secret thing

[next marlin]

I was about to query "townsfolk"

[sour harness]

The idea started as a townsfolk then I got silly goofy

[dense moat]

Each night, choose a player: you or they are sober. Each night*, you die

[zenith lotus]

best character

[sour harness]

...not the worst role in the world

Actually this is just tinker nvm

[dense moat]

Its the stupidist Acrobat in the world

[zenith lotus]

: Each night*, if you are sober, your neighbors die.

[sour harness]

(outsider): the last time you are nominated, if the nominator is not a Townsfolk, you are immediately executed

HTR: just guess lol

[next marlin]

Final 3 every game

ez

[dense moat]

Each night* choose 2 players. Both are sober, but 1 dies tonight

[sour harness]

: each night, your alive neighbors might change alignment

: if all evil players join your cult, their team loses

[zenith lotus]

: You start knowing 2 players, neither of which are the recluse.

[next marlin]

Fantastic Poppy Grower synergy

[sour harness]

: you start knowing 3 players of different alignments

[zenith lotus]

: You are real

[sour harness]

Don't question it

[dense moat]

You start knowing which Outsiders are not in play. If none died today, choose a player tonight: they can't die until dusk. [+0 Outsiders]

[next marlin]

Spy/Recluse/Politician

[sour harness]

This is not even a bad role

[sour harness]

Those are still always good and/or evil

[dense moat]

Half true. Part of it could work if it wer more focused

[sour harness]

Yeah totally

[next marlin]

Each night*, choose a player: they die. [You choose which players are which Townsfolk, -? to +? Minions]

[dense moat]

Like a TF that adds Outsiders & is weird Monk/Pacifist protection if they dont die

[next marlin]

(additional minions past SoI limits are good)

[dense hound]

- Walker (Minion) - Each night turn a player into a character of the previous players original character type.

[sour harness]

(townsfolk): you think you are a Demon, but you are. Your ability can't malfunction

[next marlin]

Each night*, choose a player: they die. The 1st Townsfolk this kills becomes an evil Gang Fu and you die instead. [-1 Outsider]

something something outsiders you kill keep their ability

(hilariously useless on snv)

(...except mutant)

[sour harness]

(demon): if a vote passes and evil voted, the day ends immediately with that execution [no minions]

[next marlin]

If you were funny today, the ST policy-kills you

[dense moat]

(townsfolk) If more than 1 evil player is executed, good wins. No players can learn true info about you. After day 5, good wins.

[sour harness]

I have a homebrew demon that's literally just this except the 2nd TF

And the name is slightly different

[next marlin]

First townsfolk makes it funnier/more useless because you just die immediately

[sour harness]

I haven't playtested it but it seems reasonably fun. It's summoner adjacent

[sour harness]

Yeah but second is more interesting imo

I was gonna do third but then 7p games

[next marlin]

...arguably there's an interesting hybrid for vigor/reverse-fg

(if you ignore the 'new instance' problem and say minions globally keep abilities)

[dense hound]

(Townsfolk) Each night, choose a player. They must vote with you the next day or the storyteller publically shames them. (They do not learn they were chosen)

[dense moat]

"Each night*, Minions learn if you nominated today." Also "Each night*, the Demon learns if you voted today"

Townsfolk start knowing 3 in-play charcters

[sour harness]

That's super powerful lol

[dense moat]

Oh I know

[dense hound]

When I show them Their own role, the role showing them these roles, and the vizier >>

[sly crescent]

i love this

[zenith lotus]

its a townsfolk

[dense hound]

Hey, if youre sitting next to the demon it would be extremely powerful

[sly crescent]

perfect for No Dashii script 🥲

[dense moat]

It’s Bon Vivant on steroids

[zenith lotus]

lol

[lucid crag]

(Unbluffable Townsfolk) Players that are mad they're your role gain your role when you die

[zenith lotus]

thats very bluffable lol

actually never mind

its unbluffable after the ability procs twice

[dense hound]

yeah but you can absolutely just be like "oh I wasn't actually it, I was just being mad I was it" and backpedal

for the first time

[sly crescent]

Pixie-Slayer everyone is the slayer if they find and execute the Pixie. and Pixie doesn't have to hide

no wait this pixie doesn't have an ability or learns anything it just grants Pixie ability

so players might gain pixie ability and give it forward, but no actual information happens 😆

[lucid crag]

my question is if it would be fun to play with

lol

part of me says yes since it sounds hilarious

[dense hound]

Oh for sure no, itd just turn into "claim this role !!" because it would turn demon (as it is rn) and end the game

[lucid crag]

maybe just make demon immune

[lucid crag]

or perhaps "the demon knows who you are"

since town would need to exe it but how do they find it when everyone's claiming it, aye?

though after it procs once people claim it again prob

or perhaps if all living goods are it evil win

[sly crescent]

but raw the way Bluwe wrote the ability, let's say it's called Eixip - players that are mad / claim Eixip gain Eixip ability, which does nothing but make sure more players gain Eixip ability 😆 it's not becoming just gaining

and if it's becoming the character, outsiders can do it so they defuse themselves but not everyone has the incentive to

and yes in that way it is unbluffable by demon

unless it's in the bluffs, but then philo 🙃

[sly crescent]

for me this still wins for funniest, but Eixip most interesting

[sharp violet]

July 21st: What was your "right for the wrong reasons" story with this game?

[fiery finch]

One time I died while bluffing RK as the FT and I woke up and told everyone that I saw the demon as the demon. I did not know she was the demon, but it got her executed and we won

[next marlin]

I recently ran a 7p Vortox that was never solved for Vortox, but where town correctly identified the demon off a "chef 1" between him and the artist who vortox-checked

And where the minion's attempt to fall on the sword at f3 failed because she was "pixie confirmed"

[lost thistle]

i thought it was more like actual pixie, where they gain the ability, but still are their original character

[sly crescent]

demon was cooked and suicided at night for 50:50 heretic in play or not. i was the heretic

[dense moat]

7/21: You’ve been tasked to hold a birthday party for a BOTC character. Which one? What are you doing & what gifts/cake/decorations are you getting?

[zenith lotus]

ooh, two prompts today

[zenith lotus]

one of my groups first games of SnV, the minions, who happened to be near the vortox, gave true info, because it was a vortox game. the group then made a world using their false info that COMPLETELY worked where the vortox was the no dashii poisoning them, and then executed them. the grim reveal was hilarious.

[zenith lotus]

lil monsta. we're taking them to a rural town called Ravenswood Bluff to teach them how to be a proper demon. 😉

[dense moat]

I didnt mean to. Just didnt see someone else had done a prompt

[zenith lotus]

its fine

we can just have two prompts why not

[dense moat]

More just cause I didnt want to distract from the question I had done by also having people answering different ones

but i can leave it

[sly crescent]

birthday card for Apprentice https://tenor.com/view/gollum-leave-now-never-come-back-gif-13437568

[next marlin]

Town when I forget evil apprentice is terrible in snv

[fast anchor]

If only Apprentice was experimental so we could pray for its removal from BotC

[pseudo fulcrum]

I love apprentice

[dense moat]

Well then you just have to resort to Plan B. Just... don't let an Apprentice travel in, especially on SNV. Make them choose someone else

Its not like Apprentice is on the actual script, where its always a possibility

[fast anchor]

me when a 20th person wants to travel into BMR

[dense moat]

give traveller from another edition

pulls out Face Your Fears travellers

[fast anchor]

distortion in bmr would go hard

[flat lintel]

Apprentice isn’t that bad

It’s like a good 6/10

[fast anchor]

it's like a 2/10 be so for real

[flat lintel]

It has a bit of like what the fuck, but for the most part, like most sketchy botc characters, it works with most

[fast anchor]

does. does it really

like look at BMR

[dense moat]

Apprentice is actively unusable on scripts with loud Minions

[flat lintel]

works with 3/4 minions

[fast anchor]

what about a good apprentice

it either hard confirms itself or does nothing

[flat lintel]

grandmother

sailor

innkeeper

[fast anchor]

hard confirms itself

[flat lintel]

exorcist

[fast anchor]

hard confirms itself

[flat lintel]

not in a bad way though??

it could just be evil bluffing ngl

[fast anchor]

ok exorcist and IK are decent

[flat lintel]

except sailor ig?

[fast anchor]

you mean to tell me you, as the apprentice assassin, stab yourself and bluff grandma

be SO for real

[flat lintel]

just travel out before player dies

idk be innovative

[dense moat]

but... then you dont really help evil out that much. Like if youre the Apprentice Assassian & stab yourself, what exactly do you gain for evil? You might get a vot for like a day, but how does that help if you wont stick in final day?

[sour harness]

I like apprentice because I like the "normal" game

I like lying :)

It's hard to lie as most travelers, especially if you're good

Does apprentice have its problems? Absolutely

But it's far from my least favorite traveler

[spiral pollen]

grandmother is fine

hard confirming itself doesn't matter when you and the confirmee are both dead

actually hard confirming a good traveller is really nothing lol

compared to confirming a resident

[sour harness]

Yeah lol

[flat lintel]

agreee

[fast anchor]

idk, i just don't really like apprentice's concept

[spiral pollen]

apprentice sailor is definitely too powerful though

[fast anchor]

even if it had better interactions I just don't like how apprentice fits with the other travelers

[sour harness]

I really like the concept, just not as much how it plays out in practice

[fast anchor]

it's so completely unlike everything else where I just don't want to play in games with them or run them as an ST anymore

[pseudo fulcrum]

i've just looked through all of the BMR TF and i'd say apprentice works with 10.5/13 of them

[spiral pollen]

the problem with all travellers on BMR is tea lady and innkeeper

[next marlin]

I co-STed a fun game with some traveller tea lady science

Unfortunately it ended d2 due to marionette own goal but town was still happy

[dense moat]

Out of curiosity, which Traveller is your least favorite?

