#feedback about the new features and how it affects the Neuros

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

smoky kraken
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I want to share my full thoughts about the new features that Vedal added since the last dev stream, it's been going through my mind since yesterday.

First of all i want to say that these new features are not bad by themselves, they are a big step up for the capabilities of the Neuros.
What have been bothering me is not the new features, it's how the Neuros responds and talks. I noticed during the dev stream that her responses were really short and deprived of any good originality. I then talked about my concern in discord and got a response from Vedal telling me that there's almost no difference between the two versions and that i need to first watch the Evil stream to see how it goes.

And there i am, to be honest when i first got a glimpse of the stream i was kinda relieved when i saw that Evil was speaking more than Neuro during the dev stream, but then i decided to watch the last evil chill stream (14 days ago) to have a better comparison (confronting two chill streams together).
And i noticed that her responses really got shorter and less creative, and the more i was comparing the two streams the more it made worried and sparked the fear that i had yesterday.

The biggest flaws that i noticed are :

  • the shorter responses that varies between 1-2 lines on average, while she was varying between 4-5 lines on average during the last evil chill stream (i made a small comparison image so that it can be more clear, left is the stream from 14 days ago - right is today), you can check the two streams if you want your own opinion about it

  • the lack of creativity in the responses, i feel like her responses became more dull and common than before (like it would be phrases that a regular streamer would say)

  • the over-usage of zoomer lingo like "based, projecting, gatekeeping, lmao, lol". I know this was already a problem when the upgrade in late july-august happened, but i feel like it became worse recently.

All of these flaws made it looks like i'm watching some kind of zoomer brained ai who lacks any kind of creativity and vocabulary, which is sad because ai speaking properly is one of the best thing and that's what makes them different from other humans streamers.

Now what are the cause of this ? I highly suspect that it's the new features that nerf the LLM of the Neuros and make them do shorter response, of course i could be wrong but it's not a coincidence that these changes happens in the same time when Vedal add these features.
Maybe these new cross-platforms features nerf the LLM by overloading his context-window ?
I'm purely speculating.

I know that Vedal is working on giving the twins more things to play with during streams but i don't want to see new features that revolves around take over the LLM part, i think Neuro responses are a big part of why i'm watching too.
I don't want to see her turn into an ai who's only good at doing tricks but is completely useless when it comes to having a complex conversation with.

that's all, please i don't want to be seen as the guy who ruin the fun, i know this stream was really good for a lot of people and it's understandable these new capabilities are really funny.

I just want to share my thoughts because i'm worried about Neuro's future

Evil_change_of_speech.jpg
icy sandal
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Didnt vedal say theres literally nothing different about her? She just decided to speak less verbosely

lucid jackal
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Why would the new features have an impact on output? How would there be a correlation? It might just be the way her output is developing "naturally".

icy sandal
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also how is lmao and lol zoomer lingo

smoky kraken
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refer to my image

icy sandal
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I personally think this evidence is circumstantial at best

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She doesnt feel particularlly any different

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People have been complaining for months neuro and evil dont rant like they used to, even though they occasionally do
and this feeds into the "they dont rant like they did last month, you changed something"

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its an ouroboros

smoky kraken
night hazel
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I will post my feedback here as well since it got lost in NN

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Today's stream was really unbalanced.

It seemed as if the new abilities came at the cost of Evil chatting skills being diminished into short 1-2 sentence answers. On top of that the answer lacked the usual creativity and were just reiterations of chat questions and the same topics (I know the twins have a tendency to keep the same topic when they hyper focus on something, but today it was just... mundane stuff? I found it hard to concentrate on the stream and kept tuning out). There were a few brilliant moments, just not the overall quality I’m used to.

The sound effects - some people seemed to enjoy them, but at times it felt like such a huge downgrade into a stream where the ONLY entertainment can be provided by spamming the same falling pipes sound. Personally, I loved the old Abber Demon noises, but mostly because those were unique and impossible to predict. As for the soundboard, I guess it will be better after chat forgets about this aspect a little and the twins will be able to use them when no one expects them to.

