Water Beaver Overhaul

[still frigate]

Not just lidos either.

People link infinity pools; my beavers get In Der Ground pools!

And did you note that population? Still (just) under 500!

[radiant arch]

why do they not flood?

i not knew they could be underwater ?? odd

[still frigate]

I have had them 4 or 5 deep.

[radiant arch]

and fairly happy on top! (seem to like the prison)

[still frigate]

It forces me to keep stuff together.

I'm up to 72 happiness

I am so glad this map has a lot of deep ruins. One is not enough!

In testing this map I still haven't done anything in this back corner.

[radiant arch]

sooo much rock!! sooo much possibility!!!

always want at least 3 abyss mines to get things really rolling

[still frigate]

There is a whole "secret" underground back there!

And I made this map in less than a day! (I was inspired)

[radiant arch]

awesome!

when i'm big and rich i'll buy a good PC just to play that haha

[shell fiber]

Ah right, I forgot

No the texture to fix was only in the main mod

[shell fiber]

It's a change in 1.0 now most buildings are basically unfloodable

[still frigate]

They -all- have what they need! I should not be struggling to keep up with gear production.

[radiant arch]

using abyss factory?

[cloud flax]

Was just bout to say lol

[still frigate]

No, I need another degree in hoomanities

You might see me in dev mode a lot, but that's just to check stuff out. I'm -actually- playing this.

Two of my ENS are busy. Time to reactivate the 3rd one. Am I finally gonna need ENS #4???

I've got one space left on this one. #2 is over by my ENS campus.

I haven't done an overview in a while...

[still frigate]

niters all

[radiant arch]

good night

[cloud flax]

Night!!!

Wait it's the sleeping time here in India lol... You really be living in different time zone hahaha

[shell fiber]

More mechanics ? 😅

[still frigate]

Yep, making more.

So, without Smart Power, the next short drought and my batteries are 100% drained before it is even halfway throught. /sigh.

Smart power is definitely non-negotiable.

Also time for nuclear batteries it seems.

@shell fiber Can you make it so that newly built batteries have zero charge and have to be charged up?

[still frigate]

Anyone have problems with smart power and the abyssal mine? Power is back and batteries are charging but after loosing all power the mine and attachments says it is not connected to power???

Reloading without smart power and it is happy.

Reactivated the smart power mod and reloaded and it is still happy. WTF???

[livid zephyr]

yeah i noticed what i think you're talking about on my run a bit ago, just kinda pressed on trying various things to get it working again. dont remember what i had to do, but know i just kinda gave up in the end and left the some stuff paussed for the mines

[still frigate]

I think something tripped in either the mines or in smart power when the batteries hit ZERO. Took a reload to clear whatever it was.

Either that or

The game just likes to troll us.

[livid zephyr]

yeah, dont think i had any other mods running than what was needed, but i seem to remember disconnecting a shaft and rebuilding it was hit or miss to work, same with the buildings themselved that all of a sudden stopped getting power

[still frigate]

I had tried the shaft break leading up to it but I didn't remove the shaft actually connecting to it. Maybe I should have?

[livid zephyr]

think i tried the 1 leading up to, and the 1 hiddin inside? the building

if you have the hospital building built at least

[still frigate]

Which I do.

[livid zephyr]

think i just kinda ended up assuming since it ends up with that weird configuration with that shaft inside that building...😉... it was just gonna keep being annoying so i gave up. had 1 of my 3 mines that it never happened to, so just gave up

[still frigate]

Apparently even waterwheels now work as well when flooded... but at about half power.

[livid zephyr]

nice change i guess

[still frigate]

Weird. It has happened again but there is plenty of power and batteries are nearly 50%

@shell fiber Any thoughts?

@livid zephyr I replaced the "hidden" shaft with a universal power shaft and it started working.

[livid zephyr]

dont remember trying that, but dont be surprised if it quits out again at some point for no reason. know i got it going some times, only to happen again later

[still frigate]

Reloading my save to check something; it has been 3 in-game days and no haulers have taken giant logs to my advanced sawmills, despite haivng 30 giant logs in storage.

Still no giant logs. Removing smart power once again and testing.

Still no giant logs. Had to do a power off and power on. The other one, which I didn't power cycle, isn't getting lots still. This is -without- smart power.

Adding smart power back in an testing the power cycle trick.

power cycle of the building and logs start coming in.

Whatever this is, it is not smart power.
@shell fiber see above troubleshooting. I am at a loss.

I had to pause and unpause an assembly line for haulers to start bringing it stuff.

And for the other bug... the hooman medical facility has lost power again, but the rest of the bayssal system has power.

@shell fiber

Plenty of power available but the facility doesn't think so.

removing power shaft and replacing it did not fix.
pausing and resuming did not fix.

Sick and wounded are building up. This is becoming unplayable. 🙁

Well... maybe not unplayable... the clinics are picking up the slack.

[still frigate]

I destroyed the medical attachment and let them rebuild it. It is working... so far.

---

Unrelated: Am I right that it would take 30 clockwork sunflower farms to keep up with the hot nuclear press???

[shell fiber]

I would like to but I don't think so

[still frigate]

Ah well. 'Twould have been nice.

[shell fiber]

But sometimes it does without changing the power shafts ? That's weird

It doesn't particularly happen on save / load ?

Just randomly disconnects ?

[still frigate]

Random. But... it hasn't happened in a while. Very confused.

[woeful sun]

Flywheels have zero charge when built. I have no idea if they have custom code, or if they reuse bits of gravity battery code.

[still frigate]

Looks like my save corrupted. Third time in a row for the same error at the same index.

[still frigate]

That block isn't directly touching water.

Ah-ha! I can trigger it by dev-mode completing my second abyssal mine.

@shell fiber (see above) I dynamited that block and then dev-finished the mine and it was fine.

[shell fiber]

I dont really know what's above / around so honestly no idea what problem you're having 😅

[still frigate]

There was nothing above the block. Sky the rest of the way up. And no water below it either. Just the badwater near it. No clue why dynamiting that block let the abyssal mine finish, but it did.

[woeful sun]

Myabe mine has a water blocker at that point, but not a free block requirement?

So it tried to add a water blocker and found terrain in the way

[still frigate]

Well... that makes as much sense as anything.

Here it is in context of what is around it. The why it happened is less important that the fact I guessed a solution and it worked so my game can go on. 😛

[still frigate]

He is another stuck one that I had to pause then resume in order for haulers to bring it stuff.

@shell fiber The weird banana harvesting problem is back. /laughs

And they are marked to cut.

[shell fiber]

😥

[still frigate]

Testing a theory... I'll let you know if it matters.

[still frigate]

Theory correct. The tree farm has to be in range and active to replant the banana trees before they will harvest them. I also made sure all 4 entrances were accessible, though not sure if that really had anything to do with it.

[radiant arch]

thanks for figuring this one out! (if that is it)

so it all depends on tree nursery reach alone?

[still frigate]

That is what fixed it for me.

[radiant arch]

would mean it's an edge case for it not to work? (you'd want them replanted anyway)

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Is whitepaws birthrate slower than folktails?

[radiant arch]

for birth trigger to trigger there must be:

• at least two adults living at same place
• one of them must be home
• there must be a free spot

so.. smaller houses = less chance basically (they might also spend less time home)
for your question: can't see a setting for this with a quick search, but lapan would know about that.

[nova crescent]

Yeah. I also couldn't. But I feel like it's much slower. I have 6 free beds two nights passed but no new beaver.
Well being is 8.

[radiant arch]

depends on how those are distributed

oh, and one most important limit: none of the involved beavers must have any critical need unmet

(or any need critically unmet / negative? - not 100% sure which)

they likely wont breed while dirty

or hungry, thirsty, injured, contaminated, maimed, dead, ..

[shell fiber]

I didn't change anything

[nova crescent]

So, this is the scenario.
No one injured. Every critical need meets. Have two spare beds in houses.
But as you see for more than 3 nights no new beaver.
@shell fiber @radiant arch Am I missing something?

[radiant arch]

the one with the chipped teeth wont breed. are the free beds in houses with at least two beavers?

[nova crescent]

Yeah. As you can see in other 3 houses screenshot. I have 3 houses. Each 2 beds are free and 4 beavers are residing.

[radiant arch]

you might be unlucky

maybe: any mod that could disable breeding?

[nova crescent]

Breeding is definitely not disabled. I have new beavers born in this session. It just takes a lot of time.
They are not doing the deed. 😂

[cloud flax]

Ofc we be making them work 17-18hrs a day 7 days a week!!! Poor beavers need some beaverly working hours

[shell fiber]

No idea sorry

Btw, what is there that I need to double check asap ? @still frigate ' abyss issue ?

By the way did it also happens if you remove the medical facility ?

[cloud flax]

Btw I feel like scavengers junkyard is sorta a bad building for ziplines? Cuz once scrap metal is gone that buildings primary function becomes useless... And I would want a busy junction for ziplines somewhere in middle of settlement and gonna honest, it's not the prettiest of the building.... (It's good as scavengers junkyard ofc but not as a zip line is what am saying)

[radiant arch]

i wouldn't mind it being a 1-way-endpoint either. it's nice, yet overpowered as is. and it's pointless pretty soon for many maps

[cloud flax]

Like the large farmhouse

[cloud flax]

Either ENS or library might be a better candidate... Or just have a mega zipline junction building

[radiant arch]

it's fine as is with the 3-way option, isn't it?

already much more convenient than folktails

or was the tower upgrade 4-way even?

[cloud flax]

Oh right can always use the tower... But it needs some sort of food/wood building and I was looking for something that is truely urban...

[shell fiber]

Well I see no reason to worsen this poor building of it's already kind of useless late game 🤔

So yes the question is that we should have a central hub, that is actually useful, rather than kick this one down

But... Hmmm... Ideally it should just be the district center, but I was thinking about making the upgraded DC a weather station rather than a Zipline hub

Although... Nothing prevents me from making it be both 🤔

[cloud flax]

A zipline DC would be coooool!!!

[radiant arch]

4-way-zipline-center 🙂

[shell fiber]

The real question is : should I consider the possibility of the player wanting multiple weather stations as likely (ie worth bothering with) or not ?

[shell fiber]

Maybe it will be zero-way 😅

[radiant arch]

can always make the ENS it's own weather station?

