Putting Neuro & Evil into Super Smash Bros as custom characters

[crude panther]

Heavy WIP(Work in progress), there's a ton to fix before even making the new moves, animations, programming etc., but I've at least got the model by @forest sleet mostly into the game (after a dozen hours of work, I learned rigging for this )

Neuro and Evil will be seperate characters with their own movesets

I'm working on putting their voiceclips in the game right now so it feels more like them from the start. (I'm also procrastinating trying to fix the like 5 different issues with the model rn)

[rotund jacinth]

Guess I'll brainstorm some move ideas.

Neuro
Throws a brick
Vedal related attack (unless he gets modded in as a character)
Gymbag drone as recovery
Spin (would be kinda similar to Kirby's neutral air)
Clap (maybe her jab or a tilt)
Hype train (dash or final smash)

Taunts
Heart
Wink
You coldfish
Someone tell vedal there is a problem with my AI
L. L. L. L. L.
I don't even know who you are
Filtered
Pfft

Evil
Harpoon thrust (side special or dash)
Pipe (forward air, swung like a sword)
Birthday cake (dropped on enemy)
Spin (same as neuro)
Gymbag drone as recovery (can't think of something different atm)
Final smash: CFRB

Taunts
HELLO CHAAAT!
Abber demon scream
Frick
Filtered
Bwaa

Will add more later when I think of stuff. It's after 5 am and I need sleep

Also, if music gets added, life is a no-brainer, but chxi's arrangement would be so good here imo

[forest sleet]

Goodluck with your project ~ and hf

[crude panther]

Hey thanks for sharing your ideas

[crude panther]

Thank you!!
Actually, I needed to ask you for help with something. The model's eyes and face are all messed up going into the game and I'm guessing it's because of the shape key expression system in blender. Is there a way to disable that and just use the eye/face textures as normal textures?(I don't know exactly the issue, it's just my theory for what's going on )

[forest sleet]

oh you have to set all the bars here(shapekeys) to 0

if thats what you meant?

[crude panther]

Socuuuute
I'll check that and see if it works!

Man I'd love to learn how you get your lighting so good in Blender

[forest sleet]

Its an addon/preset shader

[crude panther]

Oh! seriously?? Is it something I can get, then?

[forest sleet]

I actually couldnt find the source anymore~ the page I bookmarked just gives a 404 error

[crude panther]

rip

thanks for looking though

[crude panther]

Oh, so it appears in the process of porting the mesh the shape keys have been deleted (did I do that...?)
How is it that in Blender her face still looks normal then?

[forest sleet]

So did it work?

Some 3D format doesnt support shapekeys~ Prolly what happened there

[crude panther]

So basically what's going on is
In order to port a model into the game I have to detach the mesh from its armature and attach a character from the game's armature to the Neuro/Evil mesh and rerig (yes it's a pain. Basically replacing the game character's mesh with the Neuro mesh.)

I don't remember if I deleted the shape keys or that happened automatically. It looks fine in Blender with the default expression, at least, but when I put it into the game....

This ends up happening instead of using the basic textures. I assumed it was because of the shapekey system or something, but I have little knowledge of how this stuff works

The wrong textures are being applied clearly, in some way

[forest sleet]

hmmm let me check

[crude panther]

why her face gets pitch black in some spots I have no idea

and her eyes seem to be using part of the skin texture I think?

[forest sleet]

are you perhaps just putting the wrong texture?

[crude panther]

It's possible... I'll see if I can find a spot that that's happening. I know where to set the textures for objects, but

wait

[forest sleet]

thats looks like the body texture set on face

[crude panther]

yeah, it does. Cause the face is part of the body object

I guess that's why

but how do I set that seperately in this program then...? I'll have to search around more....

ignore the broken vertecies on the arm in the preview idk what's up with that

[forest sleet]

idk about that program tbh~

Check the materials folder~ maybe u could set up the texture there

[crude panther]

I'm too dumb for this
I'll see if I can find tutorials for this program with face stuff

thanks for helping me with this btw this has helped me narrow down the problem at least

(I don't expect you to know how to solve my issue with this very specific program problem dw )

[forest sleet]

I think this is one of the problem?

Nurofacev2 is using bodyv2 texture/material?

