Water Beaver Overhaul

[still frigate]

I already blocked one water source. A strong one too. Cost me the use of 6 large water wheels. 😛

Well, they work during bad tide.

The water level rises at least 2 blocks during bad tide.

This will overflow this time.

[cloud flax]

What bout the mine though??

[still frigate]

That is why it needs an alternate drain. Fortunately this map has a lot of mines. But I want to build on all of them as part of the map test.

Yeah, 5 mines on this map.

Okay, I think next drought I'm gonna build a block in this. It should stop the flooding of this area and may even be enough to prevent the banks from being breeched in other areas.

Popping into dev mode for a moment, that is a strength 3.33 badtide drain.

That one drain is what is flooding all of this:

This also appears to be a max-length bad tide for "normal" difficulty.

Not gonna wait for a drought. This bad tide is going to be too long. Calling out for some brave beavers...

They did it very quickly! 2 unwell and 5 contaminated. I think I already had 2 contaminated, so a total of 5 beavers sacrificed their health. Not bad at all. 1.8k PRF in storage so they should recover.

That is a lot of water passing under that one wheel. And 6 of them are getting it.

Well, more or less. The weakest wheel of the 6 is 2072 hp.

[still frigate]

I may have calculated enough water for 1,000 beavers but it wasn't enough for 1.2k of them.

Also, 5 fully powered grand dams are not enough to provide adequate water for my settlement. I've had a good 130+ die of thirst and my drinking water reserves are not filling back up.

[shell fiber]

yep, thanks !
actually i was already working on it yesterday but got interrupted 😅
i also added text entries for an hypothetical 1x1 walkway, but i like making things slightly inconvenient so i'm not sure 🤐

[still frigate]

O.o

😛

[shell fiber]

slightly so, i think some injuries went from 0.05 to 0.04 or something in that vein. which doesn't seem much but actually makes quite a difference since the dice are rolled hourly

[still frigate]

My beavers might argue.

That is actually the lowest it has been in a few cycles since so many died off.

I hope this upcoming drought is a short one. I'm only at 2/3 water towers and my population still hasn't fully recovered.

[shell fiber]

yeah, that is a base game odd behavior, it just works on some needs being good and some being bad, it's not very smart.
that is also why at first i had named that need "filth" rather than clean fur, but then the bath gives filth so... 😑

an other option is simply to remove the filth debuff, it's not an important feature and not being confusing matters more

i'll try to fix that, remind me again if i forget

[still frigate]

The color change being discussed is already live. 🙂

[shell fiber]

thanks ! sorry i responded too slow to fix anything on my side

not sure i understand, i need to add in the mod a blueprint.json saying { "WhitepawsPatchSpec": { "FactionId": "Whitepaws", // single faction only, or "Common" (faction > common) "SwimmingPenalty": -1.0, // -1 would double swim speed; game default is 0.3 or 30% slowdown "WaterUnitsPerVoxel": 8, // amount of water extracted per voxel; default is 5, so 60% more here // 1.0 only "HideNeedApplicationProbability": true, // skip probabilities in need application descriptions (i.e. workshop injury rates etc) // "HideNeedApplicationProbabilityLocKey": "EffectProbability.Hidden", // dummy is set to "Chance of: {0}" with the need display name for {0} } }?

ah, i see... okay, well i need to make the building a pure entertainment then...

[radiant arch]

technically that would be the way.
since you asked for it later i added this exact json to my script pack, so these are set now.
if you want to change them you can still override it i guess.

[radiant arch]

this is another odd one.. i not touched it yet..
these are continuous effects - versus the chance effects in the other one..
base game assumes any of those is always green! gives hunger? injury? pain? -> all green Basic Needs: Hunger haha

actually will fix it should lapan make a hamster wheel 🙂

(i don't think there's any negative continuous / area effect for now? beside the hidden statue of pain?)

[still frigate]

treadmill! 😛

[shell fiber]

pretty sure it always has been ?🤔

okay, i managed to catch up to there for now

[still frigate]

Alas... maximum length drought just started. 😭

At least they got the towers refilled... and I managed to squeeze in a 6th grand dam.

[radiant arch]

kimchi, sake, juice and beer towers next?

berry juice still has the best thirst-to-water ratio imho

[still frigate]

Bad water happened next.

[shell fiber]

so this is whith nothing directly above the intakes ?

[still frigate]

Really?! I never make it. Just grape and wine.

[still frigate]

Yep. Just lots of water and open sky.

[radiant arch]

i forget about it too.. always... but it's sooo good!

[shell fiber]

i think i kept he impremeable floor feature, and i could indeed make a Mk3 primitive dam 🤔

[still frigate]

I'll get there in time... 😛

[still frigate]

Oh, I wish I had known you kept it.

[shell fiber]

i don't thing that is realistically doable, but with platfomrs and ground tiles...

[still frigate]

I came up with another solution and even used primitive dams to help get there.

Gotta wait for the next bad tide to make sure it works then I'll excavate a nice huge rice farm.

[radiant arch]

satisfying thirst needs this much water (per day)

1.2  farmed berries juice
1.7  GMO berries juice
1.8  sake/ lemonade
1.95 beer/ tea
2.13 pumped water

[shell fiber]

ah, great ! thank you ! 😊

[shell fiber]

hmm, no i think i removed all of them

[still frigate]

I haven't seen lemonade back in 1.0.

[shell fiber]

indeed

[radiant arch]

oh, right..

will it come back?

[shell fiber]

well there is a limit to how many food / drinks a beaver can consume before the needs of the first one has decayed by the time you got to the last one

i had calculated i think the limit was 8 or 9, and i was already to that point

of course there is workarounds, like making cafes/terraces that consume the good in the same manner med beds consume medication, or like the agora consuming exctract or whatever in vanilla factions.

[radiant arch]

isn't there only three drinks rn? sake, beer and tea?

i like the cafe/terrace idea tbh

lemonade and parfait 🙂

[radiant arch]

oh, there was wine too. right..

so would be 6 with lemonade.. yeah.. is much for one beaver to drink..

[still frigate]

It doesn't show as a drink.

[radiant arch]

it's not good for thirst, no. just found it anice combination for a cafe

[shell fiber]

ah, here it is

[shell fiber]

it is, but that's not all, fruits are also actually taken as drinks in my math, like berries can (should ?) be filled by berry juice so effectively berries should be seen as a drink

i think there's others too, but i removed coconut / ananas juice quite a while ago, so maybe my math is off by now

[still frigate]

Currently it is not reporting them as affecting thirst.

[shell fiber]

yes, but berry juice is 🙂

[radiant arch]

it's about the juice here

[still frigate]

Gotcha. I got lost.

[radiant arch]

you get 4 happy beavers per berry with juice

[shell fiber]

a tiny thing in 3 clicks :

[radiant arch]

you visualised the spacer for the medium badwater pump?

[shell fiber]

yeah, i slapped the thing i had made for the dam drain house on it and called it a day 😅

[radiant arch]

actually reviewing berry juice and wonder if it's bad to use..

actually cereal bars are almost as efficient (0.28 vs 0.25 berries per beaver and day) but serve sunflower need

and i'm not sure there's much food that serves sunflower need?

can only find the seeds and the cereal bar..

but that would make berry juice a no-need basically

[shell fiber]

hmm... good point

[still frigate]

Should berry jucie still be made as a general thirst quencher though?

[radiant arch]

if berries need is full they wont drink it

[still frigate]

Ah!

[radiant arch]

if you only serve berry need using it, it is great

but you'd need to skip cereal bars and thus need much more sunflower seeds

[shell fiber]

hmm... so the conclusion is that we could remove berry juice and replace it with somethign else, possibly lemonade 🤔

but if you think about it... maybe glowing fluid is drinkable ?🤔

[radiant arch]

i would think it might be that.

[shell fiber]

ooh, that would look neat in ice creams 😅

[radiant arch]

i wont ask for the burgers now..

[still frigate]

My berries need is being about 2/3 met currently.

[shell fiber]

hmm... amazing, my attempted fix worked exactly as i planned 😅

if you add an impermeable floor above the input, it always contaminates water 🧐🧐

[radiant arch]

you can make mad science labs now!

[still frigate]

Someone who knows about this bug can use to to make their own badwater when a source isn't convenient.

I'm not saying that is a good thing. 😛

[shell fiber]

well this thing strongly annoys me, and i'm afraid the sluice remains the only option😑

[still frigate]

I wanted it as much for the power passthrough as I did the water passthrough. /laughs

The power-passing primitive dam can't make a tight seal in something like the side of a giant reservoir

[radiant arch]

cant? if you seal all the edged with dirt it not makes a sealed 1x1 tunnel?

[still frigate]

Maybe I need to experiment with it more.

[radiant arch]

given anything less complex would make it a proper levee i fear

[still frigate]

A 4x2x1 passthrough lodge that also has a lane for power? 🤣

we have the 3x2x1 for just beavers.

[radiant arch]

you could use the giant sawmill too

that allows passing shafts long distance

[still frigate]

Nope. That top log woudl prevent the seal.

So far, the only two ones I can think of are the large bad water pump and the drain house.

[radiant arch]

advanced sawmill

[still frigate]

I'm looking at it. it wont work.

[radiant arch]

well, it's hard to fit it in haha

[still frigate]

It's power ports are all on the back. And you couldn't put it through sideways

Well... maybe just the tip of one end... but that would be rough to make work.

[radiant arch]

you'd need to block a tunnel off, but it passes some distance. your options are more sane though

[still frigate]

These are nearly perfect for it. Had to add a regular passthrough lodge on top of one to get beavers to the other side.

I did that one in dev mode. To do it live, the upper pass-through would need to be one block forward so it could be built without draining the entire reservoir.

The first one I made was done correctly and had no spillage and no dev mode. It just also had the bug. /laughs

[radiant arch]

utility dam works if you have a 1x1 hole in front - but you need it upgraded to not spill

[still frigate]

Yeah, I'll have to play with that a bit...

Gonna go it in dev mode just to see...

[radiant arch]

well, it's a 4x4x3 construction with two sides solid dirt (and one hole each) to passthru shafts and path. but it does work

[still frigate]

Wouldn't this work? And then once it was in place you go through to the other side with a regular passthrough lodge and blast out the rest of the tunnel?

Only the lowest level would have the tunnel all the way through.

