#Immersion, Economy, and Gameplay Loop Improvements

84 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

umbral nymph
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I'm not even close to being a developer, so I'm unsure how challenging these suggestions will be to implement.

I would like to see more settings or even an adjustable value/slider for more options such as...(all being optional sandbox settings preferably for a customizable experience)

Needs(Hunger, Thirst, Sleep, Recovery) - IMO this is an underrated part of the game and is good for immersive play, but I feel it could be more demanding without taking away from the game. This would also slightly alleviate the issue where there's currently no real money sink. Having to spend to maintain your needs could serve as a small way to keep pressure on the player to complete jobs at a reasonable rate.

Rent - I've seen this suggestion multiple times and it makes sense. There is no pressure when it comes to money, and having to pay rent to not be homeless would go a long way for this. IMO, a weekly cost makes sense since daily costs may not work too well with fresh saves. Having differences in costs of rent would also give the player more decisions to make, such as deciding to stay in a low-rent apartment for lesser aesthetics, space/storage, higher risk of danger on its street, compared to the benefits a more expensive apartment would bring.

Perhaps also make it so having items such as a Fridge, Shower, TV, Phone, Storage, slightly increases your weekly costs.

Economy Settings - Currently there's a difficulty setting that only changes the damage model. A setting for Economic Difficulty would do a lot for players looking for more challenge. This goes hand in hand with my views on Needs and Rent. IMO, being able to adjust things such(preferably separately) as Job Payouts, Costs of Items/Food, Hospital Fees, and Rent would allow the player to find an experience much more suited for themselves.

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Apartment Features - I haven't fully explored how the housing works in this game, so excuse me if I'm wrong about something or request something that's already in the game. From what I know, your home is where you can(without trespassing) take a shower, sleep, and store your items. I want to see the player's home serve more purpose than this.

Also, maybe some incentive to get out of the free basement you're given. Maybe very limited storage, no phone/internet service? Would give the player a reason to start actually renting, and they can decide when they want to start having money pressure. Or decide to rent once they have a certain amount saved up. Just more decisions to make.

Another thing I've seen discussed is the memory system being able to trivialize cases once you have put enough time into your save file. Your Apartment serving as a database for information the player chooses to catalogue would help the gameplay loop IMO.

OFC this Imperfect Memory thing should be a setting too for people who don't want to file every bit of information and keep it in a file box or their computer or something.

Penalties for Dying or Getting Caught doing Illegal Activity - Ties in with Economic Difficulty. Being caught by enforcers or losing all your health from a shotgun or falling 15 stories should be more punishing on the player. Would also like to see the player having the option to enable dying and losing their save. Would compliment an Ironman mode where your game automatically saves, and only 1 File can be made in that world.

Also maybe getting arrested/dying could close all your active cases? Would make it punishing to get caught while having almost completed a job. Would simulate being out of commission for a period of time and the opportunity is lost.

fathom finch
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Hunger and thirst already exist but their only downsides are mainly health regen related. I wouldn't mind if they had a bit of a harder hitting downside.

idk about DEATH or rather passing out, personally don't mind being able to ignore it, but when you actively don't take damage to begin with cause you know how to avoid it, it becomes an irrelevant thing to care about.

Reposted so your stuff is more together :>

umbral nymph
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Appreciate it too x)

sage lynx
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immersion is definitely one of the games strong points and should really be a focus. it goes hand in hand with the gameplay due to the simulated nature of the game. I think having more pressure on the player also fits the games theming of having to work your way up from the bottom, life is meant to be tough

fathom finch
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For food I can see not eating causing more debilitating effects like occasional blur (not too much or too annoying, it'll need to be sweet spotted) to screw with vision or cramps that slow you down on occasion.

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but this stuff only happens when you're at max thirst/hunger.

high night
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If there was ever death, that definitely should be toggleable. It would be a cool optional feature.

fathom finch
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Rent is something I approve of entirely to some extent. It'd have to be implemented after decor mode gets fixed. currently swapping apartments does not throw your stuff into storage and even if you pre-emptively do put it in storage, some stuff gets either hyper glitched out OR just disappears entirely. Once those bugs are fixed I could see rent being a thing so if you're evicted you dont lose all your decor.

umbral nymph
fathom finch
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Dying should be an option after they fix how crime works aswell.

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currently you're only fined if you pass out and get sent to the hospital.

sage lynx
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iron man mode all the way, always a great option to have in games. gives you actual fear that you often lack in video games cause you know nothing bad will really happen

fathom finch
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I also feel the same for multiple difficulty settings

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an economy, combat and case difficulty all separated would be nice.