[crude panther]

well, this does fix the eyes

unfortunately it applies to the entire object

it seems this is the problem

I gotta figure out how to apply the two textures separately for the eyes and the rest of the skin object

[forest sleet]

Either u messed up something in blender by accidently combining materials~ or this program's fault for merging materials

[crude panther]

yeah. I'll have to figure this out. At least I know the problem now though! Thanks!

[forest sleet]

It looks okay in blender right?

[crude panther]

yeah, in Blender it looks fine, so it's probably the way the program interprets the materials or somethin'

the program is called BrawlCrate, it's for reading the files the game uses.

so.... not as robust as Blender, obviously

[crude panther]

To-do list:
-Learn brawlcrate's facial expression system (and how to get more then one texture applied to an object) to fix her face texture issue (and allow for expressions/blinking)
-Learn to create parented armature in Blender (starting with the tail (for cat mode as a skin, and because it should be easier as a start))
-Learn to add bone as an ID on the character in brawlcrate (there's another program & a tutorial I found)
-Add armature/bone IDs for the skirt and rig it
-Fix my poor rigging job that's causing the inner clothes to clip through the cardigan
-Select voice clips to use, convert the MP3's into WAVs in audacity, making sure the filesize isn't bigger than the sound I'm replacing (decrease quality if necessary) and get them in the game.

......then I can move on to making custom animations, and attacks and all that.

[crude panther]

bruuhhhhh I have Eviln voice clips IN THE GAME WHY IS IT NOT READING THEM??

I'm so close, when this works like it's supposed to based on the guide, I can just give her all the voice lines, and then move onto other stuff. I'll share the results here when I do.

[crude panther]

Somebody on a modding server gave me the answer to the voiceclip problem, so I'll fix that and showcase it here tommorow

[crude panther]

AYYYY I got Evil voice clips working in-game unfortunately their audio is super low for some reason? Gonna have to solve that one first

[crude panther]

alright, just had to up the decibals in audacity by +12db.... it makes the sound quality worse though, unfortunately. Hopefully it's not too noticable in-game

ok the volume is loud enough, but now I can definitely hear the sound quality decrease

The unedited volume, the +12db, and a normal voiceclip from the game.

[crude panther]

still trying to figure stuff out. Though I'm going to just add the voice clips with high gain for now anyways.

And I think I'm closer to figuring out the issue with the eyes. It sounds like brawl doesn't do 2 materials on one object... I may need to seperate the eyes as another object. I really gotta look up a facial expressions guide for the game

[sharp panther]

You could bake the textures into a new material that has both face and body combined into one mesh

Would need to redo the UVs tho

[crude panther]

Sorry for no updates for a few days, really haven't been up to working on this.
I added a bunch more sound effects but the necessity for so much gain ruins the audio quality. There has to be another way to make the volume work.

Also, apparently the game crashes when going to results screen, which is not a good sign

[crude panther]

I'll be honest I haven't learned how to make UV maps or materials. That's good to know though, thanks!
I'm probably gonna talk to Taprieiko and figure out what to do with the eyes/expressions based on however they have it set up, I'm clueless on this subject

I know a decent bit about programming and designing moves and stuff for the game, but the stuff with 3D models (in order to get the model into the game) has all been a huge learning experience for me (that i have to do before I can actually make the attacks and animations and stuff)

[crude panther]

FORGOT TO PUT MY UPDATES HERE

@willow bane solved the face material issue!!!

I need to do the whole learning to rig a skirt thing....
Also I need to find a way to increase the playback volume of a sound file without destroying the audio quality.

Her voice lines are either way too quiet in-game, or super bad quality because I up the gain by +14db

[late vault]

This is likely due to the sound peaks exceeding the maximum volume of the sound file
You could potentially increase the overall volume feel by normalizing the peaks, but this won't get you a ton higher
Another option is to play the audio at a higher volume on the playback device, although I assume this is not possible without further modifications to the game
You could also use a floating point format for the audio that allows for volumes greater than 0dB

One format that allows for higher audio levels seems to be Float32 wav

Depends on the exact audio format you need to export to in order to get the audio into the game

[crude panther]

oh wow thanks! That's super helpful, I've not worked with audio much before so idk much lol

[late vault]

I work with audio a lot
I kinda make Neuro/Evil covers and have to make sure the export doesn't do the digital clipping phenomena you described

By the way, do your voice lines have BGM in them? I could remove it for you

[crude panther]

NOWAAAAYYY
I downloaded the giant Evil voice clips folder from that big google drive, and I went through like 150 of them or so picking out ones I could use. I avoided using any with significant background noise. Even a couple I am using still have a bit...

