Ahh
#REVERSED! (EDH) Assistance!
rough yew
rough yew
Aristocrat sacky tokens
A few combos as game closers but not the main focus, some edict control too
deft belfry
have you played those cards before
i am seeing a lot of good stuff pile
so there arent much cohesiveness/synergy to cut from
if tagged i can try to narrow down the over redundant pile
rough yew
I feel like most of the non Staples are there to either make tokens to sacc or sacc outlet or sacc playoffs like grave pact
The rest is just ramp and removal which all decks need
deft belfry
so how many ramp do you have and how many do you think you need
i dont see a clear game plan turn by turn
rough yew
Always 11 or 12
rough yew
i dont see a clear game plan turn by turn
Set up value engine control the table with edicts until you can fish for one of your combos or burn them to death with pings
Lots of land ramp to facilitate the untap effect
deft belfry
for a combo deck, i dont see the need of [[asceticism]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Enchantment
Creatures you control have hexproof.
: Regenerate target creature. (The next time it would be destroyed this turn, instead tap it, remove it from combat, and heal all damage on it.)
"Let my ignominy build walls thicker than iron and stronger than darksteel." —Thrun, the last troll
rough yew
It's not turbo into combo, that was a potential cut tho yes, there's just not much to protect the commander with i feel tho
deft belfry
the sacrifice part seems meh to me
rough yew
What's it missing?
rough yew
I'm not sure what you mean with that seeing as to me it's just the bones of the deck, ramp, draw, interaction, I guess oppo agent is good stuff?
deft belfry
its like a template, if i have 30 of one thing, 30 of another, 30 of the last one, i dont have room for anything else unless it has the overlap
rough yew
I try to make all decks with 11-12 ramp and interaction which is about a quarter of my deck usually
Do I focus on either tokens or sac?
deft belfry
i would just have the best version of each card and it is either waiting for a powercreep or on the verge of getting cut when something that do more comes out
this deck can win without commander
so getting to 7 mana isnt necessary
its not exactly build around the commander
rough yew
Oh no yeah that's the point commander is just a value engine
deft belfry
like a tendershoot dryad is basically doing the same thin
rough yew
Yeah I'm aware
deft belfry
[[dreadhorde invasion]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
just a worse bitter blossom
but its also basically the same card
assume there is a way to sac
then powercreep from lorwyn got the bitter blossom+
and before finding a card, it is finding another add because there isnt orchish bowmaster
rough yew
Hmmmmm that could work yeah
deft belfry
idk if i am getting that point across, i dont think you can make cuts for this type of deck unless you know exacly what you want to the T
deft belfry
it would be more like,
i was 36% of drawing this type of card, 17% of drawing this one, 12% tutor into combo piece
this is a deck where you would plug each number into the calculator to fine tune
idk how you want to do your optimization
if i am to use [[field of the dead]] i would have a high land count
shrewd zealotBOT
Land
This land enters tapped.
: Add 
.
Whenever this land or another land you control enters, if you control seven or more lands with different names, create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.
rough yew
It's not necessarily optimised
rough yew
The way I usually build decks is to take a fun idea and make it do well and add good cards to it, my prime example is this one https://moxfield.com/decks/Sjww3Ygzy06ZJ3wmTuJ0aA
I'm making beledros for someone in the same way I usually deckbuild as they want to get into edh and really liked the card
rough yew
are you not trying to build for B4?
All my other decks outside that one I made pre brackets
deft belfry
its too tight for cuts and add what i see is like a deck with 30 of the same card doing the same thing
rough yew
I try to have redundancy yeah, I'll probs cut the enchantment tho
deft belfry
[[manamorphose]] x30
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
deck will do the same thing everytime but i cant make cuts
rough yew
I think I'm seeing what you mean, I just have to cut some redundancy?
deft belfry
pretty much
rough yew
The way I usually build decks is to take a fun idea and make it do well and add ...
Could you please look at this list if that's Oki? It's a pet deck.
rough yew
The goal is to win with combat damage, there's one combo on there with trade routes but it's unsearchable
rough yew
You might be right but I've never had that unbanned so I'm curious xd
deft belfry
does it have to be all sphinx creature only
rough yew
No
But I want a good enough volume
The number I came up with was 19 at least I think
deft belfry
[[archmage of runes]] hmmm dont need the cost reduction so [[archmage emeritus]] will do
shrewd zealotBOT
Creature — Giant Wizard
Instant and sorcery spells you cast cost less to cast.
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, draw a card.
He's so intent on his study that others think him frozen in place.
3/6
deft belfry
yeah i dont need to touch the sphinx portion at all
rough yew
There's probs some better ones now but
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
As this artifact enters, choose a creature type.
Creatures you control of the chosen type get +1/+1.
: Add one mana of any color.
With thistle, quill, twig, and beak, the finest artisans of each animalfolk society stitched unique quilts, patched together as a symbol of harmony.
deft belfry
[[heralds horn]] is meh
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
As this artifact enters, choose a creature type.
Creature spells you cast of the chosen type cost less to cast.
At the beginning of your upkeep, look at the top card of your library. If it's a creature card of the chosen type, you may reveal it and put it into your hand.
deft belfry
not enough for it to matter and blue can do better
rough yew
It's just that they cost soooo much
deft belfry
[[water crystal]]?
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Artifact
Blue spells you cast cost less to cast.
If an opponent would mill one or more cards, they mill that many cards plus four instead.
, : Each opponent mills cards equal to the number of cards in your hand.
"Crystal of water, may you regain your light." —Aria Benett
rough yew
My main issue with it is commander reliance tbh
deft belfry
true
rough yew
Yeah that would be an add
deft belfry
i would never do sky diamon here
rough yew
I just haven't updated any decks since neon dynasty kamigawa
shrewd zealotBOT
rough yew
i would never do sky diamon here
While I'm aware I usually do not like moxen in these kinds decks because it's not turbo combo
rough yew
is there a combo with the [[!crpytic gateway]]
Nah it's just hilarious let's me dump hand with my commander it almost makes sphinxes feel like cascade
rough yew
I have a few draw engines there I think
deft belfry
33 lands doesnt make sense to me
rough yew
It's my usual baseline for decks I haven't had issues with it because I tend to run 12 ramps
Tho maybe this deck is different it's so expensive
rough yew
Xd
deft belfry
if i can ramp T2 ramp growth, T3 [[!skyshroud claim]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i only have 7 mana to work with after hitting 4 land drops
your commander dependent deck is a 6 drop
rough yew
Yeah this is one of my weaker decks imo
deft belfry
mox let you adjust your mana cost of cards
rough yew
It's why it's called baddest deck
deft belfry
while i cant say you will always cast [[treasure criuse]] at a one 
shrewd zealotBOT
Sorcery
Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for .)
Draw three cards.
Countless delights drift on the surface while dark schemes run below.
deft belfry
i would assume you never cast it for the full cost
rough yew
I like cruise cause my commander mills me a bunch
deft belfry
so in the "change mana value" you can make it like 
instead for example
you can do similar things to lot if not all your sphinx
usually the big ones that cost more than 5 since you want to play commander on 6
so the 6 drop sphinx are basically 4 drops
rough yew
Feels unfair because it assumes my commander lives
It's also why I run stuff like heralds horn tbh and reductions in cost
Blue medallion urzas incubators etc
deft belfry
its to know how much mana you actually need to cast stuff
rough yew
I see
deft belfry
urza incubator is the same as a [[worn power stone]] the first time you use that reduction
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
This artifact enters tapped.
: Add .
