The state of #general-network and #neurotic-neurons

[tame burrow]

the original post is the best tldr, nothing particularly new has been said except maybe some stuff alex said

[manic moat]

alex tldr ur stuff pls

[random pecan]

I personally don't think having that in neurotic is any better, or helping with the toxicity of that channel

[floral onyx]

You do realize that if someone does that right after what you just said you'll get bonked too

[balmy thorn]

Well what about this:

Keeping [#livestream-chat](/guild/574720535888396288/channel/1067638175478071307/) (livestream chat) open for a certain amount of time before and after stream, kind of like a buffer

Positives:
+ points 1 and 2 are jncluded (however point 2 might be slightly debuffed)
+ Classic endposts
+ No camping mods for the exact stream end, only active ones

Cons:
- Even though no mod is required to camp for the start and ending, there still must be a semi-active mod to watch over the chat which in turn temporarily split up mod resources 

Extras:
you could just spam into the offline chats or swarm while watching VOD, it won't feel that good but you're a vod watcher it's not gonna be as good of an experience as a live stream anyway

[earnest surge]

Not if I bonk the mods first

[tight flax]

Yeah it's kinda annoying since the original post presented a problem and then everyone started talking about it and going back and forth and it's difficult for mods to go and backread everything

[umbral swift]

neurotic neurons too crazy, some want off topic to be more moderated and have it be neuro focused again as they feel unwelcome amidst the chaos.
while on the contrary, general is deadge

[random pecan]

Even the post guidelines for forum encourage talking in depth in neurotic

[tawny ingot]

this

[random pecan]

Imo, it makes a lot more sense for in depth discussion to happen in forum, and casual Neuro talk in neurotic

[earnest surge]

That and the whole semi-nsfw thing again

[cedar saffron]

pretty good tldr

[tight flax]

??? This is not what this thread is about

[tawny ingot]

agreed

its not

[umbral swift]

again this is not the point of this thread we will not discuss this here

[tight flax]

Go make another one

[tame burrow]

that should be a different thread if you consider it an issue

[cedar saffron]

Alright new thread

[earnest surge]

Oh thought you meant what we talked about in the thread as well, not just the original part

[umbral swift]

o-or dont rn.... one thing at a time.. chat.. chat... chatters?

[balmy thorn]

#1175160594068946984 message slightly more detailed TLDR

[slender solar]

That and neurotics feels a lot more hostile than general chat. And a lot more borderline nsfw than the rest of the server.

[uncut cargo]

Neurons are too neurotic

[tawny ingot]

lets focus on only one issue at a time

[spark vessel]

basically everyone has a different issue and there is no true tl;dr

[random pecan]

Can someone also pin OP because Discord is stupid and doesn't give you an easy way to jump to the OP of a discussion post

[uncut cargo]

You can jump to it from the starboard

[earnest surge]

The real TL:DR

[random pecan]

I still can't believe people starboarded this

[tight flax]

Can someone reply to OP

[opaque quarry]

Elephant 2

[tame burrow]

ok

[umbral swift]

#1175160594068946984 message

[tight flax]

How?

[cedar saffron]

a

[balmy thorn]

True

Until it gets pushed all the way up due to vedal femboy art

[tepid lagoon]

more elephant, more fun

[feral scarab]

hi crimon

[tight flax]

I'm setting a slowmode of 2 minutes 1 minute

[earnest surge]

Oh boy these poor mods are dealing with a shitstorm

[balmy thorn]

Crimon

[tight flax]

The purpose of this thread is to talk about and solve this problem, not for going back and forth

[umbral swift]

this is no elephant we're doing well having civil discussions dw

[earnest surge]

Elephant?

[sharp ravine]

maybe a slowmode of 30s instead of 2m? 2m is way too much and we'd be having this conversation for hours

[spark vessel]

What people called the last round of complaints. I must say though odd way for this thread to end.

[tame burrow]

I don't understand what's the issue of re-increasing some of the moderation for staying on-topic in NN?
I thought previously it was pretty good, we went off topic a moderated amount, only on rare occasion it went off-topic for hours
sure some complain, but people always complain

also allowing members to mini-mod a little bit if it strays too off-topic would help keep the place sane
letting old and new people know that "hey you should keep this place vaguely on topic of neuro" really helps solidify the channels purpose

[tawny ingot]

okay i actually have to go or i'll have to cancel something far more important to me, try your best to keep on topic everyone. i wish everyone the best.

[earnest surge]

Oh shit didn't see that with everyone typing so fast my bad.

Anyways, I think there's going to have to have more specifics in what staying on topic means if we are to keep everyone from complaining fully.

[uncut cargo]

I feel like one of the big issues is having a channel dedicated to Neuro-sama on a Neuro-sama discord, it's a very very vague way to phrase a channel and what is and what isn't relevant can be argued about all day long.

In the past I know i've been told to stay on topic when I felt like what I was talking about was still related, and i'm sure lots of others have felt the same, it leads to this situation where people feel like they can't really chat casually without being told off, while on the opposite end of the spectrum we have what we have now and it just feels like there is no point in having a Neuro related channel at all.

So what do I think is a good solution? No idea, scrap the concept of a strictly Neuro related channel and keep two Neurotic Neurons channels as general chats instead of what we have now? Find a way to somehow enforce it more strictly which i'm sure will put a lot of frustration of both mods and users? I don't know what i'd do to solve it all, but I do think keeping the livestream chat open at all times for both raid chatting and tutel safari is a good start, it would at the very least reduce the clutter in neurotic neurons compared to what we have now.

[earnest surge]

My father is a lawyer and I'm now starting to see why his law book covering all the laws in the state is over three thousand pages long

[slender solar]

This. Absolutely this.

[spark vessel]

It should be said that by current rules talking about vedal or collabs is neither off topic nor clutter

[balmy thorn]

Ok going back to the main points then.