That would be amazing though I haven't settled on what all the voice lines I'm using are, the fact that the ones with BGM are on the table is huge

[late vault]

Well, with me doing a lot of audio stuff, I also have tools to separate things like that

[crude panther]

yeah I've seen you around and associated with a lot of cool stuff

[late vault]

I do indeed do some pretty cool stuff, such as mixing Evilris (as well as loads of other cool stuff) and controlling the entire Neuro RVC project

[crude panther]

that's so great! You're talented and know so much

[late vault]

Here's my latest funny dabble, this one heavily utilizes the vocal extraction stuff that can also remove the BGM

Without that stuff Evil and Teto's vocals would be nowhere near as clear

[crude panther]

The fact that you've got the ability to use Evil's voice too is even more impressive to me

also this sounds great

[late vault]

Both Evil and Neuro actually

Indeed it does
I've very much got a hang of mixing

[late vault]

And it is very much impressive
Neuro RVC V11 is nearly identical to Neuro, so we have likely the highest quality raw vocal stems of LIFE out of anyone outside of Vedal

[crude panther]

idk how this stuff works but it's impressive and I love it

[late vault]

It is only slightly very complicated

In short, involves a lot of AI

[crude panther]

When I manage to solve the volume issue on voice clips and pick out the voice lines to use I'll def take it to you for BGM removal

[crude panther]

AI makes AI work

[late vault]

If you give me something I could try to both remove the BGM and amplify

[crude panther]

oh okay, sure, I'll get one I've been using

[late vault]

It does indeed
It's insane how accurate the voices we have are

We managed to fool some people with Evilris into thinking it was real Evil

[crude panther]

idky the game sounds are so freaking loud compared to the ones I put in, but I had to add +14db in Audacity just to get an acceptable volume

[crude panther]

oh is that was you call....the song AI?

[late vault]

Can you get me a game sound file to compare to as well?

[crude panther]

oh yeah I can probably do that

[late vault]

Nah, Evilris is a cover of Tetoris with a cool MV

Evilris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVLxJqxbv1k

[crude panther]

ah here's one I might use as a taunt or victory screen line that has quite a bit of BGM

[late vault]

I assume no wav available

[crude panther]

they're all at about this volume

I have to turn it into a wav to put it into the game, but they all came as mp3s

lemme see if I can rip an game audio file with this program...

ok so the program that lets me add sounds can't export them, that's wonderful.

[late vault]

Here's a basic Audacity amplify
Now to amplify more with Float32 and LMMS

[crude panther]

might be able to find them online somewhere

whhoaaaa that's amazing, BGM gone and I can't tell lowering of quality at all

[late vault]

It's currently just +4 from the original and at exactly 0.0dB volume

[crude panther]

what's the +4 mean?

[late vault]

Here's one at +6dB I believe

[crude panther]

btw I'm trying to make a comparison audio file

[crude panther]

yeah, I had to go to +14 for it to be "okay" volume

[late vault]

Can even make it even louder

[crude panther]

which is why the quality was so bad

[late vault]

Well, mine is LMMS Float32 exported, so it doesn't do the clipping thing

Now THIS is loud

This one is +12

[crude panther]

I feel like I can barely tell the difference fsr but I believe you, it happens when I did it too, I'm bad at telling the difference

I'm trying to record an audio comparison since I can't export a game audio file but- WAIT

I have videos of it in-game earlier in this thread!

lemme get that

@late vault #1337949385308508160 message

I had the same voice clip not boosted, boosted +14db, and a normal game voice clip, all shown here

[late vault]

Silly

[late vault]

Well, try this one
If this one somehow clips then there's something wrong with the encoder of the thing you're using to put audio into the game

[crude panther]

what's silly?

