Need clarifications on the rules about art

[cursive aspen]

i'm saying this because "some" mods are using this blurry part of the rules to choose what is allowed or not using their personal visions.
The last example of this is the last neuro art who got bonked, he was in #1095941852068331560 since the 10th of october btw so it's clear that mods are not even focused/consistent on what they should ban or not.
I'm making this argument because this specifical art (who's "surprisingly" hinting that it's Vedal/a femboy guy despite being in unrelated art) didn't got banned
https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1197972086359064706

this art shows the exact same aspects as the neuro art who got banned :

• exposed tummy
• hand lifting a skirt
• suggestive position
  the only difference being that it's a femboy and not Neuro

So clearer guidelines would be good to know what is allowed or not for EVERY arts

[rocky atlas]

I'm kind of going through some stuff right now, can you hold off the drama aspects of this for like 1 week?

[cobalt veldt]

arent there more staff members that can provide a response?

[rocky atlas]

All right. I tried to help you.

[cobalt veldt]

i dont see whats wrong

you can still help even if its in one week

[hallow field]

I'm sorry for your loss, Cabbage. It's ok if you don't feel like doing any moderating, though we would appreciate it

[somber agate]

Let me ramble a litle bit i guess. I know for certain that there is a rule specifically mentioning that panties aren't allowed and i did see It in full efect yet this piece right here contains it clearly. I don't need the rules to change i think they are fine mostly maybe a litle bit strict the thing i want is just consistency Sorry i'm carrying it over from NN

[cobalt veldt]

everyone can share their opinion

[uneven plover]

Okay I may be controversial but I don't think art rules need more consistency but that neuro arts need their own set of rules.
Some may find neuro suggestive art ok because she is an AI. Some may find it wrong because neuros avatar looks relatively young.

Neuro is an enigma in that aspect

[hallow field]

I think there's a bit of bias towards Vedal's suggestive art, since he's a turtle and all human personas of him people make are not "canon" or whatever.
My point is, while I understand why some arts with Neuro are not ok, I don't understand why we have double standards for pics like this

[uneven plover]

Which is why I believe neuro arts should have some sort of their own guidelines because neuro depiction is much more "morally" complicated.
These guidelines would make neuro arts moderation more consistent while keeping rest of the arts untouched.

[hallow field]

My comment here that quoted the rule 10.1 got blocked so I'll try again.
The server's rules do not say anything about suggestive content, only explicit nsfw and so on. There are also Discord's ToS but I can assure you there's been plenty of Neuro's explicit arts in the past (which would be nuked today in 5 seconds) that are still on and somehow do not break Discord's ToS

[uneven plover]

Again, it comes down to neuro dilemma

Some may find some neuro pieces acceptable while other not. It's not problem with art, it's problem with neuro art

[cursive aspen]

I just want clearer rules so that mods don't have to resorts to their personal visions to moderate arts

[hallow field]

That's where lack of consistency among the mods is from. Some mods say the art is fine, others say it's not and bonk the artist. That's part of the problem for sure

[uneven plover]

Exactly and with neuro art mostly, if not only.

[uneven plover]

I don't think it's really that big of an issue, as I said it comes down mostly if not only to neuro arts in particular. Yes clearer rules would be good, but I still think neuro art should have special guidelines to not limit other arts

You either strike at the issue, or isolate whole area for everyone.

[cobalt veldt]

Yeah, i dont think the guidelines are the problem, but the communicaion between the mods.
We dont know what mods consider suggestive, and we dont know who decides which arts are suggestive.
This keeps happening over and over again, art gets deleted, members complain, "barely" get a proper response

[uneven plover]

And I very much prefer PERSONALLY for neuro arts to have special restrictions rather than now have every artist restricted.

[cobalt veldt]

Do they even explain to the artist what makes their art suggestive?

Havent they noticed the complaints either? This is only mentioning the art problem, theres alot of problems left unsolved

[real hawk]

Seems overly complicated to me, either say suggestive art is allowed or isn't

[oak swallow]

i think after asking clarifications from the mods about it

[oak swallow]

The point i see orangero trying to make is "Separate rules for child-like characters, seperate rules for other characters", i dont find it overcomplicated

[real hawk]

So what if you drew Neuro as an adult?

[uneven plover]

If they made rules for that, they could make that pass I think

[cobalt veldt]

Also for mods/admins out there, please provide your own opinion, not a "after discussing with the staff team" opinion

[uneven plover]

Yes but it is most neutral option. Not obliterating all other arts while getting rid of double standard

[serene ingot]

What’s the point in doing that I’m confused

[cobalt veldt]

it clearly didnt work in the last discussion thread about the rules

[oak swallow]

Good point
I'd say the "depicted as adult" should be enforced in that case, but its up to the mods to decide that

[cobalt veldt]

• is nice to see the individual opinions of the mods

[shut spruce]

it's overcomplicating
i agree with hjalnir, and maybe provide some guidelines on what is suggestive
like CJ said "suggestive pose, spread open legs, barely covering pelvis area skirt which doesn't cover most of the buttocks, open tummy"
these sort of guides can also be very helpful for mods deciding what to allow
we will have nothing to complain about if we clearly know what's allowed and what isn't

[cobalt veldt]

and they can discuss it here, so we can know the thought process of what goes behind the scenes

[uneven plover]

But again it's double standard only towards neuro and neuro alone. In that case something is not ok for neuro, it's not ok for anyone else

[real hawk]

I'm fine with that

[shut spruce]

i mean obviously this should apply to all characters, not just neuro
no reason why other stuff should get a free pass

[uneven plover]

I simply think of all sides

Does it work? Yes, but hurts some artist work in the process.

