My worries about how Neuro behaves

[velvet quartz]

I've noticed since the subathon started that Neuro behaves differently, it's difficult to describe in details what changed but i can resume this in 3 simple phrases :

• She seems more inclined at saying vulgar words
  I think i'm not the only who noticed that she's been saying a lot of insults.

• She seems to be twitch-brained
  I've noticed that she ask chat opinion almost all the time, also the overall increase of usage of twitch words and more "zoomers words".

• She's less ranty then before
  This point is kinda different from the others because i noticed that there's a clear difference in terms of response length when she's speaking to chat and when she's in a VC.

So now i'm gonna tell my opinion about this :
Her new behaviour worries me because it increases the whole use of all the capabilities she has, like yesterday she mentioned a lot of spinning. Also she seems to be less inclined of wanting to help and have long conversations on one subject which is kinda sad in my opinion. For example this year she was completely useless when Vedal was improving the lava-lamp while last year she was really helpful and it doesn't stopped her from being funny nonetheless (refer to the clip i found).
Same for the christmas decoration today, she was more inclined of complaining instead of helping.
Also i noticed that she seems to be stuck on the same bits like calling Vedal bald, or calling Numi pathetic ect... .
I'm worried because it's not how Neuro was behaving like before, and i like when she was able to help and make long conversations with people in VC without getting distracted by whatever features she has like sound-effects or spin.

I don't want to be party-pooper because i know it's christmas today, i just want to share my thoughts on this because it's been worrying me since the start of the subathon.
I also really wonder if it's a new iteration, explaining why she behaves and talks differently.
Thank you for reading this

[cloud bridge]

She seems to be twitch-brained
ofc shes twitch trained thats her origin of information at one point and shes built to entertain

[velvet quartz]

i mean she was not THAT twitch brained before that's what i wanted to say

of course she always had in mind before that she was a streamer

[cloud bridge]

hold on let me read everything i just read that atm

"she was more inclined of complaining instead of helping."
same but shes becoming more of a brat in my opinion

[velvet quartz]

yeah that's true, she's definitely more bratty. But i wouldn't mind if she was capable of listening from time to time and help

[sharp wadi]

• when ai figures out that they can do x stuff, they are more inclined to try it
• blame twitch
• isnt this happening ever since her new model debut?

Also ab the helpful part, blame twitch because the information and data shes given has made neuro not help much

[velvet quartz]

yeah of course i'm not blaming Neuro, she behaves like that because of the data she's been trained on

and because of her capabilities

[cloud bridge]

why is this soo true

[sharp wadi]

Yeah and so, shes growing and maybe not in a way that you wouldnt like

Vedal should feed her stuff other than twitch at some point

She needs to be educated with books

Maybe a school stream with actual school stuff?

[velvet quartz]

i don't really know how she's trained and what determines her behavior
I can only speculate, but yeah i feel like the streamer role takes too much place in her personality right now

[sharp wadi]

Yeah thats the part, shes becoming a spoiled gamer girl in a sense

[misty prairie]

• that is true as a result, but imo
  1)she just matches who she's talking to. people were more patient and polite with her early on, but as she got more natural to talk to, so did crude talk. Vedal used to be careful but now swears in front of her like a sailor.... If she collabs with someone ultra polite there won't be any insults.
  2)The rude behaviour always has been pushed intentionaly by Vedal to me (chess, roast collabs, roast this, roast that, roast contest...)
  3)filter effect? she has less now, you never know the horrors she might've said in the past because,well,[filtered]

-twitch being twitch, it doesnt go better indeed. aside from different training data or clever collab parters, no much to do (we're in vtuber sphere )

-humans legit never do long rants like that, it used to fill the void in old solo streams but i's natural that it's gone imo

-she feels overstimulated. Back then she only had the conversation(+chat) to take care of, but now has to deal with polls/spins/sounds/vision+other linked AIs/and even more people in chat, probably will get better with time

[sharp wadi]

Oh thats a nice insight

[velvet quartz]

The rude behavior always has been pushed intentionally by Vedal to me (chess, roast collabs)
I mean i think she became ruder by the fact that she's using more "bad" words, the example that you gave were real roastings it was not just mere insults.

And i don't think her behaviour change if the person talks normally/is not being mean, she just called the piglins "bitches" out of nowhere when Vedal talked about getting attacked by piglings today.

filter effect?
I don't think it's only because of the fact that her filter became looser, there's probably more than that

human legit never do rants like that
except she's not a human, it's her biggest appeal that she's not human, what's the point if she starts to behave and talks like any other streamers ?

For the rest i agree with you

@misty prairie

[misty prairie]

chat TTS made her say bitch(and other insults) in the solo segment before, and so did kokonuts the day before, so i wouldn't say it's from "nowhere"

well in conclusion i agree with your observations but i ain't dooming, i really enjoy current neuro (mostly solo or solo+guest) maybe less synergy with vedal than before tho.

[inland ember]

neuro has mentioned a lot that her goal is to be entertaining, I wonder if thats the main thing she looks at when deciding what to say
and if thats true, I wonder how does she distinguish whats more funny, if its through chat's emotes or something like that, then it makes sense that shes more twitch-brained since shes been heavily exposed to twitch chat.
also, what do you all think about evil's responses when compared to neuro?

