secret thing

[sweet birch]

I don't think there

's anything I outright reuse to play with, but a few roles give me pause

Mezepheles is a big one

[obtuse shell]

a little late to the part here but
I would refuse to play BMR with Lleech and Goblin replacing Zombuul and Mastermind

[sage atlas]

1/24 - What character would you use to describe yourself?

[vale oxide]

I mean...

[fast anchor]

orthodontist, because i don't exist ✨ oooooooo

[sweet birch]

To give the funny answer or not...

[tacit fiber]

I don't like

but at the same time

Ill literally play any script

[cursive cobalt]

Describe myself how

With the mechanics or the theming or what

[tacit fiber]

oh wrong question hm

[sharp violet]

[cursive cobalt]

Interesting... what about these characters makes you resonate with them?

[sharp violet]

I like singing and I’ve been in choirs before
I like and am very good at math
I don’t like violence
I like and am getting good at puzzles
I’d like to think of myself as generally a good person

[rose vault]

That sounds like something the demon would say.

Any outsider role where the outsider either has very little or no agency. Acrobat, tinker, recluse are the main ones, along with most of the "when you die [bad thing]" roles. At least the Puzzlemaster has their own sidequest.

[sage atlas]

[severe raven]

Not just because of the name, but also because I seem to be quite sensitive to things going wrong in society.

[sweet birch]

Serious answers

[plain torrent]

[fast anchor]

surely you're goon/cultleader the way your name changed color overnight (grats minion! 🎉)

[fast anchor]

but serious answer

[sweet birch]

Thank you!

[digital drum]

Gave +1 Thanks to @fast anchor (current: #30 - 436)

[pseudo coral]

maybe?

[lean kestrel]

? probably ?

[cloud plover]

[fast anchor]

this you?

[cursive cobalt]

1/25: What’s your craziest BOTC headcanon?

[fast anchor]

Lil’ Monsta’s parent is the No Dashii

[dense moat]

The reasons Lil Monsta and Legion can kill the Goon

Lil Monsta: Even the Goon won’t beat up a child right away. Giving Lil Monsta time to break his neck

Legion: Literaly every Legion in town gets up and beats up the Goon 8 v 1 (naturally half the Legions have to crawl back to their homes)

[sharp violet]

The Top 4 from TB are siblings

[exotic bone]

not a very serious headcanon but in my group we like to joke that we're stuck in a time loop where every iteration the storyteller dies right at the start (which explains why the same person is just dying over and over again)

[hot orchid]

Seamstress and Sweetheart are the two survivors of TB who are now out of their depth

[sharp violet]

They used to be Washerwoman and Saint

[vale oxide]

26/1: New character! Whatcha think?

[tacit fiber]

european lmao

[cloud plover]

OH LMAO

I didn't realize Idiot was a real char 😅

The token looked... homebrewed, for lack of a better word

[cursive cobalt]

Don’t pit them against Twister Man

[cloud plover]

Things that affect setup are interesting! That being said, the ability and the flavor don't hit for me. Why are there multiple idiots? And why will at most one idiot be incompetent? Plus, this ability of "finding one player's alignment" strikes me as especially boring. TB, the holy grail of scripts, has three info roles that all sus things out in interesting ways. FT has 2 picks per night AND a RH token, so they have to work around that. Empath has two pings, and must execute good neighbors for new pings sometimes. UT also requires executions, but reads the specific role from the executed. Lots of thinking is present for each of these, and Idiot just... picks one? Seems boring to me

[spiral pollen]

I agree

[fresh shard]

Not generally a fan. Alignment cops are boring and this particular one feels like it will always be the main character of any script it's in. Also purely subjectively not a fan of "a bunch of people are the same character" gimmicks

[dense moat]

As someone who has done this I wholeheartedly agree. Or if you do put them together, at least have the decency to only put 1

I think it’s a silly little dynamic but as I’ve heard it, multiple VI isn’t great with poison

[cloud plover]

Bump on this, especially the second half. Part of what I love about clocktower over Werewolf is that everyone has their own special thing going on! VI takes away from that

[cursive cobalt]

I second this

[fresh shard]

Also makes the bluffing way less interesting if there is no real risk of a double claim

[indigo osprey]

27/01: Do you like running/playing/the concept of Atheist?

[vale oxide]

No.

[cursive cobalt]

Highly depends on the group I'm STing for/playing in, and if i'm playing, what the ST behind the wheel thinks of it.
On average, I wouldn't say its very great. But that doesnt mean it can't be decent

[fresh shard]

Never been in an Atheist game, but it seems like something that's much more fun to make jokes about in other games or spectate people's than to actually play. Much like the Village Idiot earlier, putting it on the script instantly makes it the main character of that script, and has the same problem of "completely eliminates any strategy in bluffs by being the strictly correct choice". An actual atheist game would be entertaining to do once, but as more of a BOTC-style visual novel than a conventional game. From an ST perspective, it's much more of a "traditional DM role" than running most other games is, which is an experience I like but not what I'd want to be playing BOTC for.

I heard there were plans to put the Atheist in Garden of Sin, but I'm hoping they change their minds, because it doesn't seem like a good fit.

[severe raven]

I think it's fine. It definitely works for very social players, and for more mechanical players there are ways to make the information not line up. I'm not sure why the evil team really needs to bluff Atheist in every single game.

[sage atlas]

i feel like it requires a very experienced/somewhat experienced storyteller to work well. not too bad of a storyteller that its obviously an athiest game and not a storyteller who makes the game indistinguishable from a normal one

there should be some weirdness in the game that makes it questionable

[cursive cobalt]

This seems very consistent with your Village Idiot critique

I respect a fellow "bluffs should take effort" advocate

[flat lintel]

Nah. I hate that role.

[sweet birch]

So do you regret something?

[flat lintel]

I regret NOTHING!

[sweet birch]

Anyways I would argue bluffing Atheist is not strictly optimal in the same way bluffing VI is

If you're bluffing atheist and a fellow evil ends up socially outed, you're toast

If you're bluffing VI it's only really a problem if there are already 3? And honestly idk how many STs are gonna actually make a bag with 3 VIs, on its surface it seems strong

[spiral pollen]

I changed my mind

it's probably ok with vortox

but you have to be careful about the drunk info you give in non-vortox

and if there's 3 it'll be quite obvious I think

if two VIs get contradictory info on 1 player it disproves vortox if both are good

[tacit fiber]

love it

[cursive cobalt]

1/28: what’s a Clocktower opinion that you used to have that you no longer agree with?

[hot orchid]

Avoid Drunk with Sentinel and Kazali

I think it doesn't necessarily just make games harder to solve

[vale oxide]

BMR is the best base 3 script

I've ranked them BMR, TB, SnV in the past, but now I think it's SnV, BMR, TB personally

[flat lintel]

SNV??? No. We’re rivals now

[sweet birch]

I used to think Poisoner was cool and based and I would include it in the bag every time it was on-script

[fast anchor]

That S&V is the best base script

After playing a lot more live & inperson games my ranking now goes TB, BMR, (LuF), S&V

[shrewd cloud]

Used to be a really big fan of Legion + Atheist for a long time until someone brought up how one good player misvoting in a Legion game can lead to an insta loss. Which I agree is bs

Already don’t like how punishing Legion can be but with Atheist on the script, executing the ST is a punishment that can be especially annoying

[flat lintel]

I would say we’re now rivals, but we’ve been rivals.

[vale oxide]

I'm not sure if I like SnV the most tbh, it depends on how I'm feeling. Solving info heavy scripts has definitely grown on me a lot though

[cursive cobalt]

We all had a Poisoner phase

[sage atlas]

I used to think giving the lunatic evil players as minions was a good idea

[fast anchor]

I feel like we’ve all done that

We all want to fool lunatics

[flat lintel]

Hot take: Lunatic has barely any place on BMR or any base script

[tall raft]

In person it does

But here, yes

[signal holly]

hot take: Lunatic on BMR is totally fine

[hot orchid]

it plays very well with Pukka imo

and Po

it's only a concern when the real demon is Zombuul or the Lunatic is Shabaloth

(and the other isn't)

[obtuse shell]

I love Lunatic Zombuul's

if town is killing during the day then the Illusion is typically broken much later than with any other demon

[hot orchid]

my only concern is if the real demon is Zombuul while the Lunatic isn't

[obtuse shell]

that problem seems easily avoidable

[hot orchid]

mhm

I think overall Lunatic is a good fit for that script

it also seems better than any of the other base scripts

[obtuse shell]

agreed

[hot orchid]

it might work on GoS actually, you just need to match the demon and Lunatic

[heady cradle]

That Zombuul is fun or well-designed

[obtuse shell]

in fact, it is both

[severe raven]

IMO, solo Zombuul in a Teensyville is interesting, as long as the players understand that Zombuul probably doesn't have a lot of direct agency.