After the dam was finished building of course.

[radiant arch]

technically works if you not need the path too, yes

just needs 3 height to fit the dam upgrade i wonder?

[still frigate]

The path is side to side and useless in this scenario.

[radiant arch]

if you put it one deeper into the wall you could zig-zag path / shaft

not needing the lodge

[still frigate]

Assuming your wall is thick enough like mine.

Hrm...

[radiant arch]

well, actually, if you have space in front, you not need to put the dam itself inside the wall at all to just pass either. only needs it to pass both

[radiant arch]

would work technically

[still frigate]

I think I see what you are saying... but this way would ONLY be power. You'd still need a second building for the beaver passthrough. Which is fine.

[radiant arch]

what a fun way to build platforms 🙂

[still frigate]

I think, in this case, I like the space-invader looking one.

[cloud flax]

Place where I use the giant log and the all around platform around it, place scaffoldings atop of it and then place the dame

[still frigate]

I'd need to see it. I'm failing to envision it.

[cloud flax]

The way in which statue of Dunkin are placed

[still frigate]

bottom level and front views.

[naive tide]

what that bug is so broken that it can cause badwater from nothing?!

[still frigate]

Yes.

[ivory fractal]

I have a question, maybe a request. Is there an elegant (simple) way to get power across a river/abyss about 10 blocks wide?
My current solution is shaft down, shaft on the ground and then shaft up. This works, but I'd like to have a shaft visible above and not drowned somewhere in the depths.
Another solution is a lot of platforms from the ground to the top layer and then build the shaft straight in the top layer. But the plaform wall doesn't look very nice. You can help a little with squewer platforms, but that's only 1 block long so it won't help much.
The third solution is the gigantic pillars and "Lapantouflemagic.GiantLogBridge4.DisplayName" (btw another missing name), which is quite an expensive solution for a simple task.
Overhang platforms are not here and I can't think of any other solution. Or am I overlooking something?

[still frigate]

WHAT?! I forgot this was hiding down here! 🤣

[ivory fractal]

Now to my request, would it be possible to make a copy of the suspension bridge (all lengths 1-6), where instead of a path would be a straight shaft? @shell fiber
In the picture I tried to represent my idea.

[still frigate]

Make an arch out of platforms is the closest way you could do it inexpensively.

[radiant arch]

there was a mod for those, but is not updated - https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/power-shaft-extensions

[still frigate]

That hasn't worked in a long time has it?

[radiant arch]

would solve nox's problem too

[still frigate]

I looked at it! 🤣

[radiant arch]

worked fine in U7 i believe

[ivory fractal]

Ok, the arch is acceptable solution. But I still like the idea of a suspension shaft bridge.

[still frigate]

I thought it stopped working in U6 or mid-U7?

[ivory fractal]

Yeah, I used that mod before, but it looks abandoned, it hasn't been updated to version 1.0

[radiant arch]

actually would be nice to have an upgrade like that 🤔

[still frigate]

I seem to remember there being a reason Lapan didn't want those, but I can't remember what.

[radiant arch]

oh, you can warp power through air with the tunnel since u7

[radiant arch]

might actually be a fun mod to just provide that feature.. updating bridges to carry shaft..

[shell fiber]

there's a mod for that, except i didn't restore it for 1.0 yet 😓

[ivory fractal]

If the plan is to bring the mod with bridges and tunnels for power back to life, that would be fine. Although tunnels are probably not needed because the tunnel can be created using dynamite.

[shell fiber]

the fixed sluicehouse would be looking like that i think.

not the most beautiful building but that will do

or i could litterally just slap an actual sluice next to a lodge, but let's keep the power shaft going through it

[still frigate]

This prevents the bad water bug?

[shell fiber]

well, it woudl litterally be a sluice so i hope so

[still frigate]

Sorry, I seem to be a bit slow tonight. /laughs

[shell fiber]

no problem

uuh, what ?

[radiant arch]

it's reversing direction??

[ivory fractal]

If the entrance is from a tank with bad water, then it is quite a harsh working environment.

[shell fiber]

It seems that the sluice script assumes "South" is the water reservoir while "North" is the output (in terms of 3d models directions)

Nothing I can't work around with enough wall head bashing

[radiant arch]

i may join in a minute...

[shell fiber]

Oh I'm away from the computer right now

[radiant arch]

just figured i can make rope ladder exclude DC range using a simple path-misalign trick..

weirdly it still works for any other worker, just not builders/ haulers haha

[still frigate]

An -ABSURD- amount of time and dynamite later and I have finished the landscaping for my mega rice farm. Irrigated though my vast lily farm from my grand reservoir.

[radiant arch]

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/rappelling-ropes alpha release of rappelling ropes (also on steam)

in case they are missed

[cloud flax]

Ayeee

Any patch needed for tori gates And lanterns

[radiant arch]

can't reach the person that made the mod and it never updated, so.. sadly, no

sadly not my strong point to make 3d models either to remake it.. 🙁

[sullen cape]

The things I do to avoid scaffolding stacks 😂

At least it costs metal for the ladders 😇

[shell fiber]

beaver should be able to directly climb the giant logs no ?

[sullen cape]

In some places, I need to build on top of paths etc

Well the Aquaduct for badtides works!

Heh maybe this platform should have been a temporary giant log 😅

[shell fiber]

it was actually easier than i would have thought

[cloud flax]

What building night this be!?!

Sluice house?

Yayyy

[ivory fractal]

In what direction does it work? Which side is the input and output?

[radiant arch]

i wonder.. the original sluice would face towards the door?

so inlet is on the (safe) backside

[cloud flax]

Hopefully

[shell fiber]

yes, inlet is in the back

i'm working on the brand new "LyophilizedArtificialNaturalDirtBlock" ™

[radiant arch]

includes a need to sacrifice a beaver for each?

[thorn dune]

ah yes, so I can start building them all when the drought starts to save water. great idea

[shell fiber]

i unfortunately couldn't find a good way to do that 😅

and the actual terrain block just requires 100 water in addition to the compacted block

which is made in the hot nuclear press because that is indeed fitting

i really eyeballed the values but the rock/dirt ratio is the same as the drills

and it's stored in glorious storages

[radiant arch]

nice!

given rock can only really come form drills it's perfectly balanced still

[sullen cape]

Oh my gosh the Sluice house 😂

Yay

[thorn dune]

noo my iron teeth dirt trade is nerfed

[cloud flax]

Is baralled water still a thing? Maybe that can be used instead of water just to make it more painful ☠️

[cloud flax]

This is gonna be hell ☠️

Is there any plans for large glorious storage 🥹

[shell fiber]

i've increased the storage to 25 for now 🙂

[shell fiber]

no, barrelled water has been send back to its very own layer of hell

[cloud flax]

And there shall be some more happiness 🎉

[sullen cape]

Damn, I liked storing it too 🤣

Costs a lot to make and then use though

[silver phoenix]

has anyone had this issue in V1, whenever you disable the Whitepaws, you are unable to load the main window?

[radiant arch]

this is hard to read - do you have any other copy of whitepaws active? (there's multiple mods now on steam)

[silver phoenix]

I made sure to disable all old mods before trying out v1

see here also #🚀mod-users message

same error but this shows up after deleting whitepaws altogether

it doesn't appear when whitepaws is activated

[radiant arch]

does it still occur when you remove the ModdableTimberborn mod?

[silver phoenix]

I'll try

[radiant arch]

all i can read from this is that some mod is trying to access a material collection with Whitepaws ID - that not can exist without the mod
just not which mod this might be

[silver phoenix]

actually now that you said it, the mod in question is Decorative Plants

because I allowed it to use the plants for whitepaws

disabling that one fixed the issue

[radiant arch]

sounds like a tricky mod to use when still wanting to switch other mods on and off..

[silver phoenix]

im just starting to use v1 so I still need to sort out my mods

[radiant arch]

solution would be to make whitepaws comaptible with other factions?

so you not need to disable them each time?

(it's a pain, but technically should be possible with 1.0. just not sure lapan will like the idea)

[silver phoenix]

i like the whitepaws assets, not the mechanics

maybe one time in the future

[shell fiber]

fixed that

[shell fiber]

let me try to push an update real quick

[shell fiber]

not issue on my side, but i'm not sure i understand what that mod does

anyway, see you all later ! have fun lyophilizing dirt blocks 😅

[cloud flax]

Yayyyyy

I can terraform now hehehe

[radiant arch]

this mod allows to place plants as decorations. in this case whitepaw plants.
another one would allow to duplicate buildings, as to copy whole structures.
so, nothing to do with whitepaws.

what i meant before i understood what was the problem was making whitepaws not conflict with any other faction.
rn i need to disable all faction mods to play whitepaws and disable whitepaws to play any other faction.
problem being whitepaws overrides collections, goods, etc for any faction.

besides the fact that it's not possible to copy structures out of whitepaws for other factions.
this also kinda takes me few minutes extra each time i want to switch faction (can't do without restart and selecting mods in long long list)
which is a little tedious to do when testing tbh

with 1.0 this wouldn't be needed technically by moving from "override all" to "blueprint modifier"

just to note it

some preview @cloud flax
if this is acceptable visually and aesthetically (?)
i might share this and slowly make a gate or some

what i not yet figured out is how to make a glow cycle around it

[cloud flax]

Ayeeee looks pretty!

[radiant arch]

like towards the ground

[cloud flax]

Though I mostly wanted lights to be illuminated in the long tunnel roads, so wanted the ground based lanterns

[radiant arch]

would a small stone lantern work?

[cloud flax]

Maybe make the pole same as the crappy platform pink colour? Not sure how it might look through

[radiant arch]

kinda thinking about a paper lantern to attach to walls too, but rather at 1.2m height / little bigger was my plan..

not thought about tunnels or platforms really..

[cloud flax]

This could allow to decorate houses!!! Have a festival area!!!

[radiant arch]

good point.. this one was supposed to match torii gates and all factions.. so it should look exotic

[radiant arch]

this lantern is about 1.2m high btw.

[cloud flax]

Sureee. My mind is teeminng with so many ideas!