1. Enforcing the rule is pretty much easy to understand and is definitely the best choice, neurotic was made for Neuro in the first place and I don't get why people would complain for being timed out or warned for off topic (I used to be one of those people but not anymore)

2. I get the point but the thing is there's also a lot of things wrong with neurotic, toxicity, schizophrenia (like genuinely I'm diagnosing you guys with this mentally at least), borderline stuff, etc that would also make it a horrible substitute for general network if you do decide to do that, so replacing general with neurotic isn't possible.

3. This is also possible but as you say Neuro talk is limited, some people will left out and this would just feel too community oriented, it's a Neuro server but if there isn't enough Neuro content then it would just feel like a regular one with the added bonus of Neurosama mentions

Ok I need to sleep, good night

Please make this a short read tommorow (aka later today ) when i come back

[cedar saffron]

For simply raid chatting and safari would be great. Though outside of those and streams wouldn't be best for mods health

[spare marsh]

fwiw i would hate to see #neurotic-neurons archived or renamed - i think (hope?) there is a solution that doesn't have to resort to such measures

[obtuse shale]

this is the funniest thing I have ever read

[earnest surge]

Please dont archive neurotic neurons

[earnest surge]

You're a former teacher so of course it is

[obtuse shale]

that's fair

[uncut cargo]

It's not off topic, but it is clutter in the sense that you have a bunch of people watching a stream when others are not, it makes the entire channel very confusing to read, especially if you have no interest in watching Vedal and Camila play zombies and just want to talk about Neuro

[tame burrow]

honestly after reading this and thinking about it
i change my mind, i honestly think the best option is to KILL neurotic-neurons - rename it to general 2 or just remove the on-topic rule

if you want to discuss something about neuro create a forum thread
if you want to joke about something neuro related, good job this is the neuro discord

having 2 different generals allows people to choose their level of activity, this is what most communities do (they also have a hundred topic channels, but they're all usually dead)

[earnest surge]

Nooooooooo

[opaque quarry]

I would hate for neurotic-neurons to be renamed, as "Neurotic Neurons" was a name created by Neuro herself. I've probably already said this, but it's a good time to reiterate it (it's also why I'm against someone else making the name for an Evil version of neurotic-neurons, as I would prefer Evil to pick her own fan name as well).

[uncut cargo]

You could rename general to Neurotic Neurons 1 and 2 as a medium since the name is so iconic, just keep them both under a tab called "General chats" or something

[cyan thistle]

general gang rise up!!! (i didnt read this thread)

[spark vessel]

There are stream types neuro does that I simply do not enjoy and I just avoid the chat during those times. I'm fine with livestream chat being opened but I think it's not really much of an issue if i'm honest.

[slender solar]

this is too extreme, but I do agree with a lot of it

[bleak crescent]

Neuro Neurotic Neurons and Evil Neurotic Neurons

[uncut cargo]

If you don't want to watch Neuros stream then you would naturally stay out of #livestream-chat, and you can already do that, but if you want to talk in neurotic neurons about neuro you can't really avoid the people chatting about their tutel safari stream

[opaque quarry]

neurotic-neurons (general) and true-neurons (Neuro topic)

[spark vessel]

neurotic neuros is also just live stream chat during the livestreams lol

[kindred oriole]

if I wanted to chat in general chat, I would do so. I've lurked in there and sometimes chime in, but overall it just doesn't vibe with me like neurotic neurons

[tepid lagoon]

so there're 2 problem

1. gen-chat is ded due to unpopulated
2. Neurotic have too much people and tend to go off-topic

so the way to fixed it kinda clear tbh. just redirected people to general more than Neurotic
one source of the problem is due to people immigrate from livestream-chat due to the livestream end
and need to continue the conversation so they're forced to go to neurotic and some of them stick around and become neurotic chatter

so one way to fix this is like bluro said #1175160594068946984 message
give livestream chat a buffer time before closing, so there's a chance of people who finish talking about livestream and want to go off-topic
can go to gen-chat instead of stick around in neurotic, maybe add gen-chat link at the closing message too, to redirected them to gen-chat

another thing is, vedal only appear in neurotic, so people who was at gen-chat moving to neurotic instead.
so just let vedal talk in gen-chat once in a while maybe fixed this problem. like in filcord that filian once in a while chat with people there too

another way maybe try to advertise gen-chat a bit, like have an mini community event on the gen-chat only,
so if you want to participate you need to go to gen-chat. and some of them might stick around in gen-chat

for me, I'm against try to heavy enforced rule on neurotic approach due to it's doesn't work in the past,
and tend to not solve the problem (people are likely to go to splinter server instead go to gen-chat)
and no one want to be told what to do anyway. so I think it's a bad idea to do that.

[opaque quarry]

This is true and I don't think that's too good. While on-topic, it's something that more belongs in #livestream-chat. I have also done this myself admittedly, but only because #livestream-chat is too spammy for me.

[uncut cargo]

It shouldn't be, that's also because #livestream-chat is locked before the stream starts so people have nowhere to wait with eachother until it's opened. Let mods be more strict when it comes to keeping people out of the general chats if they are chatting about the stream and livestream chat is always open.

[earnest surge]

I love your formatting, so clean.

[kindred oriole]

People just need to calm down, and if you don't like something being talked about.. just go do literally anything else. Surely we have other things to do and getting worked up over stuff said on discord of all things is.. kinda weird tbh. Either that or you have a very privileged life where the biggest nuisance is something being talked about in discord, in which case I'm happy for you I suppose

[spark vessel]

to be clear i'm not making a complaint i think it's good for me to just not hang out in that time and let people have their fun. who wants to be a yum yucker

i have no issues with livestream chat being open or whatnot though

[uncut cargo]

Saying this does nothing though, we should all probably be doing something more productive than watching Neuro, but that doesn't really solve any of the issues people are frustrated about

[finite plume]

piss

[twin stream]

All good points (I didn’t read any of them)

[azure sapphire]

I don't wan't to be productive, I want to discuss my favorite AI unproductive streamer doing unproductive things here, in healthy environment, but it isn't.