Even a fragment of a powerstone contains within it not just energy, but space—vast dimensions trapped in fragile crystal.
deft belfry
in fact, if you can only use that incubator once with a single sphinx cast
it can become worse [[$worn power stone]]
rough yew
With commander and another reduction I can often chain a few sphinxes together
shrewd zealotBOT
rough yew
Once sphinxes are only like 2 blue I can just vomit a board out and fact or fiction a bunch
deft belfry
yeah, so the more sphinx you get out, the better the value it becomes
and thats the other thing
WHERE IS THAT [[fact of fiction]]
shrewd zealotBOT
rough yew
Often games where I won go from commander into a sphinx then into a bunch of sphinxes cast extra turn and do it again while attacking
deft belfry
yeah i see all that extra turn spells
rough yew
its not even in the deck
I'm refering to my commander effect
deft belfry
idk what pod you play with
rough yew
When sphinx etb I get to fof
rough yew
Commander makes every sphinx fof not just itself
deft belfry
i am aware
rough yew
why not get the real F or F for 4 mana
It's so I can get fof whenever I cast a sphinx so I can keep casting more beatsticks that fly with ok effects xd
deft belfry
i wouldnt put [[automatic automaton]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
even if it cost 0 mana
but i guess you may think otherwise
[[universal automaton]]
shrewd zealotBOT
rough yew
Yeah I wanted to run actual sphinxes
deft belfry
[[ghostly flicker]]
shrewd zealotBOT
rough yew
I just love Egyptian stuff hence it's my pet deck I put restrictions on on purpose
rough yew
[[ghostly flicker]]
The only reason I didn't put flickers is because it feels winmore as I already need my commander out for it to work
deft belfry
do you own all those
rough yew
Yes
deft belfry
all you decks seems more expensive than proxies
rough yew
You're looking at more of my decks XD?
deft belfry
no just 2 out of 2
rough yew
Ah
Can I show one more and get some thoughts on it, don't need recommendations necessarily but I'm curious
It's esp cause my lists are kinda older now
deft belfry
rough yew
Jesus neon dynasty was 2022
deft belfry
so its mono blue narset in disguise
rough yew
I always call them my blue craterhoof in this deck as they often more so act as extra combats
deft belfry
extra turn combat
rough yew
Kinda ish? But with critical mass of bird cats?
Dunno
It's just sphinx tribal with good cards tbh xd
deft belfry
i am not against expensive good cards, do you play any bad cards at all
rough yew
i am not against expensive good cards, do you play any bad cards at all
Does most of the creature section count
rough yew
This is my Voltron deck which has a commander that essentially does "nothing" value wise but I like her https://moxfield.com/decks/zjywFrTNdEyS16B4ViMbDw
deft belfry
its protection tho
rough yew
Yeah and flying
rough yew
Nah just this one actually
deft belfry
or all green decks
rough yew
And that new one
It's because it gives the deck more time to beatdown
I have 2 cards that do similar it's when I have a big commander and want to attempt to swing for win with my 15/15 double strike
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[flawless maneuver]]
shrewd zealotBOT
rough yew
Dang that should be in there true
deft belfry
flare cards from MH3
forgot the white one its basically watered down T pro, [[flare of cultivation]]
shrewd zealotBOT
rough yew
Cultivation is mid imo
deft belfry
tap mana dork, get land to hand play for turn
so it get rid of 2 cards in the library and gets closer to hitting hand drops
rough yew
It's small tempo I sacrifice 1 dork for 1 land and a land draw in hand but if that flare was a land instead I'd be more consistent could keep the dork and still have that "extra" land in hand
deft belfry
fewer lands = more gas on draw
rough yew
Also dorks>lands when my wincon is mld
Wincon is null rod effect+mld+ big commander to swing
cold quartz
yeah thats why i threw in [[kayas intervention]] to help with exiling, and something more telegraphed in b2 feels fine, also threw in another rebirth type effect for instant speed protection, i did find some card advantage stuff in rakdos to include like [[diresight]] which is a 2nd copy of [[risky research]] along with a couple [[wrenns resolve]]
cold quartz
yeah thats true, but at least its mana positive if i spend 1 mana to bring it back then transform on end step instead of 6 to replay so i still think its very worth imo
cold quartz
possibly, i cant remember, i do like that in this deck though 5 mana sounds like a lot for the current list maybe, that being said im also considering adding [[caldera pyremaw]] never seen the card before and it sounds kinda cool for this list
shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
yeah i could see that, been running into a lot of big money artifacts lately though so i do want some artiact disruption for sure
deft belfry
rather than cantrip 0
cold quartz
oh yeah i could see that being good, i always forget to run those when i have a lot of takenuma series cards or mdfcs
yeah that one is sick for this deck
deft belfry
my budget ass dont have most of the MDFC 😢
takenuma is in my mono color deck do i dont have bounce land
cold quartz
yeah very true, i was thinking about that when looking at the list, i never play typal decks though, are there good wipes i could run where i can exclude wizards?
deft belfry
you already have crippling fear
cold quartz
[[kayas ghostform]] not intervention
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
is commander 4 cost
rough yew
fewer lands = more gas on draw
I still want to draw land with a 33 count i feel as im also maxed on fetches and saccing a dork just feels like it goes against the deck plan only land ramp I have is enchant based so I can at least get value from it
cold quartz
i thought i told you dire the first time XD
you might have haha
cold quartz
is commander 4 cost
yeah its a 4
deft belfry
so [[extinction event]] can work
shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
impulse draw i am meh on unless there are impulse synergy
yeah im also meh on impulse but i gotta do what i gotta do in nonblue 😄
deft belfry
small power may also work nicely with [[nightmare unmaking]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
I still want to draw land with a 33 count i feel as im also maxed on fetches and...
indestructible lands?
nvm those are artifact
cold quartz
hmm i like extintion more than nightmare, 5 mana wrath that i cant control reliably would stress me, and theres a lot of really good creatures with like 2 power or something
cold quartz
my budget ass dont have most of the MDFC 😢
yeah they are quite spendy
rough yew
indestructible lands?
The wincon "combo" is armageddon effect+null rod effect so I can beatdown in peace and not have the "I'm starting to one shot people one by one so every turn the remaining players will do anything they can to kill my commander with a bunch of auras on it" problem. I built my ramp around this plan hence the forks and no conventional land ramp and no rocks outside of ring.
deft belfry
may consider getting some over sea proxy with so much UB stuff nowadays
33 lands + mana dork is overall very greedy mana base
so its not like there is a "fix" to it
rough yew
baiscally a second null rod
I have ouphe and stony silence as second and third null rod :p
deft belfry
MDFC would be cards you love tho
since they can be nonland spells
idk what LGS or games you pair with, those decks would be the stompers unless everyone knows about them
young nova
I don’t mean to jump in a break up y’all talking but if you get a chance I’d love for you to look at my deck! https://archidekt.com/decks/13392523/as_the_world_falls_down
rough yew
I don't think my decks were stompers when I played I played online a lot like every other day
Also with friends I made online while playinf
deft belfry
as long as you pair with the right pod
it will work
but LGS often dont have the highest power
so it will be extremely difficult to find the right table
rough yew
We would have my friend with golos non deterministic combo another one krenko degeneracy another one avacyn mld and me with like simic landfall or smth and it was fine
rough yew
I played in playedh mostly, midpower
deft belfry
and reduce salt
rough yew
I always qued there no pregame talk needed
deft belfry
what you shown are mostly high power
rough yew
Nah, i have high power lists that would trash these that i played in highpower there
I have meren Hulk for example with all fast mana low to the ground
deft belfry
one misstep and you will be branded as the archenemy of the table
if they are aware of MLD as win con for example
rough yew
One thing I'm wondering is why brackets go from using a few good cards to fringe cedh in a single bracket though
deft belfry
bracket wasnt that kind of system
rough yew
Where's that leave room for the decks with a more b3 ish gameplay but b4 card quality
See, sphinxes
Etc
deft belfry
then you need a B3 game but unlimited game changers table talk
rough yew
Midpower there was basically a b3.5
deft belfry
bracket is a messer mess than you think
cold quartz
i would also argue a lot of b3 lists are really b2 with a few game changers thrown in because they dont want it to be b2
deft belfry
XD
cold quartz
the amount of green players with 0 interaction i find online is..concerning
deft belfry
anyways i am looking at the saruman deck
cold quartz
or gruul
deft belfry
I don’t mean to jump in a break up y’all talking but if you get a chance I’d lov...
was this the result of having low creature saruman or was that someone else
rough yew
the amount of green players with 0 interaction i find online is..concerning
Insanity true
deft belfry
i dont like seeing worn powerstone here with 3 colours
rough yew
If I que bracket 4 here will i have a hard time with my decks?
young nova
was this the result of having low creature saruman or was that someone else
I’m not sure what you mean?
deft belfry
If I que bracket 4 here will i have a hard time with my decks?
that i cant atest to since i never played B4 here in fact i never played online because i dont ahve the set up
young nova
i dont like seeing worn powerstone here with 3 colours
Same here honestly I have it in my mind to cut
rough yew
ah oki
deft belfry
I’m not sure what you mean?
must be someone else planning on making sarauman
just got myself a [[Astrologian's Planisphere]] waiting to play it
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Job select (When this Equipment enters, create a 1/1 colorless Hero creature token, then attach this to it.)
Equipped creature is a Wizard in addition to its other types and has "Whenever you cast a noncreature spell and whenever you draw your third card each turn, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature."