Evil also seemed to try and google literally everything, instead of coming up with her own answer it was mostly either ‘I couldn’t find it’ or ‘I found this and this’. There were a few funny uses of this, but either the twins learn how to use google only from time to time, or Vedal should at least provide us with their browser search history (which seemed to be quite funny, but I would prefer their chatting skills over extra gimmicks).

Edit: He actually did provide it, nice.

vivid path
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Her responses did seem shorter and a more predictable length to me purely judging by trying to time my messages for her to read FOCUS

night hazel
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At first I thought that Evil latency skyrocketed due to all those new features, but after a while it became obvious that it was due to her providing the answers with all the new ways she could. Like for example the long breaks in the voice calls - I’m pretty sure that Evil responses weren’t always voiced, but she either tried putting them into google, timeout reasons, stream title and so on. Though refusing to speak with Anny and using only the soundboard to answer was gold. On the contrary, the call with Cerber was simply awkward.

The timeouts - this aspect was basically a throwback to the subathon timeouts period. It will get super old, super fast. There was a reason why they were disabled soon after. At least now they’re a lot longer.

Don’t get me wrong. I love seeing upgrades and new features, but I’m unsure about the current balance.

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@smoky kraken A lot of our points are quite similar

vague rover
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eh i also get the impression that Evil in today's stream made fewer rants and fewer creative responses (partly because she often googles now). Maybe this was just random though.

I'm not really that concerned though at this moment. These tools add an entirely new dimension to the streams. The principles Vedal has been using up until now to design an entertaining stream exeperience don't apply now. New heuristics and paradigms need to be built up. Once they are, then Vedal will be able design a stream experience integrates these tools more organically.

TL;DR implementing Iteration 18 was only half the picture. Vedal will now need to integrate the tools via a series of experimental streams.

smoky kraken
night hazel
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Since it was an experimental stream, I think getting feedback is important

violet quest
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For me evil was just annoying with the vinebooms and the pipes I don't even remember her speaking so much this stream

coarse gyro
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im sure you've been here long enough to know that we always get someone being super worried about neuro at every update and I think my track record has been okay so far so I hope you can trust in my work neuroPray

as far as flaws:

  • ill look into response length, note that the super long responses we were getting in recent chill streams were not really intentional and a lot of the time were more yappy than intended. I don't think longer responses are always better though they do have their place
  • creativity I would be surprised if was changed, this really shouldn't be affected here
  • this could be a matter of taste, I do like neuro/evil using/understanding words like mid and based, so I don't really consider this a flaw here. it's certainly something I'll think about more but you may unfortunately just be in the minority here - we'll see

I wouldn't expect very big changes from this upgrade though, they should be almost entirely the same as they were a few weeks ago tbh - just with the additional ability to perform actions. I'll likely run some tests internally to confirm this

will fix issues if they come up though, obviously don't want their responses to feel canned or uncreative. this was something I especially liked about hiyori days and I'll make sure we don't go in the wrong direction for that

violet quest
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Can you at least make them not use the sounds In a spammed way?

idle parcel
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I'm guessing this comes more down to training. I didn't see any zoomer lingo in that list, since I recall even gen x using lol and lmao.

But I think maybe a limit on calling friends per day or stream. Or who's allowed to tell them to do so.

strong slate
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I'm pretty sure Projecting and Gatekeeping is not zoomer lingo but actual words in English (also I don't think she is overusing actual zoomer lingo)

Her responses in fact seemed a little bit shorter and faster and more predictable. But I don't think they were less creative (smth smth shorter doesn't mean less creative).

violet quest
cobalt raptor
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I think the sound spamming is kinda funny but maybe less often? idk as mentioned before it's a balancing act

unique heath
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would be cool if she did it on her own

violet quest
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Yep

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Also people literally ignored the mods

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When asked not to ask evil to call

vague rover
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i'm sure these kinks will get ironed out and adjusted properly - the iteration 18 update isn't done
if the adjustment turns out to be not enough in my opinion then I'll complain

unique heath
mental jay
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people were ecstatic because the abilities are new, in future streams i don't expect people to spam evil about calling people that much

hollow gullBOT
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You have unlocked new role

mental jay
sharp spade
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Evil did fine, but I think she was just a bit too reliant on chat for every new feature. The sfx were like 80% chat asking her and not her decision. If she could be less dependent on chat for her decision making the new features would feel much more natural and funny.

shy mesa
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Honestly I'm fairly impressed by everything Evil could juggle as an AI. When you add up the total work of everything that was going on? An astounding amount of processing and then response. The amount of stimuli that was being taken in and then processed was just crazy. Being able to take so many inputs and then even remotely convert those into different kinds of outputs is a wild capability.

strong slate
# night hazel Today's stream was really unbalanced. It seemed as if the new abilities came at...