[radiant arch]

i'll make a mod to discuss them there 🙂

[cloud flax]

Yeah, for tunnels it would need to be under 1, or have a seperate 1x1 building... Glowing fluid lamp hehehe

Lapan was talking bout beavers drinking glowing fluid right? Can't you mix enriched uranium with glowing fluid and maybe some flavours to make an energy drink XD

It would be hilarious lmao

Gives working speed bonus 100%< movement speed bonuse 100% carrying cap bonus 100% life expectancy -10/20%

[radiant arch]

would be fun to lose a year each time they drink it haha

[cloud flax]

Gonna go back to work
Feel free to ping if needed though

[shell fiber]

Tbh I still don't know what this "blueprint modifier" thing is. I think I heard a few times that name though

[radiant arch]

    "FactionSpec": {
        "BlueprintModifiers#append": [
          {
            "Original": "grauschweif/buildings/path/crappyrope/crappyrope.blueprint",
            "Modifier": "Modifiers/CrappyRope.LeafcoatsModifier.blueprint"
          },
        ],
    }
}

Bobingabout taught me recently. it's essentially a list in the factions spec (with lowercase source names) that tells what to replace and where to find replacement (=modifier).

It's the same files you are using, just you move them to a distinct path and tell game to only look at them when faction is loaded basically.
'modifier' blueprint can be the same you have now, just path is different (as to not override original for all)

[shell fiber]

Is that a base game function ?

And it's when you're actually playing with the faction that it comes into action, not when the mod is active ?

In that case yeah that is much better than the brutish method I've been using 🤔

[radiant arch]

still a pain to migrate i wonder..

[woeful sun]

The biggest issue with BlueprintModifiers is that the game tries to auto load files with a .blueprint.json extension (which also includes the Modifier blueprint, which might be incomplete).

The trick around this is to make all Modifiers .optional.blueprint.json so that they don't auto load (and only load via the BlueprintModifiers)

[shell fiber]

I'll make some small scale tests and see if I can get it to work

[shell fiber]

No issue with the latest version in the meantime ?

[ivory fractal]

No problem. I just found something unexpected. The wood burner and primitive smelter work partially submerged in the river. Is that intentional?

I've never tried this before, but I was surprised that water and fire can work together like this.

I had no better place to put them. To my surprise, it worked.

[radiant arch]

perfect spot for those!

[still frigate]

I haven't felt well enough to play the past couple of days, but I'm hoping to today.

[livid zephyr]

Wait until you go back to a vanilla FT run and find out you can put their 2 story houses into 1 deep bad water rivers

[cloud flax]

I always use to put them in water for fire safety reasons 🫣

[radiant arch]

got lights to somehow work (scripted)

so difficult to tune them as to not white-out the lantern itself and still cast some shades on nearby wall / building.
struggling to make them light the floor still.. (it's too bright)

@shell fiber would you have an idea why my attached brazier fire + fire spec never shows?

the blueprint says it's registered and all. and it does kinda look like brazier or campfire or your roofed walkways do.
just it refers the vanilla fire (particle thing), so not same mod? does this matter?

i'm still completely lost as to why it not works here

[shell fiber]

Originally... Not intentional, but it would have been a pain to prevent and people liked it (which includes me)

Plus arguably those buildings are isolated from the water flow by the clay wall so I guess it's fine

[shell fiber]

And it doesn't even block water flow 😅

[shell fiber]

You should be able to do that with the normal window texture if you give it a night time light controller or something like that, but that only toggle the window texture to lit, it didn't actually light up the environment

[shell fiber]

I also can the brasier fire in a few buildings, that shouldn't be an issue

But you're likely missing one part of the controller

For the fire

[shell fiber]

I would need to look at my prefab but I don't have the computer in the weekends

Also if you want to temper the light, you're better off making your custom fire, that gives better control

Especially on the light power and range

[radiant arch]

that's it
it does need the floodable fire part it seems.. and i never got it haha

[shell fiber]

Yeah, but then it also want water object spec etc. it's kind of a pain 😅
Anyway those torches are... concerning 😅

[radiant arch]

thank you for the help with this!

[still frigate]

I am sorry to say that I crashed it almost immediately. The crash was triggered by changing it from open flow to closed flow. It doesn't crash until unpaused.

[radiant arch]

yeah, that system is tick-based, so it will trigger delayed.
looks like some building messes with the water column?

[still frigate]

Platforms after sluices (in vanilla) are a common thing for me.

[radiant arch]

i used those too. not sure it's that. or some component attached to the lodge (i.e. water control, roof, ..)?

more talking to myself really.. got too late.. 🙂

[cloud flax]

The gateway to hell!?!

[radiant arch]

now.. i might.. why not actually?

maybe i can make one of them randomly go huge like this 🙂

this is a proper sized version (that sadly stops to burn under water; will glow a little still)

or this is. paused too fast.

[still frigate]

Leaving it on automatic, it crashes as soon as bad water hit it and it closed.

[still frigate]

I'll dev mode that platform into a block of dirt and test again...

@shell fiber

Okay, redid with dirt block....

Nope, still crashed on closing.

This time I saved before advancing seasons like 8 times to get a bad tide. /laughs

[radiant arch]

error clearly says it fails to access column on trying to add water block here (=closing sluice) 🤔

so might be something hindering the registry of the column.. just which tile..

would you have the coords of the sluice house (alt+shift+x gives them?) and map size @still frigate ?

that might allow to pinpoint where related to the lodge the problematic column was (inlet / outlet/ sluice itself)

can't look it up today, but it might try and receive bottom occupancy for coords somewhere in this trigger if i remember correctly...

well enough guessing.. gn

[still frigate]

Curser was here.

Sorry, took me a moment to load it back in.

Population of 1.5k beavers is really causing my computer to choke on this map.

I wont be able to tolerate playing it until cycle 66 to see that big explosion. At least not as WhitePaws.

[wary panther]

And it makes the neighboring river bath nice and warm!

[woeful sun]

and perfectly safe, promise 🙂

[shell fiber]

Ah !
I just realized what the issue was !
I probably have any error in which voxels are watertight, that may conflict with the sluice voxel.
I'll fix that first thing tomorrow

[ivory fractal]

I have no problem. My build is different, but I can open or close the sluice as I want and no crash. Automatic closing in case of bad water also works. Water intake is in the cave, but it is water from an open river, so it is not under pressure.

[still frigate]

Two main differences I see. Your intake is completely underwater. Mine was not. Your outflow has a drop rather than immediately going onto a block of some sort.

[ivory fractal]

Good point about that intake. I haven't tried it with a lower water level. But I had a drain with the terrain all the way to the building. Later I used dynamite to create a hole in the wall and used the Overhang Walkway to build the building. Only then did I take the previous screenshots.
So I tried to imitate your conditions. The intake is not a full block of water and the outflow has terrain below it. Still no game crash. I can open and close the sluice and nothing bad is happening. I also tried a complete stop of the water on the inlet side, all the water flowed away and no crash of the game.

[still frigate]

Cool! But why, I wonder?

[ivory fractal]

I have no idea.

[cloud flax]

Looks like you might have to change the sluice house again....
And tons of stuff related to in game automations will be soooo cool!

[radiant arch]

looks like the devs just rolled out a ton of new options in this regard with 1.0.11 haha

[sullen cape]

The automation mod is now vanilla it seems
I've been manually opening and closing floodgates and wishing for sluices in my current 0.7 run but I'm not sure how automation fits in with Waterbeavers, if it's too convient lol

[ivory fractal]

Yeah, automation buildings look nice, but automation mod offers more options. Vanilla implementations can only pause/unpause buildings. The mod can change the number of beavers at work or change the recipe. Both are very handy for waterbeavers. On the sensor side, the mod also offers some extra options. Allows you to read the amount of berries to collect or the number of trees that can be planted. But even vanilla automation has some interesting things. Mainly timers and memories, with this you can create very complex circuits. Or even the HTTP API, but that's a really beaver hi-tech dream.

[shell fiber]

whelp, seems that's not the issue

[cloud flax]

Can see more use for mechanics lodge, clockwork controllers and maybe even a degree in automation!

[shell fiber]

oh, i was wondering why there was a brand new crash, i guess i'm in for a quite a wild ride

[cloud flax]

All the best man!

[shell fiber]

well, no point trying to load up anything in that state...

let's look at the new things

[sullen cape]

I just realised the new automation can turn power on or off!

[sullen cape]

Thanks again for the great mod!

[shell fiber]

hmm... okay, presuming most of the new functions are integrated directly in each building's main script (farm, manufactory etc) it should be as easy as just addding the new automation things cloned from the folktails until i figure out more.

mostly the sluice need to be reworked since it's now called a valve

to be honest though, i'm not sure those will be world-shattering for the whitepaws, nor where they would fit. of course we can immediately think about the sawdust being automatize-able, sluices and control for badtides is neat

right now i'm not super fond of how the signal seem to be transmitted by pure magic

but wether i add copper wire or whatnot is still debatable

[still frigate]

For someone who runs as many mods as I do, trying to get the game running again on zero-day update is such a PITA.

[shell fiber]

oh, timbercommons imploded

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-shocked-face-stunned-pokemon-shocked-not-shocked-omg-gif-24112152

who would have guessed

😅

[still frigate]

That's gonna break a lot of mods.

Igor said it was 2 AM for him and he'll see us tomorrow.

[radiant arch]

yeah.. no whitepaws ... no frog statue..

[still frigate]

So far no EmberPelts of LeafCoats either. I'm gonna have to play modded vanilla!

So far two of the most critical mods in the game are working for me: save everyday and whichever one lets me save mod profiles.

Some of the graphics are messed up though.
/laughs

2 of the 3 water extensions don't crash on load but the third wants commons.

Actually I may have LeafCoats working. It doesn't seem to need commons like I thought it did.

[shell fiber]

oh, right, the automation part that sense the season could be a house, i've been wanting a meteorologist for a while (also i would have hoped that it would increase the forewarning before seasons change)

[still frigate]

That would be nice!

Before the update I had 54 mods loaded.

[shell fiber]

also, i'm not accusing anyone but the "metal parts" the ironteeth have feel suspiciously similar to my metal fixtures 😅

i didn't see the icon yet though, i would need to make a proper extract of the game

[still frigate]

When I used to mod crusader Kings 2 I always hoped someday some of my code would be pulled into the game. But most of my modding efforts for that game were not "general audience appropriate". /laughs

Back then I so wanted to move to Sweden and work for Paradox. Even applied once but my lack of professional game employment experience made me too much of a risk for them to pay the money to get me into the country.