Diana — Equip 
cold quartz
not in blue 😄
deft belfry
yet i don think this token is going to be able to swing through too well
cold quartz
probably not
deft belfry
it is sarauman and lot of spells
young nova
I’ve had it in the deck for a bit now and unfortunately I haven’t pulled it so I can’t judge it yet
cold quartz
essentially a 2 drop otter on an artifact though so it could do some work
young nova
I think it will work well do to the amount of non creature spells and in my mind it may work as just another large body while everyone focuses on the army
deft belfry
do you want the win con to be burn, mill, combat?
cold quartz
oh wait its not prowess the counters stay on, that sounds kinda heat on a 2 drop actually, but only if you want to tempo instead of ramping to your commander
deft belfry
yep counter stays
young nova
do you want the win con to be burn, mill, combat?
Combat is the main one. I have burn so that it hopefully trickles down life when I can’t get in.
deft belfry
the lack of evasion is hard to convert those counters into direct payoff tho
lot of things in blue can turn things unblockable
young nova
Yeah 100%
deft belfry
so [[blasphemous act]] was mentioned earlier
shrewd zealotBOT
Sorcery
This spell costs less to cast for each creature on the battlefield.
Blasphemous Act deals 13 damage to each creature.
It was a blunt metaphor: No legacies. No past. From here, the Turtles must choose to live in the present. Or not at all.
deft belfry
in this type of deck, it is much easier to protect commander, and with 9 cmc, it can turn the token to be way too big to kill
so the potential of one sided wipe + unblocker army can be part of the plan
blue has [[wave good bye]][[perplexing test]] etc
young nova
I actually just cut this card for an odd reason. All the cards but one of over 5 mana since I’ve been wanting to see if dance with calamity is a playable card. Although if this plan does not work I do agree blasphemous act is great in all respects.
Both of those cards are great!
deft belfry
i stopped using B act because it felt too generic and always works too well XD, and i only want to do it when i have my [[stuffy doll]] or Judith lifelink out
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact Creature — Construct
Indestructible
As this creature enters, choose a player.
Whenever this creature is dealt damage, it deals that much damage to the chosen player.
: This creature deals 1 damage to itself.
0/1
cold quartz
https://scryfall.com/card/clb/875/stuffy-doll
hahaha thats sick
young nova
i stopped using B act because it felt too generic and always works too well XD, ...
Real for that honestly
deft belfry
i love cheating mana cost tho consider how many of my favourite commander all cares about some form of cost reduction
thats the nice thing about [[!sarauman the white hand]] which cares about the mana value rather than mana paid
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
rn my favourite deck is casting dumb things with [[Rowan scion of war]] i [[!kabomb]]ed the table including myself for an avg of 18 damage every time so far
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Menace
: Spells you cast this turn that are black and/or red cost 
less to cast, where X is the amount of life you lost this turn. Activate only as a sorcery.
"No more days withering at a negotiating table with my brother. I will rebuild Eldraine myself—the old way, with power."
4/2
deft belfry
[[!kaboom]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
its bad but its fun and funny
anyways, if you find ways to reduce casting cost, that would be really good here
cold quartz
your games must be so much fun mon hahaha
young nova
Yeah it’s a really cool part of his ability. I love it with the 2 X spells. [[!Assult on Osgiliath]] and [[!Summons of Saruman]]
deft belfry
your games must be so much fun mon hahaha
depends on the day, i am also the worst things combine XD
but yeah i aim for the low salt cards
young nova
anyways, if you find ways to reduce casting cost, that would be really good here
I do need to find a good way to reduce cost
I mainly need them to be non-creatures tho
deft belfry
the problem with [[semblance anvil]] is that
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
Imprint — When this artifact enters, you may exile a nonland card from your hand.
Spells you cast that share a card type with the exiled card cost less to cast.
Forged from what it forges.
young nova
That is a nice card
young nova
It’s like [[!cloud key]] but not
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
thematic sad golem in exile
young nova
Hahaha
young nova
Yeah it’s half the effect without the “downside”
deft belfry
so its a good place to test out
and the fun part in blue
you can always make clones
[[relm's sketching]] i havent draw my in a game yet but i am so excited for it
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
even if it just ends up being a ramp growth XD
young nova
I didn’t even know of this card
deft belfry
as someone who knows nothing about FF i am really liking the FF UB stuff
young nova
I was thinking of adding clones so I could have more armies
young nova
You did tell someone a good add from FF earlier that could be great in this deck. The red adventure land!
deft belfry
[[sky kit conspire]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[spy kit conspir]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
young nova
[[spy kit]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and has all names of nonlegendary creature cards in addition to its name.
Equip
Imitation is the sincerest form of treachery.
deft belfry
yep i read the set name
as part of the card
oh fuck and its not even the right card
[[psychic paper]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact — Equipment
As this Equipment becomes attached to a creature, choose a creature card name and a creature type.
Equipped creature has ward , it can't be blocked, and its name and creature type are the last chosen name and creature type.
Equip
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
🥲
young nova
Yeah I was reading the rules on amass dice I thought spy kit didn’t work
deft belfry
pick a name barbaricmos pick army
you can now create your own army on any equiped creature
young nova
Yeah that’s a fun idea wish I could make him a goblin/orc but 🤷♂️
I do really like the idea of making something an army so I’m def adding this
deft belfry
then you will have to unequip/requip
i wonder if you can equip without
taking it off
and change name and type
[[?psychic paper]]
shrewd zealotBOT
young nova
I don’t think that’s possible
young nova
Yeah I think so
Omg I could do mirage mirror and the wizard that removes counters for extra turns!!!
deft belfry
oh, so one of the trick to do the army with the scary [[sauron the dark lord]] is just
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[changeling outcast]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
that works here too
flat unblocker no need for trample menace at a high cost on a creature
i also like rebound in this type of theme
young nova
[[mirage mirror]] and [[sage of hours]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
: This artifact becomes a copy of target artifact, creature, enchantment, or land until end of turn.
Most mirrors show your reflection. Others show your potential.
young nova
To copy an army then to copy the sage
Also I do like the dark lord but still for part of this deck he doesn’t fit due to his cost. But the changeling is a great catch
deft belfry
[[metamorphic alteration]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
turn army into sage
deft belfry
well i probably wont finish this one tonight since i am sleepy
so order at your own affordable risk
young nova
I am also sleepy and it’s probably best to buy stuff when I’m fully awake
Thank you for you ideas!!!
deft belfry
NP
getting army big enough > evasion > protection
personally i would go mutate almost everytime
but if i mutate over the stats, then it will lose the army type line iirc
but i can mutate commander too, and make more weird copies
or just do the doctor who non legendary copy, one has rebound
[[quantum misalignment]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
10 mana worth of spell and up to 3 saruman?
thats a 15/15 army when it resolves and now every spell will be triple mana value worth of +1 counters
young nova
but if i mutate over the stats, then it will lose the army type line iirc
Yeah the top card is the creature type card
I like that one a lot
And I think I have it already
Tomorrow/today I’ll start making cuts but for now I sleep
deft belfry
[[cast through time]] danng so high cost probably wont fit
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
cya
deft belfry
[[ojer pakpatiq deepest epoch]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — God
Flying
Whenever you cast an instant spell from your hand, it gains rebound. (Exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast it from exile without paying its mana cost.)
When Ojer Pakpatiq dies, return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed under its owner's control with three time counters on it.
4/3
Temple of Cyclical Time
Land
(Transforms from Ojer Pakpatiq, Deepest Epoch.)
: Add . Remove a time counter from this land.
, : Transform this land. Activate only if it has no time counters on it and only as a sorcery.
Chimil gave the Oltec time. Ojer Pakpatiq gave them the tools to learn its lessons.
deft belfry
while having creature amass cards is fine, i wouldnt focus too hard on those because they are inefficient when the commander amass so much more
they do give a second body on the board but it is as good as a blocker most of the time
trample, menance are okay to have
storm fox
hi im back again
i was wondering mono, have you ever seen my hearthhull deck?
cuz i really don't know what to do with the deck
deft belfry
the precon face commander station around land sac? i havent seen your. How much of it is from the precon
storm fox
i have been messing around with it for quite a bit
so there is a bit left of the precon, but a lot is swapped out
i think
deft belfry
no yivamiya? ashya?
not much of a fan of [[!putrefy]] but it would jsut be removal for removal swap
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
other than commander, are there other ways to tap [[house cortographer]]?
