Water Beaver Overhaul

[still frigate]

I worry about CPU/GPU hit with the fish.

[radiant arch]

fish

[still frigate]

If they are minimal impact they are cool.

[radiant arch]

they aren't that more heavy than animated buildings i wonder

[still frigate]

An ancient truth™ once shared with me: if you would want something then there are at least 100, 1000, 1000000, or more out there who would want it too.

[still frigate]

Hrm... post cycle 27 the poor drainage is bad enough we loose half the lower map. I only wanted this kind of flooding during bad tides.

Checking if it is my vanity water...

[still frigate]

With everything I have learned after cycle 27 and after "blowing the tank", I should go back into the map editor and make several revisions then start my game over yet again.

[radiant arch]

i might want give it a try after that if can

[still frigate]

This actually inspires me to go work on it rather than add it to the list of abandoned (for now) maps.

To the editor I go...

[still frigate]

This version has not yet been tested, but this link should get you there. It is currently unlisted.

I'll be starting a new WhitePaws game presently to test it out.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3687994082

Looks a little different as a WhitePaws map.

[radiant arch]

whitepaws know what's coming 😅

[still frigate]

The much healthier Oak Everblossom fields on top really change the look from the mostly dead trees up there in past versions.

[radiant arch]

like the cozy, yet foreboding feel of the oak version too

can test my new fish in there too 🤔

[shell fiber]

the building is "fixed" and by that i mean no longer flippable, because only the flipped version has issues

what's the issue ? i only see brambles brambleing 🫡

i don't think there is any script-free way to do that

[still frigate]

The issue is I needed a fence. 😛

I'm happy they behaved that way

[shell fiber]

i'm not super fond of it, but i don't care deeply about it either, if someone feels like making a detailer for whitepaws mod, i'd be fine with it

that's actually an idea 🤔

ooh, tempting...😅

this seems to work now 🙂

also so that it looks less awkward

would need to be a dedicated building, that wouldn't work well with a manufactory

you mean money ? 😅

i have ideas for a last upgrade with giant logs, that woudl maybe push them to 4 tall i's day ?

iirc that thing is mandatory for plants 🤔

[still frigate]

I wasn't talking about removing that tag. I was talking about if using it could make them immune to badwater.

I have a dream of brambles that can traverse elevation and thrive in bad water too.

Luke once had plants spreading vertically, in U7.

[cloud flax]

Shouldn't they be different end's or is it just flippable building

[still frigate]

This new version makes droughts and bad tide both flood you.

[radiant heart]

Noice, skipping the beavers this evening sadly, TCG tournament update is out and want to give that a try

[radiant heart]

Middle peice plz?

[wary panther]

I was thinking of the detailer consuming artwork stencils (like it consumes extract), and the artist's lodge producing those instead of (or in addition to) comic books...

one of the things I really like in the whitepaws is how many of the production chains end in something that is endlessly consumed, so you don't just get giant stockpiles of everything and be done

[wary panther]

Yeah, I was just whining because I had finally figured out how to tetris a useful dam together and now it's drain valve was flipped over against a rock face. So no water for the valley below after all...

of course, having it crash isn't actually better

[wary panther]

Just the frustrated grunt-whine of poor beavers condemned to hear the splash of moving water while their instincts scream "dam that up!"

[still frigate]

I haven't tried this map with WhitePaws yet. In fact, the last time I played it zip lines were new. I am bringing it to attention because of a great loss. A factorio streamer I was very fond of was also the person who got me into Timberborn. She made this map. Her name was Katherine of Sky. And we just lost her. 😭

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3432424941

[still frigate]

Doesn't feel right messing with this to make sure it will work.

[wary panther]

I don't think the lack of new 1.0 stuff (geothermal vents, aquifers, unstable cores, reserve pile/tank/etc) is going to be game-breaking, the way some of the previous updates were (big parts of the tech tree cut off if you didn't have badwater, scrap metal, etc)

[still frigate]

5 overhangs were invalid and deleted.

[cloud flax]

Nooooo!!! I watched her play throughs tooooo. 😭😭😭

That's a sad news to wake up to...

[still frigate]

At least I got the news before the 20th in my time zone.

[still frigate]

They were victims of the Everblossoms.

Looks good for a WhitePaws start. Pine is a bit sparse and mixed up with brambles. Had worse starts.

[still frigate]

The underground ruin by her signature wont be usable but the other 3 look good.

Can't concentrate on the game. Also, not sure how much I'll be on tomorrow. My birthdays are very hit and miss emotionally.

[cloud flax]

Oh my! Hope you have wonderful time!!!! Wishing you the best for your birthday 🎉

[sullen cape]

Take care! "Happy" Birthday 🫡

[radiant arch]

"Happy" Birthday and a blessed new year! 🎉

[shell fiber]

that seems like a very gentle map, are you sure you're going to be okay 😅

[shell fiber]

well "happy" birthday then 😊

[cloud flax]

@shell fiber was asking if they are the same side ends and not the left end and right end

[shell fiber]

Well the problem is that for the normal piece the left and right ends are the same but rotated, if you do that with the sensor it ends up being facing inside the dam

[cloud flax]

So can they be flipped?

[shell fiber]

(sorry I don't have the computer right now)
Not sure, I don't think the building would allow that conveniently, in which case I'll maybe have to scrap the whole design 🤔

[shell fiber]

hmm... i think i can do it, if i rearrage the building to that the flip axis is different, it should work 🤔

ah, no crap, it would conflict with the pump's pipe 🤔

[cloud flax]

Or you can just change one of them to be the other end?

Oh rip

[radiant heart]

Random question, those random things on the map like the bomb and whatnot, could the mod relink them to not start the timer before X amount of power is produced or ??? i feel like sadly mapmakers will not have the WB in mind when doing those shennanigans and it will limit the options for all of WB enjoyers round her. ( just curious )

[sullen cape]

😇

[heavy lodge]

You can try this : #1379728375396040806 message 😜 🤣

[radiant arch]

would it help to have a small mod just double all timers?
this way it could be used only on maps that not been made for whitepaws?

maps only timing for fast levee access and few cycles is a trouble for sure

making something generic fit-all would seem tricky though and i lack time to play lots to come up with ideas

[heavy lodge]

Levee on WhitePaws ❓ It is only 1 high and can only be placed on ground, so ... , badtide diversion = more impermeable houses to build 😅

[woeful sun]

Maybe make the multiplier configurable? (adding a Spec for it should be easy), but keep the same multiplier for all sources (to keep it simple).

[radiant arch]

question would be if x-times multiplier was fine?
or if it needed some progress interaction to give it some offset, but keep map timing same afterwards (total research, power generated or certain building unlocked)

for example could go with "has-build-district-center" for whitepaws

and just pause all triggers till that?

[heavy lodge]

The multiplier must be for cycles. However, not sure what multiplier would be needed for Pressure map 🤔

[radiant heart]

idk, just spitballing

[thorn dune]

levee rushing is easier with WB usually due to the houses. aquifers, power, and tricky stairs are harder.

[eternal tulip]

When i load the game with Whitepaws 1.0. the game crashes.

when i untick Whitepaws the game loads to start menu...

im not sure what mod i have that might be causing a conflict.

[radiant arch]

hard to tell which caused the crash here, given how many mods might collide / i not know

whitepaws is a little special - it can't load when any other faction is added (leafcoats, emberpelts, greedy*) for example

some of the mods that only work for those might conflict too. some might just not do anything

[eternal tulip]

thats a shame. i was looking forward to a mixed faction with all beavers 🙁

[radiant arch]

from the report whitepaws enables a building that uses an old illumination spec. not sure this is whitepaws itself (i can run this version) or some mod that wasn't updated recently

likely something broken in one of these: zxuiji -m- TNF Collections, zxuiji -m- Template Name Fixes, zxuiji -m- More Flags so maybe zxuiji would know more

[frigid mango]

grauschweif_02292 has been warned

Reason: Posted an invite

[radiant arch]

i believe he had a distinct discord for greedy* faction issues. there's a greedy builders thread in #1064825134348763209 with a link

[eternal tulip]

the game does load with Emberpelts & leaf cote. its just whitepaws that has the greedy.. this is causing the conflict somewhere...

[shell fiber]

seems like a beaver problem to me 🫡

also, WIP but that should be the idea

(same height as the grand dam)

but tbh, is the grand dam that nice ? i made the model because i thought it would be neat, but gameplay-wise... not sure it's really great

[radiant arch]

it looks impressive for sure

imho not very practical or serving any need otherwise / somehow awkward to place. yet i always make some of them

[radiant arch]

these would enhance it lots too

[still frigate]

Visually, I like that grand dam. However, the grand dam is so picky about where it can and can't be placed that it is impractical on many maps in many scenarios. One often needs much more landscaping than can be reasonably be done. The dam idea above will help.

Also, imo, the Grand Dam adds too much housing. For that matter so does the gargantuan liquid storage. Your tutorial and comments helped me adjust to the ideas of non-housing water storage, but at the end-game level it becomes nearly impossible to balance population growth with adding adequate liquid storage and water pumping.

I love both pieces but using them is so population problematic.

Currently, nothing stores more than the medium tank without adding large amounts of beavers (30), which potentially means more tanks needed to provide for a drought. Then one needs to be able to provide water for those tanks with the grand dam adding 12 beavers each.

I have NOT done the exact math, however.

This is not yet enough water production and storage to provide for a colony of about 180 through a standard difficulty drought.

