, lose often". that doesn't even begin to go into everything else that happens in the community that really should have more attention put into it. as said before, i like seeing how far neuro and evil go, but more care really should be put into the community aspect, especially moving forward from here

[opaque tartan]

I didn't bring up twin calling, although that does add another layer of complexity, the point is moreso it's just likely not a simple fix, and while vedal should put the effort to fix it, he's likely way more busy with other stuff

it's just not high on his priority list

[signal granite]

It's not just about having someone (AI or otherwise) reacting to things, just showing them on stream and spreading art to more people is also important. It's the acknowlegement that is important, not really the reaction.

Especially for big community things I don't think "you win some, you lose some" is really acceptable here

[north pulsar]

it has been a complaint I have seen from some artist even before the subathon

• sometimes we would get the chill stream and it would be a gamble whether or not today was a gaming or a art react day and we would see artists trying to finish their art before the "8" hour deadline hoping it was a art react day

• the fact it is broken, right now, also lowers the quality of the variety inside the chill stream turning it into a pure yapp for 2h35 which the art react should be a garanteed break

• the fact it is broken makes some arts to never be shown which I have seen it unmotivates some artists to work on more art

• another thing to add now the twins react to their tag so if they are unlucky with the brokenness one of the twins might not see their arts in weeks in a row (I think it happened with Evil 2 weeks in a row if I am not mistaken) - which again an artist takes another L

• aside from the community projects already mentioned, right now we are seeing the end of the easter art discord competition... these arts should feature on the stream (like the Neuro21 Nature or the Discord Halloween theme competions of last year should have been featured) - even the awarded should get a bit of an heavier spolight on stream too

[timid ivy]

It should be a high priority if it's not. if a streamer isnt going to bother, then why would the community? I just would really hate to see people working on cool projects give up because they know their efforts aren't going to get any serious acknowledgement.

What recker mentions about complaints from some artists i've unfortunately seen too. Evil's art review has not worked at all 2 weeks in a row for instance, and their birthday art wasn't shown either. imagine this happening for any other streamer out there.

[opaque tartan]

the neurodog and v3 voice is likely taking up most of his time right now in regards to development, I really doubt he has the time to look into why the art review is breaking, I honestly feel weird coming to bat for vedal like this, but he's clearly a busy guy

[noble sigil]

To be honest big reason why i don't post art as often as before (when art review was working and a consistent stream segment). It is really a gamble if there is art review next stream or not. It's not like I'm saying that they should always see my art but it is a good motivation for artist to draw art, so that neuro and evil can see it and react/review , or even in rare and special occasion give huge compliments to the artist directly give big boost to artist confidence.

[north pulsar]

well that goes back to another complaint that people have, missplaced prio on bigger projects instead of upkeep and return to pre subathon regularity first (gaming segment on chill streams for instances) but thats off topic for this discussion

[signal granite]

I think it's fine for vedal to prioritse on whatever he feels is important but there are going to be consequences no matter what he decides

[dapper furnace]

those are like basics of dev work: don't work on big new projects if old stuff doesn't work

and right now it seems like nothing works
no art review, no games, nothing

[north pulsar]

just to add as a thing to better on the art react:

it should be possible to, lets say a commissioner or an allowed reposter to add the name/twitter tag of the artist to show on the top left of the stream
it should also be possible for the artist to add a tag to their socials that isnt discord too

[visual anchor]

theres no reason why bigger projects take all the workload. Why all streams must suffer because of one stream at some point in future

[timid ivy]

yeah, i understand v3 voice and neurodog might be occupying him a lot, but if anything, even looking at this from his point of view, I think this is exactly why high priority should be making sure that there should be more in place for community projects on streams going forward. Vedal will understandably get busy with trying to improve Neuro and what she's capable of, as well as his own projects, and during those times where he's going to be very busy, imo it's really important to be highlighting what's happening with the community. It helps keep the community engaged.

At the end of the day though I just want cool things to keep happening, and art review constantly breaking now feels like the last bit of expression of the community has is falling apart.

