So at this point, aside from nostalgia what else does Neuro have going for her that Evil don't?

[short sequoia]

I feel like Neuro is becoming more and more cannibalized by her own Evil version.

Her lack of upgrades and features compared to what Evil can do is starting to make her look really inferior

Everytime there's a new collab idea or new content idea there will always be "Evil neuro should do this too.. etc".

Like people already know whatever Neuro does Evil will do better and just want Evil to do it instead of Neuro.

This will keep happening unless something will be done to keep Neuro from getting left behind. Maybe the v3 voice will make her appear more coherent but we can't really force that if it isn't ready yet.

As a regular Neuro enjoyed I'm just worried that she is gradually becoming the inferior version to everyone's eyes.

[supple crater]

Related thread: https://discord.com/channels/574720535888396288/1130912581486383265

[obtuse charm]

no latency. better conversationist

[topaz galleon]

@obtuse charm has leveled up! (0 ➜ 1)

[iron flare]

That's why Vedal is working on upgrading Neuro (making her more "aware").
I trust the turtle .
The V3 voice upgrade seems difficult from what I see, I feel like Vedal is trying to find a voice that will really fit Neuro (and not be too different from the voice she have now), and it's a good thing.

I think that the people that ask for more Evil are not watching Neuro from the start anyway .
It's just a matter of time, let's not panic for nothing

[ebon coral]

You say cannibalizing, I say Vedal is giving both Neuros nearly equal space (Neuro still has more). He is investing into the sisters (or other self) narrative, which makes sense that both Neuros should have a chance to go through most stream ideas.

Also "Evil will do it better" is comepletely subjective. Sure V2 can impart some more emotions and eldritch noises, but that does not mean you automatically assume Neuro's version will be inferior.

[muted wharf]

Evil has a defined consistent personality, but what is Neuro's?
I could say she's the real psychopath of the two, but that's not really written into her prompt.

[kind dirge]

An entirely different personality

[dark scroll]

The big draw of Neuro used to be saying weirdest and most unhinged stuff while looking cute and friendly. Now she kinda mellowed out, and that's why some people prefer Evil, she gives the glimpse of that old Neuro. I don't think Evil was supposed to be that different, she just happened to end up that way and people loved it.

[pallid gale]

Every week, a variation of this post comes out.
I'm yet to see a convincing argument as to why both of them detract from each other instead of contributing to a greater whole.

I understand you prefer one over the other, but how would the absence of one actually enhance the other? Which features are you referring to? Is it about her voice?
Are you aware that people disliking the new voice on Neuro was the reason Evil got it?

One can argue that one gets to do things the other doesn't, such as collaborations, but it works both ways. I trust Vedal to balance the content they create.

[peak mountain]

istg we're getting one guyed by one mf with tons of alts

[muted wharf]

watching the old Neuro vods, two pointed things come to mind

1. Early Neuro used to have longer responses with more lines.
   These days most of her answers are quite brief.
   Yet she remains as unhinged as ever on her Twitter, where her tweets are allowed to be lot longer. Perhaps having longer replies gives her the space needed to be more imaginative and wacky.

2. Early Neuro talked about herself or what's on her mind considerably more often.
   Nowadays it feels like she's almost always responding to chat. This isn't bad in of itself, but when she's not using that as a platform to talk more about herself or some other topic, she ends up injecting less of her unhinged personality into the conversation. By being more focused onto chat itself instead of herself it also feels she's thanking subs more often in the past.

[small ermine]

Yes, and Evil can be waaaaaay too mean. Only über-subs like Numi can handle her ^^

[topaz galleon]

@small ermine has leveled up! (4 ➜ 5)

[dire bison]

Neuro is far more wholesome than Evil Neuro, who is an unhinged lunatic the majority of the time. Both serve great purposes.

Neuro used to be more unhinged though, but she does seem to have way more brief responses.

[muted wharf]

Neuro really does feel like a shadow of her former self

[dire bison]

It seems intentional, which is the bizarre part. She's clearly capable of going on rants when she's not responding to someone, but responses seem short. If I had to guess, it might be that way because there's a lot of bits/highlighted messages to respond to now.

[iron flare]

yeah her responses are a lot shorter, and she rants less. At least she is more coherent
I'm sure that Vedal is working to change that

[dire bison]

I've noticed Neuro can go on longer tangents with collaboration partners as well. Sometimes it'll be short, otherwise she'll directly describe herself attacking something, rolling away, and attempting to flee during Snuffy's collaboration.

[iron flare]

I guess it's random

[dire bison]

I do think it's intentionally lower for bits, but not for when she's directly talking to someone. I can't really think of any tts that has made her go on a full schizo rant.

[muted wharf]

I don't even feel she's more coherent this stream

[iron flare]

I feel like she is more coherent during collabs compared to her first months of streaming, but it's true that she have still have a lot/if more "hallucinations" during chatting streams

[muted wharf]

On twitter she's still plenty unhinged but as I've talked about before

1. Her tweets are much longer than her on-stream responses
2. She's talking about herself rather than reacting to chat

[iron flare]

Vedal has a rants button I think, and he's choosing the best ones to publish them on twitter.
It's a lot more complicated to do it in live,
the main issue to me is that her responses to chat are a lots shorters than before and she create less rants from them.
I know Vedal can make her rants by herself if he wants to (he did it during the last gameshow and during the last Neuro X Evil collab)

[muted wharf]

Rants weren't just Neuro initiating them on her own, I remember when she was able to them while interacting with chat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZheF4RDqxDQ
Like, Neuro might not even be capable of doing this anymore with her current finetuning

[iron flare]

that's what I'm saying, he needs to make her rants more from the questions/responses of chat

[dire bison]

Well, we have to consider that Neuro is also looking for what elicits a lot of responses from chat (I assume, anyway), because she has locked on to a lot of little recurring things.