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
deck overall looks solid, i can see it going very explosive
some creatures may have stronger versions
but overall the function and utility is the same
i know for quite sometime [[world shaper]] was a one off effect along with spledid reclamation
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i feel like for most decks it is a bit slow
and hard to control when it happens
its one of those, yes it has mill for grave set up, it can turn those into potential ramp/value
but it doesnt do either great because if it attacks, its harder to die, if it dies while your opponent has that choice, you arent getting much out of it.
storm fox
no yivamiya? ashya?
i havent touched the landbase much yet
deft belfry
right
very heavily modified precon
the next step up is basically fetches
and pure utility lands like [[dark depth]] stuff
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Snow Land
Dark Depths enters with ten ice counters on it.
: Remove an ice counter from Dark Depths.
When Dark Depths has no ice counters on it, sacrifice it. If you do, create Marit Lage, a legendary 20/20 black Avatar creature token with flying and indestructible.
deft belfry
i have some super janky lands / mana options that works with lands
storm fox
other than commander, are there other ways to tap [[house cortographer]]?
i could try to attack or make a deal, but other than that, it was a better 2 drop than what i had before
before i had the etb look at top 4 and put a land into hand from among them
deft belfry
[[overlaid terrain]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Enchantment
As this enchantment enters, sacrifice all lands you control.
Lands you control have ": Add two mana of any one color."
One must reap before one can sow.
storm fox
i feel like for most decks it is a bit slow
that's the problem i was feeling as well, and got stuck upon
deft belfry
i think the new version of that only sac half the lands rather than all
deft belfry
there is a ogre/demon land that has an ability to sac all your lands XD
storm fox
there is a ogre/demon land that has an ability to sac all your lands XD
never heard of it
deft belfry
before i had the etb look at top 4 and put a land into hand from among them
but i liek that self mill
although its probably not the deck for it
[[tomb of urami]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Land
: Add 
. Tomb of Urami deals 1 damage to you if you don't control an Ogre.
, , Sacrifice all lands you control: Create Urami, a legendary 5/5 black Demon Spirit creature token with flying.
deft belfry
yep demon
storm fox
but i liek that self mill
yes, but i found that most often, it would either brick, or dump things into the grave without a way of getting them back
deft belfry
[[rakdos the deflier]] approved
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
yes, but i found that most often, it would either brick, or dump things into the...
i agree
storm fox
also, i added a [[lluwen]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Elf Druid
When Lluwen enters, mill four cards, then you may put a creature or land card from among the milled cards on top of your library.
, , Discard a land card: Create a 1/1 black and green Worm creature token for each land card in your graveyard.
"I know I belong somewhere—just not here."
1/3
deft belfry
i guess the main thing is just getting the engine online
new card i havent seen it played since i havent got too many gamesw in
storm fox
probably, and maybe more recursion?
storm fox
repeatable ability looks okay
havent activated his tap ability yet
his etb can get creatures back if need be
which is imo an upgrade
deft belfry
personally. am bias to the artifact one [[conduit of worlds ]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
You may play lands from your graveyard.
: Choose target nonland permanent card in your graveyard. If you haven't cast a spell this turn, you may cast that card. If you do, you can't cast additional spells this turn. Activate only as a sorcery.
deft belfry
gtg
storm fox
aight
storm fox
personally. am bias to the artifact one [[conduit of worlds ]]
it is 4 cmc tho, which kind of hurts, (i also already have cards that let me get things from the grave in either mass land recursion or repeatable effects like the conduit)
which empty the grave currently faster than i can fill it (with lands, for the others i don't really have recursion)
deft belfry
yeah its worse than crucible here
[[$conduit of worlds]] is actually affordable is one of my reasoning
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i think the hard part is alwys getting that balance. between thee same effect and the full value from those consistent value-engine redundancy
hard. tags to do as well
storm fox
hard. tags to do as well
yeah, i haven't like all of my other decks done the taggs here either
if ya want i can make you a coauthor to this list as well
deft belfry
[[whims of the fates ]]+[[mayhem devil]]
[[tectonic split]] was that other one we though about
shrewd zealotBOT
Enchantment
As an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice half the lands you control, rounded up.
Hexproof
Lands you control have ": Add three mana of any one color."
storm fox
[[whims of the fates ]]+[[mayhem devil]]
[[tectonic split]] was that other one ...
Yeah, tho 6 cmc might be too slow once again? Not sure
I cut Mayhem devil cuz i just really dont like the card, think its payoffs is too little for what the deck aims to achieve
deft belfry
Yeah, tho 6 cmc might be too slow once again? Not sure
possible, i think it depends on the flow/pacing of the deck
because commander only want to be out when you have 5 mana and a creature to station
yeah the payoff scaling isnt the best with mayhem, its just my own pet card
whims backfired on me when i played it about a year ago XD i was the only one who lost stuff and mayhem devil was one of those things
storm fox
possible, i think it depends on the flow/pacing of the deck
i see it more as a turn 6 drop this, do nothing enchantment that only gives me a lot of mana of turn 7, if it survives
with the amount of enchantment hate at my table, it probably won't
nvm just saw that it has hexproof
still think i might need more ways of self mill and recursion, cuz i think that's the way i want to go i think
tho mostly recursion
keen nova
Here is my Necron Themed Artifact Recursion Deck. The win con is having a bunch of Necron tokens generated by pulling stuff from the graveyard. I only play with Tabletop Simulator, so the price of cards isn't important. https://archidekt.com/decks/19681374/neverending_necrons
I'm trying to keep it Necron themed, but if that's not possible, I'm trying to get it at least Sci-fi themed/Green
The sideboard is everything that is either Necron themed, green Sci-fi themed, or something that might work really well.
In particular from the sideboard is Lembas, which I think might work well since it goes to the graveyard then returns to the library.
cold quartz
hey mon im not feeling very inspired on that combo deck yet so instead of getting 'deck block' im gonna build another facet that i wanted to build - aggro and wanted to just get your opinion on some commander options for their play patterns. i really want it to be interesting, have decisions and not just brain off turn creatures sideways. heres the ones i was looking at but also gimme some that you think would be good that i may have overlooked: [[saskia the unyielding]] [[caesar, legions emperor]] [[breena the demagogue]] [[nelly borca]] [[isshin, two heavens as one]]
deft belfry
Here is my Necron Themed Artifact Recursion Deck. The win con is having a bunch ...
have you checked out other necro decks since its the face commander? So i dont think lembas is that great but it is a good direction to look into, because [[!imotekh stormlord]] cares about multiple instances of artifact leaving your grave, i would both focus and increase this category in general
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
repeatable recursion, even if the card isnt great, will have more impact with the commander out [[skeleton shard]] cheap$, thematic, synergy
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
, or , : Return target artifact creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Metal permeates the marrow of every bone in Mephidross—except one.
deft belfry
i know someone who got this with an online altered art just to fit the necrons
note that vat of rebirth works really well with tokens too, so along side the tokens from imohtek, anything that sacrifice will net a lot of value
i never got to play [[salvage titan]] due to its high casting/sac cost but it think it has potential here
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
a 6/4 body without evasion is its biggest downside
so the menance kinda helps?
the current curve seems very high with all the 4 cmc cards
for a good wide deck, i prefer one sided wipes more than toxic deluge, while it is the most obvious good card, it is probably going to kill your board almost everytime
[[crippling fear]]][[extinction event]] are some of my top choices
deft belfry
i know i mentioned 4 drop curve is probably too high, so i do want to cut down on that if possible
some of that mana value is also a hidden cost when it is on an ability/ X cost
[[necro monolith]] i didnt get to draw this before i cut it, its a nice win con but i always find it slow and inconsistent. it does a bit of everything but is slow at all of them
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
unless you find the key to make the deck more consistent, i think all the changes wouldnt really make it play too different. build up mana, set up synergistic engine, value payoff
i wouldnt play 41 lands here , perfer 2 mana ramp into 4 drop, then even out the rest with artifact type stuff, whenever its creature or just good value
[[pact of serpent]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[disciple of vault]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
https://scryfall.com/card/c16/41/saskia-the-unyielding
Saskia i think does too much damage in general but its potential is super fun because of the "chosen player" mechanic. it is kinda just swing side way tho so there arent too much thought in it beyond blocker math. Infect is the scariest thing so there maybe rule 0 for that
too open ended maybe its core problem, so it really like a self restriction to make it more interesting rather than good stuff pile
deft belfry
hey mon im not feeling very inspired on that combo deck yet so instead of gettin...