[shell fiber]

I... Guess 🤔

That's an option indeed

[cloud flax]

Make weather station upgrade on ENS hehehehe

I think there is a flat spot on one of the corners

[shell fiber]

I'll have to make some proper plans for the automation

Like I'm thinking the water depth and contamination sensor could be houses the same shape as water pumps

So it just fits seamlessly 🤔

[cloud flax]

What happened regarding them being the water pump upgrades though

Continentaly blocks them behind upgraded water pumps and makes people actually use those end piece segments

But tbh if you are making them a house, I think there needs to be more than 1 sensor or something cuz from what I have seen even for simple automations, you need quite a few of them

You can probably make a sensor house which has 4 slots in it and can place upto 4 counters/automation buildings in it maybe

Like 4 upgrades over them

Waiiiit make it part of pit and tower lodge? Design One to be placed at the top? So we have one more building that completes a P&L towers

[radiant arch]

if it was a pump upgrade (end-pieces) it might not have a home - or 1 only?
it would still force to build the underlying pump, so have beavers live there, to work

[shell fiber]

i found some oddity in the power shaft of the hooman medical facility

not clear if that's the issue, but could arguably confuse the game logic

[shell fiber]

there was clearly some need for disambiguation so i changed this one like this

you don't need to remove the shaft to build it, which was already the case, but now it's clearer that you shouldn't remove it

[shell fiber]

hmm... problem, the science consuming spec that i wanted to give to the CW farms has a minimum of 1... per hour.

i was thinking about going for 1-5 per day tops since you'd likely want to build a ton of them🤔

[radiant arch]

that would seem a simple thing to add a new spec for?

[shell fiber]

hmm... well in principle that should be an easy thing to do i would assume

ah, well shit

the game crashes when it can't find the property in the existing building

i guess "scrap that idea" is by far the simplest option

[cloud flax]

Can't use it as a fuel?

[radiant arch]

it's no "good", so..

[cloud flax]

Bubye our precious science dump 🥲

[radiant arch]

i'll see if i can make a spec. that's something that should work somehow

[cloud flax]

It could be that the recipe and the time can just be multiplied so that science becomes whole number...

But then you won't get a cabbage every hour but like 24 cabbage every 24hrs

[radiant arch]

it should be simpler: it burns science by running, when there's no science, it 'pauses'
cave: it still takes shaft power, so it also pauses, when there's no power

[cloud flax]

Till that point I believe people should have had decent power supply and storage right? Maybe more use for the power automation:P

[ivory fractal]

I found a few errors. @shell fiber

If I start a new game for the Folktails faction, the game will crash. If I remember correctly, it is necessary to achieve a wellbeing 1 for Folktails to unlock Whitepaws. This will be a big problem for new players.

Gargantuan tank missing English translation

All three water wheels have the wrong text of the produced power. This is probably due to a change in the base game.

The Sluice Lodge now works as a throttle valve. So you could rename it to Throttling Valve Lodge? And make Fill Valve Lodge based on Fill Valve from the base game? The shape/design can be the same.

[shell fiber]

It's ni longer necessary, but i'll look into it

[shell fiber]

Didn't I rename it valve lodge already ? 🤔

[shell fiber]

for the record, i can have a reciepe produce negative science, but then the UI doesn't display it properly since 1.0, and it also doesn't have a blocking effect (you'd just have negative science points if you go under zero)

but that has the advantage of not eating up science when the output is clogged / there is no logs for the reciepe

[woeful sun]

Why is the caduceus Rod of Asclepius / Staff of Aesculapius upside-down?

[ivory fractal]

The upright variant did not work well for the hoomans, they all died. So beavers use it in a better orientation.

[kind spire]

Bit of a late reply, but they used to use entirely base-game code, but it was code for a dev mode item which got removed, so I had to make it's own battery type

[wary panther]

Because it's falling into the abyss

[abstract vector]

Can't figure out what's causing this crash. I should probably start disabling mods

[heavy lodge]

Disable Berries Are Delicious ! And, since when WhitePaws have berries ? I don't remember.

[cloud flax]

There was berry juice! Cereal bars take berries! Berries is default first food, and what gatherers harvest

[heavy lodge]

A, Ok, TY.

[cloud flax]

There's too many things to remember in waterbeavers hahaha

[heavy lodge]

YA, and if you have Emberpelts and LeafCoats, too, is overwhelming 😮

[ivory flicker]

Cant wait to jump in again after the 1.0 release

With bombs unstable cores this time

[heavy lodge]

will worth a try, since now rubble expires. Will be fun to demolish the broken cart and watch resources vanish 🤣

[still frigate]

My apologies. My entire household is quite sick. I haven't been watching chats.

[cloud flax]

Oh no!!! Please take care!!!!

[cloud flax]

Thankfully builders can store rubble in their buildings.... So now it's a bit better XD

[shell fiber]

if the game is mostly bug-free currently, i'd like to complete the tutorial before 1.0 official release

by the way, i'd thinking of adding a small decorative building that consumes brainsalts, in large part because that gives something to build to validate the tutorial step.

i'm thinking something like a small incense burner (maybe @radiant arch could give me a nice 3D model from the lamps mod ?) but other ideas are welcome.

i'm thinking a 1x1 decorative building

[radiant arch]

which one? the small stone lantern?

[still frigate]

That would be cool, but maybe give it a 3x3 or 4x4 radius. The scent would travel.

[radiant arch]

i'd need to rework that one i fear (has 600 triangles still)
but sure could share it after

haha, yeah, it's just as complex as the huge torii gate, yet soo small

[still frigate]

Easrly modders for Cities Skylines would put out stuff with too many and eventually it would lag the game out.

[shell fiber]

well you can use the decimate modifier

or sometime "merge by distance" can be a fast way to reduce poly count

but maybe making my own is going to be pretty quick

[radiant arch]

likely

[cloud flax]

Modify the in-game agora?

1x1 building might be too small to spend brain boosting salts in early game...
Unless you just planning to use it for construction and not consumption

If it's gonna consume I hope more beavers can get access to it

[radiant arch]

ok, had it down to 480 already.
the modifier brings it to 240 (70 logs, 170 frame) - looks okaish, but should be easy to remake (screenshot; common white plaster here)

[shell fiber]

oh, actually maybe the agora has a useful model

actually i was thinking of a more open style burner 🤔

but that's not bad either

i slapped this together

[shell fiber]

hmm... small problem...
there's no provision for a building that consumes a ressource to generate a wellbeing aura it seems

so either it's just a decoration that is build once and then goes on forever

either it's an enterable where beavers come to sniff some brainsalts once in a while

[radiant arch]

i think it is very well matching it's purpose here haha

yet i feel conflicted to see them like that

intensity / colour of the light is a little too bright imho

btw: you can use SimpleLights Spec from my script pack to add (night-only) lights too

[shell fiber]

yeah i'm reducing the light emission alreday

[radiant arch]

it can get tricky with that in close range - dimming the colour might work better at times

[shell fiber]

someone should stand a little bit further away but otherwise seems good enough 😅

[radiant arch]

oh, that's nice!

[shell fiber]

i would need to rework the lighting system though, the particles appear when beavers are in, but the light is permanently there

anyway, that's good enough to go back to the tutorial

[livid zephyr]

3 beavers at 1 seems excessive? See how 2 right next to each other looks as is, is there weird overlap?

[still frigate]

They aren't as closely packed as I would assume. I would expect a whole ring of them pushed shoulder to shoulder.

[shell fiber]

wait, the floodgate dam didn't require metal blocks ? i thought it did

[radiant arch]

never did iirc

or maybe the blueprint did?

[shell fiber]

neither apparently

that might be an oversight, or some data loss long ago

[radiant arch]

odd.. wouldn't make any much difference, yet sound more proper

[shell fiber]

in the tutorial i'm instructing the player to build the factory, in part to get metal blocks for the floodgate dam, i would look like a fool if it doesn't actually require it 😅

[radiant arch]

pretty expensive looking still (and many many beaver roundtrips)

does it need 150 logs? they fill it with that?

i'm sometimes frustrated by it being slow to build, given i usually build it far-off to block stream early

[cloud flax]

"Them brain incense got me feeling on top of the world every time is getting a whiff! Move aside you fools!!! Aaaahhhh! Finally my brains all cleared up"

[radiant arch]

for comparison the 2x3 corner dam, upgraded has:

180 logs      80 + 100
 55 met.fix   20 + 35
 70 tar        0 + 70

and that one looks more massive?

[cloud flax]

Damn didn't know they required metal blocks tooo... Dams are gonna be even bigger pain especially since they already need a blueprint

[radiant arch]

hmm.. maybe it's not that expensive as a floodgate as i thought it was.. 😅

[shell fiber]

it's more...engineered 😊

[abstract vector]

@shell fiber I get a repeatable crash when I set the sluice house to 0.0 flow

[woeful sun]

Can't help with that crash, but "Vertical Nav Mesh" will fix the navigation line drawn for the ladder (I see some harmless warnings about it struggling).

[ivory fractal]

Same problem as NoxBestia, if I remember correctly it was caused by the Water Extension mod, so remove it and it should be ok.

[shell fiber]

quick note about that : i can't help but feel the sluice house should be in the "water" tab, no ?

[shell fiber]

doesn't happen to me, so probably what @ivory fractal says

[shell fiber]

Also, poking at the tutorial, I just can't shake the itch telling me that the tar recipe with sunflower seed (rather than oil) is wrong 😓

I might put it back

[radiant heart]

👀

Noticed WB is "1.0" on the workshop, does it mean that the faction is now 1.0 compatible?

[radiant arch]

plays pretty well outside random breaking updates to timberborn

not 100% complete maybe, but close enough

[radiant heart]

haven't played since U5 so.... i know i'll complain about the water cans for the showers but appart from that.... as long as it works it's fine

nice, it works, just had some old U5 files cauzing issues, just mass deleted the folder and it works, YAY

[still frigate]

I'm looking forward to testing automation when it is added to the WhitePaws!

@radiant arch Here is something for my "fishtank" maps for the player.

Few people play a single map over 100 cycles. But how many cross 200? 250?

This gives a way to break the fishtank, but almost certainly will have to be triggered by dynamite long before risking it going off on its own.

[still frigate]

@radiant arch Also, weren't you going to give WhitePaws a crane they didn't need to unlock that can be used to make building towers?

[cloud flax]

How do I link a channel... Anyway there's a rappelling rope entry in mods

[woeful sun]

Just copy the link to the channel, and paste it in to your message

[cloud flax]

https://discord.com/channels/558398674389172225/1475928158367912018

[radiant arch]

work-in-progress 🙂
(got a little obsessed with the decorations lately)

kinda want to push the decorations update today (remodelled stone lanterns, stone medium gate, fairy lights) done 🙂
after do some scripting on consumable area needs, lights and start-0-batteries
and then looking into testing ropes and balancing and maybe adding some new features to them. so might take a week or some still to get to that

[shell fiber]

fixed the FT crash due to the tutorial having being mauled beyond recognition

[still frigate]

What is it now... 6 or 7 hours and then 1.0 goes live officially? Do you think they will risk changing anything else or leave it as it is right now in experimental?

(I have no clue what the reaction means)

[radiant arch]

it's the one and only that fit for an answer - only pmduda would know 🙂

haha, that explanation gave me a rank-up !