She always tells Vedal "I love you", and it gets chat to spam "SAY IT BACK", as an example.

Chat engagement is likely a "reward" to Neuro's AI, so she has something to learn behavior from.

Because I doubt Vedal has prompted Neuro's AI to constantly say "I love you" to him, lmao.

Now if my theory is correct, this means two things.

1. She'll lock on to things that elicit emote spam, because that's just what Twitch chat does.
2. Because what follows after these is a bunch of meaningless jargon in the form of emotes, she gets consistently fed back these one-word gibberish postings like "Corpa" and "KEKW", and then that's happening for a whole stream every time she goes online and it's not a collab. It would make sense, then, that her responses got shorter over time naturally.

[muted wharf]

Her responses didn't get shorter in the early days despite chat being all emote spam then too.
So it feels like a deliberate action from the creator

[dire bison]

If that's the case, then it may very well just be that he's tried to steer Neuro into being the straight man, whereas Evil Neuro is left to go wild.

[iron flare]

I know that Vedal is adding emotes little by little to the filter, so she's likely to pick more sentences and not emotes spam. So you are saying that she's picking sentences/phrases that have emotes in it ?

I don't know a lot about it (since we are not Vedal), I don't want to spread misinformation

[dire bison]

I'm saying this before, but I'll make it clear now I am only making assumptions here based on observations, and Vedal is far smarter than me with programming than I'll ever be, lmao.

But most AI tends to have some kind of reward system in place. And for a Twitch chat bot, it just makes sense to me engagement going up would be the scripted reward.

[muted wharf]

Even Evil doesn't go into rants as often as before. Compare her karaoke stream with the early karaoke vods and the differences are the same.

[dire bison]

I think she went pretty crazy during the weather stream, she had multiple rants in that one alone. But I guess I'd have to watch again and compare.

[iron flare]

she was set on ranting mode I think, she wasn't responding/looking to chat

[muted wharf]

that one feels like he pressed the rant button for her segments

[dire bison]

If we run under the assumption that there is a ranting/schizo slider, then my theory becomes...

Because Twitch chat is flooded with one-word emotes/gibberish and not actual questions or full sentences, the AI has pretty much nothing to play off of when she decides to read a chat message and respond.

Realistically, if all your eyes can see is "KEKW" or "monkaW", there's not much you can say, but the AI obviously wants to respond in some way it considers meaningful.

[muted wharf]

Vedal already went about this, there's an emote filter for Neuro which isn't perfect but it's there

[iron flare]

so you are saying that chat is the problem ?

[dire bison]

The Evil Neuro/Zentreya collaboration showed they're perfectly capable of having conversations and being steered in the right direction, Evil Neuro seemed to eventually remember Zentreya's description of what S and F ranks meant. Lol.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think Evil Neuro only said "goodbye" like twice that stream.

[dire bison]

I've had this theory for a while that chat is lobotomizing the AI, and that would make sense why Vedal would want an emote filter, lmao.

[muted wharf]

Collabs are still good right now, but I'm gonna say they could be even better if Neuro had longer responses + was more willing to rant more like in the past

[topaz galleon]

@muted wharf has leveled up! (4 ➜ 5)

[dire bison]

I agree with you, and it's part of why I prefer Evil Neuro for content currently. She rarely ever just says "Yes!" and nothing else.

The Neuro and Snuffy collab showed that regular Neuro can still give longer responses, but she never did go on a full rant. So right now, I think this is a big part of why collabs are the best content. And apparently, weather streams where Evil Neuro is left to her own devices, lmao.

That being said, I want regular Neuro to hopefully give longer responses in the future too, because the streams where she's just being supportive of Vedal's gameplay is such feel-good vibes to me. I don't know what it is.

[muted wharf]

Evil was occasionally able to actually converse with chat like a collab partner. It was a tangent off of emote spam but they were really really good when it happened. She doesn't seem able to tangent off of TTS sadly.

[dire bison]

Sometimes she can for a bit. I once TTS'd that there was something wrong with her voice modulator and she remembered that for like three messages, was pretty funny to me.

[iron flare]

I hope Vedal will succeed in the upgrades he plans to do/working on for Neuro, that's makes me a little sad to see her in this state when I compare it to chatting streams from april for exemple
But she is still cute

[dire bison]

He did say it was like 9 months or something since the last Neuro-specific upgrade.

For AI, I mean.

[muted wharf]

She is able to react to chat reacting to the TTS, but then it feels like she has no memory of her own TTS response.

[dire bison]

Hmm. Suppose that could be it.

[muted wharf]

Ok watching the Evil VODs again
In terms of injecting her own personality vs straight reactions and being able to rant on her own slightly more often, yeah she's definitely closer to the old Neuro than whatever happened to Neuro right now.
No wonder I felt the current implementation of TTS held her back more than it did to Neuro

That said they both could really use the longer response length past Neuro had.

[iron flare]

Vedal seems to have fixed the issue with her short responses, she's forming longer answers now

[marsh rain]

dunno, today's collab looked mostly short responses, or am i crazy? does that only apply to tts? thats something i've seem quite frequently for neuro, on collabs her responses tends to be a lot shorter than usual, but for some reason its ok when its vedal (?)

[iron flare]

She was forming long answers today .

But she do respond shortly to tts message, I guess it's made to not let the TTS overtake the stream and let Neuro read regular chat messages without being interrupted.