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combat being damage taken, health regen, etc.
Economy being obvious, how expensive stuff is, payouts being more worth it for harder stuff, etc.
Case being for all the jobs and murders, making them harder to solve and figure out.

high night
# umbral nymph Agreed. Dying and losing your save should be an option for players that want it ...

It would be like a hard-core mode imo. I think it would make gun fights more interesting.

I don't know personally but is there a major difference between wounds from fists to wounds from gun wounds? That could be a determining factor for death, or the type of person you messed with.

Even outside of death, I could see the different weapon types doing different injuries which debuff you in different ways. Making the character rest would be cool as long as they added a faster rewind.

fathom finch
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Only difference between wounds is what they can inflict more commonly

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like blunt weapons tend to bruise you more, bladed tend to bleed, etc.

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I've had a guy kick me and it broke my leg instantly lol.

umbral nymph
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Could have deaths be a % based event. Like getting blasted with a shotgun or falling from 15 stories is 80%+ to die, while getting beat with a stick is much less.

high night
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I like the idea of who attacks you could also increase/decrease it. If you are taken down by a cop then maybe it's greatly reduced. But if you are taken down by a citizen it's middle ground. Then if you are taken down by a murderer or the underground then it's a higher chance to die.

tawny wing
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Hunger and thirst - visual effects (blur, unfocus), maybe sounds (coughing, rumbly stomach) to make stealth more difficult, damage reduction, health reduction, passing out in extreme cases

For death - I really like the idea of "lives" (hospitalisations) you can buy, starting with 1-3 on a fresh save

fathom finch
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ngl, I feel like rng chance to die would feel pretty bad

umbral nymph
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Maybe some sort of health insurance mechanic for more money pressure? Pay weekly for less hospital fees, or skip it if you're that confident.

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And so when you do lose all your HP, it really hurts your wallet.

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More money pressure.

fathom finch
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Think hunger/thirst shouldn't pass out the player

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unless you wana make it so going like 3 days without it does, but I feel just hitting the usual threshold would be fine.

regal temple
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Hunger: player moves slower or has to stop every so often for like 10 seconds
Thirsty: headaches that alter vision for like 10 seconds or something? (think the cold effect with a darkened peripheral (Is that the word?)
I dunno, just throwing words now

umbral nymph
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Not being able to sprint when starving or severely dehydrated would prob be the best way to encourage the player to maintain those needs

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Obviously other debuffs are welcome

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IMO though, the hunger and thirst is like, the smallest part of my suggestion. Let's focus on the other stuff to really let the devs know what we want 😅

high night
# fathom finch ngl, I feel like rng chance to die would feel pretty bad

That's why it would be an optional feature. But I could see a lot of factors increasing it and decreasing the chance to die.

Armored decreases chance to die.
Cops decrease the chance.
Criminals increase the chance.
Fists decrease it.
Knifes slightly increase it.
Bullets increase it depending on how many you take.
Medicine decreases it.
Ect.

umbral nymph
fathom finch
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If you could determine the chances, would be nice.

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so if someone only ever wanted to die if the murderer got them, that'd be nice.

high night
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After selecting a hard-core mode in settings.

fathom finch
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I don't think it'd be hard to add a like [...] box next to the dying chance enabler that lets you alter a bunch of sliders.

high night
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That's what I am saying is having a slider to increase/decrease the base chance of what could factor into the chance of death.

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So you could make it easy for death, difficult, or impossible.

fathom finch
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ye

umbral nymph
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Also, if you survive, depending on the how severe your injuries were(like shotgun, rolling lucky on dying to a killer), maybe simulate more time passage? So even if you don't die, maybe 4-5 days have passed and you haven't made money during that time so rent hits harder.

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Also maybe have some of your cases get closed(could be a %chance) when you wake up in the hospital or get arrested or something. Could simulate being out of commission and having lost the opportunity.

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Even if the case doesn't close, maybe certain evidence gets harder to find because of the time passed. Either way, more incentive to not lose all your HP.

high night
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This could even extend the length of a game. You can risk continuing to work with injuries or rest for them to heal. I like the idea of cases ending due to time as well. That could be a cool optional setting and lower your rep extending the game. That would add a lot to a hard-core mode.