[shell fiber]

oh, nice, so many options to nerf this crap 😊

[shell fiber]

yeah, i would be happy if they were to "officialize" the whitepaws, but i don't think that is a realistic possibility

unless they make it the ultimate 6th or 7th faction to unlock or somethign

[still frigate]

That would be so cool though.

@radiant arch Did you -try- the frog statue?

[shell fiber]

oh, no, i'm afraid they reworked all of the lighting controllers 😅😅

[still frigate]

Oi. I take it that will be a MASSIVE amount of work?

[shell fiber]

no, not really

that is easily deleted with a mass replace

it's just i'll have to figure out how it's working now

but right now i'm back in remote, so i can't spend all day nerding away while my wife is next to me getting bored

[still frigate]

A bored spouse is a bad thing.

Fortunately my husband is a gamer and an ex-tech like me, so he easily amuses himself.

At this second he is playing something called mewgenics so I am hearing a lot of weird "mew" sounds.

[shell fiber]

oh, it's just a basic renamed script thing, thank the Pointer

[still frigate]

search & replace is our friend.

[shell fiber]

okay, gotta go for now, need to wait until someone tells me how to use timber ripper

[still frigate]

Please, if you can, ping me when you update WhitePaws. I want to be immediately in it breaking it. 😛

[thorn dune]

I actually got to ENS and had sequoia growing and everything. ah well, it was playing up with huge pauses when opening menus and clicking on stairs and things anyway.

I suppose I should try out the automation in vanilla first

[still frigate]

My mind just broke. Igor's automation mod loaded. Not sure if it will still work, but it loaded!

Also, it looks like I have Bobbing's clans in there!

Crashed tyring to start a new game. 😛

Soemthing I am running tripped this: ArgumentException: No type found for key WorkplaceLightingSpec

[heavy lodge]

was replaced with : #1070709592176197642 message

[sullen cape]

Beavers rediscovered radio?

[heavy lodge]

Must watch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTms4XatZYE

[still frigate]

I just don't know -which- mod triggered it.

[still frigate]

I'll go check that out.

[heavy lodge]

all mods that use old lightning system

[radiant arch]

reported a crash due to some script missing - oh, it was that lighting script lapan mentioned maybe

[radiant arch]

for whitepaws - should it have a white bench too?

i can't do a scrambled one.. that one made my eyes bleed..

[still frigate]

White would be cool.

When I'm making stairs and platforms. I primarily use the scrambled color.

[radiant arch]

yeah, me too for those. .. hmm.. maybe i'll try a little more if i can make it work here..

[cloud flax]

Btw did you actually sculpt it out on blender??

Or got an asset online and then you modify it

[radiant arch]

did it from skretch. all of them

fun learning new skills 🙂

need to tone down the stone lantern though.. that one has 400 triangles ..

the other are 'still barely fine' haha

[radiant arch]

feedback on how to improve the aesthetics is highly welcome as my eyes can't be trusted really

[cloud flax]

It looks good honestly!
If you wanna test with white bench, maybe the legs can be pink with white planks? That might be more waterbeavery?

But even now it's looking pretty

[glass gull]

How about two tiers:
Copper wire - instant, hands off, independent of paths, expensive to install
Beaver errands - when a building changes its output, it generates "items" that a beaver working in a special building (or a hauler if no specialized couriers are available) has to pick up and carry to all the buildings receiving that signal.

[radiant arch]

the latter might be a fun mod, to implement as beaver state (i.e. like delivering literal 'messages') @ionic swift ?
instead of instant signals, a beaver has to carry the 'instruction/ state' to any destination listening 🙂

[austere jackal]

Is this an error that keeps the faction from showing up entirely, or is the mod incompatible with Emberpelts and Leaf Coats?

[radiant arch]

which version of the mod are you using? (there is different ones on steam)

whitepaws itself might conflict with other factions due to overriding shared assets

[austere jackal]

The 1.0 version

[austere jackal]

Ah, I see

[radiant arch]

sometimes steam not updates dependencies too (would need mod manager or forcefully re-subscribe)

seeing that message about the version mismatch is odd indeed.

[austere jackal]

Even without Emberpelts and Leaf Coats, Whitepaws still don't appear

Weird

[radiant arch]

might be temporary, with todays update to experimental

i could get them running fine just yesterday

[stone spruce]

For 1x1x2 Storage, Emberpelts & Leaft Coats are unafffected. Grauschweif's already covered everything else though.

Other thought: I'm looking forward to seeing what Lapan will do with the new automation

I can imagine the 10 step production chain that will be needed to make a single sensor XD

[radiant arch]

now i feel overwhelmed a little ..

not sure about mapping the birch (top left) or the scramble (it's weird..)

middle green and red are leafcoats / emberpelts
scramble, pink and birch are whitepaws. the front left red is custom wood from my mod
others are brown, yellow, white (FT), dark brown, indigo, grey (IT)

i totally can see people playing greedy faction for the whole set now 😅

[cloud flax]

Were you able to reduce the face count XD

[radiant arch]

240 per bench haha (down from 256)

[shell fiber]

Hmm... The idea is interesting, but it's that really worth the trouble ? I don't think so

[shell fiber]

Nah, a scrambled bench doesn't feel right to me. If it was a poorly made bench, yeah but it doesn't fit this model I think

[glass gull]

reasonable

[shell fiber]

You can probably remove half the planks and make the remaining ones larger

[shell fiber]

I wouldn't count on it being functional right now

Today's update broke many things and I don't have much time to fix any

[shell fiber]

For now the way I see automation is too have some basic trigger to activate / deactivate some buildings based on the season, or halt / resume production of some good when the stock is full / low. Or control the sluices / floodgates / water pumps

Which in general is not desirable since most buildings are houses. If there was automation things that let you change recipes of a building, that is better but also undesirable because it reduces the pressure to make more anvils / chemistry labware etc.

So really I only want automation for two things, that didn't justify making a complicated system even if it's super cool

[austere jackal]

That's absolutely fine

Good luck to you!

(On fixing all the new things)

[radiant arch]

would be nice if there was a pause-workshop-not-housing option?

[shell fiber]

I don't think that's possible 😔

[radiant arch]

maybe.. not in the near future..

i note it down as 'would-be-nice'

[ivory fractal]

The automation mod has this function. It can set 0 workers, then the building still works like a house, but it doesn't produce anything. It's a shame that the new automation does not offer this option. I don't even like the blue icons above the buildings.

[stone spruce]

IIRC in the base game there's nothing that functions like a house that is also a workstation. It makes sense they'd want to use the functionality they already built (pausing) instead of a secondary solution that could be confusing. ("Why is my unpaused building not doing anything!?!" "Because you forgot that automation had set it to zero workers")

[shell fiber]

just went to poke at the automation in vanilla, that's interesting, but there is clearly zero range consideration to anything

i think i'll mostly copy automation elements, possibly make some of them a lodge

i think the most important will clearly be the season sensor (meteo station), which means i kind of want to give it to an "improved district center" or something

oh, also, the firework cannon consumes, well fireworks, that will be an extra reciepe for the handicrafter

(no idea where they're made in the FT)

oh here's an idea !
i can give the water flow / water level / water contamination sensor to the waterpump upgrade terminal segments, that would give them more usefulness 🤔

[cloud flax]

Like setting workers to 0 like in automation mod 🫣

Nargon already said that it seems 🫣

[cloud flax]

That for sure would be interesting!!!

Only problem I foresee is that the. You would allow the opening of those terminal segments around same time as upgrade especially when you are looking to make aa higher dam. So if you plan to make automation a later part of game then this would hinder making us use water pumps in dams especially for the edges

[cloud flax]

Power automation would be good too cuz it can allow to seperate imp industries and non imp industries... In smart power is not used then it will be hard to control the power network

[still frigate]

The new valves that replace sluices don't have their own depth meter, or water type controls anymore. They are meant to be used with the automation for all of that. All they have is a flow control.

(Sorry if someone already stated this and I missed it.)

[still frigate]

@shell fiber

Perhaps I could do this better, but 6 relays, 2 weather stations, a contamination sensor, and a depth sensor all to control these two banks of valves.

So, please considerer this when you decide on price and science.

conversely, this one is super-simple. If there is a drought, then close it. Otherwise don't.

But I may want to complicate it by adding water depth gauge so it doesn't open and drain what water we have left after the drought before new water arrives. That would invovle at least a depth sensor and a relay, maybe 2 or even 3 relays if I need to NOT a signal.

I have done a lot of this kind of logic in Oxygen Not Included and it gets complicated quickly.

[ionic swift]

https://discord.com/channels/558398674389172225/1478245263175979008

[still frigate]

I -just- saw that somewhere, but thanks very much for the heads up.

[ionic swift]

there was another mod on the Workshop but that one simply 'unhides' the currently hidden one. This one completely replaces it with a copy of the model so it will survive even if the Dev removes it

[still frigate]

The right way to do it.

[still frigate]

Same as above, but this time:

• it is not a drought.
• It is not a bad tide.
• The water is not contaminated nor is it overflowing.
  So... the clean water valves are opened and the contamination/overflow valves are closed.

[woeful sun]

blegh, I didn't update timbertrees to 6.1.8 before I updated the game to 1.0.11

[still frigate]

I think each sensor should have a relay with it in case you want to knot it. But that is just my own designs.

[woeful sun]

ahh, gotcha

6.1.8 untranslated enUS strings:

[still frigate]

I admit, I had to look up what lyophilization was. I knew the process, but not the name.

[woeful sun]

via steam's console and a crafty download_depot

[still frigate]

nice!

unrelated: Bad tide is approaching. Lets see if my logc holds! /laughs

This one is still simple. Added a second weather station and an OR relay. If weather is badtide or drought, close it up!

(This water is protected from bad tide so long as my other system works!)

Erf. I think my main logic is wrong. I'll know soon.

Debugging my logic. I have it fixed for badtide weather... not sure if drought will still work as desired.

The lights can be custom colored. This will be fun.

And what is the first thing I do with custom colors?

[still frigate]

Here are some actual use of colors in my logic. Explained even.

the 3 valves below:
3 Green lights mean

• NOT badtide
• NOT drought
• NOT contaminated water (darker green)
  (there are not three green lights!)

yellow light means water is more than 1% contaminated. Oh noes! Tell the chain to dump it!

orange light means water is contaminated (yellow is on) OR about to overflow (blue is on). Tell the chain to dump some.

red light means orange light is on OR it is bad tide. Tell the master control to dump water/

purple light means that red light is on AND it is not a drought. Okay to dump water.