Dams help, but the water they capture is easy to corrupt and pumping enough of it in a drought can be tricky.

The solution, of course, it a deep reservoir high enough to not be polluted and fed by water canons. That can be a trick to make in and of itself.

[radiant arch]

beside advancing technology i try to aim to reach this. having a abyss reactor is big too

[still frigate]

Yeah but it takes a long time to get to said reactor.

[radiant arch]

like it's no real water beaver run without a big old dam of pure clean water, isnt it?

[radiant arch]

true. game is essentially over by this point 🙂

[still frigate]

Perhaps it is a skill issue with me. I need to work on dam designs that don't add hundreds of beavers. That new dam piece will really help.

[radiant arch]

maybe it's much about timing and will to refactor big part of settlement too

it's kinda difficult for sure to make that one big dam

i usually go at them at the industrial stage, when adding multiple huge things like foundry, advanced sawmill, GMOs and so. they make big walls quick

centralising pumps is a part too

[still frigate]

GMOs are no more efficient than 2x3x2 storage save for not need a platform row to support dams on top of them.

[radiant arch]

the difference is: you need a few GMOs at some stage

so they are good for dam-making at that time

[still frigate]

Yes and I love GMOs, but one has to live long enough to have the ENS to make the degrees for them.

Once you have an adequate reservoir, how do you pump enough water out of it for the huge population you will have by then?

[radiant arch]

pumps increase efficiency with well-being

than can put pumps at bottom and top if reservoir is deep

[still frigate]

Given, but you are one disaster away from a death spiral relying of wellbeing.

Bottom pumps are limited to the basic model though. That's a lot of pumps needed once the water falls below the reach of the good pumps up high.

The new valve house can't be automated and it doesn't react to water depth. That is a big issue.

[radiant arch]

tbh i never yet had any issue with pumps after mid-game

they kinda been plenty strong always

same with well-being: half is fixed, half is food (which can be stockpiled)

[still frigate]

I'm getting better at well-being but it is a weak area for me.

[radiant arch]

might be a benefit of me playing small maps, that it needs very few area effect sources + limit on head-counts allover too

[still frigate]

The mod is meant to be dam hard. I take the water balancing as part of this challenge.

[still frigate]

I just thought of the "perfect" cap piece for the P&L lodges. 3x3x1 with 4 side doors, access to the ladder below, but no roof access. Then dams or even other buildings could be built on top of it.

[radiant arch]

the utility dam didn't fit it?

[still frigate]

I don't think it worked... just a sec...

Okay, I am a derp. It does work. I could have sworn it didn't.

Nearly perfect cap already exists then.

[radiant arch]

nice! not expected it either tbh haha

[still frigate]

Because I can't automate these and because I am so absentminded I had to reload TWICE to get theses switched over and protect my colony from the bad tide.

@radiant arch Our discussion above inspired a new reservouir idea for me. Probably gonna be much more in line with @shell fiber's vision too. Plus, when I have grand dams, I'll expand it to use them for some lower level pumping.

I'm using triple lodges for my 2x3x2 building since they hold 6 beavers and make 5 of them haulers, and I never seem to have enough haulers!

[radiant arch]

i wonder if the ready pumps aren't too strong for twice the reservoir already?

[still frigate]

Not sure yet. Wont know until I get a lot of water storage down here and survive a drought from here without the stuff on top.

Dynamite will expand the reservoir a lot once I have enough of it and I have the sides built up.

Potential future reservoir!

I'm gonna work on moving all my screw presses, saw mills and powered papermaker over here. Then I should be about ready for workshops and then assembly lines.

[radiant arch]

now it makes perfect sense!

[still frigate]

This is a 256x256 map so there is ungodly amounts of room for stuff like this. And if I can keep my population low enough my computer can handle it.

So far it still screams at 30x with around 250 beavers.

Okay, screams in an exaggeration. But for 30x, I'll take it.

3x is 65/35

[radiant arch]

that's what i get when i downscale and run 3x speed on a 128x128 map..

[still frigate]

It is all population based. If I could handle the population I wouldn't care so much about balance and I'd let there be 500 unemployed beavers out of 2,000.

[shell fiber]

Speaking of dams and reservoirs, maybe I'll remove (devlock) the grand dam once the dam upgrades MK3 are out

(they will likely inherit the blueprint)

[still frigate]

Please don't. It pumps so much water and that is needed!

[shell fiber]

Really ? 🤔
I mean it does but it's it really vital ?

[still frigate]

Yes, unless you bring back the oversized water pumps. Plus they look cool!

Nerf their housing capabilities a bit and I'll build them like crazy. 🙂

Imagine a row of grand dams here with everything built up on top of them! Sure, I'd need some serious terraforming on the right, but it would be sooooo worth it.

I need 11 spaces from the existing for them.I'm already laying it out...

Sure, there will be some blasting and some checkerboard dirt placement, but it will be glorious!

@shell fiber is -any- of the storages waterproof?

And what about the library? Can it be used in a dam? Looks like yes, but not sure.

Well... in time I can answer these myself I guess. 😛

[still frigate]

So... I'll be able to get 3 grand dams in here without blasting. I still have to figure out how much of those platforms need to be on dirt vs what can be on platforms or levees.

[radiant arch]

the grand dam must have dirt under the screw part and the pillars iirc
building itself can be on platforms

but best try it 🙂

[still frigate]

Here is the required pattern.

[radiant arch]

you basically need to make solid floors for anything beyond the dam though

[still frigate]

Well, except for the very end which is alrady dirt...

[radiant arch]

oh, why not levee some?

[still frigate]

That was just a layout test.

I'm not sure what can go on a leeve yet.

[radiant arch]

the right part can be platforms, can't it?

[still frigate]

I'll check.

[radiant arch]

levee is waterproof, so can use it for tiles where you not build dam on

to skip making dirt block

[still frigate]

Let me do one over nearly all platforms and post again.

[radiant arch]

i did soooo many of those for the anthill map haha

little WIP on the fish spawn point (need this done by tomorrow to work on seasons!)

[still frigate]

Wow!

So the bright green is the building footprint. Now to see how much of that has to be dirt...

[radiant arch]

the right part is optional irrc
not sure about the three on the left, where it hovers over the ground

can make much of the red ones levee too here

if that's cheaper than making dirtblocks (needs platforms under with levee)

[still frigate]

I'm not as worried about how I am going to build it as what -has- to be dirt. 🙂

Theoretically, if it doesn't have to be dirt it can be platform right?

[radiant arch]

water will flow through, so left side has to be waterproof

otherwise, yes

[still frigate]

Yeah, -can- not should. 😛

These 25 -have- to be dirt.

[radiant arch]

those two behind the dam are surprising

[still frigate]

Yeah, but I tried not to.

[radiant arch]

looks like it will be slow to get done

[still frigate]

Sub-level and below:

foundation:

These last two are specific to my circumstances.

[radiant arch]

could use more levee?

[still frigate]

Not really. Because the need dirt under them

[radiant arch]

hmm, that's unhelpful here..

kinda making it pointless to use the even..

[still frigate]

So rather than dirt with a levee on top I just do floating dirt.

Yeah, that is what i was thinking.

[radiant arch]

i kinda remembered they not needed that anymore. so much for my memory haha

[still frigate]

So, again in this specific place, here is what works best as dirt. (plus a little bit more the next one over.)

The next one over is just above ground so I can use 3 levees.

And, of course, I laid it all out with the dirt oriented wrong. /laughs

[radiant arch]

always just happens this way haha

at least you noticed before a couple of cycles passed !

(i so often did not^^)

[still frigate]

Gonna be many cycles before I will be able to start building the dirt parts of this, but I will have it all laid out. Oh, one more "something" one level up to block the gear hole.

Nope nope nope! All wrong! I didn't have and outside. Everything moves 2 blocks to my left. Well, that will be much less dirt.

25 dirt total, no levees. And that gets two of them!

[radiant arch]

the last lodge isn't needed either, is it?

[still frigate]

Probably not.

[radiant arch]

i can't remember if they could spill there

what about the floor?

[still frigate]

Yes, it is to block the power hole.

[radiant arch]

why block that? aesthetics?

[still frigate]

Good point. I was thinking about water entering through it, but all this is above water line.

[radiant arch]

as long as the entrance not floods they are pretty much safe either way

[radiant arch]

if they even are floodable anymore 🤔

[still frigate]

They are!

[radiant arch]

oh, that looks nice!

upgrade for the upgrade?

awesome!

[still frigate]

I had sorta begged for one.

[shell fiber]

don't whip yourself too much, i had plans for that a million years ago, just never went ahead and did it

damn... 28/03/2023...

the image date

[still frigate]

Nice

[shell fiber]

that's 3 years ago, i thought i've only been hacking at this for two years 😅😅

[still frigate]

7 days short of 3 years. 😛

[radiant arch]

almost a full season early haha

[still frigate]

I wont even have to blast much for the 3rd one.

But if I want a 4th...!

[radiant arch]

you can build dirt blocks on them

[still frigate]

Yes. That is very nice. But I'll probably put building on them.

[radiant arch]

oh.. makes me wonder: do they overflow below that?

visually it's not clear if there's a gap right below the platform?

[still frigate]

There is not.

At least last time I tested them.

[radiant arch]

oh, huge dams, yes. i meant the the new ones lapan just shared

they might be just short of stackable?

[still frigate]

Oh! I really hope that is solid and impermeable.

I have a drought comming. I have turn off my upper water pump and will try to run on this this reservoir anbd what water I have stockpiled.