[heady cradle]

Ah yes
I love to play BotC, watching no deaths™️ happen for like 3 nights and dramatically extend the game

And then extending the game further by attempting to execute all the dead people too

It drags, which I feel doesn't jive with the pace of a good BotC game

Things should be happening, changing, worlds appearing and dying with devastating speed

[tall raft]

Bring back double kill zombuul

[obtuse shell]

ah yes
I love people who assume that a game that has the Zombuul character in it cannot be fun because it "always takes forever"

[heady cradle]

(Which is not to say that fast, but fast enough for you to formulate possibilities and see them dashed)

I mean, like

I don't mean to draw a rule here — I understand there are situations where it could be fun, and I also love long games meself

[severe raven]

You can always shorten days if the kill rate is too slow.

[heady cradle]

But with the size that BotC tends to play at, Zombuul games take longer than is preferred

[obtuse shell]

it is the ST's job to keep the game moving

[heady cradle]

Unironically a good solution

[obtuse shell]

and most of the issues people will not stop bringing up with Zombuul come from a tiny fraction of games with poor storytelling

[heady cradle]

Put that and Shab on the script alongside a single-kill demon and Assassin/Godfather

And you have yourself an interesting script

[fast anchor]

idk, I personally love Zombuul and its place on scripts like BMR and Lunar Eclipse

it's a quirky demon but I find it very fun

[cursive cobalt]

Zombuul is uh

Ummmm

It’s like the Hunger mechanic

In sandbox games

Is it very interesting? Not really. Is it fun to play against? No. Is it fun to deal with and mitigate? Very much not so

But does it add a new layer to the game its in that fleshes out the experience? And does it allow for other mechanics in the game to be more engaging? Yes and yes

[cursive cobalt]

Honestly
You can replace Zombuul with any BMR role, and a third of the time this statement will still be true

[fast anchor]

Zombuul occupies the same space as Marionette in my head - a character which shapes the game even when it's not in play

[cursive cobalt]

Zombuul and Vortox are very similar in what they do for their respective scripts

[sweet birch]

I love framing zombuul worlds 😍

[cursive cobalt]

And while I’m not fond of either

[sweet birch]

Even more when it's not at all on purpose

[cursive cobalt]

I do concede that they’re nice additions to their home scripts

Overall, I think they should be put in play less than other demons on average

Because the games where they do exist slog in their own respective ways

But their presence on a script helps evil sell worlds they otherwise wouldn’t be able to

Oh and they’re also both really weak

Zombuul completely crumples in the face of any good team that manages to take advantage of BMR’s high confirmation potential

Vortox suffers immensely from making worldbuilding very easy once it’s outed (and being the easiest demon on its respective script to solve for)

[flat lintel]

Explain

[signal holly]

the question is "what is Lunatic supposed to do?"

people look at the text of Lunatic and assume that Lunatic is supposed to think they're the demon and be playing sort of for evil as a +1 evil and hurt the good team that way

but at least on BMR that's not the case; scripts are pretty intentional about having a max of 1 additional "evil" player and that's what Goon is for

Lunatic is minion cover
"oh i know i did some shady stuff early on d1 but i promise it's not because i was a minion who didn't have a bluff, it's because i thought i was the Demon. don't execute me this early, we should avoid letting the Godfather get a free kill, you can kill me later if you're suspicious of me" is a great minion bluff

is lunatic on BMR basically just an otherwise blank Outsider with the text "you lie to other players for part of the first and maybe second day?" yes.

but that's fine
most BMR outsiders have the potential to be easily neutralized; Goons can often confirm themselves and/or be a better Fool, and "moonchild is a townsfolk" is a meme for a reason

the thing that makes BMR outsiders so damaging is the existence of Godfather

[spiral pollen]

double kill zombuul is OP

[cursive cobalt]

Tinker:

[signal holly]

i mean there are a ton of games where the tinker doesn't die
it's harder for them to actively neutralize their ability but i'd include it, i just left it off the list because it's debatable in a different kind of way

[cursive cobalt]

I think Tinker is the only BMR outsider that actually feels like a real Outsider

That might be a hot take here

But the way its designed is reminiscent of how outsiders are traditionally designed

"Villager, but has a downside that's situationally makes things worse for town that they also can't control the activation of"

Meanwhile, for other BMR outsiders we have

• Ravenkeeper with a knife
• Something more akin to a neutral-aligned role than a legitimate hindrance for good
• Lies to maybe one or two people and then becomes a villager known by demon

[signal holly]

for a certain definition of feel i'd agree

though i don't think it stops any of the others from serving functionally if not in design feel as outsiders

[cursive cobalt]

Yeah

Functionally, I think all of them are outsider-ey for the most part

[signal holly]

that said they're also not unique, there are experimental outsiders that have similar feels:
Goon <-> Politician
Moonchild <-> Golem
Lunatic <-> Snitch

and i think there's something to be said for those being some of the most contentious outsiders for a similar reason

[cursive cobalt]

For the most part, experimental outsiders all stray pretty far from the "traditional" outsider design

You have things like Damsel

Heretic

Politician

[spiral pollen]

Goon can be a pain in the ass for evil for sure

[cursive cobalt]

Golem, as you mentioned

[signal holly]

Hatter and Plague Doctor are pretty typical

[spiral pollen]

When the goon eats all 3 po kills

[cursive cobalt]

Acrobat

[signal holly]

and Acrobat is just actually a townsfolk

[cursive cobalt]

Acrobat is a weak townsfolk

In practice

Not really an outsider at all

[signal holly]

it's highly script dependent for sure
and it's a Huntsman-tier townsfolk
but it's usually a townsfolk

[spiral pollen]

bruh

[past kayak]

Ok fr I haven't seen a Po get a successful triple kill in over a year

something always happens to block them

[tacit fiber]

its almost like BMR is meant to do that

[dense moat]

1/31: What are your favorite and least favorite Travelers? Why?

[heady cradle]

I love Scapegoat as an ST

It's a perfect Traveller because normally, they're people who have to leave early

So it lets me take them out of the game and balance it towards whichever side is losing

[sweet birch]

Barista is my favorite because you have an impact on the game but also you kinda just get to vibe

Bishop is my least favorite

Because it actively removes town agency

[cursive cobalt]

Barista/Bone Collector would be my favorite, I'm a sucker for good enablers

Gunslinger is my least favorite

Matron and Gangster are close runners up for last place though

I hate travelers who can kill

Because either they give good a massive boon just by existing and eliminating demon candidates

Or they refuse to do so and then get exiled for being evil

[sweet birch]

Yeah matron is a close second for me as well

[cursive cobalt]

Matron is just antifun

Imo

[copper quail]

Least favorite: Apprentice by faaar
Saw too many times where Apprentice just ruined the game
Apprentice BH, Apprentice professor with already a professor or Apprentice PH when town executed the PH the previous day

Favorite: I like Harlot's dynamic and Bone collector as well

[sweet birch]

Ok genuinely that Apprentice stuff comes down to having a bad ST

[minor pier]

I don't like Apprentice, just because it goes opposite to how travelers work (and breaks numbers balancing while doing so).
Big fan of Butcher and Bone Collector tho.

[fast anchor]

to play as:

love beggar, scapegoat, and barista as good and evil. low-pressure but still super useful to town

hate butcher, apprentice, bone collector. they're often a ton of pressure and less conducive to vibing

to ST:

love scapegoat, harlot, and bone collector: they feel powerful for the team with them while maintaining an unclear alignment. there's a ton of depth to putting them in a game.

hate apprentice, gunslinger and gangster; they can be super swingy depending on alignment

[copper quail]

Agreed but just adding a minion ability in a 8p/10p game sounds crazy sometimes depending on the script
And imo the biggest issue of the Apprentice is that a traveler is not a player so why giving them a full player's ability that is supposed to stay the whole game?
And especially in BMR I find Apprentice gambler, chambermaid, grandmother, minstrel super strong but like sailor/fool totally pointless and that most of the minions abilities are super strong to get

[spiral pollen]

the way apprentice sailor and fool hard confirm themselves is pretty silly

but I do think apprentice works best when they leave after a few days

[fresh shard]

Which Minion abilities would be fine to give to an Apprentice? Off the top of my head, Cerenovus is probably fine (not severely debilitating, immediately announces its presence, no ongoing impact after it's yeeted) but most others are either too strong or pointless

[cursive cobalt]

Bishop allows the town to trade agency for information

And should be run in such a way that the Bishop themselves gets influence over who the ST nominates

It’s fine imo

As long as the ST isn’t a dick

The key to making any ST controlled ability fun is giving the player themselves a way to influence it

[sharp violet]

I like Voudon, but definitely think it should be used for players that arrive late so it isn't controlling votes by itself in the beginning

[hot orchid]

I'm a fan of Bishop because it's funny and Matron because it interacts well with main game roles (Lunatic and Empath, for instance)

Not a fan of Gunslinger, especially when they're leaving early, because I often see players killing without much rhyme or reason with it

Now, Gangster requires a player who's invested in the game to also make the call which I like

[tall raft]

I love begger, harlot, and voudon

[tacit fiber]

[tall raft]

All your favorite, I assume

[tacit fiber]

yes

[tacit fiber]

Voudon chooses kills d1 (very fun), Apprentice is very good design-wide, Matron I love lore wise and I love Bishop mecanicallty

[cursive cobalt]

Voudon choosing kills D1 is part of the reason I don't like it

Its basically a D1 Judge

And Judge is one of my least favorite travelers in the entire game

Probably around Matron territory if I had to rank it

[tall raft]

I like it that way

[cursive cobalt]

I suppose its not as cringe as judge

[tall raft]

It's day 1

[cursive cobalt]

where you can slam and leave

good has a chance to exile an evil voudon

[hot orchid]

Judge requires a lot of caution compared to others, I feel

it gets risky with Goblin, Saint, some Vizier jinxes, etc

[cursive cobalt]

Judge is also really good for evil and really bad for good

In terms of its utility

So its usually exiled just out of caution anyway

[sharp violet]

How would you feel if one got added midgame for someone coming late?

