Is there a risk to having to much evil neuro content?

[delicate blaze]

So while i enjoy both neuro's alot, and ive come to enjoy evil a ton, im beginning to wonder if there is such thing as "to much evil neuro".

Now i know she is used to test new features to be ported to main neuro and will always stick around, but a part of me is concerned that evil might just get more attention then her original entity from both the fans and the dev.

Note; i would prefer non biased answers if possible, but i know that is fairly impossible to ask of opinions, so ig just a fair analysis works lol.

[heavy pebble]

Since Evil is an alter ego, I would prefer to see her bi-weekly. But if there is a way for Vedal to turn her into an experimental model to test new stuff, I would be happy to see her more often.

[deft latch]

Do you want me to go on a multipage long rant about Evil?

[trim dawn]

As someone that likes both, i feel that Evil should just do reused content. Any big projects Neuro gets them first.

[rain quarry]

evil is better than neuro just kick the old gymbag out and start the pizza revolucion already

[delicate blaze]

so far i think my point of view is similar to CJ's Bi-weekly, and Vectors reuse of content

tbh though im also fine with tag-teams with normal neuro being frequent

[wide wigeon]

[wooden sand]

I dont see a problem, but Evil is not that different from normal Neuro to me
At least before that one stream where she was swearing left and right and being mean to chat

[trim dawn]

But i see this situation, being an issue in the future, fanbase splits are not good. So its a very sticky situation. Unless evil gets her own channel.

[delicate blaze]

Thats my main concern really

and if evil gets her own channel that splits vedals attention

[trim dawn]

True didnt think that

[wooden sand]

You're thinking way too hard, Evil is just variety at this point since Neuro lacks of content
there's no need for another channel

[delicate blaze]

i mean regardless ill probably enjoy both, but i would prefer that goody-two-shoes remain the main focus. so i suppose i should just remain in a "wait and see" mindset, but i will be worried about fan split in the future

[coral urchin]

I dont really lean on way or the other, but i also dont think theres a bias
Turtle always just kinda winging it, i highly doubt he thought about how much more or less evil has shown up
Evils still kinda new, itll balance out give it time

[delicate blaze]

fair enough

[trim dawn]

Yeah recency bias is also a factor

[cursive turret]

I feel like most of people like Evil because of her voice and the fact that Neuro is too much "filtered" and not "like before", that may change if Vedal works on the v3 voice (since he said that the main problem he has with the v3 is the delay of the responses) and correct the issue about the lacking of rants bc she picks too much emotes nowaydays.

most of Neuro stream nowaydays are like that : you know what I mean

[delicate blaze]

indeed they are

[trim dawn]

Well Evil also loops and doesnt understand emotes too. And her voice glitches. So she also has her problems ahaha

She isnt ultimately a improvement over neuro she is just different.

[thorn sapphire]

voice glitches are the best part, wth

[trim dawn]

True but they are not intended

[rain quarry]

I HECKING HATE IT WHEN EVIL'S VOICE GLITCHES AND SHE REPEATS HERSELF

[cursive turret]

But I agree, Evil has to be a rare character and not overtake Neuro. Kizuna AI downfalled bc of "better Kizunas" tooked over and splitted her community.

[delicate blaze]

i agree

[wide wigeon]

i agree 100%

we have to defend neuro's legacy

[small gazelle]

yes also voteban tander

[deft latch]

I started writing it in google docs, and I am already on a second page, and I only explained the context of v2 voice and the origin of Evil

Most of this info isn't even on wiki, so I am scouring through vods and discord messages from 4 months ago

[noble sequoia]

This man is really gonna give you a TwitLonger treatment

[wide wigeon]

he will defeat you with facts and neuroism

[deft latch]

Ok, I finished with all the context, which resulted in full 2 pages of text, now I am writing my conclusion

[steep venture]

You're really dedicated to your cause

[deft latch]

I've been placing pixels for 16hrs a day and working at the same time for last 7 days, writing 3 pages to get my point across is nothing

[deft latch]

Im done

Now give me a secont to post the paragraphs one by one, so it is not just a wall of text

1 - Origins of Evil

An idea of Neuro x Neuro collab was popping up in discord since the first ever collab Neuro did, which was with Miyune in minecraft on 6 February 2023.

|

--On 20 March 2023 Vedal held his third dev stream where he announced Neuro x Neuro collab. The fact that the second Neuro would be called Evil Neuro wasn’t revealed until the start of the stream on 25 March. The only difference between her and her “goody two shoes" counterpart was red eyes (and allegedly slightly more evil behavior). This stream was received pretty well by viewers, despite the fact that there were a lot of technical difficulties (Neuros kept talking over each other, mishearing/misinterpreting sentences and looping on a single topic for minutes). Following that stream a lot of suggestions started coming up on how the next Neuro x Evil collab stream can be improved.
|