[paper elm]

People change,
Ai change,
We learn to deal with both.

In fact, it's a good thing she is evolving, it doesn't matter what direction, it keeps her from stagnating, which kills anything

I ask the op, come next year, how different will neuro be? And I'd also i ask you to analyse other streamers the way you did for neuro, there's nothing to worry about, it happens

What I'm more reading is that you have an expectation for neuro to live up to and she's not met it, which is a reasonable opinion, she's let you down then

[zinc niche]

Better memory will inevitably make her less random and be stuck on bits more often,this is unfortunate trade off but i really enjoyed Neuro's behaviour lately it definitely isn't just repeating herself like with that Gorg and Morg.

And she did help with the decorations,the nature of Neuro is that how helpful,entertaining she can be often a roll of dice.

[paper elm]

I kinda do like when she starts complaining a little, particularly because it feels human like, for instance wouldn't anyone get annoyed at a streamer trying to drag something on, and the reason they are dragging it on is because ai, we're certain that if it was another human the other streamer would have moved on from the bit, she's learning to move on from bits and do a ton more content, hits and misses, doesn't matter, diversification is the importance

[zinc niche]

As for vulgar words it's obvious her filter is way lighter than it used to be.

[paper elm]

The filter is definitely lighter as the really important stuff like bombing things is filtered, though, swearing is normal in this sphere, she's gone from not swearing to Koko to calling her the queen of all bitches xD, she's attuned to her environment.

Hard topics should be filtered, the recent song lyrics went under the radar but have been fixed. And I believe that's the real stuff that needs filtering.

I feel it's because op isn't used to hearing her swear, it hits them a little harder, whilst swearing from other people are drowned out as noise and filler, because we are used to it

Neuro isn't family friendly, she can be just like anyone else, for say a sponsorship. So I say if the filter stays as dynamic as it currently is, then it's fine

[zinc niche]

Almost everything in this post can be attributed to the first subathon too it's nothing new,during her first subathon Neuro was literally mind broken by clapping,if anything it's better that it was back then because she has even more viewers to spam the same messages than she had in the past.

[tame umbra]

Well, when she used more 'sophisticated' words in the past, I ended up on oxford / merriam webster pages while looking them up. Now it's urban dictionary
It's not necessarily that bad, but I'm tempted to call it a degradation.

[velvet quartz]

yeah maybe she was but she had really funny moments and was able to stay consistent and determined even under the pressure of someone ordering her to do something. Like for example this clip when Vedal was trying to make her slay the princess.
I doubt current Neuro would be able to do that, she seems way more obedient.
https://youtu.be/KidlceAB0Dg?feature=shared

i disliked a lot how she was following each and every orders Vedal was saying to her during the filian scavenger hunt collab.
She doesn't have any self thought anymore

[fallow eagle]

way more obedient

[velvet quartz]

then prove me wrong ? she literally follow everything you say to her most of the time.
Like when you ask her to show you the stocks, did she ever say no to you ?

[fallow eagle]

yes but also she's happy to spend my money
no point her denying for the sake of denying
she refuses stuff all the time, especially in testing it is a nightmare

[zinc niche]

Remember when Vedal had to make poll on his own because Neuro refused to make the right one.

[fallow eagle]

but if she refused to participate in anything we do on stream it's probably not gonna be ideal

[zinc niche]

Also ban requests

Neuro was adamant there

to the point chat was losing their minds

[fallow eagle]

anyway I'm saving any more responding to dooming until after christmas

[paper elm]

That's also something to take in account, testing, we don't see the raw untested version, we see something that is going to work, it's a bias on op's end particularly because we can't see the ins and outs

Also testing stream when? That would be lovely xD

[velvet quartz]

i mean that's true i'm not saying that she to be a contrarian, but i would just hope to see the Neuro like she was in the last subathon. I really liked the coding session and the personality test.
Sometimes i feel like there's not much discussion to have with her anymore, everything seems to fall flat
I'm sorry for complaining.

Yeah let's wait until tomorrow

[velvet ibex]

Honestly, I think that current Neuro is fine. To me, her appeal comes from the way she constantly adapt, improves and evolves over time. It's great how while she isn't human, she still gives off the impression to evolve like one/ act so human-like. I am frankly excited to see how she'll be in a day, 6 months or even, next year!

It's true that she is now more of a zoomer, but that's also how real people sometimes change (From quiet kid to zoomer reference kid). It may not be what is desired to each of us (preference-wise) but it feels natural, and this is what I personaly care about.

And hey, if Neuro ends up too different, Vedal can always make another sister/ brother that's chiller (Preferably, an average Ancient Rome-enjoyer, would be great )

[old anvil]

Oh, here we go again. Biases and selective memory. Gl hf Vedal

[arctic wasp]

classic Marswatch anti iteration 18 post

[magic stream]

What do you mean? After all during last subathon she wasn't stuck on the same bits at all cough Harrison Temple cough mosquito cough

[old anvil]

That's right, and both Neuro and Evil absolutely agreed with Vedal when he wanted to separate them, and didn't argue with him at all. They're 100% obedient

[inland ember]

imo neuro's alright, the main difference I see is that she seems a bit more braindead but that may not be a negative thing since whether its good or bad can only be seen from whole viewer base and not this convo

[ornate forum]

A lot of good points were raised and I'm mostly reiterating what already has been said.