[cursive cobalt]

Better

[cursive cobalt]

2/1: You’re playing B4 Fishbucket, and the ST is allowing everyone to choose their roles. What roles would you choose for each character type?

[rose vault]

B4?

What's the 4th script?

[vale oxide]

LuF I think

[fresh shard]

I think b4 just means "includes experimental", though it's a counterintuitive way of putting it

[vale oxide]

Ohh

[cursive cobalt]

B4 means all characters in botc

It’s how my group refers to it

The 4th “script” includes all experimentals

[fresh shard]

I'd choose:

Townsfolk: Artist or Amnesiac
Outsider: Puzzlemaster or "relinquish choice" so the ST has the option of making me Lunatic or Drunk without giving the game away
Minion: Cerenovus or Pit-Hag
Demon: Vortox or Vigor Mortis

(It's probably not hard to guess what mine and my group's favourite script is)

[vale oxide]

Gossip, Amne, Savant
Poli, Damsel, Heretic
Pit Hag, Baron, Poisoner
Shab, Alhad, Po

[cursive cobalt]

This prompt was inspired by a gamemode my group actually does called Devil’s Choice

[vale oxide]

If we're meant to put 3

[cursive cobalt]

Each player submits 2-3 characters that they wish to be for each type, and the ST assigns them one of them on game start

It’s usually run with B4 fishbucket with some bans

[rose vault]

That's technically what my group does, except we have a script and it's opt-in.

Anyways...

[fresh shard]

My third options would probably be Gossip, Plague Doctor, Vizier and Ojo (Kazali feels like it defeats the objective)

[indigo osprey]

Townsfolk: If I trust the ST: Amnesiac
If I don't: Dreamer

Outsider: Politician/Heretic

Minion: Spy

Demon: Leviathan

[fresh shard]

Vizier is reasonably substitutable for any other role that lets me do the mwa ha ha act on day 1

[cursive cobalt]

Kazaki would be a banned role

Most character changing roles are banned in my group

[rose vault]

And Pit Hag?

[cursive cobalt]

I know Engi and PH are

I don’t have the list on me atm

[rose vault]

Hatter?

[cursive cobalt]

We haven’t had time to do a game of this since the character releases started

[fresh shard]

Probably cut Pit Hag for DA then

[cursive cobalt]

I mean this is a hypothetical

So its not like any of these actually apply

[fresh shard]

Nah it is interesting to think about how my choices would change when it is "what do I enjoy playing most" vs "what do I think would be most fun in an environment where everyone else is making the same choice"

Realistically I'd probably Pit Hag myself night 1 into an evil Townsfolk though

[cursive cobalt]

Which evil townsfolk?

There’s a couple good ones

[fresh shard]

Amnesiac, Dreamer, Savant

Oh Gossip sounds fun as evil

If I were running this I would allow Pit Hag but with a house rule that you can only target yourself, or another evil team member with their permission

[cursive cobalt]

Isn’t evil Dreamer just bad Spy

[fresh shard]

Right, yeah, Spy exists

Actually PH into a day 2 Widow would be entertaining mostly because people would either immediately figure it out or be utterly confused

Come to think of it, Artist is also pretty much strictly worse Spy

[indigo osprey]

Artist Question: 'Is Tom lying to me when he says he trusts me?'

[dense moat]

Townsfolk: Dreamer, Virgin, or Nightwatchman (so I don’t have to do much)

Outsider: Mutant (just make up a bunch of bullshit)

Minion: Maybe Widow or Mez (so I can know what’s going on or draft someone more competent)

Demon: Literaly any Demon that moves (Imp, Fang Gu, Lil Monsta). I am not going to Final 3 without the option to make someone better the Demon

[sage atlas]

philo, alch, or cult leader (either i can get a minion ability or i can turn evil)
lunatic or goon (tee hee)
psycho or goblin (i love outed evil)
fang gu (why not)

[sharp violet]

Townsfolk: High Priestess
Outsider: Butler
Minion: Scarlet Woman
Demon: Riot (if allowed), Imp (if not)

[cursive cobalt]

If I’m remembering the rules correctly

Any character that forces a certain other character to be in play is outlawed

Wait no that was back when it was still “everyone submits 1”

You can submit stuff like Choirboy and Huntsman

You just won’t be able to get it unless someone else chooses King or Damsel

Choosing LM can only be done as the demon, and turns you into a minion in the process

[tall raft]

Nearly every good info role is a strictly worse spy

[dense moat]

Neraly every Spy is a strictly better good info role

[sage atlas]

Why don't they just make a good role that sees the grim, it would make the game easier for new people 🤦‍♂️

In fact, why don't they just remove evil people so that everyone wins

[fresh shard]

The world's most incompetent Pit Hag is ready to grant your wish

[cursive cobalt]

Ok, but can a Spy ask the ST “Do you want us to thank you for picking up the tab for us later tonight?”

[digital drum]

Gave +1 Thanks to @fresh shard (current: #1722 - 1)

[fresh shard]

One day I will achieve Annoying my ST Nirvana by Pit Hagging someone into the Spy when they're poisoned, forcing the ST to come up with a fake grim on the spot

[lean kestrel]

...

[fast anchor]

i've had the Demon swap the Widow and (puzzledrunk) gossip to force me to make a puzzledrunk good widow grim

and then the cannibal claim ate the widow - ofc, they were evil so I didn't have to do anything, but we had 3 widowgrims that game and evil still won

#1176448166040715336 was a game of all time

[dense moat]

Just gives the true grim anyways

[fresh shard]

I wouldn't even be mad tbh

[dense moat]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes

[severe raven]

Townsfolk: Amnesiac of course
Outsider: Butler (it's the least damaging)
Minion: Widow of course
Demon: Pukka

[sweet birch]

Townsfolk: Savant
Outsider: Drunk Savant
Minion: Pit-hag, so I can make myself the savant
Demon: Doesn't matter because I plan on barber swapping myself with the pit-hag and becoming the savant (fang gu, I guess)

[fast anchor]

TF: Dreamer / Undertaker / High Priestess
Outsider: Puzzlemaster
Minion: Baron
Demon: Imp

[tacit fiber]

TF:
Outsider:
Minion:
Demon:

[hot orchid]

[shrewd cloud]

TF:
Outsiders:
Minion:
Demon:

[heady cradle]

TF: (if King)
Outsiders:
Minions:
Demon:

[tacit fiber]

b4 Fishbucket means no iirc'

[heady cradle]

Wait, really

Oh

I have no idea what Fishbucket meant 😅

[tacit fiber]

Fishbucket isn't the issue there lol

its that its b4

[heady cradle]

What's B4?

[hot orchid]

I think this model counts the fourth script as all experimentals, not LuF

[copper quail]

Townsfolk: Savant
Outsider: Moonchild/Politician
Minion: Devil's Advocate
Demon: Imp/Fang gu (a demon that can starpass 🙈)

[lucid crag]

[tacit fiber]

Oh

[cursive cobalt]

2/2: If you could add one homebrew character to BOTC as an official character, what would it be?

patiently awaits @sudden quarry’s 4 page essay

[fast anchor]

Ici's Grandmaster is really cool and fits in a lot of places

Grandmaster (Townsfolk): Once per game, during the day, visit the Storyteller to learn your most important ally, but not why they’re important.

Her Occultist is also really neat: Occultist (Outsider): "You might be executed unless you are “mad” about having learned something new every day. Once per game, at night, you learn something."