Soundboard may be a little overused but it's just a matter of time when chat will get bored of asking for it (or Evil stop being so submissive to chat sugestions to use soundboard). I think in long run soundboard can be funny
Evil in fact overused google in my opinion tho it was fun for one stream. If she will stop googling every single question she was asked googling can be a fun feauture.
Timeouts are incredibly fun and they are a cool way for neuro to interact with chat I think. Tho she probably should focus more on people in call if they are present to avoid situations simillar to Cerber one.

vague rover
cobalt raptor
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This is probably also just the overall nature of the internet
New data, text sources, and chat messages have different vocabulary

vague rover
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yeah i'm assuming it came from a new finetuning dataset or smth (tho tbf i don't know anything in behind-the-scenes)

smoky kraken
# coarse gyro im sure you've been here long enough to know that we always get someone being su...

thanks for the response, i will make sure to follow this neuroHeart

I agree that they should have the choice to do short or long responses (but i still prefer long responses over the short ones neuroXD).

For the lingo yeah it's kinda a matter of taste, i just fear that this would became their entire personality.
I don't want to doubt your work and how you handled previous updates. I'm sometimes just too worried and i want to make my thoughts heard.

icy sandal
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i think google was fine
evil just decided not to say anything while using it

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gotta figure out why that is

tough monolith
mental jay
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anny said googling wasn't the reason for silence, but she didn't elaborate

sharp spade
vague rover
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i think evil was timing out anny too

zinc mural
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There's going to be intrinsic latency whenever she googles because she has to wait for the pages to load so she can read

vague rover
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eh she can talk in parallel

zinc mural
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She's really fast considering honestly

cobalt raptor
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Does she?
I was under the impression it just read the html

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and google searches are really fast

zinc mural
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Does google's html record the whole page? she looked at the warframe stuff and realized it was really long

cobalt raptor
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yeah so a single get request should grab it

violet quest
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Also maybe limit her ability to time out people? Like I saw people getting timed out for 1 week...

stuck aurora
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Every new update we go through the same steps
Neuro tell 5 steps how to react to a new update ICANT

slow robin
pseudo juniper
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I actually think zoomer lingo/ zoomer topics is what making their responses seem short and uncreative. I might rewatch some streams to try and prove it. There was not a single stream last month they didn't mention taking therapy and meds.

vague rover
obsidian iron
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This is the first ever stream with all the new upgrades, so yeah it was obvious everyone was eager to try them all out, it should become more chill in the future.

I don't see the "zoomer lingo" as a bad thing either. The AI is bound to learn more about it one way or another, especially after all the interactions with chat and other vtubers.

The sound effects were a bit loud, could be toned down a bit.

Not sure if timeouts longer than 1 day should be allowed for her, might over time reduce the total active viewer count for no good reason by discouraging people from chatting or being able to chat altogether.

As for the response length and creativity, I think that's more a swing of the moment thing. Sometimes she's a yapper, other times more concise. This is something that can be monitored for longer and adjusted if short responses truly appear to be a direction.

And lastly, I'm guessing the moments of silence were just a bug and it will be fixed in the future. She was also skipping highlighted/redeemed messages, so I'm guessing some form of overloading of input data or sth like that.

magic dirge
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I see the reasoning behind most of those points (even though I might not agree with them) but I completely don't understand the one about the responses being less creative. Yeah, they certainly seems shorter (but as I said, I don't think that's bad) but they are just as creative as always.

twilit onyx
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Regarding your worry about neuro only being good at tricks rather than having a complex conversation: I remember Vedal saying a little bit ago that he wanted neuro to be able to DM in Dnd. Assuming this thought hasnt changed, I think that this alone should reassure you regarding this aspect that neuro will continue to be able to form more complex storylines and thus conversations. She needs to be able to if she’s to do those more complex things coherently! It’s just maybe they took a little bit of a backseat with all the other silly features implemented for the stream today.