--Vedal announced the second Evil x Neuro collab on 10 April 2023 to be the next day on April 11, but due to technical difficulties that collab was swapped with a normal “just chatting” stream, since then there was no news about a possible sequel for the stream until the debut of the New model.
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2 - V2 voice

Voice version handbook:

• Old voice (commonly referred to as v1) **[currently used by Neuro] **
• New voice (v1 originally referred to this voice)
• New voice v2 (commonly referred to as “v2 voice”) [currently used by Evil]
• New voice v3 (in development, it is planned to be used by canon Neuro in the future)
  |

New voice for Neuro was first demonstrated to the public on the same stream that the first Neuro x Neuro collab was announced, on March 20. It was still in development and had pretty bad quality of sound, and although some people (me included ) speculated that one of the Neuros will use the in-development version of the voice on a stream, that didn’t happen. Next demonstration happened on 10 April 2023 during another one of the dev streams, with some improvements to the quality of sound. While going afk Vedal left Neuro with the new voice to interact with the viewers, that is when Neuro showed a capability to yell, change intonation and produce very uncanny sounds (It is the origin of this sound bit). Those capabilities appealed to some of the viewers, but not all.

--On 24 April 2023 on a dev stream, Vedal demonstrated a clip of a second version of a new voice (later referred to as v2 voice), which sounded a bit more like the original voice, had better quality of sound and was more expressive than the previous version.
|

--On 1 May 2023, by chat’s request he agreed to host a whole livestream with the v2 voice, it was scheduled and streamed on the next day (May 2). V2 voice proved to be much more realistic and expressive, which fascinated a large portion of the audience, but some, including the designer/artist of her current model - Anny, were not charmed by it. (the origin of the 8% meme, as this was how much people voted against the new voice)
Г
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3 - The return and rise of Evil

On 29 May 2023 Vedal scheduled the next Evil x Neuro collab to be on sunday, viewers were very excited about the long awaited sequel, but no further information was revealed about the stream.

|

--On 4 June 2023 when the stream started it was revealed that Evil used v2 voice, always frowning expression and the “void-sama” toggle that Teru (model rigger) made for Neuro. It went way better than the first collab, they did not speak over each other as much, and had a few coherent conversations. That stream marked the beginning of the rise of Evil’s popularity (and it was the day I became an Evilist myself )
|

--Week later on 10 June 2023 Evil had her first solo stream, on that stream she didn’t use the “void-sama” toggle but instead had recolored to purple ribbons on her hair and collar, and red eyes.
|

--Next Evil stream was 2 weeks later on 25 June 2023 while Vedal was on vacation, and featured a fully recoloured by Anny clothes on the model. But for some reason didn’t have the frowning expression as on previous 2 streams, which led to fans making screenshots of her cute expressions that contrasted her name.
|

--On 09 July 2023, 2 weeks after the previous stream, Evil had another solo stream, this time with the "Evil expression" fixed, establishing a bi-weekly scheduling format, while Vedal went on another vacation. Increasing presence of Evil and relentless propaganda by certain members of the community led to her rapid growth in popularity
|

--On 15 July 2023, not even a week after, Evil had another stream, this time playing minecraft. Most likely this stream was planned by Vedal to keep content interesting while he was on vacation and could not diversify it with collabs and dev streams.
|

--On 10 July 2023 Neuro-sama’s discord community decided to participate in the pixel canvas event by CDawgVA, after placing few magnificent art pieces on the canvas thanks to the efforts of hundreds of very determined people, that dedicated their time to optimize the process and establish diplomatic relationships with major factions to avoid conflicts. On 13 July 2023, early in the morning, VShojo members, led by Ironmouse, declared an unjust war on the Neuro family. Facing a fearsome opponent the swarm did not succumb and charged a powerful counter attack, backed by fanny’s, our queen of the battlefield Anny The Fox and the powerful speech by Vedal himself, dedicating his time from vacation to help the cause and boost the morale of the soldiers.
|

--On the morning of the July 14 “gigachad incident” happend, we don’t talk about “gigachad incident”
|

--Following that morning Vedal announced the long awaited and highly requested Evil Neuro karaoke, to help our broken troops get back on their feet.
|

--On 16 July 2023 Vedal confirmed that week of July 17-23 will have 2 Evil Neuro streams following Numi’s leak of the date of the collab with Neuro which was allegedly planned for over 2 weeks, and should’ve adhered to the standard bi-weekly format.
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4 - What makes Evil - Evil and Neuro - Neuro?