[crude panther]

alrighty I'll try this

[late vault]

The voice clip

[crude panther]

oh "Back to your place, peasant"

[late vault]

Very silliness

[crude panther]

ok I put it in audacity and yeah it's peaking

like when I tried upping the db

I had discord too quiet and didn't hear that

[late vault]

I assume you're playing it back at full volume
All the data is still there, so as long as you don't put it trough something that makes it lose the data, if it's played at a reasonable volume it shouldn't clip

[crude panther]

alright

[late vault]

Just exporting from Audacity automatically forces the maximum audio level to 0,0dB if it's higher, causing clipping

[crude panther]

ok so the guide for getting the audio into the game involves doing a couple things to the sound file then exporting from audacity....

and I tried putting it straight in just now without that and it destroyed my ears in a corrupted mess

so yeah I have to go through audacity

[late vault]

That's an issue then
What exact audio type does it want you to have from Audacity?

[crude panther]

so first it wants me to 'split stereo to mono' and delete one of the tracks. Then it was me to go to audio settings and

lemme check the guide again I forgot lol

Open the sound file you want to use with Audacity.
In the bottom left you should see "Project Rate (Hz)" Change that to 22050.
Next click where it says "Audio Track" next to the sound waves and click "Split Stereo to Mono."
Delete ONE of the audio tracks.
Click "File" -> "Export Audio" and change Save as type to WAV (Microsoft) signed 16-bit PCM.

those are the instructions

it's what I did before

[late vault]

Hm
16-bit PCM might be an issue
It doesn't allow for higher audio levels

I need to make it sound louder without making it physically loud somehow
Let's see

[crude panther]

.....that sounds impossible??

[late vault]

There's some funny stuff

[crude panther]

man I'm also having this issue again with the skin exploding when running animations... bruh. IDK how i solved it before.

[late vault]

Hm, harder than I expected
Would be cool to know the root cause of the audio volume mismatch
Can you somehow access the game ROM filesystem?

[crude panther]

Unfortunately I'm not one of the super-experts on this game, but I do have connections to some of those people so I could try and attain information from them

[late vault]

I found a way to get it a little louder, but nowhere near as significantly as the destructive amplifications

[crude panther]

yeah that's the problem, not that it has to be louder, but that it has to be louder by SO MUCH

What should I ask the people who know the code of this game super well when I get in touch with them?

(I only know character & music modding, nothing deeper)

[late vault]

You really just need to grab a file from the game for me to look at
I want to see what the voice line files in the game itself look like

[crude panther]

ok I might even be able to find that online

I'll search

ok I found it instantly lol

[late vault]

Alright, let me take a look

[crude panther]

got them but for some reason my media player cuts them off before they finish, hope that's just in my media player

[late vault]

I can probably find a way to inspect the data

[crude panther]

ok yeah it was just my media player

this is from sounds-resource, so it should just be a rip straight from the game

[late vault]

Very interesting looking one
It just about doesn't clip
Potentially done with the same kind of thing I'm trying right now
In Audacity the volume of this and what I have as the outcome is somewhat similar

[crude panther]

that's good 'cause they can't somehow end up as different volumes in-game if I'm following the same format

I assume

[late vault]

I don't know, try this or something

Should be all-ready to go into the game

[late vault]

Did this to it

[crude panther]

oh you did that already

I was about to lol

[late vault]

As well as my non-amplify amplify

[crude panther]

but that sounds like an oxymoron-

[late vault]

Whar

I don't know, try if it works

[crude panther]

it seems to not be clipping as much... and it got in the sound program (SuperSawndz) all good

I'll try playing it in-game and see

[late vault]

It certainly shouldn't clip, the audio level is not increased from 0dB

Magic trick

[crude panther]

What I'm hearing is probably just the game compression or something, it seems to happen to vanilla voice lines too

ok will put it in game and test

[late vault]

Yeah, 22.05kHz is low, only half of the frequencies you can hear

[crude panther]

oh wow

[late vault]

Literally cuts off the upper half of the sound

[crude panther]

upper half?

[late vault]

Yeah, the high frequencies

[crude panther]

huh. Is there a practical difference between top half and bottom?

[late vault]

Anything above 11K is completely just deleted

11K being 11kHz

[late vault]

In this case frequency

Top is everything above 11K and bottom everything below 11K

Let me try to get you an image that shows it

Original vs compressed

You can literally see how the upper half is just totally gone

You understand now?

[crude panther]

okay yeah it's in and sounds alright!