[flat lintel]

Any #daybyday character :p

[spiral pollen]

something like scholar from FoR

outsider removal vibes

[sudden quarry]

oh no that one's easy;

Wight (Minion) - The 1st player you nominated while alive and voted for while dead are poisoned (even when dead).
i keep using this on scripts and it fits the misinformation role on a lot of scripts really well, and works impeccably as a complement to Poisoner and Widow

it's not my personal favorite but it's the one I feel script builders would like to have most

[lucid crag]

**Serial-Killer: **Each night, choose a player: learn on a scale of 1 to 3 how exciting their execution would be. You might register as evil & as a Minion.

(townsfolk)

[obtuse shell]

for the grandmaster, do you really need the "but not why they're important" or is it just extra clarity?

[sudden quarry]

it is just for extra clarity

[cursive cobalt]

2/4: Describe the worst custom script you ever played.

[shrewd cloud]

Pretty much any script where the gimmick is a bunch of extra evils

One in particular was quite miserable as we pinpointed the Demon by d2 but were never able to execute them because of the evil majority dancing around the topic

[sweet birch]

Some old edition of Hide and Seek which had Mez and LM. I was the hard-confirmed librarian so of course I got turned and held the baby final day.

I would also throw fishbucket out there, given a lack of restrictions

There was also also a run of my own custom script in which we had an innkeeper, a philo-innkeeper, and LM (there was also a mez and DA on script, we cut LM after that run)

[indigo osprey]

Mez-Lm is so sad thet it doesn’t work :(

[fresh shard]

I enjoyed b3 fishbucket when I played it, curious what you didn't like about it

[sweet birch]

It was B4 fishbucket

Again we had a mez, except this time they converted an amnesiac that kept gaining the abilities of other TF

At one point the amne got the engineer ability and then made the demon a Lleech that poisoned it

This was after the same amne got the virgin ability and confirmed themselves in front of the whole town

So yeah, key word "lack of restrictions" there

[cursive cobalt]

That’s dumb

[fresh shard]

I don't think I've ever played a bad script as much as a bad introduction of a character in the form of the Puzzlemaster who was their own drunk the first and only time I saw it in play

[spiral pollen]

Calling scripts bad is a bit mean tbh but having said that I played a solo LM script which had a magician on it one time

which is very funny

[vale oxide]

What were they thinking tho? Surely that was done intentionally for some reason?

[spiral pollen]

to this day

no idea

yeah I actually think that was one of the worst clocktower games I ever played

the thing is the script had 14 townsfolk

including magician

which basically meant it had 13

[sweet birch]

Wait how is that not jinx'd???

[indigo osprey]

maybe that was the joke? a normal script has 13 tf?

[spiral pollen]

perhaps

[flat lintel]

That game was great tho

[sweet birch]

Oh it was

I will not deny that interacting being complete bull though

[flat lintel]

Mez + LM is very sad but like I held onto the word for like days so i mean… town coulda executed me

[flat lintel]

yeah ig. u need a demon identifier not dreamer when that happens

[lucid crag]

Oh yeah that was my least fav custom script game

Fishbucket needs lizards to be fair imo

[sweet birch]

I think so long as you nix PH/Engineer/some others it's probably fine?

Also put in SOI

And by "probably fine" I mean "still extremely dependent on the skill level of your ST"

[sage atlas]

2/5- Which minions and demon would you choose for your optimal evil team in a 12 player game?

[sweet birch]

Hag, psycho, al-had

Or alternatively, sub out either minion for DA

[sweet birch]

*sub out psycho

[cursive cobalt]

This gives town a lot of info…

[cursive cobalt]

Depends on what’s on the script

Demon and minion power varies greatly depending on what the possibility space is

[sweet birch]

If they're all dead before they can piece it together though, that's huge

PH is also there for the safety net

[past kayak]

I wonder what script prompted this answer lmao

[fresh shard]

Limiting myself to B3: Fang Gu, Godfather, Baron

I get an almost guaranteed jump, a good chance of more than one extra kill from GF, and town is pretty severely hampered by having potentially only 3 townsfolk. I also get a minion who has essentially no responsibilities beyond sowing chaos and who is fully expendable.

[hot orchid]

Baron has higher WR or whatever

[sweet birch]

I do just genuinel;y think they're the most powerful evils in the game

[hot orchid]

I think either of these setups requires Outsiders that give misinformation

if your Pit-Hag is making a Puzzlemaster or a Drunk then things look pretty different

[fast anchor]

lleech pithag scarlet woman, just to be an annoying-ass bastard

[sweet birch]

Actually wait

DA, psycho, vizier, LM

[past kayak]

oh god

the no-fun-allowed team

[sweet birch]

Better yet, assume the ST has NOT houseruled DA/LM in such a way to keep the demon mortal

[fast anchor]

the houserule is killing all the minions in the night

[severe raven]

DA + Pit-Hag + Shabaloth

[fast anchor]

no mez?

[sweet birch]

OH GOD YOU'RE RIGHT

Sub out Vizier for that, methinks

[frank raft]

zombuul, scarlet woman, godfather

[fast anchor]

ok gary cooper

[lucid crag]

Reminder that good has 5 days to exe both leviathans

And loses if two good players are exed

I call this team the Fundamental FU

[tall raft]

Al-Had, Mez, and Pit-Hag with Assasin and Posioner on the script

[sharp violet]

I love Mastermind and I think Fang Gu is a good pairing with it

[heady cradle]

That is definitely the scariest I can think of

Can evil loose that?

Maybe if the ST's nice with a Gossip and kills someone

Or a Slayer gets lucky

The DA gets drunk

Alchemist could also do stuff

[minor pier]

Heretic is the answer to "this is unwinnable for X". I'm not a fan of the character, nor the dynamics it introduces, but for scripts that seem very evil-sided...

[sage atlas]

evil team too overpowered? just add heretic to your script! what could possibly go wrong?

[minor pier]

Nothing at all. Ignore all heretic jinxes while you're at it too, I'm sure it'll be fine. (I really don't like heretic, it just was the perfect answer to the unwinnable situation described above)

[oak ice]

heretic is a bluff 😈

[fast anchor]

7/2: You're playing a game of Trouble Brewing. You pull a token out of the bag, and it's blue. What are you most hoping for?

[copper quail]

Washerwoman or Empath I think
I like to get starting info on two players and then whispering them to see the way they react 🙈

[shrewd cloud]

Empath for me as well

[fresh shard]

Weirdly enough given how annoyed I was to draw it in my first game, Recluse. Useful both for being able to soft confirm anyone who pings me as evil, knowing anyone else claiming it is bluffing and for outsider count

[cursive cobalt]

Slayer or Investigator

Both are very W roles for me

[sage atlas]

Ravenkeepet

[past kayak]

[fast anchor]

both are so far on the nonexistence scale that I don't like being either of them since I inevitably get tunneled :/

to answer my own question, probably Butler :P

[cursive cobalt]

Is this a common issue? I see Slayer and Invest a lot whenever I view TB games

Maybe that’s just my group

Some STs just want to stick with their drunk Empaths and RKs in Spy games

[fresh shard]

I don't remember the last TB game Slayer wasn't in the bag

[cursive cobalt]

😔

[cursive cobalt]

I have a handful of roles that I happen to roll very frequently

[fast anchor]

a Minion inevitably takes the slayer bluff in my experience

[cursive cobalt]

Slayer is one of them

[fast anchor]

I rarely see real slayers in bags

[cursive cobalt]

So are Noble Seamstress and Philo

[fast anchor]

tbh a lot of TB roles are metad as nonexistent (RK especially but slayer/investigator/saint/mayor too)

[cursive cobalt]

Does TB have a set of roles that’s very often in play?

BMR has Chambermaid and Exorcist

[fresh shard]

Drunk

[fast anchor]

really? I was going to say Sailor and Gossip

[past kayak]

What games are yall playing in where roles are metad as out of play?

[cursive cobalt]

SnV has Mutant… probably something else I’m forgetting

[fast anchor]

CM usually gets left as a bluff for the evil team

[cursive cobalt]

Ok well that ones obvious

Anything else though

[fresh shard]

Artist, Cerenovus

[cursive cobalt]

I don’t see too many Artists

[fast anchor]

live games on the unofficial blood on the clocktower discord server 😔

[shrewd cloud]

I see a lot of Slayers in the games I'm in or observe, but Investigator feels really rare

And like half of the time it's droisoned anyways

[fast anchor]

wrong reply sorry temp!

[fast anchor]

meant as a reply to this

[cursive cobalt]

Cerenovii are crazy common though

That I can agree with

[cursive cobalt]

All good!