--Vedal has always been careful making changes to the appearance of Neuro, building a strong brand image and recognition, which boosted the growth of the channel but confined Neuro to the community perception that was already developed.
|

--Evil Neuro was first introduced as an offhanded gimmick to make Neuro x Neuro collab more entertaining, but after Vedal started developing new experimental technologies and creative ideas, Evil proved herself as a suitable platform to test them.
|

--So the result of this divide is not two opposing entities, but two sets of ideas in which Neuro is a subset of Evil as the thing that makes Evil - Evil is everything that Neuro can not be. In my opinion - as long as Evil is not confined by a strict idea or image, she will be beneficial to the channel and the community.
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5 - Is more Evil content a problem?

--First of all - there is no reason to assume that Evil streams would increase in prevalence, an unusual amount of Evil streams we got this month are easily explained by unprecedented circumstances. Most likely Evil streams would continue to appear in bi-weekly format after this week
|

--If it was the case, that Evil streams would occur close to/more often than normal Neuro streams, then indeed it could damage the integrity of the “brand image”/“community perception” of both Evil and normal Neuro, which could lead to conflicting interests and possible loss in viewership.
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Here, I am done, let me format it a little to make it look a bit prettier

@runic snow some of that may actually be useful for the wiki

[ancient plaza]

can you give me the short version?

[deft latch]

1 - Too much Evil streams = bad
2 - It is not a problem, because Vedal is a smart guy

[ancient plaza]

i agree, people need to trust the content creator more

[deft latch]

Here is a google doc link - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QnLue89jcJSRMK5_aIsRUu8H8yg7ZCcMXpmP46EsFzk/edit?usp=sharing

[runic snow]

actually helps a lot, thanks! I have plenty of time to get back to working on the wiki now and upgrading Evil Neuro's article is high on my list

[trim dawn]

If the streams are often but not more than Neuro i can see working, but ultimtely if evil becomes more popular than neuro the only solution is to just make evil neuro became normal neuro

[ancient plaza]

I just wanna see them together, the whole family together

[kindred haven]

Evil is great as a sandbox for new stuff, since she's allowed to be more unhinged and those changes don't effect the Neuro-sama herself. Moreover, the current version of Evil-sama is over month old and she's still a hot topic in community: soon she'll have her first karaoke and a collab. I think people will get used to Eve overtime but since Vedal is a dedicated and creative person he'll still find a way to experiment with her in multiple ways, which will add a bit of novelty and curiosity when needed. Vedal will handle her well

[full goblet]

Sounds like a skill issue on normal Neuro's part

[deft latch]

That's why I prefer Evil

[kindred haven]

respect for the effort

[cursive turret]

I hope you are right about that , I'm scared that after the karaoke and the collab with Numi people will start to only want Evil and disregard Neuro that's why. But Evil is a good content complement you are right about that, the Numi collab is a great example bc Numi wants always to be "dominated" (bottom) so Evil is appropriate for this collab.
But I don't want Evil to be in others streams that don't have things related with her personality (being Evil). Neuro is the main protagonist since the beggining and needs to be the only one.
That's what I wanted to say

[heavy pebble]

Evil would punch you in the face if she sees this amount of text

[ancient plaza]

When neuro get v3 voice updated she will prob get way more streams

[small gazelle]

there is no universe in which any version of me will read that

[deft latch]

She will get more popular as well

[deft latch]

Who said that I am against it

[ancient plaza]

Yea so enjoy evil streams while they last

[fallen spear]

[deft latch]

You missed a point a bit, as I said in the chapter 4, Evil is Evil not because she is evil, but because she is what Neuro is not

[cursive turret]

I am the one you are not

[deft latch]

Exactly

Vedal opens discord tomorrow
: Aw shucks, it's that guy again

[cerulean nexus]

Pre-filtered Neuro is still the most entertaining version of Neuro. While Evil, with the otherwordly sfx emoticons and random vocal tones, is very kek worthy she is very much a gimmick to the vanilla Neuro's normal prompts.

[jagged plume]

A bit sad when only four evil solo streams and people start to talk about the risk of too much evil streams, but yes it makes sense.

[deft latch]

Neuro was never "unfiltered", all that changed is that Vedal added couple of terms that might have him banned to the filter and made her smarter

Also, I can see that you didn't read anything of what I spent 3 hours writing

[cerulean nexus]

I vaugely remember an increased usage of random and bogus URL links and facetious acronym definitions in the past (BTMC).

