#Tweak gender and orientation a little

91 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

queen lion
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According to the worldwide statistics ~90% people are heterosexual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation.
While in the game it seems that chances that person will be male/female/nonbinary are equal and then partner selection between them is completely random that leads to the situation when it looks like most of the pairs are homosexual. At least this is good explainations why there are no children in the game. The city is rotten indeed.

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It doesn't change gameplay part though, but for me it breaks immersion because it don't corresponds with the real world experience

dull pumice
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This is a completely different world and timeline, I don't really see a need to introduce more mechanics just to limit something that has no bearing on how the game plays out 🤷‍♂️

spring rampart
dull pumice
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It just doesn't care or weight things in any particular direction. Citizens can pair up to become partners, that's as much as it checks for things to my knowledge.

verbal zenith
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It's really not that important, and how does that makes the city "rotten" exactly?

queen lion
verbal zenith
spring rampart
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i didnt even realize there was a third gender in the game, havent seen it yet i guess

verbal zenith
astral wraith
spring rampart
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ohhh ill have to keep a look out for that

calm grove
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I was actually pleasantly surprised with how this game handled inclusion. It's not in your face à la Netflix, it's just there you know ? There's no virtue signaling, yet the game doesn't apologize for putting non-binary people for example. IMO a perfect example of how things should be done, it's non polarizing but it's clear that's it's non negotiable for the devs. Kudos.

tribal snow
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I don't think making an argument for realism as the reason to weight coupling between NPCs is a very good one. I was unable to find a wikipedia article on Sync Disk technology so we should remove that. Despite hours of searching, I was unable to confirm that Starch Kola Corporation is a real entity so that's out. According to the FBI's extensive research into serial slayings, more than 99% of slayings are exclusively single victim events, so murderers should stop killing at 1. I couldn't find any record of cities being built on islands above a poison ocean, so I'm going to open a thread suggesting we change the setting, too.

Its a video game, dawg. It just completely randomly shuffles the citizens into partnerships with little consideration for anything else.

astral wraith
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There's an argument to be made about something being realistic vs realism and how they affect the authenticity, however I personally don't feel that having it be fully random really affects the authenticity, so I'd leave it as is.

low coyote
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i generally agree with cleu, i like that it's just there

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i could understand a slider if it were to ever somehow be tied into what type of crimes are committed by people, but i don't rly like of itself that as a feature

tribal snow
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I dunno, Tahv, the setting is pretty alien and has lots of alternate universe stuff going on. It strikes me as.. unwholesome that the straw that breaks the realism camel's back for the poster is people living with whoever and not like shoving a hard disk platter in your body gives you the ability to have steel shins or makes you 15% smaller

astral wraith
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Like I said, it doesn't affect the authenticity for me AoiXD
I mean it more in the case of comparing it to reality

slim spindle
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I feel like it's fine the only reason I would want more is just for flavor every victim I've witnessed so far has been a lesbian couple which i have no problem with but it does get old quick almost makes it feel like the same case over and over.

So really other then flavor and diversity I see no reason to change up how the couple system works

frigid maple
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the way I see it is that the setting is just an offshoot of how real life may have gone if history went along a different track more than a brand new setting, so there actually is a case that having very few same-sex couples in the game doesn't really fit. It does break the immersion in the sense that it's very hard to believe that the cities in this game are a genuine society based on the fact that people are just not reproducing (at least in the sense that it's hard to believe that people would be)

it's not really something that's a deal breaker for being immersed, but it's a very bizarre detail in a setting that is relatively similar to real life in that sense (AI shenanigans aside)

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I think that was what the OP was trying to say, just worded it terribly

tribal snow
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People aren't reproducing because society is a series of platform cities only barely able to stay above the rising poison ocean with some parts of the city (Basement 2) actually being below the water line already. Its basically a doomsday scenario. No sane person would have children in this universe, I sure wouldn't.

dull pumice
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Heck, they might not even be allowed/capable. There might be some eugenics funkiness going on and that's part of what The Fields are, a retirement/repopulation community. Plenty of room for theorycrafting in the world

tribal snow
runic ledge
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Oh god the idea that the Fields is a genuine decent place that is the only place you're allowed to reproduce as a eugenics practice (only those with very high social credit standing can have children) is a disturbing premise that would be very fun to explore

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It would also explain birth control pills being so common as a random decorative item in apartments and the lack of children in the city

tribal snow
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Yea, there is birth control everywhere even in FF same sex couple houses there will be tons of it laying around

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Maybe Starch Kola is doing a big Eugenics, man that totally fits with the rest of the terrible dystopia in the game

south apex
spring rampart
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lol! i think i definitely have that seed

grizzled panther
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Who cares? It's a alternate universe where we are on islands floating in poo poo water

high flicker
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i totally agree....also it's like the 20th century ingame.

daring hamlet
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Does it interfere with investigations? I've only found it jarring when the gender doesn't match the characteristics of the individual, perhaps the low quality of the NPCs didn't help that though. I think I've actually had more cases where names didn't match up to their expected genders, other than being an annoyance I don't think it changed the investigation.