the other three also shares the "i want to attack" incentive . Breena maybe the most unique one since it cares about the multiplayer politic and lowkey goading
caesar has the precon so it would have the most clear path on how to play, but overall its a mardu go wide token burn deck. The commander looks like it does everything but you really only want to repeat the same first and last mode, and let the deck take care of the card draw
Isshin is the scariest one here since it is panharmonicon for attack trigger. its not kill on site, and it doesnt offer an engine to make itself consistent. in fact it actually do nothing but kinda forces the rest of the deck into a mold
its a reverse type of build, whenever you want to go "fun creature and it has attack triggers" [[etali primal storm]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
rather than "oooh panharmonicon, my favourite pet card, even though this upcoming set has zero etb mechanics"
deft belfry
https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/4/nelly-borca-impulsive-accuser
[[nelly borca impulsive accuser]] idea is fun, set/deck is so unpopular i havent seen it played once
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
4 drop boros is kinda an awkward spot
it needs to attack but no haste, with no clear set up BEFORE that 4 drop mark (Caesar for example want other creatures to sac)
suspected is lowkey a parasitic mechanic? not exactly but you wont find enough cards with suspect for a consistent theme
attack trigger means its hard to abuse
but it can become card draw so an engine in the command zone is a good thing
at the cost of the white draw downside ofc, [[secret redevous]]
deft belfry
just to give other people cards for not hurt you in return?
so from most generic to niche: Isshin > Caesar > Saskia = Breena > > > Nelly Borca something like that (my rating)
Breena maybe the best one for this with a dose of decision making but i would want red identity and see the potential of Nelly
and since all those decks have white, i guesss you are prepared to build a small army
can always make a friend out of someone with that Wedding ring
cold quartz
yeah for some the most interesting thing was being 3 or 4 color instead of regular boros, i dont mind winning through combat ofc but i want to have to thinnk on my turns to get there a bit which kind of clashes with creature aggro but i could make it happen. i think nelly would operate as a facilitator to make the big scary thing from the person im attacking not able to block and then not able to swing at me next turn. breena sounds cool too but with its colors i feel might lean more into aggro control than blitz ya down aggro
i think your ordering makes sense though, a big reason i was not thinking isshin too is to get payoff in the deck with him you have to be super reliant on having the commander out which i dont love
i was leaning most into caesar and nelly, maybe breena..do you have any interesting aggro commanders youve been looking at?
deft belfry
you know how much i hate white instant removal
and i cant get myself to play mono white [[zetalpa prmal dawn]]
shrewd zealotBOT
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i have so much bulk over the years i can fit in [[rest for the weary]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[sunspring expedition]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
rn my chaos goad deck is [[The rani]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i have every grixis jank i can find and token synergy, trying to pull of full board [[glimpse of tomorrow]] with countless tokens out, the proudest synergy i got in there is how my [[noble purse]] can ramp out [[junk winder]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Sorcery
Suspend 3—
Shuffle all permanents you own into your library, then reveal that many cards from the top of your library. Put all non-Aura permanent cards revealed this way onto the battlefield, then do the same for Aura cards, then put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
Artifact
This artifact enters tapped and with three coin counters on it.
, Remove a coin counter from this artifact: Create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Add one mana of any color.")
Creature — Serpent
Affinity for tokens (This spell costs less to cast for each token you control.)
Whenever a token you control enters, tap target nonland permanent an opponent controls. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
5/6
deft belfry
and instead of using removal that "negatively" decrease the board, i am trying to "add" more permanents
goading sets itself up like a pseudo pillowfort so i am usually safe from the biggest beater
i tried to play [[bloodthirsty blade]] in many things but never have much success with it
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+0 and is goaded. (It attacks each combat if able and attacks a player other than you if able.)
: Attach this Equipment to target creature an opponent controls. Activate only as a sorcery.
The weapon wields the hand that holds it.
deft belfry
its like a 3 mana repeatable removal for any colour but its so situational
it doesnt removal a problem but rather Add to the problem
[[lorehold velomachus]] and [[karrthus tyrant of jund]] were my previous "lazy voltron" deck to make up for my own deck building weakness of "not having a win con"
deft belfry
flying damage voltron tends to be quite effective and they come out so late in the game so it doesnt feel overly powerful/oppressive
force more of a 99 to build around beyond just ramping mindlessly
both had no combos in them
overall, i just have an idea of "what kind of game play" i am looking for when i pick those commander
and make a conscious decision when i build around those cards
using mostly cards i already own as the base and add in a few new/fun stuff to test out
3 mana commanders i feel like a bit too fast for my avg power and the return value from those commander are low
at 5 or more mana i want it to do something right away the turn it comes in
mono colour is bit too restrictive for my janks
Bulks/fun stuff/cheap$ pet cards tends to lack win cons
i guess i also dont optimize any of those as i just build as i go and plan on taking them apart/making quick swaps
@cold quartz Do you have a clear idea what kind of game you are looking for
the rock paper scissor dynamic at your LGS?
i know a few that are always one thing XD
its like the "old dog cant learn new trick" mentality ?
i dislike that punch harder, punch stronger, or more type of way so i want to find ways to get around
but i also overcomplicate things a lot for those who just want to simple RPS game
deft belfry
i want to make the memes become achieveable dreams?
cold quartz
the rock paper scissor dynamic at your LGS?
i dont play at an lgs, all online at this point, but yeah adding the scissors and paper instead of always rock (midrange) so the game plan i am looking for would be very tempo based, probably almost 0 ramp in the deck and instead tempoing something every turn, ideally also t1 and shoot out of the gate swinging while other people want to ramp until t5 and not do anything. bring something else to the table type energy, i dont necessarily want to kill everyone before t6-7 so maybe the thinking part comes later when everyone has like 4 mana more than me and focused me down because aggro at 'our' midrange table i know will probably get some dirty looks so i need good finishers or ways like goad to force my opponents to not go for me, which is why im hesitant on breena a bit because my gameplan is hoping my opponents let me do that instead of doing my own thing
cold quartz
flying damage voltron tends to be quite effective and they come out so late in t...
yeah those all look cool, i personally hate playing voltron decks or high cmc commanders unless the first likee 5 turns are oops all ramp
cold quartz
overall, i just have an idea of "what kind of game play" i am looking for when i...
and with that maybe its some kind of fiddly aggro strat that is aggro but more interesting than creatures go brrrrr
deft belfry
yeah breena need that "hope" since you dont have direct control
incentive may work sometimes
fiddly?
cold quartz
i want to make the memes become achieveable dreams?
yess exactly, i dont want to let the memes just be dreams
cold quartz
fiddly?
like a bit complicated or awkward, something to make it interesting gameplay for me
deft belfry
yeah those all look cool, i personally hate playing voltron decks or high cmc co...
thats the thing, none of those had a voltron focus to it
it just the backup way to end the game when i am out of gas
cold quartz
oh then maybe i misunderstood what you were getting at
ahh like a backup finisher as a commander
deft belfry
i duddle too much with no win con in the 99 (not enough to draw into)
so having a potential win con in the command zone means i will always have it
if the game gets there
recasting a 9 drop is awful but all i need is topdecking more lands
and a high cost commander than i dont have to play on curve means
i will naturally ramp hard
so i can put in higher mana value jank
cold quartz
yeah i recently won a game where everyones commander got wiped at least 3 times but i had the best draw at the table so i was like 4-5 mana ahead not from ramping but just assuring that i hit my land every turn so when the game went to like t12 or 13 i was winning and made the comeback from 5hp on t5
cold quartz
so i can put in higher mana value jank
this sounds like a simic mindset hahaha
deft belfry
Engine commander: Less Draw needed in the library
Synergy commander: Can do more random things without commander out or enhance what it does
Ramp commander: need less mana source to reach a higher curve
Voltron/win con commander: Less win cons needed to draw into
it compensates
deft belfry
this sounds like a simic mindset hahaha
well simic cares about pure value
mana value is cmc so i can run [[kaboom!]] and hurt people more with the burn
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
trying to go over 20 damage tonight
cold quartz
hell yes
deft belfry
just put in [[needlebite trap]] [[song mad ruins]]so thats a 3 drop and a land exchanged for 12 mana value
shrewd zealotBOT
Instant — Trap
If an opponent gained life this turn, you may pay rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
Target player loses 5 life and you gain 5 life.
The traps around the vampire city of Malakir hint at the thirst of its inhabitants.
Sorcery
Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn.
"I'm not proud of the things I did. But all I could think about at the time was how to make the noise stop." —Yavotz, Sea Gate Expeditionary House
Song-Mad Ruins
Land
This land enters tapped.