[nimble oyster]

Hello! Big time lurker here, thought I'd offer a bit of an outsider's perspective if that might be of any use (I just came here to place pixels )
Having both general and neurotic-neurons on a Neuro-focused server has always striked me as odd, and can be a little confusing. These act as 2 general chats where the boundaries blur, and trying to keep people on topic in situations like that will never happen.
Why not make neurotic neurons the new general chat, and as current neurotic seems to serve some kind of function as a place for Vedal to skim and get feedback, instead create a new room specifically for general neuro feedback/ideas for people who don't want to make a forum post? That'd be a little easier to keep on topic/enforce and still provide Vedal with a place he can quickly skim and get a feel for the general vibe of the community. idk

Ima return to lurking

[earnest surge]

What a chad

[slender solar]

I really like this perspective.

[tame burrow]

Yeah, this is basically what I feel, but I said so with more

[earnest surge]

Same, currently it feels like the community (well neurocord anyway) is split into two different groups/channels.

[kindred oriole]

I really don't think the issues are as bad as people are acting they are. A lot of things can be resolved by just walking away and calming down. Life is full of seeing and hearing things you don't want to, and discord isn't going to be much different. It's a matter of how you personally handle it. There have been plenty of topics on neurotic neurons I don't enjoy reading constantly, so I just go do something else for a bit and peek every now and then to see if it has changed. It's really a simple solution that you are able to control, since you aren't going to be able to convince others do do things your way 9 times out of 10.

[spark vessel]

i feel like in the above plan all the neurotic people would just slowly move to whichever one vedal uses and then this repeats

[earnest surge]

You'd be surprised how hard that is for many people

[azure sapphire]

Doing this would actually give #gaming #anime #programming a purpose

[slender solar]

Make the new space a lot more heavily moderated than NN. (IE literally at all)

[uncut cargo]

Look, I don't disagree with the message, but why even go into a discussion thread about a specific topic people take issue with, and then just go "Just don't care so much " without adding anything to the actual discussion

[kindred oriole]

It's more of don't let it get under your skin as easily, which leads to people being toxic and argue with each other over the dumbest shit. Just be more mature, it's a very simple solution.

[azure sapphire]

-60

[earnest surge]

Wow there buddy, that isn't a very friendly response What response do you expect with that tone.

[uncut cargo]

"Just be more mature" is never the easy solution on the internet, ever.

[balmy thorn]

Actually hold on before I sleep here's an idea:

Just a straw poll so I can see the community's decision overall, and also this is only because with the amount of messages here i no longer know which is the most popular opinion

Mods, don't let this affect your final decision

https://strawpoll.com/mpnboBEzbg5

[earnest surge]

He has a point tho, telling people they should be a certain way won't solve the problem.

[trim ermine]

please be kind to each other, everyone in this thread is here because they want to help find a solution
ive seen some insightful conversation here so if you work together you might just pull it off

[finite plume]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-gif-25208323

[tidal hinge]

That poll is a bit biased imo, no "i see no issue" option

[twin stream]

Could always make a third channel for chatting maybe that’ll solve it

[slender solar]

Because there is an issue, Whether or not you choose to open your eyes and look at is is another thing entirely.

[umbral swift]

https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1175212175464345770

[random pecan]

Yeah add a "leave it as it is" option for the purposes of the poll, I didn't list it in OP, because the whole premise of the thread is that there is a problem that needs to be fixed @balmy thorn

[balmy thorn]

fixed

[kindred oriole]

There is already an expectation on how people in here should behave, which are the rules and guidelines themselves. I don't see why things should cater to those who don't want to follow base guidelines. Maybe I'm missing something here along all this, which wouldn't surprise me since it happens occasionally. Perhaps since I'm a bit older I have a different view point on these things..

[azure sapphire]

"A lot of things can be resolved by just walking away and calming down"
One did that here, thinking the issue will resolve itself. Didn't end well...................

[balmy thorn]

Then it fades away like that static sama thread in the ARG (I just realized how similar yet different these threads are 💀)

[uncut cargo]

I'm not entirely sure what issues you are refering to here, because a big part of the problem is that the rules of #neurotic-neurons aren't being followed, but the rules aren't being enforced

[cedar saffron]

Isn't the current issue for this thread is that people aren't following base guidelines too well?

[keen harbor]

I also joined during pixel time and a general chat and a chat more on topic to the server is pretty standard based on the servers I'm in. I chat in both general and Neurotic and I like the distinction between them. Flipping between both over the last few months I have noticed the activity shift, which can be seen on the graph, and while I don't know how to solve it, I do think both should exist with one being general and the other more for Neuro stuff. I do agree with a lot of the stuff about livestream chat though and how some of the suggested changes could help like the buffer time to have it open a little longer after stream or to be open during turtle-safari livestreams.