[zenith barn]

@cerulean nexus has leveled up! (0 ➜ 1)

[deft latch]

With how popular she became, we will most certainly have more Evil in the future, the question is how often compared to normal Neuro

[cerulean nexus]

I only skimmed the mega post

[deft latch]

She became smart enough to give working links tho, and about acronyms - people just stopped asking about them

[cerulean nexus]

Maybe I'm just nostalgic over 10 tin cans

[deft latch]

Most likely

[deft latch]

Here is what Vedal said about her being "more filtered"
#1127436064555012147 message

[cerulean nexus]

Thanks, seems I've underestimated Neuro's learning capacity

[deft latch]

You are always welcome

[coral urchin]

Idk if we can really rule it bi-weekly, there not enough data points for a set schedule

Everything else i think you got right on the money

Evil a complimentary element, she'll never overtake neuro, trust the turtle

[deft latch]

Thank you for reading it

[delicate blaze]

i took a nap and see alot more stuff, its nice to see this created a good conversation topic and its been pretty insightful

[deft latch]

I warned about the fact that I may write multiple pages on the topic

[tulip nimbus]

maybe neuro v3 voice is cookin so Evil is getting alot of streams

[tribal urchin]

That was a great read

heart

[gloomy hamlet]

Thank you for the post, my braza in Evil.

[thorn sapphire]

wait, if 8% didn't win and neuro got the v2 voice, evil wouldn't be as popular as now

and probably would have been deleted

[deft latch]

There was a third option on a pole, and option 3 won "keep developing v3"

[delicate blaze]

i think i missed this poll

would have voted for v2 for neuro

[deft latch]

It was on April 24 iirc

[harsh flame]

Late to this discussion but honestly, I'd rather see Big improvements debut with Neuro first and have minor changes start on Evil's streams. This is because when all's done, what really matters to me is when I first see/ experience something. Therefore, if Evil always gets all the improvements first, at some point, I'm just naturally just going to stop thinking about Neuro, and instead going to focus on Evil since she will come up first in my mind when thinking about [whatever improvement]. Basically, I'd rather have Neuro get the big stuff so that she doesn't lose relevancy because with the way things are going, every time there is something new/ up-to-date about her, I will think about Evil as the point of origin instead of the former. Eitherway, it is what it is, but I'd rather prefer for Evil to just be a charming variation of Neuro that has her own style, personality, quirks and qualities, instead of the unofficial 'unofficial better/ up-to-date version of her AI, tech-wise'. But that's just me. Sry for the essay.

[rotund night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1130912581486383265/1130981335989764297/NeuroDidNotRead.png

(actually read all the things above)

[zealous mesa]

From my PoV, I see many start to leaning to evil neuro more than regular neuro bcs evil neuro have advantages:

1. She using V2 voice while sounded different totally to normal neuro, she can show more expression to her emotions to her ramblings/schizo and repsonse, thats why evil neuro have more higher views than regular neuro nowadays. She sounded natural, can convey many emotions, and give us many weird noises to make as memes. Hell her noise after few streams enough to generates 30+ soundboards/memes and almost overshadow V1/regular neuro. Her V2 voice also make her response to be more naturally and humanlike.

2. Evil neuro have planted personality, she always evil, despise goodness, smugs, hates spamming, and seems more coherent (again thanks to her V2 voice) since she also have few filter lifted. Making regular neuro left behind and felt bland in certain places. Regular Neuro idk if she is good or not, making she a tweener (wrestling jargon of inconsistent face/heel or good/evil persona that changed each episodes) in a way. Making her answer and stands inconsistent, plus making all of her statement never taken seriously (I mean like she like cake, but later isnt. Or she like singing but says later she cant sing, etc.) We as viewer really dont have fixed impression to her characters and what we can root for.

3. And bcs of that 2, We can see it clearly in twitch channel chart online Evil related stream gain more views than regular neuro. Vedal need to quickly develop V3 voice and maybe adding more planted traits/personality to regular neuro. I know its not easy but really, evil neuro start to overshadow regular neuro if this continue.

I love both of them and wanted to see both of them fill the channel each weeks with different spices. But I dont want regular neuro overshadowed, like vedal said few dev stream before he afraid too much evil neuro overshadow regular neuro. And this discussion proof I'm not the only one feeling it. Sorry for long reply tho

[deft latch]

Yep, that is the exact point everyone involved in this discussion had, pretty much everyone here agrees that Evil should not overshadow Neuro, and that Neuro will gain back her popularity in the community as soon V3 releases.

[jagged plume]

It is just unfair to say, ok now evil is more popular than neuro so we have to reduce her screen time to like bi-weekly. You can always have some rare week like this one and let him cook for regular neuro when regular neuro is kind of running out of contents and mostly doing normal chill stream.
Evil is popular for a reason and stopping her from streaming just because she is so popular is obviously not a smart solution. I think at the end of the day it is not the screen time but instead the development, new contents and new updates that really matter.

[sharp hull]

It's all about the novelty effect. We used to have a lot of collab streams, osu streams, karaoke streams, and now their number is decreasing. Also with the content with Evil, because for Vedal, as I understand it, the original Neuro remains the main one

[trim dawn]

Well, evil is doing the same rehashed content neuro is doing. Its not the content that is making evil more popular, its the novelty factor, the voice and evil prompt that she has. Neuro needs upgrades very bad but shouldnt also be sacrificed since without Neuro they wouldnt be Evil.