The three valves are set to dump water if the purple light is on.

If purple is OFF, all three valves close.

the two valves to the side: (currently closed)
if dark green light is lit, then open. Otherwise close.

Same as above, but all is good. We have 3 green lights.

[still frigate]

Yay! It still works for badtide after I re-did the logic. The water isn't contaminated yet so both sets of valves are opened.

Not a drop of bad water escaped into my colony's lake!

Bad tide has ended and the dump gates stay open because the water is still contaminated. The side gates remain closed for the same reason.

When the drought it water continued to the main colony but none was dumped. Everything else is held back by the regular dams.

[ivory fractal]

If you just want to separate good and bad water, one contamination sensor and the correct setting are enough. On the valve you can set the flow for the ON and OFF signal, use it! I created an example using flood gates, but the automation is the same for the valve.

[still frigate]

Very true. And well done.

I just wanted to cover more contingencies. So, of course, I made something very complicated.

Like the old programmer vs engineer joke about the toaster. 😛

Once upon a time, in a kingdom not far from here, a king summoned two of his advisors for a test. He showed them both a shiny metal box with two slots in the top, a control knob, and a lever. "What do you think this is?"

One advisor, an engineer, answered first. "It is a toaster," he said. The king asked, "How would you design an embedded computer for it?" The engineer replied, "Using a four-bit microcontroller, I would write a simple program that reads the darkness knob and quantizes its position to one of 16 shades of darkness, from snow white to coal black. The program would use that darkness level as the index to a 16-element table of initial timer values. Then it would turn on the heating elements and start the timer with the initial value selected from the table. At the end of the time delay, it would turn off the heat and pop up the toast. Come back next week, and I'll show you a working prototype."

The second advisor, a computer scientist, immediately recognized the danger of such short-sighted thinking. He said, "Toasters don't just turn bread into toast, they are also used to warm frozen waffles. What you see before you is really a breakfast food cooker. As the subjects of your kingdom become more sophisticated, they will demand more capabilities. They will need a breakfast food cooker that can also cook sausage, fry bacon, and make scrambled eggs. A toaster that only makes toast will soon be obsolete. If we don't look to the future, we will have to completely redesign the toaster in just a few years."

"With this in mind, we can formulate a more intelligent solution to the problem. First, create a class of breakfast foods. Specialize this class into subclasses: grains, pork, and poultry. The specialization process should be repeated with grains divided into toast, muffins, pancakes, and waffles; pork divided into sausage, links, and bacon; and poultry divided into scrambled eggs, hard-boiled eggs, poached eggs, fried eggs, and various omelet classes.”

.
"...The ham and cheese omelet class is worth special attention because it must inherit characteristics from the pork, dairy, and poultry classes. Thus, we see that the problem cannot be properly solved without multiple inheritance. At run time, the program must create the proper object and send a message to the object that says, 'Cook yourself.' The semantics of this message depend, of course, on the kind of object, so they have a different meaning to a piece of toast than to scrambled eggs."

"Reviewing the process so far, we see that the analysis phase has revealed that the primary requirement is to cook any kind of breakfast food. In the design phase, we have discovered some derived requirements. Specifically, we need an object-oriented language with multiple inheritance. Of course, users don't want the eggs to get cold while the bacon is frying, so concurrent processing is required, too."

"We must not forget the user interface. The lever that lowers the food lacks versatility, and the darkness knob is confusing. Users won't buy the product unless it has a user-friendly, graphical interface. Users will want to pull down a menu and click on the foods they want to cook."

"Having made the wise decision of specifying the software first in the design phase, all that remains is to pick an adequate hardware platform for the implementation phase. An Intel 80386 with 8MB of memory, a 30MB hard disk, and a VGA monitor should be sufficient. If you select a multitasking, object oriented language that supports multiple inheritance and has a built-in GUI, writing the program will be a snap. (Imagine the difficulty we would have had if we had foolishly allowed a hardware-first design strategy to lock us into a four-bit microcontroller!)."

The king wisely had the computer scientist beheaded, and they all lived happily ever after.

[woeful sun]

If you'd written it in Java, then you could have had an AbstractBreakfastInstantiatorFactoryClass

[still frigate]

🤣

I think more like a programmer than an engineer. That joke (back when I was in university) sorta blew my mind.

[woeful sun]

That was an electrical engineer answer,

a mechanical engineer would have used a bi-metal strip 🙂

[shell fiber]

You need two weather station to say badtide or drought? Can't you say "not temperate" ?

[still frigate]

Yes.

But my mind was locked on the complexity of the other one I was working on.

Plus... if Luke gets his weather mod back to specs, there will be more weather types.

[shell fiber]

Damn right. This had completely slipped my mind

[still frigate]

I really liked it so I keep hoping he gets the old weather types back and even makes more new ones.

[radiant arch]

didn't he make a new 1.0 version of that mod?

[still frigate]

The main mod, but not the expanded weathers.

[radiant arch]

yeah, true

i'll poke at it later this month and see to re-make my seasons for that..

[rancid kayak]

Relay sensor (I think it was that) allows you to use NOT, so 1 weather sensor and 1 relay can assign NOT Drought/Badtide

[radiant arch]

should be easier now to provide new weather types with it 🤔

[still frigate]

Yes. I add NOT to most of my sensors as an option.

[radiant arch]

hope seasons still makes sense though, seeing as he made the 'classic cycle' much more fuzzy and dynamic

[still frigate]

This one shows some extensive uses of NOT... #1070709592176197642 message

(at least in the logic. I only have 3 NOT gates)

By the by, I had to sloppily use dev commands to generate too much water, but my overflow logic does trigger and open the 3 drains valves. 😛

(The blue light signifies too much water... I just went overboard.)

[woeful sun]

by the way, what's you signal naming convention?

[still frigate]

location:function

vs

[woeful sun]

[F/A] Disturbed is using their standard one, like: PlankLow, or PlankHigh, NotPlanksHigh

[woeful sun]

Walky named some as like "Contamination > 50%" or "Less than 5 vacacies" which was interesting,

[still frigate]

My execution is sloppy, but for now, good enough.

The color coding helped me more than any naming I did. 😛

[woeful sun]

are the colors shown in the drop downs?

ahh, maybe that's why the drop downs changed?

[still frigate]

They show in the side but not the dropdown (until selected). So both are important.

dropdowns probably changed to be able to support some of the more strange character combinations we use.

Ya'll see my strange visual glitch I reported? 😛

Works just fine

[sullen cape]

Yeah I knew about this, but it seems like a downgrade

[still frigate]

Which is why Luke immediately recreated the original.

It is difficult to keep up with everything I use, but I --try to-- watch the threads for a lot of the mods I have.

[sullen cape]

I'm gonna post in #🌴suggestions-and-feedback, maybe release a sluice with it's own inbuilt probes or something
Or Lapan, does having to build separate probes for the sluice help balance it a bit?

[still frigate]

I'm trying to refrain from too many suggestions and judgements myself, just to give me time to get used to it as they have changed it. Not that I agree with all of it by any stretch of the imagination.

But I'm still having fun.

If after 30+ hours fighting with something, then I have a big beef with it I'll either look for a mod to change it or I might speak up.

I try to give modders the same curtesy.

I am anxious for WhtiePaws to be fixed so I can fire it back up anbd play with the new type of terrain blocks that I didn't get aorudn to in my previous game.

But I expect it will be days, of not weeks to get all of this implemented.

[woeful sun]

Seems that district one is medium, manual migration is large, and a unset transmitter is none?

oh, if you want to downgrade, you can ask stream to download 1.0.10.4 with download_depot 1062090 1062091 5961608454880895033 in steam://open/console

(you can get the id's from https://steamdb.info/app/1062090/history/)

it's download_depot $game_id $depot_id $manifest_id

and then it gets downloaded into a separate folder (without any progress indicator unfortunately)

Found via https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1086279994

[radiant arch]

will it still work with workshop items despite the different depot id?

[still frigate]

This map keeps changing where my primary power generation is. I love a dynamic map, but this one is so fast at the big changes that it is sorta hard to keep up with. /laughs

At least they aren't as deadly as mine tend to be.

[woeful sun]

yes, if you create a steam_appid.txt with 1062090 in it, then you can can launch the game directly, i.e. not through steam (so you can have multiple versions if you want).

If steam is running, then it'll find steam mods, otherwise it won't

creating the appid file disables the "start steam if it's not running" logic when you run the game executable

(documented at: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/sdk/api#initialization_and_shutdown)

[shell fiber]

yes, actually the current sluice is much better for my purposes than the previous one, which franckly was OP

right now it's basically a floodgate that is stackable

much better

because i have to balance two things :

• this junk should be build at the bottom of a dam (thus, early on)
• this is so powerful it should be end-game

[woeful sun]

There are already 2 sluice mods: one just unhides the old sluice, and the other is a copy of it (so it survives when it's removed from the game).

[sullen cape]

Hmm
I know this mod is ment to be complicated
What about a building that you can later upgrade to a Sluice, that you can place at the bottom of your dam?

Might be confusing for new players, but this is waterbeavers where you can demolish your cart first 😈

[livid zephyr]

it was OP. just hidden behind a little bit of science and metal. easily attained if you know ya want/need it for the reservoir you plan on building. these are much better and configurable later on

[still frigate]

Aaaaand we just updated again.

[shell fiber]

well yeah, exactly, that's what the current sluice is in the end, you can build it early and it's crap, then upgrade it with automation

[sullen cape]

Duh

Well that's good I hope 🙂

[still frigate]

Post update, my last mod combo loaded at least.

Added in the repaired Timber Commons and it is still good. I am very hopeful.

On my non-WhitePaw mod loadout I am up to 50 mods and still working. Just launched a LeafCoats game to test and it started.

[radiant arch]

it better has! got to test 14 models and costs for 8 factions/ combinations soon haha

[still frigate]

I was able to load my LeafCoats game from 2 days ago, so yay for that.

No sign of the new automation tools in it though.

Oh. He said as much in his notes. Updated for v1.0.11.0, Fixes only, no new features added yet.