[still frigate]

So we are practically "neck and neck"

[radiant arch]

top-level 'commenters' i guess!

[still frigate]

🤣

[shell fiber]

i don't expect them to change anything for release, that's bad practice. imagine you have a new bug slipping in 😑

i'm restructuring the tutorial to make it less "clicky"

basically in one "tutorial" (ie :chapter) you can have several "stages" (ie missions) which are each decomposed into "steps" (ie individual things to do)

one "chapter" only takes a small like of text as title, then each stage has a description, individual tasks don't have text

the only restriction is that "side quests" are on the chapter level, so they can't trigger in the middle of a chapter, only between them

[shell fiber]

Basically I'm compacting several "one chapter, one mission, one task" into fewer chapters that have more missions

[radiant heart]

can we get the shower tank back to "a thing for hard mode too plz" ?

[shell fiber]

That means less branching freedom but whatever

[shell fiber]

I think it's inside 🤔

[radiant heart]

having to pack the water makes it not so hard mode friendly

[shell fiber]

Oh barreled water went through the window

[radiant heart]

yay

been a bit since i tried to be up to date

probably going diaorama, still not sure about hard mode tho

it's the same issue as the new helix, berries will die unless lucky RNG

[radiant arch]

i did manage diorama somehow rushing in with broken cart dynamite. erecting and demolishing primitive dams / levee each cycle but it was close,

[radiant heart]

i already did diorama, but nuclear and badwater were not a thing

was micromanaging the swapping ballons to get what i needed

or just waterfall for old time's sake

idk, still have to decide

[radiant arch]

it's a pain to do diorama now, with all the big buildings tbh

certainly more fun to do a slightly bigger map

[radiant heart]

one more reason to do it on hard 🤣

unless lapan proves me wrong, the barrel shower is all my fault.... yup i'm the weirdo

that was like back in U4

[shell fiber]

well that took way too much time

but now my filing and naming is clean 🧐

just so that you be warned, the tutorial entries... might be slightly unhinged

the setup is that the player (the expedition leader) has done... something. and got expelled tasked with creating a new colony somewhere else.

you still exchange mails with your superiors, who may or may not like you 🤐

[still frigate]

quite appropriate for the flavour of this mod.

@shell fiber @radiant arch Well, this answered my question.

#📢announcements message

If only had been the one to post the announcement! LMFAO

[shell fiber]

hmm... i feel my text entries are actually a bit too long, i'll rework them next week maybe
(i did have quite some fun writing them though)

of course no one forces the player to actually read them

[shell fiber]

Tell me if something is wrong 👍

[still frigate]

I'm still pretty sick so I'm only playing in short bursts. Right now sipping some hot orange juice to soothe my throat.

One of only two hot drinks I can stand.

Can't get the other at home and I'm not leaving my house. /laughs

The other is Ethiopian Coffee - full ritual style.

I know, I have weird tastes. 😛

[abstract vector]

I like hot bone broth when I'm sick

[radiant arch]

agreeable taste

[still frigate]

I don't like most soups so bone broth is out for me.

Egg Drop soup with an ungodly amount of soy sauce I like.

[still frigate]

This was the mod I was talking about. 🙂

[radiant arch]

it's surprisingly more popular than the decorations still 🤔

should work on it.. yet.. i want to make fun things rn ..

[still frigate]

I like both.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I ended up falling asleep right after the above conversation. I just woke up and I'm starting a new playthrough and going through the new tutorials for you.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber tutorial question: why all the small useless water? That is over 100 wood for a mere 240 water.

Instead, spend 40 wood plus 15 resin (which one should have plenty of by now, maybe) gets you a lodge that stores 200 water. Two of those and one is still much less wood than the small tanks. Also, unless you prioritize the small tanks, the haulers tend to bypass them and for for lodges and/or medium tanks.

In my own playthroughs I will almsot never bother with any of the small tanks, expect, perhaps, for my bad water buckets.

This is my own playstyle. As always, take it for what it is worth to you.

[radiant heart]

no more giant burried tanks? 😭 those were awesome

[still frigate]

Their replacement is sorta cool, but it is very much an end-game building as it requires glass panes, which require the high temperature foundry, and so on. There is a sorta expensive get-round. Pretty early one can trade for solar. Get enough solar and destroy it for its glass.

NOTE: I have never done this in one of my games.

[radiant heart]

i went over the top of late game loOOOOng ago, i'm so lost, it's fun but a bit sad to see cool stuff like those gone

[still frigate]

Understandable.

I messed about a bit in U6 and deeply play-tested U7 and 1.0

[radiant heart]

i started my break when 3D water came out, that was what, U5?

[still frigate]

I -think- so.

I've been with the game pretty much since the beginning and it is hard to keep track of what changed when. My first playthrough warehouses could store more than 1 item at a time. 😛

That brought memories of Pharaoh.

[radiant heart]

played when paths were not free?

[still frigate]

That I don't remember, but perhaps?

[radiant heart]

that was super early, can't remember maybe U1 but not sure at all

[still frigate]

Yeah, I don't remember either.

[radiant heart]

Not too bad after 3 cycles, still rusty but getting back slowly

[still frigate]

Nice!

[radiant heart]

i'm just not sure about the big pound in the back if it needs 2 or 3 water dumps to keep it loaded, iirc the old waterfall map it was 3 but that one seems smaller

target remains the same, let's go gigadrills for free science with the trebs !

[still frigate]

Good luck. 🙂

[radiant heart]

first bad tide gonna be the real make or break point, if it kills all my berries it's bad, think i got a few in the safe zone, will have to let them spread a bit

biggest issue gonna be ropes for the lido, if i got it right it's bamboo locked to will have so be carefull about how i use the little we get from breaking the kart

[still frigate]

Nope. Ropes aren't locked.

Under food gathering, the florist.

[radiant heart]

Ooo, nice, so i guess that's the "next" thing i want to head towars, having that pool filed up will give me greenland to support a ton of beavers, been holding up on growth a bit but food and water seem to be doing fine

[still frigate]

It is easy to miss. I missed it and I was here where Lapan was talking about it. /laughs

[radiant heart]

lol

it's fun to be back at it, WB are gonna be on the menu every evenings for quite a bit, there is no "short run" with those guys unless you die

[still frigate]

No, there is not.

[radiant heart]

one thing i hope i can still set-up is a bot district with all those buildings that "run without workers" to ease the pressure on the little guys, wonder if lapan broke that somehow with the updates

[still frigate]

I have never thought of bots for the run without workers buildings, but it makes sense.

(So I can't say if it still works or not.)

[radiant heart]

i tried a run on sandbox mode and just a flat map to see what would be the bare minimum amount of beavers needed to do evertything for all the beavers that were there

it goes up fast, don't remember but it was much higher then expected, and then lapan trowed another thing that needs more thing to do the thing to make the other thing so that thing can make the thing

[still frigate]

I try to keep under 500 for a long as possible.

[woeful sun]

6.1.8: No blueprints found for Buildings/Water/StreamGauge/StreamGauge.Folktails.blueprint.json

It moved to Buildings/Decoration/StreamGauge/ recently right?

[still frigate]

Not sure why, but yeah, it is in decorations.

[woeful sun]

oops, why am I running against 6.1.8 and not 6.2.1?

[radiant heart]

is there any automation included or gonna have to find back the streamgage automation mod thingny?

[still frigate]

I use Igor's automation. Lapan hasn't added 1.0 automation in yet.

[radiant heart]

not anywhere close to it anyway, also need to find back the one that saved power, smart power or something like that

[still frigate]

First of this playthrough was for dedicated sawdust production for my shrooms (and later, paper)

action:(act Workplace.RemoveWorkers)

condition:(gt (sig District.ResourceCapacity.Sawdust) 2500)
action:(act Workplace.SetWorkers 500)```

[woeful sun]

6.2.1: The Trebuchet recipes seem to be missing?!?

[still frigate]

The trebuchet was replaced with a different one that doesn't need workers.

[radiant heart]

i see, that's not what i had in mind, maybe it doesn't exist anymore, it's the one that linked the stream gage to the floodgates

[still frigate]

That script engine will do it.

[radiant heart]

so no more sitting in the bucket for funzies? 🙁

[still frigate]

You set a custom signal on the stream gauge (depths, speed or contamination) then you use that signal to control your floodgates, once you have them researched.

[radiant heart]

gotcha, gonna have to go and do some mod shopping but i want to try and not go overthe top too, just a few qol stuff left and right

[still frigate]

Yeah. Counting Water Beavers, I'm running 42 mods right now. Much less than I normally would.

[radiant heart]

i got no clue how many mods i had back in the days but the folder was heavy, some of that stuff is now part of the game tho

[still frigate]

Yep. Igor's automaiton is much more advanced than the game's automaiton, but I'll run both once Lapan adds the game's in.

[radiant heart]

i guess i'll see when i get there, if lapan didn't have time to do it i'll drop in the other mod. At least run won't go as fast as before, not playing that all day long anymore, just a few hours in the evening, used to work with the game runing on the side, like 10~12h a day of timberborn, stuff was moving fast over a few days

[woeful sun]

Updated timbertrees for 6.2.1

Missing English translations

[shell fiber]

hmm...good point. well the tank pit and ladder lodge also house 6beavers, which will consume approx 130 water during a 9 day drought. but of course if you want extra beavers that's not an issue.

i think the conclusion though is that those buildings should be more expensive 😅

[still frigate]

I was referencing the liquid storage house. 3 dwellers.

[shell fiber]

well, yes but the problem is that having such large tanks de-incentivise the player from actually building dams, which kind of defeats the purpose of the faction. i also nerfed a little bit all water storages, but now there is 8 water per voxel instead of 5

[shell fiber]

i think U2 or U3 maybe. it was the case when i first got the game

[shell fiber]

ohh, the poor forest, got clear-cut with no hesitation 😅

[shell fiber]

the water dump can now have up to 6 or 8 workers, so you should probably be able to fill it with one lido, if your water reserve hold up

[shell fiber]

no, should be doable

[shell fiber]

ah, shit

[shell fiber]

oh, thank god, i was wondering how the hell my geme didn't crash if i had forgot that

[still frigate]

@shell fiber How much of a -full- farm plot (the planting range of the two farmhouses) should 2 farmhouses the assistants upgrade be able to plant and harvest?

[shell fiber]

will add it soon, but i have some work to do, so automation will probably have to wait at least until the end of next week

[shell fiber]

there was an issue with it being both an attraction and a workplace, caused beavers to blink cause they couldn't access their workplace. so i made it a pure attraction that just consumes rocks

[shell fiber]

proportions should be roughtly the same, unless i forgot to adjust it

[shell fiber]

i have absolutely no idea 😅
it also depends on what you plant i guess

[still frigate]

If you go by the blue outline, I would -guess- that I am using about 1/3 to 1/2 of their farmable range (if there were no obstacles). They are unable to keep up with the harvesting. /laughs

[shell fiber]

in optimal conditions yes, i think one farmhouse quickly get overwhelmed with a 4-5 radius worth of cabbages, but cabbages also grow quite fast. as soon as one of the crop gets full they will need more land.