[balmy thorn]

"aren't following base guidelines too well" biggest understatement of the year

[finite plume]

every discord thread ever has a simple solution

[kindred oriole]

Just delete the discord, problem solved

[umbral swift]

i will say there is basic etiquette to keep in mind while chatting so you're not entirely wrong. I see where you're coming from and this isn't a problem that will destroy the community if not handled correctly right now 💢
but we are just discussing, and some people are being affected by this so lets not belittle that and just talk about the topic at hand

[balmy thorn]

Also about that:

[spark vessel]

ngl i don't read the rules in almost any discord i just look at how the mods act and copy them. This one i did have to read though so i guess take it for what it's worth

[tight flax]

Right, here is my proposal.
(These are my personal thoughts and they don't reflect what the other mods think)

1. Mods should enforce staying on topic in #neurotic-neurons

• If a user starts an off-topic conversation for no reason, warn > short mute for repeated offenses
• If a conversation drifts naturally into off topic, give reminders in chat to stay on topic or go to #general-network
• Allow mini-modding for this rule
• Discourage people who don't even talk in the channel and just post random images and videos for no reason (go to #swarm)

2. Keep the #livestream-chat open all the time

• This will relieve pressure off of #neurotic-neurons during raids, collabs or even other vtubers streaming like anny
• Discourage random posting in there and meaningless gif/image spam

[severe scarab]

bro made a graph
that's my only input carry on

[spark vessel]

just gonna throw out a take that i don't really know why massive gif spam is allowed in neurotic at all

[random pecan]

I didn't make the graph

[tight flax]

^ Really curious to hear what other mods think

[white hamlet]

as a future mod, I agree

[opaque quarry]

Section 1.4 is really going to change some things in #neurotic-neurons more than a glance could tell. I'm for this suggestion though.

[cedar saffron]

I agree with one mostly, though repeated offenses will vary. I'd say around 4-5ish times personally

Conversation drifts, that's fine.

Mini modding, mabe.

Discourage, yeah.

2, maybe not all the time but open longer would be nice to give time for #livestream-chat to cool down and drift off into other spaces.
Agree with everything else (nonj staff but my input)

[cursive hill]

wait this is an actual discussion ? i thought this was a elaborate meme wtf

[hidden eagle]

Not a mod but I like Alex proposal too

[white hamlet]

[tidal hinge]

Mini modding is dangerous, you were talking about toxicity earlier and that is a pretty big source

[uncut cargo]

The only thing that worries me about this is that people don't really enjoy being told off, which yeah is obvious, and they should be told off if they are off-topic, but it does create a lot of frustration between mods and users when it happens often enough.

I feel like an ideal solution would make the requirement of having to warn people in the first place not needed, because I can't imagine mods want to warn people all the time either.

Personally I just want neurotic-neurons to simply become a second general chat instead of what it is now, because I don't see any real benefit to having a channel dedicated to a niche like what we currently have.

[finite plume]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-gif-26178844

[umbral swift]

mini modding could get a bit toxic me thinks, otherwise its alright ya im too tired to use my brain
I currently dont think livestream chat should be kept open tho

[cursive hill]

yeah i signed-up for a dictatorship under neuro not under some mods on a discord 😠

[uncut cargo]

Basically what I was trying to say above yeah

[balmy thorn]

1 I fully agree with

2 though I still kind of disagree with, it might require a chat rename, so i still think this is best: #1175160594068946984 message

[random pecan]

about warns, I personally don't think that official "warns" that are sent with the bot are very transparent or friendly, but that may be a different conversation, I think a friendly reminder once in a while is enough

[tight flax]

Yeah there's a handful of people who don't even talk in the channel and they just randomly send images like the hop on abandoned archive gif or the kissing gif or whatnot

If it fits the topic of the conversation then yes but otherwise just sending it for no reason especially when there's another conversation active is just annoying IMO

(I haven't been in neurotic for a while so I'm not sure if this has already been solved or not, or if people have moved from hop on abandoned archive gifs and kissing gifs to other gifs)

The purpose is to mainly target those people, not to target regular gif usage in conversations

IMO disclaimer

[umbral swift]

praying neuro creates microchips to implant in our brains asap

[torn apex]

Hi
I´m a lurker; I normally don't enter discords of the content creators I like, but I did with this one. The reason was mostly because of the schedule (so I can know when Vedal/Neuro is live).
Now, after being here for a while, I can say there are good aspects to this community, like the contact with Vedal, the art, animations, or the neuro-related projects people have, like games, memes, and even Melba; and I like the conversations around neuro clips, like the one for Asmongold earlier.
That being said, it can be a pain (even if somewhat interesting) to see “fights” in neurotic neurons like the one some time ago where people were against the mods, or some of the bickering the last 24 hours (people saying things like stfu or making other “jokes” are not helping; sometimes people are not in on the joke, or they don't know when someone is "joking." Don't expect people on a text chat to notice when you are joking, when some don't expect people on a text chat to notice when you are joking, when some don't even detect it in a voice chat, real life or are being serious, it creates conflict). There is also the problem of the people spamming things like the turtussy to get reactions and the people saying they don't like it, both are problematic, because like I said earlier even if both sides are in on the joke, as an outsider it feels aggressive/Spam.
I'm in this discord for Neuro/Vedal, that's why I lurk in neurotic neurons and not in general chat so I would like a little more order. That 's all.

[tight flax]

I agree, time to start another thr- /J /plswaitnotyet

[severe scarab]

you posted a graph then

[azure sapphire]

Another moderation discussion

[cursive hill]

ok tho seriously, trying to enforce strict rules like that is like shooting on people on the street walking on bike lanes. I really think that you're gonna create more hate than anything by enforcing too much, i'll even say some people would even do a double take before talking or not even taking the chance sometimes. i dont see any good comming out of it

[slender solar]

is it really much of an issue for someone to say in #neurotic-neurons "Can we go back on topic? This doesnt have anything to do with Neuro."?

[opaque quarry]

Hop on Abandoned Archive gifs still get posted occasionally, the shipping gifs, images, and videos have managed to get even more frequent recently (and there's more variants of them), today we feast also gets posted a lot now. There is also just random video or gif posts sometimes from certain people (I won't be saying names as to not target), that also being the case in #livestream-chat, if not more common there with the completely random gifs (drywall, for example, no idea what that's about).

[earnest surge]

Have we tried democracy and voting yet

[white hamlet]

delete mods and delete rules

[tight flax]

N SHOT

[azure sapphire]

LETS VOTE

[obtuse shale]

POG.