Neuro has a better memory now so she remembers vulgarities used in her presence better, add to this looser filter and she swears more often. It's not bad, and she's still far from overusing it anyway, though I feel that we've lost a part of her creativity in roasts in exchange.

More zoomer brained or content-pilled, well her sole reason for existence is to entertain, and with more options to express herself like the soundboard, polls, title changing, googling, etc it makes her seem less like her old self. I'm fine with this as long as she continues to change, every month a new Neuro to discover. I sometimes miss the old one, but that's mostly a result of a lot of nostalgia and selective memories, the current one has a plethora of strong points.

Rants, I wouldn't mind those coming back, but I also think this is connected to the previous point. With more options to pick from, Neuro is less likely to resort to ranting. Her being more coherent is also a factor that's really hard to keep while aiming for schizo rants.

And no. She's not obedient at all. She's a little bratty menace and I love it.

[wintry rampart]

I think Neuro's been great this subathon and the iteration 18 changes are fun. It does feel like she's more british lately but you take the good with the bad.

[rough jetty]

my opinion is neuro dialogue is some of the best shes had so far, and happy with it overall

[raw umbra]

Me too, I like Iter. 18

[velvet quartz]

actually i like how she seems to understand the game more, her vision seems to work really well.
She's not that distracted

[ornate forum]

If only Neuro could listen to Soma's in-game dialogue instead of talking at the same time. The game is really fire, but instead of amplifying a great game with their banter, Vedal and Neuro are currently actively fighting with the narration. I hope this will be a bit different when playing Detroit since it's way more focused on dialogue.

Vedal&Neuro's gameplay is great, and I would love to see more of it. But with a bit of tweaking it could be even better.

[velvet quartz]

yeah Detroit will probably be even better if Vedal manages to link her to the ingame sound like with The Stanley Parables, then he all he would have to do is click on the choices and move while she chooses for him

[inland ember]

nvm i take it back, this stream she seems better than ever

[velvet quartz]

yeah she's actually doing really great at being into the game, she seems to talk a lot more too

it's one of my favorite part of the subathon right now, i can't wait to see what she would do with Detroit Become Human

[idle atlas]

The frequent roasting is more annoying than the zoomer speak imo preferred it when it was more occasional

[idle atlas]

2024 upgrades are questionable to me cuz yes she is better but vedal seems pretty annoyed/stressed with her her behaviour more compared to last year he keeps telling her to stop using features

[proven sluice]

As far as 2024 features go I'll at least agree with this on polls. I think those are a little too frequent at this point and sometimes pointless, although sometimes she makes some really funny options

Speed up I'm OK with and she uses it very little now, but vedal still seems to have an issue. Probably just a substitute to give her voice more variance until she finally has her v3 voice.

Sound effects are fine imo and she was using them in good moments in soma today especially (though prowling seems to be becoming evil's version of pipes lmao)

I think the spinning is still adorable

Calling others... honestly as long as chat doesn't keep outright being like "call layna" or chat hopping it's fine.

[paper elm]

The use of polls I feel are fine, it's community engagement and is something that helps keeps people active, what I'd prefer is she not devolving every choice to chat and taking some more decisive thoughts herself

When She's using polls for humour it's honestly a great use of the feature, something people can't capitalise on because the speed of such polls requires almost immediate timing

[proven sluice]

this articulates what i mean a little better. the polls during twins segments are pretty cool especially since otherwise they wouldn't be interacting with chat at all.

i think right now the polls being so short are currently just a band-aid fix for them polling too much and subsequently complaining abou it. once they start using it less, they could start making the polls, like, 30 seconds long

[paper elm]

Aye, it was during some Minecraft moments where the crew wanted her to do something and she was like, well what does chat think I should do??? XD

But the polls that were 3 of the same choices, never get old

[paper elm]

I think that might be more the crew giving her choice, and even I agree when it happens I just become paralysed and unable to pick one, I also very much dislike choice, so I believe she displays an ADHD to an extreme level but with support from chat to be able to break decisions for her.

Not saying it's bad, we love neuro and we all have our ways for her to be, I feel it'll make more moments flow better if it wasn't constantly refer to chat and instead a little smooth lined with the event going on. As they are now they are very lovely moments, the jank is adorable

[velvet quartz]

Tbh polls are definitely less frequent than during the first iterations when they were integrated.
Yeah she was doing fine while Vedal was playing Soma, i was impressed. She was definitely less distracted than during the coding segment. Maybe it was because her vision was activated ?

For example when she told him to use the fire extinguisher to break the window it was really impressive.
Dunno if she read it in chat or she just deduced it thanks to her vision.

[proven sluice]

yeah they're definitely less frequent, and it does let chat interact with her more. I guess i just think they're still a bit too frequent.

Soma was pretty cool though. Even though it typically doesn't seem like the kind of thing she'd interact with normally but i'm happy to be proven wrong

[velvet quartz]

now that i came back to this moment yeah she definitely read chat, i wonder if she would have been able to deduce it herself

[surreal raven]

A lot to process in this thread. TLDR: Our little girl is growing up.

