evil should get a new name

[molten forge]

I wanted to make a post about this a while ago, but since many people have already stated many of the points that I've wanted to talk about I've decided to write a more opinionated post and I decided to also make some counter points.

1. It's an awkward name.
   I, personally, just don't like the name Evil and think that it is very awkward to say/type and can make sentences slightly confusing to interpret. I know this isn't exactly the BEST point to make and I know that there are other names that are similar( Power, Red, Neuro, etc) but I simply just don't think that the name works in the same way that those do.
2. It doesn't really fix confusion.
   Evil's name being Evil instead of Evil Neuro is definitely a more clear indicator that Evil is a different entity, to some extent, than Neuro but that's only through the lens of knowing they are separate entities. I don't think that people take into consideration how easy it still is for collab partners to still think that Evil=Neuro, a name that uses a word like evil and a model which is currently just a color could be easily misinterpreted as Neuro expressing herself as an ethereal representation of evil rather than another AI name Evil, at least that's how I would interpret it if I had no prior knowledge of Evil's existence.

3. Goes against why people like Evil.
   One of the biggest reasons that I don't like Evil's name being Evil is that it basically confines her to being or acting evil, to clarify I'm not saying that I want Evil to stop being evil, being evil is a BIG part of her personality but that's not the ONLY part of her personality. I fear that as time goes on Evil will encounter a problem similar to Neuro. One of the biggest reasons that I've heard people say for liking Evil is the freedom she has from the "Neuro brand" and yet people want her to have a name which basically puts one part of her image in people's minds and keeps her from going beyond that.
4. It is the perfect time to change her name.
   People in the community have this impression that Evil's name cant be changed due to the fact that we gone past the point where her name could be changed, but I'd argue that it is the PERFECT time to change Evil's name. With Evil getting her own model, start screen, fumo, solo collabs, it has become abundantly clear to me that Evil will get many more unique things and maybe even more Evil exclusive things in the future. I think that the Evil we have now will pale in comparison to the Evil we will have in the future and that right now taking advantage of the power we have with this version is something we can do, at least before it becomes official.

[final dawn]

nevil

[molten forge]

theres more that I want to write but this is enough for now

[flint elk]

I like evil, like just the name evil neuro its grown on me

[stiff nymph]

I agree with the new name, but I think the first name, Neuro, should be shared both

like neuro-sama / neuro-eve

[shell geode]

Neuro Toxin

[tired escarp]

the pros of evil's current name is that it's simple and to the point. New chatters understand right away this is "evil". I don't think the name is limiting per say, it sets expectations, and it's interesting when evil breaks those expectations such as when she acts like a sister to neuro.

[past jewel]

Evelyn is full name, and Evil a short form

[molten forge]

its simple and to the point but its too on the nose. i feel that expectations are something that should be built up or else they just fall flat most of the time, also yeah Evil does occasionally act beyond being mean and evil but most of her behavior is basically expected when you tune in.

incase any one is going to talk about it: i intend on addressing adding honorifics to her name( ie: evil-chan, evil-sama) and also why i think the name matters

[tired escarp]

many vtubers have a concept behind them, currently the concept behind evil neuro/evilyn/evelyn is the "evil twin". if we were to go beyond that concept what would that be?

[molten forge]

i mean going beyond that as in expanding her identity or playing into other traits like her chunni behavior, her nihilistic side, her comedic side rather than her evilness

i like evil being evil but ill admit that i think its already getting a little stale sometimes

i just want her to have the opportunity to evolve as much as neuro i suppose

[slow grotto]

Eliv

[next sky]

Melly by Neuro

[cosmic wind]

I said that before but maybe confusion will disappear after evil gets her own model

[swift kestrel]

1- Is Evil harder to pronounce than Neuro or Vedal?
Common words like Power, Red, Hope, Faith, Grace, and Evil have straightforward meanings.
Making them more memorable and relatable for some, unlike names like Jacob or Alexander, which can be harder to visualize.

2-Are they distinct entities? I don´t know exactly what Vedal´s intention is with the characters.
If the aim is clear differentiation and well-defined characters, there are other critical "problems" that need addressing first.