[feral scarab]

ive been in a discord that did that. A revolution happened and the owner deleted the server

[bleak crescent]

I VOTE WE DISREGARD ALL VOTES

[cursive hill]

instead of trying to apply rules just for the sake of rules, maybe lets try to think what the outcome will be xd

[uncut cargo]

People being given too much freedom is what lead to this shitshow in the first place

[tight flax]

The idea isnt to enforce strict rules, I am more or less thinking about how neurotic used to be in the past

[obtuse shale]

The inevitable end to all democracies.

[cedar saffron]

bump for more democracy

[hidden eagle]

comrade cabbage

[earnest surge]

for the part of joking, that's why i myself always ask to the one who seems serious if they are joking or not

[finite plume]

i bet this is vedal every morning because of the "problems" this discord creates out of thin air that are not even related to neuro

[tidal hinge]

Leaders, bosses, or just someone that has the final word are very important. Because they have to power to stop you so you have to follow their orders, like it or not. But if someone random thinks you arent following the rules, they might or might not be right, but the chances of being told to f off are high.

[tight flax]

Can we get back on topic

[earnest surge]

Well just have neuro make the rules and enforce them. bam no one can get mad now.

[cursive hill]

i mean wasnt neurotic neuro the place of "hardcore" fan of neuro ? isnt it normal that after some time the community forms itself and people who are here for like 6+month all go into neurotic neuron ?

and idk if old neurotic neuron was better, i remember a certain everythingOwO litterally being a creep and other people like that being here

[uncut cargo]

This is why it feels pointless to let the community weigh in on issues at times, because no matter what happens people end up derailing the conversations and turning everything into jokes and memes. I would much rather have the mods and Vedal make choices on how to run this place without running it through the community first because at this point things only get more and more frustrating.

We never reach a conclusion and it just makes me less and less interested in being on this server every time this happens.

[earnest surge]

Sadly I think to solve these issues there will be toes that get stepped on.

[opaque quarry]

Random gifs, videos, and images is an issue beyond #neurotic-neurons honestly, I've had to leave #livestream-chat and move to #neurotic-neurons to talk about a stream. Anyway, that's not the point, main point is the frequency of gifs in #neurotic-neurons.

[random pecan]

the LaughAtThisGuy sticker spam that happens when Neuro roasts someone is a bit excessive imo

[balmy thorn]

Holy politics

Also shit it's 4:21am gn

[slender solar]

whenever that happens it makes it hard to chat in the livestream chat

[cursive hill]

24 votes

[random pecan]

Yeah. It pushes up chat and screenshots very fast

[opaque quarry]

I also find the gifs a bit excessive. The entire channel can be absolutely swarmed with gifs, to the point it's not really possible to talk about the livestream before the message is buried by a wave of gifs.

[cursive hill]

the argument "chat goes too fast" is a moot point, if one day we get 20k viewer then what ?

[bleak crescent]

I mean isn't that just a natural consequences of having more people?

[earnest surge]

You know vedal could technically go balls to the wall with the discord servers data collection if he wanted. There are tools for it. Would make it easier to see what's happening in a more concrete way

[slender solar]

Not really, since we only usually have like 20 active chatters and like 200 lurkers

[opaque quarry]

I more meant #livestream-chat, the amount of gifs that get spammed there make it a lot more inconvenient to chat there.

[spark vessel]

the secret is the most on topic live chat is twitch chat

[tepid lagoon]

It'll go back to the same problem due to root cause of the off-topic is something there's nothing to be talk to make chat alive to the next topic
so sometime there's a neurotic's inside joke, eat cats, etc mixed in a bit to keep chat going and back to neuro again
or sometime it's just off-topic to be on topic, like gamejam schedule pic #1175160594068946984 message that kinda out of context
due to they're talking about Neuro gamejam(that's in topic) so they talk about other gamejam in reference too to keep topic going
to enforced it by rule, not the guideline gonna killed of every topic even the in-topic one and allowing mini mod is gonna go toxic eventully

but I agree with spamming gif/image. maybe short chain for joke but if it too long (7+) maybe it's should be enforced

and there's another problem of mod judgement that kinda become root cause of the first elephant that some go hardline and some more relaxed
and normal user can't even argue about it except take it to the modmail that kinda be a big deal so only few bother doing it but still hold grudge

[cursive hill]

i dont see how my point doesnt stand, what stop people to join the discord and chat ? you intend to limit the number of people that can chat on #livestream-chat ?

[tight flax]

I feel like that's fine. People like reacting to what's happening on stream there is no way to filter that except slowmode

[dense junco]

personally at this point one of general or NN should just be archived

[tidal hinge]

livestream chat acts like twitch chat, because in the end they are the same. But here you can share media. But that issue is far deeper than this, any channel will become twitch chat while stream is online, you would have to fix twitch to fix livestream chat

[earnest surge]

noooooooo

[uncut cargo]

Going to #livestream-chat to chat slowly is like going to a concert to have a conversation, people are there to go wild over the thing they are watching, not to take it slow

[white hamlet]

yea when I see "livestream-chat" I think it's just a twitch chat on Discord, which other streamers do as well

[opaque quarry]

I suppose that is fair, but when some of those gifs are Garfield tearing off and eating a piece of a wall with the caption "drywall," I don't think it should be there.

And beyond that, is there something wrong with not using gifs or stickers in massive amounts? It's also complete spam at the end of streams, for example. Hell, I've even joined in because you can't do anything else there.

[earnest surge]

true i see livestream chat that way too

[slender solar]

#livestream-chat is extremely preferable to twitch chat
since we actually DO talk with eachother as streams progress

its an ACTUAL chat

[cursive hill]

i feel this is a case of arguing about stuff just for the sake of arguing, at the end of the day the goal is to have a maximum of people interacting and keeping the community around neuro the most alive possible, this discussion has only for goal of limiting this in various degree and i dont see this going well

[uncut cargo]

Yeah it's basically twitch chat lite, which a ton more readable than normal twitch chat

[earnest surge]

Prob because twitch's reply feature is dog shit. And you can't really format at all either.