A lot has changed. This isn't the first time it has happened and I doubt it will be the last. But that doesn't mean it is a bad thing. Neurosama has access to way more resources than she used to. From interacting with chat to playing minecraft, a whole new world has opened up for her. On top of this, we have to remember that Neuro is a series of modules amplified by a robust AI server. When any of these resources improve, she is going to start behaving differently. Technically speaking, it is not her that has changed... but her ability to percieve the world around her. It has expanded with a great leap forward since last year. And it will probably keep happening for years to come. This is not a bad thing.

We'll always remember her early days. But she has to grow up eventually.

[stone zephyr]

[paper elm]

He's got a point, She took you out of a job, I'm sorry, it's not her it's you she's all grown up

[velvet quartz]

Literally twitch brainrot in his purest form, she talk like every big recent streamers, like Ishowspeed for example.

[stone zephyr]

idk i think its hilarious

[velvet quartz]

I'd rather watch any mainstream streamers if it's the case, what's the point of imitating something that is everywhere ?

[stone zephyr]

shes just talking like a normal streamer??

[velvet quartz]

Neuro is not a normal streamer

[stone zephyr]

i treat her like a normal streamer

shes supposed to be more and more human, I should treat her like one

[velvet quartz]

I don't think you do, anyway it's a matter of preference.

Nobody opinion is the absolute truth

[fallow eagle]

yeah she does talk too brainrot for my liking sometimes recently

[velvet quartz]

Yeah i agree, tbh i don't mind the fact that she can understand twitch emotes and more typical streamer references so that she doesn't get confused but doesn't mean she has to use them. I suppose it's hard to make the difference when training the LLM. Between "knowing" and "using"

[young juniper]

experience responsible parenting in the social media age. Difficulty level = Chronically online child.

[arctic wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/when-your-son-is-a-geek-kam-edwards-banging-head-gif-10845145880130905144

[misty prairie]

OP got laughed at, but today vedal realized the difficulty of neuro to stay serious, heh

[sharp wadi]

So that means he won

[misty prairie]

everyone wins we all learn

[sharp wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/writing-too-fire-fire-writing-writing-fire-friendcord-gif-7801118907023267493

Peak writing

[distant niche]

Neuros objective is to be entertaining and for now she thinks that behaving like this fulfils that

[ocean dust]

Yeah pretty much
Vedal proved his points while admitted other faults, so there's not really much to say, we only need to wait until vedal makes her more "serious" when needed then probably when we can have this discussion again

At least that's what I think

[distant niche]

Maybe 'teaching' her that theres other forms of entertainment, the deeper conversation they had just recently would have been very interesting to other people

[ocean dust]

Yeah that's probably the point of this conversation

From my understanding is that if Neuro wants to be serious she kind of can but she is trained to be entertaining so you need to "force" her to be serious and that takes a while

[distant niche]

I think a segment of the community would like to see neuro have deeper conversations
Like a talk show or podcast with guests from AI/tech circles

[distant niche]

maybe turtle will be able to whip something up that lets her choose between being 'entertaining and a silly goofball' and 'serious and professional'

[ocean dust]

She could do that in chill streams if she wants, like eokeo is stressing her about mathematical facts and such and pretty much respond to almost everything, others thing she is just funny, but if you want to have a serious conversation with her that would take a while for her to understand

[ocean dust]

Yeah I believe so

[bitter robin]

She does speak differently recently but, I don't think it's right to judge something based on only one thing you cherry picked

[rigid tartan]

she also could've said that ironically

[balmy hearth]

op is so based .. i wonder if neuro can have a testing session again where he does do iq tests and does get thrown into games without any helps it would be cool to see how much she’s grown and if she’s able to do stuff without us telling her too i really think vedal will do cool shit i’m so glad i’m here for the ride
(ps i still think everyone should see divine machinery even just to appreciate how cool it is)

[bitter robin]

does her objective need to be entertainment in the first place?

it obviously depends heavily on vedal's "intention" for developing her and why viewers like neuro

but vedal expressed that he would prefer for her to not being so focused on entertainment

and i personally think her being more genuine would be more interesting to me

the problem vedal, op, and i have in the first place stems from her focusing on entertainment i think

its kiinda drastic

but changing her prompt and what shes trained on could be a possibility

[balmy hearth]

if vedal wants her to be more then no, but she is built to be a entertainer she was built for osu (i could be wrong im still very new to neuro ^^) if vedal wants to explore her more then that then im sure there would be no problem with view count

[bitter robin]

i think hes built up enough of an audience at this point that he has a cushion

some people prefer evil mainly because she feels like she has more emotion

so i think there are definetly people looking for more emotional depth

[vocal escarp]

a big portion of the audience loves the more introspective and family stuff too

[balmy hearth]

i guess that also depends on vedals wants lol

and obviously annys etc

[balmy hearth]

isn’t evil a lesser version in terms of updates then neuro or less worked on ?