[hearty swan]

hi Is the faction available in version 1.0? I don't see it on Steam.

[still frigate]

sort by most recently updated.

[radiant arch]

whitepaws 1.0 on steam

[shell fiber]

they have a gap under the platform, effectively they go up to 4.65 if i didn't mess up anything

[still frigate]

Cool

[shell fiber]

those have always been intended as having limited stackability

[still frigate]

Makes sense.

[shell fiber]

anyway, enough for today, gotta go to bed

GN !

[still frigate]

gn my friend.

[radiant arch]

good night

[still frigate]

I should dynamite this one more level down so the water pumps can't take the bath water too.

[woeful sun]

I usually just link to #1283726435730591798 message. I have no idea how I could post that without triggering Timberbot.

[radiant arch]

i learned about that today haha

[hearty swan]

Isn't there an automation component with the faction?

[still frigate]

Not the new automation. You can use Igor's automation with most of it until Lapan has the new automation done.

[still frigate]

Let it be known that the library is not at all usable as part of a dam. Water goes right through it.

[still frigate]

I posted this in the Timberborn section of Katherine of Sky's discord and let people there know that her map does function with 1.0 despite the warning.

[still frigate]

It was once a nice industrial reservoir. 🤣

All of this is rubble around there.

[radiant arch]

that's one big pile

would be fun if water would turn liquid any time a building was demolished with it in, wouldn't it?

(the tea too!)

[still frigate]

It's a mess... but I was getting too frustrated trying to expand it with all the existing stuff in the way and inter-mingled... so I made a bunch of beavers homeless and got rid of cycles and cycles worth of buildings. /laughs

[still frigate]

And the nitro?

[radiant arch]

thinking about that. but it would be useless, all watered down..

at best it could explode right there?

[still frigate]

Watering down old crystalized dynamite is one of the ways of stabilizing it and making the area safe. (My mom's dad was a mining engineer and when he passed we had to deal with some crystalized dynamite older than me!)

The German part of the family that settled here were silver miners. I actually have miners on both my mom and dad's side. My dad had worked in the mines about 3/4 of the way through my childhood.

Rebuild the terraces lower so the beavers can get a nice view of the rushing liquids below. 😛

[ivory fractal]

Please don't. The MK3 dam looks great, but it's still just a .65 water level dam. The Grand Dam is a full wall that is perfect as the foundation of an even taller tank. The pump function is also needed. One grand dam will replace 10 basic pumps, actually more because beavers have to eat, drink and sleep.
Although it is difficult to find a place where it can be used, but if it succeeds, it is a very nice building. It would be a shame to lose it. As for the blueprint, you probably don't want to add another item (blueprint), but the solution could be for the grand dam to require two blueprints. For example, new MK3 dam and aquifer pump.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Found the issue why at the beginning the birthrate seems so slow.
All of your actual houses (Not workplaces with housing) don't contain "ProcreationHouseSpec": {},
So, If I only have pit & ladder lodge no new beavers are born when all other workplace housing is full.

Fix: Added "ProcreationHouseSpec": {}, manually in the housing specs json. New beavers are getting born now.

So, If a house dosent have "ProcreationHouseSpec": {}, added to it beavers don't procreate in those houses.

[still frigate]

Y'all have any clue how long it yook me to find this??? None of my tool finder search terms were finding it because I was looking for the wrong name.

In the end I started at science and recursively walked the bottom buttons.

I know, not anyone's fault I'm braindead today.

[radiant arch]

oh, i have trouble with that change too

it's odd it's only there. would make sense under either advanced buildings or farming or science?

[shell fiber]

Okay that's weird, I was pretty sure they all had it, not sure how that happened. Do you have a list of the buildings that are missing "procreation house ?"

[livid zephyr]

i always struggle with the florist myself lol

[shell fiber]

I don't think it's called by the tutorial so it could indeed also be under the science tab 🤔

[shell fiber]

Ah, it's in gathering instead of just food right ?

I'll probably fix it as I dissolve the flag group 🤔

[still frigate]

I have finished rebuilding my industrial reservoir. Now I am finally adding new stuff to it.

[cloud flax]

Aaah i had placed there cuz it's the primary building that uses tons of bad water 😅

There's no more adv industries tab so that felt the most appropriate....

[radiant arch]

is best! just hard to remember it's there too, since it's no pump and badwater hidden already. so duplicate with science really would be cool

[cloud flax]

Oh true. We can have it at more than 1 place now

[nova crescent]

All buildings under housing folder.

[wary panther]

Is there no longer a way to pass power through a dam? I think I recall that the old pass-through lodge (or maybe the old valuce house that required power?) had connections on both sides and could pass through...

Is that gone, or am I just no looking in the right place(s)?

[still frigate]

One of the 3x3 dams passes people through One direction power through the other.

If you're desperate and any building, will do, the big badwater pump has a power pass-through.

[wary panther]

Thanks. I think the big badwater pump is the one I was remembering from a previous run

[still frigate]

I miss that one.

[wary panther]

? It still exists, I just wasn't thinking of it

(and it it's 700 scient points, wold be kind of wasted using it on a non-badwater dam just to pass power, plus IIRC you can't stack anything over its intake. So it's not all that usable as a power pass-through

[still frigate]

My mind failed. I know the big bad water pump still exists because I built 2 of them today. What is miss was the old powered pump.

[still frigate]

The big one you can, the medium one you can't.

[wary panther]

yeah, it got ||devmode|| exiled

it's funny, the water beavers are so good at industry, and so bad at water

I guess they are pink ironteeth 🙂

[still frigate]

Starting low and working up...

• I have a large badwater pump
• a handcrafter plus platforms
• a second large badwater pump
• a 2x3x2 hauler lodge.

On some maps I have 4 or 5 large pumps with stuff between them.

@shell fiber @radiant arch Bananas are kept in range of tree farm and harvesting nicely. 🙂

I really like what all I have done here, but I am yearning to return to my own map and get back to testing it.

[shell fiber]

okay, fixed that. really baffling how an entire folder could have lost that property, maybe an error in some mass-replace when updating game versions 🤔

[shell fiber]

I just dissolved the flag group, I'll try to duplicate the firefly grooming station to the science group (as well as the whole abyss group, it's science-y enough)

Although not sure if that will work since it's a base game group 🤔

[shell fiber]

that should be good for the models

also, the nice part is that since those parts goes on the outer rim of the dam, i don't need to make a real "corner piece"

[shell fiber]

to clarify on this : what was icking me is that the building is very "mechanical" and yet it was under an architect blueprint, but i couldn't just toss it to the mechanic witout unbalancing things.

but now that i have the primitive dams MK3 about ready, what i'll do is rename things so the blueprint is more about giant log dams, but is also used by the grand dam. and to give an excuse to the building being that mechanical, i'll make it cost a mechanical controller while i'm at it.

and i'll see if i can simplify the placement a little bit

as you can see, the main issue (which is definitely my fault since i designed this monstrosity) kind of needs to be hidden by ground

but the giant logs can now rest on whatever stackable thing you prefer

[shell fiber]

i have to say, i like how it looks 😊

[cloud flax]

It does look niceee

[shell fiber]

dear f$µ%ing god, the corner piece occupancy was litteral hell to make

but i think this time i got it

works with the utility dam as a base

the icons

[cloud flax]

Hope these sturdy structure require metal beams atleast, or are they finally gonna be treated planks 👀

[radiant arch]

3 / 5 giant logs from the looks?

[shell fiber]

didn't i remove treated planks entirely ?

[shell fiber]

2/3/5 yes

and no, no metal beams required

a crapton of ressources and a few giants logs though

and a blueprint

[still frigate]

I can't wait to play with this!

[shell fiber]

just gave a pumpkinchips reciepe to the CWKitchen

[cloud flax]

Hmmmm... The normal cooking tent felt fast enough as is i believe but won't complain about making it more easy :P

[still frigate]

Thank you so much for this

[shell fiber]

it's more of an excuse to allow getting rid of those tents, although they could actually be serviced by haulers without bio beavers i believe

the reciepe is a tiny bit more efficient, and twice faster

[still frigate]

I have wanted this for some time.

[cloud flax]

Damn my phone at 7% and still got like an hour of journey left ahead 😞

[shell fiber]

quick question : there's no way to directly trade for glass is it ?

only solar cells ?

[still frigate]

Clarification question: You put it to the clockwork kitchen instead of the industrial kitchen?

[shell fiber]

clockwork kitchen

[still frigate]

Correct. Which makes my bevers sad. 😛

[shell fiber]

damn, i have ZERO idea what i should make the sensors cost 😓

[heavy lodge]

anything but clay 😜

[shell fiber]

soo... tar and hooman meat is fine ?🤣

[still frigate]

Automation parts in the main game are very cheap but behind science. Igor's automation is free.

[shell fiber]

for the sake of argument, an "acceptable" option can be to trade for "sensors" or "electronics" with the AmpEars and call it a day

i'd like to make a "civil servant training" diploma in the library, but realistically the sensors are completely autonomous, so that's not great 😓

[still frigate]

Plus the sensors should be available before ther ENS, I would say.

[heavy lodge]

You could make science points trade, maybe with IT (that's in case that dev's will decide that running a sensor will cost science points) 🤔

[still frigate]

Unless the library can grant an associate degree in applied electronics. (I nearly had one of those IRL while I was working on my BA)

But not one for every part. Just making a good bad water gate took me something like 6 relays 2 weather sensors, a depth sensor, and some other stuff.