[still frigate]

Here is a potential tutorial issue then:

I was trying to figure out my starvation problem. Not only is all my food not getting harvested, but following the tutorial I had decreased the priority of the mushroom tents. Damn near killed me. As soon as I got priority workers in the mushroom tents the mushrooms started catching up which let the braised cabbage catch up and now my beavers are eating well enough.

[shell fiber]

eh, it's okay, the tutorial only ever instruct the player to build like... 2 farms ? of course they'll need more 😈

[still frigate]

Of course. I have 4 plus 1 assist.

It just seems like bad advice to lower the priority of the mushroom tent.

[shell fiber]

but didn't the tutorial say to build a hauler before that ?

[still frigate]

Even if it did, I already had haulers by then.

I didn't have the mushroom tents prioritized by the haulers.

[shell fiber]

hmm... maybe i can advise the player to check that box then. but the deliveries should happen nevertheless

[still frigate]

I would have expected so as well.

But I never use the unmaned mechanic, so I have no experience with it.

[shell fiber]

ah

oh by the way, here is the google sheet for the text entries of the tutorial, if people want to help shorten it:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16rjl2eYllSYs9o4eOjjkNXgiqib2aLRcTkCRynR80Us/edit?usp=drive_link

[still frigate]

My haulers and a P&L builder at the time. I would have assumed that this would have been more than adequate for my small colony.

[still frigate]

I also have to concede that this map is not currently WhitePaws compatible. Bad water is practically impossible to get unless you spend a lot of time and beavers on getting science from relics. Also the strongest temperate season water flow only gives 4 hp per crappy wheel.

So it is map tweaking time.

[sullen cape]

U6 🙂
Welcome back!

[shell fiber]

hm... looking at the numbers, i think you're right, they either should cost more, or store less.

the liquid storage lodge cost ~3x more than a small tank, but stores 8 times more, while it should store a little bit more than 4 tanks worth. so i'd lower it from 200 to 120
the pit and ladder variant costs basically twice more, has double the number of beds and double the volume, so basically the answer should be 240 (down from 400)

i could poke at the other storages, but the only one that matters is the medium tank (250) and plank tank (40) which have far higher cost-to-capacity ratios than anthing else

[sullen cape]

My brother likes that game 🙂

[shell fiber]

during a 9 day drought, the six beds in the pit and ladder would still consume basically half of the water stored in the building so math-wise that's good to me

i probably had forgot to nerf them when i removed the giant buried tank

[cloud flax]

I always go for pit tanks than the small tanks... Always found them better somehow idk

[radiant arch]

i like to use a water dump early to extend drought safe irrigation and it's so easy to fit in pit tanks (and clay pit) with it 🙂

only learned through the tutorial that plank tanks actually are cost-efficient (still not sure about liking them, they not stack..)

[cloud flax]

Really?? Tbh I would still rather spend planks on something more useful cuz they be PITA to make early game

[sullen cape]

Me? Tank tank tank tank tank tank tank tank tank
Oh and some food storage

[cloud flax]

Once I get couple of rudimentary sawmill, I don't mind but not before that for sure

[still frigate]

The player used to have to build up and break the blockage to access bad water. I did it with a lot of P&L houses when testing. But even then it really wasn't usable unless you had platforms, skewers, and stairs.

Now there is a running bad water source with the strongest water flow at this stage of the map. Plus I repaired the overflow aqueduct and gave it a water source. I also added some easier to access metal, but not a lot.

[shell fiber]

i think you can slap a platform on them

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I'm gonna dev-mode test some stuff with the crappy waterwheels and sawmill before I go back to the tutorial. Some in that section -seems- off. I'll let you know

[radiant arch]

can't. no single, no double platform. need to side-platform over them, which is later and less convenient

if they supported platforms that would help a lot imho. i like to place them under stairs or such. still pit tanks are best for those, with the middle-entrance.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber a 0.5 strength bad water source only produces enough current to give you 8 HP with two crappy waterwheels. The lumber mill wants 50 HP, or 12 crappy water wheels.

Two strength 1 water sources give a current of 1 in a 2-wide canal, which gives 30 HP. Just over half of what a sawmill wants.

How much current do you expect the starting area water supply to provide?

(The tutorial says 1 or 2 crappy waterwheels should be enough)

[radiant arch]

it should be always 1 on 2-wide channel for any default map

(you can use levee to narrow to that)

so 2-4 wheels max for the first sawmill

[still frigate]

I'll boost the bad water source up to strength 2 then.

[ivory fractal]

The total water flow of the starting area is usually 2.5 or 3 for most maps. If you narrow it into a 2 wide channel, 2 crappy water wheels are enough and you have approximately 40 HP.

[ivory fractal]

The water tank increases the capacity of stored water.
The liquid storage lodge (both) increases the capacity of stored water much more, but at the same time it also serves as a house for beavers. This also increases water and food consumption, which means more farms/pumps, which is even more beavers and more consumption.
If you only look at the price of the building and the capacity of the tank, then you are right about the price-capacity ratio, but if you also include the long-term consequences of increased consumption, I would say that the current values are about correct.
I personally see liquid storage lodge as a worse alternative to a water tank, because a water tank is a one-time price, while a liquid storage lodge also contains a long-term subscription. I never build a liquid storage lodge as a water storage, only if it is part of a dam does it make sense to use it.

[shell fiber]

That's really a playstyle choice, you can see more population as a cost, but it's also workforce to run your industry, so in the end it's really a matter of how much arable land to have to sustain it.

Judging from my experience and from several people having population in the thousands, it doesn't seem like falling in a never ending loop of needing more food to feed the water pumpers and needing more water to hydrate the farmers it's a possibility.

So as long as the building makes sense for some people that's good enough. 🤔

Typically I rarely use them either because I'm too worried about my population exploding, but I often have one or two pit and ladder water storage lodge for a little population boost and reaching a couple levels higher on my tower

[abstract vector]

I end up tweaking almost every map for WB, just for my own sanity mainly

[cloud flax]

Especially with 1.0 maps, I just think the mines detonate waaaay too fast for water beavers to be able to do anything bout them honestly

[radiant heart]

i got the forester up at the last log before having to deconstruct something, was a close call 🤣

[radiant heart]

cool that's next thing on my list, after that should have enough green ground to forget about what the river gives 🙂

[ivory fractal]

You're right about the playstyle choice. Usually when I have less than about 70 beavers, I have some vacancies and I have to choose where to put the beavers. But as soon as I cross the 100 or 200 beaver mark, I have about 20% of the beavers unemployed and I have no job for them. That's why I try to limit the number of beavers. If I just need a water storage, I'm building something like this in the picture. 20 x pit tank, 10 x small covered tank, total capacity 1450 water, 0 beavers, but you need a gigantic amount of logs to build. After research of the platforms/stair, the structure can be layered on top of each other as shown in the more distant part.
Sometimes I wish I could replace this structure with one large tank, it's better for haulers. But this can be built in parts.

If I need to build a dam (I always need a dam somewhere), I know I can't avoid increasing the beaver population. Then I decide if I need more haulers, builders, or warehouses, or if I can place a production building in the dam. If I choose water storage lodge, I take the expanded water capacity as a pleasant bonus to the function of the dam. But for me the water storage is not the primary purpose of these buildings.

[radiant heart]

future planning by having stuff with no roads to the center isn't cheating... 🤣, right?

[abstract vector]

Remember that zip lines are in water beavers now

[radiant heart]

don't even want to look at how much rope those will need, will keep that as a surprise for future me

[ivory fractal]

If the building is not connected to the district center, it is cheating.
But maybe when you create a special district, you attach buildings to it and send 0 beavers to the district. Then the buildings are connected, but the population will not grow. That is probably not cheating.

[radiant heart]

well, if i don't have the material to make a path to said buildings... to be fair on normal i try my best not to cheat but on hard mode gloves are off since the builder's hut restiction happenned

( for context, back in the days i tried a hard mode and not destroying the kart run, lapan didn't like the mission beeing a success so locked the builder's hut behind the kart beeing wrecked )

[ivory fractal]

Without demolishing the expedition cart, you have very limited options. Most technologies are inaccessible.

[radiant heart]

exactly, it was the idea to see how far it can go

basically scavenged all possible scrap and random trees on lemon canyon

[thorn dune]

unemployed beavers get plank gnawing duty.

[radiant arch]

and axles gnawing! always want a stack of 100s of those haha

[thorn dune]

of course, just in case 🙂

[still frigate]

@shell fiber A builder lodge wont connect to a platform. It works fine on the ground connected to the same path.

EDIT: There is something else going on. Investigating...

The difference between these two builder lodges is what they are sitting on. I am going to disable a mod and see if the problem remains...

The problem was not the mod. The problem is the valve lodge I am building on top of. I tried another building on top of it and the same problem. I put a different building with an upper level entrance on it and it was fine.

I tried to stop the flow in the valve house and it crashed.

This is reminiscent of the crash with the sluice lodge predecessor that seemed to only affect me.

Crashed again with a much reduced mod load.

Gonna try it with reduced mods for whitepaws to run, plus the minimal mods I run for map editing.

It still crashes with only these 17.

MoreModLogs
Lapantouflemagic.1x1x2Storage
BobingaboutScriptPack
BobHousingOptimize
Harmony
Grauschweif.Scriptpack
Tobbert.Ladder
Lapantouflemagic.TexturePack
Lapantouflemagic.Logstairs
eMka.ModSettings
ModdableToolGroups
DevButton
Timberborn.IgorZ.TimberCommons
TimberUi
MapResizer
TImprove4Mods
Lapantoufleagic.WhitepawsFaction```

reducing to these 13 which I believe is absolute minimum. I can't even load my map with this set.

MoreModLogs
Lapantouflemagic.1x1x2Storage
BobingaboutScriptPack
BobHousingOptimize
Harmony
Grauschweif.Scriptpack
Tobbert.Ladder
Lapantouflemagic.TexturePack
Lapantouflemagic.Logstairs
eMka.ModSettings
ModdableToolGroups
Timberborn.IgorZ.TimberCommons
Lapantoufleagic.WhitepawsFaction

Still crashed, on the built-in "waterfalls" map.

[woeful sun]

yea, and the stacktrace doesn't give enough context as to what triggered the modification that's failing

[still frigate]

I removed ladders and more mod logs so I was only running the minimum listed on steam. Still crashed.

At least I have proven that it isn't "some extra mod" I'm running doing it. 🙂

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber Where is my balistic study science ? REEEEEEEEEE

( with mush love but stil REEEEEEE )

[still frigate]

additional crash note: It only crashes on ZERO flow. A flow of 0.05 and it is fine.