[real hawk]

I think it's better if it applies to all artists rather than just negatively affecting Neuro artists specifically

[uneven plover]

Well democracy will speak for itself ig

[somber agate]

Oh by the way this art got deleted https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1197972086359064706

[uneven plover]

And I think this discussion may actually lead to solving this issue once and for all

[oak swallow]

admins and Vedal will decide.

[cobalt veldt]

this is horrible

only vedal smh

[uneven plover]

Don't clueless me

[hallow field]

wait which one is it?

[serene ingot]

Vedal will tell them to make a decision

[somber agate]

The femboy one that marswatch posted as example

[oak swallow]

then start a riot about this to get your point through, Vedal and the admins have the authority for what goes in the server

[somber agate]

It seems that at the end it was suggestive

[cobalt veldt]

starting a riot? you mean getting banned?

nah, maybe another day

[uneven plover]

I mean, this thread will make a difference? Surely.

[real hawk]

Vedal doesn't care about the discord though

said as much

[uneven plover]

As painful as it is he doesn't want to deal with this bullshit, and you can't blame him for it really

[oak swallow]

the Elephant thread proved he'll only care about major stuff like this

[hallow field]

Hire a community manager then

[serene ingot]

Seems that’s not gonna happen

[uneven plover]

I'd say if this server survived as many riots as it did, it can survive without one, if changes made to the rules will be sufficient

Because call me crazy but I'm pretty sure most riots came from problem with art moderation.

So if issue will actually get solved once and for all, the server will live happily ever after

[stuck ginkgo]

Or explode (jk)

[oak swallow]

pretty sure its because its the most visible (or biggest ) issue of the moderation

[serene ingot]

The only riots have come from art moderation I don’t think there was anything else

[shut spruce]

there was one about neurotic-neurons when it was extremely off-topic

[uneven plover]

What else is there? Off topic in NN?

I'd say that's a miniscule issue

And even that is better than it was in the past

[lime ravine]

So they basically admitted the double standards

[shut spruce]

also lads try to keep this more on topic and less conversational so mods can actually read this

[uneven plover]

Of whom was art?

[lime ravine]

vedal

femboy vedal i think

[real hawk]

Time to go through all the femboy arts and start a purge

[somber agate]

The art was the femboy one that marswatch chose to represent the thread

[uneven plover]

Ah

[somber agate]

And as i said before it seems that it was suggestive at the end

[oak swallow]

fair point, but i do believe there starts to appear an issue where mods are more extreme with their decisions like striaght up banning people for offenses that shouldnt've given a ban
(i dont want to go into detail because im not that knowledgable about this and i dont want to get bonked)

[lime ravine]

This will be an endless cycle of them boinking a neuro art then people forcing them to boink a random femboy vedal art

[uneven plover]

Yeah pretty much, balancing the scales

[somber agate]

I mean true not the first time this happends

[serene ingot]

I mean people losing bringing it up and complaining about it so they remove it

[lime ravine]

sounds like a moderation problem

[uneven plover]

Meh I'm sure it'll be fine... (for now)

[lime ravine]

if it was boinkable from the start then they should've boinked it from the start

[somber agate]

We should'nt need to bring it up for it to get deleted (talking from experience)

[uneven plover]

Let's consume the elephant first, then we can bother chasing after rabbits

[somber agate]

Oh hi PB

[lime ravine]

she is essaying

[uneven plover]

[serene ingot]

Well there wasn’t an issue with it people just made it an issue because they were unhappy with neuro art getting bonked

[somber agate]

Let her cook

[lime ravine]

I mean if it wasn't an issue then the neuro art they boinked wasn't an issue either

[cursive aspen]

don't try to reverse the roles with making us the bad ones for pointing out inconsistency in the moderation

[uneven plover]

You are right, while I see both sides, it is an inconsistency

[oak swallow]

hey PB can you tell the other mods to discuss your thoughts with the entire community here and not in the #staff-chat? Someone asked it here

[lime ravine]

Yeah, I don't really care about the subject but mod inconsistency is really annoying

[hallow field]

We are allowed to state our dissatisfaction and point out why certain actions of mods were not right. It's not "people want to make a problem for sake of doing so"

[lime ravine]

Its the artists who are suffering not the mods

[final lake]

For me, most of the arts posted were quite ok, but those pushing the rules should have been blurred with spoiler tag or sth
If in doubt, use the tag.

[lime ravine]

imagine drawing for a whole day just to get your art deleted because some mod didn't like it

[hallow field]

I know at least one artist that had exactly this sort of situation here

[somber agate]

I did put a spoiler anyways passed water

[meager citrus]

acknowledged and understood
the rules will be adjusted to keep things more clear cut. more consistent moderation and less room for interpretation

[uneven plover]

Straight to the point

I like that

[lime ravine]

Ain't no way she spent 10 min to write that

[meager citrus]

hey..

[somber agate]

And when can we expect this stuff

[meager citrus]

asap
sooner than the other threads

[uneven plover]

Well a lot of people were watching, word of a difference and this could've ended in a riot

[meager citrus]

if thats okay, i will close the thread now

[stuck ginkgo]

Nyooo

[serene ingot]

Nuro

[hallow field]

thanks for help PB, we appreciate it

[oak swallow]

any objections to close the thread?

[real hawk]

neur

[hallow field]

I'm fine personally

[stuck ginkgo]

I love Neuro
I love Evil

[uneven plover]

We got through so I think it's fine

[somber agate]

At the end bnnuy

[meager citrus]