: Add .
"They call it the Singing City, but those eerie sounds aren't music. They worm their way into your brain until rational thought is impossible." —Yavotz, Sea Gate Expeditionary House
deft belfry
its going to hurt i wish i can make copies in this deck, not there yet
shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
could maybe try out impulse synergy instead of sunbird?
or lean in hard to black dmg yourself for draw
deft belfry
it has impulse too, but i want to get more of those [[possibility storm]] triggers
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
oh i hurt myself ia lot XD
cold quartz
ahhh
kinda rude to some people but you could try out a couple hatebears to more force them to trigger
deft belfry
it is there
[[rowan, scion of war]] is the commander and the plan is storm cast [[mai scornful striker]][[rug of smoothering]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Menace
: Spells you cast this turn that are black and/or red cost less to cast, where X is the amount of life you lost this turn. Activate only as a sorcery.
"No more days withering at a negotiating table with my brother. I will rebuild Eldraine myself—the old way, with power."
4/2
deft belfry
literally the kill myself while i storm deck
so far 100% loss rate but i bring down 2 people with me
cold quartz
oooooh ok thats cool
cold quartz
do you got more life loss synergy?
cold quartz
i mean payoff for losing life
deft belfry
hmmm i can have more if there are some
i can put in [[vilis broker of blood]] since i own one
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Demon
Flying
, Pay 2 life: Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Whenever you lose life, draw that many cards. (Damage causes loss of life.)
"You can sign, or you can spend your life imagining what might have been yours."
8/8
deft belfry
but i dont want to pay that triple black
i lose too much life is why it keep losing
i cant scale against 120 life across multiple opponent
also easy to misplay when i have no idea what my next spell is going to be with P storm out
also weak against creature decks that can keep pumping out big attackers
board wipe/strong removal is the wrong half of the storm deck i may never draw
trying to add [[pile on]] [[lethal scheme]] for some topdeck card selection
shrewd zealotBOT
Instant
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for or one mana of that creature's color.)
Destroy target creature or planeswalker. Surveil 2. (Look at the top two cards of your library, then put any number of them into your graveyard and the rest on top of your library in any order.)
Instant
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for or one mana of that creature's color.)
Destroy target creature or planeswalker. Each creature that convoked this spell connives. (Draw a card, then discard a card. If you discarded a nonland card, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.)
deft belfry
but card advantage is my current problem, typical of red decks
not enough blockers
also i abuse the rowan cost reduction enough i can basically storm my whole hand, colourless mana is also useless in the deck
cold quartz
i was thinking along the lines of [[betor, ancestors voice]] type effects that explicitly give you benefits on life loss
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i need to take out [[amonkhet raceway]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Land
Start your engines! (If you have no speed, it starts at 1. It increases once on each of your turns when an opponent loses life. Max speed is 4.)
: Add .
Max speed — : Target creature gains haste until end of turn.
Stage 2: The sands and waters of Amonkhet.
cold quartz
that took a while to find
shrewd zealotBOT
Land
Start your engines! (If you have no speed, it starts at 1. It increases once on each of your turns when an opponent loses life. Max speed is 4.)
: Add .
Max speed — : Add .
Stage 3: The steaming jungles of Muraganda under falling skies.
deft belfry
i was thinking along the lines of [[betor, ancestors voice]] type effects that e...
yeah black dont have too much of those
i will be doing [[teval arbit truth]] later too
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[teval arbitr of virtue]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Spirit Dragon
Flying, lifelink
Spells you cast have delve. (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting those spells pays for .)
Whenever you cast a spell, you lose life equal to its mana value.
"As you act, so shall you be judged."
6/6
cold quartz
i cant scale against 120 life across multiple opponent
to help the storm if you dont want to lean into life gain you could go the [[teval, arbiter of virtue]] way and play cards that prevent you from either losing the game or changing your life total
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Spirit Dragon
Flying, lifelink
Spells you cast have delve. (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting those spells pays for .)
Whenever you cast a spell, you lose life equal to its mana value.
"As you act, so shall you be judged."
6/6
deft belfry
animar is temur
cold quartz
and those cards and generally colorless
deft belfry
yep just mentioend that one lol
deft belfry
nah my plan is dont hurt me because i will kill myself
dont you dare, i cry easily
definitely not getting that golem/ plati angel to stop myself from losing
some lich cards maybe if they are cheap
cold quartz
theres a lot of ways to do teval but the cool way i found was around cards like [[platinum angel]] or [[platinum emperion]]
deft belfry
yep those two, definitely not getting either one
cold quartz
which could work for your deck
deft belfry
read what i wrote 🤣
cold quartz
yeah it is kind of a cheap out for the kill myself gameplan
sorry i was looking for them and was tabbed out 😄
deft belfry
predicting every line just seconds ahead of you
cold quartz
facts haha
cold quartz
ehh im not as cynical
deft belfry
anyways gtg eat before going to LGS ttyl
cold quartz
ttyl
cold quartz
i cant scale against 120 life across multiple opponent
if you build more around your opponents losing life with you, you can run cards like [[wound reflection]] [[rakdos, lord of riots]] [[neheb, the eternal]] [[bloodsoaked insight]] [[archfiend of dispair]] atc
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Demon
You can't cast Rakdos unless an opponent lost life this turn.
Flying, trample
Creature spells you cast cost less to cast for each 1 life your opponents have lost this turn.
6/6
Legendary Creature — Zombie Minotaur Warrior
Afflict 3 (Whenever this creature becomes blocked, defending player loses 3 life.)
At the beginning of each of your postcombat main phases, add for each 1 life your opponents have lost this turn.
"This is what glory looks like." —Nicol Bolas
4/6
Sorcery
This spell costs less to cast for each 1 life your opponents have lost this turn.
Target opponent exiles the top three cards of their library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play those cards. If you cast a spell this way, mana of any type can be spent to cast it.
Sanguine Morass
Land
This land enters tapped.
: Add or .
All who enter the bog despair, for the first thing it steals is hope.
cold quartz
that kind of synergizes with the mai and rug gameplan
cold quartz
or you could 'reset' your life to keep losing it with stuff like [[eternity vessel]]
shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
or swap your life with your opponent with stuff like [[soul conduit]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
, : Two target players exchange life totals.
"You have an unhealthy attachment to your selfhood. I can help you with that." —Malcator, Executor of Synthesis
deft belfry
if you build more around your opponents losing life with you, you can run cards ...
only if it draw cards, dont want too much colour pips, bloodsoak being an MDFC kinda cost more than what i want rn
i got the other MDFC tho since i can burn myself for 3
basically pays for 4 mana
deft belfry
https://tenor.com/view/dave-sweeney-emo-gif-18524420
oh no you figured it out XD
[[self destruct]] the deck. a storm deck that may not a win con but definitely a lose con
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
dont really want to get exsanguinate tho, kinda feels too strong or too salty one shot out of nowhere
soul conduit in [[Rowan scion of war]] wont work, Teval maybe
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Menace
: Spells you cast this turn that are black and/or red cost less to cast, where X is the amount of life you lost this turn. Activate only as a sorcery.
"No more days withering at a negotiating table with my brother. I will rebuild Eldraine myself—the old way, with power."
4/2
cold quartz
i disagree with that, no different than a craterhoof for lifeloss
deft belfry
but still have to pay for the other half 
well its technically B2 so far
its a "watch me tortore myself to death, the gooner deck"
yes, you have to make inapprioate jokes when you are taking up more time in the social game of commander
i got random bulks that can go in, [[nightdrinker noroii]] 
spells this turn cost 6 less
shrewd zealotBOT
Creature — Vampire
Flying
When this creature enters, you lose 3 life.
Disguise (You may cast this card face down for as a 2/2 creature with ward . Turn it face up any time for its disguise cost.)
4/2
the darker ritual
shrewd zealotBOT
Instant
(
can be paid with either or 2 life.)
Gut Shot deals 1 damage to any target.
"Down here, we have a more pointed version of the scriptures." —Urabrask's enforcer
deft belfry
[[adios]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
👋 wish me luck i will need it
cold quartz
hey just got back, howd it go??
deft belfry
cluched a kill before i got myself to 1 life and died to an unblockable 10/10, i was close to winning though since i have two 22/22 tramplers from [[seize the storm]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Sorcery
Create a red Elemental creature token with trample and "This token's power and toughness are each equal to the number of instant and sorcery cards in your graveyard plus the number of cards with flashback you own in exile."