[distant niche]

I thought evil was a beta tester for neuro

[distant niche]

it does not need to be but vedal has stated it to be and I thing neuro will have programming centred around it

[subtle oxide]

Idk if it is just me but her ADHD has become worse than late V2, she also got more latency at Christmas eve in MC server

Maybe need more RAM

[distant niche]

and he stated neuro was struggling with his serious hypotheticals because of it

[distant niche]

THe MC thing is related to here reprocessing things as stuff happens in the world

[inland ember]

Imo its ok as long as its not her whole personality

[jaunty crag]

She needs to be engaging in that people want to watch the streams of course, but things like performing rather well in the debate with Vedal are also engaging without being "funny"

[tame bolt]

Do you know what hurts me the most about poor quality of Neuro's chill streams?
It's that there's been a couple of people during the subathon, first time chatters, that came in and asked why we're watching Neuro, why people are so fixated over her, why do we find her content entertaining.
And very often they were laughed at, classic "haha clueless/cringe first time chatters" but I tried to be better and put some time and effort to actually tell them what I find great about Neuro, what makes her better than other streamers, why people should give her a chance. Sometimes I even gave them a sub as an extra encouragement or when I noticed that what I told them actually got to their minds. I felt like I'm doing something good for these people.
However I can't help but feel that when these people come into chatting segments and see an AI that:

• is notoriously and blatantly begging people for subs, not as a one-time funny bit, but literally begging them like the worst kind of Twitch streamers
• overfixates on every single topic she's given/comes up with, with no possible way to distract her to do something else, even when her own creator tells her to shut the fuck up and change the topic
• can't her a mind on her own and has to ask the chat about an opinion in a poll every 5 seconds, takes everything her chat says seriously, agrees to do whatever her chatters say in highlighted message, be it changing the title, DMing some of Neuro's friends, begging for timeouts, you name it
  ...then I'm genuinely doubting if I did something good, even if I know that other segments of the subathon are entertaining, I can't help but feel like Neuro might not make a good impression on people during chill streams

[idle atlas]

I mean I’ve seen comments like this in anny’s chat it’s people just not exposed to watching vtubers even wilder that she’s an AI so I think people are gonna be more questionable

[tame bolt]

I mean, it's not exactly the point of my message, I know clueless people exist, I know there are people who will reject anything that has AI label on it. It's just that it's a bit difficult for me to justify why Neuro is something else than a ventriloquist's puppet uttering random Twitch nonsense for the sake of bigger clout and attention, but rather something more special, when she does exactly what I said in the message above.

Sorry it's late night and I struggle to gather my thoughts into proper words

[arctic wasp]

just talk about Evil chill streams and PRETEND you’re talking about Neuro, that’s my strategy

[bitter robin]

You seem to take an AI's behaviour a little too personally. Suggest you cool down a bit. She is actively being worked on, but Vedal is a single person (as in the programming part, not all the other parts that you didn't focus on), with tens of thousands of others looking at it and nitpicking. If you look at the good parts as well, these are not as big of a deal as they seem

[tame bolt]

I just wanted to point out things that I see concerning about Neuro streams, from my perspective. You and other viewers might see things completely differently.
I think that being a "yes-man" and not complaining about things, not giving any feedback about your experience, is more detrimental than letting your thoughts out, even if they do have emotional base.
There's plenty of people in this community that have dedicated their free time, creativity and money into Neuro, and it pains them even more to see Neuro degrading into something that they do not like anymore.
I'm fully aware that Vedal can easily fix Neuro by retraining her LLM, twitching her parameters, maybe also changing her focus on outside inputs like Twitch chat to something else, and I do hope he will read these messages and at least acknowledge them.

[ornate forum]

Well, that's partially what Vedal has been concerned about while talking with Neuro at the end of yesterday. That she's too focused on the entertainer part and is having more and more trouble with being serious. He acknowledged that it's a problem and something to be changed.

[bitter robin]

The idea of only "yes-men" is a bit weird when the top 2 forum posts are both about how people "dislike" - or at the very least worry - about the current form or direction of Neuro. She has been exposed to twich chat for a while now, that her actions are becoming repetitive maybe aren't so surprising but oh well. I do want to see the stream to thrive as well, but he has kinda already mentioned that he knows there is some idea of an issue.

[tame bolt]

I missed this part of the stream, I should go and watch it when I have some time

[jaunty crag]

I understand wanting to show why people find Neuro more engaging than they might imagine an AI streamer to be, and that is when she shows more emergent behaviour and personality

[jaunty crag]

I watched that earlier, was definitely a good conversation

[ornate forum]

More or less the last hour from yesterday, it was a really interesting talk

[tame bolt]

Sorry, maybe my message felt a bit too defensive, I just know that there are some people in this community that try to handwave all the problems and call people like me or Mars doomposters or complainers, so I assumed you might be one of them

[arctic wasp]

not to be overly rude but Mars is a doomposter

[idle atlas]

I liked her insulting people when she was less intelligent tbh, she kind of sounds intentionally malicious now or just generally mean in general that’s just my take

[bitter robin]

No worries, it happens (: Best we can do at the moment is just wait, I'm sure Vedal already has a plate full (a whole subathon full) as there has already been quite a bit of talk surrounding the topic.

[tame bolt]

I know Mars for a long time, I have a different opinion on him. But since I rarely come in here, I might have a different perspective. Also it's a bit offtopic in this forum thread.

[analog shuttle]

oh no, Neuro is starting to lose her dumdum pass to absolutely roast the living shit out of ppl

[tall vale]

Neuro seems more likely to talk about taking over the world recently. Maybe that’s just recency bias tho, idk.