[past kayak]

huh

[fast anchor]

the outsider i see most commonly is klutz followed by barber, i don't tend to see a lot of mutant

[past kayak]

In my inperson group base3 is usually run with randomized bags, with small changes to avoid bmr cringe

[cursive cobalt]

Evil bias moment

[fresh shard]

For TB I think Chef

[fast anchor]

and because sweetheart does nothing in a vortox game it's less in-play

[cursive cobalt]

Barber is often in play

STs love Barbers

[shrewd cloud]

There is certainly evil bias though there are also a lot of games where the Investigator gets poisoned sniped n1, so many that I'm like bruh

Had a game like that at Clocktower Con and was quite sad

[cursive cobalt]

The saddest part about evil bias is the cycle it produces

The more you coddle evil and take away threats to them

The less prepared they’ll be able to deal with those threats when they do show up

Which causes them to lose

And perpetuates even more evil bias

With no actual player improvement

Invest I feel as if falls heavily into this category

People always overrate how strong it is

[fresh shard]

I see so many stream games where evil win as last 3 alive which basically never happens in in person play

[cursive cobalt]

But that’s just because no one learns how to deal with it because it’s so rarely a threat

[fresh shard]

Shout out to the game where evil won because the ST gave the amnesiac an ability that reliably protected evils from execution

[cursive cobalt]

That sounds disgusting

[fresh shard]

The ability was basically "target player gets tea lady but only works if the selected player isn't next to two good players", so it was basically somewhat useful if you solve it and game winning for evil if you don't

[exotic bone]

https://youtu.be/cRyyGHfipWM?feature=shared this game wasn't it?

[fresh shard]

Yeah

[sweet birch]

LM is ST determined kills anyway

[cursive cobalt]

So… shitty displaced Alch DA

[sweet birch]

Now, if somehow evil recruits a LYCAN

[cursive cobalt]

Alch DA a good ability to begin with

Giving it to an Amne is even worse

Wow

[sweet birch]

Virgin

[cursive cobalt]

I like Virgin

[sweet birch]

Only role that is 100% confirmed on the confirmation script

[cursive cobalt]

Because I’m one of those players who’s never trusted

Since I’ve masterminded as evil a few too many times

Still

I like Invest and Slayer more because they allow for more skill expression

Which is a big appeal of this game to me

[cursive cobalt]

Let me guess
Ben (or whoever was hosting that game) kept cheering whenever the Amne protected evil

[fresh shard]

The amne got Mez turned after being Grandmother confirmed lmao

[cursive cobalt]

Ok

That’s a stream game if I’ve ever seen one

Meze DA Amne who was basically DA but better

Reminds me why I don’t watch those anymore

[sweet birch]

Adding to my list of reasons Mez is groooooossssss

[cursive cobalt]

Mez is pretty gross in most scripts

It’s not solvable

Realistically

It forces town to consider worldviews with +1 evil

In certain groups it encourages throwing before you even turn

Which is bleh

It’s fun for evil, very sucky to deal with as good

I wish it was designed better

Like, some kind of telegraphing would be nice

[fresh shard]

My usual ST wanted to try a homebrew demon who could OPG Mez turn instead of killing (with no option to decline) and I was like ???

[cursive cobalt]

And this isn’t even taking into consideration the fact that it can turn townsfolk who basically become minions in their own right

[cursive cobalt]

Has anyone actually seen a good-biased ST?

Most of the time all I see is evil-biased ones or good ones

[sweet birch]

Not really

I imagine this is because good is the majority so most STs aren't going to assume they need more help than they do

[past kayak]

Not to mention good team stomps are really boring and STs learn to try and avoid them

[cursive cobalt]

I mean

Evil stomps are also quite boring imo

But that doesn’t stop evilsided STs from forcing them

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[fast anchor]

I think people need to out the Mezepheles more

At least online

in-person I feel like mez feels a little better (at least in my group) due to social dynamics

[fresh shard]

I think good biased is easier to clock as immediately boring because it ends games faster

And the ST advice is usually to extend the game

[heady cradle]

People want to be evil

What can ya say

Maybe you could publicly tell people, “one of these 5 common words in Mez word”

And I think that'd work well over async text play, cause you could search those words

[vale oxide]

Baron (let's say I'm colourblind)

[lucid crag]

Atheist because you know nobody will believe it

[fast anchor]

i'm gonna ask this question tomorrow be patient god

[fast anchor]

you misunderstand the question

[lucid crag]

I understand it, I just didn't answer it

the real answer I'd give is chef

[hot orchid]

My players haven't caught on that I hate putting Monk in the bag yet

[sage atlas]

spy (back at it again with misregistration)

[dense moat]

2/8: To follow Axolator’s theme, you are playing SNV. You are a Demon of your choice. What types of Minions and Bluffs do you want to receive? Which Demon are you?

[spiral pollen]

Vortox, pit-hag, evil twin, snake charmer, dreamer and flowergirl so I know I don't have to worry about them

[sharp violet]

No player count specified, so... 7 players it is!
Vortox, Witch, Philo, Savant, Artist

[shrewd cloud]

Fang Gu with Evil Twin and Pit-Hag. Bluffwise, I'm not picky, but stuff like Artist, Oracle, and Sage can be nice, especially with Fang Gu

[vale oxide]

Vigor, minions Pit Hag and Cere, bluffs Sage, Savant, Klutz

Sage and Klutz going to my minions

[cursive cobalt]

Vigor
Minions: anything that’s not ET
Bluffs: Savant (I love me a good Savant bluff), Seamstress (have a minion confirm me then die), Oracle (other minions confirms the first minion as not vigor killed)

Alternatively, swap Oracle/Savant for Sage

Late game Sage bluff goes hard

[vale oxide]

🤝

It's also very good to know that Sage isn't in play

[cursive cobalt]

Ye

I guess with Vigor, you probably want an outsider bluff

Klutz is probably best for that

[dense moat]

This is also valid. I usually think in 12 players, but I'm happy to encourage all interpretations

[fast anchor]

Depends on the playercount

If 0 outsiders, I hope I'm the Vortox with a Cere and Pit-Hag (and a Cere that isn't afraid to self-madden and die bluffing Mutant to sell a Fang Gu game). Bluffs are Town Crier, Artist, and Snake Charmer

Otherwise, I hope I'm the Fang Gu with a Pit-Hag and Evil Twin. Give me an Outsider bluff so I can tell the Pit-Hag what to turn the jump target into, and Flowergirl & Philo for the other two

I would've asked for a Sage bluff but bluffing a high-power role that got sniped can throw sus on the people you talked to before dying

[sharp violet]

So do I, my thought process was Fang Gu for +1 Outsider - would rather have No Dashii - No Dashii in 7P is very strong - take out all the best info roles - if I'm disabling 2 info roles, might as well nerf all of them with Vortox - should make the game go faster so Witch

[dense moat]

Honestly No Dashii could still be better

Vortox is relatively easy to discover and reverse.

[sharp violet]

Which is why I took out Savant and Philo so they cant have 2 false statements that they can reverse

Thinking about it now, let's do 5P Teensy No Dashii Witch, no toymaker so no bluffs

[fast anchor]

surely you go cerenovus and hope the cere snipes the only sober townsfolk

[tacit fiber]

[sage atlas]

3 days late

[tacit fiber]

You better hope there is no on the other side

well

you are here now

thoughts?

[sage atlas]

pain

[tacit fiber]

true

[heady cradle]

2/9: Would you ever bluff Atheist as a good character? What scripts would allow that to happen?

Kind of a weird one, but I was thinking about it recently.

[fresh shard]

Probably not practically, but theoretically, maybe a situation where I'm trying to bait out a demon kill by signalling to them I'm lying about my role for some reason?

Also if a Cerenovus makes you mad that you're the atheist lmao

[cursive cobalt]

On scripts and with players that tend to out evil to Politicians (they do exist), maybe

But very rarely

It doesn’t seem very practical to do

Since it just gets you killed

And most evils won’t out evil to good players playing for evil

[minor pier]

Lots of ways, actually.
Be Damsel, bluff Atheist, get executed Day 1, profit.
Other applications would be bluffing Atheist Day 1, to dissuade evil from bluffing it, on a script where you plausibly could be a Drunk Atheist. Then retract claim later, eliminating all Atheist worlds if no one else clung to the claim early.
It's also a quintessential Politician bluff, if we are allowed to count that one as good.

[sweet birch]

Be damsel, bluff atheist D1, get guessed 💀

[fresh shard]

Yeah you're signalling to evil that you want to hide your role so it's only useful when you actively want evil to know you're doing that

If anything you would bluff atheist specifically to make them think you're a hiding Damsel or some further level of recursion

[minor pier]

It all depends on group meta and usual plays I suppose, but that does further reinforce my point about having plenty of reasons to bluff Atheist on Day 1 as good, especially if the script has the Drunk.

[sage atlas]

A heretic bluffing atheist is the most logical thing

[abstract cosmos]

its now in the archive server, but i've ran a game where someone bluffed atheist as the poppygrower, got the demon to out to them and resulted in a day 1 rerack

[heady cradle]

Wait, why would the Demon out to the—
Oh, that's a minion signal

That's genius

[signal holly]

Heretic scripts?

it's a really risky play, but i could see an argument for either of "i'm the Heretic, let's get the storyteller executed" or "i'm bluffing Heretic bluffing Atheist to bait the demon into killing themself"

[lucid crag]

Sounds lovely, I rate scarlet woman over organ grinder tho

[lucid crag]

I'd do it as a ysk role only if cannibal was on script and I heard of them

[cursive cobalt]

2/10: if you had to rework one released role in the base 3 editions, what would it be and how would you rework it?