@shell fiber

Here is where I was talking about sensors when they released: #1070709592176197642 message

[heavy lodge]

adding just a memory controller will save all the relays...

[still frigate]

Remember the IT tower for their robots? Imagine needing one of those for the sensors. Sensors range would be expanded by more towers, and the towers could each require an AAS degree from the Library.

@radiant arch Bad tide on this version of the map is a little more interesting. There is a higher ratio of good to bad, but it -should- also continue to be partially contaminated for several days after the event.

I am aiming for less plant effects without reducing the beaver collateral damages so much. "Let the trees survive but the beavers get sick" is what I am hoping for.

[radiant arch]

those colours really get me!

[shell fiber]

hmm... there is no provision for that. as far as i could tell, all sensors have unlimited range

[still frigate]

Okay. I was just looking for something not too evil, but enough to make you happy. 🙂

[shell fiber]

are you sure you didn't severely overcomplicate it ? i guess you'd want a pollution sensor, a not gate, and feed the positive input one way, the negative input the other way, and that's all good ?

that said, i didn't actually try it, so maybe

[still frigate]

@radiant arch This is still the day after bad tide ended. Before nightfall all of the bad water is gone from the crop areas. Alas, there was more crop damage than I was wanting... but not nearly as bad as it was in the previous version.

The back side still took a pretty big hit and the future lily & rice fields are flooded and contaminated.

I tossed in a stream gauge just for testing it. 36% is enough to stop farming work, but shouldn't kill plants in there, I don't think.

[still frigate]

It was "advanced" so it also deals with potential overflow. That added to the complexity. I have a simpler one I discussed later.

unrelated: Do domesticated brambles survive bad water better than wild ones?

[shell fiber]

no, there is no script that allow to touch any of that 😓
i really wanted to make plants that thrive in bad water 🤐

[still frigate]

I would have loved that!

[radiant arch]

what should they be like?
just invert the behaviour to consider "contamination = healthy / irrigation" and "moisture = poison" ?
or require both, moisture + contamination?

[still frigate]

I would say they should thrive in both

The ultimate survivor.

[radiant arch]

so just be tolerant about contamination? (or should it boost growth?)

[still frigate]

-I- would make it boost growth, but either would be okay.

[shell fiber]

tolerating is good enough

they already grow ridiculously fast

[radiant arch]

so just about ignoring the contamination and nothing else.. hmm

that might be fairly straight forward still

[heavy lodge]

Imagine if will have also vertical spreading 🤣

[still frigate]

We were discuss this a few days ago.

[radiant arch]

i'm feeling this might be fun to the badfurs.. a plant that goes crazy in contamination, spreads and is as hard to kill as those thorns?

[heavy lodge]

and ? I like the idea 😍

[shell fiber]

to be fair, i think every plant should be able to spread vertically, possibly diagonally too

[shell fiber]

new faction ?

[still frigate]

It is just in planning stages.

[heavy lodge]

Then , talk to @ionic swift to bring back this function in his mod

[radiant arch]

https://discord.com/channels/558398674389172225/1478893001949446246 someone is working on it

[radiant arch]

or let me steal it to put in the script pack (= no extra settings)

[still frigate]

Luke is generous. He might.

[radiant arch]

plus can put it on some plants only

[heavy lodge]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3396202044&searchtext=configurable

[still frigate]

That is the one were were talking about. For some reason Luke didn't port that part into 1.0.

[heavy lodge]

I tried to convince him. Maybe if will be more to demande-it ...

[shell fiber]

wasn't there something really important that needed fixing that i'm forgetting ?

i fixed the procreation house issue

[heavy lodge]

then, you will need to make ASAP the population counter available, or will end with half of beavers not having where to live.

[shell fiber]

no adult beavers can sleep in child beds

that will just make every third bed allow to spaw kits

also, i don't know if i should add the population counter 🤔

[still frigate]

I am scanning my posts... damn I chatter a lot.

[heavy lodge]

yeah, it shouldn't, but on my Living at Workplace mod, with 200 beds available, I have 400 + beavers 😭

for some reasons, game don't like to have both worplaces and dwelling in the same building

[shell fiber]

you probably have some blinking beavers due to entry slot filled by workers while someone is trying to sleep or somehting

[still frigate]

I have gone back to 3/13 and I believe you have covered all the stuff I mentioned.

[heavy lodge]

almost wanted to ask eMka to make Second Shift available for beds 🤣

[still frigate]

Upgrading...

[radiant arch]

this beauty will change the game forever

[shell fiber]

hopefully it doesn't make it too easy 😅

[still frigate]

Perish the thought!

[livid zephyr]

Looking forward to seeing the changes when I get home

[shell fiber]

oh, here's an idea !

you can get hooman relics from the balloons right ?

and well, arguably, those could be electronic trinkets used for sensors 🤔

[livid zephyr]

Having those as ingredients would keep them locked away for a while no doubt. Plus I don't think I ever felt a need to trade for those

[shell fiber]

oh, crap, trading for relics require nuclear fuel 😅

[livid zephyr]

Lol...

Might be why I never felt a need to trade for them before... already have the mine up and running lol

[shell fiber]

hmm... i'm leaning more and more toward electronic trade with the AmpEars

also because that pushes the player toward trading solar pannels

[cloud flax]

So 1 idea I had was to have couple of housing buildings of 2x2, 3x3(P&l version) on which you can place the upgrade modules.

These buildings can either use science like the iron teeth towers or they can consume brain boosting salts and glowing fluid (glowing fluid may be toooo late game though)

Glowing fluid just cuz of the lights

And the upgrade modules can be 1x1 sensors of different types (pop counter, res counter, science counter etc)

Except ofc for the depth and contamination

[shell fiber]

grumpf... i can't find my blender file with all of the displayable items 3D models

might jsut put a new one together, probably faster

anyway, gotta go

see you tomorrow, have fun with the new dams

[livid zephyr]

Don't worry, you'll find it when you go to save the new one once it's done

[still frigate]

By the 3rd bad tide the damage was just as severe, if not more so than the previous version of this map. Ah well. Not worth fussing over too much... that is why there is a large upper level.

[shell fiber]

That's the magic formula to find lost items 😅

[shell fiber]

I've been shaking ideas in my head like an iphone in a blender, but every idea I get ends up being worse than just trading a sensor and be done with it.

Basically I'm trying to find a plausible explanation to what the big light-up sensor things should be made of. It could be paper or oiled paper but visually that's not obvious, and it can't be glass because that waaaay too far off.

And if I make a new item like crappy glass or quartz pane or whatever, I'm not any better off than just the sensor option 😑

[still frigate]

If you avoid making the relays need them, I think the balance should be okay. We can always try it and report back how it goes.

Oooh! What about making them need quartz?

Old pocket watches had faces made from cut quartz... about 2 mm thick.

[shell fiber]

That's one of the ideas but that doesn't seem super believable to me 🤔

Maybe it I edit the texture...

Hmm... Maybe that's a plan 🤔

[still frigate]

The new flag placement is so natural I almost didn't notice.

[shell fiber]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTd3OoLzFGsKons2vy3mvhCN-m_-j6aRSREZ_KAxkdQng&s=10

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSr6zk3BoEf0aLcRvBMt0VdR6sOTRFht_jUHqFvsj2VXQ&s=10

Maybe one of these texture would do 🤔

[still frigate]

So long as the ligths remain colorable, they are both nice.

I do like the detail in the top one a bit more.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Have you noticed whether or not I properly keep White Paw lore in my discussions. I made the mistake of watching a popular streamer who totally ignores aspects of the lore or flat out gets them wrong and it was driving me crazy. For two different games!

[radiant arch]

@still frigate wow. just started your map. amazing. so excited for what it will throw at me (and those poor beavers stupid brave enough to follow the cart)

question: will water seeps stop during badtides? or turn bad too?

[still frigate]

seeps go bad.

[radiant arch]

fake dirt blocks miss .PluralDisplayName used for storage

[still frigate]

@radiant arch the only totally safe water source in vanilla is the aquifer. It shuts down in droughts and bad tide, but at least it doesn't get corrupted.

I put two of them on the map if you can get creative on getting power to them and keeping their water safe. 😉

[radiant arch]

i did notice haha

very easy to access too!

little annoyed with the small tanks tutorial. too bad i can't skip (got 3 extra pit tanks already)

[still frigate]

Make them then destroy them.

[radiant arch]

still a waste of logs.. given your map not really offers much space early on..

[still frigate]

True. Though there are decent pockets of space.

Your repelling cranes are invaluable here.

[radiant arch]

drought is fun 🙃
my berries wont go strong, will they?

[radiant arch]

for accessing all your many tunnels too. so much easier to get levees in or later those automatable dams

[still frigate]

I have one good patch of berries remining after floods and bad tides.

And this tiny one.

[radiant arch]

there's exactly those two tiles with any outflow, isn't there?
and all else is drains that fail during drought?

[still frigate]

Yep. Until you blast the undercaverns.

But who is gonna expect severe flooding every drought? 😉

I made my dams too close to the lake above them and had to rip them out and pull them back 1.

[still frigate]

Well... no point daming this side unless blocking off this section as well. :/

well... that's not enough either. I jumped into ||dev mode|| to see what could be done and the lower elevations of the main side are a total loss in bad tide.

However, it does look like that back side can be saved.

note: My tests do not include attempts to block bad drains.

Survival not guaranteed for me.

[still frigate]

Oh the irony! The dams that saved this side from bad tide do not save it from drought flooding.