[spiral pollen]

and chambermaid to a lesser extent

[next marlin]

I've mulled over having apprentice minions duplicate in-play minions

[spiral pollen]

innkeeper and tea lady interacting with travelers is just broken lol

[next marlin]

town is starting to catch on to "the barista is always evil and doubling the cerenovus" so I'm going to have to switch to apprentice cerenovus

[pseudo fulcrum]

Grandmother - Confirms itself, but that's kinda what GM does
Sailor - Yeah this is bad
Chambermaid - Normal
Exorcist - Normal
Innkeeper - Normal
Gambler - You could say the gambler dying would confirm the apprentice since travellers usually don't die at night? but that could be very different on a script like BMR
Gossip - Normal
Courtier - Normal
Professor - Confirms itself, but that's no different to regular professor
Minstrel - Normal
Tea Lady - Normal
Pacifist - Normal
Fool - Bad like Sailor

[next marlin]

I've seen surprisingly many traveller night deaths

I've been a traveller who was nightkilled

[spiral pollen]

apprentice assassin self-kill to bluff gambler and get someone executed sounds pretty solid for an evil traveller

[next marlin]

(it was a lleech game and the lleech killed me because he figured town would know I wasn't the host, I informed him at grim reveal that I would 100% lleech host a perma-traveller)

[spiral pollen]

fools definitely less game breaking than sailor but just boring

[sour harness]

Hmmm... come to mind

[next marlin]

Beggar is cool

[sour harness]

I've never been beggar but it seems really unfun

[next marlin]

Gangster does the killing traveller thing better than Gunslinger in that people will actually vote in games with Gangsters

[sour harness]

I'd love to be wrong about that lol

[next marlin]

Beggar is weird spicy Oracle

I once saw a Beggar gain the Recluse's vote token and learn "neutral"

I want to do this someday

[sour harness]

You can't really avoid getting yourself killed, and the placement of the gangster will either sometimes make the game very quick, or give a very strong hint as to where the demon is

Gunslinger has counterplay and isn't dependent on seating

Even with its problems

[sour harness]

Actually yeah I'd say matron is my least favorite

[next marlin]

Oh it's very imperfect but I think it's still a better killing trav than Gunslinger

[spiral pollen]

bishop

[next marlin]

Matron is Not Fantastic

I did have a really funny game where the evil matron accidentally threw by separating the Lleech and the Lleech-hosted Marionette, who absolutely refused to believe he was the mario because he rejects post-d1 mario claims

[sour harness]

Never played with bishop and I'm told it plays out differently from what I assumed, so I'm not gonna rank it until I play with it I think

[sour harness]

Oop

Just about everything seems to have gone wrong in that one lol

[next marlin]

I was the good barista and all info that game went through me because the info roles were the widow-poisoned VI, the drunk VI, the puzzledrunk general, and the lleech-hosted marionette-oracle

Oh and the apprentice mathematician

[sour harness]

Pff

Matron seems probably fun in text games or maybe online live games, but irl I'm calling for its exile every chance I get

I also have essentially no experience with text games

[pseudo fulcrum]

The thing about Apprentice is that it's the least traveller-like traveller. For some people that a good thing, me included. I love the fact that i get to play like a normal game while also being able to leave early or join late. For some people that's a bad thing, they think that the whole point of travellers is to be different to regular players.

[sly crescent]

for me it's kinda like Fiddler, really a last resort tool to make something happen like let someone stay in for half the game when they don't know anything about travellers

my experience is good apprentice does little because it won't get confirmable ability and will be suspected evil sometimes and evil apprentice does A LOT; but other players are almost never voting on exile early for game optimal reasons, only on socially evil reads sometimes

[lucid crag]

One time I was so sus as Amnesiac I was executed, by proxy of me accidentally confirming an evil, lying about confirming an other evil, fake outing evil to a fake goon, then whispering the demon. The evil team was doomed almost immediately.

For what it's worth I thought I dreamed a seam right (they were harpy claiming seamstress), I faked dreaming a tinker and outed I faked it (they were baron turns out), and when I faked outing evil to the goon not only were they fake but I said next people I whisper would be on my team (I whispered the demon immediately)

Oh also i didn't bingo

had a yaggababble phase that let me do tf stuff depending how much I said it

Wasn't me that was right for wrong reasons, but town certainly was

[dense hound]

I mean, it's a classic but I was an empath with a 0 all game

....Including the final 3. I decided that I was probably poisoned in some way but I couldn't figure out how so I simply just nominated the virgin who didn't proc and got them successfully executed, during the grim reveal when it was revealed they were actually the virgin I was devastated

Of course I was the marionette

who was not told EVER

[devout quail]

one time we did 5p snv with teensie rules. i was dreamer who found out my neighbor was artist or no dashii (giving me no dashii as the prospective evil was an admitted blunder on the st's part). i get a claim out of them and they claim artist. a third player has claimed snake charmer who's confirmed a fourth player as not the demon. i lead a nomination on the fifth player and get them executed.

the fifth player was the vortox. my neighbor was a cerenovus who just happened to claim artist. the "snake charmer" was ceremad. i solved the game off of entirely false/nonexistent information.

[wispy nest]

choose 3 people. They are drunk for 1 day + night. Once per game.

[mild notch]

July 22:
So we have the Gaslight Demon (), we have the Gatekeep Demon (), what would the Girlboss Demon be?
(Corrections on the first two also accepted)

[sour harness]

I mean, they're all gaslight demons

But sure legion is one of the more gaslighty ones

[fiery finch]

||skinculus||

[fast anchor]

catch me interpreting literally every demon as female and thus they all qualify for girlboss

[indigo osprey]

So in your view this game is all about collectively finding and killing women? :s

[zenith lotus]

oh no

also i say riot

[dense moat]

Worse. All the Demons are lesbians, so town is collectively homophobic too /j

Side note: I imagine Imp as the girlboss Demon just because I always imagine Imp is closer to their Minions than any other Demon

And so the female Imp is also directly in command of her Minions, leading the charge

[sly crescent]

who doesn't like a proper witch hunt

[fiery finch]

women be shopping

[fast anchor]

see, this is the kind of clocktower headcanon i'm on board with

[dense moat]

I mean, Preacher is a Townsfolk. Are we sure why they are trying to execute Demons?

/j

Except High Priestess of course. She’s in a loving relationship with her gf, the Pixie

[foggy grotto]

isn’t pixie like a body snatcher

that’s a kinda toxic relationship if pixie is just waiting for HP to die so they can steal her body

[dense moat]

In their case, I interpret it as the Pixie loving the HP so much she takes on the mantle when the HP dies herself

Pixie is realistically a body snatcher in all cases, but who has ever let logic or canon get in the way of a nice ship?

[foggy grotto]

true…

[cloud plover]

The way I see it, Pixie is more like "I wanna be a real boy!" type of energy. Just copy what the other guys are doing until you get the hang of it, and one day they're a real townsfolk

If it was "body snatching," people wouldn't ever notice it when you take over (a la Spy appearing as a townsfolk role) but out the gate, Pixie and its target are very obviously different people in different chairs

[foggy grotto]

i’m referring to irl pixie lore

[dense moat]

The teddy bear is some sort of reference to fey stealing children. But i dont remeber all the details

[sly crescent]

i don't think snatching has to be involved, they just want the vacancy to open

but then again why don't they have an ability to do the job until the previous person on the job dies 🤔

[lost thistle]

trans pixie 👏

[foggy grotto]

7/23
This was discussed somewhat in #botc-memes , but If the fabled were all demons, what would some of their abilities be?

[dense moat]

Each night*, choose a player: they die. On your 1st night, choose 2 players (not yourself): they register as the same character & alignment

[sly crescent]

Sentinel - there is at least one outsider in play oh wait nvm

[fast anchor]

: Each night*, choose a player: they and a person of their alignment die.

[sour harness]

: For each time you publicly interrupted a player today, a player might die.

[fast anchor]

the "Bro visited his friend" Demon

[sour harness]

: at the end of day 3 it's just straight up fiddler. Works kinda like leviathan

: vortox

[fast anchor]

fiddler is matsuraid

[sour harness]

Kinda yeah

[flat lintel]

One rule changed in the game. Each night*, a player dies. The first player to declare said rule wins.

[sour harness]

And then the rule is "whoever wins, loses, and vice versa"

[wispy nest]

Sad

[foggy grotto]

this actually seems fun wtf

[sour harness]

super tricky to balance

but in terms of a nonconforming demon? yeah seems fun

[flat lintel]

If you enjoy insane ideas, please feel free to subscribe to my journey!

[pliant grail]

Spirit of Ivory is kinda just fang gu honestly
Maybe ||dolomite||

[flat lintel]

i just realized how interesting lleech and ogre would be

especially if lleech host was ogre friend

[dense hound]

: Each Night*, the newest player dies.

[dense moat]

Each night* choose a player: they die. You know the alive good player who the Storyteller thinks is best at the game: they are poisoned

[next marlin]

This would go hard on a script with Kazali

[fast anchor]

24/7: You’re playing S&V and just pulled the Mutant token from the bag. What are you bluffing?

[sour harness]

Mutant

(jk)

Probably juggler, at least d1. I've found that it's very commonly useful to bluff

Might also just hard claim sage. That's something I'd do even if I wasn't the mutant

[flat lintel]

Pithag

[dense hound]

Oracle with a fall back on being a snake charmer who wasnt sure if theyd be demon eventually, may come out if I am sure its not a fang gu game

[indigo osprey]

I am just saying I am the mutant to anyone, because a day 1 execution as mutant is fine

[dense hound]

Until youre not executed and become a fang gu candidate

[zenith lotus]

i would claim clockmaker

[indigo osprey]

That’s on them

[sly crescent]

it varies for me but it's usually generic info townsfolk like Flowergirl

[copper quail]

Probably Philo if I need time to see what TF ability I want to bluff
Otherwise maybe Savant for fun or Clockmaker if I want to die asap

[pliant grail]

I have a blast doing homework as the mutant, so probably town crier

[foggy grotto]

it quite literally is on you

[dense moat]

Villiage Idiot : )

In seriousness, maybe Math or Sage or something

[next marlin]

No particular order:

1. Hard claim Sage loudly to everyone, dare demon to kill me
2. Savant
3. Cerenovus
4. Philo-Mutant

Alternatively just shrug and claim Mutant depending on how I feel like playing

Base outsider count matters here

In base 2 I'm more likely to out

In base 0, lol no

In base 1 I'll probably just spend the entire game in a state of abject terror while keeping an ear out for other claims

[lucid crag]

Whatever the person whispering me is claiming

7 double claims day 1

[indigo osprey]

I can't execute myself?

