Keeping #livestream-chat open at all times:

[gilded matrix]

Positives:

• No dumping shitload of people into #neurotic-neurons after stream ends
• People can discuss the raided streamer on #livestream-chat and discuss Neuro stream on #neurotic-neurons at the same time without spamming each other
• People can spam late how much they want without disrupting the Neuro discussions
• No need to have a mod camping exact time to %unlock and %lock the channel

Cons:

• No classic endposts
• One more channel to moderate at all times

I imagine it to be like ttv offline chat, cosy and funny

[grizzled prawn]

Personally, I'd delay the time after #livestream-chat is closed, since it's inevitable for it to derail off-topic, as we can see by other channels

[gilded matrix]

That would be also good, but the question is how long do you delay? Some people would like to chat about raided streamer untill they end the stream

[waxen sorrel]

hmm i do wonder why you don't use offline twitch chat though instead? or actual twitch chat for when vedal/neuro are on another stream

[gilded matrix]

Having 1 window with stream, chatterino and popout Neuro offlinechat and Neurocord, doesnt really sound practical. So much chatting

[barren shard]

this wouldnt be a good idea

[grizzled prawn]

Good counterargument, since depending on streamer the engagement would vary and perhaps after an hour or two, an interesting discussion would occur about stream or raided streamer, so another controversy could emerge there

Basically: #livestream-chat closed too early = 1984; it'd be hard to make the constant closure time

[gilded matrix]

Honestly I also dont see an issue in #livestream-chat derailing into offtopic, like if it will bring engagement from chatters more than current #general-network id say its a win

[muted spire]

What about talking about raids? You can't do that in offline chat

[waxen sorrel]

just talk in the chat of the person u raided?

[muted spire]

I like this idea but I am afraid it will turn into #swarm-2

[grizzled prawn]

I think It could bring the same discussion as with #general-network moving to #neurotic-neurons but those two moving into #livestream-chat leaving the rest empty, while being a mess itself

[gilded matrix]

People like to talk about the streamer here, and thats especially noticeable when streamer is cute, has a nice model, has a timer/bar, is anny

[gilded matrix]

The best option would be to lock the channel after raided streamer ends their stream, but that would require a mod to also watch the streamer which is not always guaranteed

[scenic valley]

id say an hour is sufficient enough time, most people would be through by then

[gilded matrix]

And it also leaves the question of time before the stream, people accumulating in #neurotic-neurons spamming because the stream also disrupts conversations

[waxen sorrel]

thats true some of them are very cute there is lots to say

i'm just saying. general network is quite dead, and you guys need a place to go when talking about raided streamers....

[grizzled prawn]

I'd say 15 minutes before in theory if needed. I wonder if this change could make people wait for #livestream-chat to be opened on neurotic neurons anyway

[gilded matrix]

Just make a channel for people waiting for #livestream-chat to open so they can wait for Neuro to be online

[quartz nacelle]

idk, when we had a waiting room it looked like a nightmare to moderate

[stray yarrow]

that is a risk, but also how can we know before we try it?
people already talk in offline-chat, i don't see why this wouldn't become an extension of that

[gilded matrix]

I think the best benchmark for this suggestion would be to leave #livestream-chat open at all times during subathon and see how people will behave

[grizzled prawn]

Since it would work as experiment, I approve

[stray yarrow]

for now though
I really don't see why we don't open livestream-chat like 10 minutes before the stream so all the "stream " chat goes there instead of other channels

[eager path]

then we just get "livestream chat open? " 20 minutes before the stream

[grizzled prawn]

The only thing that would not be tested is how #livestream-chat would behave during raids and how much time would it take until it derailed

[waxen sorrel]

I don't really see why we should encourage spam which is what this would do in my opinion, i think all conversations that would not otherwise fit could go in neurotic could go in general

[gilded matrix]

Post might be irrelevant
#1175160594068946984 message

[eager path]

im with pb, while stream is offline it'd literally be a general 3 2

you cant hope for livestream chat to be on any kind of topic while stream is offline since the stream is supposed to be the topic

so im unclear as to why any conversation happening during those times wouldn't fit into either general or neurotic

spam should go in swarm and not be in either

[stray yarrow]

yeah, feel like this issue would be naturally solved by also solving the neurotic-neurons issue
non neuro -> general
neuro -> neurotics
but also we would have to decide whether or not anny is considered a neuro topic

[eager path]

there's certainly a bubble of characters around neuro that are so closely intertwined with her de facto lore at this point that you kinda have to consider them in the same universe

anny is one of those i believe

but i understand the concern that not all conversation about anny is necessarily anny-related

nevertheless, if you want to draw the line clearly it has to run along a boundary that is easy for people to understand
and while this isnt always possible, i do think for the topic rule it would be easiest for moderation and the least inconvenience to people who want to discuss anny-neuro stuff to just allow discussion of people in the "neuro universe" in good faith that people won't go wildly into the bushes with the topic ^^

perhaps that's naive in which case by all means poke holes in it, but i do personally think this is a good middleground

[gilded matrix]

I think there is also an important point that not everyone who watches neuro wants to talk about anny, because they dont watch her and during anny's stream #neurotic-neurons becomes anny's livestream chat

[muted spire]

The point of keeping livestream chat open is that we don't have to think about when to open it and when to close it

And also to take off pressure from neurotic

Leaving it how it is now is not ok I think because whenever there is an influx of people they just go to neurotic instead

So why not open Livestream chat to give them a place for what?