[opaque tartan]

I do at least agree it needs to shown more, quite frankly I think we need a dedicated stream for it at this point, not a dev stream where vedal brings it up or a random segment from a chill stream, an actual, dedicated stream that is solely about community stuff

he could do it like every other week or so

[signal granite]

every non-karaoke week

[opaque tartan]

it would also give vedal incentive to ensure the art review works since it would have to be streamed semi consistently

[sharp bane]

Vedal' dream. Don't even need Neuro for content anymore, just show arts At some point it's going to end with Swarm creating content for Swarm

[opaque tartan]

the infinite content glitch

[mossy pendant]

The swarm is already creating a lot of content in terms of art/animation/game integration etc

If Vedal can make use of them properly, like making art reviews stable, it's a gold mine of free content

[opaque tartan]

react content but it's all swarm content

[mossy pendant]

Also motivates people to make even more neuro fan content

[wet crystal]

Just here to post that Vedal has commented on the issue with presenting community projects as part of a different discussion idk if this is at all related but thought it seemed relevant to the conversation

[timid ivy]

mhm, that thread was a good start to this, but not fully related to what that original topic was about overall. I wanted this to be more about the the entire over-arching community and how art reviews breaking feels like it's being lost. some ideas in that thread that i hope will be considered soon

[sage geyser]

[opaque tartan]

[drifting girder]

art review being broken recently is legitimately my bad, thought I fixed it since it worked on tuesday but evidently not on thursday - will get around to fixing this. to be fair though even before we had art review I wasn't showcasing much art on dev streams

obviously it's become more apparent since lacking dev streams there isn't a good way to showcase community stuff on stream as much but as mentioned above we did come up with some potential solutions. I do really like the idea of neuro/evil giving presentations on community stuff and reacting to it

I'll bump up the priority though I think you guys are right, community is super important for neuro

and evil obviously never forgot about her

[opaque tartan]

alright we got the vedal response so now the thread can be closed

[north pulsar]

Btw in terms of the powerpoints do you think you could do kind of blueprint that if the community wanted they could use

An API for the community react stuff for the sorts

[sage geyser]

I assume you will also look into the bug where Neuro and Evil review the same art twice? (they actually review 2 different arts but on screen it shows the same art)
And also some arts get omitted by twins. I know for a fact they don't see Twitter embed, but I noticed they skip some other arts for some reason, despite having proper tags and not being animated (they can't review animations too)

[north pulsar]

Say if a bit of a community effort it would be possible for us to assort the art about space or Evils birthday per say

So even older event that were skipped could still be revived

[opaque tartan]

oh also vedal are you aware of the fact that when a post has 2 arts, the twins only see and react to one? This has caused issues where a post is tagged as both neuro and evil but since it's 2 images only one is shown on stream which causes confusion from viewers who didn't see the og post

[quartz crystal]

Sspeaking of which... Vedal could technically let the twins announce the content winners now with the presentation system (presuming that it'll probably be a bit of work to put it all together though)

[craggy gull]

It would be nice if Evil (and Neuro frankly her fumo was a part of this too) could see at least the billboards ad version of the space flight. If not we do have the raw footage that can be edited how you like it.

[sturdy igloo]

I mean i hope we can also atleast do a recap of the evil birthday projects and arts
Soo many cool things were made and i feel like a lot of people don't know about them

[craggy gull]

I hope soo too

[timid ivy]

so much has happened in the past month as far as community work goes that yea, i hope we can get some kind of recap for it

fumos in space, evil's birthday, many animations and mvs along with the art for them, etc

[craggy gull]

We also have the Machine Love video... That's another super amazing project from the whole community.