[foggy grotto]

yeah but the ST isn’t gonna use the mutant ability to help the good team lol

[sly crescent]

note to self: always claim Mutant when playing SnV with Bluwe

[indigo osprey]

So it’s up to the other players to execute me?

[foggy grotto]

fair nuff

[noble radish]

There is no such thing as tilled dirt it is called farmland

[lost thistle]

philo who's saving up for a late-game juggle

but also with a little "wink wink i might be philo sage though"

this is also what i would probably do if i actually get philo

late-game juggles are powerful

since by then there's not really a case of "oh i dont know what everyone's claiming"

and you can fine tune your juggle based on everyone else's info to cleave through a whole bunch of worlds

oh yeah also you get to make a fake juggle every single day which is also fun

[sour harness]

Recently I pulled philo and:
D1 claimed juggler
N2 chose sage
D2 claimed philo juggler
D3 claimed philo artist
D4 I think nothing changed but notably I never claimed to use it
N5 actually died, though we kinda knew who the demon was

[fast anchor]

I am a proponent (especially in longtext) of the double juggler gambit as philo

Go philo-juggler d1, then find the real Juggler

then juggle the same 4 good players and then each other

I think it was Kuro who told me about it

[sour harness]

How does this help exactly

OH is it because if one of you dies it's fine?

[dense moat]

7/26: BOTC is now a horror movie. Which character dies first?

[pseudo fulcrum]

Tinker lmao

[zenith lotus]

the ST

[noble radish]

The Person who is telling you the story

[fast anchor]

no the tinker lives until f3 and then dies

[sharp violet]

he died and then all the main characters come in

aside from the ST, it's gotta be the Artist

[sly crescent]

if it's the movie the ST turns out to be the killer and Tinker has a series of "almosts" before getting it. it's usually overconfidence that gets the first guy i reckon Fool

[vale oxide]

[foggy grotto]

[zenith lotus]

aside from the ST, i would probably say the saint. Good people never last

[dense hound]

Bounty hunter

They always kill off the expert first to show off that everyone is screwed

[fast anchor]

Yeah, the person who knows too much dies first

I was thinking FT, but BH also works

[fiery finch]

not sure about who dies, but rk is the sole survivor at the end

[sharp violet]

That's also why I said Artist, a creative type to go first and a more intelligent type (like Librarian) second

[pseudo fulcrum]

27/7: If you could add one channel to this server, what would it be?

[fast anchor]

#text-game-b3

that queue moves sloooow

[dense moat]

a character spam channel. People could post homebrew characters, but the actual discussion of those characters would happen in character discussion

[zenith lotus]

text-game-x4 lol

[fast anchor]

you don't want that

[sharp violet]

||It already exists, but only for Besjbo, it was used for his Sax and Violins All Amne games||

[copper quail]

|| It also existed for a twinned game Hannah's made on last March ||

[lost thistle]

getting some newer homebrews a channel in #626025489919770644 would be neat, maybe?

actually why do we still have stuff like #a-new-kind-of-fairy-tale

feels a bit weird since we both have those channels which havent had any additions to them, and also the forum

i think i’d suggest fall of rome, bootlegger’s anthology, and fyf for channels there

[fast anchor]

||clarke was in that one, wasn’t he? a being like him had to be sentenced to hell, it was the only way||

[sly crescent]

#text-game-nsfw

[lucid crag]

#vent-about-clarke

[copper quail]

|| Indeed! That's probably why the channel got deleted right after ||

[peak adder]

The forum was supposed to replace the channels but mod team never got around to archiving the channels. Hypothetically Carat could be altered slightly to do the OffServerArchiving into a forum post I think?

[flat lintel]

7/28 - Best sitcoms?

[fiery finch]

always sunny in Philadelphia…?

[sly crescent]

is that it? we reached the end of BotC already?

[fiery finch]

clocktower is kill

[sour harness]

no

[sly crescent]

anyway parks&rec was epic

[flat lintel]

True

Micheal schur sitcoms are great

[ebon idol]

BoTC is now cancelled sorry 😔

[lucid crag]

7/29 - TPI is running out of ideas for the next character reveal! Come up with a new You Start Knowing role so they don't have to release Steward 2.0: Stew Harder

[sour harness]

A good player starts knowing who you are

It's a reverse grandma

Strictly speaking not a YSK but still

If this is too strong, a good player starts knowing you're in play

You start knowing the longest chain of townsfolk

YSK the farthest distance between two Minions

Wait no that doesn't work if there aren't enough minions nvm

[sharp violet]

You start knowing 4 players, containing 3 character types among them. [At least 1 Outsider]

Actually probably too strong in 0 outsider games edit made to accomodate

You start knowing 1 out-of-play character of each alignment.

[sly crescent]

Proctologist (Townsfolk): You start knowing who the storyteller thinks is most likely to be alive at the end of the game.

[patent elbow]

The demon?

[onyx saffron]

I mean

Demon can die before it

just because they kinda need to survive untill final 3 doesn't mean they will

[indigo osprey]

This is too vague or useful imo

[primal crescent]

this is known to be busted

[fiery finch]

YSK who the demon is

[dense hound]

YSK who the storyteller believes you shouldn't execute most.

It could be an important townsfolk or maybe it's a boomdandy/goblin, who knows

It could even be the demon if its a heretic game

[sour harness]

Good to know

Wait should I stop giving it in savant info or does savant sufficiently nerf it

[fast anchor]

it's good savant info but super strong for, like, d1

doesn't stop me from giving it d1 anyway and giving the savant good info the whole game though 💪

[sour harness]

"the longest chain of townsfolk is 3, or the longest chain of non-townsfolk is 3"

[severe raven]

YSK what the Demon bluffs are.

[sharp violet]

That’s broken because if anyone claims those roles you know they’re lying

[sly crescent]

the evil team would also know this character is on script, so there is counterplay, but knowing the bluffs is actually stronger than "demon doesn't get bluffs"

[agile sigil]

YSK 3 characters, 2 of which are in play.

[sour harness]

"YSK some characters, some of which are in play" is some I've seen thrown around a lot. I wonder what the right numbers actually are, or if it's always over/underpowered (or just unfun)

[sly crescent]

lot of homebrews have this, it's very script-dependant though. learning a Drunk or a Goblin is/isn't in play is massive, while learning of Undertaker or Cerenovus is like meh

and yeah the more characters they give the more built-in misinformation they receive, which is kinda sad; TPI figured out in play 1 seems to be best (Washerwoman, Grandmother etc) because it works with smaller number of players, out of play is more open because 15p games are rarely played but still shouldn't be more than 1-2

[peak adder]

Why not round off Washerwoman/Librarian/Investigator? You start knowing that 1 of 2 players is a particular Demon (or that zero are in play).

[next marlin]

Good Twin Clockmaker

[sour harness]

I mean that's what knight is for

Kinda

[flat lintel]

Also submit your ideas in the homebrew contest because that also has a YSK theme

[dense hound]

minions during magician games:

[sharp violet]

where is that?

[flat lintel]

#server-competition-announcements

[lucid crag]

I had no idea lmao

[cloud plover]

Sleeper Agent: (Minion)

You start knowing two townsfolk roles and their players. If you die in the night, they die instead. You do not know the Evil Team. The Evil team knows you are in play, but not who you are.

[sour harness]

Evil doesn't have to know it's in play, they can figure that out when they see one less minion

[sharp violet]

Unless Marionette is present (for the other minions)

[sour harness]

Sleeper Agent (Minion): You start knowing 2 Townsfolk players and their characters. If you die at night, they die instead. [You are excluded from evil info]

[sour harness]

Nah the evil team can talk to each other

Magician is the one thing that might throw it off but that's simply a bad interaction

[sly crescent]

[evil info is not happening during setup] 😉

[flat lintel]

Feels like a weaker Spy

[fast anchor]

30/7: What's a piece of ST advice you disagree with?

[sour harness]

ooh thats a cool question

too bad i cant think of a good answer rn

[shrewd cloud]

Hmmm tricky question

I guess for now, my answer would be “Be as unpredictable as possible as ST.” There is merit to trying not to be super predictable as an ST (with respect to things like what you put into the bag and what you make the Drunk) but there are lots of characters (especially in BMR) that benefit from a predictable framework

And not ST advice per say but rather script advice but while I see most people here speak about Lleech being bad with execution survival roles (something I agree with), I still see that as a common piece of advice in the wider community when someone is building a Lleech script. It’s a situation where I can understand why people initially wanna give the Lleech cover but once you actually get a chance to see how Lleech works with stuff like Tea Lady and Sailor it starts to become clearer why they can be super jank and feelsbad together

[dense hound]

Can you explain a predictable framework? (not disagreeing, just curious to what you mean)

[shrewd cloud]

Stuff like Sailor generally making good players drunk if it chooses good players, itself drunk if it chooses an evil player

And Pacifist having some sort of framework for why it procs. I don’t go full Temporary with a chart (no offense intended) but being a little more predictable about when you would reasonably proc a Pacifist is healthier for the game imo

[agile sigil]

Here’s the thing. With the character I’m proposing you don’t know who is what. So there’s no real confirmation there

[agile sigil]

This is a big one. There was a game I was in that ended…poorly (my 2nd game of BMR, had to be fiddled) where ST chose to not pacifist save a Lunatic in a GF game (ehh but ok imo), saved an Exorcist, then when evil team framed that as a DA save was NOT going to save the exorcist again

Also I just realized I’ve been a part of 4 BMR games: Twice as the demon, Twice as the ST

[foggy grotto]

2 huge ones

1. Always balance the game.

Me when the ST uses the pacifist to support an evil bluff because evil is getting stomped or not breaking a clear madness break by good because evil is winning. TF helps good team, Outsiders and Minions help evil. not every game is gonna be perfectly balanced and using abilities against their own team to create a balancing act will be unfun for players

2. Don’t meta me.

I think this originates from a good place, saying not to figure what characters the ST will put in the bag, but when the ST uses characters with “might” in their ability unpredictably just so they can’t “be meta’d” makes the ability useless because it requires meta info a bit. Mostly talking about Sailor and Pacifist here but it applies to any ability with ST choice too

[vital nova]

Hot take especially as a text player here but

“always help Evil as much as possible”

My personal philosophy is that the ST should make decisions that first and foremost make the game fun and engaging for both teams, and while that more often veers towards helping evil than good, it does not intrinsically favor one side. For instance, while I know many cringe when TF abilities are used to help evil, I also cringe when characters with variable Outsider mod always add maximal Outsiders, or IK always drunks the worse player, etc.