[woeful sun]

no, Emberpelts and Leafcoats don't have them added yet

[radiant arch]

wouldn't expect him to be any eager about adding them soon, given he wanted to take it slow just before that update hit

[still frigate]

Something in one of the two theoretically working "water extension" mods is still borked. Ah well. I should wait until they are all fixed.

[radiant arch]

given a lighting script was renamed i'd expect many buildings to need little updates..

and after custom materials with lightmaps..

[still frigate]

Yep

Time to upgrade to bots so I can go show the bad water sources on this map the error of their ways.

[radiant arch]

i love how you can accidentally kill your population as long as a bot covers a single breeding pot

[still frigate]

I went one step further

[radiant arch]

on the other hand the dynamics and fatality of whitepaws - i like that best still

[still frigate]

In LeafCoats all beavers were dead and no bots. But I had 1 beaver plant left and it didn't die. Rebuild my whole civilization.

[radiant arch]

nice!

[still frigate]

I can't imagine ever topping that one.

[radiant arch]

yeah, how even? that's hilarious close!

[still frigate]

IKR!

[cloud flax]

Only adam or eve it seems...

[still frigate]

When one is vine grown it doesn't matter. Just grow some more.

But like in Spore, all beavers appear to be hermaphrodites.

IronTeeth seem to be neither.

[frigid idol]

Weather stations should use checkboxes to select the seasons... Also, the name at first confused me, because I thought I could select wind speed too.

But, you could use a relay (a NOT gate) to flip the Weather Station value like NOT temperate, but this don't play nice with Activate early setting

[still frigate]

I finally hit my first big disappointment with the new stuff. The gate has no way to differentiate between organics and bots. What a wasted opportunity. /sigh

The gate is still a great thing. Don't get me wrong about that.

[abstract vector]

It sounds like something that could be modded in though

[still frigate]

I hope someone does.

[abstract vector]

Knatte got their mods updated

[still frigate]

Yay! Been waiting for that.

I didn't see a notification of it, but the frog statue has been updated too! Gods I love @woeful sun's mod updater.

[still frigate]

An exchange my husband and I just had.

Kupo: Planks a lot.
me: <after groaning at the pun> How come I never thought of that one?```

@shell fiber

When you add wiring to the automation system, how would something like what I have pictured work?

good: if the purple light went out (< 666 surplus power) then the number cruncher would stop.
better: NOT relay assigned to the purple gate turns on the three steam engines when there is not an adequate surplus of power.

[shell fiber]

well i don't think i'll add wires tbh 🤔

i think i just fixed my unity

[still frigate]

I was dreading the thought. I am glad you decided not to.

[shell fiber]

first priority is obviously to fix the mod, then i'll integrate automation whichever way i can

[still frigate]

Make it work then make it better.

[shell fiber]

probably the liquid water related sensors will be in the waterpump upgrade terminal segments.
the weather station most definitely a mid-game new district center, since you likely only need one. but i'll add an extra thingie for the weirdoes who think they need multiple (realistically there is reasons to want that i guess)

the rest... i don't know yet

[still frigate]

Districts make sense in a faction that has robots that can do work. In WhitePaws they are only haulers so I have little use for districts myself.

But on some maps they are nice.

[shell fiber]

i'll probably just duplicate the folktails one, but i thing i want to also make them into some sort of upgrade buildings, like a 3x2x2 computing house that can have up to 6 automation modules on the second floor

oh, actually...

hmm...

what if, i make the advanced DC be an actual town hall or whatever, and make IT responsible for centralizing the automation modules (except the sensors that are in the environment)

that solve the cabling issue, since they would all be forced into one place 🧐

and as for the water sensor things... do they still work if they are houses, and paused ? this way i can force the player to not build them too far off. and the "signal" can be a beaver with good lungs, arguably 😅

[still frigate]

It would need capabilities for hundreds for anyone doing serious automation. I'm just playing around here.

[heavy lodge]

Say thanks that dev's don't make sensors consume science to work. Would make automation for WhitePaws a hell 🤣

[shell fiber]

oh, that's an idea 😅

[radiant arch]

finally a purpose for the dyna-butchet chain 🎉

[still frigate]

I both like and dislike that. I mean once one has 2 or 3 ENS there needs to be more science burners.

I plan for a minimum of 3 ENS in any colony.

[radiant arch]

well, i could make 50k from a single trebutchet while waiting on the abyss reactor

cant imagine what better use than putting that into sensors

[still frigate]

waste rock: fueling the sensor network in ways no beaver can hope to understand. It just works. Don't jinx it!

[radiant arch]

i never managed to fully utilise one for sience since that was nerfed

[radiant arch]

now you need them to make fake dirt blocks

[still frigate]

I haven't gotten to play with that yet.

Lapan will fix it. And what he doesn't fix, @radiant arch will. 😉

[radiant arch]

i'll try if i can and it makes whitepaws become closer to lapans ideal

[still frigate]

I need to download your repelling crane.

[radiant arch]

but compared to how much work lapan puts into the mod that's just some small detail

[radiant arch]

would love to get some feedback if things are quirky or looking weird, please 🙏

[still frigate]

Does it work with all clans?

By the by, I love these!

[radiant arch]

i tested with most of them, but not greedy nations and greedy paws

[still frigate]

Okay. I'm not doing the greedy* right now so that's fine.

[radiant arch]

what is that? those look great!

[still frigate]

KnatteAnka's water extension power mod.

[radiant arch]

love that duck!

[still frigate]

I should have added your decorations while I was adding in the crane... brb... want those too.

Am I mental or couldn't Lapan's crane be used like this to build up, including the crane itself?

[radiant arch]

mine are a little 'weird'..

and other factions have actual floor occupancy, so might behave differently there

or i messed up.. does DC show range there?

oh, wait, the crane itself.. not that wont build this way

lapan's did??? hmmm

[still frigate]

I -think- so

[radiant arch]

maybe that's what those odd pathing extras been for... 🤔

will try tomorrow

too late for my brain 🙂

gn

[still frigate]

niters

[shell fiber]

That won't work much longer, something was out of whack in the trebuchet I need to make it a pure attraction

[shell fiber]

Not sure, I think they had to be build from the top

The odd path were likely to allow to extract metal from ruins in 1x1 holes

Did that work in yours ?

[still frigate]

I just knew you could use them to build upwards.

Making towers of buildings is a thing of mine and they aided that greatly.

I remember you having to tell me I could use it to harvest trees below me. /laughs

[still frigate]

@radiant arch I enjoy a Hyakki Yagyō as much as the next soul but do you really intend for these to float? 😛

[radiant arch]

sad sideeffect of the 'stick-to-wall' option for now 🙂

is it bad?

[still frigate]

Not at all

I was just amused

[shell fiber]

okay, at long f%$#ing last, i have managed to fix my unity (it was not fully fixed before)

[shell fiber]

gah

now i have to gut the new tutorial entries

except somehow there's nothing new 🤔🤔

[shell fiber]

yet another "something is wrong but i won't tell you where 😓"

well, clearly it's one of the tutorial steps

but that will be a problem for tomorrow

[radiant arch]

looks like a tool bar problem? (duplication? missing item?)

[shell fiber]

I was careful to not duplicate any of the items used in the tutorial, so likely but, but maybe some stuff is hard wired, like the "connect power" task doesn't ask for any argument, but actually look for the folktails power shafts

I'll bash my head at it tomorrow

[shell fiber]

okay, the issue is fixed

now i have to fix all those visual bugs caused by the window / illumination rework

[still frigate]

Just a jump to the left...

[cloud flax]

boink

[shell fiber]

Oh I mean that small floating door is the corrected one for some other buildings

[shell fiber]

okay, presumably the mod is fixed

and by that i mean "does not crash immediately"

i couldn't replicate the sluice crash from @still frigate
i tried to cover the building with dirt or with buildings, but no change

[still frigate]

I am so looking forward to getting back to this.

[still frigate]

Failed to load previous save. Attempting a new game for testing purposes...

@shell fiber repeatable crash. Giant liquid storage.

I successfully started a new game then dev-built a gargantuan liquid storage. It was fine until I tried to put water in it.

@shell fiber Some minor visual inconsistencies have crept in. I believe there are more in some of the submenus.

[radiant arch]

the rope icon is mine 🙂 (different mod)

[still frigate]

Yes but the others aren't.

[very early game] One way to build and delete your way up unfriendly terrain so you can build down to your housing stack.

Second time doing the procedure on this map!

[radiant arch]

looks like mine! (right before i cursed and made the ropes haha)

so fun to get to the brambles on this map (if they still survive)

[still frigate]

Repelling crane wont help. No science, and the unlocked one wont build on buildings.

[radiant arch]

you can stair up 1 and build on 2nd, remove stair?

2 skipped this way

[still frigate]

yeah, I could have done it smarter.

[radiant arch]

you used 6 beavers less than me tbh

hmm.. but that gets me thinking if the ropes are useful enough as is?

would making the stackable one be science-free help in this case?

[still frigate]

not so much for whitepaws. Great for the others.

That is how I used to use them. Beaver on top of building places a crane then build the next level up that you couldn't before.

Really only worked for the P&L lodges, but it was so nice.

[radiant arch]

ok. will see if i can make that possible again for next week. at least for whitepaws

[still frigate]

That would be cool.

Still great for lumberjacking down when there is no clear space for stairs even as is.

And now 419 logs to find space for/use before the rubble piles expire

[shell fiber]

That's a moddable tool group issue

[shell fiber]

If you want I can give you my rappelling rope icon 😉

But yours is also good. Kind of feel like an artillery piece though😅

Or those anti tank cannons things

[radiant arch]

i'll try and make something new sometime.
the model is rather different from yours

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Is this intentional? If so, yay. If not, now you know.

OR... one of my other mods has caused it to be unlocked? Not likely?

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I dev-built a hot nuclear press to check out the block making since the game I was about to legit make one in wont load anymore because of the water bug.

I can definitely say that it works and it is much better than 1,000 dirt for a single block. I will also say that you made some interesting choices. With 6 ingredients (totaling 120 units) and 600 hp, it is still rather expensive per block. But I'll take it. The additional 100 water to place it also makes perfect sense.