[woeful sun]

as it seems to be water related, I'd guess TimberCommons?

[radiant arch]

that's what the error says, yep. might be related to some edge-case in timbercommons

might be the map itself (or weird objects on it / occupations / dunno)

13 columns on one tile?? is that a very high map?

[woeful sun]

No map should be able to crash the game like that

[still frigate]

It still crashed on the default map "waterfalls"

[radiant arch]

there've been some similar edge-cases with map-resizing. so that's what i wondered about.

but they involved building on the upper-most layer usually and mis-registering that height

[still frigate]

I took that into account. Plus to run absolute minimum (11 total) I had to remove map resizer.

[radiant arch]

hmm... i don't know

[still frigate]

And it only triggers on zero flow. Like I said, 0.05 is fine.

[radiant arch]

that's what the error says, yes. only on flow

[still frigate]

I love the flavour text in these, like this.

[still frigate]

What is a waterpump upgrade board???

[woeful sun]

Billboards?

[still frigate]

Ah! Probably

[woeful sun]

timbertrees puts them between the Artist Lodge and the Copyist Lodge, but that can't be right, can it?

[radiant heart]

if anyone wants to see the disaster in action btw i'm doing everything live, just hit me up on dm, don't want to just use that as a self promo thing and smack the link qith big picture and all in here, it's not the place for that

[still frigate]

@shell fiber In addition to the other two bugs, this -appears- to be letting wather flow through unchecked. Visually it looks like moving water and my water levels are not rising.

EDIT: this may be player error...

[radiant heart]

like the french canadian on the "esti", why the edit after?

[woeful sun]

(There's also https://discord.com/channels/558398674389172225/720890220924370985)

[radiant heart]

ty

[still frigate]

Okay, I moved the building beside it and that did not slow the flow. I had to totally block the intake with another building despite it being set at a mere 0.05

[woeful sun]

I tried creating a twitch account, but the two common names I used for online stuff were both in use 🙁 (and so is my 3rd backup, ugh)

[still frigate]

Because immediately after I posted I realized the position of the adjoining building might have been the problem.

[radiant heart]

i mean when you changed "esti" to "edit"

[still frigate]

My tremors cause me to make a lot more typos than I used to.

[still frigate]

Ah ha! I did not know this: "Esti" (or estie, ostie, 'sti) is a common, vulgar swear word in Quebec French

[radiant heart]

the more you know 😛

[still frigate]

It is important to note that this is highly colloquial in Canadian French and differs from other contexts, such as the name "Esti" (meaning "sweet" in Basque)

[radiant arch]

close, but they not yet launch (sadly)

[still frigate]

Well, any other clan would probably be okay on this map. I knew bad tides would be rough, but they took away my baths and my colony will soon implode.

I blasted my dam and the baths are back... which tells me it is survivable once I research the floodgate dam.

Of course that was at the cost of my rice fields.

If only the valve lodge worked right and could be automated.

[radiant heart]

@still frigate would you plz get food and keep pumping?

[still frigate]

There are few beaver problems that gears, planks, and dynamite can't solve!

[radiant heart]

carefull @radiant arch found you too beeing a slacker, gonna have to crack that whip

leaky bath?

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Was this perhaps aimed at me? 😛

[shell fiber]

Ah, yes Okay classic issue with new buildings 😅

Very easy to fix

[shell fiber]

What are the building immediately next to it ? Or above/ under it ?

[shell fiber]

Ahah, no I just wanted to make them sound a bit like pricks 😅

[shell fiber]

If you want / have time to try , with a save where the crash reliably happens :

Do in the mods data folder, find the sluice house, and try to delete either or both of the "finishable horizontal water obstacle" properties ?

[still frigate]

Sure. Give me a few...

[still frigate]

totally delete these?

  "FinishableHorizontalWaterObstacleSpec": {
    "Obstacles": [
      {
        "X": 0,
        "Y": 0,
        "Z": 0
      },
      {
        "X": 0,
        "Y": 0,
        "Z": 1
      }
    ]
  },```

"FinishableWaterObstacleSpec": {
"Height": 1.0
},```

[still frigate]

It no longer crashes when set to zero!

Give me a few and I'll see if it properly controls water flow.

Even set to zero, water still flows freely through it.

[radiant arch]

the water obstacle spec should define to which height it blocks water on that voxel.
so setting it below water level would make water flow through (like how dams work)

[still frigate]

I thought this worked like the new valves. That is how it is labeled?

[radiant arch]

i don't know. just know if you reduce water obstacle height, it will let water run through the block (building)

seems it might conflict with blocking from the obstacle spec and blocking from the valve part maybe

[still frigate]

water passes freely through at either extreme.

[radiant arch]

odd

i'm mostly confused and should not have commented on this. please ignore me today 🙂

[still frigate]

It's all good

And yet one more of Luke's mods added! /laughs

+RubblePlzNoExpire

[shell fiber]

That is still very very weird 🤔

I need to test more

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I have completed my run through the tutorial. 🙂

If the person going through the tutorial is the kind of gamer who will actually slow their ass down and read the text, they will do fine.

However, the "click the check boxes and go on as fast as possible" type of gamer will fail the tutorial miserably. If they're not already familiar with the WhitePaws, they will be lost. There's at least one critical item that is not in the checkboxes and if you don't have it everything is going to grind to a halt for you. But if you read the text it tells you to make the damn thing. /Laughs

[heavy spruce]

have any of you tried automation? I built a simple count up & down circuit for 30 engines, but game speed is down to 10 seconds per tick

Not 10fps, not 10 seconds per frame, 10 seconds per tick…

the timer is set to delay the next process by 30 ticks, the images were taken 70mins apart.
14 cycles * 30 ticks = 420 --> 10 seconds per tick...

wanted to try waterbeavers on timberpunk 2, the lack of any pine resin was tough, but managed fo get to mid tech, then things broke, so I switched to trying some automation on the same map…

Is there a map like timberpunk 2, but thats a bit smaller/takes less compute?

Beaver dune? Anyone tried WB on it?

is automation coming to WB?

also, lapan, stay safe!

[thorn dune]

what do you mean by "like tp2"? if you want challenge maps with timed explosives making things hard there are quite a few. I'd consider most of them extremely hard even for vanilla though

[ivory fractal]

I think so. Lapan has already mentioned it, but we don't know when it will be. Lapan is also planning some modifications there, such as that the water sensors will be like an upgrade to a water pump lodge.

[cloud flax]

Folkssss have you heard the original timberborn soundtrack orchestra recording!!!! It's giving chills!!!
https://youtu.be/yifY9bnVGXs?si=nvIXUWhCkYwbWFhL

[radiant heart]

i don't get it, what's the point of having 6 workers in the dump, does it dump faster? rather have no worker and haulers doing it, like faster dumping speed would be more releavent then more worker, just my 2 cent

[still frigate]

Not sure about speed of filling but it really helps when the dump is far from the water source.

I start with a lot then lower to 1 or 2 for maintianing.

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber considered that low lvl power source that burns dust and use water a bit, like a tier 1 steam engine? can't make enoughshrooms with all that dust

😛

[still frigate]

I have to have dedicated sawdust chewers to keep up with my mushroom needs.

[heavy spruce]

thats what im looking for, a medium sized challenge map with limited water, something hard for waterbeavers which isnt just endless drought/badtide

[still frigate]

Check out the stuff @crisp parcel has to offer. She may even have a specific suggestion for you to match your criteria. I love her maps and play them as often or more than my own.

[shell fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/soon-hamster-gif-4508050

[radiant heart]

all those ropes and don't need them for the balloon? how does it hold to the basket? unicorn magic glue?

[shell fiber]

Aren't they part of the balloon item recipe?

[shell fiber]

Wasn't that an issue about refusing to use the proper sawmill ? 😅

[thorn dune]

the others I know that mihgt work are "Beaver Endgame" and the "Dune" ones. All near th top of the maps forum here.
Haven't checked the Dune ones but beaver endgame is extremely difficult, all water arrives by pressure and bombs will blow out the pressurised tunnels. you'll need to move very quick. it might still just be possible with wb due to them being able to more easily build up to avoid badtide floods

of course you'll have a lot of flooded unoccupied houses then, so don't show lapan any screenshots 😉

[still frigate]

I did Beaver Endgame as WhitePaws. That is one of Janleon's maps.

[thorn dune]

well done. I think I died very quick and didn't want to try again but it did look possible

curious, did you build a pit tower down into the hole or something else?

[still frigate]

I had beaten it as LeafCoats I believe, so I had unlocked alternate start. I found one that I survived. /laughs

[thorn dune]

haha! yes the far corner is pretty safe

[still frigate]

Nope. Corner starts all killed me. /laughs

See the patch of sequoias on the right? I started near there but on the plateau.

Earlier stages of that colony:

[radiant arch]

suspiciously peaceful 🤔

[still frigate]

Oh, it had its bad times. Some nearly wiped me

[still frigate]

Two bad tides back-to-back are wreaking havoc on this one.

My poor chestnut trees

[radiant arch]

the brambles seem happy 🤔

[still frigate]

The other side is flooded

[still frigate]

Something has to be. /laughs

[radiant arch]

that's a nice map design! easy to see everything, hard to guess what can go wrong ?

[still frigate]

I brought water to the wasteland at the top. Once I cut some more dead out I'll make a chestnut grove up there.

[still frigate]

Thank you. It is my latest experiment.

It is the one I had to crank up the water flow at the starting area to be playable with WhitePaws.

I think I have about 10 more cycles before the main high water sources activate. Not sure what will and wont be working then.

[radiant arch]

really should have some crappy hamster wheel .. to give 10hp per beaver or so for those cases.

[still frigate]

And the one geothermal I gave this map is such a pain to get to.

I even gave a tunnel to get there, but actually using it? /laughs

!!!
More chestnuts survived than I expected.

Yikes.

50% workforce.

With WhitePaws what contamination level do you wait for before closing the dam back up?

I'm currently scripted at 1%

It has been 23 days and we still have 4% contamination.

A drought hit. Back up to 5% contamination.

@radiant arch I forgot to tell you: the advanced repelling rope worked great for building up! I used it for this.

[thorn dune]

wow, I 'm shocked. I thought that top left corner in yours was easy looking. just one badwater bomb chain to block off in advance and you're safe

[radiant arch]

strongly depends on the reservoir tbh. on a quickly flowing river it's much different than a huge slow ocean.. often go by what works in the situation with no fixed rule

[thorn dune]

just had a triple badtide on pristine lake (non wb) and wow it hurts

[still frigate]

@radiant arch @shell fiber Did you know brambles could override the replant order of a lumberjack if they hadn't done it yet???

[still frigate]

Those are hell and a half!