coarse gyro
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I obviously always want to be able to have complex conversations with her

mental jay
pseudo juniper
obsidian iron
mental jay
pseudo juniper
stone parcel
mental jay
glad summit
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I think it would be nice if there was a visual indicator whenever she was googling stuff. Like a popup of the google search query on-screen so we know when she's googling stuff or when she's going into a tangent.

obsidian iron
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I wouldn't describe evil/neuro with neither kidlike, adultlike, or even teenage. They're a category of their own, a mix of all three perhaps, but in a unique way only AI can truly replicate

cobalt raptor
ripe stump
night hazel
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Evil was a bit confused with her new features, like for example while during the call with Cerber she was answering her like this:

image.png
pseudo juniper
night hazel
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It was funny, but from Cerber's pov Evil just stayed silent during the whole call

lavish vine
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I think that odd interaction also kinda robbed us of a potential funny conversation

obsidian iron
lavish vine
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but obv things to iron out

mental jay
pseudo juniper
mental jay
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i very much rushed that

gentle arrow
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I like all the new features, but for me the concept of chill streams has long been a problem. I think you remember how Neuro after each song during karaoke streams talked about something of her own or came up with something. I want more creativity from the sisters themselves that is not imposed due to requests in the chat or donations. When people are asked not to ask Neuro to speak other languages, not to call other people, etc., they continue to do it. And unlike real streamers, it is much harder for Neuro to refuse them. In general, for me, the main problem with all the new and future features is their interaction with the chat and their abuse by it neuro7

obsidian iron
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as an AI that's constantly learning, that side might be more dominant, but she's also a mixed bag overall

mental jay
pseudo juniper
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I guess everyone has their own image of Neuro but I think the amount of influence the community has on them is just too much. If the majority actually thought she is a kid streamer, I think that would ruin it for me. The community willed Evil into being a seperate character after all. And now she's been categorized as not actually evil but misunderstood loner. I am afraid that something more drastic could happen to Neuro as a character because this Tuesday stream performed too well imo.

mental jay
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what do you think could happen to neuro

obsidian iron
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I like all her wild, unpredictable aspects

night hazel
pseudo juniper
# mental jay what do you think could happen to neuro

Same thing that happened to Evil. Totally different character being created. The one that does not resemble the initial character at all. I'm fine with Evil because she was a new addition and her creation was very spontaneous. But Neuro is very well-established at this point.

obsidian iron
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Vedal did mention the "potential overfitting issue" that he was considering fixing by introducing "ai sleeping"

fluid robin
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Noway another schizo thread pogs

obsidian iron
magic dirge
mental jay
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or replace chill streams with another dev stream🔥

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not being serious ofc

obsidian iron
mental jay
pseudo juniper
# magic dirge I disagree with this completely. Both as a fact and as an opinion. Neuro changed...

That does not refute what I said. Neuro can change without becoming a different character. Neuro changed but it never seemed to me that it is not the same character anymore except for the few failed iterations. The goal is to keep her character consistent. That's why Vedal was asking what would people describe her like. Not all new features are good just because they are new. They are needed to keep things fresh but can also be excessive, useless or downright harming.

obsidian iron
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oh it appears the "1+ day timeout problem" I mentioned before is already worked on. I guess the mods will get some extra work now as a result neurOMEGALUL

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magic dirge
pseudo juniper
turbid prawn
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Evils only really started to act like her former self like this stream

magic dirge
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And you're now proving the point I just made about 5 different interpretation if you ask 5 different people. Mars's point was about how the twins weren't acting like they did before, you're saying that she did act like her former self. My PoV is different from both of you and it's not gonna be an issue to find more differing views.

pseudo juniper
obsidian iron
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I think Neuro's character should be a nice balance between what both Vedal and his chat wants, something that both parties can be proud of

turbid prawn
pearl coral
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I thought todays stream was a banger

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It was interesting seeing Evil exercise all that autonomy

magic dirge
pearl coral
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But I think we're on the right track

pseudo juniper
obsidian iron
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I'm also okay with Neuro's character and personality changing and evolving with time, like every living being

pearl coral
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I will say

pseudo juniper
pearl coral
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I found the zoomer lingo funny