I haven't figured out what the coal's function is but at least it is only 10 coal a block. But that adds up at a stage where, as someone said, one can never have enough. Coal doesn't come out of explosive tunneling does it? Never mind, coal is right there in the recovered goods description. I've seen the dirt, waste rock, and iron for sure. Maybe I just use to coal too fast to have noticed it? 😛

Finally, is using glorious storage intended to remind us how rare and wonderful a bock of earth is? 😛

[still frigate]

@shell fiber dev-mode placing of abyssal elevator crashes.

[shell fiber]

i really eyeballed the cost, i can change it if it feels wrong in any way

[shell fiber]

that's weird

i just fixed the giga water storage, so it shouldn't crash anymore

and also so i won't forget to fix it every game update 😑

[ivory fractal]

You have something broken in the game and it's not water beavers. That's the same error you had at Sluice Lodge. It's something about water simulation. Trying to build an elevator in a flooded area?
I can build an abyssal elevator without crash, including all expansions and an atomic reactor.

[shell fiber]

(it was not with the other storage models because i'm a dog driving a car)

https://tenor.com/view/german-shepherd-dog-driving-car-dog-driving-dog-dogs-gif-25395504

(damn i cant find the right picture of the golden retriever at the wheel)

[radiant arch]

https://tenor.com/view/rollin-they-see-me-rollin-back-to-work-gif-16446505282170750953

like this?

[shell fiber]

not this one, but maybe my memory is unclear

[radiant arch]

would guess so too

[shell fiber]

there's one with a dog saying "i have no idea what i'm doing" which is a dog driving a car

or was it in front of a computer ?🤔

[radiant arch]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-mechanic-car-i-dont-know-what-im-doing-i-have-no-idea-what-im-doing-gif-22759303

pc and this one is all i can find. very relatable haha

[shell fiber]

indeed

[radiant arch]

this made my morning now 🙂

[shell fiber]

@radiant arch did'nt your script increase the map ceiling ? on the most basic map there's a ruin that is too high for the nuclear reactor🤔

[radiant arch]

did you override this file ?

// Blueprints/Configurations/MapSize.blueprint.json does the exact same
{
  "MapSizeSpec": {
    "MaxHeightAboveTerrain": 24
  }
}

as it was possible with json now i not moved the code for it.
if json not works i could i guess?

[shell fiber]

last time i tried to poke a the configuration one, it broke everything, but i'll try again

i'm "fixing" the trebuchet now

oh right, the bottleneck for endless terraforming was the ability to get rid of crapmetal or metalblocks right ?

because we will soon have firework that can endlessly consume ressources, so i'll probably make some balloon trade that takes metal whatever for fireworks and that should do it (the handicrafter also will be able to make them)

[radiant arch]

if the json not works anymore, i'll get the script back by monday

[still frigate]

It wasn't a flooded area. But I am running a LOT of mods. Some probably aren't even doing anything inside WhitePaws.

At last save I was running 50 mods.

I -had- been running these (from other factions) and I am pretty sure they don't even interact with WhitePaws.

Looking for more to disable that were just left on...

removed a total of 7 mods

This is where that abyssal mine was:

(gonna try again)

Placed fine.

[shell fiber]

i think i was poking at the wrong property,

now it works 🙂

[still frigate]

The gargantuan tank still crashes so I can't check my old game until the next update.

[shell fiber]

i'll update soon

[still frigate]

No worries.

And did you remove the long skewer? I only see it in dev mode now.

[shell fiber]

i think i replaced with a double skewer because there was situation where it could vanish

[still frigate]

Unless something in my load order is messing it up. I've had weirdness like that before.

My power shafts are split and I doubt that is intentional.

Just no clue what to change to fix it. /laughs

[shell fiber]

probably you are using the improved tool groups or something

like moddable tool groups but also comes with pre-madegroups

[still frigate]

let me check...

You updated! 🙂

[shell fiber]

indeed, i forgot to actually add the new one, but the old one is only devlocked i believe

[still frigate]

MoreGroups ended up on again. Power is fixed.

New and improved trebuchet added in.

Confirmed that the Gargantuan Tank is happy. 🙂

[still frigate]

@shell fiber @radiant arch

Stuff that was removed from the save with the sluice crash.

Gonna miss configurable pumps if that is the problem.

[shell fiber]

well automation will be comming soon

or should i say "soon"

[still frigate]

soon™

And another trebuchet bites the dust. I am not playing Strongholds! 😛

Oops. Can't test the sluice lodge theory because it is now the one with the flow control and no fluid type detection.

[radiant arch]

it should behave same for the blocking flow part

[radiant arch]

there can't be too many lights per tile, right?

[still frigate]

I would decorate like that. Which is why they don't let me decoarate.

---

I really like this colony and it may be playable again. I'm not getting the FPS lag I was.

[radiant arch]

those yellow trees must look nice on that middle island?

[still frigate]

Well... speed 3 lags out. 1.5K beavers is just too much.

[still frigate]

??? The ones at the lower right corner?

Wait... do you mean I should plant them on that barren center island?

@shell fiber Timberborn -just-updated.

[radiant arch]

doesnt look like they did anything breaking this time

[still frigate]

they mentioned the valve blueprint.

still loads my save. yay

[shell fiber]

Not entirely surprising if you ask me 😅

[shell fiber]

Looks inconsequential 🤔

[still frigate]

I need to figure out how to drastically lower population without leaving jobs empty.

[radiant arch]

upping productivity using well-being usually helps balance that for me

and looking at productivity to decide which production buildings can go offline

lower population greatly reduces need for workers too, as: less food = less cooking = less water = less hauling

[still frigate]

At least I have a decent wellbeing this playthrough.

But it could be a lot better

[radiant arch]

it's pretty decent, yeah. still might give a good boost aiming for 65~ (after it slows down a lot imho)

[still frigate]

One of my problems is that a lot of stuff was build to make physical dams, whether it was needed or not.

A good example of that:

[radiant arch]

just stared at that too haha

that's 120?? more?

could make dirt blocks right behind and slowly demolish them?

going at a pattern like 'dirt'-'levee'-'dirt' and topping with upgraded dams gives pretty quick results?

[still frigate]

At 1,000 dirt per block?

I don't have the other one yet for this game.

But I like your thought.

This... this is going to be painful to watch.

All food and water production is turned off and I am preparing to start destroying housing.

(I saved before doing this in case the guilt becomes overwhelming)

gotta find where I still have 102 beds active.

Okay, found it all.

[shell fiber]

why would you want to have zero beds ? bots alone cannot make certain things, probably

[radiant arch]

reminds me of a certain christmas story: "why did they pluck the goose?" "to gift her a new sweater of course" 🙂

[still frigate]

Restarting from -near- scratch.

[still frigate]

I found myself torn between abandoning the save or doing something extreme. I opted for extreme.

A near total colony redesign. Almost like starting a new game but with a lot of end-game stuff still unlocked.

[radiant arch]

and a very strong workforce!

[still frigate]

They um... starved. By the time I had things stabilized 2 were left. 😬

[radiant arch]

those two better get busy 🙂

[still frigate]

Gonna be a slow recovery

[still frigate]

With so many open beds I am surprised there aren't new kits everyday.

[heavy lodge]

Beavers must sleep, also 🤣

[radiant arch]

would less working hours help?

than again... maybe this game isn't that realistic 🤔

[still frigate]

I read somewhere that does help...

I cut the workday to 12 hours. Since the above screenshot, all the kits have grown up and they just gave me 1 more.

so 6 and 1

Maybe it take a bit for the lower hours to have an effect?

[radiant arch]

i don't know if they have, but if so it would mean there's a chance per either sleep hour or 'free' hour to produce kits

vs. an once-a-day chance

[still frigate]

Maybe happiness affects this chance?

[radiant arch]

i don't know tbh

[still frigate]

Well, this is what has happened since the starvation.

[radiant arch]

so, code dive told me:

• a beaver must be home

• another adult beaver must dwell there too

• neither must have any critical need unmet

spawn-chance is set per-day

oh, and the dwelling must have a free slot too, it seems

(not sure about this one, if current dwelling or any dwelling counts)

hmm.. now that i re-read -> it might not need the 2nd beaver to be home.. just dwell there might be enough

so there might be little to no benefit in changing working hours itself..

just have them not-unhappy and have adult pairs in homes not yet full

[still frigate]

Oaky. Then they need to get back to work. 😛

[radiant arch]

me too.. testing decorations on all 5+3 factions haha 🙃

[shell fiber]

I think lowering work hours gives a higher chance that either of the two adults in a house are there at midnight, if you make them work too late they might be busy running around at that time

Also, unrelated quick question : what are the requirements for a clinic ? Like the building itself plus the diploma made in the library.

(I'm poking at the tutorial text from home but I don't have the mod data)

[radiant arch]

"BuildingCost": [
      {
        "Id": "Log",
        "Amount": 30
      },
      {
        "Id": "Plank",
        "Amount": 25
      },
      {
        "Id": "PineResin",
        "Amount": 20
      },
      {
        "Id": "Metalfixation",
        "Amount": 15
      },
      {
        "Id": "Tools",
        "Amount": 20
      },
      {
        "Id": "ChemistrySet",
        "Amount": 1
      },
      {
        "Id": "NursingLicense",
        "Amount": 1
      }
    ],

alchemists set and both fasteners and tools from primitive workshop

for products it's

• alcohol
• bettermedicine
• bramble flower (aka 'meanflower' haha)
• ice block / minty bamboo for frost balms (might have changed recently?)

so needs: fermentation, clay pit, bramble extermination and distillery i guess ?

[radiant arch]

oh, they booped the version one up again 😅

[still frigate]

Second update in 1 "day" (so called because I haven't slept yet despite being barely able to see due to eye strain.) 😛

/laughs

[radiant arch]

please be careful 🤞 (speaking from a point of not caring enough about it too recently)

[still frigate]

Jinx! You owe me a...

[radiant arch]

you want an update for decorations mod?

[still frigate]

Sure!!!

By the by, my colony is starting to thrive again.

[radiant arch]

need to quickly test the factions, but i think this is ready for now

[radiant arch]

it's exponential growth from there!

[still frigate]

That is so pretty!

Is it live on steam?!!!

[radiant arch]

mod is on steam. update will take ~1h (need to see it loads for all factions and pc is slow..)

[still frigate]

I've got the mod alresdy and using it. 😛

@shell fiber Such a nice walkway.... to bad my beavers have zip lines. But it looks cool for me!