[tidal hinge]

Thats only because there is less people here, any small twitch channel has a great chat, if you could pull all the viewers to livestream chat it would be 100x times worse than actual twitch chat

[tight flax]

yeah that's mainly the reason why offtopic rules got loosened in the first place

[manic moat]

neurotic didn't exist in january man u may be mixing stuff up

[bleak crescent]

Theres also like 5000 people on twitch chat

[slender solar]

Theres also a lot less emote/image spam than twitch in #livestream-chat
imo its really readable and theres a better sense of the community actually enjoying things there

[cursive hill]

bro mb i left the discord for 2-3 month in between i mustve missed it

[earnest surge]

Dear god I can't imagine what live-stream chat would look like on XQC's discord. Your right it's def smaller here. And I think people like to spam emotes overall more since it makes you feel like "part of the group" or whatever

[calm locust]

My juicer

[bleak crescent]

Forsen

[earnest surge]

😂

[cursive hill]

any argument about the number of people on #livestream-chat is meaningless because it would imply it will never increase and i dont think its in the interest of vedal

[earnest surge]

Wait yo I got something

just let members use this

[cursive hill]

isnt #general-network litterally off topic ?

[uncut cargo]

Just what we need, more infighting between members

[earnest surge]

This is why self-policing is a bad idea

[bleak crescent]

Isn't that just mini-modding?

[slender solar]

bruh ive been here for 6 months as the channels increased in popularity, and the amount of traffic #livestream-chat has had has been pretty consistent.

[tepid lagoon]

I think enforcing any rule should be the last resort
it's doesn't help the gen-chat to be more alive, but just kill off neurotic to be dead like gen-chat

[cursive hill]

how does that counter my point ? i personally wish for neuro to blow up more than that. You telling me you know in the futur there will be never enough people on #livestream-chat to make the chat unreadable even without gif spamming ?

[tight flax]

I understand the issues that everyone has brought about mini-modding, what I meant was encouraging people to think for themselves and say "we are talking about ww2 now, this is offtopic, we should probably move", or having other people say that

Mini modding is bad but not in this^ aspect methinks

[cedar saffron]

I mean before when the rules changed both channels were alive pretty damn well (nearly all the time). When it was enforced it seemed more civil and safer to chat than now which is kinda meh atm. (imo)

[uncut cargo]

I get what you're trying to say, and I can control the kind of things I talk about, but I can't really control others, and I don't want to end up feeling like I have to police other members all the time

[earnest surge]

Think the teacher telling them that would work in a highschool classroom when the teacher decides to step out

[slender solar]

my point is that as neuro has grown immensely, the traffic really hasnt changed for that chat.
it remains readable.
Respectfully, I am saying your perspective on the situation is flawed.

[earnest surge]

Neurotic neurons is basically the anime club all in one class together but with the teacher not being there.

[earnest surge]

what about the substitute teacher?

[tame burrow]

i've seen people do this in other servers and it never resulted in any sort of fighting so i think it's fine
but with "encouraging" i assume you meant just a rule change, as actual encouragement of mini-modding can lead to some taking it too far

[earnest surge]

What's the difference most of the time

[tepid lagoon]

well, tartar is a president, not a mod. so people can just at him if they don't agree.

[slender solar]

i feel like its hardly minimodding to remind people that they are now talking about the reconstruction of rome rather than about neurosama, because they are now 4 conversations away from the original one

[kindred oriole]

I wonder what neuro would do if she was in charge of the reconstruction of rome though

[earnest surge]

See now it's on topic which was what I wanted to point out when I said that way earlier (if it were in neurotic neurons)

[tepid lagoon]

well, Neuro buring rome...

[bleak crescent]

Caeser theme stream?

[slender solar]

oh no
what have i done

[earnest surge]

See how easy it is to go off topic.

[tame burrow]

stay on topic the state of #general-network and #neurotic-neurons ics

[slender solar]

yeah but that was technically only one conversation removed
its not like, extremely off topic

[earnest surge]

And back to being on topic, then off again, etc.... (sorry didn't get to finish what I said forgot about the timer)

[uncut cargo]

I'm just going to try putting down my thoughts in a more complete message because I'm getting a headache from being in here for too long.

Neurotic-neurons feels like a channel that is incredibly hard to moderate the topic of since it's such a general topic, either it's super strict and everyone, both mods and users, get tired and frustrated, or there is barely any enforcing of the rules at all, which makes things equally frustrating.

I would prefer neurotic-neurons where changed in a way where there would be no enforcement like this needed and instead let it be more of a general chat, because it honestly doesn't feel like it's worth all the effort that goes into this when the reward is barely anything.

I would also want to keep livestream chat open, or make another channel for any tutel safari/raid/pre-stream chatting, because right now neurotic-neurons get flooded with people who don't want to actually talk about neuro and just start talking about other things no matter what people were already talking about.

And I seriously just want mods to be a bit more strict in general, because I feel like right now the mods are basically talking to a bunch of spoiled children that do nothing but complain and bring down the mood of the server as a whole, barely anything gets done no matter how many 1000 message discussion threads are made, and even then those threads are never on topic either.

I'm just rambling here, but it is getting genuinly tiring having these things pop up all the time, i've been here for almost a year and i've never felt so exhausted being on here, as much as I love this place, it does make it difficult to actually interract with the community outside of #livestream-chat and events.

[earnest surge]

Yeah pretty much.