[vale oxide]

Idk the first thing I thought of is giving butler the "(even if dead)" at the end

[fast anchor]

Professor can only resurrect people who died at night

lets the shab actually bluff it

[heady cradle]

Professor is definitely the one I'd go for

As a weird thing
I'd consider the Prof dying and their target living, if the latter is a townsfolk

[spiral pollen]

yeah just professor

[copper quail]

Agreed for the Professor thing
I could see Vortox reworked as "if noone died today, evil wins" so it would add more spice and avoid double tapping someone dead in the case there's a tie 🙈

[cursive cobalt]

This would make Vortox unusable on scripts with execution survival

[copper quail]

True thought the question was only inside their homescript but worth to note

[tall raft]

Exactly what Axolator said

[sweet birch]

The prof thing, but also I would like for someone at some point to write a whole separate article just dedicated to the question of if or not x weird scenario pings the math

[fast anchor]

Math writeup when 🙏

[flat lintel]

Probably get rid of stupid courtier

I just cannot

Rework a few bmr things

Like lunatic too

For tb, Everything cuz it sucks

For snv, ^^^

[hot orchid]

I'd put an Outsider that doesn't want to die into TB over the Butler, because that's something a lot of outsiders do that isn't introduced there

It also expands the encouragement of lying

[flat lintel]

But tbh, for snv, its that stupid -1 for vigor

[tacit fiber]

I’d like bc it’s a very beginner friendly role (it’s in NGJ) but also like a simple role

[flat lintel]

Vigor is so weak on snv it doesnt need that

[shrewd cloud]

-1 is sort of a double edged sword. It does mean that there’s an extra Townsfolk running around, but it’s also free bluffing space. And the Outsiders on SnV do work really well with Minions who claim them and get killed at night

I still think Vigor’s a weak Demon, but the -1 is a tool that evil should absolutely take advantage of. Especially since if they don’t, they are just left with an extra Townsfolk

I think Vigor’s ultimately a Demon where it’s strengths require a really active evil team to take advantage of the free bluffing and to identify opportunities to vigorkill a Minion, since there are absolutely costs associated with vigorkilling that an evil should really consider before going through with it. Too often I see evil teams pass up good opportunities to vigorkill a Minion or vigorkill a Minion at a really bad time and do basically nothing with it and waste a night

[sharp violet]

-1 on Vigor is fine specifically on S&V, it doesn’t need it on other scripts (someone should make a script with Bootlegger to remove it)

[spiral pollen]

Without the -1 it'd be horrible imo

[lucid crag]

To sum things up, if you don't like the -1 you have a skill issue /j

Anyway

I'd rework mez so when it turns somebody it dies even if it couldn't

Since mez is pretty much untrackable

Though even then more could be done to mez

[fast anchor]

one released role in the base 3 editions
my favorite base 3 role, the mezepheles

12/2: You're playing a game of Bad Moon Rising. You pull a token out of the bag, and it's blue. What are you most hoping for?

[lucid crag]

Lunatic

[fast anchor]

okay, that's definitely going against the spirit of the question :P

[lucid crag]

Because that means I'm demon

[lucid crag]

Clockmaker if I've gotta choose

(Damn that's not even bmr is it)

Goon

Final answer

[vale oxide]

Gossip

[tall raft]

TL

[dusky minnow]

Gossip yea. Though goon is also funny

Chambermaid would be my 3rd pick

[fresh shard]

Gossip or Courtier

Mostly because trolling the DA is never not funny

[cursive cobalt]

Pacifist

Time to bust some powerful claims

And become confirmed

[heady cradle]

I'm not playing BMR 😅

[copper quail]

Gambler ✨

[signal holly]

gambler is definitely up there
Goon also a good shout

but honestly my favorite BMR role to pull is Professor

I don't enjoy the existence of Prof very much when I'm not the Professor, it is not a well designed or balanced role

but it provides a great justification for the playstyle I enjoy anyway, which is "lie to everyone for the first couple days, do anything I can to survive, and then confirm myself while evil tries to frame me"

[sweet birch]

Gambler because I like suicide

[tacit fiber]

[fast anchor]

That’s red

Not blue

[tacit fiber]

Ah

[sharp violet]

Pacifist if I have a good ST, Fool if I don't

[pliant grail]

how much trouble would I get in if I answered a question from august?
just got a story I want to tell

[sage atlas]

tealady, i like the ability to confirm my neighbors and it would be fun to try to make up a reason to get one executed just incase they dont survive

[heady cradle]

You'd be expelled from the server, and a hunter killer drone would be dispatched to your current location to ensure a transgression was addressed with appropriate and extreme violence.
(/s if it wasn't clear, I'm excited to hear your tale)

[pliant grail]

so last weekend I storytold a game of bad moon rising with a few extra custom characters. I spent over an hour planning, including presentation and performance on my part. the game went well, it was the first game i've storytold without making a single mistake, everything was coming together perfectly. the seeds I had planted to clue in on my overcomplicated plot were coming into fruition for both teams. Then, the game ended rather suddenly when the good team zeroed in on the demon, a po, right before they had a charged kill night. Executed them, won the game. Oh well, it was fine, and then I learned that a group of players had agreed before hand to truthfully tell them what role they got, even if evil. Of course, one of them was evil, and told them not only their role (devil's advocate) but also who the godfather and po were.

quickly went from best game ever to worst
worse, it was late, and I probably overreacted
all of the involved players did realize what a jerk move it was, luckily, and it won't happen again, but that game won't either. Literal pride and joy of my custom character creation& usage and storytelling

[indigo osprey]

Wow, that's absolutely sucky

I would be seriously upset if that happened

I don't know how you reacted, but being upset is perfectly justified in that scenario

like

they wasted everyone else's time

[cursive cobalt]

Thats terrible

So were players just acting it out without genuinely trying to solve for the demon?

[fresh shard]

That would definitely get someone thrown out of my group

[cursive cobalt]

2/13: What was the toughest ST decision you've ever made?

[fast anchor]

I’ve made a lot of decisions but the top 3 is entirely shab rezzes

I can think of three separate occasions where I’d basically be deciding who won based on whether or not I raised

BMR is jank

but good jank 🥰

[cursive cobalt]

facts

[shrewd cloud]

Shab rezzes are also up there for me as well. Also had the game where Innkeeper kept drinking with Organ Grinder and other Minions

I drunked the other Minion every time but it still felt bad to screw up the DA’s plan so hard

[vale oxide]

I can't remember any really tough ST decision I had tbh. Maybe turning a Poli one time

Orr making Savant info

[sweet birch]

To execute for ceremadness or let the vortox win go through in #1173823537698586664

[pliant grail]

Yes
I don't see the appeal, and then we were told we needed to finish up, they basically dropped all pretenses and went for the demon

[cursive cobalt]

That sounds incredibly dumb

[pliant grail]

yeah
it'll not happen again (or else people will be removed from the group at the very least temporarily) but it was incredibly frustrating

[fast anchor]

14/2: You're playing a game of Sects & Violets. You pull a token out of the bag, and it's blue. What are you most hoping for?

[sweet birch]

SAVANT SAVANT SAVANT MY BELOVED

And if not that I want philo so I can be the SAVAAAAAAAANT

[sage atlas]

i would like philo because i dont know what i want

[sweet birch]

Lol I'd think philo would be the worst in that instance :P

[fresh shard]

Savant or Juggler in general, Artist if playing with an ST who doesn't basically dislike the role

[vale oxide]

Philo, then go Savant night 1

Savant can be philodrunk

Philo Savant can't be philodrunk

👍

[valid garden]

Mathematician

(or maybe savant)

[cursive cobalt]

Savant (or Philo so I can go Savant)

[copper quail]

Hard saaaame

[past kayak]

Savant (better yet Philo Savant)

[dusky minnow]

Savant as well

[mild notch]

Snake Charmer

[heady cradle]

Savant is scary

But very fun

[minor pier]

Just give me something relaxing like Oracle.

[spiral pollen]

Mathematician

[supple dirge]

Mutant or snake charmer

[tacit fiber]

[oak ice]

Always Mutant. Never not Mutant. Mutant 4 life

[cursive cobalt]

We found the Cerenovus target boys

[sharp violet]

Artist, I want a redemption for my best Artist game

(did a "Split the grim" question with 6 non-twin players left, got the entire rest of the evil team, that night the Fang Gu jumped to an outsider on the other side of the split who agreed to it secretly)

[fast anchor]

this is way less split than the TB and BMR questions

[tall raft]

Seamstress

It's one of my favorite characters

[fast anchor]

anyway to answer my own questions like a complete tool:

TB) Butler (zero responsibility let's gooooo)
BMR) Courtier (🧐 which minion should i drunk today)
S&V) Artist (get ready for the juggler 6 it's so gonna work this time)

[lucid crag]

Should I let @sharp violet use their Randomat weapon "Deck Of Cards" which allows them to cheat once tonight, to allow them to engineer the demon into the Cheater, a demon that can cheat every night and dies if accused by a living player of cheating?