What is the relationship between Neuro and Evil, aside from both being AI.
What does being "sisters" mean for AI.
Is Evil one of the voices? Is Evil a corrupted version of Neuro's code?
However, is this truly problematic? Leaving things open to viewers' interpretation is a good thing 😄

3- Does being named Grace or joy force em to being graceful or constantly happy?
People and characters exceed their names.
Calling someone "Big Dick Bob", but that doesn't mean their name is Robert... (Dick aside... if it exists.)

I never hear anyone liking Evil for "breaking away from the Neuro brand."
And, well, hate to tell you but, Evil is actually tied to the Neuro brand =P.
They both share the same channel, and the i think the idea was for them to be something like tag team.

4. It's trickier than it looks.
   As you might be aware, some people like the name Evil, and i don´t think Vedal likes to split the community.

Is Evil even a name or a nickname? Do AI even require names?
He could say Evil's a nickname, and she has a proper name.

[final dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[molten forge]

ill address most of this later, also when i was talking about branding i meant brand image. also if you havent seen anyone talk about it heres an image:

[swift kestrel]

What does that even mean, though?
What is neuro´s brand image?
And how does Evil defy that brand image?

[molten forge]

it relates to things like how she looks, sounds, acts, the type of stuff she does, basically everything related to appearance and people’s perception

[swift kestrel]

Go on...

[molten forge]

its not that Evils existence defies Neuro’s brand image, but that Evil has more freedom in terms of how she can appear( or atleast she HAD more freedom). as long as Evil has Neuro’s face, she’s basically free to be whtever

[molten forge]

[swift kestrel]

How does having Evil use Neuro's face free her up to do whatever she wants?
Are you saying that Evil serves as a way for Vedal to experiment without directly impacting Neuro? I guess that was the idea, yes.
I believe Evil compliments Neuro. While I'm not entirely convinced that Evil contradicts Neuro's "brand image," I do think those differences makes her more interesting.

But I'll be patient for the other points you mentioned earlier, whenever you have a moment! 😄

[molten forge]

having Neuro’s face, aka being her twin/clone/doppelgänger, is apart of Evil’s brand but beyond that (and being evil ig) she doesn’t really have anything that is completely apart of what makes Evil. Also yes that is basically what im saying.

i like that Evil is the spice to Neuro’s sugar but i guess i just want the dynamic to flesh itself out beyond that

sorry if some of this is confusing, im starting to realize that my vocabulary isnt big enough to convey what i mean

[swift kestrel]

Yeah I agree with that, Evil is Neuro with spice, but i think they both are part of the same brand.

Now, circling back, how does that justify a name change??
Do you believe that simply changing her name would enhance her character?
Are you suggesting separate names for them to make them more distinct, or are you hoping for a more defined individuality between Evil and Neuro?

I'm not entirely sure about Vedal's plan, but I recall him mentioning the idea of maintaining both Evil and Neuro within the same brand.
Surely he is going to keep developing both of them as ai and characters.

[novel spoke]

I guess he meant Evil keeping her Neuro roots, but given more opportunities to further evolve and develop her own branding.

[wild grove]

Calling her Evil is the same as naming a dog "Dog"

[crude dust]

that's exactly how I call my dog and cat

[eager goblet]

Neuro Samantha Vedal

Evilyn Channing Vedal

[swift kestrel]

How is that even the same? 😛
If I were to open a dictionary, would I see her portrait under the definition of "Evil"?
Is Evil the digital embodiment of malice, cruelty, immorality, sadism, and so on?

I totally get your point, but even then, don´t see how that´s a good argument.
I mean, there are a lot of characters with on the nose names that are very popular.

And hey, Batman is really Bruce Wayne.
Once again, Is Evil her name or just a nickname?
Is that the name Vedal pick for her, or did she decide to call herself Evil?

I get some people don´t like that name Evil or would like something else...
But you know what they say about trying to please everyone?

The only way i can see a name change without it seeming like pandering, is to be tied to her character development, like a storytelling twist where she straight-up rejects being called "Evil." and decides a new name for herself.

[swift kestrel]

You really think the name Evil is keeping her from doing that?