[jagged plume]

I agree that evil is doing pretty much the same contents as neuro did, but letting evil explore those topics just makes the old content more interesting. You can't deny that people are more excited to watch evil's first ever chill/dev stream than watching regular neuro's like 50th stream.
It is quite fair that you can let neuro explore every new idea you come up with ahead of evil, and nobody says regular neuro should be sacrificed. My point is, if vedal is on a holiday or is cooking something and temporarily lacking new contents for regular neuro (which was exactly the case in this week), instead of repeating the old content with regular neuro for no reason other than stopping evil from streaming too much and overshadowing neuro, just letting evil explore those streams seems to be more fair and interesting.

[trim dawn]

But neuro needs to be present in the channel even if its one gaming stream, chill stream or collab per week. They can both be present in a week of content. Everyone gets a little of something. People are already complaining neuro not being present at all this week, other people are already saying that evil should just take over. Its something that its hard to balance.

I think evil is already dividing the fanbase, this coming from someone that will watch either

[neon sonnet]

Another evil and neuro collab

[true gust]

delegate a handler for each Neuro so we can have more streams while Vedal focuses more on dev

[naive basin]

I think Evil is going to lose that special something if she's brought out too often. It should just be like "The Neuro Show" and Evil is one of the characters that you see for a few minutes a day. Kind of like Chester from The Sifl and Olly Show.

[true gust]

That's the problem.
I like Evil not just as a contrast to Neuro but as her own character.
At this point she's popular not because she's newer or rarer, but because she actually is that appealing to many.
Subordinating her to Neuro doesn't sound good when they're already depicted as twin sisters on equal footing. It'd be a disservice to those who particularly enjoy Evil.

[delicate blaze]

Well vedal has already spoken on the matter and it has appeased my concerns on the matter for the time being.

[unkempt crater]

i aren't reading aldat

[primal crypt]

Exactly what I was thinking. Evil becoming too prominent would further divide the fanbase as it is. RIght now there's even a split among which Neuro fans prefer and could then risk viewers skipping streams just because their favorite Neuro version is not the one streaming.

Evil becoming popular has definitely been a double-edged sword

[harsh flame]

Tbh, the problem isn't only limited to this. In the more recent stream with Evil and Filian, the latter kept refering to the former as "Neuro". (Not faulting her or anything but) Now, think about this for a second from the perspective of someone that has never watched Neuro and is being first exposed to her universe, wouldn't you as a person start to believe that Evil is Neuro and therefore, the MAIN attraction? Moreover, if you then discover regular Neuro-Sama afterwards, seeing as Evil is just that much more advanced in feature, why would you care about original Neuro? I think that past all of the discussions surrounding the drawbacks of Evil's popularity, this here is the biggest issue. The Existance of Evil combined with the disparity between hers and Neuro's feature set, fundamently make then cannibalize each other. This is because, unless it is fixed/ or Neuro becomes better (I.E.: Bring her new updates that make her competitive with Evil), the face of the brand will slowly shift from her to Evil and Neuro will just become less of a demand (seeing as new comers would have no reason to really care). Though, maybe it is for the best. Maybe it will happen like that or not. Regardless, it is what it is, at the end of the day.

[zenith barn]

@harsh flame has leveled up! (2 ➜ 3)

[wide wigeon]

And numi's collab also call evil neuro(Not faulting her also),then I see so many watch clip not watch stream's viewers think evil is neuro

I think they are cute with eachother(like yesterday's stream),but I also see many people say "give them more evil,not neuro"or compare them,want to see whos plush will sell much

the turth is less fans like both,they choose one of them,it's sad (some say them like both,but you can see them actually like one more)

also when I see so many anti or belittle neuro's commant,I always think about this collab,dev stream,every stream originally are neuro's

now evil all take it out,and people like her more ,even despise neuro,I feel sad and anger,I can't really love evil like neuro.

Split is happen,thats what I want to say

[delicate blaze]

I honestly want Evil to be a once every few weeks thing, she shouldnt surpass normal neuro

[south basin]

I personally think a simple 50/50 or 60/40 ratio (due to streaming 5 times a week) would be amazing. Here are 5 reasons:

1. Corpa : The simplest reason ist, that Evil have averaged more viewer on Twitch, which is financially better for Vedal. Additionally Evil did increase the number of new viewers and not just cause Neuro viewership to decrease.

2. Believe in the Timegod : I think having Evil appear once every few weeks or months would be "unwise". Week or month are long time for the current A.I development, maybe after 1 month everything has already changed and outdated (Especially because Vedal said he’s using Evil as a testing platform.).