[radiant arch]

not did in U7 did they?

[still frigate]

This is sloooooow water for certain.

[radiant arch]

usually marking a field for planting / crop worked..

[still frigate]

Marking works to keep them at bay but not

[radiant arch]

oh. that did work on unmarked tiles too?

never knew. always marked them for planting, but not cutting

[still frigate]

These are pines for resin so they weren't marked for cutting. They were killed by bad water.

[radiant arch]

and the tile stolen by bramble was marked for planting?

i knew they can spawn into spots with dead stumps. but not to dead grown trees nor marked tiles

[still frigate]

it had been previously planted, so the soil was black. But the tree was dead.

I second that!

I'm not gonna flag it as a bug... more just a surprise.

Now this... this makes sense. A berry jumped into a cut bramble space that it hadn't spread back into.

[radiant arch]

yeah, it's tricky to combine those without marking tiles

[still frigate]

I was avoinding fences to save land. /laughs

[radiant arch]

if they not get contaminated path can work to limit the berries

[thorn dune]

yeah I use paths to stop things spreading into brambles

[radiant arch]

gotta protect the brambles!

[still frigate]

I need to bet balloons going and get the tree farm. I want the GOOD brambles then set them free to go wild!

They cut faster, they spread faster, and you get twice the yield.

[thorn dune]

I do like a game where stuff gets orders of magnitude easier as you progress
I need to finish my game of Py in factorio

[still frigate]

Played factorio long before timberborn. @brave ivy is supposedly known from his factorio mods.

[thorn dune]

yes, very well known for early factorio mods

[still frigate]

Timberborn isn't showing anymore???

timberborn: jan 23, 2022 - given to me as a gift

So I was at U1, not U0.

Also played a lot of Dyson Sphere Program, Oxygen Not Included, and the demos and playtests of Sintopia.

[shell fiber]

If they are not part of dams it's fine 😉

[shell fiber]

Are you sure it wasn't already there or something ? Otherwise that's pretty neat 😅

But not by me

[shell fiber]

If only I had more time to play 😅

[radiant heart]

lol, i have the proper sawmill up, did it quite fast that time around 😉

[radiant heart]

maybe i missed it, gonna have to double check next time i crack open the game

[wary panther]

whitepaws 1.0 says missing required mod: "Tobbert.Ladder" in the in-game mod manager, but doesn't list the dependency in steam workshop...

[shell fiber]

thanks ! i just added it
it's not actually vital thankfully,

[shell fiber]

was there anything that urgently needed correcting ?
i tried the sluice lodge again, but right now i'm still failing to reproduce @still frigate 's issue

@still frigate do you have a save that does it that loads on a minimal mod setup ?

[radiant arch]

haven't had time to play all week

[shell fiber]

oh, right there was the roof of the sluice house

[still frigate]

I made those edits you suggested and it doesn't happen anymore. still wont control water flow either.

If you need, I did backup the file before I did the edits. I could restore it, load a minimal build (11 in total counting white paws) and try to trigger the error. Please let me know.

[shell fiber]

well on my side it works just fine, so it's really hard to understand what is the cause of your troubles, so if you have something i can try to load up i can try to see what's the issue.

but realsitically this should be caused by some other mod or something being out of date 🤔

[radiant heart]

popcorn not beeing there but i guess it's not "urgent" only been rambling about it since U4 😛 ( hope you're having a good start of your wee)

[still frigate]

And on mine it crashes when setting flow to 0, still.

Despite the name, this is only 11 mods. To crash I simply set flow to zero and let it run about 3-10 seconds.

I am gonna try that save on my laptop, just on the off-chance something is corrupted on my desktop that I stream from a lot.

It crashed on my laptop too!

One last idea. I just did a steam verify game files on my laptop. Trying 1 more time...

[shell fiber]

i really wonder what the hell is going on, but with that i'll probably be able to debug it, thanks !

[still frigate]

it does still crash even after verifying game files.

[radiant heart]

been doing some windowshopping on the workshop to get some old mods i had back in, landed on the "dispensary" that could be a good complement for the brain boosting salts 🤣 ( seems broken atm but sure will want to try and smack that in )

[ivory fractal]

My game crashed too. The problem is the flipped version of the building. In normal orientation everything worked fine. But flow rate 0 in the flipped building causes a crash.
Also, the arrow for the direction of the water is in the wrong place. First image is normal version, second image is flipped version.

[shell fiber]

Ooohh, i forgot to try this 😱

[cloud flax]

@radiant heart if you haven't already, look at these too:
https://discord.com/channels/558398674389172225/1477687589434687568

[radiant heart]

are they WB compatible, i'm beeing carefull what i put in for mods since a lot of them don't like the WB

[radiant arch]

the ropes too

all made for WB first

[radiant heart]

aren't we supposed to get a free metal cauldron from the kart?

[still frigate]

yes.

Mine always end up in the basic paper maker until I have unlocked factories to make more.

[radiant heart]

ok, so i guess mine got deleted withing 15 days because i didn't build the thing?

are fermentation barrels supposed to work without workers? cauz the description doesn't say it and the timer is running even if no one is in there, i'm confusuion right now

[still frigate]

If you set maximum priority to the rubble pile that has all 4 specials, they will usually end up safe in the new district center. Or make the special storage for them.

[radiant heart]

on that one it's just me beeing a total idiot, had a papermill up already but forgot and was trying to build "my first one"

[still frigate]

Done that

[woeful sun]

oooff, that's a new soft-lock.

Can the district center store stuff that has to go into glorious storage?

[wary panther]

Yeah, since 1.0 builders can pick up any kind of rubble and take it to the district center

Only in small quantities, but any type

(you do have to let them do it, of course - if you keep them tasked with higher priority things to build, the timer can run out)

Question whether this is a soft-lock or just bad luck/intended suffering... more or less following the tutorial (at the ironworks stage now), I have like 5 diseased beavers, 3 injured, and a couple minor burns. Out of ~30 total. The Alchemist, and all the kinds of medical beds, are all science-locked. So we're just meant to muddle along with 1/3 of the workforce incapacitated until I can get the library going, right?

I'm not missing some lower-level way to treat the walking wounded?

[radiant heart]

as far as i can tell wounded are doomed untill you get a way to treat them

( that dam basic balm)

[still frigate]

Yes. Now.

[radiant heart]

Follow me for more dumb ways to die 😛

[woeful sun]

Either that or...

[radiant heart]

you do you, i'll just judge in silence 🫣

[wary panther]

Earned. Happy Fun Land(tm) is under construction. We just can't support 20 invalids with 14 healthy workers

[radiant heart]

lol, i get the feeling

as much as i want to push for growth, the medicare gonna have to come before

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber Nope, no ropes on the ballon unless it's a "hidden feature"

[heavy spruce]

oooooh endgame sounds like what im after! Thanks

[shell fiber]

the injuries you get early on are quite minor (often -0.2 or -0.3) they will heal in 5-10 days, which takes a while but is not a death sentence.

[shell fiber]

have you been hacking at thorns with them ? 😅
or too much working in the mines ?

[radiant heart]

HO, my bad, tought it was in the red item "balloon" that you make in the handicrafter that it would be required, not at the building stage, nvm

[shell fiber]

No you're correct, that's where I though it would be too. I knew I had put it somewhere

[radiant heart]

i can't find the lemonade stand, was that removed too?

[cloud flax]

Yep

[radiant heart]

😭 just the description was hillarious

and the baobabs were cool too

[radiant arch]

never seen the baobabs..

lemonade stands been in separate mod for U7 still

same with lemon trees

[cloud flax]

You thought the giant soqoias were the largest??
You should have seen the might of a 5x5 tree in its prime

Beavers coming and sitting under it's shade

Taking generations of care and beaver love to grow

[radiant arch]

why no more?
(as much pain it is to make a simple tree even)

[cloud flax]

Toooo many models and too less utility iirc

[radiant arch]

could have hung lanterns into the branches..

[radiant heart]

that tent was awesome too

[radiant arch]

that would actually be fairly easy to remake 🤔

not like i got time, just might be fun to have a festive tent or something to put benches below. and the fire really adds to the charm

[radiant heart]

that's where the deluxe stew was made

[radiant arch]

the stew source is much fancier nowadays. plus ingredients updated too

[radiant heart]

RIP Giant tanks 🙁 i'll leave that here for future generations to enjoy

(trying to dig out a screen cap of the baobab)

[radiant heart]

here you go, one alive on the left and the deaad version on the right

[radiant arch]

wow, those are cool!

[radiant heart]

iirc they were like 200 logs if you chop them down or could harvest water from them with a ???

[radiant arch]

nice use of bridges too!

[radiant heart]

that was on my 1000 island run, that one was insane, frames were clearly not included at the end, had to run the game at 1x

[radiant arch]

yeah, that's still the norm for me on medium sized maps..

thanks for digging out old pics of this mod!

[radiant heart]

you're welcome, got a couple more but don't want to flood the channel

just sadly i was not recording/streaming back then and lost all the saves

no way to look back at those except the few images i got left

[radiant arch]

i wont mind some more spamming 🙂

[radiant heart]

wonder how high it can go now

[radiant heart]

you might like that one, lemon canyon, hard mode and keeping the kart there

probably the hardest run i did with the WB

the nuclear power was something else too

[radiant arch]

that looks insane!

and fun!

[radiant arch]

got to around 120s usually. 140s was in with some mods i think (like frog statue). but some small changes since U7 i wonder

[cloud flax]

Remember the fruit bar, the triangular overhang building!?!

[radiant heart]

yeah, must have that somewhere too but got a few things to fix need to leave memory lane for a bit, can try and dig one of that one too later if you want

[wary panther]

Well, I started the downward spiral by hacking at a Relic (which is apparently also very dangerous, but understandably so)

Realized my problem and stopped, but then an exploding core went off I hadn't realized was coming and dumped badwater into an area, so I got a bunch of unwell/contaminated beavers

and then apparently lost a couple of RNG rolls in rapid succession and got like 8 more injuries in a row

But I think mostly it was just a series of unforunate coincidences. We had to make some hard choices (if you can't work, you don't eat!) but seem to have pulled through

We've been more stable since, maybe ~3 injuries at a time.

[radiant heart]

?

@shell fiber think we are missing some vital tools....

[woeful sun]

heh, you got Punked?

[radiant heart]

the 1 seems doable but that.... been staring at it for at least an hour and... nope, don't see a way

looks fun tho but no idea how the other factions work

like last time i played non-WB was maybe between U4 and U5 because lapan was fixing stuff and the faction not available

those weirdos with buildings that are not watertight... what a pathetic excuse of a beaver

anyway, gonna sleep on it and see what tommorow brings... i guess lemon canyon is broken since there are no more lemons and those ruins?

[livid zephyr]

And here I am, happy to be able to do normal on the old speak mountain map that has some bad water added in...