Flashback (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
deft belfry
the one kill was from [[summoning primal odin]] chapter two and the topdeck [[sundering eruption]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Sorcery
Destroy target land. Its controller may search their library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle. Creatures without flying can't block this turn.
"Idea: Climbing boots also balanced for running." —Expedition journal entry, very scorched
Volcanic Fissure
Land
As this land enters, you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters tapped.
: Add .
Even the most seasoned adventurers think twice before testing their fortunes on the volcanic teeth of Akoum.
deft belfry
i failed the early game XD but was the closest to a win so far
at the mercy of the table
but the following game i watch them beat each other up to get back at the other and i stole a very secured win with a full grip of about 17 cards in hand, most of which are lands. That game i was basically ignored and i am untouchable in case anyone of them go for me
[[ride the avalanche]] + coomander [[sin unending cataclysm]]
deft belfry
first. time it came out, got 24 counters, play it a second time, got over 100 counters + ride another 7 counters on another thing
it was killed on sight the first time which imo is good since i became so much less threatening, and cant really follow up after KO one person
deft belfry
cluched a kill before i got myself to 1 life and died to an unblockable 10/10, i...
i wish they has haste, that would have been the last thing i needed
maybe i can consider adding anger 🤔
the card i listed are the good things in the deck, so so so many cards are awful XD
storm fox
Picked up the bottom 3 cards here up from my lgs today, so i'll go and try to build ayara tomorrow
keen nova
have you checked out other necro decks since its the face commander? So i dont t...
Updated version:
https://archidekt.com/decks/19681374/neverending_necrons
deft belfry
Picked up the bottom 3 cards here up from my lgs today, so i'll go and try to bu...
tfw fling is t he one i recognize the least out of those card art XD
deft belfry
[[!juri master of rav]] never really liked this card in commander
deft belfry
it calls for lot of small sacrifices, whenever its eldrazi spawns or plunder's treasures. i dont think its that great outside of 1 vs 1
its in a werid spot where it is just bad enough to be a low cost creature that can stay out on board, and can turn into a one time big bolt effect
yet if someone is afraid of it getting out of hand, they may try to exile it
it feels like one of those, "this card scales, but how well does it have to scale for you to think it is worth"
haughty frost
Hi again @deft belfry! I'm once againn coming to you to ask for help trimming 5 cards from my new Jenny Flint and Madame Vastra list. The goal of the deck is to generate lots of foods and clues and then sac them for value to feed the commander's value loop and scale their damage. The fight/indirect fight effects are for triggering vastra multiple times in a turn. I'm not sure what to cut here and I would like any guidance you can give. Thank you so much in advance!
deft belfry
Updated version:
https://archidekt.com/decks/19681374/neverending_necrons
ever thought of cutting [[war in heaven]]? there are actually more artifact in the deck than black cards, [[cloud key]] is going to give lot of reduction. anvil semblance is a personal favourite but is not needed
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
As this artifact enters, choose artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, or sorcery.
Spells you cast of the chosen type cost less to cast.
The advent of cloudsculpting ended the use of mechanical locks in Illvoi society.
deft belfry
[[psychomancer]] is something i would keep
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[convergence of dominion]] is failing here since there are no more unearth creature in the deck
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
Dynastic Command Node — As long as you control your commander, activated abilities of cards in your graveyard cost less to activate. This effect can't reduce the mana in that ability's activation cost to less than one mana.
Translocation Protocols — , : Mill three cards.
deft belfry
to mill 3 is also really high
its okay if you kept stuff like [[ghost ark]] but in this build it is just taking up space
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact — Vehicle
Flying
Repair Barge — Whenever this Vehicle becomes crewed, each artifact creature card in your graveyard gains unearth until end of turn.
Crew 2 (Tap any number of creatures you control with total power 2 or more: This Vehicle becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.)
3/3
keen nova
[[psychomancer]] is something i would keep
Why Psychomancer? The drain sounds like it would be insignificant
deft belfry
out of the 59 non land cards how many of those do you think are artifact
32
and thats not counting whatever artifact lands since i dont expect those to go to grave
[[chronomancer]] another* one i would keep
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact Creature — Necron Wizard
Flying
Atomic Transmutation — , , Sacrifice another artifact: Draw a card.
Unearth (: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step or if it would leave the battlefield. Unearth only as a sorcery.)
1/1
deft belfry
worst case scenario, flying blocker on those two are relevant
oh yeah [[foundry inspector]] is the creature cloud key you didnt put into the main deck
keen nova
That's true
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact Creature — Construct
Artifact spells you cast cost less to cast.
Automaton inspectors ensure that the Consulate's stringent standards for mass production are upheld.
3/2
deft belfry
imo, Artifact Creature are the two most important types for this deck
saga, cost reduction/mill artifact, and single use effects are just gimmicks
if you can kill an artifact creature and take it out of the grave, you will end up with a massive army of necron zombie-like boardstate
keen nova
So:
-War in Heaven
-Convergence of Dominion
-Jet Medallion
- Foundry Inspector
- Psychomancer
- Chronomancer
deft belfry
[[steelover seer]] is amazing in this deck
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact Creature — Construct
: Put a +1/+1 counter on each artifact creature you control.
"The world is already run by all manner of machines. One day, they'll remind us of that fact." —Sargis Haz, artificer
1/1
keen nova
saga, cost reduction/mill artifact, and single use effects are just gimmicks
You think milling isn't a good strategy? Isn't it more efficient than just drawing and playing cards?
deft belfry
itself Artifact creature. ability mentions artifact creature
its fine but if you can only use it once, its inconsistent
because you will whiff and end up with things you dont want in grave
its best when used in conjunction with card draw
i dont think this deck need a [[!crucible of worlds]] if you dont already own one
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
if you are keeping that, i would definite get a [[darksteel citadel]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact Land
Indestructible
: Add .
Structures built from darksteel yield to neither assault nor age.
deft belfry
can sac the artifact land, replay from grave turn after turn
keen nova
Damn that's smart
deft belfry
and mono colour
you dont need a lot of "fixing" / coloured mana
swamps is just to get a little more out of the broken lands
i got a jank that is super cheap but the potential is both high and low depends on the board [[dross scorpion]] i plan on comboing with it in my own decks
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
being a 4 drop makes it really bad esp on a 3/1 body
keen nova
As for buying the cards, this is just to use with Tabletop Simulator with friends. I'll probably buy cards in the future, I just want to get used to playing and find out what styles I like first
deft belfry
but with enough artifact creature out, it can potentially untap some crazy artifact like 10 times
it also sees opponent's creature
can like [[liqumetal torque]] opponents stuff before they die
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
: Add .
: Target nonland permanent becomes an artifact in addition to its other types until end of turn.
"Weaponized jewelry has a long and respected history." —Ervos Trax
deft belfry
i have a [[glissa the traitor]] deck that run [[imotekh ]] in the 99
deft belfry
so every times it triggers, i get one instance of artifact leaving the grave
which becomes two tokens
but its a value midrange deck so it doesnt focus too hard on combat
when imotekh is the commander, focusing on that army is all it matters
develop board go wide, keep hitting with tokens, anthem for more damage, evasive ability to pile on the battle cruiser lethal
cold quartz
hey mon i cobbled together a breena list - lemme know what you think for the rough first draft, need a few cuts and probably a few swaps for overlooking cards that are good in the list
https://moxfield.com/decks/vgLRysjLPkiTnRdETeMjOA
storm fox
[[!juri master of rav]] never really liked this card in commander
Tbh, it came in the hh precon, and so far its been a pretty good 2 drop for me, so i bought another when i saw it with ayara
storm fox
tfw fling is t he one i recognize the least out of those card art XD
Im not really sure about the inclusion of fling tho, think i wanna do some kind of aristocrats with smaller creatures that make others sac on etb, and effects like totentanz
deft belfry
maybe [[golbin bombardment]]?
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
havent used it for so long but its one of the best sac outlet in red that works with artistrocrats
i am addicted to sac engines so default go-to is [[spawning pit]] since its generic and low cost. yet not as broken as skullclamp/ sorcery speed
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on this artifact.
, Remove two charge counters from this artifact: Create a 2/2 colorless Spawn artifact creature token.
deft belfry
the payoff is death trigger blood artist etc type of ping so what i get out of the sac hardly matters
[[greater gargadon]] havent used this in a long time as well
shrewd zealotBOT
Creature — Beast
Suspend 10—
Sacrifice an artifact, creature, or land: Remove a time counter from this card. Activate only if this card is suspended.