[molten forge]

1. This point was more a matter of personal opinion, Evil’s name isn’t necessarily hard to pronounce it’s just that it’s VERY awkward and can make sentences a little confusing to read especially if everything is typed in lowercase.
2. I think you might have misinterpreted my point a little, I’m not talking about them being different entities from a lore perspective, I mean them LITERALLY being different AI. My little interpretation example was to show that Evil can very easily be seen as Neuro.
3. I’m not sure if I fully understand the point you’re making but I’ll try to respond. When I’m talking about Evil’s name, I mean her official name; the name that shows up on her streams, merch, collabs, basically anything considered Evil’s and the name that will be attached to her. People and characters are not defined by they’re names, but I think the examples you provided(Grace, Joy) are not good for proving your point. Grace and joy are words yes, but people also know them as names and it helps that grace and joy are not commonly used or heard with makes it easier to associate them with something else.
4. It’s tricky because the community makes it tricky, they get super attached to placeholder things that they would very quickly get over if replaced. Right now the point of my post is to get the community on common ground(mainly on the side of renaming even) and making sure they don’t agree to something they’ll regret, V2 voice, before Vedal makes a decision.

[molten forge]

To keep it simple, yes to some extent.

I’ll only be addressing the first two paragraphs and last one.

1. I mean, if you search dog on the internet will you see a picture of your dog? Calling Evil Evil because she is evil is the same as calling a dog Dog because it is a dog. Also yes, Evil is literally all those things and more sometimes.
2. This is too much for a name change lol. I don’t imagine Evil having the consistency or going through the process of changing her name nor do I imagine Vedal making lore and putting that much effort in for a name change.

how i feel after writing all of this:

[errant portal]

Evil = Evilyn

Neuro = Numero (only thing I could think of)

[dull anchor]

this is such a well elaborated discussion, wow.

[molten forge]

i try my best

[swift kestrel]

1- Fair enough, i think all of them are mostly personal opinion and guesses.

2- Are they truly separate AI? Is that really clear?
Evil being easily confused with neuro is not an issue of names, but them looking almost the same, between other things.
And is that really a problem? They are alter egos after all, right?

3- You said "I don't like Evil's name being Evil is that it basically confines her to being or acting evil"
And i argue that a name doesn´t actually define the character, only expectations (and those can be defied and shattered).

4- What makes this name a placeholder, who decides that?

There is no perfect time for such changes and it might be a complex process.
Look at the rebranding of Twitter... Everyone adjusted to the new name without issues or memes?

If Vedal really wants to do it he will...
But might be harder than doing an announcement on a dev stream, like "Ok everyone, she is now dubbed Sir Evilot"
Although that would be funny haha
Maybe giving her a nametag will help 😛

Ultimately our opinions lack context of what are the plans for the future of both Evil and Neuro.

1. Again don´t think its a fair comparison. The word dog is used to refer to a species, therefore naming a dog "Dog" wouldn´t carry any extra significance (Maybe that the owner might not be very creative or lazy).
   Now evil does carry significance, and calling an ai girl that has an extra layer of meaning.

2.I don´t know what Vedal wants.
All I know is that the name is fine for me, and unless the name change is actually justified, it would feel meaningless to me.

[swift kestrel]

Ye, good talk! 😄

[errant portal]

-2 are they really separate? They are twins, so they are kinda the same person. But what makes them different is their personality. So I think it’s fair to say they are two different people, but still twins.

[swift kestrel]

Again, they are AI.
We only know they are twins cause they call each other that.
What does it mean for AI to be twins?

[errant portal]

Because of the lore

[swift kestrel]

Haha, fair enough.
Although I find it hard for code to be born during the same birth.
Using terms that could make it easier for us humans to understand and relate is a very AI thing to do.
I think it would be interesting, lore wise, to explore what exactly makes them different, cause if part of their character is being AI, then they cant be sisters/twins like we understand it.

Still, the rest of that point stands.

[ionic scroll]

Maybe Akuno from "aku no" -- Japanese for evil -- as she's an anime girl after all. But I think I like Yakunan as well -- calamity, disaster. More ominous.

[gentle pawn]

this whole time i thought Evil-chan is like Jashin-chan (evil god)

[frank lion]

While its overcomplicate evil neuro, i do agree sometimes it confuse neuro even us if we dont see the subs if she talking about evil as evil neuro or evil about her doings. But if she got her own name, she will be no longer evil version of neuro.

[errant portal]

If we want to get a name for evil then why not also getting one for neuro 🤔

[molten forge]

im cooking my responses but for now enjoy neurooper

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1136268081652572181/1137038386847301763/NeuroopaTalk.gif