Playing smart will become important and dealing with risk vs reward can impact the game greatly.

umbral nymph
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A time limit to cases would be nice too. Would be better than the idea of having a % of a case being closed on "dying" or arrest.
Maybe impose a harsher penalty for a case expiring or a late cancellation.

high night
gusty niche
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Having multiple murders would be amazing since you have to puzzle together if a case is related to another or if it's just random. What would help with that is multiple murderer types. (since right new everyone is just a serial killer). One off crimes of passion, or robberies gone bad. I guess one way to make it easier on the player (and the AI) with that is that only one serial killer can be active at a time, while X amount of potential one off killings can be going on at once.

Having killings ranging from extremely sloppy to meticulously planned also would help improve the loop and make certain cases naturally easy or harder.

high night
# gusty niche Having multiple murders would be amazing since you have to puzzle together if a ...

I definitely think this would be good. So if you fail jobs they eventually become a named killer like "The Poisoner" (not a serial killer namer) and you can check old leads to see if you can link things together. But most are just one off killers like you said.

In the tutorial the killer targets two people so it would make a lot of sense to add this. Maybe assassins are in the serial killer section? Could call it Professional Killers too.

gusty niche
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I do love the idea of having the assassian killer. Could be cool to also have new bonus objectives show up when you figure out it's a contract killing. Like you find the clue that points to them being a contract killer than 'NEW OBJECTIVE: 'Who hired the killer?' (optional)

signal marten
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A couple days ago I went to sleep before I caught my first stalker type valentines killer and I had a dream I was playing the game (lol) and chasing him but I couldn't find him and then while I was struggling I had a little status message 'I think someone's following me' and woke up dun dun dun

umbral nymph
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Another Economy related change I just thought of. Maybe Syncs should have a maintenance cost? Maybe every week you go to the clinic to maintain it or it becomes inactive. Game really needs some money-sinks and I don't think Rent will solve it by itself.

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This would also allow further balancing of the more impactful Syncs, as they can be given higher upkeep.

gusty niche
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Syncs should also cost money to install... after all you need to go to a professional to do so.

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Except the sugardaddy, that's free to install~

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(Sponsored by Starch Kola)

umbral nymph
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Yeah, a cost to install too. Honestly shocked that's not a thing atm.

high night
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I'd never want to pay a fee for having the disks installed. Though to have it installed sounds cool. I think it only costs to have it removed atm?

gusty niche
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no it's actualy free to remove too

high night
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It might just be the cola ones that costs to remove then.

umbral nymph
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Just anything for more money sinks

high night
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I think having too many would be bad. I'd rather have rent tbh then a money sync for that.

umbral nymph
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If rent can reasonably solve the money issue, then yeah.

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But it might end up being only an issue for the first couple hours or something

gusty niche
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Honestly a small install/uninstall cost would be good.

Having some synd disks actually require a subscription fee is also a fun idea. I could imagine the Dove+ disk needing a subscription to use.

umbral nymph
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And if that's the case, then I think adding more sinks like Sync maintenance could also help and not put the whole burden of fixing the economy issue on rent.

high night
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I think that is why they have the free apartment. I think there should be a free one like in the tutorial and the more expensive ones should cost rent which can lead to eviction.

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Having the sync machines need battery or recharge would feel kinda tedious imo.

gusty niche
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In The Dead of Night does state the free one they give you at the end is basically charity. If they intergrate more things like actually getting phones and computers that do stuff then the cheap housing should have like no phone or internet.

umbral nymph
gusty niche
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No VTube, no phone line, only cold water...

umbral nymph
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I already suggested no internet and no phone service among others for the free basement in the OP 😁

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Maybe have the amount of active cases you can have tied to how many case boards you have in your apartment. And the free basement can only have 2 or 3 max.

high night
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It would be cool if low end places like that had a higher chance of break ins and robbery.

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So like. If you lived in the basement you might find trouble.

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But then less common once you upgrade with security systems

gusty niche
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Honestly a major improvement to the game balance and economy is that certain tools can't just be purchased from City Hall. I get it right now since the game is still in development and there's not many other ways to get your equipment. But in the future the more criminal items should be restricted. (Like code breakers and trackers) Like you have to actually bribe enforcers to get them, break into the armory, or go though the black market.

high night
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Machine definitely feels like a placeholder atm.

umbral nymph
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Yeah that vending machine at City Hall doesn't fit all that great IMO
Having more shop types and locations and stuff could add more jobs and give more roles to potential buildings and locations and stuff too.

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Feel like it wouldn't be all that bad if handcuffs and codebreakers were also a limited(but renewable) resource