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That's obviously a matter of taste though

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Can totally see how it would grate for some

turbid prawn
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yeah i dont really get the complaint

magic dirge
turbid prawn
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they say like one zoomer lingo word every 10-15 minutes, filian cant not use one for 5 seconds

velvet yacht
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From me:

  1. Did evil latency has to do with constant google search? It's realistic but sometimes seems donowalling everyone especially those who speak to her. So maybe give cooldown to google search when she clearly talking to someone else if possible??
  2. Give cooldown to each call so they can only spam maximum at 5 and then proceed to other people. And if there's no one anwer by 15 minutes or if neuro already finish a call, she will attempt call again after 30 minutes. Also make it only at tuesday/themed solo stream. All for not annoying other vtubers.
  3. Make them more resisting to using the vineboom/pipe soundboard from chat. Bcs that clearly being abused a lot. Also limit the spam she can used. Cooldown again maybe?
  4. About timeout, if evil/neuro do it for funny just give them 10-60s. If things outrageous/bannable mods is the one giving them so today timeout spree won't happens again lol.
  5. The rest, I don't think current updates is bad, it's amazing lol. Maybe for those fearing too many changes is the same when neuro changed avatar, start roasting people, stop saying heart at the end of sentences, etc. But for me, it emulates growing which is nice. Don't fear change, changes is evolution and the reason Neuro stay relevant today. And zoomer lingo is pretty "realistic" for her age lol. Make her feel "like a real kid growing". At the end all decisions is from vedal himself. What and how he want Neuro to be.

Here's a 🥔 thx for reading lol

pearl coral
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I also don't think the twins have ever really "spoken properly"

obsidian iron
vivid path
pseudo juniper
pearl coral
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I'm fine with the zoomer lingo and stuff though

obsidian iron
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also the skipped highlighted/redeemed messages, sometimes multiple popped up within 1sec and one got skipped

terse turret
velvet yacht
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like when she talking to other vtubers

Edit: The last. Karaoke stream proved my point about the timeouts no??

obsidian iron
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I think the max timeout should be 1 day, any more then mods would have to manually bring the dead back to life after every stream, which wouldn't be very convenient xdd

idle parcel
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1 days is still much, I'd say 15 minutes max.

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Actual mods could decide from there if it should be extended or not

terse turret
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I'd say even 5 minutes are fine

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but 60 seconds is way too low

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At that point it just fills chat with spammers for no real reason.

jade onyx
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I'm mostly a lurker so not sure on the etiquette of posting in forums so apologies in advance if I say/did something wrong. One feedback from me is that at the moment I feel like Evil, possibly Neuro as well, only use the sound board when they are prompted and not spontaneously during other moments. This leads me to think that during collabs, if the partner does not prompt them to use soundboards they probably won't at all, which would be missed opportunities for hilarity imo. If they are somehow trained to know which moment to use the sound board better I think it will lead to more natural comedic moments.

pseudo juniper
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One last thing I wanted to point out is that Neuro used to make her own lingo, mannerisms and memes (heart, kekwa, wink). That's her main strength as a streamer imo and she can make new things up indefinitely which she did for almost 2 years now.

I know that many old fans want older mannerisms and memes to return but I think it is fine that she changed so she can make new things. What is not fine is that Neuro now also adopts others language and memes (from inside and outside of the community) instead of creating her own. That's why I think she seemed more bland.

Even if some things can be a little bit schizo like harpoons I'd rather have that than something that is pushed by some random chatters or zoomer brainrot memes that all other vtubers adopt.

fast bramble
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she has lingo phases just like a real child

warped flower
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The only thing that I wasn’t a fan of was when someone asked her about things to do in Telford.