Slightly hotter variant of it is that I think this expectation can create toxic situations for both STs and players: it sucks when STs feel they must perfectly align misinfo to fit Evil’s bluffs, but it can also for instance make a player look more miniony if the ST followed them to know what bluff to show the Dreamer than if the ST just messed up and the Minion claims to have lied D1.

Further, and hotter corollary take: sometimes an individual game goes good-favored early, and it’s best to let it be solved and short and start another game than drag it out with incredibly pro-evil decisions

[dense moat]

Fun fact: I did see a Legion game yesterday where the ST killed all but 1 Legion & did final 3 because Legion mechanically outed themselves on a vote. That was nice to mak sure the game wasnt dragged out

[indigo osprey]

The only advice that I actually see commonly (sometimes) mentioned that I disagree with is 'first play base 3 scripts a gazillion times before customs'. But that's not really ST advice.

None of the examples so far are things I actually see in the contexts provided

[sour harness]

I've never heard this advice lol

[sharp violet]

I also think it's fine to play customs relatively early as long as the group as a whole is experienced with social deduction games in general

[fast anchor]

You’re also not a text player

[sour harness]

This is true

[peak adder]

yet.

[sour harness]

Don't text games have limitations on how much you can talk? Can't that be balanced so the ST doesn't have to play for evil?

SnV text typically adds fibbin right? I feel like there has to be a better way

[peak adder]

SnV with Fibbin was a trend for a while but yeah people don’t like it

[primal crescent]

see now that’s something i wish people did more

if legion out themselves just kill all of the outed legion

it’s not like you’re going waste any executions 💀

(tbf there’s always the point of depriving the good team of the number of nights with info)

[vital nova]

The limitation on how much you can talk I’d say balances more for the time: it’s meant to equal about the number of substantive conversations you’d have in a live game.

The biggest things generally I think are the recall/searchability (a bit, I’ve seen it relied on a lot less post end of full lockdown where there’s not just one player who might have time to reread the entire game 🙈) and more critically imo worldbuilding as text truly does allow good players enough time to exhaustively map out all of the present options (most scripts honestly aren’t hard solved imo, but I think many times “let’s kill whoever has the most possible worlds of demonhood” consistently before F3 just hits the demon more often than live) can make it skew Good-favored in the midgame, and lategame the time to rally votes on noms does skew Good a bit more than normal

It leads to a lot of STs (and players) acting as though STs must be helping evil every step of the way or else evil will lose. I’m… not convinced as articulated above that that’s helpful when a common solve meta I’ve seen is “well sure you’ve got 2 pieces of info clearing you but in the world with you demon, one’s your minion and the other’s drunk; while the other player with info framing them looks more evil but 🤷‍♀️ we’ll exe them tomorrow if we get there”

[flat lintel]

7/31 (When the day starts for you) - What are some cringe metas?

[foggy grotto]

UT immediately talks to the executed player

its not cringe, more just obvious

also the GM and Grandchild always swapping

it gets too obvious if they always do it

[dense hound]

Storytellers balancing the game with the expectation of the philo picking the right role

[sour harness]

Misregistering recluse to the investigator every single time

[sharp violet]

Killing Mayors / Soldiers just because

[sour harness]

Rarely putting the demon in noble pings

Treating noble pings as evil pings when they're actually good pings

[fiery finch]

Artists asking the vortox question

[flat lintel]

personal extension: asking the two step artist question

[flat lintel]

thats so real

[sour harness]

"it could've been a pacifist save!!" yes brenda that's mechanically possible. However it's much more likely that the claimed tea lady's neighbors are simply good, and if not then that player was just DA protected

Idk who Brenda is, that just felt right

[fiery finch]

I’m not sure if I have ever seen a real professor in a bmr game

[sour harness]

In general, always giving certain roles as bluffs and never putting them in the bag

"there's a pithag so there probably won't also be a barber" etc

[fiery finch]

the erotic barber

[zenith lotus]

fun meta from the early days of TB: the Drunk cant be a top 4!

[sour harness]

Oh boy

Ooh here's one that's not that cringe: empaths are never real

Hate that role

[fiery finch]

Nobody ever uses the off-script atheist (cringe)

[sour harness]

(it's still cringe, just less than normal)

[sharp violet]

Early days as in what

[zenith lotus]

from my group

[dense hound]

"If you didnt claim virgin day 1 youre lying"

[sour harness]

I remember at pax I played a game with mostly beginners and nobody was building worlds that the chef was drunk, but that was what happened

[sharp violet]

Ive seen an unprocced virgin make it to final 3 and win

[sour harness]

Wait really

That's incredible actually

[zenith lotus]

thats insane

[sour harness]

TB?

[sharp violet]

Ye

The other good in Final 3 was a Mayor

[sour harness]

Lol nice

[zenith lotus]

oh ok that makes more sense lol

[flat lintel]

• high priestess always seeing good: the role is not each night, steward!!
• duex es fiasco just being up! most of the time as a player im thinking oh shit I have to disregard one thing and reconsider something and that just ruins my mood. post game, im considering if you really needed to tell me duex existed
• fisherman being standardized. i loved the fishy riddles.
• pacifist being standardized. i dislike the chart. i think its good to help people get to know how to run pacifist, but you shouldn't chart something that doesn't have a builtin structure.
• amnesiac abilities that are too hard to guess. if by the end of a long game, I have no clue what my ability is, than that's not how amnesiac is meant to be run IMO.
• chaos hatter for the fun of it. if you are going to add the most damaging good character in a script, i need at least 5 bulletpoints on why its there or im not playing.
• the multi step artist question!
• all good players play strictly for good and appear as good at all times! some people delve into evil, but that doesn't make them evil..

ill stop for now 🥰

[dense hound]

Eh I think fisherman being standardized is fine, you can ask for a fishy riddle if you want

[zenith lotus]

dont they have to publicly admit when something is wrong for deus es fiasco?

[foggy grotto]

problem with the first one is an evil player is rarely the best person for the HP to see on n1

[sour harness]

Oh yes hp is a big one

[sour harness]

Hard disagree

You can catch a minion without a bluff for example

[foggy grotto]

i had a whole argument about this a while ago

but the tldr is yes there are good HP pings on evil but imo there is always a BETTER n1 good to see

well

almost always

[flat lintel]

^^^ or evil switching a bluff

[foggy grotto]

but tbh i just dont like HP as a role

[flat lintel]

or evil having to make a tough next fake bluff

[next marlin]

Constantly framing bait roles

[flat lintel]

Thats a unique one. Do tell

[next marlin]

It's unavoidable to a degree because "what roles can and can't be framed easily" is a tricky ST consideration but it kind of sucks to have like soldier red herring 100% of the time

And it kills the power of the role if the rk or similar is going to look evil all the time

Whenever I roll a bait role I'm just like, great, I'm going to get executed

I had a fun game as the washerwoman-confirmed soldier, and a fun game as the sage who hardclaimed sage to everyone then "died and learned who the demon was" (was witch-cursed when nominating the demon in a seamstress no with me), and otherwise my and many other peoples' experiences of bait roles is very "get 200 evil pings on you then either get executed early or executed in f3"

[sour harness]

I wanna make a chef or smth the red herring and see what happens

[next marlin]

I had a great game with a librarian red herring where we were all trying to solve for what nights the FT was poisoned

Because obviously the librarian wasn't the RH

[sour harness]

Heh nice

That's exactly what I'm talking about

[next marlin]

best red herring is plague doctor anyway

[next marlin]

Also what's an example of this

I tend to be too hesitant to put philo in the bag because I assume they'll just go dreamer or SC and rip the game in half

(or savant and then I need to come up with 2 savants' worth of info a day and die)

[dense hound]

Mostly from a game where the storyteller put like 0 ongoing info roles because of course all philos go dreamers

[next marlin]

Philo mutant:

[flat lintel]

Furthermore, it makes it so other role is just confirmed Demon. Woah. Only two players to consider in an FT ping. the soldier who is rh’d a lot and a washerwoman. Probably ww.

[sour harness]

The first time this happened to me I was so cooked

[next marlin]

I mean I would love it but I would also definitely die

They'd probably both live to f3 too

In a 15p game I bet

[sour harness]

I mean yeah

But I just wasn't mentally prepared to give that much savant info

[next marlin]

The only time so far I've had the guts to put the philo in the bag (in like 25-30 snv games, oops) he went SC and picked himself every day until he died

[sour harness]

I ended up proving not vortox d2 :(

Maybe d1 I forget

[sour harness]

Iconic

[sharp violet]

Imagine if that drunked an Evil Snake Charmer madr by a Pit-Hag

[fast anchor]

sweetheart-vortox hatejinx

[next marlin]

not sweetheart drunking the vortox

[lucid crag]

unless specifically st put snake charmer in to drunk it

[primal crescent]

yeah icl i’ve started to ban that question in my games

it’s just generally unfun and half of the time i can’t even wrap my head around it

so when it’s banned

i just reply with “idk” bc 1) that is a legal answer and 2) i just don’t know whether to say yes or no 💀

[fast anchor]

what’s the two step Artist question?

is that the ternary question?