Where the star requirement is 30 as well to accommodate for larger amounts of people

[muted spire]

But this a good point so the only logical solution is keeping it open all the time IMO

[eager path]

leaving livestream chat open and allowing people to talk about random streams is not a fix

the moment people try to talk about two streams at once, livestream chat is useless

ideally people would only actively talk about streams on vedal's channel, turtle safaris or raids

outside of that maybe sharing a clip or something but no need for a whole audience to discuss it here and flood a channel, 99% of the time other streamers have their own discords and twitch chats

if #neurotic-neurons becomes anny live chat for some reason other than sharing a neuro moment from the stream then i dont think it has a place there, but there isnt a staff policy on that as far as i am aware

[eager path]

it creates issues because it is just another general chat while stream is offline

[distant fable]

I only really see it during anny's reddit reviews if people in chat have art up and vedal collabs personally. very very rarely camila comes up

~~err didn't mean to quote that but whatever ~~

[eager path]

(sorry for ping btw alex meant to turn off)

[muted spire]

1. If it's a problem then we can talk about it as well we don't have to rule out this option entirely.
2. How much of an issue do you actually think this well be? If they make it general 2 do we need to care?

[stray yarrow]

maybe make a staff policy to inform people not to do so?
it can become really unhealthy for both Neuro's and Anny's community to always assume they're related
so I think it's important to tell people off in such instances

[eager path]

that's certainly an option if it is an issue
can you link some instances of it cropping up for me to look over?

though i'll ask that after you do we leave it here for now, it feels kinda tangential to the op

[distant fable]

i think that already peaked when she came back and has died back tbh

[eager path]

true, im sorry if it came off as me shooting down an idea, my intention was more to highlight some anxieties i have about adopting it as a solution but i think my wording gave way to sounding dismissive

but this has never been highlighted as a live chat issue in the past despite it always being this way

which i find odd

[muted spire]

I mean I highlighted it like a few days ago

[eager path]

well no i mean

the issue of livechat overflow at all

its always been locked after streams and nobody ever raised issue in the past (to the best of my knowledge), i do wonder what changed

[muted spire]

Neurotic neurons overflow
But people upset with current state of neurotic means Livestream chat is tangentially affected

[stray yarrow]

I unfortunately can't recall exact instances, but I know it has happened a few times
recently it has also cropped up on anny's stream where people ask about neuro randomly, though that's outside our field
and ye got nothing more to say on this topic so moving on

[gilded matrix]

I made this suggestion post based on this
#1175160594068946984 message

[eager path]

i understand that much but i more mean is the livestream overflow into neurotic an issue that people genuinely want addressed

ideally the overflow doesnt last beyond the raid

and id imagine the overflow is neuro related, at least about as much as neurotic itself is

plus i dont think every single person in livechat overflows this way, some probably depart right?

[muted spire]

N, it would be about the raided streamer and their stream

[gilded matrix]

Overflow from raids is never Neuro related

[eager path]

i see

well thats your problem then

somehow this is a really controversial take, but i think other streamers have their own discords and twitch chats that people should use to talk about them instead of ours

of course theres exceptions where they overlap with neuro

but there shouldnt be exceptions where they dont

[muted spire]

Okay but what do you want us to do about it?

Do we enforce not talking about raided streamers or what?

[eager path]

they can still do it on twitch chat even if we were to lock the live chat in discord

so maybe?

if they're there for the raid then they obviously have twitch open already

[muted spire]

I don't know what to think about that

[gilded matrix]

Sometimes its not possible to chat on raided streamer chat when they activate antiraid measures as "must be follower for x time" also some things are not to be discussed on the streamer's chat

[eager path]

that's the streamer's fault not ours

[barren shard]

Heres what i have to say:

Keeping #livestream-chat wont be a good idea as its for livestreams, not for talking about neuro.
If theres a raid, either keep #livestream-chat open for a while or let #neurotic-neurons talk about it for a while.
Only topics about stream are Vedal with collabers, Neuro with collabers and the normal streams

[gilded matrix]

But people still want to

[eager path]

then join their discord, why insist on doing it here

like if its not neuro related

and you're just talking about their stream

then..?

