Water Beaver Overhaul

[west yarrow]

and the baloons...

[storm prawn]

Wont show those until an elevator to the abyss is built. See #1070709592176197642 message

It's just like the acquifer drills not being available on maps without any aquifers

[shell fiber]

That is nevertheless undesirable behavior, I'll see if I can trick the engine into displaying then anyway 🤔

Thank you guys for debugging the text issue for me, that would have taken me a while

[radiant arch]

if it's difficult that might be something easy to fix with code - unhide all upgrades, or add some spec to unhide some only

[still frigate]

a new crash

@shell fiber
Steps that led to it:

• I had built a water tower where I wanted a forester (just woke up, brain foggy)
• deleted said water tower, which did have water already
• placed forester where it was.
• selected highest priority and drug mouse over the area to cleanup remains, as I always do
• selection did include the gatherer cottage right beside the forester.

I've no clue what exactly triggered this in that process; it is a standard operating procedure for me that I do all the time.

[woeful sun]

Seems to be TimberCommons releated

[still frigate]

It didn't repeat after a reload and repeat of the scenario. I must have glitched it just right.

[woeful sun]

mmm

[still frigate]

Nox's Sawdust Regulation Script

I got tired of trying to regulate my sawdust usage. Either not enough for paper and stuff, or too much and plank production shuts down. So here is a script that switches mushroom recipes between slow and fast to regulate supplies. The trigger number may need adjusted to your preference.

Hope this makes someone's game a bit more fun.

condition:(ge (sig District.ResourceStock.Sawdust) 10000)
action:(act Manufactory.SetRecipe 'Mushrooms2')

condition:(lt (sig District.ResourceStock.Sawdust) 10000)
action:(act Manufactory.SetRecipe 'Mushrooms1')```

[still frigate]

After running that script a bit I changed it to 20000 (200 units).

[radiant arch]

it would actually delete some wood / sawdust on every switch, wouldn't it?

isn't that expensive if you need to switch often?

[still frigate]

It doesn't, I am happy to report.

When it swithces back the previous one resumes where it was.

[radiant arch]

pending recipe ingredients aren't lost anymore?

[still frigate]

Not sure when that changed, but a welcome change.

Got me paranoid that I was imagining it, so I checked manually.

• slow recipe
• fast recipe
• back to slow

It -did- reset. So, yes, this script is much less valuable now. 🙁

I know there were things I would switch and then they would go back to where they were... hrm...

When I figure out what I'll let you know.

If your numbers aren't on the edge and switching often, then it has more value.

[shell fiber]

For the record, what is the mod doing this. And where do you input that data ?
I might want to take a look at it

[cloud flax]

Automation mod i believe

[radiant arch]

yeah, the one by igor. has a small icon on each building that opens popup to set those rules.

[lucid flame]

Question, is there a trick to getting the gravity batteries to raise back up?

[cloud flax]

More power generation than consumption

Should work like normal gravity batteries

You can maybe also consider the smart power mod

[still frigate]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3324234282

[shell fiber]

Oh. That seems a bit complicated for the average fool 😕

I could figure it out but if people have to deal with ghost dependencies and code is not good.
If I could engrain the logic in a building directly that would be neat, but otherwise... Not so much

[still frigate]

You can use the constructor, which is rather easy.

I make most of my scripts with the constructor, to be honest.

[wary panther]

Why should only the beavers experience suffering?

But yeah, Automation is pretty key with whitepaws, since you only get simple over-the-top floodgates, and have to reconfigure them all over every season to route between irrigation/drainage/diversion

so I usually end up witha linked network of automation triggers so certain floodgates are masters for a set of downstream reactions

[still frigate]

Here is recreating my sawdust script (rather than just copying it).

• chose signal and conditional (>= 200 in this case)
• selection actions
• save rule (single button not shown)
• duplicate rule (single button not shown)
• invert duplicated rule (single button not shown)
• modify action for duplicated rule (dropdown not shown)
• save result

OOPS!: I didn't capture the image after clicking invert.

I put them up here in a copy paste format for importing and exporting.
(there are buttons for that as well)

Correct image after clicking invert.

It is so easy even this old man can do it. (Pretend I don't have a bachelor degree in computer science & information systems management 😛 )

It's from 1996. One of the language I learned was COBOL 80 ffs!

[wary panther]

You already showed your age (and good taste), you picked the lisp dialect instead of the pythonic one

https://xkcd.com/297/

xkcd: Lisp Cycles

I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the MIT computer science program permanently.

[woeful sun]

I think LISP was the default dialect, Python came later (and is maybe the default going forwards?)