[late vault]

Only took my crazy audio abilities

[crude panther]

yeah I think so, I just meant like, why the top and not the bottom

[crude panther]

yeah

thanks for saving me

[late vault]

You can see it in the image

[late vault]

I just like messing around with audio

If you need more audio stuff, I guess I can help with it

[crude panther]

alright, thank you so much!!

[late vault]

[crude panther]

I'm really mentally stuck with this next step.
Honestly the fact that two very talented people have showed up to save the day for me on two problems in this project already now makes me want to see if anyone else who is skilled in this particular area (of rigging) would be interested/willing to help out.

I've learned a lot about 3D models in this process and it's great to but what I am experienced in is the programming of the character (and I can animate, a little.) Getting through all these steps of getting the model functional in the game has been insanely slow as a result.

[late vault]

Taprieiko comes to mind when 3D stuff is mentioned

[crude panther]

yeah, Taprieiko made the model I'm working with

It's just that I had to take the game character's skeleton and rig it to the neuro model inplace of the Neuro model's skeleton. So everything was unrigged, i learned to rig and did a shoddy job on it, and I need the skirt rigged too because I didn't do that

[late vault]

Maybe ask Tapriekio if they can help you
They've helped me before with throwing Neuro into a couple Source engine games

[crude panther]

Oh really?? okay I will!

[late vault]

Silly

[jagged salmon]

very unfortunate that this project is stalled considering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhlRRImUJq0

[crude panther]

Ah..... yeah I got kind of discouraged at needing to start over with a new model now that she has her new official design, and I still had so many things I had to figure out and do to make this work, I just ended up focusing on other projects (like Neuroverse fanfiction).
I do wish I could finish this one day, it's just a lot of work for one person without a lot of experience at it...

The fact this is a video and that anybody shows interest in this at all makes me remember and care again though

[jagged salmon]

continue with the old model, neuro is neuro

[rotund jacinth]

I'd say continue with the old models. You could add the new ones in the future when you have more experience. The old models can just become alternate skins afterwards, so the work wouldn't be wasted

[crude panther]

I just got burnt out on this and unfortunately never got the passion for working on it again. A huge part of it is just trying to figure out how to do things with limited resources and few people giving me answers

If I could just do the stuff I'm at least more familiar with, a.k.a. programming the Evil & Neuro's attacks, (I also know how to do animation, but I'm inexperienced so I'd be making low quality ones and need to improve) and it was like multiple people working on this together who know how, it'd feel a lot less daunting.

As it stands, aside from this being super cool, I mainly would be working on it just because other people want it, which isn't enough to carry me through the immense pain of trying to get this working

tl;dr: If anyone wants to help on this project that would be GREATLY APPRECIATED

[crude panther]

if anyone wants to do:
-3D model rigging
-Select and convert voice clips for Evil & Neuro (there's a google drive of their voice lines to choose from)
-3D animation of Evil & Neuro

(The rigging I need the most help with, as well as solving a terrible issue where the game crashes when going to results screen w/ Evil/Neuro)

[late vault]

I wonder if those voice lines are "clean", meaning they have BGM removed with tools like Roformer

[crude panther]

When I last checked them, they didn't, they were just straight audio rips

[late vault]

Then maybe I could clean them with my stuff

[crude panther]

That'd be amazing!
What voice clips to use would have to be decided though
And there's still that volume issue, thiugh i think you actually solved that before when I asked sbout it!!

[late vault]

Yeah, making stuff seem louder is completely possible
Just pick voice clips and I can handle it from there

[crude panther]

Man, seeing those Neuro, Evil & Vedal skins in Smash Ultimate that someone made and released really gives me mixed feelings, because of this

The only huge issues that's actually still legitimately holding this back from being real is the fact that when a match ends, the game crashes

and I have NO idea why, nor is it easy to find answers for these things

[tropic sail]

If it's when the match ends, isn't it something that loads at that point?

[late vault]

Weird
Have you got a stacktrace?

[crude panther]

The game has a crash handler that shows some info yeah, but that wasn't triggering for some reason on emulator. I'll try running the Neuro mod on console to see if I can get the crash handler to trigger there and get info from it, I guess

[crude panther]

yeah, it must have to do with the results screen, but I have no idea what could be the issue to make the Evil model load in-match but not on the results screen.