Those dams sorta make my new district center look like a prison, eh? 🤣

What beaver in their right mind?... Oh yeah, I'm not in my right mind.

[radiant arch]

i can't see any of us ever beat a whitepaw tbh.. that stew is thick..

[still frigate]

@radiant arch Did you see ALL THAT FOOD?!!! No more starving allowed!

[radiant arch]

oh, now i see the lights too! nice!

[still frigate]

I love them!

[radiant arch]

and the little fellow with the hammer secretly leaving the prison

only whitepaws left to test.. 🤞 (skipping greedy for being lazy)

[shell fiber]

Why only cross-shaped dams ? You don't like the normal ones ? They are quite cheaper

[radiant arch]

maybe i should come up with a small decoration/ attraction for those 3x3 dam upgrades??

[still frigate]

Because I'm a derp sometimes. I nickel and dime the power lines then ignore the dams. /laughs

[shell fiber]

Hmm... Maybe I should make a corner piece ?

[still frigate]

Remember, I hardly use dams. I'm trying to break that naughty habit.

[radiant arch]

might look really cool!

[still frigate]

That would be neat, but you don't need to change because I am dumb.

Remember where I am from. I basically had to teach myself how to think!

Obviously, my self-education still has a ways to go.

😛

I have cursed at this map enough that more than once I have forgotten -I- made it. 🤣

[radiant arch]

sounds fun!

@still frigate decorations update is out on steam. could load and use it with whitepaws. need materials mod update from earlier today

[still frigate]

I run @woeful sun's mod so when I update, I get the latest of everything!

[cloud flax]

Love those lantern posts!!! For sure going in my tunnels

[still frigate]

I know this is another game, but these numbers have to be doctored! Right? /laughs

[radiant arch]

they could have screenshotted automatically at that number?

i like the average reign part

[still frigate]

This is the devs doing a post playtest analysis.

[cloud flax]

Get tonss of bachelor's in agronomy and build them GMO labs

[still frigate]

Okay, what am I missing???

[still frigate]

I was obsessive enough about that game I got indirectly referenced in one of their press releases. /laughs

[radiant arch]

ohh, now i'm interested in it too

[still frigate]

I haven't reconnected my trifecta of ENS, but I think I have sufficient credentials awaiting. 😛

[still frigate]

Okay, I have prematurely reconnected my ENS cluster, Pray tell what you reference.

[cloud flax]

For the dams, GMO growing labs are best, 3x3 tiles with only 3 pop

And you can place floodgates over it to raise it to 3x5

So you can basically cover 15 tiles with only 3 pop, hence best beaver dam building

Though they would likely be mostly useless in function though

[still frigate]

Sorry, I misunderstood. Was thinking of an alternate way to get dirt. 😛

[cloud flax]

Aaah lol

[radiant arch]

balloon farming (salt to dirt) and burning through metal to get those drills working 🙂

[still frigate]

GMO are great as dams... if you face them the correct way. 😊

[radiant arch]

when trebuchet still worked it could give about 2 blocks per day 🙂

[cloud flax]

The other option is to make the wine cellar but it's only 3X2 and only need 3pop too

[radiant arch]

that's 2-3 dirt blocks + levee you can use instead?

4-5 blocks for the GMO size

[still frigate]

Until you suggested it, I hadn't thought of mixing levee with dirt blocks.

[cloud flax]

Yep. 4.5 dirt pee GMO lab

[radiant arch]

advanced sawmill is 3 tiles per beaver too (9x4 back?)

[cloud flax]

I never think dirt without levees lol... My thought process is always where all the levees aren't possible, only there put dirr

[radiant arch]

i spend a whole cycle and some on building a dirt container for the wonder once 🙂

[cloud flax]

Tbh it would actually be a really good candidate for long dams!!!

[radiant arch]

i always only remember afterwards 🙂

[still frigate]

I will say it again. I can be a bit slow sometimes. /laughs

[cloud flax]

I had looked and beaver to tiles ratio cuz I wanted to build wonder without much terraforming at all lol

[radiant arch]

"water beavers: the quest to cheaply put a wonder in middle of town"

[shell fiber]

Okay 🤔 so it's mostly available soon ish, at least post factory

What about the nursing license itself ?

[still frigate]

And then it KILLS everyone!

[cloud flax]

You can see the wonder here near the balloons

[radiant arch]

looks fine?

"Ingredients": [
      {
        "Id": "Pencils",
        "Amount": 25
      },
      {
        "Id": "Paper",
        "Amount": 50
      },
      {
        "Id": "BetterMedicine",
        "Amount": 25
      },
      {
        "Id": "Alcohol",
        "Amount": 20
      },
      {
        "Id": "Berries",
        "Amount": 50
      },
      {
        "Id": "Cure",
        "Amount": 30
      },
      {
        "Id": "BrainSalts",
        "Amount": 30
      }
    ],

[cloud flax]

That is exactly where I put it ☠️
I didn't know what it even did....

[radiant arch]

want better papermill for this, but should be all available by that point

[cloud flax]

It actually came in handy when I was pressure testing my map and then had like 120+ well being with 1.5k beavers and no one was dying and I was struggling to play.

Did it couple of times as pop control measure lol

[shell fiber]

Hmmm... Yeah so it could be better if the clinic did not require lab glassware 🤔

[radiant arch]

just remembered that https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/v1.0/enUS_Whitepaws.html also holds all this detail 🙂

[radiant arch]

can skip on the medium mine requirement that way, yes

[still frigate]

sleep is taking me.

[radiant arch]

gn

[shell fiber]

Good night !

[cloud flax]

Nighttt! Sleep tight

But serious injuries only start happening after getting into big industries right? Or has that been changed

[radiant arch]

there's trouble for new players managing minor injury badly (and confusion about it healing by itself)

imho having the clinic part of the tutorial is a good way to help them - plus prepare for the next step of the major ills

[woeful sun]

But lags behind, only version 6.1.8 at the moment

[radiant arch]

my dev copy is 6.1.7 😇

i should learn to symlink the steam workshop item 🤔

[woeful sun]

I use Link Shell Extension

and then actually create Junctions (they seem to work better than symbolic links for some reason)

[still frigate]

@radiant arch You wound me, sir! j/k

[still frigate]

Sunflower farming vs hydroponics...

hydroponic: 160 hrs = 225 sunflowers
farming: 160 hours (5 days 20 hours) gives 3 per plot.

• needs 75 plots to keep up
• also means more housing and more workers.
• shown farm is 121 + 24 + 98 + 30 + 11 + 64 = 348 plots = 1,044 sunflowers

-IF- my math is correct, it looks like the farm might very well be worth all the housing it opens up and workers it hires.

Thoughts? (ignoring the pumpkin bonus at the side)

[livid zephyr]

were you expecting easy? 😛

[still frigate]

Not expecting easy. He's just -forcing- me to start preparing to make deluxe stew. I had been ignoring it until now.

[woeful sun]

mwwhahahahaha

[radiant arch]

it's soooo good 😉

[still frigate]

My current efforts are thwarted by a lack of cereal bars, which are needing berries.

GMO berries is under construction.

I think I need to start making bots.

[radiant arch]

btw: any issues with the lantern colours? like contrasts, feeling off, or lacking brightness?
did seriously overthink those and made 7+ versions before giving up and pushing this one 🙂

[still frigate]

No issues at all.

It's alive!

[cloud flax]

Doesn't that just mean you need 4 hydroponics stacked up :P

I still consider hydroponics better just cuz it's virtual free food (with only log inputs)
With farms, it's the labour that's input and you need to feed the labour. Hence can spam hydroponics as much as I want without any repercussions.

Ofc it looses worker speed bonus

[radiant arch]

worker speed doesn't really matter for farming, does it? plants grow same speed, they just cover slightly more ground with single farmer

plus bots can run hydroponics - they not need feed and they hardly expire in thousands of years

[cloud flax]

But that should allow for faster harvesting time and hence larger area per farmer right

[radiant arch]

yeah, late big farmhouse is a machine in itself

still, plants wont grow any faster and hydroponics give twice the base amount per tile (and can be stacked)
even if workforce need is low for farmers, these still outperform them imho

[shell fiber]

Not sure I understand your calculation 🤔 but keep in mind that it takes time to harvest and plant the crops, which is often the limiting factor

[shell fiber]

I'll probably make them consume a tiny bit of science 😊

[cloud flax]

Yasssssssssss

Finally a science dump!!

[still frigate]

I have taken your suggestions to heart.

@shell fiber I am on my way to shutting down all industrial kitchens in favor of clockwork kitchens, Are you certain you don't want to add pumpkin chips to the things industrial kitchens can make?

[still frigate]

@radiant arch You were asking if you went overboard? I don't think so.

[radiant arch]

was there any need to update the script pack? @shell fiber
terrain building height was working now, wasn't it? anything else?

(currently working on it)

[still frigate]

Nox's Mechanical Drill Scripts UPDATED

Now with ANDs and ORs to make them more reliable.

IRON:```condition:(or (ge (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Ironore) 25000) (ge (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Dirt) 15000) (ge (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Rock) 7500))
action:(act Pausable.Pause)

condition:(and (lt (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Ironore) 25000) (lt (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Dirt) 15000) (lt (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Rock) 7500))
action:(act Pausable.Unpause) **COAL:**condition:(or (ge (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Coal) 25000) (ge (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Dirt) 15000) (ge (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Rock) 7500))
action:(act Pausable.Pause)

condition:(and (lt (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Coal) 25000) (lt (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Dirt) 15000) (lt (sig Inventory.OutputGood.Rock) 7500))
action:(act Pausable.Unpause)```

Despite supposedly not needing them anymore, -I- still do. So sharing.

EDIT: I think smart power is preventing things from emptying properly. Not just the drills. I have disabled it.

Also, -much- happier beavers:

So is it the general consensus that if I don't have bots standing around then I don't have enough?

[livid zephyr]

would think that means that they're all busy hauling stuff somewhere

so yeah, there seems to be plenty to be hauled around where they dont have idle time

[still frigate]

I have a lot of beaver haulers too and still no bots being lazy.

So more bots!

I'm starting to like my little fortress/prison district center, especially at night thanks to @radiant arch.

[radiant arch]

yeah, it's very 'inviting' haha

even has a snack bar and it's own bath now