[still frigate]

I should probably take the time to learn python some day.

Once one knows how to program in two or 3 languages it mostly becomes learning the quarks and syntax of a new language; you already have the foundation.

[woeful sun]

The quarks, mmm, I suppose that they are the fundamental building blocks, so it makes sense 😛

but yea, for most infix languages (c, c++, pascal, java, python, vb, ruby, c#, etc), they look 80% the same

LISP is just ... so different

like Prolog or Erlang

[still frigate]

I learned (in chronological order even) PetBASIC, Turbo Pascal, C++, COBOL 80... then - many years later - visual basic.net. Between that was a lot of scripting.

[woeful sun]

similar, if I remember correcly: basica/gwbasic, logo, x86 assembly, pascal, vb, java, c/c++, vb.net, python, c#, cil, go

[still frigate]

Nice

[woeful sun]

I never got to control a physical turtle from logo, I saw my first one a couple of years ago at a Vintage Computer Festival

[still frigate]

I played with turtle graphics on the Commodore 64 with a program I typed in from RUN Magazine. /laughs

Oh, I did NOT make this easy on myself. /laughs

[still frigate]

A great tower of metal at the top of the map, all at different heigts to make it look the same-ish height, with a hidden, slightly covered, underground ruin for abyssal explorations.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber looks like we have a missing texture here.

EDIT: the bad texture only shows up when the water is deep. As levels went down in a drought the pink went away.

[naive tide]

Is that a WhitePaws building perchance?

[still frigate]

Yes.

[naive tide]

Yeh I figured that as soon as I typed that XP

[still frigate]

It is sorta equivalent to a hybrid between the sluice and the mechanical pump. It is a free unlock that wants power.

[still frigate]

On day 659 (Cycle 33, day 5) I finally built a lotus farm that I was happy with and fairly certain would not suffer contamination.

The lack of methane has really held me back, but I got a lot of other stuff done while blasting this out and making sure the water to it would be filtered.

[cloud flax]

Am I the o ly one who rarely uses pit and latted lodges 🫣

[still frigate]

I love them! They are so good for so many things, especially getting down a long way like this. Most of those hold water.

In this case 3 haulers, 1 builder and 6 double-high water tanks.

Since they are top accessed and liquid tanks don't have side doors they are perfect for blocking the drain in this badwater pool

But as you can see, the majority are not pit & ladder structures.

[abstract vector]

They make great corners if you're trying to make a L dam

[still frigate]

We are way underpowered. 50% to 66% available power. I have to turn things off and leave them dormant unless I really need what they provide.

The high half has lots of geothermal (which is really nerfed with this clan) but almost no water flow. The bottom half has little or no geothermal, but great flow for waterwheels. All geothermal combined is giving 800 power. Just one large water wheel in the lowlands and it nearly does the same duty. Currently working on getting them together and finishing a second water wheel.

[livid zephyr]

have managed to get 4 solar arrays up and running w/o a Foundry built yet 😛

[cloud flax]

I usually would just build stairs if not ladders 🫣
I just try to keep pop to the min possible. Though I don't know how I will plan for seeps

And we got a whitepaws geo thermal plant?

[still frigate]

Unlocked at start. 40 wood, 25 clay, 1 gear

[cloud flax]

We fs need adv. Geotherm it seems. New blueprint for it maybe?

[still frigate]

Oh, yes plz!

@shell fiber definite need avdanced geo blueprints!!! 🥺

[still frigate]

The colony seriously needs to faceplant some beavers into pure water.

@shell fiber bad water this time.

[radiant arch]

showering / farming in mixed water?

[still frigate]

Nope. I had to expose them to bad water to setup a bad water removal pump.

This entire cluster duck was imagined up to let beavers into the dam drain house without exposing them to bad water. Bu because of mistakes I made, the cost in contamination to make it was brutal.

Having the door on the exit side is great when filtering for clean water. But doom and gloom otherwise.

Would have been easier if I didn't put the whole mess under thr ancient aqueduct waterfall. My poor planning there.

The greater colony is doing rather well. I need to think of a new name for this map though.

Seeping Desert doesn't fit.

On the shores of Wolfpaw Lake or Beyond the Great Fault are both contenders, but my brain is nagging at me that I can do better.

[livid zephyr]

the sawblades yearn for freedom

[high light]

I've been away for about a week so apologies if this is something known (seems other are running fine right now). white paws v6.0.6 from steam, all mods up to date I believe

[radiant arch]

should be fixed in current 6.0.9

not sure steam is up to date yet / might need to re-subscribe to force download

[woeful sun]

Or use Steam Update Buttons

[high light]

unsubscribing and resubscribing forced it to update to 6.0.9 and it is now working, cheers!