[radiant arch]

everblossoms are 1 tile bigger than oaks they replace, so they can change map or vanish on new game

[thorn dune]

yeah no way to get the second aquifer up in time after the first explodes. it's a shame but not really fixable for WB I think.
If a map designer makes a research time trial it just won't work

[shell fiber]

i would have assumed the eery glow would have been quite a giveaway 😅

[shell fiber]

well, who did drive the cart in the middle of a giant polluted crater ? 😉😉

what the hell is this map ? there doesn't seem to be a drop of clean water 🤔

[shell fiber]

for now i suppose so, i'll see what i'll do with the more plants mod once i'm done with the automation for the faction

what i'm sure of, is that i won't bring back the sky island things, it causes too many problems by screwing with the game's assumptions. but i still might keep the glowing crystals because some people really like them 😉

[thorn dune]

theres a store of water and berries for you and yes you need to get the ancient aquifer working asap to generate water.
then the bomb under it explodes and you need to build your own aquifer to keep alive. can't remember the timing, 50 days I think?

[shell fiber]

and i kind of want to try making some other custom factions, but i don't know if i want to bog myself in an other two year project 😅

[shell fiber]

oh, Of course it explodes 🤣

what happens then actually ? it just vanishes and the drill remains but inactive ?

[thorn dune]

I do like the new map making style we've got with 1.0 but if I'm honest I like the old map style better 😄

no the floor with the aquifer port vanishes, and the ancient aquifer

you have to have researched and built a replacement on the second open aquifer point nearby before it blows

[shell fiber]

well crap i kind of want to try now 😅

[thorn dune]

it's fun! it's a great map, though a bit heavy. scrolling down through the hight levels is a bit chuggy on my pc

[shell fiber]

oh, right, before i poke at other factions, where were we with seasons @radiant arch ?

sorry i made you work on this and then the proverbial shit hit the proverbial fan 😅

[radiant arch]

having conflicted conscious about it not done too.
now @lament axle reboots his own seasons implementation and i'm conflicted about making what would be pretty similar

still want to see them. and debating if i should just go with the minimal approach and do just exactly what we came up with and call it a day

than migrate to DarkEyeDragon version if that is ready and has more features

technically i have everything to bring it back in 2-3 weeks i'd say

[shell fiber]

oh, okay, i see, we have only one pre-existing drill, the other ones are blueprint-locked, and both the steam vents and the drill will be destroyed by unstable cores.

which means the only possible way to survive is to evacuate the crater to a place were aquifer drills are still present 🤔

[thorn dune]

unless the map change there should be 3 usable aquifer drill points after the explosions

the bigger issue for wb is you cna't shower in stored water 😅

[shell fiber]

do you have a link to what he's doing ?

i don't want to have people fighting over who does what

but ultimately anything goes

[radiant arch]

only had some random short exchanges. an he made it to textures at least #🤖mod-creators message

[thorn dune]

these are the 3 remaining aquifers in the crater on the version of the map I played

[shell fiber]

oh, ah, yeah i remember. i don't want to talk ill, but hasn't he been poking at thisn for nearly two years without ever completing it ? 😬

[shell fiber]

what about those ?

[thorn dune]

oh yeah but they're outside the crater so that's endgame 😄
once you get out of the crater you're sort of ok. there's some bomb danger but you shoudl survive

[shell fiber]

i wonder if i can make the ancient aquifer drills be a building that drops an aquifer drill blueprint once you destroy it 🤔

although that would dramatically change the maps difficulty

[lament axle]

Don't let me stop you from making your own thing. I'm still far off from anything actually playable. My mod would essentially be an entire overhaul of the game

It's a free world. And I would be happy to see what you come up with

[shell fiber]

i see. 😊
well it's also for the sake of limiting player confusion if several mods attempt doing the same thing that's not optimal

basically the gist of it was to have 4 seasons, each affecting the chance and length of wet/drought/badtide seasons. with the addition of luke's custom rain or flood season iirc

[radiant arch]

well, i can migrate it later or we merge some fun features

i'll make mine ready. and we see

[shell fiber]

it's also mostly thought for playing with this faction, since a full playthrough roughtly takes ~80 cycles

and we wouldn't want the seasons to change too fast

but that can be tweaked depending on the factions

[lament axle]

In my version seasons would be fixed length like real life. And in the season you have weather events like floods and droughts and maybe other things based on the season they are in. Getting longer over time like vanilla does

Finding an optimal length for those seasons is hard though

The alternative is to scale them and make them dynamic based on those weather events making spring and autumn shorten over time

[shell fiber]

hmm...i see. we were going for 20 cycles per seasons (unless we count in days directly?🤔) , with some overall effects like plants growing faster in spring, slower in autunm, less water in winter etc.

it's kind of meant to accompany the faction tech progression, winter is going to be super hard, but at the same time by then you probably are researching nuclear power which gives extra water

but i think we can get on it with @radiant arch version and think later

[radiant arch]

i still believe making them more or less 'fixed' by number of days would work better somehow

[lament axle]

Yeah. My mod will def not be faction specific either. So i need to keep all factions in mind when balancing this. You guys do whatever you want honestly. Don't let me stop you ^^

[shell fiber]

thanks !😊

okay, now comming back to the automation, the most important buildings we want are :

• Depth sensor

• Pollution Sensor

• Weather Station

• Ressource Counter

• Relay, but in what shape 🤔

everything else is somewhat secondary, correct ?

secondary but not entirely least concern :

• Flow sensor
• Power Sensor
  🤔

[thorn dune]

you need a relay to do NOT for most of those I think

[shell fiber]

really ?

[thorn dune]

eg. weather station will go ON when badtide, you need a not to close a gate or turn off a building etc.

otherwise you can only turn them on during badtide 🙂

[shell fiber]

can't it be set to "on" during wet season ?

[thorn dune]

yes, but you can't turn them on in wet AND drought for example

to avoid beavers pathing through badtide, which is partly the point

[shell fiber]

hmm...

is there situations in which the sensors do not work ? like the building is paused, flodded, requires science etc ?

[thorn dune]

the sensors have no employees they're fully automated. none I've used have any requirements at all

I've not had any give the flooded state. I use lots underwater, but not every type

[shell fiber]

hmm... about what i expected

i'm going for somethign like this for the depth sensor

[radiant arch]

is it watertight? / blocking

[shell fiber]

yes, it's meant as a variation on the water pump wall upgrade

although to be honest, i'm tempted to just keep the depthgauge and make it glow when on

[radiant arch]

oh, that's awesome! hoped feared it would be a levee

could make the contamination sensor an upgrade to it even?

(i like the visual of the depthgauge)

[shell fiber]

BEHOLD !

the Whitepaws Contamination Sensor :

[radiant arch]

if they turn red, it's bad?

[shell fiber]

presumably 😅

[shell fiber]

(they likely won't actually turn red 🤔)

but the idea is that the sensor is a bunch of cabbages dangling in the river. they determine how polluted it is by looking at the cabbages 🫡

(i'll likely have it consume cabbages too)

problem is that in order to not have "magic" sensors who "just sense things" i have to make them into a pipe from the water pump scripts

[radiant arch]

looks fancy

only my brain is having trouble with the fastening holding the top - would seem wobbly?
might rather hold the middle (flipping it)?

[shell fiber]

hurray !

the bottom is touching the floor properly

[radiant arch]

now, that works too

[shell fiber]

well, erm..

[radiant arch]

weird brain haha

[radiant arch]

dynamite???

[radiant arch]

oh, placing things below makes it weird?

[shell fiber]

yeah

but whatever

i...guess i could improve it, but there would always be situation that make it weird

next i'll try to have the red thingie move up and down it i can

from the gauge

a nyway, gotta go

!

[radiant heart]

beavers had too much wine... not my fault

[radiant heart]

it's Timberpunk2 apparently the hardest map in existence at the moment

[radiant heart]

ok, ty

[cloud flax]

Why it be shining awkwardly?

[radiant heart]

is that a house too?

[shell fiber]

Is it ? What do you mean ?

[cloud flax]

The white walls are not matching the normal pump wall....

[shell fiber]

No. A piece of water pump upgrade

[radiant heart]

good thing i don't have the end peices researched, that would have been science wasted

[shell fiber]

That's not necessarily going to replace them, just fits in the same position

[radiant heart]

quite happy about my first attempt, 15 cycles in place is stable and can basically run forever without the help of the great white pointer in the sky 🤣

was the faction nerfed ?

[shell fiber]

I don't think so 🤔

You're just pretty used to it 😉

[radiant heart]

tought it'd be much harder after 2 years not toutching it, guess it's back to hard mode

think i'll continue with this run a bit to mess around with all the new stuff ( and of course complain about stuff not beeing there like the free science from the treb)

i feel like the new waterfall map is also much easier then the old one, like peek new player friendliness achieved

[wary panther]

The evaluation team just reported the mysterious object was "well-lit".

But they are currently unavailable for comment until they return from their vacation in Happy Fun Land

[shell fiber]

I imagined it would be nice and clearly visible like that, but I can make the lamp indicator be just a larger than usual window is people prefer that 🤔

[still frigate]

The description of this map mentions bad tide will be trouble because of poor drainage. This is two full days after bad tide ended. I'm not sure that WhitePaws are even (realistically) capable of blocking off the water on the second side.

The map isn't even operating at full liquid production yet.

By day 4 the last of the bad water from the under-caverns has been forced into my vanity signature (you can see bits of blue in the letters) and is working its way up to the long lake.

[radiant arch]

maybe instead of carps i should play with making piranhas for your fish tank??

[still frigate]

/laughs! Bad Water piranhas?

[radiant arch]

just so the beavers not feel lonely when all the plants are gone?

area effect of 'bite marks' ?

[still frigate]

I have that bomb that can be beaver triggered, but I'm not ready to try to open up the under-caves. They have a lot of pressure.

[radiant arch]

make a waterproofed chamber, stock food for a lifetime and try just for fun?

[still frigate]

There is a high-water drain near the lake. So anything on the upper plateau will survive it. Normal drains are -10 each. (level 14)

Overflow drains are -66.6 each on level 17 above the main drains.

That (or lower) happens to watch the level I put my district center and most of my civilization.

[radiant arch]

would take a cycle or two to recover?

[still frigate]

Contamination is still 17% at the start of day 11.

[radiant arch]

might not vanish in time for the next one

[still frigate]

I need a stream gauge on the second side. It still looks very red, but rice and lotus are growing fine.

[radiant arch]

can still be deadly for population when they grow

almost lost my settlement to this on one of your older maps

[still frigate]

Yeah. I am expecting a lot of sick beavers.

In Day 14, contamination had dropped to <= 10% and the dam closed. Then, in the middle of the night of the water canons kicked in.