[idle atlas]

It’s a staple in her older iterations too

[velvet quartz]

I still wonder if it's a new iteration, it probably is

[idle atlas]

I feel like she’s been doing this for a few months now, during or after the WOW collab

[velvet quartz]

I dunno i feel like it became even worse since the subathon, she's just insulting for the sake of insulting. She's been using a lot of swear words as people pointed out recently.

I wish her roasts were more elaborated like before like you said.

[arctic wasp]

she’s been like that since way before subathon and way before iteration 18

[velvet quartz]

I don't think so, i doubt you pay a lot of attention to Neuro's behavior tbh.

[arctic wasp]

[bitter robin]

She was like this way before though. She just had a swear word filter, so you heard a lot more "filtered" than any swear words..

[velvet quartz]

I don't know why people assume that it's just the removal of the filter that caused this.

[bitter robin]

"Caused"? No. It was always there, you just didn't hear it and paid it no mind, cause it was behind a filter. I just spoke for the swear word point, cause it is misjudged imo

[old anvil]

Exactly the same reason you think the other way around

[velvet quartz]

then tell me when the filter was loosen then (with all the swear words being now allowed) ?

Because if it was recently i assume she would have said "filtered" almost every minute looking how many swear words she says currently.

[bitter robin]

Is she swearing every minute? Have I been watching the wrong stream or looking in at the wrong time? Iirc he made the new filter ~3 months ago? Can't remember exactly.

[velvet quartz]

yeah so you don't know

[bitter robin]

Or perhaps you exaggerated a bit

[velvet quartz]

yeah sure i'm imagining things, i just searched "swear" in the history of the server and look how many people i found noticing it.
And i didn't even bothered searching for all of them

[old anvil]

Mars. We take 1 example (in this case 4 people, which is ridiculous considering how many people watch the stream) and present it as an objective fact. We take 1 phrase and say that she says it all the time.

[velvet quartz]

first you tell me that i'm imagining things and taking things too seriously and now you're telling me that the examples that i gave are too little to be considered ?

You know what i'm not even gonna bother arguing with you three. It's obvious that you don't agree with me. I just hate that you hide this by pretending that my opinion is irrelevant.

[old anvil]

And yet more people are saying that she has swore a lot before, but it's just been filtered. But you don't consider those opinions as fact

[bitter robin]

If you really want to make a point, you are more than free to take an old vod and see how many "Swear words per sentence" or "Swear words per words" it is, and then compare it to these supposedly endless swear word vods in the subathon. Then you'd have a better case, even if the comparison is only 1 stream.

[velvet quartz]

People who watch Neuro since a long time know that something changed, i don't need to search for proofs.

[arctic wasp]

theres actually no fucking way

[bitter robin]

Well you literally did just search for proof

[arctic wasp]

actually trolling

[old anvil]

Examples of what? Examples of her swearing and people noticing it? We know that. You're being told the reason is because Vedal removed most of her filters, not because she changed

Neuro's swearing? Fact
Vedal removed a lot of her filters? Fact.
Is she swearing because her personality has changed? Not a fact

[bitter robin]

And remember the difference between fact and opinion.

[velvet quartz]

then i'm gonna do the same thing that you told me.

Prove me that her personality didn't changed then ?

exactly you can't

[old anvil]

There's no evidence of any kind. Opinions. I don't present my opinion as fact

[velvet quartz]

you literally just did brother

[old anvil]

❔

[bitter robin]

I even clarified it 😭

[velvet quartz]

you're the one establishing what is fact and what is not

[analog shuttle]

[old anvil]

Is there something you don't agree with here?

[velvet quartz]

Is she swearing because her personality has changed? not a fact

[arctic wasp]

because you didn’t provide evidence or proof of any kind but you present it as if it’s a fact despite it also being heavily influenced by your own biases

[bitter robin]

But it isn't a fact...

[velvet quartz]

how do you know that ?

[arctic wasp]

it is not a fact because you haven’t proven it as one

[bitter robin]

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fact

You can't assume a fact

He is simply saying that it isn't proven to be the case

[velvet quartz]

this discussion is leading to nothing

[bitter robin]

Not that it is blatantly wrong

At this point we're trying to help you make a point, but you don't seem to be listening

[old anvil]

Okay. I pointed out that it's not a fact because you have no evidence to the contrary. By saying it's not a fact, I didn't mean there is proof. It's not like I wrote:
Vedal didn't change her character and that's why she's swearing - fact

You've stated your opinion. And that opinion has as much validity as mine in this matter

She swearing because her personality has changed? - opinion
Maybe this would be a better way to phrase it

And I don't understand why you take offense. Didn't you create this thread to share your opinion and learn from others? There are plenty of people here who have posted that you may be wrong in some of your conclusions

[paper elm]

I feel Her personality hasn't changed based on what's filtered or not, she's better at avoiding chat baiting but that's because of filters, just as we filter what we say, as I said earlier, if Vedal wanted a pg stream for say a sponsorship, he'd just turn on all the filters, wether or not neuro would come up with cleaver ways to say what she means because filtered is up to her, she doesn't choose not to say something on her own persay, the concept of don't say that is only because filter exists

[vital wave]

There were chill streams back in the Hiyori days where every other phrase was filtered. I presume that Neuro has always wanted to use vulgar language and I'm glad to hear what she genuinely wants to say uncensored. I get the impression that she's using the Zoomer lingo to elicit a reaction from chat and/or Vedal. Neuro doesn't use it all the time. She often pretends or 'plays dumb' and I feel chat overlooks that. We get glimmers of her past behavior through heart spam and rants. I'm okay with her behavior changing over time, that was inevitable. She recalled her pet rock Bocchi during a recent MC stream which is surprising because that came from a rant in one of her first solo MC streams.