[muted spire]

Shiro I think your perspective is flawed, you cannot give this argument here, this is what you tell them then not us now

[eager path]

oh ok sorry for giving my perspective

[stray yarrow]

if the flooding is directed to general-chat instead of neurotic neurons i think it's fine
the raid chat very rarely is actually neuro related which i think is what people have issue with

though after streams people flood to where they are most comfortable so NN will naturally get flooded
^this answers Shiro's "then join their discord"

[muted spire]

Nooo that's not what I meant

[muted spire]

I meant if you are saying "then join their discord, why insist on doing it here" now you imply that we should enforce it

[gilded matrix]

Well as a raider I dont want to join a streamers discord to chat about their model, etc for 10-30 minutes only to forget about them later

[barren shard]

tbh people dont care much about raids, they participate and leave, talking about them in neurotics would be good enough, theres no need to keep livestream chat open or to create any new chats

[stray yarrow]

it's frustrating for those that didn't raid, or want to talk about the actual neuro stream instead of the raid

[barren shard]

if you want to talk about the recent neuro stream, neurotics is literally made for that

[gilded matrix]

But that is against what https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1175160594068946984 is about

[distant fable]

not allowing talk of other streamers at all is pretty typical in discords i'm in tbh though I do think some really wholesome moments have come out of it being active here too. Like when chat was all getting more people to raid the girl a few weeks ago and pay for her cats surgery.

fine either way imo.

[barren shard]

that thread is for the state of the server not a whole channel

imo topic rule should be more enforced but many people disagree

[gilded matrix]

The thread is literally about Neurotic going back to being about Neuro, not about everything in existance

[barren shard]

The way things were handled before was very good, semi-nsfw being censored & neurotics being enforced

[gilded matrix]

Also telling people to join streamer's discord would be against the rules of Neurocord

[light cedar]

I'd say the same about linking the raided streamer in the channel but as you see, context always matters

[gilded matrix]

Fair point

[hidden quarry]

I wouldn't say always open, but I like the idea of it being open longer and for turtle-safari streams. A con to this is more work for mods though.

[muted spire]

yeah it will be open for turtle safari collabs

#1175160594068946984 message

[hidden quarry]

Wish you mods luck in whatever you people decide for both this and the other discussion.

[muted spire]

this conversation is still open

i still would want to hear more opinions

[hidden quarry]

I don't think I have much more to add though so I'll let others put in their 2 cents.

[scenic valley]

I think just opening it whenever vedals live and maybe like 20 minutes after stream ends works. (That includes safari)
Previously I said an hour but honestly even that seems too long to me ngl, the vast majority of people are probably gonna be done with it in under 20 minutes, unless it’s a situation like the blind girl, in which case mod discretion for closing ig

[dreamy bluff]

if they wnat to continue the talk, mod can redirected them to gen-chat. that way gen-chat have new chatter + more populated too

[jade forum]

I think we should have a second livestream chat and have them both open at the same time just to chaos even more chaos

I agree with Redston.

[spare juniper]

If we were to keep livestream chat open all the time, it would lose its charm (which actually pulled me to Neurocord from Twitch chat in the first place)
Having it open after the stream (for the raid) will do the same + mods will be practically moderating for another channel with a completely different audience and rules (all the time).
Having it being redirected to #general-network for raid and #neurotic-neurons for post-stream doesn't sound bad, but people need to be accustomed to it, this will require some moderation input for sure.

Raids are very unpredictable. They can pull our attention for a very long time in one case, but die down in no time in other cases. #general-network is the perfect candidate for this kind of overflow.

[muted spire]

Yeah, I guess that makes sense

[muted spire]

What about what redston said? Closing it a bit of time later after the stream ends

[spare juniper]

Well, with current culture (spam before the stream ends + bocchi/wholesome posts) it is not possible.

Also, #livestream-chat when stream is not live contradicts its purpose.

[barren shard]

keeping #livestream-chat open would potentially generate a problem:
making it more active than NN and gen, leaving the current situation even worse

[muted spire]

Then how do you think we should combat the influx of people talking about the raided streamer in #neurotic-neurons after Neuro's stream ends?

[spare juniper]

Redirect them to #general-network

[muted spire]

That is what I assumed you would say

Alright, we can try this then

Starting with the next stream

@gilded matrix I believe this solution fixes most of the problems you mentioned, right?

[gilded matrix]

[muted spire]

Alright, this is a solution we can implement immediately

Starting next stream we will redirect people to #general-network to discuss about the raided streamer after Neuro's or Vedal's stream ends

[rotund peak]

"livestream chat open"
Comments will die when it's normalized as how things work.

I feel like adding a thread in the livestream chat to direct people, if we want to keep strictly Vedal's streams in the main channel would be a way to go about it?

