#When Combat Meets Combo

30 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

undone fiber
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Why do combo players sometimes get salty when a combat player executes their own infinite combo? It's a common occurrence, especially given the nature of certain commanders like blue, black, artifacts or mono-red strategies. One such combo that often stirs debate is the Death Bellow Warcry + Changelings combination, resulting in unlimited ETB triggers. Despite being a hard-cast combo, it's remarkably fragile and challenging to integrate into a deck seamlessly. I'd love to hear your thoughts on whether this combo is broken or if its setup makes it acceptable. (For context, I typically play at power levels 6-8 with my Phabine deck: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/osFo44Hv-UKvUq9P0HjUtA

Looking forward to your insights and opinions on this matter!

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A deck created using Moxfield.
The Enigma of Blackvale: Phabine's Secret Influence - Commander (Ph...

A deck created using the deck building website, Moxfield.

rose phoenix
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Why play draw with these combos? You'd end up decking yourself by keeping the champion going and if you're gonna stop the combo when you find your piece why play it anyway?

oblique hollow
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I'd say it's definitely not broken given that it's an 8 mana spell that doesn't win on its own. You need a ETB/LTB payoff (of which you only have impact tremors to win immediately) alongside the three champion changelings. I would guess the deck as is would pull off the Death Bellow Combo win less than 2% of games it plays. If you wanted to pull it off more consistently, you'd need to add tutors for the Death Bellow and/or the ETB/LTB payoff cards.

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Happy to share the math behind that 2% number if you're interested btw

undone fiber
# oblique hollow I'd say it's definitely not broken given that it's an 8 mana spell that doesn't ...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. However, I'd like to clarify that this deck isn't focused on combo strategies; rather, it's a pure aggro deck. The primary goal is to deploy as many creatures (many dorks and value cards) as possible in the early turns, aiming to swing aggressively by turns 4-6. The Parley effect serves as an overrun mechanic to bolster our attacks. Additionally, my only tutors in this deck are Death Bellow Warcry and Real Breaker Invasion Tree.

undone fiber
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I've also managed to pull off the combo quite frequently in the early turns, often aided by mana rocks, dorks, or Seething Songs. I've attempted to reach 999 life and damage using Champion of Lambholt, Heron Blade Elite, and Bloodline Pretender, but I've yet to achieve the 999 draw, damage mark alongside the +1/+1 (cathars crusade, impact tremors, guardian project)

Additionally, I've successfully executed the Maskwood Nexus + Deathbellow Warcry or Realmwalker combo, allowing me to tutor for creatures of every type.

However, it's important to note that executing the combo feels like playing a glass cannon; it's incredibly fragile. Yet, when left unchecked, it offers an enjoyable and powerful experience for all players involved 🤪 👿

oblique hollow
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I'm surprised you're pulling this off frequently, but so long as everyone's having fun, who cares? Sweet list!

undone fiber
# oblique hollow I'm surprised you're pulling this off frequently, but so long as everyone's havi...

What I mostly believe is that perhaps it's because the colors associated with my deck often catch opponents off guard or they aren't prepared for such strategies. Specifically, the abilities of cards like Real Breaker, the Invasion Tree, can be challenging for them to interact with effectively. I often find myself surprising opponents when I successfully execute these combos.

tbh, I'm surprise to every time this occurs, because on the beginning this is also I thought, that this long setup combo is just a waste of card slot (2% chance) eheheh

rose phoenix
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I'd love to see how this plays up against my dinosaur combat combo list sometime because I'm a believer in combat decks allowing you to combo but maybe not this one

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Also just based on this list you've provided, I don't think this is a 6-8

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I'd love to be proven wrong sometime tho

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I just think this deck looks super easy to blow out

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Spot remove one changeling into exile, pop a draw spell right after it resolves. This deck looks like it topdecks a lot

undone fiber
undone fiber
rose phoenix
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But yea I'd super love to be proven wrong by this deck because it looks like a wonderful naya aggro list

undone fiber
rose phoenix
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Would you like to see the gishath list?

undone fiber
rose phoenix
undone fiber
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Tagging @spark osprey @sinful remnant you guys for your thoughts regarding our game using my Phabine deck. I'm a bit confused because some people rate this deck below 6-8PL . What are your thoughts based on our last game? Do you think it's above or below 7, or was I just lucky again with my starting hand?

sinful remnant
sinful remnant
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forgive me if i misremembered the fast mana. it's been a long day

undone fiber
# sinful remnant Ratings are relative, but based on my experience that deck will dominate most of...

On Turn 1, I play Birds of Paradise, followed by Growth Spasm on Turn 2. By Turn 3, I've accumulated enough mana to cast my Commander. Then, on Turn 4, I unleash Song of Totentanz, summoning five Rat tokens. To be honest, I often find myself in situations where opponents perceive me as pub-stomping or playing at a high power level. However, most of the time, it's just a stroke of luck, catching them off guard when the parley effect unexpectedly transforms into a devastating overrun.

sinful remnant
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even if the reality for you is one thing, most people will form a permanent opinion after one game so i tend to pace my decks and plays to just try to have a good time. but if you like going crazy every now and then and winning in turn 4 at the cost of some people perceiving you as a stomper, then that's your call

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IIRC your parley results that game were average too, just not bad

undone fiber
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To be honest, I'm still a bit confused about the power level of this deck. Some people say it's around a 6, while others argue it's more of a 7 or even 8. Perhaps power level is subjective and depends on your opponent's perspective. By the way, thank you for sharing your thoughts; I really appreciate it. I'm pretty sure that the next time you face Phabine, things will be different.