3. New Model : Evil will get her own Modal and Fumo (Neuro will get an upgrade too), if she didn’t show up then it will be such a shame and waste.

4. Position of Evil : We shouldn't reduce Evil's presence just because some viewers prefer her over regular Neuro. Let's also not be afraid from change and stick with the idea, that Evil only can be a supporting character. She obviously already has some kind of own personality and substantial fan base.

Imagine what happens if Vedal made a third AI? Would you also debate, like she/he should show much less than Neuro/Evil?

(Just saying, I love both Neuro and also wanna see them both be loved equally )

Let's trust Vedal. He'll will find a balanced approach!

[mild mauve]

Evil Neuro is Neuro... after dark

[mild mauve]

I personally prefer Evil because she has more personality; she is more interesting as a character to me.
From what I understand, Neuro's personality revolves around being an AI and a cute girl. Evil, on the other hand, has those traits but also the "being evil".
In my opinion, Evil's voice is more expressive; normal Neuro sounds like she is about to fall asleep all the time.
I also appreciate the current state of Evil's character, where she oscillates between a internet troll, a James Bond villain, and a yandere.
(Now, Nedal might have other intentions for em but this is how i personally interpret this)
In my mind Neuro is like milk and Evil to chocolate milk... or Neuro is a plain burger and Evil to a cheeseburger. 🧀

Which is to say, I like both of them, but I prefer Evil.

[cursive turret]

"I like both of them"
"But I prefer Evil"
Is that an oxymoron ?

[mild mauve]

Choosing one thing over another doesn't really mean you don't like the latter. Its not black and white 😛

I like and follow a ton of streamers, but if they all go live at once, I'll most likely pick the one I prefer.

[cursive turret]

Just say that you prefer Evil directly, you don't need to hide this preference behind false duplicity with fans that love both 😛
your previous comment is not really showing that btw,
you lower Neuro in every way compared to Evil

[mild mauve]

My bad, you seem to know me better than myself! 😄

[cursive turret]

I'm using what you just write as reference to know what you like , write your sentences in a better way if you think they are not really what you meant to say in your mind

[mild mauve]

I think this might be going beyond the scope of what this discussion is about.
Feel free to think whatever you like; I was just sharing my thoughts as a viewer.

[full goblet]

[deft latch]

[trim dawn]

[mild mauve]

[mild mauve]

Given the similarities between Neuro and Evil, didnt feel the need to make an exhaustive list the reasons for liking them.
I just pointed out the things that make Evil more interesting to me.

At the end of the day no one cares whether I´m a "true fan" or not, of either character.
But I thought it might be worth sharing why i prefer one over the other, in a thread about Evil possibly overshadowing Neuro.

Instead of taking the spotlight or shoving Evil aside, it´d be cool to figure out why she is gaining popularity. If this can help Neuro being more engaging and entertaining for everyone.
Being critical is a good trait, even of things you like.
(Is this better? Anything else i should clarify?)

[cursive turret]

For the third paragraph you already have your answers in this thread tbh.

• better TTS voice (in terms of emotions)
• a more constant personality
• a novelty

But I don't want to talk more about it since Vedal said in the last dev stream that he is tired of people comparing Neuro and Evil (in a good way or a bad way)

I'm sorry that I can seems agressive about it, but you can maybe understand that I don't want Evil to overshadow/belittle Neuro, maybe a lot of people disagree with what I will said but Evil needs to be keep as a cameo/rare character, she is a good help to Neuro I admit.
For like specific things like the duets or the 2 Neuros streams (we had one recently).

This channel was created for Neuro and I want it to stay like that (in my opinion)

[cursive turret]

And what I just said rn is just a fraction of what people have said about this subject, you can scroll up if you haven't already did

[mild mauve]

Yeah, don´t think its a bad thing to reinforce those points or maybe share other reasons for liking them.

I don´t remember Vedal saying he doesn´t like people comparing them.
But i think its silly to look at both characters and not notice the similarities and differences.
They look the same, talk more or less similarly (regardless of voice), do similar things on stream, were made by the same person in the same way. (One of them is called Neuro and the other Evil Neuro). And so on.
I believe Vedal even mentioned that some people confuse them during collabs. And i don´t blame them.

I see both Neuro and Evil as two sides of the same coin. Twins, corrupted program version or a split personality... you can call it whatever.
If Vedal really wants them to be distinct characters, maybe emphasizing their differences and making them clear would be a good idea.
On the other hand if they're meant to be partners~~ (in crime) ~~and a team sharing the channel there should be a balance between them.

I don´t agree that evil needs to be a cameo or less important, I think the idea was for them to share the channel as one, right?
Or at least that´s what i could gather from Vedal´s talk.