[mellow tangle]

make a new forum thread for every new unrelated topic in neurotic neurons

[earnest surge]

If there was a discord feature for temporary chat rooms that users could make with a single click or two and enter that might actually be possible

[sharp ravine]

So heres what i have to say:
#neurotic-neurons should be way more enforced. Everyone disagrees with this but it will fix most of the server problems, the server was like this before and it made #neurotic-neurons and #general-network have nearly the same messages everyday

[earnest surge]

Oh shit I forgot I have to do things

Bye

[cursive hill]

there are like 60 people reading this channel and even less saying we need more rules and strict mods, i truly think that if only that little number of people complain, nothing should be done. Its akin to gatekeeping even if this is another subject. i'll use the same metaphor i used at the start, you cant force people not to walk on bike lane, and trying to enforce that to the letter is a completely net negative.
At the end of the day, the goal of this discord is to have more people engaging with neuro, everyone has the same value and if 5% of people doesnt like that chat goes too many time off topic well, tough life bro 😔

[mellow tangle]

it’s 4 am for me please spare europeans

[tidal hinge]

skill issue, just be in western eu (2am )

[cedar saffron]

I've seen about half and half that talk here saying both sides. Personally I'm on the side that it goes off-topic way too much and becoming the one-all that is #general-network. Whereas #neuro-network is and was made specifically for neuro talks. It's fine if it goes off topic every now and then but to the extent it has, has been too much imo and needs to be enforced a bit more than what it currently is (which is next to none from what I've seen) Too much is also not good. Which is what it was before but that was another issue

[azure sapphire]

People still saying that ignoring problems is best solution after elephant

[tepid lagoon]

tbf, try to make channel go 100% on topic is never work (never see one that work and got a lot of people anyway)
some off-topic like short one that die off quickly shouldn't be the focus of moderating. try to forced it is unrealistic.

[earnest surge]

Lets all take a nap

I think we have discussed enough for now.

[tepid lagoon]

can't, it's morning for me

[bleak crescent]

Thats me everytime i watch the streams

[slender solar]

I dont think it should be that going off topic for a second should result in people sayin g"this is off topic" but when a conversation gets at least 2 or 3 conversations removed, we are starting to have a problem

[tight flax]

Pinning for future reference

Actually no, pins should be unbiased and unopinionated

[slender solar]

it still has talking points
I think that should be archived

[cursive hill]

idk about people trying to vote on my take, im literally saying that we are like 1% of the whole discord population trying to debate about something that will affect the whole discord and now 10% of the 1% are trying to make a vote

[cedar saffron]

Sad thing is, the people who are talking/talked here are a majority/half of the people who talk in the discord

[tight flax]

This is not a democracy, and the purpose of this chat isn't to vote on anything. It's for us mods to gather feedback on a problem that has been raised so we can find the best solution to it together with everyone else

[mellow tangle]

those who don’t care about this rn probably won’t be affected with the changes anyways

[tight flax]

So yeah the poll is meaningless

[cursive hill]

yeah but letting 1% of the discord affecting your decision on something that will affect the whole isnt healthy either

[tight flax]

Hearing 1% of people is better than hearing 0% of people

[slender solar]

Agreed.
The people who actually open fourms and found this topic on their own and decided to talk about it here are probably the people who have the most to say about this thing.
ie we are extremely active in the server

[tepid lagoon]

poll is more like "how many people in that faction" than "do this because of the vote"

[open raven]

I don't know about that a lot of lurkers reacts to starboard or vedal messages

[mellow tangle]

but you don’t need to stay on topic in nn to react a message

[earnest surge]

I mentioned it before, but there are tools to extract a massive amount of data involving tons of different metrics for a discord server. It really will help to see what's going on in a literal sense.

[tight flax]

If someone makes those tools and gives them to us we will definitely consider them
Neither vedal nor any of us have the time to work on that

[cursive hill]

thats legit the way to become out of touch if you happen to listen to small minority of people whos happens to be loud, if you want feedback it should be a global feedback not some random channel with 60 people on it 😔

[earnest surge]

The tools already exist is what I meant.

[tight flax]

Right now you seem to be that 1% that you are talking about

But regardless this isn't that big of a deal

[tight flax]

Even though what you are saying is true, since the scale of this decision is minor I do not think it matters at all how many people get to share their opinion

Because there's a finite amount of opinions and I think most of them have already been stated

There is no need for us to draw more attention to this topic, that will just lead to meaningless back and forth

[tight flax]

And as people said before

[keen harbor]

Good luck in whatever you people decide then.

[cursive hill]

fair
i only argued because i would hate seeing neuro community become a place where you're not sure if you should hit the enter key. Im only a lurker and should have doubled my msg count with this channel, theses changes would not affect me whatsoever but it really seemed to me that it was a pure downgrade the way it was going to go. either way good luck

[tight flax]

I worry as well about enforcing off topic rules... Someone made a very good point earlier about the fact that enforcing this could lead to making the channel less welcoming

[tight flax]

Oh that was you

[cursive hill]

bro 💀

[tight flax]

Yeah that is the main scary part about this and I agree with you on that, I don't think getting more opinions is the solution though

[spark vessel]

I do think that's likely personally considering it's now looser because of exactly those complaints like 2 months ago but

[cursive hill]

big brain move is to swap the position of neurotic and general and renaming general into "off topic"

[tight flax]

HOLD ON

STAY HERE

DONT MOVE

I HAVE A SCREENSHOT TO POST

[earnest surge]

[azure sapphire]

[cursive hill]

[tidal hinge]

Please alex, post the turtussy gif now to troll us all

[bleak crescent]

[tepid lagoon]

doit!! doit!!

[cursive hill]

[spark vessel]

I don't think it changes anything but if it makes people happy

[earnest surge]

Why is it that Alex talking in caps feels friendlier

[tight flax]

We discussed that apparently a whole week ago but a very wise mod brought up some very wise arguments against it

Lemme try to find them

[cursive hill]

general is already off topic , just rename it to incite people to talk offtopic in it

[feral scarab]

Alex normally has a serious vibe but in caps he had an excited vibe

[tight flax]

let's figure out #neurotic-neurons first then #general-network i think

[cursive hill]

😠

[mellow tangle]

honestly the fact that people are willing to raise and discuss potential issues with the discord server already makes this community look much more welcoming to me

[cedar saffron]

Make #neurotic-neurons into #off-topic-neuro since people love to go off topic, shrimple as that

[slender solar]

Solution: lock the channel so only Neuro, Evil, and Vedal can chat in it.