Stream gauge built. The rice and lily fields are at 22% right now.

This can help keep the workers out of the fields until it is "safer".

[wary panther]

Is there a reason the paper mill isn't flippable?

[still frigate]

Cycle 24 is coming to an end and our population has not yet bounced back.

[wary panther]

I know most of the triangle-roof stuff isn't because it breaks the upgrade stacking

[still frigate]

No clue on that one.

@radiant arch You inspired this solution.

1. Dynamite to the bottom. The undercaverns will be unbreeched and the surface will be safe from the pressure.

2. build P&L houses all the way down.

3. tunnel form the bottom P&L house to the undercavern.

4. boom again and break the tank.

One spot where WhitePaws will be easier than the other faction I believe.

I'll need some sort of underwater passthrough for the others... Luke has one. His airlock mod.

[wary panther]

underwater passthrough is also easier for the whitepaws than most - you just have the pass-through lodge (or double-door pit&ladder)

[still frigate]

Yes and no. You can't put a roof on a P&L so you have to be very careful with palcement.

But with the lodges being all waterproof just a regular opening will be enough. Wont need a true passthrough in this case.

Oh! WhitePaws also have the 2x3x1 pass-through lodge. I forget about it all the time.

I made it down! 5 dynamite left and no nitro to make more. /laughs

[radiant heart]

you can see a few on this, ( today on memory lane) 😛

[still frigate]

It was before my time (with this mod) so I wouldn't recognize it.

[radiant heart]

( that's 1000 island, if curious)

[radiant heart]

the blue, yellow and punk balloons together ( like bottom mid of the image) is what we are refering too for the buffet

[still frigate]

cool

[radiant heart]

the ftuiy bar is about the size of the mega sawmill and had a dancehalll included

[still frigate]

wow

The P&L tower to the bottom will require 14 liquid storage houses, for the height. that's 84 more beavers just existing.

I guess technically I could do a single story at the bottom and then a tall ladder up. At least until buildings can flood again.

I can't trust @shell fiber to NOT fix that, so I better make the whole tower. 😛

[radiant heart]

lol, tell me about it, he locked the builder's hut behind breaking the kart just because i wanted to not destroy the kart

[still frigate]

/chuckles

I have triggered such reactions, especially when I was still learning the faction in U7.

I need to stop planting trees in the floodplain. Only quickly recovering crops like sunflowers. (My beavers promise me it isn't for making more dynamite. Not sure I believe them.)

[radiant heart]

don't trust those little guys, they'll blow stuff up before you know it

[still frigate]

I know. Little furry sappers!

I hope this is a 1-off fluke...

70° canon triggered it.

[wary panther]

Is there a waterpoof block (land, levee, etc) right above the landing point?

[still frigate]

The canon was set for bad water. The one set for good water is fine.

[wary panther]

Because there's a crash in the base game that a lot of these custom models risk exposing - mechanical pumps seemingly dump water one block "above" their outlet voxel (presumably so it falls into place). And if that is waterproof, it can't figure out what to do

the base game's model makes occupies that square and make it impossible, but Knatte's pumps, etc have long had this problem, and I think the water cannons are also reskinned mechanical pumps that just have a cooler animation

[still frigate]

This is a different bug. I can't set the outflow height with where I am trying to place it. Experementing....

[wary panther]

Ok. The MutableWaterColumnRetriever.GetColumn just looks a lot like that crash

[still frigate]

it is hitting the ceiling of the cavern and breaking. The one further back seems fine.

Gonna have to switch to the 45° and eat up more farmland.

Here the the point of collision.

A 45° further back looks like it will be okay.

@shell fiber This is a nit pick and you can tell me to go kiss a goat if you don't want to change it (or can't change it), but shouldn't that water be red? 😛

[wary panther]

fixed the elusive valve house crash, caused by flipped versions of the building. the building is non-flippable until the issue in the game code is fixed.

Hope that fix comes before we run out of water

[still frigate]

@shell fiber They are incuring into each other. I'll build a fence.

[still frigate]

@radiant arch This is one of my dirty little tricks. I am manupulating the game mechanics to hide two new bad water sources behind this.

The 2 new good water activate on Cycle 27. day 66.
The 2 new bad water activate on Cycle 27 day 69.

This means the player will only have 3 days notification before the bad water starts! And that was me being nice. I was going to put the bad water on day 66.6 so the players had NO real warning at all. 😈

Nice! Just about got my P&L tower built to the under caverns. I was hoping to blast the tank before these activate. I think I'll make it. 🤞

Sometimes I am not a cleaver as I think I am. 🙁

I was showing my husband how this whole breaking the tank was going to work. So I saved the game then placed the dynamite in dev mode and set it off. NOTHING!

I built this on the bottom of the map. Can't place dynamie that low. It needed to be up 1 level to work right.

The second one will work.

[radiant heart]

@shell fiber Crazy idea of the day, a domesticated bramble that dies becomes a thors.... 🤔

also, detailer?

[still frigate]

In the past @shell fiber had said he didn't like the detailer then asked us if we really wanted one. If my memory is correct, none of us were too bothered about it. Though I think I was the one who brought it up, but just because of a "win" screen listing the number of tails decorated.

Now the I have a nice bright rainbow tail, I wouldn't mind a detailer. /laughs

[livid zephyr]

thats...evil... bet he looks into it... haha

[radiant heart]

well, i want a revote, i wasn't ther 🤣

[radiant heart]

that would be a HUGE bous to having those, they become water barrier like the ones the IT have to build, that is anything but evil unless you have a woopsie

[still frigate]

My initial post: #1070709592176197642 message

Lapan's reply: #1070709592176197642 message

[radiant heart]

100% agree but as a steamer now i'd like to link that to my bot and snap the avatar of chat right there on the tail got all the path to accesss the avatar and bot, just neeed to link it to the tail thing 😛

[wary panther]

Clearly, the way to get lapan on board with the detailer is to be more realistic about it

[radiant heart]

i could put a dick on a tail, final argument

[still frigate]

That argument would probably work against you.

[radiant heart]

i know 🤣

[wary panther]

getting a full-sleeve tattoo over an entire limb like that should take multiple full-day sessions, with substantial time and salve for healing in between.

The eventual bonus could be high, but there's lots of suffering to work through on the way there.

This ain't a carnival face-paint tent

[still frigate]

Do we know if they are tattoos or waterproof dye?

The machanics look like an old silkscreen press to me.

[radiant heart]

so you get it done at the clinic by highly trained nurses?

[wary panther]

(and since we seem to be making the ink from badwater extract, probably some bouts of contamination too)

[still frigate]

Flood time!

Worked as hoped!

The side is breeched!

[wary panther]

No, you get it done at the badwater bucketing post with some sharpened scrap metal you brought. **Then **you go spend time at the clinic

Just sayin', if you want to overcom lapan's

mmeeeeeh...
You gotta work to your audience

[still frigate]

Apparently things are different now. The player gets warned for both. 😭

Welp... reloading... I need to wait for the above water sources to go live before doing this.

1 day lost. Not too bad

[radiant heart]

🤣 alright, that's clearly more lapan's style, at least for the "tier 1" of the tatoo and it's gonna look like nothing 🤣

[still frigate]

I did check. The tails are painted.

[radiant heart]

Napoleon billboard?

[wary panther]

Plus you have to go barter at the artists lodge for to get stencil made of the image

[still frigate]

Paused at a cool moment.

[cloud flax]

Woaaah

[cloud flax]

Artists lodge does seem like a better place than my previous consideration for using RPG games

[still frigate]

@shell fiber How much work would it be to make these stackable so our beavers can have taller and taller dams?

[still frigate]

My beavers have finally survived to the age of giant trees and grapes. Time for giant beetle juice.

[radiant arch]

and giant dams?

[still frigate]

well... that lake is deep. 😛

The 2x3x2 storage lodge houses 3 beavers. So does the 3x3x2 GMO... but it needs a working ENS.

[still frigate]

I wanted to do the whole thing in primitive dams but they don't reach high enough.

[radiant arch]

would be cheating to not use houses 🤫

[still frigate]

Alas, I have crossed the 500 mark.

[still frigate]

The map needs another edit for (almost) purely vanity reasons. I need to fix the bomb position I was talking about earlier, and I need to add two more water sources to keep my vanity signature alive after blowing afore mentioned core. I'll make them strength 8 each to help encourage the player to blow the side of the tank. I am unsure when I want them live, however. No later than cycle 27... but should they come to life earlier?

@radiant arch as a fellow mapmaker, what counsel would you give?

[radiant arch]

sounds like a complex question. would need to see the map. and i never played with the new options yet.

what may work is making a weak one just to fill the signature and activate the strong one later?

cycle 27 .. on normal difficulty whitepaws that's industries time more or less?

[still frigate]

Excellent idea!

[radiant arch]

it might be tricky, as your current effect of "coming doom" from the signature filling up is nice

but around 25th to 30th cycle is still fine to access abyss on a more difficult map imho

[still frigate]

For -me- cycle 27 was starting giant sequoias and having compressed library books for second library and future ENS.

[radiant arch]

depends on map a lot. so i wont know. (likely i play rather fast too)

just assuming someone rushes through it would still work out without limiting the abyss lines imho

[still frigate]

There is a deep ruin under this cap. Might be tricky to get water away from it.

The other 3 are in the undercaverns.

[radiant arch]

that's really sweet of you to add one on top!

[still frigate]

Gotta give the player some hope.

I also like putting in those cap structures, even if there is nothing under them.

(But usually there is something)

[radiant arch]

i like those details too

mix of "hey, there's been something before here" and treasure hunting

[still frigate]

I almost never make a map that doesn't show signs of pre-extinction humans.

Now with the new goodies I want signs even more.

I'm not saying it should be done, but CAN brambles be made immune to bad water?

Something in here perhaps?

[radiant arch]

technically could.. could increase their tolerance to forever easily (like the drought resistance) but not make them immune per default

(immune = continue to grow)

wouldn't be that difficult to make a harmony patch for it though, i guess

[still frigate]

Fascinating. Part of me wants to see this done. But... oh the hate it will ferment.

[radiant arch]

could add vertical spread at the same time..

deep red bramble filled ocean between your beavers and abyss? sure! only takes a week and they got you covered!

[still frigate]

yes yes yes!

ahem... I mean, what an intriguing idea.

ever since a found this mod I wanted this to be able to come true:

If I were redesigning them, I'd actually double or triple their growth in bad water, as well as add universal vertical spread to them.

[radiant arch]

actually should be a fun evening task to script 🤔 the growth boost.
never looked at vertical spread, but i guess someone did this before and could try and upgrade their code

just.. rn i'm making pointless carps to spawn out of decorative water plants and poop on boost some water crops around them..
i'd wonder how pointless that is to the game already..

would you think people would like them enough to share this?

[still frigate]

The fish or the brambles?