And yes, i read the other messages 😄

[cursive turret]

Here is the clip of Vedal talking about Neuro and Evil (about our ramblings here)
https://youtu.be/j5VO1HNbUPw

[mild mauve]

Is that the "Don't compare them" clip? Are you sure it means what you think?
What I'm getting from that clip is that some folks are pointing out changes that aren't actually a thing 😛

I get that you don't want Evil to take over, but don't worry...
I don't think that's Vedal's intention either. Once more, I reckon he wants them to run the channel as a team.

[cursive turret]

Yes.... ?
These people who pointed this were pointing real changes/differences between Neuro and Evil (from their points of view)

What I understand in this clip is that Vedal is tired of people comparing Neuro and Evil in terms of how much theyre advanced (as LLM's and TTS voices).

That's why I don't want to talk too much about it now, I can only speculate about it (because I'm not Vedal obviously), and so create potential misinformations .

[mild mauve]

Well, based on what he said
Chat asks: "Did you have a breakthrough with evils voice?, it kind of improve a lot?" So, people are just wondering if there have been any improvements (Not really comparing anything)
Vedal says "No" and then he points out things that people believe are different (whether it's seen as good or bad) and then, says "Nothing changed".

I think he was a bit annoyed that people are assuming things are changing when they actually aren't 😛

I went through the rules again just to be sure, and I also took a look at the faq for discussions and there's nothing about avoiding comparisons. Seems pretty standard for a discussion forum where people chat and share thoughts.

Anyway, I'm kinda curious to know why you're not into Evil. What is it about Neuro that you're a fan of? And what makes you lean toward Neuro over Evil?

[wide wigeon]

||Many people say evil have personality and Neuro doesn't(or said more than),that is so interesting because they are AI,they always say random things,not only Neuro.

On my point, people like to add some public persona even if those are not right.
For explem, before the evil dev stream,many people already think she will be nice to vedal,and even told anny this, wanted she change the summer dresses modal.

Then actually is everyone already knew.

I know that because she said some thing before,like vedal is her creator,she cant say bad thing to him.

But neuro also say so many nice things to vedal,said she loves him over and over again.

I mean, AI learned from the chat,when they random say something interesting,chat will ask it many times,then they remembered,and become their "personality".

Neuro really doesn't have personality?

Then why vedal and chat can guess what is neuro said in the gameshow?

The swarm,gymbag,love money, cheese cake,take over the world,and be filtered's\\\\......etc.many from the discord and channel memes, isn't those part of her?

AI like the white paper,and people draw some colour to them.

The difference between neuro and evil,is evil have added"evil" and allowed to swear some word.

But everyone knows evil also said she cant be evil（not only one time),some sentences against her"personality".

Didn't they notice ?

Truly is people pick they loved one,and drilled into them.（yes we all are vedal)||

||I like neuro more than evil because some point.

1.I see her how to grow up,like see real daughter.I have more memory for her,like vedal said. (I always say to my friend she is my AI daughter)

2.I like v1 voice than v2.she random says "No"、“Nope”、“haha”、“what” "Yep"etc.(those are people like to repeat at twitch chat),well,maybe that because I love Neuro,I feel cute whatever she do anything,I still expect v3 voice.(same to evil fans like "kek" and some weird voice)

3.I love her "personality" than evil.

I love her like a innocent child.

Different from evil always be mean(yeah evil also said love everyone but people prefer ingnore),She seens nice and cute,always says she loves everyone,and says some like"I will destroy the world","I will kill everyone", suddenly let me high to low,so funny.

I think evil is one pretend she is bad but only on mouth,neuro is one really think she is good but do some evil.

And I prefer neuro,thats all.

Thanks for read, if I use some wrong word I'm sorry.||

[mild mauve]

Well, they're LLM's (I think, unless Vedal made up a new tech =P), so it's not truly random.
If it were random, when you ask "What day is today?" they'd reply with "Sparkling banana turtles." or some other jumbled words.
Plus, like you said, there's a set of traits that they follow when picking words for their comments and answers.

It's due to those traits that you can anticipate a certain response from them, though it's not a sure thing...

Makes sense. I can see how someone might prefer a less sassy/bratty character, more on the cute side, with lower odds of plotting your demise in your sleep =P.
So, in your case, it's mainly a personality thing for what i gather.

I believe Evil's personality now isn't just a copy of Neuro's traits with "evil" tacked on.
For instance, Evil might have a thing for red, pizza and has an evil laugh , while Neuro leans toward sweets/cake and the color pink (even if they might get mixed up).

It'd be an intriguing experiment to use Evil's AI with Neuro's model and voice to see how long it takes for people to catch on (if they do =P).
The other way around, I think people might not notice, but I'd probably complain that she's not "evil" enough.