Any of these arguments like 'you don't have an issue with sync disks so gender and orientation shouldn't matter' kind of fall flat with me. The game features humans so we might expect the portrayal of humans to match with our life experiences/reality especially concerning the most inherent human characteristics like gender identity and sexuality. When we see an unrealistic (disproportionate compared to reality) number of gender abnormal and homosexual NPCs it might break immersion for some of us.

Saying that sync disks and other features of the game aren't realistic so that means that the humans shouldn't be just doesn't make sense, humans aren't technological devices etc and tend to stay rather consistent over time. Even in the most liberal parts of the world - the west - 90% of the population are not gay and a minority within a minority are transgender, gender dysphoric, non binary, gender fluid, wolves, demons etc so to have such overinflated figures like we see in the game are bizarre.

Perhaps a statement by the Dev or perhaps just a simple result of weighting things equally that in reality are not weighted equally.

Shouldn't be too difficult to modify the game to change the weighting of these things anyway.

trim sorrel
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Who cares. Having queer people in my city hasn't bothered me yet.

daring hamlet
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Exactly, if people want to change it then let them just mod it!

trim sorrel
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It doesn't even affect anything, mechanically.

daring hamlet
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Sure, so keeping it the same or modifying it wouldn't matter, just up to the preference of the individual

daring hamlet
dull pumice
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Y'know those statistics for less than 10% of the population being gay/bi/generally not hetero? Those are based on personal surveys where people have to themselves answer with their orientation.

Imagine how many more people would answer "not hetero" if they didn't feel like it was something to hide for fear of being abandoned by their family and ostracized from society or worse, actively hunted down. Or even just if they didn't think to themselves "there's no way I could be like that, that's disgusting/immoral/abnormal"

Am I saying there would be equal numbers even if it was perfectly free? No, the majority would most probably still be cisgender and mostly-hetero. But discounting a portion of a population because they make up such a small percentage of it miiiight have a little something to do with why more don't openly identify as that portion.

trim sorrel
daring hamlet
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Why are you offended? I've seen people identifying as wolves and demons, I think I've seen others identify as clowns also. I am tolerant of all identities so if you interpret me as being 'queerphobic' (whatever that means) without really knowing anything about me at all then I think you're the person with the problem.

trim sorrel
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I can tell people identify as clowns, I seem to be talking to one right now.

daring hamlet
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Probably better to ask a person why they said something instead of calling them names. How am I a clown exactly?

trim sorrel
daring hamlet
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What about that? Why aren't you being tolerant? I think you are trying to pick out things because you don't like what I said.

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It just seems like impotent rage that can't really do anything, you're upset and calling people clowns. Nothing I have said in here has been offensive (at least to people that have read it without the intent of being offended). Keep fighting that imaginary monster

dull pumice
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Aaaaand here is where we all stop and pull out of the thread to think about things for a bit, to avoid pumping this situation into enough of a fight that people get bonked by mods.

tribal snow
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It was destined to go off the rails, nature of the topic

daring hamlet
stiff vault
wintry quest
spring rampart
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i really don't understand why people take suggestions so personally, please be respectful to everyone. just because someone doesnt agree w your viewpoint does not make them evil, wrong, or phobic. preferences are preferences and suggestions are suggestions. its a thread in a video game discord, not a platform to attack anyone. if you disagree, state thoughtful reasons why you dont instead of being passive aggressive or mean

honest dagger
honest dagger
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At the end of the day, the cyberpunk genre (which this game is) has always treated gender, sexuality and relationships in the way that the punk genre has treated gender, sexuality and relationships which is not giving a flying fuck as theres bigger things to worry about like the poison ocean. Why be divided on who you can have sex with when your planet is sinking into the ocean with only the corporations coming out on top. This isnt a representation of the real world its a punk representation of a dystopia, an underlying message in most cyberpunk pieces of media is that humans are human and theres nothing more human than loving one another thats the point so it shouldnt matter what someones sexuality is. This discussion obviously was going to get heated due to the nature of it but when the question "What is Human?" is posed quite simply should we continue to care about, sexuality, gendere and race. Obviously the game doesnt take all of these to heart and most likely the gender and relationship system is simply a balanced generation system but its thematically appropriate, and why make a change that would cause nothing but strife and controversy and go against a key principle in the genres theme. Also lets not even go into how controversial a 'world gayness slider' would even be

elfin jungle
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This is a terrible idea

This is a game.
This is not a political, ideological, woke simulator.

It's literally just a game.