[primal crescent]

it’s basically a vortox proof question

[primal crescent]

iirc yeah

[fast anchor]

Oh I’m personally fine with that as an ST but it’s reasonable to ban it

[primal crescent]

no yeah it really depends on the group for me

like i respect it

bc you’ve completely gamed the system

but like

really?

[fast anchor]

I mean, if you ban it you’re in good company - Medway himself also doesn’t allow it

[primal crescent]

oh shit

well that’s fun to know

lmao

[fast anchor]

But I think being able to ask any yes/no question is part of the fun and when I run games I don’t really see it used enough for it to be problematic or overcentralizing

[primal crescent]

Executing spent characters

it’s such bullshit

like sure

you can exe one per game maybe to feed to a UT canni or virgin

but like

if someone is begging for you to execute them

idk man

they’re probably not the demon 💀

[primal crescent]

(the Minion they misregistered as is in the ping)

[primal crescent]

tbf that’s a really fun and ballsy bluff

“I’m an unspent Virgin, if you nominate me we will literally lose”

[peak adder]

The one time I allowed vortox proof questions I was newer and the experienced player who asked the question didn’t agree with vortox proof questions but asked one anyway and acted like they pulled one over me. It felt so bad, never again

[primal crescent]

yeah it’s not fun

the only reason why i’ve ever allowed it on this server

is bc it was utku

and 1) he went through it with me and 2) we stan utku

[fast anchor]

no you stab him too

i saw that edit

[peak adder]

both

[primal crescent]

well yeah i’m the psychopath

[peak adder]

One letter really changes the meaning

[primal crescent]

I claim psychopath and choose axolator

[peak adder]

axolator dies

[fast anchor]

[primal crescent]

Axo:
https://tenor.com/view/cat-flying-flying-cat-jumpscare-jump-gif-20372835

[peak adder]

did utku bribe you with his mod powers

[fast anchor]

i didn’t know luis actually ran games on this server 🙈

[primal crescent]

no i just stabn utku

[primal crescent]

tbf i did for a while but the queue was way too long for me to wait during the exam season

it’s why i usually just do it on the app

[fast anchor]

i thought you were apoc’s strongest soldier

[primal crescent]

oh i am

i’m also a full time student so

💀

[fast anchor]

me calculating when the old queue will get to me so I can st right after all my classes are done (two games ended d2 and I have to leave anyway)

[primal crescent]

#st-queue message

[fast anchor]

[sour harness]

That's how we fight the meta as STs. But then that becomes the new meta

[sly crescent]

if the outsider count can be higher than 0, it is

just because it's the right call 9/10, doesn't make it less cringe to do... anything that matters really, without thinking

[lucid crag]

I've recently allowed a vortox proof spy proof question, And while I probably shouldn't of, did not care given it was 1 a vortox game and 2 the person asking was a vortoxed pixie barber swapped into the marionette and shouldn't of had the chance to ask in the first place. (I felt a little evil, especially since I answered the question truthfully as it asked if the poisoned/vortoxed cannibal currently artist was good 🤣)

I think I'll probably disallow the spy proof stuff going forward though since it seemed too much

[flat lintel]

The player who did this to me pulled me aside and had to explain to me what the questions was and that took like a good 2 minutes of live, so nope not again

If it takes me longer than 20 seconds to answer your question, I'm just gonna reject it

[lucid crag]

vortox proof I may also ban but I haven't ran artist enough to know for sure

[lucid crag]

Killing atheist day 1 or 2 or 3 or early in general

Demon's not claiming atheist in most all cases

[flat lintel]

100% evil or atheist or drunk

[dense hound]

depends on the minions on script it can still be worth it to get it out the way

[sour harness]

I'm sorry, pixie barber??

[lucid crag]

pixie artist

[sour harness]

Ah ok

I was about to ask what kind of script has both pixie and artist but SnV have philo and artist

[lucid crag]

though pixie barber is a sick ability /j

[lucid crag]

#1260308710904037506

[zenith lotus]

it doesnt work because pixie has to see a townsfolk

you could do pixie philo or pixie canni tho

[lucid crag]

Yeah that's the /j lol

[sly crescent]

about 50:50 outsider/evil is on average probably 5 times higher chance to execute evil player D1 than in an actual "evil ping" like Investigator 🙃 demon not claiming it is about as much a factor as Fortune Teller not claiming it

[sly crescent]

i think it causes almost no issues and it's too reasonable to be called cringe, could be considered too reasonable to be called meta even. if you don't like this being a strong course of action add Cerenovus/Cannibal to the script, the equation changes in favor of being cautious about executing Atheist claims

[sly crescent]

maybe "demon is not in Noble pings"?

[lucid crag]

It depends what's on script and who you ask I guess, but I think it's cringe

[karmic slate]

I'm late to the party but expanding off point (1) here "Get to Final 3". The STs job is not to get to Final 3 or Final Day, it is to create an enjoyable experience for all players involved. This often means the game gets to Final 3/Day but making decisions just to favour your chances of getting to those moments can damage the game's state so much and it's not worth it

[karmic slate]

"They're claiming a good Demon bluff" (aka Soldier/Mayor/Ravenkeeper). Oh I don't like it when metas evolve around this and executing outsiders/top 4 because they're not good demon bluffs or expendable.

If the role isn't a good Demon bluff, it wouldn't be on the script!

[flat lintel]

7/32 (8/1) - What's something you would change about your part of the server?

[flat lintel]

virgin/professor/golem

[karmic slate]

Can still be a good demon bluff!

[flat lintel]

I see where you're coming from, but fmpov, often when you get something to Final 3, you're helping Evil to an extent? however, you're also giving good more chances to catch up and execute the demon?

Unless I'm wrong

[fierce reef]

hmmm maybe we should get a "baby carat" for livetext (mostly voting)? just with some simple convenient commands- idk, just a random idea

[flat lintel]

omg a baby carat is so CUTEEE!!!

[fierce reef]

on the other side of things, i do feel like with long-text, since people spend so much time on a single game, they tend to take it very seriously rather than enjoying the game(not that there's anything wrong with that, of course!), but often that can lead to conflict and emotional bleed

[fierce reef]

IKRR

[flat lintel]

how would you change this?

[fierce reef]

no idea 🤷‍♀️ 😭

people enjoy dedicating entire weeks to a single game and enjoy the problem solving process, and that's great! it's just in the townsquare discussion it becomes heated, especially if one person is just 'memeing' while others are trying really hard yk?

[karmic slate]

If this is in response to my response to Kenobi's point, if you're running a good game that's already balanced and fair then you often get to Final 3 without needing to balance the game a bit further? If it's not then I don't quite understand sorry

[flat lintel]

I think a superhelpful baby carat would be able to:

• Create game threads
• Have a sub function to sub people into threads
• create a kibitz thread and add people you ping in the same message to it
• Toggle stlivetext/livetext

[flat lintel]

fair point!

[fierce reef]

shall we make a suggestion in the forum 👀

[flat lintel]

oh and like something to tell people a scheduled is being run soon

and also daytimers

[fierce reef]

ya sure! i can make a thread now if you want

[flat lintel]

voting is a big eh for me. yes, it would be helpful. however, voting is how I personally am able to focus on a vote and manage things as a storyteller. in text, it's okay because in kibitz, you have time to read through it all and than confirm the votes. here, I don't think a count votes thing works..

[fierce reef]

mmmmm that makes total sense

personally, i've only ST'd livetext once, but i did find it kind of inconvenient to have to type up the whole grim in clockhand order in the heat of the moment idk tho

[flat lintel]

i think the main thing is
everyone personally should know at some point, you need to stop meming and sorta lock in or else you're going to hurt some people's feelings and stuff
and the other thing is that memeing is apart of the game and so when someone jokes or lies or stuff like that, even if it's upsetting, they are allowed to

[flat lintel]

oh yeah that's true! you know what else is annoying too.. grim images 😭

[fierce reef]

absolutely

😭 idk what to tag the forum post with, there's no livetext tag LOL

or should we put it in text-game-forum

[flat lintel]

sure

Grim images are so annoying bc you spend literally all day focusing and reading and counting votes and than you have to go do a grim image

shoutout to axos and co for doing this for the st sometimes!!

[sly crescent]

broadly i would move it to not discord. discord is horrible

[fierce reef]

hmmm how is discord bad?

i’m not against that opinion, just wondering what specifically lol

[sly crescent]

i could be using it wrong is the thing, but first of all search is awful. in my experience it sometimes doesn't even find messages which verbatim have the queried phrase, browsin results is tedious. and if i go to a different channel for a second, going back to the search i need to start over.

there's no way i know of finding who/where/what/when pinged you. if the channel scrolls 400 messages past the ping, i'd have to scroll back that far to find the highlighted message? no thanks mark as read move on

ok i checked can do mentions:user in search 😅 that helps, but the ping could come from role ping like game or lfg

[dense hound]

you can also go to inbox and check mentions

[sly crescent]

ok the mention issues have solutions. still search support for threads and forums is not there and it's infuriating

[primal crescent]

-# Homebrewing:
Encourage people to give advice but also receive advice

I’ve seen too many ideas just be left on read

and too many instances of people just refusing to accept given feedback that they asked for

that and also i just want it to interest a bigger size of the community

I sometimes hear that people don’t like homebrews because they tend to be half-cooked ideas without much thought but that’s only the bad ones

[sour harness]

Well, they do tend to be that. But there are plenty of great ones that aren't that at all

And the good ones aren't too hard to find

[flat lintel]

Comes from a time where people didn’t know much about how to facilitate Homebrews, and those who knew these stuff were not consulted

[flat lintel]

Is this live or homebrew?