(The answer to the above question is always no, but unfortunately I answered yes the first time I was asked it lmao)

[fresh shard]

15/2: Which demon do you most enjoy playing against as good?

[vale oxide]

Alhad

[spiral pollen]

that's tough cause generally you don't know what you're playing against until the end of the game

you're essentially playing against every demon

but I guess imp cause it's TB

:)

[cursive cobalt]

Alhad

[pliant grail]

We haven't yet but I look forward to playing an al hadikha with my group

[cursive cobalt]

Its not weak enough to feel like you’re stomping the demon just by playing normally

It’s quite deadly tbh

But that’s what makes it fun

The dilemma it brings to a game is interesting

And if you fall to it, you only have yourself to blame

[spiral pollen]

Yeah alhad is good

Reptiles is one of my favourite scripts

[cursive cobalt]

True

Each demon, in a way, has some of the power of every other on-script demon

[fresh shard]

Hm, maybe I should have limited it to base 3 (I rarely play customs)

Never been in an Al-Had game but No Dashii games usually feel satisfying to solve

[cursive cobalt]

If you think about it for a second

No Dashii is just another flavor of Lleech

[vale oxide]

No Dashii would be my base 3 choice

[fresh shard]

I think the positioning limitation is pretty core to No Dashii as a demon but I see where you're coming from

[cursive cobalt]

I mean

Just like Lleech

It’s a “solve poison, solve game” demon

[vale oxide]

Other way round

[hot orchid]

I feel like Lleech is an interesting and fun demon to play against

[tacit fiber]

[sweet birch]

Pukka

Mainly because they tend to have a really rough time, better for my winrate

[tacit fiber]

tangent: why does and look so similar

[flat lintel]

Lowkey imp

Just the classic

But I have starpassing

So maybe no dash

[fast anchor]

the ones that are bad at the game so i can win :)

but i'm a big fan of the BMR demons, pukka and shab especially

[past kayak]

I like playing against Shab for the chance of getting revived

Just gotta slip the ST a bag of chips

[sweet birch]

Me omw to gossip "x player is the Shab" before handing the ST 20 bucks to revive me

[copper quail]

Imp, Vigor, Vortox I'd say

[cursive cobalt]

2/16: You’re playing BMR and you’re a demon. What roles are you looking to kill first, and as which demon?

[vale oxide]

I'm Po, my priority would be protection roles like TL or IK

And I'm bluffing Gossip regardless of whether I got it as a bluff or not 🥹

[cursive cobalt]

Do you have a specific sub-priority within that category

[vale oxide]

What does that mean

[cursive cobalt]

Are some protection roles more dangerous than others

[vale oxide]

Oh sorry

[sweet birch]

Gambler, Chambermaid

[vale oxide]

IK is my top priority probably

[sweet birch]

And then from there it depends on how sus the specific players are

[past kayak]

Gambler & Courtier are almost always my top priorities

[sweet birch]

In my experience most Courtiers hit the wrong demon

[cursive cobalt]

The real power of Courtiers is disabling DAs

[fresh shard]

If I get courtier I'm sniping the DA on day one

Unless it's a one minion game

[past kayak]

Yeah I don't care about Courtiers that go for a demon snipe, I watch for the ones that disable minions

[tacit fiber]

killing

[copper quail]

: Exorcist
: Chambermaid/Courtier
: Tea Lady/Courtier
: Minstrel/Tea Lady

[fresh shard]

Whether I target down Courtiers depend on which minions I have. Generally Tea Lady is a priority target if I can stop them confirming their neighbours.

I haven't played much BMR though because I'm one of the few in my group who likes it

[fast anchor]

: Minstrel (eek no second life!), Professor, Gambler
: Chambermaid (if I don't have a safe bluff), Tea Lady, Fool
: Tealady, Gambler, Professor, (Goon to flip them if I can't tell the D/A that day)
: Minstrel (trauma), Tea Lady, Professor, Gambler

[heady cradle]

Why Fool on Pukka?

Pukka kills fool easy. Ya poison them, their ability doesn't work, they die

Well, I guess that loudly announces that it's Pukka

Right

[fast anchor]

If you hit them N1 then yes, but later on the good team can be pulling their hair out trying to figure out where the extra kill came from that killed the fool

[sharp violet]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat, no that was a perfectly normal and sane decision now let me do it again

WTF is this thread btw

Im just pinged here

[copper quail]

Secret thing where there's often a question asked each day related to BOTC
It exists since last May 🙈

[fresh shard]

Oh hey, we haven't had a question for a couple of days

18/2: What's your favourite Savant statement you've ever given or received?

[sharp violet]

"You are the savant"

[fresh shard]

(I enjoy on a theoretical level that "X is the Demon, X is the Demon" is a legal Savant statement when someone is the Recluse)

[sharp violet]

Ive also had "Someone is under the affect of four different minion abilities" in a B2 game

Lil monsta + Alc Fear + Cere + Poisoner

[cursive cobalt]

"Your previous two statement pairs are now of equal polarity"

[fast anchor]

“Exactly half of the statements you have received have been true”

“If you had the Juggler, Clockmaker, and Oracle abilities last night, you would’ve received the same number for all of them”

[signal holly]

versions of that last one are some of my favorites as well

though my personal favorite pair of Savant statements I've ever given was a particularly complex version of that because of Context(tm)

The Travelers' neighbors are exactly three different character types // If you had the Oracle, Mathematician, Clockmaker, Town Crier, and Flowergirl abilities last night you would have received at least one duplicate piece of information.

the Savant recieved Barista 1 the previous night, so they believed both statements were true, and so mostly ignored the second statement because it was trivially true in most worlds and focused on the first.

||that same night the Sweetheart had died and I had Sweetheart-drunked the Barista. The statements were thus F/T, as the six players who neighbored the three Travelers included three Townsfolk, an Outsider, a Minion, and the Demon.||

[fresh shard]

Wait, a drunk Barista can incorrectly tell someone they're affected by its ability?

[dusky minnow]

I think in this case the Barista was made drunk later in the night order

[fresh shard]

Useful to know, had no idea that was mechanically possible

[sharp violet]

A drunk barista cant tell anyone anything
But if a barista gets used on player A, while player A is drunk, and then the barista is drunked by player B before player A can act in the night order, then yes, player A will have been told they are sober and healthy but actually be drunk

But at the time they were TOLD they were sober they were sober

[sharp violet]

Barista acts first thing in the night order, Demon killed the Sweetheart later on

[cursive cobalt]

2/19: What is your favorite Outsider to have in play as evil?

[valid garden]

I think it depends on my evil team a lot

If there's a widow? Puzzlemaster

[flat lintel]

goon.

[valid garden]

Goon can be good

For the evil team I mean, I'm not saying it can change alignment

[fresh shard]

Pacifist

Seriously probably either the Mutant or the Drunk. An outsider not knowing or not willing to say they're an outsider usually does more damage to the good team than the negative consequences of the Outsider ability.

[valid garden]

In that case I'll put politician up there

[flat lintel]

Goon:

• doesn't tell good they exist
• drunks other players
• can turn evil
• can be an extra evil vote

[hot orchid]

Politician can do a lot of heavy lifting

[flat lintel]

objectively the best outsider tbh

[hot orchid]

And even if they play for good, they can't out

[flat lintel]

poli is a close second, but you have to convince the poli to play for good, the goon can just be turned evil

[hot orchid]

My thought process is, Politician is the most hidden

Even more than Drunk in some cases

Drunk will get info that doesn't add up

Poli can't play much if people think they'll backstab them

[vale oxide]

Politician or Damsel

[vale oxide]

Damsel is more hidden I think

[flat lintel]

Damsel's only not hidden when they're found or dead

[supple dirge]

I like the damsel guessing mini game as a minion

[fast anchor]

Goon

[shrewd cloud]

Damsel. Extra win con, a good player who is incentivized to lie, and a real possibility of there being a Hunstman instead of a more dangerous TF

[lucid crag]

barber, it's always nice to have an escape hatch

[sweet birch]

^ especially if it was hagged into play and we know exactly who it is

[flat lintel]

what about hatter?

objectively better with the additional rule

[sharp violet]

that's assuming you're playing with the additional rule, which I don't think is as balanced

[cursive cobalt]

I would usually prefer Barber > Hatter without Mad Hatter

Mad Hatter makes it objectively better as you mentioned, but imo its also not a very fair ruling

So I wouldn't consider it the norm

[tall raft]

Why can’t they?