[late vault]

On emu you should also have a debugger

[tropic sail]

Compare the Neuro and Evil models and see if there’s any real difference between them

[crude panther]

With this old model I'm using, they're the same model, just textured differently.

[crude panther]

I haven't messed around with Emu debugging tool much, guess it's worth looking into. I know they're supposed to be better for that.

[late vault]

Well emulators are designed to support development

[tropic sail]

Hm.. doesn't really make sense

[crude panther]

Well, they both crash it as far as I remember, so...

[tropic sail]

Well... makes sense now

[maiden creek]

Hi Shadrake! Don't feel discouraged by my mod existing! What you are working on is FAR more complex than what i did with my skin mods. I'll be cheering you on as a fellow Swarm member. The more Neuro & Evil stuff in Smash the better

[crude panther]

oh wow, thank you!!!
Don't worry, I had kind of burnt out on this months sgo, since around Evil's model debut in March. I still want to continue it though, snd honestly your skin mod in SSBU is so cool and that, plus especially seeing people talk here in the thread is motivating me to want to keep trying with this

For real that's a super encouraging message and I sppreciate it so much

I saw you even made those models yourself, did you rig them to pokemon trainer's bones too???

[maiden creek]

I'm so glad to hear that my message helped cheering you up!

And i understand the burnout thing, it happened to me too at one point in my modding journey where i just didn't took enough breaks and mostly thought about people's expectations of me and my mods (running into tons of bugs didn't help either)

Also yea, i did rig my models to trainer's bones too.

I still find it so cool that people still mod Brawl! I wish i could help with Brawl stuff too, but sadly i started modding Smash since Wii U so i'm lacking a bit of knowledge there.
Tho, i am in a private server with some of the OG Brawl modding veterans who also worked on Project M and stuff, so if you ever need a hand or pointers, i might be able get in contact with them. (or at least i hope so)

[crude panther]

Thank you!!!

I've just only ever had the drive to work on this when I've gotten obsessive over trying to make it work and spending all mytime bashing my head against it hoping it'll work until I burnout, it's happened a few times over the years and I'm finally this far

Honestly that's AMAZING, it's hard to get answers in the Custom Brawl Modding discord, and I'm only aqquaintances at most with a couple of people who do programming for mods. That's super cool you're in that server

The thing though that has totally ruined all progress for me has simply been model impotting. I learned rigging doing this. So it's a super shoddy job. And I haven't made bones for thr skirt or rigged that (an absolute nightmare that I've had no energy to even sttempt). I'm a total novice at rigging and so even though I finally have thr modrl in-game, the skirt (and hair, but that's less important) just clips through everything with no way to animate it.

So if I'm gonna make new animstions (attacke and stuff), I need to at least get that rigged (and get the game to recognize those as valid bones, that comes after though)

That is my second biggest roadblock right now, behind the game just freezing whenever a match ends...

Also I had to decimste Taprieiko's model by like 90% so it'd have few enough verts to run properly

[fresh grotto]

Do you have ideas for Final Smashes already?

If not, I have some ideas!

Neuro's could either be a straight-up gun, Neuro Car that runs the opponent over, or "I'm Thinkin' Neuro Neuro o oo o" as a full-screen attack that goes back and forth.

Evil's could either be a rain of pipes, awakening the Abber Demon, or something to do with BOOM.

[crude panther]

Those are all cool ideas
Final Smashes would probably be the last thing I'd work on, but I definitely want to give them those if I can get to that point!

I'm gonna finally go find the SD that has Evil & Neuro on it to try and see if I can find out the cause of the match end crashes.

Thanks everybody for giving me the motivation to try again

ah, here we go

Looks like march 8th was the last time I messed with it...

crud.... this is an older version. What happened to my progress on her texture issue and removing the unrigged cat features??

I regards to the end of match crash... managed to find the debugging features Superbox mentioned. So at least I have information on the cause, though I'm not smart enough to understand most of this

I'll ask around, hopefully can receive an answer

[fresh grotto]

This is making me think we need Neuro and Evil for MUGEN

[crude panther]

Okay well the bit I do understand here is that it's crashing due to a null reference to 4 texture files

I have no idea WHAT those could possibly be, but that's the reason.

The bright side is this makes me have far more hope at fixing this issue and getting Neuro & Evil to work

[tropic sail]

Doesn't the game expect something at that point?