I lowkey get not wanting to try advice. Sometimes I’ve been told try this before, but I’m like I want to make this work. My thing with homebrews is if you have a central idea, make it work, but if you want peer review, you should be willing to change a bit about it.

[peak adder]

Or at least if you don’t want to take the advice you get (because you don’t have to), don’t fight back against the people who gave it because this is not supposed to be a fight

People are saying “I think this would be better if you changed this” not “you have to change this right now”

[primal crescent]

yeah exactly

[foggy grotto]

8/2 You draw the Kazali token in a 12p whalebucket game. which 2 minions are you picking?

[sour harness]

Spy is just there for the synergy, but there's probably a better pick

I think pithag is hands down the best minion in whalebucket

[primal crescent]

to be clear

what’s whalebucket

[sour harness]

All official characters rolled into one giant script

[primal crescent]

right so fishbucket lmao

[sour harness]

Fishbucket + experimentals

[primal crescent]

oh wait is fishbucket supposed to be only b3

bruh

[sour harness]

Yeah typically

[minor pier]

Hard to argue against Pit Hag. Spy I already find kinda unfun as the Demon, especially so in whalebucket, so I'd rather pick something like Psychopath

[primal crescent]

this is not the way penguin wished it to be 😔

[fast anchor]

, then do ph fg shenaniganery

maybe make the widow the psycho or an evil gossip or something

[spiral pollen]

summoner pit-hag?

[fast anchor]

turn the widow into the summoner n3?

[primal crescent]

and is the correct answer lmao

bc then you just cycle through the minions at will

[fast anchor]

then n4 turn the widow into the og

[spiral pollen]

attempts to make a widow, ST shows you the heretic token

[sour harness]

are good picks too

[fast anchor]

oh yeah i forgot that PH-SW is disgusting

[primal crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/demon-cat-scary-cat-demon-scary-cat-gif-26356229

yeah that’s a good point acc

[sour harness]

Especially if I know someone can pull off a goblin win

[primal crescent]

but i feel like SW is only really needed if you feel the heat

at which point you just create a SW

[fast anchor]

wait you can do better than pithag fang gu, just make a lleech with the n3-created summoner

[sour harness]

True

[fast anchor]

host a YSK, they'll never know

[primal crescent]

TRUE

[fast anchor]

then make the summoner the sw and kill the host on 5

gg ez

[primal crescent]

just keep switching between Lleech and Fang Gu

what are they going to do

execute you?

💀

[sour harness]

If the ST adds a spirit of ivory just pithag them into the fibbin

[primal crescent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720010349587202200/1248394749979787386/whyyy.gif

[fast anchor]

start pithagging people into offscript characters

you are now the Kabal

[primal crescent]

wait-

[peak adder]

ikr?

[fast anchor]

PH the ST into the Bootlegger and you can do anything

[primal crescent]

surprise Matsuraid

[peak adder]

b3 fishbucket is b3 fishbucket, + experimentals makes fishbucket

[spiral pollen]

In whalebucket if a vizier is executed evil wins because of the courtier jinx

[primal crescent]

TRUE

[spiral pollen]

So I'd try to set that up

[sharp violet]

Then what’s Kitchen Sink supposed to be

[spiral pollen]

Don't know how

[fiery finch]

🪭

[peak adder]

whalebucket if anything is + speculated characters

[sour harness]

Uhhh including homebrews maybe??? Or just another name for the same thing most likely

[peak adder]

(Though that isn’t a good idea to run)

[lean isle]

Now start pit-hagging into homebrew.

[primal crescent]

tbf ultra bucket with HBL is funny

[sour harness]

I'm gonna pithag someone into the apprentice pithag

[primal crescent]

bruh

[sour harness]

Very real possibility trust

[sharp violet]

I think I’ve heard somewhere that one of the two is basically ignoring normal role distribution, I don’t know which

[sour harness]

5 minions, a lil monsta, and 10 empaths

[primal crescent]

Clocktower All Any, character distribution and alignments are random and there are dupes

[sour harness]

Can't wait

[peak adder]

Any All (legally distinct from All Any) is fishbucket for text games

[sour harness]

No no wait it's just a full town of bounty hunters so everybody's evil but they don't know it

[primal crescent]

oh interesting

[peak adder]

not really, someone just used that name for a text game because they wanted to run fishbucket but were too new to know it was called fishbucket

[primal crescent]

ooohhhh

i mean

that’s still interesting lmao

[sour harness]

B4 + barrow-fog

[peak adder]

going straight from tos to clocktower and wanting to run all any immediately

[primal crescent]

ah-

[fast anchor]

ultra Fishbucket with HBL would go so hard actually

[primal crescent]

i’ve done it before

[peak adder]

“Is there barrow fog or is just nobody dying?”

[primal crescent]

and it does go hard lmao

but the alch-dedalis just chose themself n1 bc they didn’t think it was useful…

SOOOOOOO

@blissful flame *cough*

[sour harness]

Barrow fog on script but actually it's just a zombuul

[peak adder]

exactly

Or legion/lm with a storyteller who’s feeling silly

[primal crescent]

true…

[flat lintel]

Get that extra evil and now the pithag has 3 minions

I would probably change one to and keep it as so, the other to

[dense hound]

tbf you can accomplish this by just turning a random player into the mez and hope they say the word

[blissful flame]

You just had to ping me here to talk about my idiocy lol

[primal crescent]

what nooo

[flat lintel]

Depends, some people will hold onto that word till the end as a failsafe

[dense hound]

Thus the hope part

[flat lintel]

true, but i personally prefer just starting with the confirmed mez so we have that 100% evil

[lucid crag]

Organ grinder Vizier because I want it as obvious as possible I'm kazali /j

[sly crescent]

logically some combination of is correct depending on how you feel about everyone's individual chances to survive D1; Widow + SW for a very pesimissitic look

Organ Grinder is a nice shout though

[sour harness]

Just make a good OG to waste a day or two of executions

[dense hound]

If I'm a good OG I'm making the demon kill me

[sour harness]

Could also make a boomdandy early on (maybe at the start), and then pithag yourself into the OG and have the boomdandy claim to be the OG

[sour harness]

That makes you an outsider but suit yourself

[indigo osprey]

plottwist, de demon is a vigor

[dense hound]

It means if I'm in a final 3 I cannot be the person executed, giving me the best chance to get the demon

[sour harness]

How does everyone else know you're good

[dense hound]

Doesnt matter, I dont vote on myself so I'm not executed

[sour harness]

They're gonna dead vote on you

[sly crescent]

in f3 you just vote on yourself as OG

[sour harness]

Good OG tho

[sly crescent]

ah good OG my bad

[lucid crag]

Why would good deadvote an organ grinder?

If they can't exe the organ grinder in the first place

[dense hound]

In this scenario they'd believe somehow I'm the demon bluffing being a good-organ grinder and the actual organ grinder would be one of the other two

[lucid crag]

Could tell everyone to vote on you and have no execution in that situation maybe, then demon sort of has to kill you

[sharp violet]

Mastermind Assassin

Esp with the Minions not getting in a double claims due to Kazali

[flat lintel]

8/3 - If BOTC characters could play in Olympic sports, which characters would be good at which sports and why?

[dense hound]

I mean acrobat has to be good at gymnastics right

[dense moat]

Archery

[dense hound]

soldier should theoretically be good at shooting also

[dense moat]

But they could also just be trained in melee combat

[dense hound]

Could be but I feel like its more likely with guns

[sharp violet]

||From Turkey /j||

[fierce reef]

rifle shooting obv
i get a diving/curling vibe? curling if winter sports are allowed

either high jump or long jump? i think of her as pretty tall and lithe (is that the word?) also high jumpers and long jumpers are sooo pretty

[sly crescent]

weightlifting

i think of Tinker as skinny and frail, but turns out they've been on steroids for 8 years preparing for this. only problem the steroid abuse might catch up to them

[vale oxide]

fencing

[dusky minnow]

Rock Climbing (or a sport with large teams)

[fast anchor]

Triathalon

[zenith lotus]

High jump 😉

Swimming

[midnight bloom]

Wrestling

[flat lintel]

Assassin would kill the other person…

[vale oxide]

A win is a win

(I have no idea how fencing works and I doubt killing the opponent is allowed)

[sour harness]

"even if for some reason they could not" you know the protective gear is there for a reason right? Assassin really shouldn't be fencing anyone

[dense moat]

At least until you get disqualified

[sly crescent]

marathon

[flat lintel]

why

[flat lintel]

Handball?

[sly crescent]

because it's not sprinting to the finishline that's for sure 😉

[flat lintel]

Why

[flat lintel]

Why

[midnight bloom]

Mayor Haggar

[spiral pollen]

fish

[flat lintel]

counter point: fisherman doesn’t mean good at swimming

[zenith lotus]

i was going with the token, not the actual flavor

[dense hound]

Balloonist - high jump

[fierce reef]

balloonist, discus

[flat lintel]

i can see discus ig, not high jump

i imagine the balloonist to be a middleaged buff dude piloting the balloon or like some scrawny person? maybe theres the high jump

[zenith lotus]

copycat 😉

[fast anchor]

you’d be a bad fisherman if you couldn’t swim

what if something happens to ur boat?