[still frigate]

They found updates to one of my mods (Automation) as I logged in and went to play.

[woeful sun]

Yep, I have a plan to try and do something similar with Mod Manager (show when updates are available on the main menu button)

[still frigate]

I don't use mod.io but if I did that would be sweet.

Rather than be smart and use the already made one I gifted to the map, I had to tap the other one. But with this, I have all the blueprints done except the two ENS ones.

And one of the ENS ones told me I'm not making spicy sodas yet.

Brambles and water. Hrmmmm? Some sort of root beer?

[still frigate]

I must learn patience.

[livid zephyr]

did my first thing from the ENS with 1 person in there haha

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I jsut realzied the logging loft comes in too high also.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber
Placing bot factory crashes the game.

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

Timberborn.Particles.ParticlesCache.CreateParticleAttachments (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable1[T] attachmentIds) (at <8bc52947987a44fb84b5082aa6f663c5>:0) Timberborn.Particles.ParticlesCache.GetParticlesRunner (System.Collections.Generic.IList1[T] attachmentIds) (at <8bc52947987a44fb84b5082aa6f663c5>:0)
Timberborn.BotUpkeep.BotManufactoryAnimationController.InitializeEntity () (at <41672b7cda1849a1b4376f2e21e77e16>:0)
Timberborn.EntitySystem.EntityComponent.Initialize () (at <9da0bc27436b4eddbee1c9e51240a029>:0)
Timberborn.EntitySystem.EntityComponent.InitializeIfUninitialized () (at <9da0bc27436b4eddbee1c9e51240a029>:0)
Timberborn.EntitySystem.EntityComponent.Start () (at <9da0bc27436b4eddbee1c9e51240a029>:0)
Timberborn.BaseComponentSystem.BaseComponentUnityAdapter.Start () (at <3aa258505fb545349ccf2b123764073c>:0)

[shell fiber]

Hi !
Sorry guys, I don't think I'll have much time to mod this week.
At best I'll try to fix the jail crash by editing the text for the beaver jail, and whatever trivial fix can be done in five minutes

[still frigate]

Understood. The bot factory and two others are the only major ones remaining anyway, I believe. The rest are mostly cosmetic.

[shell fiber]

I can most likely fix the but factory easily by comparing with the current ones

The logging loft is also fairly easy

[still frigate]

You are really that close to having all the major bugs knocked out.

Hot storage and the bot assembler are the last two things that crash the game, I believe! 🙂

[nova crescent]

Take your time.

[nova crescent]

Does hot storage crash the game?

[still frigate]

Yeah, I'm not trying to rush you. I am praising all you have accomplished.
@shell fiber

[still frigate]

The big one, not the bowls.

"Advanced Warm Storage"

[nova crescent]

Ahh. Not yet unlocked that one. 😂
You guys have found all the bugs for 1.0. 👏👏 Awesome.

[still frigate]

I tried to make sure I didn't miss any. I missed a lot for U7.

[still frigate]

Does anyone know whether the grand dam can cope with mixed water or not? Does it shut down at any level of contamination less than 100% and if so, what is that cutoff?

[still frigate]

One river, 3 contamination levels. I would have expected them to mix better by this point. I guess it's not -that- far.

[still frigate]

And on this 828th day of the colony (Cycle 41, day 10), research and duplication of the ENS blueprints has been completed!!!

[livid zephyr]

idk if this was intentional or not, but everything the clinic makes doesnt have anywhere to be stored other than at the clinic

[still frigate]

That is intentional.

I was confused by that in U7 and had to ask.

[shell fiber]

yes, because making it also generates science (as you'd expect for having specialists actively working on curing diseases) i made it unstorable so that people can't just build a massive stash of it to generate science.
and actually the red cross you see is the hidden building that can store them, otherwise the game crashes 😉
but i think it cost one million logs and stores one item 🤪

[shell fiber]

i wish someone could fix this abomination 😑

oh, i just saw an update dropped

UnderstructureConstraint no longer hides a building if the understructure can be built by the player, which only matters for mods, for now. well that solves one problem

[still frigate]

I hope it doesn't break things too badly.

The changelog looks benign enough.

[shell fiber]

there's some weird thing happening with the shaft sound emitter script, i'm looking into it now

[still frigate]

I saw the dev's response, so maybe?

[shell fiber]

let's hope, although that might be like the delivery priority issue, as long as it's not an issue for the base game...

but i thing enough people have mods adding complicated reciepes (bento boxes, berry pies etc) that they might consider it anyway

[shell fiber]

i'll go back to work now, tell me is everythign is working 👍

[still frigate]

I'll update and load into my testing game. What all am I checking?