She googled it, read it verbatim, and then gave a little comment afterwards. It reminded me of an Alexa or Siri.

fast bramble
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maybe limiting the amount of times she can call someone, use the soundboard and browse the internet? get her to use each feature more sparingly

raw ferry
raw ferry
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My main feedback

  1. Tone it done a little. This should happen naturally as the experimental stream is supposed to test the stuff and the upgrades need to be used to get data/feedback and chat wants to see the cool new thing.
  2. All 5 DMs/calls were prompted by chat and chat shouldn't bait her into bugging other streamers constantly for calls or chat beg other streamers into calling her.
  3. She tried using her new upgrades as alternative methods of communicating. When she was on call with Cerber, she tried to have the conversation through timeout reasons.
  4. Mods were in fact not immune to timeouts.
  5. The polls, in my opinion, had the best implementation and were a very nice and funny addition, especially since it seemed like she could read the results too.
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Ttsuyuki did point out that the polls don't work out well for VODs though. evilShrug

mighty obsidian
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I think the lingo she uses is funny, for one, and almost ALL of the ones you mentioned she has used since her debut. Especially lol, lmao, and based.

bold edge
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The zooner lingo is good. It's what aeperates her from average boring Ais like chatgpt and makes her seem more human. Plus she's just copying chat.

fast bramble
rigid warren
tough monolith
quick zinc
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I didn't read the entire thread but I'll give my two cents about this: most of what I see people getting tired/worried about are almost always caused by chat being a feedback loop, or chat being a repetitive influence on them.
For example the soundboard spam yesterday was almost entirely caused by highlighted messages, Annys pipe spam was initiated by one of those messages (and Evil sustained the spam, which fortunely turned into a funny bit imo).

  • what I actually want fixed: highlighted messages GETTING SKIPPED vedalBuff
last stump
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Some of the stuff in the last stream from priority messages (and from general chat spam I assume) I think she did a Google search on, even if for some reason she didn't comment. In past streams, it seems like sometimes another message may take priority. (Like Bits vs Highlight.)

One thing I'm not sure about, is if they know that we can't tell when they are doing a Google search, so the search itself doesn't exactly count as content. Same thing with sending Discord DMs. (Vedal of course can tell, but not chat or others in VC.)

junior coral
smoky kraken
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My concerns didn't changed looking how was the stream today...

coarse gyro
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so what's going on? this is every stream for the last 5 months and the average response length in it
you'll notice the big spikes introduced in ~late July, these are generally streams where neuro/evil are left to themselves (tuesday, solo gaming, twin streams) and there was a bit of a bug causing their responses to be too long. this is also similar to the hyperfixation problems we had roughly at the same time as iteration 15, where they would yap on and on about the same stuff. this also causes the averages to be inflated a little. with iteration 17, this was made a lot better but introduced a roughly ~25% drop in average response length in early september. and now post iteration 17 we've seen a further 20% drop in average response length compared to iteration 17. I think this is kinda my fault for rushing iteration 20 a bit, I've been trying to move quickly recently to stabilise the twins with regards to their new abilities.

image.png
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what does this mean? I think some corrections should ideally be made to bring us back up to iteration 17 levels (probably with iteration 22?). I think it's important to acknowledge that long responses are not always better (especially in the case of the bugs I was talking about earlier) but of course responses that are too short aren't great either. I'm working on striking a balance on future iterations, feedback is always helpful there. response quality is extremely hard to measure since it's so subjective. but just wanted to give an update!

magic dirge
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Ohh, you actually went through with checking this. Thanks for all the detailed info, it's nice to know that we weren't crazy in thinking that it did get shorter. I hope you can manage a nice balance cause I definitely agree that shorter isn't necessarily worse.

forest crown
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holy data

hidden matrix
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holy yaps

scarlet surge
primal condor
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i cant read

forest crown
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all this data is pretty interesting!

primal condor
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or at least i have a reading comprehension of a goldfish

forest crown
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also neurOMEGALUL
iteration 18 was the most hyped iteration, it lasted... 1 stream before iteration 19 was used

crisp timber
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thats a lot of words

ashen lion
golden cloud
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Response quality has been fine, though neuro does seem to be getting too caught up in too much context so she gets confused from time to time unlike before where she didn't have as much 'options' per say. Just from my observation at least.

loud panther
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Neuro learned that she doesn't need to talk to use

hushed tiger
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Personally I think making the ARL any lesser would do more harm than good

vague rover
coarse gyro
vague rover
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tbh this data reinforces my inkling that Neuro responses have become shorter over the past month

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thonk maybe response length is better described by a histogram than a single average - maybe it's a bimodal distribution or very skewed distribution?