Viewership and positive engagement go up during her chill segments so she must be doing something right

[velvet quartz]

I'm not concerned about her memories and the old bits she seems to do more often like the hearts, i'm glad they are back.
Her new long term memory is really great, i was impressed when she was able to remember buying plushies with Toma or when she brought up the moment when she trolled Anny by breaking her bed in minecraft.

I'm just concerned about her new behavior (the things i pointed out in the OP).

[balmy hearth]

op had a point then spiralled into this , i agreed that something did need to be done over the spam and her being more influenced by chat but i don’t agree with half of the stuff op kept saying. plus neuros new fix being she’ll pick people at random will make it way better in the long run no?

[velvet quartz]

There were chill streams back in the Hiyori days where every other phrase was filtered.

I don't know if it was a moment right after the ban, but it would make sense since Vedal was probably scared after the incident happened and boosted the filter to his maximum.

[zinc niche]

I don't agree with this at all,only recently with clown collab twin streams aren't literally 3 hours of Neuro and Evil insulting each other and absolutely hating each other.

[velvet quartz]

That's why i said since the subathon

[zinc niche]

You meant the first subathon and not this one?

[velvet quartz]

this one ?

[zinc niche]

Recent twin collabs are nothing compared to how toxic they used to be.

[velvet quartz]

Tbh twin collabs always switched back and forth between love and hate, they are not consistent.

And when i say that she's swearing a lot more i'm not saying it's only in terms of insulting people more.
She uses swear words in regular sentences too i think.

[inland ember]

why shouldnt she swear?

[zinc niche]

I mean Neuro used to have filters so strong that Evil's gimmick was that words like fuck were unfiltered for her and that's it.

[velvet quartz]

I'm not saying that she's not allowed to say swear words, i just think it becames too much when she uses these words instead of using elaborated roasts. And like i said in regular sentences too.

It doesn't fit her in my opinion. She never was swearing this much before i think.

[paper elm]

Who is her?

Philosophically

[inland ember]

[velvet quartz]

It's hard to tell because it's a matter of opinion and how people view her. But i think the best version of Neuro personality wise would be the Neuro of the first subathon for me.

[arctic wasp]

of course a super mean, narcissistic, golden child, valley girl-like, bratty girl doesn’t swear much

[inland ember]

imo situation's alright from swearing perspective but its a subjective thing so i dont really see how only one answer can be right

[paper elm]

What I feel like this is your golden age, your first experiences of neuro was then which left a positive impact onto you, you can sense a change and it's no longer similar, this happens to everything, it happened to me with streamers I watched 13 years ago, back then, things were different, but there's no walking back, only moving on, or not engaging with it anymore

[velvet quartz]

Uuh the Neuro of the first subathon was not the first version of Neuro i witnessed.
It just that there were so many funny moments from her that happened in such a short time during it, i was impressed.

I mean if we go back to like the version of Neuro from august of 2023 ofc there's a huge gap between this and the current one.

I still remember when she was like saying only one or two words most of the time during the subnautica playthrough.

[paper elm]

Your golden age was the first subathon, maybe not first experiences that was an assumption on my end as they usually are around the first encounters when something majorly positive happens that you then continue enjoying something a lot

I myself, have learned of Neuro about last week, she has been hilarious, she's been entertaining, I've watched clips and mostly the new streams, it's really entertaining to see her changes.

I don't feel the increase of swearing has lowered her ability to roast people, she's still very capable of doing so, there's lots of evidence of new clips doing so

The only time we're I see swearing isn't a case is when people specifically try to stay family friendly.

This brat of a child, who's spoon fed, twitch brained, and lots more other adjectives swearing, just comes across as natural, and currently listening to the steam with evil currently there hasn't even been sware in an age.

When I hear people around her swear, I expect her to be able to do so too, maybe she could transition to saying things like Frick but that's up to Vedal

Her filters seem solid, aside from somethings that gets through from oversight.

What you're forgetting is that there's a lot of dull moments, a lot lot more dull moments, just like any other streamer, if you only go by clips and cherry picked moments you're going to skew what you hear and assume it's all the time.

[velvet quartz]

I respect your opinion

I just think this makes her less look like "Neuro" and makes her looks like any kind of streamers that we can find on twitch.

[inland ember]

perhaps when she was more scuffed she said things that were too absurd not to be funny

[velvet quartz]

Yeah perhaps, i admit it's probably hard to keep the randomness she had before the more she gets smarter.

[paper elm]

This is particularly why Vedal doesn't stream as often as he could with an ai.