[barren shard]

it made general worse

oh wait nvm i was in the wrong chat

[rotund peak]

I understand that moderators would need to be moderating another channel, but I mean.

Tbh, there's plenty of bloat channels that aren't really needed.

a designated live-stream and raid stream area is one of the more functionally practical channels to have seperated from general/other topic channels, rather than merged, meanwhile we have non-functional channels like Swarm, and other channels that aren't necessary, (granted take less moderation).

I dunno. I didn't see an issue with either general, or neurotic Neurons talking about the raid stuff, but if people are complaining it's disruptive, moving it to another channel isn't much better?

[spare juniper]

#neurotic-neurons talking about the raid literally doesn't make any sense, it is technically for Neuro and stuff.

Having #livestream-chat opened for a raid doesn't make any sense either - the stream is already over.

[rotund peak]

It makes more sense than any other channel, tbh. General is obvious "dump here" grounds, but it doesn't really make sense to direct a specific topic to be talked about there, when it's general chat, and for completely unrelated things from the communty/server overall.

Livestream-chat being given threads for the raids, where the traffic can easily move into, makes plenty of sense lol
It is still a livestream, that people were directly sent too.

[muted spire]

no one uses threads

[spare juniper]

It is not a Neuro livestream.

Also ^

[muted spire]

there's like 1% of people who know about them

[spare juniper]

Threads are absolutely useless.

[rotund peak]

They can learn and be made too, by staff.

Staff makes one, and directs people into it.

[spare juniper]

I don't see any benefit in adding more "channels", when we already have a general channel.

[rotund peak]

Why have other channels at all, if general can do it all?

It's because there's a large amount of people wanting o discuss a specify topic

[muted spire]

i don't understand your argument hiddenrealm

we are basically doing what you are saying, but redirecting people to #general-network instead of a thread

[spare juniper]

Sorry, but you're contradicting yourself. You're saying that the raid theme is "completely unrelated", but then suggest to add a thread to livestream chat or have livestream chat opened for a stream.

[barren shard]

General is for any topic, this includes everything and neuro, which sometimes can be a channel hard to talk about neuro, thats why #neurotic-neurons which is only for neuro (was)

[rotund peak]

I never said it was completely unrelated? It's also horribly difficult to talk with a 30 second timer to two staff that I think are immune to slowchat lol

[rotund peak]

Aye. I'm saying the reason to use other channels It's when there's a large demand to descuse a specific thing, and as such, things like Neurotic Neurons, livestream (and raids) are subjects of high volume that makes sense to have designated channels.

The point being just saying "We have a general channel" to dismiss the idea, misses the point.

[barren shard]

the general channel is for every topic, talking about neuro can sometimes be hard as theres too much going on, and since the server is about neuro its completely normal to have a channel for neuro and other for general topics, livestream chat is a channel for "reactions" about the stream, and because theres many people talking about the stream, we wouldnt want general & neurotics to be spammed, again being hard to focus on a topic

[rotund peak]

And that's the same reasoning for why you would keep raids to a specific area so the other channels aren't spammed by it

You make art channels because there's demand for it, a designated neuro channel because there's demand for it, a livestream channel because there is demand for it.

Yes, it's a given there would be demand to talk about neuro, in a neuro server but it doesn't change why you would make a channel for it lol. The channel didn't used to exist, iirc. If there's enough demand for talking about the raids that it's even an issue, then maybe keeping it to a channel designated for it would help. Still don't see why it wouldn't. o,o

Dunno though lol. I think all this just discourage people to give a shit/ support the person being raided lol

[barren shard]

theres no "demand", channels are created for specific topics, do you see any messages on #日本全般-jp-gen ?
#1095941852068331560 was created so people can share their art easily and not spam other channels

[stray yarrow]

okay, but I personally don't quite understand what's the issue with sending it to general chat?
I'm sure gen chatters won't mind as it's already chaotic there

why go for an inconvenient solution when a convenient one exists?
people never complained about there not being a raid chat outlet, there's always been NN and people were satisfied
the only minor issue was NN getting flooded with non neuro stuff

[rotund peak]

It's not even inconvenient lol. It's convenient for people that want to participate with the raid and discuss it to not get boited into an unrelated channel that might've already had conversations going on about other stuff lol

[ionic lily]

Rename general chat to off-topic and create a new general chat

[rotund peak]

NN can honestly be entierly removed from the convo lol, I have no issue with keeping it off there because it's soecific for Neuro stuff lol. I understand that

But yeah, gotta work, clearly my thoughts are dismissed xD

[spare juniper]

My personal thoughts, from the perspective of a person who implemented one of the changes (raids):
I think it turned out perfectly fine. Neurons were freely chatting about Neuro, while gen chat were discussing the raid.
Today was even a day when neurons were for an extended period of time, while gen chat was chatting away on any topic they desire.
That's a good outcome.