[flat lintel]

okay what type of fisherman are we talking about

commerical local or like out in the boat

bc the type im imagining is the ones on the dock fishing from land

that doesn't require swimming

commerical big boat fishing probably would have a life raft and and an sos signal

so that would probably be minimal swimming, more floating

but like tiny fishy boats, ig those would require some level of swimming

or no, just floating until you can flip the boat back

[fast anchor]

that’s what I’m imagining

[sly crescent]

hehe yeah Fisherman definitely a dude over 50 in a lifejacket paddling with one hand. i'd enter a Golem walking along the bottom of the pool against him

[sly crescent]

8/4 (=2) what could be some lore appropriate (BotC or fantasy in general) insults?
looking for something less generic than "murderer" or "goblin" and probably less graphic than "granny [redacted]"

||it was hugger, definitely granny hugger||

[sour harness]

I use "ok goblin" and "ok marionette" regularly on this server

Particularly reacting to stuff with

The first is "you're evil and we know it" and the second is "you're evil and you don't even know", where 'evil' can mean just about anything lol

[sly crescent]

nice i forgot about Marionette, very botc specific but indeed conveys a non-trivial kinda insulting opinion in a snappy manner

[fiery finch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/620323504805380136/1267807549822865531/idiot_speech_bubble.gif

[sour harness]

The lunatic one is rlly good yeah

[dense moat]

You always kill/execute people without thinking about it & are making stupid choices

A real Golem, you are. Such a Golem

[lucid crag]

"I hope you die in the night" (prob too dark omg lol)

(Affectionately)

[sly crescent]

i hope you die in your sleep - similar vibe, perhaps more wholesome

[lucid crag]

"I love you" in a

[sly crescent]

i probably overthought this but what if, since the whole blue-red token thing etc, Ravenswood Bluff has a blueblood syndrom but way worse, so instead of saying "you are evil" they say: your blood is red

[fiery finch]

you are a blood

[patent elbow]

“I hope your grandchildren die!”

“The math number goes up from you just playing the game”

“You’re someone people would kill twice without a Zombuul on script”

||“With you here, I bet the storyteller is glad they died”|| kinda dark

“The Po would spend all three kills on you just in case the second wasn’t enough”

“Fang gu more like Fuck you”

“People are fine living here with a demon, but if you traveled In we’d all leave”

“Every time a traveler enters our town they see you and turn around”

“Your face is so obnoxious you activate the hells librarian without talking”

Storyteller: ok we’re going be playing with a new fabled character on Saturday, it stops ugly people from playing. so you can’t attend.

[abstract cosmos]

Mayors actively seek death to try bounce it towards you
The crap you talk has gotten far more people killed than any gossip has
Even the Zombuul has more brains than you and they just got eaten by the cannibal

[lucid crag]

This I'd argue is the best insult

[foggy grotto]

“we went to ravenswood bluff and no one knew you”

[lucid crag]

"I bet you'd miss your slayer shot"

[dense hound]

"You'd politician turn accidentally"

[pseudo fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/845749635016556617/1207720780276826212/caption.gif

[foggy grotto]

wow whoever made this gif is probably super cool and awesome and funny

[pseudo fulcrum]

i unironically love it

[sour harness]

Same

[minor pier]

08/05 - Who's the weakest Demon of BotC and why is it Riot ?

(Unironically, Riot feels like Legion except it outed, gave up on being the majority, and gave what was left of its killing power to the opposite team. And most TF on a Riot script feel busted.)

[pseudo fulcrum]

I feel like for some reason people forget that Riot wins after day 3

and forget how incredibly strong that is

the killing bit is meant to mostly be a downside

because it has the incredibly strong ability of straight up winning after day 3

[sharp violet]

Eh

[minor pier]

Winning after D3 is mainly a way to force town to nominate ; otherwise they'd just sit down for 10 days gathering info. In what world (outside of Mayor jinx) does good lose by default on D3 instead of going down to 2 anyway ? I don't see the upside ^^'

[sharp violet]

It's about the threat not the actual Wincon, like Vortox

After having actually played a lot of Riot scripts the good killpower thing is overrated though, Riot just mostly sucks cuz no Minions

[minor pier]

I agree the absence of Minions is what kills it ; having to rely on Outsiders for disruption is a mess, and base 0 games are even worse, even with Sentinel. I'd feel better about it if it had some kind of inbuilt opg misregistration or something to mess with good other than basic evil lies.

But the good killing power isn't overrated in my opinion, and ties into that exact problem : since good can kill anyone they wish, confirmation is deadly ; having 2 good players confirmed means Riot has already lost, since they can't kill those (without outing and getting killed in return - and doing so too early could extend the confirmation), and will always be killed before, by process of elimination. Not having Minion abilities to mess with said confirmation is the other half of the problem.

[sharp violet]

I mean yea, the confirmation felt OP but that was mainly because of the lack of minions that muddy it

Weakest Demon besides Riot is interesting

[minor pier]

Aside from Riot... I'd be torn between Pukka, Lleech and No Dashii.

[sharp violet]

are my 3

i have no idea how good zombuul is cause no ST ever put that in the bag for one of my games

[minor pier]

Zombuul is quite good, if a bit tedious to have on a script xD It encouraging executing dead people can gain evil a lot of time, even if not in play, and while it can be frustrating to not be able to kill, I'd wager it wins enough games to be 'not weak' compared to the others.

[sharp violet]

Ye I've ST'd it a lot and power wise it seems fine

There is one thing I always found ironic tho about Zombuul

The characters that the Zombuul is better against are put less in the bag than the characters Zombuul is worse against for fun reasons

[fast anchor]

Dashii can be insane, definitely not weak

if it's not Riot, then probably Lleech?

if you know who the Lleech is then f3 is a 50/50 that's really hard for evil to win

[sharp violet]

Yea that's my experience with lleech at least watching

[fast anchor]

It tends to out itself, and oftentimes on scripts can self-destruct depending on how science-inclined town is

[minor pier]

I've seen so many ND games where the Demon dies early because its poison was located that I've been lowering my expectations of it time and time again. It's still very fun, but well...

[sharp violet]

The one game I was in a Lleech script I got hosted as an Alchemist Poisoner and I failed to poison the traveller

[fast anchor]

please tell me there was a Heretic to save you

[sour harness]

This is part of why I think it would just be better if all travelers couldn't be droisoned

[minor pier]

And similarly, I don't think VM is that weak. It's almost silent with the correct Minions (the outsider count is a hard tell to find), and it can lead to devastating game states (dead Psycho, DA, or even just PH/Cere on its home script)

[sharp violet]

I was the host, and the ST changed the Amnesiac ability mid-game to prevent me from dying after I figured it out day 1...

[fast anchor]

wait, so the ST gave you alch-poisoner and you weren't playing outed evil

[sharp violet]

That same ST then decided to starpass to a Recluse when there were living Minions in a beginner TB game

[fast anchor]

bruh

[sour harness]

WHY

[minor pier]

Doesn't sound like fun STing

[sharp violet]

Ye I stopped playing in their lobbies after that

I do think Vigor and No Dashii are better outside of their home script

[fast anchor]

I've had to take ND off a ton of scripts because the potential to just have no (or very few) sober Townsfolk is terrifying

ND + Baron is terrifying on a lot of scripts

because in a 12p game you just have 3 sober Townsfolk

[sharp violet]

I've never seen someone run that combo lol

[fast anchor]

You'd be surprised

they've even run it on stream games before

[minor pier]

Well, if you always put Baron + Poisoner + Drunk + Puzzlemaster with ND, no wonder you feel like it's broken xD

Jokes aside, it's a difficult Demon to build around for that reason - too little, and it's outed (hence my ranking), too much and it's broken.

[fast anchor]

agreed you need a good script for it

and it needs good STing such that the poison actually helps the evil team

[sharp violet]

I thought No Dashii was pretty nice on Dusk in the House of the Damned

It is the weakest Demon tho there now that I think of it

[fast anchor]

isn't Legion also on that script

[sharp violet]

Ye

[fast anchor]

and ND is still weaker?

[sharp violet]

I'd say so

Legion does have its problems on that script tho

Mainly because of Fearmonger, and I always play it at 15p

[minor pier]

Legion is so hard to evaluate though, because it's even more script dependent. It's still not that strong, but it can really do some work, both in play and out of play.

[fast anchor]

It entirely depends on the script, agreed

I usually don't see most Legion games get to the end with people still thinking it's non-Legion though

[minor pier]

Outside of the Legion blunder that outs it, I'd be curious to see stats on that

[sharp violet]

I feel like Legion is stronger in the games I've played cause most people there don't have vanilla social deduction experience

This is something that also annoyed me about playing TB lol

[sharp violet]

From what I've seen it's like 25-30% of games-ish?

But the reality is kinda a spectrum and not just solved/unsolved

[sour harness]

Yes and I've seen plenty of scripts where it simply doesn't work. Anything resembling a loud townsfolk is pretty much out of the question because now the poison hurts evil (nwm, banshee, farmer, most of bmr, etc)

Yes axo engineer as well

[fast anchor]

banshee can work with assassin/pukka/gf/etc on the script too

[sour harness]

True

[fast anchor]

but agreed it's not the best

[flat lintel]

cough Fibbin

[minor pier]

Not the first time I heard this, and I agree on the fix, but counterpoint : Riot already needs Sentinel to work ; if a character basically requires two different Fabled to work, no matter the script, maybe the problem lies with the character and a slight rework/buff is in order ^^

[flat lintel]

I’d warrant that Lleech tends to be overpowered a lot because of the situations it’s put in. The Lleech 50/50s are bad, but they’re almost ALWAYS a 50/50 and not a 60/40 or something. It normally comes down to socials. Also if the Lleech changes at any point in the game, than it’s pretty much won the game which is arguably pretty strong.

[flat lintel]

Dashii is only weak on SNV because SNV. Other scripts who run Dashii can find it to be a powerhouse.

[flat lintel]

I personally don’t think this makes Riot the weakest, however.

Also Legion is so fun to ST, but so bad to play together as. If one player just slightly messes up, than it’s outed and a lot of Legion scripts have things to make it non-Legion but all those roles than become Legion. It’s super easy to solve who died as Legion as good. Though, I guess whatever.

[minor pier]

So, if not Riot (although I would argue needing two Fabled to make it strong enough is already cheating, like giving Sentinel + Fibbin to any other Demon would be), which one would be the weakest in your opinion then ? x)

[flat lintel]

I can see a case for Legion, Yagga too.