[ionic swift]

that's a no. that function caused me so much pain

[still frigate]

Did you see the other option? Would you allow @radiant arch to copy that code and attempt to make it work?

[ionic swift]

sure, I don't see why not. all my mods' code are freely available on GitHub

[still frigate]

It was only right to ask rather than just do.

And thank you.

[livid zephyr]

yup, thats gonna look way beter!

like that its another upgrade on top of existing dams and not stand alone things

dropped that dam system down to 6 inhabitants from 21

fantastic

[livid zephyr]

also, abyss showing up in 2 locations. intentional?

[cloud flax]

Yeppp

[wary panther]

I think the Artists and Architects are feuding over what constitutes a tastefully elegant amount of staircases and decorative lanterns:

[still frigate]

Instant reincarnation?

[livid zephyr]

he recharged

[still frigate]

@radiant arch Think twice about blowing the under caverns before cycle 27. I thought it might be okay this time. And it sort of is... except I didn't have adequate water reserves to last while the system rebalanced.

[shell fiber]

a little bit, not sure how intentionnal that was 😊

[shell fiber]

which streamer ? i didn't find many playing this faction

[shell fiber]

are you sure ? this one ?

[shell fiber]

hhmmm... meh

need to retouch it

[still frigate]

They weren't playing this faction. But they did keep calling bad water "poo water" and that infuriates me.

I am sure some people in other areas of this discord do it simply because they know it gets to me. 😛

[shell fiber]

ahah, yeah to be honest i've never been big on this kind of humor, even back in junior high school. but i can tolerate it at low doses

[woeful sun]

Only 2 I know of that do that RCE and Glynabyte

and I only know of JC that's played this faction (and RCE a long time ago, maybe update 4?). Let me know if you know of any others.

[shell fiber]

Eld games also played it a couple of times

[shell fiber]

hmm... trying to make it more like a quartz pane is difficult...

i made an outline of the crystals to enhance contrast (couldn't figure out a smarter way to do it)

didn't change much, so i'm trying a darker thicker line

oh, progress

now the dark lines are way too thick on the unlit side though

[radiant arch]

for english localisation:

No localization for Need.Rocket.DeathMessage
No localization for Lapantouflemagic.SevereInjury.DeathMessage
No localization for Good.LyophilizedArtificialNaturalDirtBlock.DisplayName
No localization for Good.LyophilizedArtificialNaturalDirtBlock.PluralDisplayName

[still frigate]

Almost gives it a stained glass look unlit.

[radiant arch]

sorry, just seeing it was 6.2.3 still. only got the 6.2.5 update now (..).

it works now

[radiant arch]

is there a reason to have "Shafts" and "Power Shafts" groups?

[still frigate]

I hit that. You need to disable a mod...

[radiant arch]

which one?

more groups conflict?

[radiant arch]

hmm. might want a modifier for those..

i'll see if i can get Knatte Anka to fix this one 🙂

[shell fiber]

you probably should only take moddable tool groups, not the one that has pre-made tools

[radiant arch]

yeah, true. just it's so much easier not to switch when testing ..

[still frigate]

mod profiles are your friend. 😛

[radiant arch]

i like the left one

[still frigate]

The left is light off, the right is light on.

[shell fiber]

tried the other lamp texture but the lighting is unequal

[radiant arch]

wouldn't seem too tricky to make a emission map from the detail + normal ? assuming you already use custom material here?

[shell fiber]

you mean takind avantage of the pre-existing pumps and stuff from the original material ? that would probably look better indded 🤔

hmm... it's only on the normal map

could be done though

[radiant arch]

might work too.
what i meant seems to be called "LightingMap" for the environment shader. (it's emission on particles or vegetation)
allows to set which parts emit how much light when lit. doesn't it?
used them for fireflies to preserve details

[shell fiber]

yeah, that's the one that has the darker lines

otherwise it overwhelm / replace the original texture

[radiant arch]

current version: (english)

No localization for Building.FluidDump.FlavorDescription
No localization for Luc.Loglevee.Description
No localization for Lapantouflemagic.Hobbygardener.Description

[shell fiber]

what is the automation thing that allows to decide the color ?

i just can't find ti

went for that (for now, maybe) because that is just so much easier

beavers can hang out on it, but has no effect

like a benches

[radiant arch]

i love those extra places they go randomly!

and this really looks impressive and fun (and fitting)!

[shell fiber]

as for most of the other automation thingies, i'm making some sort of... whatever that thing is. for now i called it a "calculatorium" because i think that's a funny name

(it will carry modules etc)

[radiant heart]

no more "nice view" bonus?

[shell fiber]

i think it was given to the zipline balloon relay 🤔

[radiant heart]

didn't look the whole list yet, barely at making metal

[radiant arch]

the terrace cafe too?

oh.. that's a different now.. only ballon it seems: https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/v1.0/enUS_Whitepaws.html (super useful)

[shell fiber]

now i'll need to make the modules... but not today

[still frigate]

Just woke back up. Let me get into a vanilla game and I'll get some screen shots for you on this.

@shell fiber color selection fully customizable.

[shell fiber]

aaah

[still frigate]

sneaky placement, eh? I missed it at first.

[shell fiber]

color works nice

[still frigate]

Oh my, yes. Very nice.

I love the dark lines,

some of my favourite custom colors:

#640064 deep purple
#ddd618 piss yellow
#e62020 lust red```

And just because...
https://xkcd.com/color/rgb/

@shell fiber what is the code for WhitePaws pink?

[shell fiber]

i don't know 😅

there is a pink color i use for the text entries, but i don't remmeber which one it is

[still frigate]

So many to chose from.

[radiant arch]

quick search over exported files gave me:

    314 #00FFFF
     97 #FF6EC7
      6 #FF0000
     17 #FFA500

so no hit here i guess?

FF6EC7 might be the text pink

but i'd say it's more of a gradient really, what whitepaws uses

[still frigate]

Hoping this is a 1-off.

[radiant arch]

that's my mod. darn.. sorry!

you'd have any context on this? save? load? during game? dusk? night?

oh.. never mind.. found something

forgot to remove the timetrigger to stop them. when you delete (harvest?) the rice before this might happen 🙂

(who harvests rice at night???)

[shell fiber]

well, i tried and that doesn't work that well

also very hard to line up

[radiant arch]

sadly, yes

it's nice with the heights in, but not really needed. looked fine in your last version really

[still frigate]

My crazy beavers, apparently. 😛

I am running 2nd shift, but I don't think any of them were on farming duty.

[radiant arch]

i'll push the hot-fix in a minute or 5. should not happen after the update

[still frigate]

I am wrong. My rice farms ARE split shift.

[livid zephyr]

Beavers working a 2nd shift

[radiant arch]

fun how many unexpected things modders came up with.. haha

[livid zephyr]

Have my farmers and pump upgrades working 2 shifts all the time. Really helps out

[still frigate]

I had to fight with my rice farmers to get them to harvest the rice. They kept wanting to harvest the lilies.

[radiant arch]

fix is out. both steam and mod.io

[still frigate]

Gimp says the text is #e57dc4

aliased stuff is hard to know the correct color though.

[still frigate]

localization file confirms: FF6EC7

[radiant heart]

random question, with timberborn, do the mods automaticaly update from steam or need the mod manager mod?

[still frigate]

Steam updates but unreliably. Use @woeful sun's "Steam Update Buttons" https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3358667560

[radiant heart]

ty

[still frigate]

By happy accident, zip balloons will build under here.

[radiant heart]

lol, underground balloon sure is an interesting concept

[radiant arch]

they just fit in so nicely 🙂

[radiant heart]

my mind still need to grasp the concept of 3D terrain, that's all new to me

[still frigate]

@radiant arch some visual glitches I have never noticed before.

Also, how do I best use your fish?

[radiant arch]

that's a 1.0 feature i guess -> they randomize the height / dimension now misseen it.. sorry^^

came with the swaying and all that shader rework

[still frigate]

funky. They look like they are floating instead of planted.

[radiant arch]

fish: they spawn at night. the decorative plant is 4x4 (outer ring can be planted on). gives 1-2 per night i think. starts 2nd night only

[radiant arch]

sadly.. there's glitches with the cattail too..

oh.. wait.. they float.. i not noticed..

ehmmmmm that might be me 🙂

i adjust height of the particles to fit water level.. or so i thought.

maybe it really set height on the plant???

so much for being half-blind haha

not critical, is it? can take some time to fix?

wanted my fireflies to spawn as close as can to the plant, but never below water level..

technically this did manage to make them, didn't it?

[still frigate]

Not at all. Take your time.

[still frigate]

I think they are underwater... five me a moment...

[radiant arch]

wow, demolishing relics really gives contamination

[still frigate]

I havn't been watching closely, but I haven't noticed any fireflies since I placed the fish.

[radiant arch]

they are set to only appear if at dusk waterlevel is below ~0.7m (seedling) or ~0.9m (mature) and might adjust height.
given rice is a little taller you would not be able to see them spawn within the yellow mass yet sadly

need to fix that bug and set proper height for them again

and there's only 5% chance on them either. so it might be you'd need a good field of seedlings

[still frigate]

water height is currently 0.84 in the rice.

[radiant arch]

i'll see i have them fixed for you tomorrow

[still frigate]

Okay. And I have the water fairly well regulated so if you need other depths let me know. 🙂

[radiant arch]

i'll set them to allow 1m on mature rice. since it's taller than that

[still frigate]

Got my double direction pumping system all automated in.