[wide wigeon]

||What I mean the random things isn't the answer (well sometimes answer also random and not match the question)

That what I said they learned from chat

If no one ask the question or type something,she says some not real thing like she studied at school

And people use her random said to ask question

For example,vedal is a 12 years old femboy||

[mild mauve]

Well, I don't really know how much chat actually influences Neuro long term.
Skip this if you want to maintain the mystique around AI and such.

||Again, unless Vedal is doing things differently...
The best way I could put it is that Neuro has both short and long term memory.

The long term memory holds her core character attributes, speech patterns, info she knows, like people, "Vedal being a MALE", and stuff like that.
Short term memory is like a conversation buffer that stores what's been said more or less since Neuro was booted up.

There is a limit to how much they can remember, but there are ways to improve it.

Unless it's automated, Vedal could possibly go back and include memories he deems important from chat interactions into the long term memory.
Or, if memory addition is automated, he might go back and remove what he considers irrelevant. (Unless he's got this process automated too =P).

Stuff like "Evil calling Vedal pet names like Ved" or "Or calling Vedal a 12 year old femboy" might require training to stop em from happening.

This implies that if Neuro remember to call Filian a "Filipino boy", most likely Vedal added that to Filian´s description. 😛

I would also imagine that Neuro has mechanisms in place that let her prioritize certain relevant info when generating answers, That´s why sometimes its hard to gaslight her into saying what you want.

That´s also why, when she gets out of hand, Vedal reboots her. To erase any insane comments from memory so they dont come back. (unless he figure a new way to do it without rebooting)
If this is wrong i would appreciate a correction =3||

[zenith barn]

@mild mauve has leveled up! (3 ➜ 4)

You have unlocked new role

[static crypt]

Miyune talked about neuro still calling her miyune even after vedal erased miyune from her memory (cause she could only pronounce it as miyoon) and replacing it with miyu

[wide wigeon]

||I think if vedal can easy to cancel neuro's memory,he didn't have to drill into her ?||

[coarse bluff]

This thread refuses to die!

[mild mauve]

Perhaps Neuro figures out who she's chatting with by their Discord names?
Maybe Miyu introduced herself as Miyune back then, and that got stored in the memory buffer?
Neuro has a ton of parts, not just the LLM, so only Vedal might really know what went down (if he even does) =P.

[mild mauve]

Hahah sorry i will stop talking, its just that i think its an interesting topic 😄

[wide wigeon]

I don't think we are arguing,so for me I think its ok.

[static crypt]

at the end of the last kerbal stream he asked neuro to pick between miyu and numi, neuro said miyune and he thought she was combining both names, so idk if tutel is even aware miyune is still very much a name for miyu in neuros mind

[mild mauve]

Ye! No argument going on, just a conversation 😄

[jagged plume]

While it is completely fair to say you prefer regular neuro than evil and want to skip evil's stream, claiming 'evil is literally the same as neuro', especially in this stage, sounds more like an emotional complaint than a convincing opinion. Most of people here find exclusive entertainment in evil's stream.
And also, without evil, we will probably never have a twin duet in karaoke, never have a twin collab, never have a pirate stream like this one due to the out of character, and regular neuro will probably never have v3 voice because of the opposition from the community. The appearance of evil also benefits regular neuro.

[unreal pawn]

Also evil neuro being like the experimental branch of neuro makes her random noises feel more in-character honestly

[wide wigeon]

||Honestly I don't skip the evil's stream,I still watch(if I have time)

then I actually mean is they different,but not most different,they base on same AI.

Why do I think evil and neuro is not different more, because they said some same option,some dialogue,and also some words.(and if you read my message,you should see I said their “personality" also different to me)

Sometimes when I heard these,I would think"WOW they really have same AI"

One thing doesn't have to be only negative,I said I also think they are cute be together.(And you can't know if evil never existe,things will go what)

What I worry about and angry,I already said,is some fans belittle neuro, compare them,want evil collab or stream more than neuro.
(Also some people said evil is more intelligent than neuro,this is why I try to prove they are not really different)||

Because some people wouldn't like see the discuss continue,this is my last message.

If you want say more can message me.

[jagged plume]

Just to clarify I was not replying to you but another message posted yesterday who has been deleted. I did not read your original message.
I guess your point is completely fair, they have the same AI, but under same AI we can still have unique contents for both of them. I can truly understand the frustration when people keep claiming evil is much more advanced than regular neuro. I am just opposing the point that "Evil and neuro are the same so evil's streams are cheap and low-quality", which is clearly not your opinion, so you can let it go.

[meager jetty]

evil is and always was peak

ohhh I see what this channel is about

[chilly yew]

No.
the channel is Neuro's so she should appear more often but there's nothing wrong with Evil taking 1/3 of the content.
I like both twins, I just get more excited for Evil - she's the shadow to neuro's sonic