[hot orchid]

Because the good team won't trust anything they do because they could easily be playing for the evil win

[cursive cobalt]

I feel as if you're used to playing with STs who are too nice to Polis if this is the case

[hot orchid]

Even if it's hard, it's always something you have to be afraid of them doing

[tacit fiber]

I like playing for evil

[fast anchor]

20/2: You're playing a game of Trouble Brewing. You pull a token out of the bag, and it's RED. What are you most hoping for?

[cursive cobalt]

Spy

100%

I love being able to mastermind right off the getgo

[vale oxide]

Spy

Or maybe Baron

[spiral pollen]

Imp I think

[valid garden]

Spy 90%, Baron 10%

Depends

[sweet birch]

Poisoner for power, Imp for fun

[spiral pollen]

I prefer being demon overall

on any script

[tacit fiber]

omg

so fun

[past kayak]

I like intentionally framing my demon and getting them killed, it messes with social reads so much

[cursive cobalt]

Poisoner is kinda meh for me because its just so swingy

Without a Spy

You're always going to be making a choice, then instantly regretting not making another one the next day

(Or I guess highrolling into the legendary Invest snipe N1)

[supple dirge]

I love being posioner, even as the only minion. You gotta figure out the game like the good team and direct your misinfo.

[cursive cobalt]

It's a mixed bag of a minion for sure

The swing sometimes feels like you're just profitting off luck

Especially if you highroll early game

[supple dirge]

Luck is mostly night 1, after that is more strategy and figuring out what people are.

[copper quail]

Spy as well
Looking folks lying to you when you know the truth is kind of funny

[hot orchid]

Baron, I want to bluff Virgin and see how much time I can waste

I like attention, I think I can be the most important person in town for at least two days

[fresh shard]

Baron because it's fun to just mess with people more or less consequence free

[tall raft]

Imp

Then poisoner

I love puzzling out who to choose at night

And seeing the results of that determine the game

[flat lintel]

Recluse? Its red right?

[fast anchor]

so close! it is blue 🥰

[shrewd cloud]

It misregisters so hard that it registers as red to the human eye

Scientists are bewildered

[cursive cobalt]

2/21: Favorite character icon?

[shrewd cloud]

That’s a hard one, there is some baller art out there

I really like the Vortox and Vigormortis’ icons

[vale oxide]

Hm

Took me way too long to notice the face XD

[shrewd cloud]

TF:
Outsider:
Minion:
Demon: or

[supple dirge]

Love how sharp and imposing vizier looks

[heady cradle]

I like the icon on the server 😅

It really reminds me of this

[heady cradle]

Where face

[vale oxide]

Inside

Head, not face sorry

[tacit fiber]

https://wiki.bloodontheclocktower.com/images/c/cb/Icon_legion.png

Immediately understand the world building here

What’s going on

Very cool

I think that the red also compliments it as it looks like it’s a blood hand

[dusky minnow]

Oh wow I never noticed that either! That's really cool

[shrewd cloud]

Legion also is a top tier icon for me too

Very cool imagery and conveys a lot

[shrewd cloud]

Me when the good Legion just looks like somebody from Avatar

[sweet birch]

MONKE

[fast anchor]

22/2: You're playing a game of Bad Moon Rising. You pull a token out of the bag, and it's RED. What are you most hoping for?

[minor pier]

Gimme Zombuul

[plain torrent]

anything but it's the only BMR role i've ever played, im cursed
maybe, seems interesting

[fresh shard]

Godfather seems like a lot of fun yeah

Going with that or DA

[abstract cosmos]

i love being the DeeA

[sweet birch]

Lunatic

[fresh shard]

I've had BMR games where my genuine best play was to just hope I was the lunatic

Lost a game day 1 because a tea lady was sat next to me and a grandmother confirmed player 😦

[sweet birch]

That's on the ST for putting the grandchild there

[tacit fiber]

[sweet birch]

(Specifically zombuul lunatic so that once I realize I can meta actual zombuul game)

[tacit fiber]

Last BMR game I played I was in a game where my minion was good but they fully played into me being the real demon even though I wasn't, I was completely confused when three people died day 3 lmao

[fast anchor]

i wonder who ran that game

[tacit fiber]

I wonder

[copper quail]

Devil's Advocate ✨

[vale oxide]

[past kayak]

who up mastering they mind (I love letting my demon die)

[vale oxide]

I love making my demon think they're the lunatic

[valid garden]

Godfather!

[cursive cobalt]

For sure

[supple dirge]

Been the DA in BMR more than any other role. I want to be the demon

[sage atlas]

2/22: You're playing a custom script. You pull a token out of the bag, and it's BLUE. What are you most hoping for?

[cursive cobalt]

At this point just rename the channel

Lmao

Depends what custom script

I’d be happy getting any of my favorite characters

But what else is on the script might make me reconsider

Mostly

I like characters that encourage alternative playstyles

And/or provide unique puzzles in their kit

I’ll also never turn down the opportunity to be powerful

[fresh shard]

I like the characters who have their own little minigames

[cursive cobalt]

Alternative playstyles

Yep

They’re fun unless your name is the Huntsman

[fresh shard]

Amne, High Priestess, VI (hated it on release but actually playing it has made it grow on me)

Yeah Huntsman is barely a minigame because you usually have no serious shot at winning

[cursive cobalt]

Playing Huntsman is like playing one of those rigged claw machines

It’s sad

You know you have a shot at victory

But why spend half your savings when you can get the same prize for two bucks at the concessions stand

[fresh shard]

"what if the Scholar from Fall of Rome but it only works on one specific Outsider, you only get one try, and it never triggers by accident"

Memorable when your blind day 1 punt works I suppose

But I'm getting off topic lol

[cursive cobalt]

Don’t forget the fact that one specific outsider also often loses the game for good if they make themselves known

[cursive cobalt]

I would enjoy drawing Pacifist a lot less if it was on a Lleech script

Or drawing PM if a Widow was on script

[fresh shard]

Honestly I don't think I would mind that if the ST never saved the host

[cursive cobalt]

Or any blue token

On a legion script

[fresh shard]

I like PM in principle but the only time I've seen it in play, they were their own puzzledrunk

[cursive cobalt]

I mean I would hate drawing the Pacifist if the ST doesn’t vow to run it well

But that’s not the issue

Pacifist is still enjoyable to me in Lleech

It’s just less effective

Because testing can’t be augmented via timing changes

As you can do with a DA

[fresh shard]

Fair point

[cursive cobalt]

Savant is fun

If your ST runs it well

I’ve learned not to default Philo into it in snv anymore because some STs cannot cook with it 💀

[fresh shard]

Artist is fun in customs but often not well balanced

But I try to come up with fun questions rather than optimising on customs

[tacit fiber]

2/23 You are playing b4 Lizards, you hear your mutation but not your ability itself, what are you hoping for most?

[tacit fiber]

[fresh shard]

Lizards?

[tacit fiber]

Pick a character for each type, the ST makes a “mutation” of the ability for its character type.

Like a townsfolk could be “Nominations fail if only evil voted”

[sharp violet]

https://discord.com/channels/569683781800296501/1064690145904840744

[sharp violet]

seems fun

[tacit fiber]

What character type? Tf, Minion, Demon…

[sharp violet]

Honestly any of them would be great, there’s some cool ideas that could be done with each

[cursive cobalt]

2/24: Least favorite character(s) to play?

[copper quail]

Damsel Klutz- scared of screwing my team 🙈

[smoky mural]

Innkeeper. I feel too much guilt when it comes to drunkeness part

[cursive cobalt]

Townsfolk PM is kind of like Beekeeper

[tacit fiber]

(Nobody ever believes me)

[valid garden]

Huntsman

[sweet birch]

Also huntsman

Special shout-outs to "any minion in a pukka game" though because I swear I'm cursed

[heady cradle]

Would this fix things?
Huntsman (Townsfolk): Each night*, choose a living player: an Outsider, if chosen, becomes a not-in-play Townsfolk, and the Demon, if chosen, learns who you are. [+Damsel]

[spiral pollen]

I think that's overpowered

[heady cradle]

better?

[vale oxide]

Sorry accidentally pinged you

[minor pier]

, cause you really don't feel like you have any agency whatsoever.

[fresh shard]

Pukka because just feels so weak for a demon

[sweet birch]

That's way too strong

Maybe as an OPG it would be better? Might still be too strong though

[exotic bone]

I know patters sometimes uses a version on his stream which is each night* (still just damsel though) but picking a minion once drunks you for the rest of the game which seems to be a bit better

[flat lintel]

Baron game where by simply being the Baron, you’ve hurt the Good team 😦

Also the reason Huntsman sorta works is because the Demon has no reason to kill them

[sweet birch]

Huntsman in its current iteration doesn't work though

[cursive cobalt]

Huntsman would be fine if it was each night.