[radiant arch]

only yet tested them on cattail and wheat really

[still frigate]

I'm on cycle 27. Who know what is going to happen when these hit.

The floating rice seems to have been a loading artifact. After harvesting there have been no new floating rice blocks.

The last floating rice block was just harvested and replanted. All looks normal now.

@radiant arch I cannot be 100% certain, but I think your last patch broke the fireflies.

[radiant arch]

not sure. i have them still

but as long as it not crashes it's a step forward 🙂

testing more deeply now

fireflies only appear at night, and only if the game was loaded before night started

floating only appears when fireflies did spawn

in deep water

[still frigate]

Just got a release date for Sintopia. I did 2 of the 3 demos and both playtests. Looking forward to it finally being live.

[shell fiber]

Should I fix that ? 😅

[still frigate]

What's to fix? The happy accident was that I had enough room. I didn't intentionally design it tall enough.

[shell fiber]

Oh I thought I had sneakily made the balloons not occupy a few of the top layers out of laziness, thinking no one would ever try to place things above a balloon 😅

[still frigate]

Well, if you did then what's a little clipping amongst friends?

[still frigate]

Pain killer have made me drowsy so I'll be back later.

[radiant arch]

have a good rest

[livid zephyr]

How naively shortsighted of you. This is timberborn...lol

[livid zephyr]

And now I want to more or less build a tomb around one just to do it... too bad I'm not quite in a position to dedicate a major dirt project like that in your mod yet haha

[still frigate]

It was sooooo naughty to hide my bad water stack behind the ENS. 😛

But another pass between the copyist and artist and I can start to take care of that.

[still frigate]

@radiant arch They can be seen in the unharvested rice too.

[wary panther]

The upper set of rope stairs get deleted when loading from a save:
● Object had an invalid location and was deleted: Double Rope Stairs.

but it does let me place them back, and beavers seem to walk on them fine

[radiant heart]

theey plant red cabbages, might want to change that @shell fiber 🤔

[livid zephyr]

i grew tired of waste rock holding things up.... haha

[still frigate]

Beware running out of PRF!

[wary panther]

And here I figured you were just setting up defenses against invaders from the whiskerwood

[still frigate]

@radiant arch The new dam upgrade in action.

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber don't want to question your judgement but filling up a airship with hydrogen? never studied history? that strat doesn't have a nice record, just saying 😛

[still frigate]

Surely our beavers never skimp on safety.

Helium is rare. Hydrogen is relatively easy to obtain. I could see our beavers taking the risk.

[distant wigeon]

Wait, there's a Tutorial?

[cloud flax]

Recently added :D ! Please post of anything feels awkward or missing

[radiant arch]

it's fun!

[stone pond]

you know, looking at the victory screen for Whitepaws again makes me totally imagine the idea of fanfiction showcasing a beaver version of Star Trek or something similar. ^_^

[shell fiber]

I mean, if they were concerned about safety they probably wouldn't go into mine 😅

[shell fiber]

It's a bit wordy around the end but yes

It takes you until blueprint duplication

[radiant arch]

nice hat 😉 @sullen cape

[sullen cape]

Ooo hey!

I've done some magic, in my U7 playthrough my passthrough dam is generating water/converting water into badwater 🤣

[radiant arch]

so team architect hmm 🤔

[shell fiber]

treason

oh, that must be my evil twin, of course 🧐

[radiant arch]

oh, short heads-up: timbercommons is broken with current experimental

they renamed a method for number localisation 🙂

only works as long as you not dare click any plant

automation mod too and some others with UI

[shell fiber]

yep...

thankfully that doesn't prevent me from working on the automation

[radiant arch]

can't play my save now

[shell fiber]

i wanted to make a flow sensor that is litterally a water wheel, but it seems the thing that would animate it conflict with being a sensor 😓

[radiant arch]

i'm sitting down with the script pack. anything to patch? want to share the blueprint?

[shell fiber]

of the water wheel sensor ? nah, i already moved to another design

plus it's probably one of the most useless sensors

i don't have anything vital to patch, but if you have the "plant spreading vertically" script or the one that allows brambles to survive bad water pollution, you can stuff them inside 😊

[radiant arch]

list currently has:

• contamination ignoring crop spec
• plant spreading specs: diagonally + vertically
• start empty battery spec
• workshop not pauses beds spec (not sure this works easily, so might not happen)

[shell fiber]

flow sensor

[shell fiber]

are they all active by default or do i need to add them to the plant blueprints ?

oh, crap, that time already ?

whelp, gotta go !

[radiant arch]

will need to add them to blueprints. not active by default. will ping you, when they are out with detail

[still frigate]

You all do constructive stuff and I make a new vanity signature. A nice 10 x 64 x 32 self-contained block that can be the basis of any future maps I make. 3 paws, individually colored (blue, purple, red), and each feeding different parts of the "NOX WOLF" name. Then it all drains off the side (each paw has its own drain even). No interaction with the rest of the map required.

[radiant arch]

that sounds like fun!

[still frigate]

The all blue version with side exits...

I -think- I have the colors balanced in the center one. Source-wise it is an even 50/50 split between bad and good water.

Visually, I am not as sure about it.

My husband says the middle looks like a fancy white to him. Blue, White, and Red?

The way I did the top it would be very easy to reroute those to any parts of a larger map, if one wished to do so.

I almsot see a crappy pink in the middle color.

[radiant arch]

something between muddled white, crappy pink and no-idea-what grey 🙂

[still frigate]

Expands nicely with the right settings in Luke's mod. 159 x 246 without any touchup.

[radiant arch]

looks like a map of endless possibilities ?

maybe add a few trees to build a forester too?

[still frigate]

I wanted this as a starting point for any future map projects.

[radiant arch]

was joking 🙂

[still frigate]

Now I just need inspiration to actually do something with it since the game is borked and I can't work on my save.

[stone spruce]

Before I start troubleshooting, WB 1.0 is working for other people? I'm getting a crash that I assume is conflicting mods, but rather be sure first

[still frigate]

Not working for me. Lots of mods broke today.

[radiant arch]

timbercommons is broken today as soon as you click on a plant. automation mod too.
pretty sure there's a couple more of them

on experimental

[stone spruce]

Tyty, that's what I was concerned about 😄

[radiant arch]

should be fairly safe to copy game to stable branch though and continue there

might take 2-3 days for fixes otherwise

[stone spruce]

It's still so weird to think that the game is officially 1.0.

I'm so used to playing on experimental at this point that stable feels like a mile away

[radiant arch]

it's almost no difference anymore. and experimental throws breaking changes at you right the moment mod-makers first hear about them 🙂

looks like spreading vertically and diagonally both work. need to cleanup and add some of the other functions and make a release.
below the 'before' state

[still frigate]

YES!!! Soon the brambles will conquer the world! Bwa-ha-ha!

A-hem. I mean good show.

[wary panther]

Then we just need a new alchemist recipe for triclophyr

to convert brambles into thorns by causing "rapid, disorganized growth"

[shell fiber]

so they can grow sideways across levels, or diagonally across levels, but not diagonally across levels, is that correct ?

[radiant arch]

i made all three options actually, much like occupations work, so you can decide:

  "ExtendedReproducibleSpec": {
      "CanSpread": "Corners, Vertical" // or VerticalCorners or All
  }

[still frigate]

I found inspiration.

[radiant arch]

nice design!

[still frigate]

I fear I am starting to enjoy map making more than actually playing. /laughs

[radiant arch]

will the volcano turn red and have some 'unfortunate accidentially huge' explosions?

[still frigate]

Naw. Only in bad tides. I should have waited for pressure to build back up. I just came out of a drought.

I was also being silly underground.

[radiant arch]

big map

[still frigate]

Not super huge.

[radiant arch]

that's bigger than a regular 256x256 wow

[still frigate]

Only becuase of the z boost.

[radiant arch]

yeah

game has same performance impact either way

[still frigate]

I don't even use all of the Z. The highest spot is 69 levels.

[radiant arch]

if you not need the extra heigth, would you mind lowering it to 72 or so?

[still frigate]

Sure. I was just being sloppy.

So here it is at normal water pressure for the water sources currently active.

Gotta have my fountain on top of the mountain.

[shell fiber]

its it on mod.io ?

[radiant arch]

i'll add some and push it later today

[shell fiber]

stream gauge thingie works too

i'll see if i can replace normal stream gauges by this one

[still frigate]

Nice

In case y'all missed it, Common has been updated.

[radiant arch]

regarding badwater, there's two checks in game

• spawn in badwater
• grow in badwater

i'd assume you want both at the same time?

or want option to make some plants tolerate, but not spread?

[still frigate]

I'd like to see spawn and grow.

[ivory fractal]

Is it just a change of textures/model? So can the Stream gauge still measure all 3 values (flow, contamination and water depth)?

[shell fiber]

nah, that would be weird. if they can survive, they can grow and expand

[shell fiber]

it still measures all 3, but works as a sensor only for the flow

i wonder if i can pile up several sensor scripts though 🤔

ah, no, i don't think the thing that tries to read a sensor can handle multiple outputs

[still frigate]

Curses to non WhitePaw buildings and their permeable nature. 😭

[shell fiber]

why not

[still frigate]

There goes my entire colony.

[radiant arch]

that's deep

[still frigate]

43 of 44 beavers are contaminated.

[radiant arch]

safe enough if one of them recovers in time to reproduce 😉

[still frigate]

EmberPelts have optional breeding pods. I had one sitting at 99% for just such an emergency.