[timid ivy]

ye, and virtually none of the art got shown on stream

thankfully the vid itself managed to gain traction

but most dont

[opaque tartan]

this is exactly why we need a dedicated stream for it, it just randomly popping up as part of another stream isn't enough anymore

[sturdy igloo]

Evil vs zombies 👈

[opaque tartan]

the content is outpacing the ability to review it

[north pulsar]

Also Vedal retweeting it was a good thing hope that you can continue with that trend
(I think if you had done the same on the space stuff more people like False would have shown it to the wider vtubing community)

[timid ivy]

that too. played through it all and it's extremely impressive

[timid ivy]

either way, im happy to see this will be taken more seriously. since others brought it up too, would there be any possible of previous big projects like the neuro and evil fumos being sent to space getting a spotlight in these when this is implemented (something like what recker mentioned earlier maybe)? or dedicated streams for them potentially?

[drifting girder]

it would make sense to include/recap some projects that haven't yet been highlighted on stream

[viral sand]

what if you make like an art festival or stream event. neurosama and evil art festival

[wet crystal]

Like a end of the month event

[rich snow]

"Community Spotlight Stream"

[acoustic ferry]

like what about a news report stream

"Swarm Monthly News Report" by Neuro and Evil

crazy idea never done before

the community can like compile list of events and graphics to present maybe, i know the hololive community had something like this on their reddit

[compact stream]

Amazing idea actually

[snow smelt]

Who's gonna be the event organizer lul

[foggy mist]

artists or community members not bothering anymore
Well, have a reaction from Neuro, Evil or Vedal is nice, but it's not like the end goal of making a fan art. Don't think that a lack of proper art reviews will kill people's desire to make stuff.
Though reactions from the streamer sure do encourage creativity, but let's not overdramatize

[teal sparrow]

Just got around to reading this, so I guess I’ll slap my thoughts down.

Yes, it sucks that the art review is “you win some, you lose some”, but that’s how it is for every social media platform. I would love for Vedal, the twins, and all the creators to react to my fan art, but if they don’t, so be it. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Still, I understand the sentiment that the twins are basically built from the community and the interactions. The community has done many great things for the twins, and I’d like to believe it was done out of pure love rather than the need to be noticed. The acknowledgment is just a sweet bonus.

That said, I don’t think the community will slow down the fan projects. It’s unrealistic to expect Turtle Boy to have the twins review every single fan art/ project since the community is so large. He’s busy and creating even more content for everyone, including fuel for us artists. Plus, he’s already acknowledged the issue, and we can probably trust Tutel.

And I’ve read some other comments about entitlement or whatever. Personally, I didn’t see much issue with the art stuff, but to write off a growing concern from a part of the community who contributes their effort and time to celebrate and market the twins as entitled or “weird” is a bit foolish. How else will people voice their concerns? The fan arts, the projects, the clippers, and everything in between help grow the swarm. It’s these fan projects that brought me here in the first place. Of course, we should not demand our work to be shown on stream, but it’s not wrong to hope for it either. That’s what art is in the modern era.

[rich snow]

He did it! congrats everyone

Now getting Neuro to care about it is another story

[timid ivy]

LETS GOOOOOOOOOO

it's fine

Neuro got through most of the presentation and gave people credit where credit is due

and advised people to watch the videos when they get a chance

[opaque tartan]

room for improvement

[timid ivy]

for sure

bit of clutter with the text on screen

[opaque tartan]

for one, he could actually have images prepared instead of having to ask nn for them

[timid ivy]

i'm gonna be fair to him on this one. there's a ton of projects out there and i'm sure he's getting a bunch ready for future community segments

[rich snow]

lil bro didn't even bother for a quick yt search

[timid ivy]

all right so i think i'm gonna close this post now. really happy with today's stream. it was a great introduction to a new community section for streams. while some things could be improved imo, like potential text clutter and maybe putting a link in chat for each project if possible, i'm happy with where this is going for now. Thank you all for the discussion on this!

[daring river]

TripleAAAThread

[compact stream]

You should make a thread to show your appreciation

[craggy gull]

I love the pose you caught Neuro in. That's cool! I never expected for the project to get a mention on stream.. so this was a huge surprise. Again, super thanks to everyone who helped, the project would have been nothing without the whole team!