That way it’s rules compliant

[tight flax]

but we don't want to create a vibe where people are afraid to press the enter key and talk in the channel (to quote someone who said that earlier)

it has to go back to what it was before, where it was semi-enforced but people still felt comfortable talking

[cedar saffron]

I mean to be fair they could just chat in #general-network if they’re afraid, usually what general chat is for, but I get that

[spark vessel]

Personally I think all that requires is a return to the mods publically correcting the topic a few times a day to establish that as the accepted culture. i'm sure others disagree but i think in a week or two people would get the message if it were steady

didn't even realize i was asking for correction shit

[cursive hill]

i mean, if you want to semi enforce it, cant you just do it ?
I mean more seriously, since its informal im guessing if someone goes off topic for 2 min it doesnt matter but if it snowball into a channel wide off topic you just go and say "woah there guys, maybe continue this in general/offtopic (idk)" i feel like you dont even need to do an announcement or anything since it will be "semi" enforced
(i just read the message on top of me and yeah same)

[tepid lagoon]

my stand is the off-topic problem is more of the symptom than problem itself, it's due to people go there because there're more people(and vedal)
if we can move people from there to gen-chat some way, I think the off-topic problem will solved itself overtime.
enforced more rule is only resulted in driving them to splinter server instead of gen-chat and didn't solve the gen-chat problem

[tight flax]

hjalnir found the thread

[earnest surge]

where?

[buoyant sable]

I got automodded 💢

[spiral ice]

[obtuse shale]

Life becomes very fun when Alex becomes happy excited

[tight flax]

that's an nsfw reference is it not 💢

oh darn im the one going off topic now

[earnest surge]

wait when hjalnir posts 💢 , does that mean something? im confused

[spark vessel]

if you don't know you probably don't want to

[cursive hill]

aneurysm 💢

[buoyant sable]

Anyways I was busy before, time to backread... actually maybe not...

[obtuse shale]

U may not wish to do so

[spark vessel]

read any 50 message chunk and it will be a represntative sample

[cedar saffron]

Not this one though

[obtuse shale]

This thread in general has been pretty darn civil which makes me feel really proud of you guys

I'm almost going to cry

[cursive hill]

i mean at this point no one here wants neuro to die

[tight flax]

Hypothesis: 60s slowmode makes any thread civil

[spark vessel]

it was civil before that though

[tight flax]

that's what pb said too
We must collect more evidence

[cedar saffron]

Before the slow mode we were very civil

[slender solar]

It stayed civil.
I appreciated all the levelheaded discussion.

[feral scarab]

The original post was civil, and it stayed that way. If the original post was inflammatory in it’s wording, things would’ve gotten out of hand fast

[spark vessel]

very fair

[cyan thistle]

have only 1 channel, dedicated to evil

[cursive hill]

i dont think im wrong when i say everyone here wants a better community for neuro, the question is how
also i truly thought the original post was a meme had to read the whole thread to understand that no it wasnt

[slender solar]

Very rare for me to catch one of these fourms live and early enough for me to contribute. I feel honored to have maybe helped in some way.

[tight flax]

This has been a very good conversation to have with everyone, I appreciate everyone's input.
I will lock the thread for the moment while we think about this a bit more.

We will consider the requested changes and post an update / take action before <t:1700683200> <t:1700683200:R>. (even mods are free on weekends)

(this is not a strict deadline, but if we need more time i will let you know)

yes i did increase it by one day in an edit

[slender solar]

Thank you for talking about this everyone.
I'm really glad this finally got discussed.

[feral scarab]

Yeah. And thank you everyone for being so civil about it

[opaque quarry]

I'm glad to be able to have spoken about this. Thank you for being so civil, everyone.

[tight flax]

Shameless plug: #1175212175464345770 message

[tight flax]

Sorry I was

We did come to an agreement on what to do but people were waiting on me to write up a message because I posted the original message before

Pls give me a bit of time to eat breakfast (at 2 am ) and then I'll share our thoughts with you guys

[tight flax]

So i spoke to the rest of the mods and here is what we would like to do to remedy this situation:

1. #general-network and #neurotic-neurons both remain active channels in the server (neither of them will be removed)
2. We want to keep #neurotic-neurons more neuro-focused as it's supposed to be and as it used to be in the past

• We'll give out more reminders to stay on topic and move off topic conversations to #general-network
• We don't want to encourage mini-modding, however "An infrequent and friendly reminder of the rules is okay" (quote from the extended rules)
• We've already started redirecting raid discussions into #general-network to take pressure off of #neurotic-neurons after a stream ends

Basically we want to go back to how neurotic used to be in the past, a few months ago, before we stopped enforcing the off-topic rule.
This does mean that the "stay on topic neurons" meme is back

[slender solar]

I'm fine with this. I think this will be healthy for discussion in the server.

[random pecan]

LGTM
Thanks for considering the topic, this solution sounds like a good one to me

[feral scarab]

This should hopefully be a good step forward in fixing things

[dusk estuary]

Neurotic neurons became pretty trash, people used to talk about ways to improve neuro, ai in general, stream, collabs, now it's just banter, spam, and shitposts. Hang up a no loitering sign and banish these goobers to general (mods are part of the problem btw).

[tight flax]

"Hang up a no loitering sign and banish these goobers to general" has to be one of my favorite messages of all time

[tall cobalt]

Not reading that but I don't think this is.a big deal 🤝💪

[earnest surge]

Neurotic neurons has a bigger problem, but of course the people involved would loose their shit if kicked out.

Man if only they dropped their filter Would make it a lot easier