[shell fiber]

ah-ah ! progress

[shell fiber]

😑

well that is slightly disappointing 😓

[radiant arch]

what is it you try here?

[shell fiber]

tried to overlay the icon on the indicator directly, but that becomes unreadable once lit up

[radiant arch]

not sure this might work with code..
it's pretty easy to swap shader values for them
so if it technically works to add the icon (sprite type png?) to the material and show, i could do this with code too

[radiant arch]

this looks nice too though

[shell fiber]

basically the science icon for example is applied to the second UV set the 3D model has

but when light is up, i don't know how that is handled

[radiant arch]

yeah. good question how much lighting overrides here..
i know plants use those sets for switching state and that works, but there's no light emitted on them

[shell fiber]

it's okay, i'm fine with those

small precision : they are not watertight 🧐

although i though about making it so

but the base of the building is, and only brings 9 population

[stone pond]

think ShadowsBlight does as well, really.

[radiant arch]

@shell fiber https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/grauschweifs-scriptpack#description out on steam and mod.io

# ExtendedReproducibleSpec

"ExtendedReproducibleSpec": {
    "CanSpread": "Corners, Vertical"
}

* Corners : same level, but diagonal only
* Vertical : above or below, straight only
* VerticalCorners : above or below, but diagonal only

Note: original spreading to neighbors is always preserved.

# ContaminationResistingResourceSpec

Will allow it to grow and spread in any contamination (can still flood)

# GravBatteryStartsEmptySpec

Will start this grav battery at 0% charge -> dev mode will ignore this, when placing finished battery

[radiant arch]

oh, contamination resistance still means it needs irrigation.
can't have truly undying plants, can they??

[shell fiber]

great ! thanks !

also, one last precision, should extended reproducible spec replace or supplement the normal "reproducibleSpec" ?

[radiant arch]

i'm not sure what is best.
for now it extends, so original is run first, extra directions after

so you need both

[shell fiber]

that works 🙂

let me finish testing the timer and firework cannon first 🙂

hmm... only moderately cursed

the timer is not much better 😅

[hearty swan]

Is it intentional that the Rustics are somehow related to the Water Beavers faction?

[shell fiber]

you're playing folktails with the whitepaws active, that will make things weird, i overwrite a bunch of stuff

[shell fiber]

i think i'll upload a new version only on mod.io for testing today

right now only those are missing

[stone spruce]

Just started my first Whitepaws playthrough for 1.0. This tutorial is hilarious

[radiant arch]

so was asked to make two small additions to the specs from today..

• optionally give small chance to turn contamination-death into thorns
• allow to spread infinitly below - seed drop off cliff fine

any opinion / want on either here?

[cloud flax]

Please make brambles bit easier to control them 🥲 /s

Btw anything you can do for weather as done here
#1348869700062412810 message

[radiant arch]

what is this?

[cloud flax]

Ability to add longer warning for seasons. Not sure if it would be part of the script pack though

[radiant arch]

not sure that makes sense really. it's only decided what's next right before i believe

might be possible to tweak that, but each user would like to have their own setting i wonder.. so likely would be own mod for this

and than there's mods like moddable weather that replace the whole system..

fear my backlog is too long for that rn

[heavy lodge]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3692713890

[woeful sun]

Allowing the brambles to be a complete menace

[livid zephyr]

you levee's really have some grip strength. leaving dirt just floating in the air! haha

[shell fiber]

Seeds dropping down makes sense, dead things turning into brambles seem like hell 😅

[heavy lodge]

Not brambles, thorn !

[shell fiber]

That absolutely won't survive game load though,😅

[livid zephyr]

haha no doubt. was just surprised they stay there floating

[shell fiber]

Presumably the thing reserving dirt prevents them from being destroyed 🤔

They're also protected from dynamite

[livid zephyr]

TIL they'll walk across the top of these dams

[shell fiber]

i don't hate the principle, but i don't like the visuals 🤔

[shell fiber]

good morning all !

[shell fiber]

just added that

[cloud flax]

Really!?!?!

[shell fiber]

oh, what have we done ? 😅

they are happy there

[woeful sun]

As if being able to cross paths wasn't bad enough

[cloud flax]

This gonna make us cry ☠️

[shell fiber]

oh no, i made a terrible mistake 😂

[heavy lodge]

At least, they don't hurt beavers, YET 🤣

[sullen cape]

https://klipy.com/gifs/gritito

[sullen cape]

At least the fence stops the brambles even when not built, right?

https://klipy.com/gifs/padme-2

[shell fiber]

yes

[sullen cape]

I thought so

[shell fiber]

also, i have an idea that may make the fences more space efficient.

typically, i put the fence on the edge of the voxel, and make the brambles require the "floor" part of the voxel, and make the fence only occupy that (as well as forbidding passage through the actual fence)

since other "good" plants do not require the floor part, you could have a plant coexisting with the fence, or a path or whatever, even most buildings.

BUT

you wouldn't be able to have a fence voxel act as support for a side platform or bridge

a small sacrifice that would allow to have nice fences in the fields without loss of arable land 🤔

but that will be for another update

right now i'm testing the tutorial, the flow of some text entries doens't make full sense

[ivory fractal]

Now I'm just wondering if this is the worst or if the difficulty will go even further. For example, when the wild brable is right next to a building, it causes damage to the beavers inside. Or will it damage/demolish the building?

[shell fiber]

no i'm not that mean 😅
it still needs to stay playable

brambles are just a bit harder to contain, you can't rely on elevation changes to keep them at bay, but otherwise that's the same

[shell fiber]

actually that can even make the game slightly easier on some aspects ! rather than using green gorund for brambles, i can try to direct them this way, they'll be fine 🙂

[radiant arch]

it's soo much harder to accidentally lose them too

they only can die naturally from flooding >1m for 1000 days

[shell fiber]

well the illuminator from all buildings in the housing folder was also lost

i was wondering why the night was so dull

[livid zephyr]

now I am become death....

[shell fiber]

@radiant arch it seems to me that proliferation upward has a much lower chance of happening that normal sideways proliferation, is that intended ?

[radiant arch]

it shouldn't be any different at all, no 🤔

actually the code just handles any neighbor identical

no bad side-effect should it be lower imho

[shell fiber]

well they eventually managed to climb up,so it's fine

[stone spruce]

...These pictures remind me there is no god.

The horror I feel, lol

[livid zephyr]

Just gonna need to place more paused fences down. A lot more...

[ivory flicker]

They dont die in badwater?

[shell fiber]

not anymore

[radiant arch]

only can get flooded now, with 1m+

[shell fiber]

but water polluted at 50+% does not provide irrigation, so they would not be able to expand in that

[radiant arch]

beavers can short-cut right through the fluid dump it seems
forester went diagnoally through the outlet actually, bypassing the scrap tower

[ivory flicker]

Dont give ideas (to yourself)

[cloud flax]

you can just plant crops around them 🫣🫣

Also think that assembly line should atleast require an anvil or clockwork or something hard to get? It's tooo OP a building to not require it

[shell fiber]

i've thought about it a little, maybe an anvil yeah, 🤔

i'm just a bit worried some people might stuff their one anvil in there and then get stuck unable to figure out what they did wrong

[cloud flax]

Lock it behind some metal bars? So you can never build it before factory?

[radiant arch]

still 500 sp more expensive too

[shell fiber]

how comes i never thought of this 😑

[livid zephyr]

Noticed same behavior through large warehouses

[shell fiber]

only on mod.io for now

[radiant arch]

another odd spot for beavers to land
demolished the building next to it and apparrantly beaver got stuck inside the pump somehow

[shell fiber]

hmm... i think the cart should drop one extra gear, the tutorial asks to use 2, but most likely one is already taken in a upturn power shaft 😓

[storm gulch]

I heard you might be adding some evil changes to brambles...

[distant wigeon]

They spread Up down and diagonally, can tolerate contaminated ground.

[storm gulch]

That is supremely evil

[distant wigeon]

Still need grass though

50% contamination and up and they dehydrate. More than 1 block of water and they drown

[heavy lodge]

Hope that a dying bramble will have a chance to become a thorn 🤣

[distant wigeon]

Blocking up/down/diagonal pathing contains them still.

Paths do not contain them, but paused unbuilt fences do.

[shell fiber]

Everything all right regarding the automation ?🤔
At least functionality wise

[radiant arch]

new bramble behviour looks fun. they climbed a mountain at the edge of map to look down on beavers

not using automation (yet?) or seen anything odd so far.

[radiant arch]

that's some nice new smoke there!

[radiant arch]

still confused by Grand Dam performance.
so it gives up to 720 units per day and adds 12 beavers

7 upgraded pumps also add 12 beavers.
they give around [400 x bonus] units per day, no planks needed.
now bonus usually is between 2x (well-being 25) and 4x. so this setup actually gives between 800 and 1600+ units per day.

Pumps (greatly) outperform the Grand Dam still.

i see some benefit in grand dam placed at the bottom of deep reservoirs or situations where workers are rare (does this happen this late?)
than there's drawbacks with it not working well with contamination (or was that fixed?)
the design is pretty and cool too, reason alone to use them. especially with the new dam upgrades

just: shouldn't it give twice the amount?

or was there a problem with it draining reservoir too fast?