9/7
deft belfry
again, dont really care about its ability/casting it, but its basically a sac outlet that cannot be targetted or removed
and maybe someday you will find that random boardwipe -gargadon enters with haste + out of the blue [[tainted strike]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
¯_(ツ)_/¯
my struggle in rakdos is always the card advantage, putting more of any one thing means i have less room for value and card advantage cards; sac is just looking for that partner that accumulate value sort of like the dynamic between
deft belfry
Hi again <@391063794387910656>! I'm once againn coming to you to ask for help tr...
no link to the deck lol Xp
[[jenny flint]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[madame vastra]]
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
[[the murasame]]
shrewd zealotBOT
haughty frost
no link to the deck lol Xp
https://archidekt.com/decks/20247683/yuri so sorry! Totally forgot to link it
deft belfry
[[murasame]] do you own this
shrewd zealotBOT
shrewd zealotBOT
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
As long as equipped creature is attacking, it has first strike and must be blocked if able.
Equipped creature has "If a creature dying causes a triggered ability of this creature or an emblem you own to trigger, that ability triggers an additional time."
Equip
deft belfry
murasame is the name of another sword in japanese lore or something. masaune is from the name of a swordsmith
and brain is like ma... s.. sa...sakana 🐟
[[ninja pizza]] havent looked at some of the new cards
shrewd zealotBOT
Enchantment
Foods you control have ", Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color."
At the beginning of your second main phase, create a Food token. (It's an artifact with ", , Sacrifice this token: You gain 3 life.")
The pizza that vanishes quickly without a trace.
deft belfry
not sure if KCi is worth it
nothing is especially off balance so the cut can be anything
perhaps little too many artifact sac, but thats just a quick guess
some of the double pips cards can be revisited later since its more taxing on the mana base to cast those
[[clitterspitter]] looks fun, i never managed to get it into a deck because it feels slow
shrewd zealotBOT
Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may sacrifice a token. If you do, put an acorn counter on this artifact.
Squirrels you control get +1/+1 for each acorn counter on this artifact.
, : Create a 1/1 green Squirrel creature token.
deft belfry
need token prepared, sac once per upkeep per round, cares about acorns but can create a small army by itself without putting it too much extra resources
basically never want to sac the squirrel it makes
[[trail of crumb]] permanent focus, i can see similar stuff which may want even less non permanent spells
shrewd zealotBOT
Enchantment
When this enchantment enters, create a Food token. (It's an artifact with ", , Sacrifice this token: You gain 3 life.")
Whenever you sacrifice a Food, you may pay . If you do, look at the top two cards of your library. You may reveal a permanent card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
deft belfry
i dont run [[lightning bolt]] since 1 mana for 3 damage is just a really bad rate in multiplayer
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
but i wont touch that unless you are certain that removal is a category you want to cut from
i will need to goldfish a bit before getting back to the sure cuts
[[pippins bravery]] similar
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
because commander is a 3/3 before anything happens, i wouldnt rely on it to make me the first food or clue
so having so many cards that needs to sac [[shrapnel blast]] can really make you run out of gas and tokens
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
are there removals that works with tokens but not having to sac them?
deft belfry
hey mon i cobbled together a breena list - lemme know what you think for the rou...
the counter targets are just flying evasive creatures for the most part?
that looks like A LOT of protection to me
i am curious how the life total is going to look in the actual game. since breena has that background condition of "opponent with highest life"
is that going to be the player that is most attackable on that turn
gtg
storm fox
I very quickly threw something together, although the deck might change entirely
https://moxfield.com/decks/ZiYJ2u72NkWzk_JDv_b6hA
storm fox
tho i am wondering now if i instead should go for maybe a sneak attack route and put the deck full of mana expensive but weird bombs
storm fox
cus i think that would be stronger to play, but that means i don't get to play mister totentanz
cold quartz
i am curious how the life total is going to look in the actual game. since breen...
Not opponent with the highest, higher than another opponent, so I could draw 2 a turn
cold quartz
the counter targets are just flying evasive creatures for the most part?
Yeah evasive creatures, or creatures that get some other benefit for getting the counters, which is surprisingly few cards when I scryfalled it
cold quartz
that looks like A LOT of protection to me
It might be too much but I thought the number was like 10 or 12 for a deck if you want to see one from that category in the first few turns
I feel like I should have a couple more 4s than I currently have
I also don't love [[felidar retreat]] idk about such a slow engine on 4 mana
shrewd zealotBOT
cold quartz
Also idk how I feel about the 2, 2mana draw 2s
haughty frost
murasame is the name of another sword in japanese lore or something. masaune is ...
i getcha
ty for the advice!
fickle edge
in fairness, there is a Murasame in quite a few FF games https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Murasame
deft belfry
Not opponent with the highest, higher than another opponent, so I could draw 2 a...
right, but i mean. like you would never want everyone at the same life total, opposite of dethrone. and that person with the high life total is very punchable
deft belfry
cus i think that would be stronger to play, but that means i don't get to play m...
maybe start with the one with low value creatures (especially janks you already own) and see how that goes, before moving up the high cost
deft belfry
It might be too much but I thought the number was like 10 or 12 for a deck if yo...
i guess yeah, that number checks out . although draw engine commander can sometimes get away with it
deft belfry
Also idk how I feel about the 2, 2mana draw 2s
right, that i have to test as well
deft belfry
ty for the advice!
np, i think you will want a lot more tokens for sure so you can balance the "input" (create) and "output"(sac)
decks that doesnt sac those tokens usually goes off the most explosive with [[clockwork omen]][[rise and shine]]
shrewd zealotBOT
Sorcery
Target noncreature artifact you control becomes a 0/0 artifact creature. Put four +1/+1 counters on each artifact that became a creature this way.
Overload (You may cast this spell for its overload cost. If you do, change "target" in its text to "each.")
deft belfry
which may not be the direction of your focus
cold quartz
i guess yeah, that number checks out . although draw engine commander can someti...
yeah that makes sense, i dont like goldfishing very much so i just played a couple games with it and the protection numbers seemed about right, if anything the dmg felt a little low if i was the only one triggering breena
also this is the first deck ever i think that ive ran hatebears, and it made some interesting dynamics for sure, the 2nd game with it got the [[dauthi voidwalker]] against 2 people incidental milling others/themselves and 1 person dedicated miller and there was like 60 options for me in exile at one point, and the previous game someone else had a hatebear that did 2 dmg every time a land ETBed and 2 people happened to be playing landfall decks so it ended up doing like 60+ dmg over the course of the game
shrewd zealotBOT
Creature — Dauthi Rogue
Shadow (This creature can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow.)
If a card would be put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere, instead exile it with a void counter on it.
, Sacrifice this creature: Choose an exiled card an opponent owns with a void counter on it. You may play it this turn without paying its mana cost.
3/2
cold quartz
its making for interesting dynamics for sure and dont get that much hate suprisingly
even if im the only one triggering breena though the draw amount felt about right - i will say that i had [[sign in blood]] sitting in my hand for most of the game because i was drawing enough off of the commander, tymna and esp [[yathan tombguard]]
deft belfry
yeah that makes sense, i dont like goldfishing very much so i just played a coup...
yeah, its not the best for pure aggro, you do want to "bait" your table to attack each other
[[forbidden orchard]] my favourite land for all sort of stuff
shrewd zealotBOT
Land
: Add one mana of any color.
Whenever you tap this land for mana, target opponent creates a 1/1 colorless Spirit creature token.
deft belfry
[[$dauthi voidwalker]] i avoid the card back when it was like $9 with a lack of reprint, as well as how oppressive it could be at the time
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
if i can get a $5 one i would be happy with it
deft belfry
also this is the first deck ever i think that ive ran hatebears, and it made som...
i thought its 1 damage? is it a red creature, zuzu something?
the black creature do odd damage, while [[polluted bond]] is basically drain
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
btw i think you can do [[rug of smoothering]] : D
shrewd zealotBOT
deft belfry
i never get disappointed by it
cold quartz
i thought its 1 damage? is it a red creature, zuzu something?
yeah eactly
it is 2 though
deft belfry
yeah i think i know what you are talking about
cold quartz
[[forbidden orchard]] my favourite land for all sort of stuff
oh yeah that could work well in this deck
deft belfry
the pain for all precon has all the black ones, doesnt have the red land hatebear
iirc
deft belfry
its making for interesting dynamics for sure and dont get that much hate suprisi...
technically you are "giving" card draw