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Why are you complaining about sexual orientation for NPCS lol

honest dagger
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Damn right

brave temple
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i love gay people actually i think there should be more

low coyote
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ehh
emotions are the reason we make suggestions if we didn't have them then we would never suggest anything, they're typically the main motivator for them in the first place, it's definitely a personal matter that compels us to talk about it in the first place

hate when it devolves into insult territory though, can understand how equating gender and species can come off poorly

daring hamlet
low coyote
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no problems, i doubt it was the intention but it was just how it came off to me

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i don't think you were malicious or anything, but that i can see how someone could get upset from seeing, 'dysmphoric, non binary, wolves, demons' grouped together
even if i don't get upset by it myself

daring hamlet
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Oh I see, definitely not the intention. Was an attempt to include all groups from all identities, should have kept the list a bit shorter I think 😂

I haven't been called a clown before so I guess I can add that to my list, grrr

low coyote
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relateable, being called a clown feels weird for me, espeically when it's just the emote and not the words
thumbs up

queen lion
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Slider would be nice

south apex
south apex
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Just let a game be a game. Spend your energy enjoying a great game, and not trying to make up things to be offended about.

daring hamlet
south apex
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You talked about how close to reality it is. Well, if the world wasn't so screwed up and hate filled for so long, who knows what it would be like today? If people didn't have to hide who they were, half the population could have been openly LGBTQ by now, because they wouldn't fear for their lives for it.

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Basically this game would could be the reality we would be living in if hate wasn't so prevalent.

daring hamlet
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Are you sure that half the population would be LGBTQ by now? Like is there science to back that up? I don't really see that reflected by anything scientific so I can't speak for it's validity.

south apex
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The LGBTQ population in the world today might actually be vastly larger than what polls show, because the people who have to answer those polls are still mostly living in fear of admitting they're not what their oppressive societies tell them they have to be.

daring hamlet
south apex
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It's like the whole left handed thing. For generations the number of people who admitted they were left handed was miniscule, because religious fanatics claims being left handed was Satanic. And people would force themselves to learn to write with their right hand. And once people finally got over that mindless hate, suddenly a massive portion of the population was able to say, without fear, that they were left handed. It wasn't that people suddenly BECAME left handed. It's that 99% of people who were left handed and were afraid to say so, could finally do so without oppression.
It's the same with the LGBTQ community. In some countries, those populations are growing on paper, but it's not that there's more of them, it's that there's more who are willing to admit that they are. If all the hatred and bigotry that STILL permeates countries like the US, Canada, UK, etc... was gone, and the open suppression and slaughter that many Middle Easter countries and countries like Russia carry out was done away with... how large would the amount of people willing to say they're LGBTQ be?

south apex
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Again, this is part of the problem. There is a lot of ignorance, if not straight hatred and oppression, of the LGBTQ community, because they've been oppressed for so long. Because media has played them up as a joke instead of treating them like the human beings they are.

daring hamlet
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It would seem that LGBTQ couples, mainly homosexual couples, bring less children into the world than heterosexual couples. So it would make sense that the population could decline if we just go by statistics.

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So I'm ignorant now right

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What I notice is a lot of name calling before even comprehending statements that a differing view makes. It feels like discussion is stifled by the very people that call out for tolerance the most.

south apex
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Considering that overpopulation is already a massive problem, that's not as big an issue as people would have you believe. Plus the fact that it's not going to suddenly cripple population growth. If anything it might slow it down slightly, or even just balance it out.
And I'm not saying you're ignorant to be malicious. But you made my point. You claimed that a large LGBTQ population would decrease population, and that's simply not true. But I don't think you're saying it out of malice or bigotry, simply because you don't know any better because society doesn't give you the opportunity to learn better.

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People see things based on biased polls and studies which are made up of people who have to hide the reality of who they are to protect themselves. So naturally a lot of those will show false data. And that's the problem. There are studies that take the time to be more specific and try to find better accuracy, but most of them don't. You'll have a company reach out to 10K people and ask them things, with a large portion of that group being terrified of admitting the truth. So the poll is already skewed.

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Hell, I was ignorant about the reality of the situation for ages. Sure, I've had LGBTQ friends while growing up, but I didn't take the time to really look into things. To learn the ins and outs. To learn the things that they have to do to fit in to society.

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And society doesn't make that easy. Especially with how biased most media is. Which some countries being VASTLY worse than others in that regard.

daring hamlet
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Lecture mode engaged I see. How is it possible that a larger portion of society that produces less children would NOT decrease population?

south apex
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Again, LGBTQ people are quite capable of producing children. In fact the largest factor in people having children is financial. More and more hetero couples aren't having kids because it's becoming less and less sustainable to do so. And countless LGBTQ couples either have kids of their own or adopt kids who without them might not have been born.

daring hamlet
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I feel like this is just common sense, if group A produces less children than group B and you increase the size of group A and decrease the size of group B... How does that not effect population size 😂

south apex
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Anyway, you're right, this could get into a long... longer... lecture. Which I don't really want to get into here. My point has been made. I get what you're saying, and I disagree. Simple as that.

daring hamlet
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You've meandered around my point and somehow said that I 'proved' yours. My point that it would decrease population has to be true if we base it on birthrates + adoption rates for heterosexual couples compared to LGBTQ couples. Whether that's good, bad, ugly, whatever it's just a fact.

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I think what's really gone on here is that you've wanted to lecture someone about the harsh realities of the world. Didn't come here to be lectured and condescended to in such a pretentious manner. As if I have no life experience and education, what a joke.