[tropic sail]

Like an animation

[fresh grotto]

If anyone starts this project let me know, I'm more than happy to be a tester, I have all versions of MUGEN

[fresh grotto]

Someone tell Vedal there is a problem with my AI.

[late vault]

Random theory: what if the crash is because there's no end of match animation defined for the models?

[late vault]

Hm
What does a typical end screen contain? What textures may it load that are character specific but also not the model's textures

[crude panther]

It does, but that shouldn't be related to textures, nor did I replace the animations file... which is very confusing

[crude panther]

I thought of that, but animations are a separate file from the model itself, which I haven't messed with at all yet.

[late vault]

Well could the animations be incompatible with the model?

[crude panther]

I'm planning on checking this out. I'm gonna test to see if the crash for sure only happens with the model I imported, and try to figure out what is possibly changed for the results screen

[crude panther]

The only reason that would happen is if they tried to use bone IDs that don't exist - but that's precisely why I didn't delete any of the existing bones when I ported the Neuro model over the skeleton

Okay, so the crash happens even if it's on a normal model for the character I replaced... did I never test that before??

It doesn't crash for other characters, though.
What in the world did I do to cause this lol

[late vault]

Well go back trough things you've changed and see I guess

[crude panther]

Thing is, I last worked on this over 7 months ago, and I spent dozens of hours on it, I don't remember all I did

I'll just have to look through all files related to the results screen for this character

[late vault]

Apparently people fix this with "version control systems", whatever those may be for

The thing with not knowing what you've done that is

[crude panther]

Checked the Results Screen stage itself, nothing missing for the character

There's a couple menu places to check still elsewhere that I gotta find again, forget where in the files they are

[tropic sail]

I asked ChatGPT about the log, and it said it was a function being called to clear a texture. Maybe the models need to be destroyed before the animation starts

Or something

[crude panther]

Somebody in another server said this to me, dunno how much to trust it, nor if it's that helpful

[crude panther]

to clear a texture? interesting....

[late vault]

ChatGPT is not helpful here

It's not trained with enough data for this

[crude panther]

that makes sense

[tropic sail]

You seemed offended

[late vault]

Wha

[tropic sail]

I looked on YouTube for what should appear after a match, but I couldn’t find it

But if the game is going to load the animation of the original models, it makes sense to release the mods before that

[crude panther]

Phew.... had a super busy weekend, but I should have time to really put into this this week!

[crude panther]

I mean, I could easily get that for you

My current plan is actually to just reset the character files to normal and see if it still crashes.

If that still crashes, that means it's not from the character files at all.

If it doesn't, I'll add back in just the costume file for Evil N. Then see if loading a normal costume for the char crashes.

If it doesn't, I'll try my current model. If it does, I know it's (somehow) something to do with my model (though how that breaks a normal costume I don't know)

[tropic sail]

Yeah keep swimming

[crude panther]

Well, I reset the fighter files, and the game still freezes , so that's.... interesting

I'm gonna try getting a fresh copy of the game and putting them in again and see if it crashes

well, it's working fine now on a fresh build

now to figure uot what happened to the model with the fixed texture and removed unrigged cat features....

OK I tried to load the Neuro skin and it crashed the game for real whyyyy

I put the fighter file and sfx back in, and it reintroduced the crash (also the sfx aren't playing). This narrows down the crash cause greatly.

IT'S THE SOUND EFFECTS

HOOOOOOOOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SEEEEENSE

[tropic sail]

"Programming"

[late vault]

You must have somehow messed up the encoder
Ensure the codec is correct and no sound effect that doesn't exist is being called

[crude panther]

It definitely can't be calling sound effects that don't exist since the freeze doesn't occur at a point where any Evil voicelines happen. I guess it has to do with the encoder?
I'll restart the voiceline adding process and monitor when it starts freezing

[late vault]

Remember to keep things in WAV format while editing
Confirm the exact ffprobe output for the currently existing sound effects and try to replicate

[crude panther]

Well, this doesn't look right...

[late vault]

Yeah that isn't quite correct

[crude panther]

Haven't been working on this because I've had so many other Neuro-related proejcts I'm working on, but I was organizing my computer files and found this screenshot from march 8th when I had the texture and model issues fixed. IDK what happened to that.