[nova crescent]

May be @ionic swift 😂😋

[still frigate]

based on last known issues:

• Bot assembler still crashing
• MAJOR: localization text still has strikethrough: Jailed beavers will no longer need drinks, food, sleep, shelter nor cleaning until they <s>have learned their lesson</s> feel better.",792
• logging loft in correct place
• advanced warm storage working!
• nuclear reactor shows again!
  I hope I didn't miss any.

(I did not test bananas)

[shell fiber]

make sure you downloaded 6.1.1, i uploaded 6.1.0 like and idiot and realised i forot to check it

ah, right, the text

well, here we go again

[still frigate]

The number is 6.1.1.

[shell fiber]

so steam did something weird ...

i felt that it uploaded unusually fast...

[still frigate]

As Steam does. 😛

[still frigate]

Let me know when to update again.

[shell fiber]

uploading now

[still frigate]

Updating now...

[still frigate]

Bananas are fixed! Yay!!!
Text is correct.
Bot assembler is working.

ALL known bugs are resolved.

remaining todo: animation for airship.

[shell fiber]

it is ?

i didn't touch bananas 😅

[still frigate]

No longer says nothing to do in range and has bananas in stock.

There is even a little harvesting in progress crate in there.

@shell fiber A grand celebration is in order, I would think. Cheers! 🥂

You never even got U7 this happy did you?

[shell fiber]

i had got U7 pretty close to completion, so... maybe😅

[still frigate]

I was AWOL for a few weeks near the end of U7...

[shell fiber]

okay, gotta go for today ! see you !

[still frigate]

Have a good one!

[ionic swift]

there you go ☝️

thanks @nova crescent for the ping 😛

would be nice if you could test to see if it's actually fixed

[high light]

@shell fiber and @storm gulch studying together in the ENS

[still frigate]

Verified fixed in WhitePaws.

[shell fiber]

Thank you ! Hurray 🙌

[livid zephyr]

had a good chuckle at that one

[abstract vector]

Is it time to let JC know that water beavers should be ready for a playthrough?

[high light]

He was here a few days ago asking and was informed

[still frigate]

I have tested it as thoroughtly as I am able. I can't guarantee 100% of the critical bugs are found, but I believe they have been. I am on a second start-to-end playthrough, this time without dev commands.

@shell fiber Here is another example of the scripting power and ease of @scarlet pelican's automation mod.

data source:

• I place a water gauge then click signals.
• From the three values, I name one for my signal and save (image 1)

actual script on the floodgate dam:

• I "create rule via constructor" and select my custom signal from the dropdown. (image 2)
• I select >= 0.1 (aka 10% contamination) and set the gate height to "0".
• I click duplicate then click invert
• I set the gate height to 0.85. (image 3)

Voilà ! I now have a script to drain the bad water away. No real programming knowledge necessary if one understands basic logic.

Figuring out that 0.1 = 10% was the hardest part of this whole script.

An importable version:

action:(act Floodgate.SetHeight 0)

condition:(lt (sig Signals.NOXcontamination1) 10)
action:(act Floodgate.SetHeight 85)```

importable version for the signal part of the stream gauge:

action:(act Signals.Set 'NOXcontamination1' (sig StreamGauge.Contamination))```

@shell fiber

minor bug: two pointer statues

Shouldn't there be a 4th statue, not just 3, or is my memory once again playing tricks on me? The two pointers also have different values when one hovers over them. It seems like a single statue entry has been accidently split into two entities.

[woeful sun]

huh, timbertrees sees the same:

  Pointer Statue [200⚛️]:
    ▶ 10 Logs
    ▶ 50 Metal blocks
    ▶ 5 Planks
    ▶ 30 Gold Dust
    ▼ Basic needs: Severe Injury within 3 tiles
    ▼ Basic needs: Major Burns within 3 tiles
    ▼ Basic needs: Severe Disease within 3 tiles
  Pointer Statue [200⚛️]:
    ▶ 10 Logs
    ▶ 50 Metal blocks
    ▶ 5 Planks
    ▶ 30 Gold Dust
    ▲ Awe: Pointer Statue within 3 tiles

What different values did you see?

[still frigate]

Probably a very easy fix.

[still frigate]

Same you show. One has injuries the other has awe

[woeful sun]

It's called Statue_PAIN internally

[nova crescent]

Then it's intentional.

[still frigate]

Yeah, but it should not be two separate items.