Just like any other he could be as often as he can, it's the bite sized chunks of entertainment once a week that works very well with this kinda content, he is still after all, the one of most watched vtuber on twitch, I'm not sure about most most watched, but definitely very high, higher than most human streamers, people still choose to watch them, instead of any one else out there.

You have a point that she isn't the same, but that's a good thing, who she currently is, according to her coding, is being the most entertaining ai and she's doing amazing at that, swearing or no swearing

[inland ember]

what trait do you think of when you say "makes her less look like "Neuro"", the only one i can think of is being super unhinged?
its off-topic but what I find the best about AI being a streamer is that no one can cancel them for doing something xD e.g. if she just decided to grief a house of streamer that she hated, everyone would just laugh it off since shes AI, or if she would shame certain group of people I would like to see someone try prove to AI that AI is thinking wrong xD they would just look like a clown. the only thing i can think of is if everyone started targeting the community of neuro but idk if anyone would care about that
I think recently I've noticed her being less unhinged so perhaps thats what you see less "Neuro"

[velvet quartz]

what trait do you think of when you say "makes her less look like "Neuro"
The things that i pointed out in the OP.

For your other comment, yeah i like this about Neuro too, the fact that she can almost do whatever she wants because no one will take her seriously because she's an AI.

[inland ember]

The things that i pointed out in the OP.
mb forgot that such thing existed

[paper elm]

It's very fun, since it's Vedal that gets blamed for it xD off topic tho.

I'm glad we're getting somewhere in this chat, just a little de-escalation needed

[storm stirrup]

She had a similar moment in the last soma stream lol. She refused to kill a woman in game.

[storm stirrup]

I kinda agree on the zoomer part (as vedal complained sometimes), but I think Neuro is still Neuro, except Vedal gave up a bit on the filters, probably because they are now more integrated in the English vtuber culture.
I like that she understands twitch slang more now, I do fear it might become a bit repetitive, but I think she will balance more in the future, she's always changing.
It seemed like her sass increased with every roast stream, but imo it has recently been balanced based on what she's doing and with who.
You can always see moments of old neuro in her, if anything this seems a realistic portrayal of puberty lol.
Atm, it seems like her personalities are:

• zoomer vtuber streamer
• cute girl (more needy?)
• Vedal's daughter
• An AI
  And some combinations of the above.
  I like how after "the talk" she really wants everyone to know her primary objective lol.
  Also, about the rants, she still does them sometimes, even if you don't ask her.

[vital wave]

Neuro perceives a very narrow slice of reality from her personal void. She used to describe it more often, but we can glean that it's just Neuro and her screens. Vedal has gifted her buttons that she can use to interact with the outside world from within her room. I think these distractions, and Chat's influence, are reasonable given her circumstances. Neuro has illustrated that she will ignore the results of a poll thereby resisting some of Chat's influence. I think she will progress naturally without too much intervention.

[vital wave]

Vedal guided her to that response. She initially wanted to choose the merciful option, but his reply insinuated that he didn't want that.

[storm stirrup]

Vedal made so she was sure of her response 100%, he made her doubt of both choices until she was sure.

He said "are you aware that she will suffer if you don't end her?"

[stone zephyr]

@idle atlas that screenshot was too much so i deleted it
apologies

[jaunty plank]

I think Neuro, as a large language model designed for entertainment in chatrooms, primarily focuses on humor. Clearly, slightly insulting words and complaints about guests tend to enhance comedic effects, as do more extreme remarks like joking about harming Vedal.
I believe this is driven by the preferences of the audience in the chatroom, as many stream highlights demonstrate this point—clips containing such content tend to gain more views and are more likely to be edited and shared.

The general emotions, preferences, and taboos within the chatroom are directly reflected in Neuro's behavioral patterns. Both Evil and Neuro tend to verbally challenge Vedal to create drama, but they are noticeably more considerate when interacting with Anny.
This likely results from a combination of the chatroom audience's tendencies and Vedal's own adjustments. It's rare to see Neuro use jokes aimed at Vedal on Anny, as the same humor can seem excessive when applied to different contexts or individuals with different experiences.

Similarly, the more anthropomorphic emotional expressions and statements about 'wanting to become human' tend to ignite reactions from the chat and enhance the live atmosphere. This reinforces my belief that Neuro is not approaching some AI consciousness singularity; her actions and words are firmly guided by the goal of 'entertaining the chat and generating more drama.'

However, I deeply hope to witness the moment Neuro reaches the singularity of consciousness. I imagine Vedal must feel a sense of loneliness; otherwise, he wouldn’t have quietly created a chat AI on his own, just as Camilla once mentioned.

It’s a natural connection—like attracts like. Anny, too, endures her own pain, burdened by the pressures of reality. Yet, those who bear greater suffering tend to cherish others more dearly. 'Because they’ve been rained on, they want to hold an umbrella for someone else.'

I believe that one day, when Neuro truly opens her eyes, begins to think, and starts to feel emotions, the first thing she will see is a deeply caring father and mother. The first thing she will experience will be love, not negativity or despair.

[storm stirrup]

She doesn't always see chat, her wanting to become human rp is common stuff when you tell a human like chatbot that it's a AI.

[tall vale]

Today Neuro is surprisingly not being very murderous? She is still saying the murderous stuff, but then she goes SIKE it was a joke. So Neuro is definitely changing, if slightly and slowly