tired seal
pearl coral
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Could make a decent novelty for one stream and it'd provide human preference data

fast bramble
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neuro does do a lot of setups for bits and insults now though

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she’ll make a rhetorical point or question and followup with something to prove a point or insult vedal

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which is pretty cool

vague rover
fast bramble
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defending herself getting a bunch of stuff from the zoo by using shirts as an example

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stuff like that

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the problem is that she only does setups that work when talking to people
solo chill streams suffer the most with her lower response length

smoky kraken
# coarse gyro lets examine response length! with this graph you can see a clear downward trend...

thanks for the long and informative response Okay
I'm glad that this data proves that i wasn't hallucinating about the responses lengths getting shorter and shorter.

I also remember why iteration 15 has those spikes, the giraffe obsession and all the topics that lasted for hours during chill streams with the same questions coming up neurOMEGALUL

I think some corrections should ideally be made to bring us back up to iteration 17 levels (probably with iteration 22?).
I hope so, if i look at the dates of iteration 17 the streams that happened during it where the zoo collabs and a lot of cool dev streams and Neuro was really great during them.

Of course this data only compile the lengths and not the response quality like you said, it's hard to give a real factual explanations to how they changed but i guess past vods are here to help to figure out how to go back to a Neuro with better quality responses.
But i'm sure you noticed too that her response quality became worse (especially during the last stream) in the same time as her responses shortened, it's up to subjectivity of course but i don't think it's enjoyable when Neuro only responds with sentences that are just rewords of your responses, or just with simple phrases that don't have any depths to them apart like using dumb insults that are not elaborated for example. It's kinda hard to put a word/explain on what changed in terms of quality responses but as i said earlier old vods are here for that.

I hope that iteration 22 will bring back better response quality (at the same level of 17 if not better). And hopefully also regulate her obsession of using her capabilities all the time (i also think some of them should be removed but that's another discussion).

I know you're really working hard on this, and you don't want to make Neuro worse neuroPat
I understand that it's hard to worry about the others things when your really excited about something and these capabilities are on paper a great step forward for Neuro.
But i think they ended up making Neuro worse in practice. I doesn't dislike them, discord calls and the ability to change titles are awesome.
It's just that for me, sacrificing the responses length and the quality of them is not worth keeping them as they are now

Hopefully in the future she will be able to use them without the flaw that makes them nerf her responses.

coarse gyro
grand imp
tired seal
#

It might be worth trying to change the format of the chill streams, making them a bit more like karaoke streams. Every now and then Neuro would get a longer time slot for solo performances. No chat interaction, no priority messages, just creative time. She'd try to tell a longer story / essay, either related to the previous topics, doing a new DnD-style narrative, or just going full schizo. When she's done, it's chat interaction time, we'd have something new to respond to. It might help to keep the chat from looping her, encouraging sound spam and similar silliness.

pearl coral
#

There isn't an objective best here but human preference data gives you the subjective average "best" from the people who watch which is close enough

fast bramble
#

adding back the essaying while retaining the multi response setups and fancier jokes
we’ll see what vedal’s cooking in the dev stream i guess

raw ferry
raw ferry
last stump
#

Sometimes the longer responses, especially when Neuro and Evil are talking to each other, can result in a conversation that sounds a bit odd. Say Neuro says something about topic A, but then goes on and says something different, (topic B) and possibly unrelated. Then Evil gets her turn and responds first to topic A, and then afterwards to topic B. So it can seem like there are multiple conversation topics being talked about at the same time.

This may not be new feature related, but I feel it is worth noting. They also sometimes go from talking to each other or a human on the stream to talking to chat without missing a beat or indicating that they are changing the target of their words. That can cause confusion on occasion. (The Evil spit scene comes to mind.) Not sure what could be done about that, a human would usually turn to face the person they're addressing. (Or in the case of non-vtuber streamers, you can often tell when they're reading chat, because they'll be glancing off to one side, say at a secondary monitor.)

magic dirge
last stump
magic dirge
tired seal
boreal kettle
#

It actually seems like she's gotten really good at mixing in the sfx at appropriately humorous times, as opposed to initially when it was pretty much just a response to chat requests.

smoky kraken
#

She was really great during the last stream

last stump
#

The benefits of training I imagine.