[shell fiber]

With the old water physics draining more that 5 water at once was doing weird things

I can probably try to increase output

But the main point is that it doesn't require workforce

Maybe I could actually rework it to be not a house, similar to the giant log dams

[cloud flax]

I would honestly just reduce the housing capacity in that case.... Like to 4-6
Unless you can't pull in more water

Please don't remove the housing completely though... That would be too op

[radiant arch]

housing is fine imho. number of beds too.

maybe mostly the scaling of the beaver operated pumps makes less sense - how can same pump output 4 times the water depending on who operates it?

might be a little more cruel, but scaling it with walkspeed would work better imho

would mean they always operate at 60-120% of current grand dam output per 7 upgraded pumps

[radiant arch]

found a new way to reach the balloon with builders 🙂

(i don't think this would connect, just extends build range far enough to complete it)

[ivory fractal]

It looks fine. No game crashes. Sensors on water pumps are an excellent idea, but in some cases it is impractical. In tight spaces, I would like to swap the pump and sensor, but the building cannot be flipped. Hopefully a little contamination won't kill anyone.

In another case, I had a large water tank, irrigation canals and a valve lodge between them. Sensor for measuring the water level in the irrigation canal. I set the automation to maintain the water level in the irrigation canal. It wasn't good as fill valve, but it worked. The problem was the pump right next to the sensor, the pump created waves that unpleasantly disturbed the sensor. I had to turn off the pump permanently to keep the sensor from flashing.

I like the Calculatorium. it's an interesting way to keep all the logical elements together and not have them scattered all over the map. But I would have one request, the tower in the corner of the building is the perfect place for two logical elements. Can you please modify the building so that they can be placed there? I would use it for very important elements. There it will be very visible without having to look for a specific light in the wall of logic.

[shell fiber]

Ah yes the clock tower thing. I intended it to carry, well a clock, but then the clock Can only have one face that clocks correctly and not four like i wild have wanted. I'm also pretty sure it would rotate backyard if you flipped the building 🤔

Yeah I'll make it accept regular modules, I have no better idea anyway 😅

[shell fiber]

In that case... Well what I was thinking was to have a pump-associated sensor for early on, but also have a much more expensive autonomous sensor using the glowing stream gauge model. (One for each of depth, contamination, flow rate 🤔)

Otherwise I can always flip the thing and have the sensor be essentially a modified pumping house, but that's not much more elegant

[ivory fractal]

This would be a good solution for me. Contamination and depth sensors will be in two variants. As an upgrade to the pump and standalone rods based on the glowing stream gauge model.

[still frigate]

Wow, so much has happened the past few days!

[still frigate]

WhitePaws on steam is still 6.2.5?

Brambles are spreading! Yay!

Great job on this!!!

[radiant arch]

best part: it makes berries so much more resilient too!

had mine 'escape' the badtide to a safe level earlier

[still frigate]

They laughed at my fence and went around.

[ivory fractal]

Is there a limit to how plants can spread vertically? Something like construction, two blocks up, unlimited down?

[heavy lodge]

for now, just 1 tile up and down

[radiant arch]

working on a new version that allows more. but for now it's 1 up, 1 down only

shouldn't by default go 2 up imho. would be too much for brambles

but might work for big trees

[ivory fractal]

Ok, I know where I have to put the fences.

[heavy lodge]

watch out, they can spread diagonally 😜

[ivory fractal]

That's not a problem for me. I always thought they could spread diagonally.

[still frigate]

So I still have dying brambles due to badwater. Is that because I am on an older version of WhitePaws?

This is all new death.

[radiant arch]

only newest version has resistance

[still frigate]

Ok. So I just need to wait for @shell fiber to make it live on Steam... or deal with mod.io headaches like I used to when testing U7. 🙂

[woeful sun]

If you don't use Mod Manager, please try it, it's improved a lot since U7.

[still frigate]

Does it play nice with Steam?

[woeful sun]

Unfortunately it doesn't detect when dependencies are installed via Steam, no

[still frigate]

Ah. Does it have an option to ignore dependencies?

[woeful sun]

if you click into the mod details dialog and install a version from there, yes

it only installs dependencies when using the download button on the search results

[still frigate]

Then I shall exit out and give it a try.

I assume I need to unsub from the steam version? 😛

[woeful sun]

of which?

You can just disable it in the mod list, you don't need to unsub

[still frigate]

kk

This is current, yes? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3286370025

[woeful sun]

yep

[still frigate]

All appears good. Thank you.

[woeful sun]

blegh, timbertrees no likey likey 6.2.5: Too many parents for DeepRuin: ['Metal', 'Science']

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I assume this is expected going from .5 to .6 due to you resuing it for the sensor?

[woeful sun]

might be worth adding a BackwardCompatibleId

[still frigate]

It is totally changed. Different footprint.

Also I need two now. One for depth and one for contamination. Ah! I need the flow sensor for integration into Igor's advanced automation.

Change is to be expected. 🙂

[woeful sun]

ahh, gotcha

[still frigate]

Gotta read back and see how these are supposed to be used.

[woeful sun]

wooah, Abyss Exploration now under Metal and Science?

[still frigate]

giant bugs live in 2 places now too.

[woeful sun]

Untranslated strings:

• WashingMashine billboard
• BOTDistrictCrossing
• Bot Assembler recipe is "Hauler Bot {0}"

[still frigate]

Not bad! I remember when it was long lists.

[woeful sun]

You mean Firefly Grooming Station?

[still frigate]

yes

[woeful sun]

I only see it in badwater

Maybe 6.2.5 vs newer?

[still frigate]

I though they wer both palces in

[woeful sun]

also should "Synthetic Lyophilized Dirt Bloc" be "Synthetic Lyophilized Dirt Block"?

[still frigate]

Block is common, but I thought bloc was acceptable. Like Disk and Disc?

[woeful sun]

Google says a Bloc is generally used for "alliances, coalitions, or factions with shared interests"

'c' for Coalition vs 'ck' for a solid, stocky obstacle

[still frigate]

Huh. Okay. I'll accept being wrong on this one. 😛

[woeful sun]

Although for water beavers I wouldn't be surprised if bloc was intentional

"A coalition of dirt", hehe

[still frigate]

@shell fiber

I have concerns/issues with the depth and contamination sensors. Are they still in development?

The rest is looking very good.

[livid zephyr]

Asked the same thing a few days ago haha

[woeful sun]

heh, I just noticed that BotHaulingStation has Stanby slots

[still frigate]

Okay, first thing I've done in WhitePaws with the in-game automation system.

[still frigate]

Oh, so not fair! Bad tide started and the water just shoots out from underground and over the dam into my "protected" area where I will be building an abyssal mine. 😭

Curse me for making this map. 😠

At least it leveled out quickly.

In the map's defense I am playing "stupidly" on purpose. I have done nothing to try to block any of the bad water sources as I test it.

[still frigate]

Now that I have reached Cycle 33 and the last new activation was cycle 27, I am going to start closing off some of the bad water sources as any reasonable player would have done at least 20 cycles ago.

I believe @radiant arch started closing those he could get to very early.

[cloud flax]

Where do you post your maps?

[still frigate]

This one is on steam

I have 1 or 2 on mod.io. They are considerably older. Months even.

This was made for U7 WhitePaws.

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/noxbestias-ancient-aqueducts#description

I will probably revisit it sometime.

I have a LOT of unfinished or not yet viable maps. I get inspired and go off making another one.

I have learned so much from @radiant arch and @crisp parcel. My new maps are so much more... interesting than most of the old ones.

I should start posting maps in the maps channel, but I like to test them with WhitePaws first, and I like sharing those tests here.

One of my old ones has no accessible clean water. All is various degrees of polluted. Not WhitePaw playable as it sits. If I pre-made a place one could put a lido, then perhaps. But without that, the colony would die of dirty fur.

EmberPelts and LeafCoats both survived it though.

Some of my more recent unfinished maps have reserve resources added, like a small cache of dynamite, or berries, or a tank of water.

Two I have on steam are:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3660226943

and

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3687994082

[still frigate]

These indicator lights mixed with @radiant arch's decorations look really good at night. A learning party.

[cloud flax]

Really need a maps channel for whitepaws suitable 1.0 maps just cuz the bombs can ruin the play through

[still frigate]

Or save it. A bomb saves this map. The player just has to get to it.

Bombs in my "Wolfpaw Lake" map make it quite the challenge.

[still frigate]

Can anyone confirm that their sequoia fellers are actually cutting down dead trees? Mine are not anymore. I believe they should be.

~~FFS!

PEBKAC error, sort of.

I had turned the tree nursery off so that nothing would be replanted until all the dead threes were harvested so I didn't have to babysit it. Just like the bananas, that stopped the fellers from harvesting.

I don't think I like this behaviour. /laughs~~

No... that was a fake out. They still aren't cutting the dead ones.

@shell fiber (or anyone) what do I have to do to get dead giant sequoias cut down?

For now I went into dev mode and manually destroyed all but two of them. I can't have half my tree patch not producing.

[shell fiber]

You can maybe bad it on how tall the tree is, a tree that is 3 tall should likely be able to drop seeds 2 levers above for example 🤔

[shell fiber]

Doesn't work

[woeful sun]

Question: With bot hauling station, do you see all 20 bots at once, or only half of them? Context: #🤖mod-creators message

[shell fiber]

What ? They don't cut it ?

[still frigate]

Nope.

[shell fiber]

Well that's weird... I suppose they're not just full?

[still frigate]

They were all totally empty and I was out of giant logs.

[shell fiber]

Can you try to rip out the grapes around one to see if it helps ?

Also does anyone else has this issue ?

[still frigate]

Grapes and pine removed. Waiting...

That did it. So grapes are okay for live trees but not dead ones???