Yagga kills with a trace, and on some scripts, it’s basically demon kill ability + leave a trace.

[minor pier]

If Yagga wasn't infinitely flexible, I'd have put it in the honorable mentions yes. Hubris is its big downfall.

[flat lintel]

I mean you can say the phrase 5 times, but the st can just choose to kill once

[sour harness]

Well they shouldn't unless it's like f4

[minor pier]

There's a reason the how to run is longer than other characters entire wiki pages ^^' But outside of very niche situations (like 7 alive, Demon is trying to win on the spot, or abusing the fact they already were nommed and voted on), the situation you describe looks like the ST denying the player agency by not trying to kill at least 2-3 people. That's not the character's fault, it's the ST's ^^'

[sly crescent]

i kinda don't accept that argument as the basis of being weakest, considering that if Po is "found" the same way they just die and lose

the possibility of choosing a character/player that actively wants to die as host is what makes it very swingy

[shrewd cloud]

That is understandable (and agree with that specifically) though I think Lleech is still one of the weaker Demons. A big part of it’s script building though as common script building choices I see do make Lleech weaker (like if you slap Fools and Sailors and stuff on the script)

I think my two biggest problems with Lleech is that an “All evil” win is off the table as the host (who is probably good) needs to survive until the very end. And since most Lleech scripts are just sort of flawed it’s an unfortunately common issue where some scripts have awful Lleech hosts (either they wanna die like you mentioned or it’s too easy to tell that they are droisoned) that can make for a quick game

[sly crescent]

yeah minion hosting is rare

i'm definitely not going to do it next time i'm Lleech 😉

anyway weakest is gonna for sure be one of the experimentals (which one will probably depend on player group dynamic and their metas) or Vortox, don't even consider other base demons i think

[fast anchor]

not pukka?

that came up a lot last time a question like this was raised

[foggy grotto]

pukka is weaker than vortox imo although they are rarely in the same script so it’s hard to compare them

[fast anchor]

me pulling up with uncertainty principle (quantum is totally relevant in this discussion right)

[flat lintel]

vortox just has the extra win clause

like that alone, the possibility of winning like that (even if it's unlikely) just buffs it up over other demons

[dense hound]

I feel like vortox win clause would be much more scary if you couldnt nom dead bodies

[foggy grotto]

i think it’s mostly just there so people can’t hard vortox check with TC or FG

except they usually can anyway

[sour harness]

There's a good amount of stuff on snv that works better with a dead player (barber shenanigans for example), it stops the game from feeling stagnant on d1, plus it means TC is more likely to get info that isn't super polarizing and FG usually gets suboptimal info

[next marlin]

Vigor is absolutely insane with minions that scale scarily in the late game (cere, DA, OG if you're super mean), and opens extremely complex and dangerous bluffspace to an even greater degree than "demons that can afford to die" (vigor-killed minion is one of the ~only ways non-vortoxed dreamer is bluffable on SnV)
It is a very cool demon that's kneecapped by an outsider mod addition that's crippling on its home script outside of base 0, and on customs tends to result in awkward Vigor/Godfather/Balloonist bags
I understand the arguments for it, but a game in which you are bluffing Klutz is a game in which you are not bluffing Dreamer

[sly crescent]

imo Vortox win condition is nigh impossible if good team plays well (unless very low player count with +evils etc etc, i'm not counting that assuming around 12p) and the info effect has a tendency to be figured out and remove any ambiguity to the info (think vortoxed Village Idiot) so it is in a vacuum pretty bad.

Pukka's biggest problem is they might poison whoever gets executed next day so slower to kill? it's probably gonna happen once per game but i don't get why it's a candidate

[dense hound]

pukka also cant trigger on death outsiders which isnt a problem in home script but can be outside of it

[sly crescent]

right, but inability to fall into RK/Sage/Farmer (/Fool) traps is kinda balancing out Klutz/Barber things for me

[dense hound]

and plague doctor/hatter/sweetheart/moonchild (although moonchild could be useful for framing someone)

[flat lintel]

but good doesn’t always play perfectly? sometimes there’s too many noms and oops! we’re at a vortox check.

[flat lintel]

wait doesnt it sober up by the time the moonchild kills?

[dense hound]

Oh right

so klutz is also fine

[flat lintel]

I mean like it chooses someone at the crack of dawn, no longer poisoned?

Next night boom player dies bc the moonchild is sober now

[flat lintel]

I hope botc finds a way to fix this!

I agree with ymh that Pukka isn’t as bad, much like all the other Demons, if you don’t pair/do pair them with the (in)correct characters

So in a certain way, all Demons are bad and good??

[sly crescent]

oh ye i messed that up with Klutz

[sly crescent]

definitely, and most of them well-balanced like Vortox might steer info away from themselves or situationally make it stronger, Pukka might swiftly deal with Fool and Sailor or be slower than 1 kill per night with no abilities involved

so i support the experimental pitches for weakest just not necessarily the Lleech, it swingy but so is Vortox - in other ways

[lucid crag]

ojo can be weak on some setups but good on others

I do think it's weak compared to Imp though

Legion I'd argue is a weak demon but it fully depends on what ST gives good sometimes

Only time I've seen riot it won

[dense moat]

8/6: The Magical Djinn shows up and grants 3 wishes to a BOTC character of your choice. What do they wish for?

[vale oxide]

World domination and bweakfast

And a new hat, maybe

[fierce reef]

nightwatchman wants 1. a brighter light 2. some snacks and 3. weekends off

[foggy grotto]

Infinite wishes

[sour harness]

Goblin would wish for infinite wishes and get told they can't, cerenovus would actually find the loophole

"I wish for the ability to change the rules surrounding wishes"
"I wish to be able to wish for infinite wishes"
"I wish for infinite wishes"

wishes to get over their fear of heights already

[lucid crag]

wishes for everyone to vote yes on everything always, for no limit on nominations, and for no limit on executions possible in a day

[flat lintel]

• to actually work in bmr 💀
• to have a reminder token for it's "minions" (reminder: "Minions")
• to show the demon character to the actual demon + spy core (reminder: "is the Lunatic")

[sharp violet]

Time with his family
For to be more accepted by the community (thus no more misregistration)
A simple case for once

[sharp violet]

That seems more like to me (then they vote no on themselves and the Demon)

[sly crescent]

i'd combine 1&2 into one wish two, but start with i wish one to be immortal in case the djinn is not gonna be happy about the other 2

occurs to me even then Djinn can use the agent Smith loophole - what good is being able to ask for infinite wishes if you are unable to speak

[lucid crag]

Nah cause with infinite exes everyone is exed including demon, so good wins

[sharp violet]

The plan is if the Demon is on the block then the Vizier nominates someone else, everyone votes for it as per the wish, and the Vizier pushes it through, thereby taking the Demon off the block (the day continues as per the wish)

Imagine how it would work if there were no wishes and a Butcher was in play instead

[fast anchor]

7/8: Even if we've done this one, it's a good reprise: what's your favorite custom script?

A list of the customs mentioned:

• Monsters in the Closet
• [Pearly Gates](#1157796073528623238 message)
• Lunar Eclipse
• Catfishing
• [Clockwork Cyborg](#1104980997470171177 message)
• To Dream An Ever-Changing Dream (Dreamcatcher)
• Extension Cord
• Word Around Town

[sour harness]

Idt I've played any particular custom script more than 3 times

3 might be pushing it actually

[indigo osprey]

Monsters in the Closet which is my own and the favorite custom script of my group #Advertisement

[sharp violet]

dusk in the house of the damned

[fast anchor]

i took a look at it, do you run it with a sentinel? not having positive outsider mod seems like it'd feel bad

[indigo osprey]

I used to run it with sentinel, but experience has shown that vigor and drunk is sufficient. Nowaday, I only run it with sentinel when there is base 0 outsiders. (There is a Pixie and an atheist version, btw.)

When I do use sentinel, I use sentinel mainly as a balancing tool. So depending on the strength of the set up, an outsider is added or not.

I think my group has run the script...close to 40 times, easy.

[fast anchor]

ah, so it's kinda like how Extension Cord uses its Sentinel

or (good segue) [Pearly Gates](#1157796073528623238 message), which requires a good ST but has led to some really fun games both as an ST and player

[indigo osprey]

Yeah, MitC is a script where you need very careful balancing by a competent ST because it can turn ugly real fast.

Pearly Gates looks like a great script! Thanks for calling attention to it!

[digital drum]

Gave +1 Thanks to @fast anchor (current: #2 - 1179)

[fast anchor]

it mainly gets run in text (since hannah, the script creator, is primarily a textplayer) but i've had the opportunity to either put it on live polls or run it myself live and it's usually a blast

it's one of those scripts where vortox worlds last until final day and the demon type is super hard to pin down, which is always neat

[indigo osprey]

Balloonist + vortox is spicy

[fast anchor]

it's a very fun interaction

[indigo osprey]

it looks like a script where you want to have the bootlegger rule that vortox + poison = arbitary info

[fast anchor]

never seen it run that way, and it doesn't seem too fun tbh?

even with PM+Vortox being a little jank there's still plenty for PM to do

and recluse/spy can cause arbitrary info in a vortox game depending on how you run it

anyway my actual favorite script: Lunar Eclipse is crazy hard to run as an ST but I've never had a bad game of it

you DO have to bootleg barber/zombuul so you don't get a zombuul having 3 lives, but it's probably one of the best lycan scripts out there

[sharp violet]

This gets run by an ST in pub lobbies a lot

It seems pretty fine but the first few games we tried of it were super unlucky

One of the games was this:

It was Spy, Assassin, D.A

The Assassin bluffed Tea Lady and wanted to test on their Demon, but instead the D.A got randomly executed

The whole town wanted to kill the Demon to test the Tea Lady the next day, so the Assassin kills the Barber, but the Innkeeper just so happened to pick the Assassin AND the Barber so the barber was drunk and evil lost