[bold aurora]

Fantastic mod. Thanks for your hard work. Currently in cycle 55 of my first play through.

I just encountered a null reference exception that crashed the game. I don't know for sure, but it may have to do with the top tier piles. I had recently built them, and I think it happened when a beaver tried to put something in it.

UnityEngine.Bindings.ThrowHelper.ThrowNullReferenceException (System.Object obj) (at <2cb30b38bb7f4a96bca7e68d6a9bf6fe>:0)
UnityEngine.Transform.get_localPosition () (at <2cb30b38bb7f4a96bca7e68d6a9bf6fe>:0)
IgorZ.TimberCommons.Stockpiles.GoodAmountTransformHeight.UpdateTargetHeight (IgorZ.TimberCommons.Stockpiles.GoodAmountTransformHeight+HeightSpec spec) (at R:/TimberbornMods/TimberCommons/Stockpiles/GoodAmountTransformHeight.cs:83)
IgorZ.TimberCommons.Stockpiles.GoodAmountTransformHeight.OnInventoryChanged (System.Object sender, Timberborn.InventorySystem.InventoryChangedEventArgs e) (at R:/TimberbornMods/TimberCommons/Stockpiles/GoodAmountTransformHeight.cs:74) ```
> Had to truncate the exception to fit, but I believe this is the important part

[still frigate]

Just as a tip: Next time, simply drag the log file (not the whole zip) into the message and it will be visible as an attachment.

[bold aurora]

Thanks for the tip, I will keep that in mind if I encounter any more issues.

[still frigate]

Is this a 1-off error or does it happen every time? The part of the log you copied isn't even this specific mod, but TimberCommons. I know I've had 1-off crashes that couldn't be repeated and haven't happened again.

Beyond that, I'll have to leave it to more skilled people to diagnose. I'm just a tester.

[bold aurora]

Let me check, I was going to take this as a chance to put the game down and go to bed at a decent hour for once. 😆

[still frigate]

That never happens. 😛

42?! I -really- need to pay better attention to what I am doing.

[naive tide]

The secret to agronomy is 42

[still frigate]

Well, I guess I have no excuses for not making advanced food stuffs.

[naive tide]

That's about the best thing I've said in this whole server 🤭

easily the silliest

[still frigate]

Mr. Adams would have approved, I am sure.

[naive tide]

you also know hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy I see

Cultured :3

[still frigate]

A bit of trivia. He occasionally wrote for Doctor Who.

But yes, I have read all 5 books in the trilogy.

[naive tide]

yep! (was it during the early eras where a bunch of episodes are missing?)

[still frigate]

No, more around the Tom Baker era (70s), I believe.

Yep. Looked it up.
Douglas Adams served as script editor for Doctor Who Season 17 and wrote three primary stories featuring the Fourth Doctor (Tom Baker): "The Pirate Planet" (1978), "City of Death" (1979), and the famously unfinished "Shada" (1979). His contributions are noted for their witty, sci-fi humor, heavily influencing the show's tone during his tenure,

Missing episodes are all 60s era stuff. William Hartnell and Patrick Troughton. There was a bit of missing Jon Pertwee stuff but it has all been recovered.

I know this is waaaay off topic, but it was too clever to ignore... and David Bradley made a great Doctor #1

[bold aurora]

Appears to be a 1-off error. I was not able to reproduce the crash.

[still frigate]

Just the right combination of circumstances. I've had that numerous times myself with Timberborn, WaterPaws or not.

[livid zephyr]

am I crazy for building a container for the wonder out of dirt?

[still frigate]

At 1,000 dirt per block, yes. 😛

[bold aurora]

Go big or go home right

[livid zephyr]

will be sling lots of rocks and metal blocks to keep drills diggin

[still frigate]

I need to get better power setup. Every drought just kills my industry. I go from over 5,000 hp to 800 hp during a drought and it takes 2-3 days after the drought for my power to build back up.

[still frigate]

I haven't unlocked the big drills this playthrough, yet.

But I need them!

[livid zephyr]

with well being near 100, have seen my solar arrays pulling in 900+ power

just sayin

[still frigate]

Current needs are a wee bit higher.

And I have some things shutdown to save power.

[bold aurora]

Methane & Solar get me through droughts with no issue.

This is without my methane generators running

[still frigate]

I -should- setup methane.

[bold aurora]

It's actually pretty efficient, I seem to always have a full storage container of methane. With just two fermentation barrels.

[shell fiber]

It's a debugging statue 😉
Should be devlocked

[bold aurora]

The methane generators may be too powerful to be honest.

[still frigate]

I tend to go overboard on such things. This is my methane production... I'm just not utilizing it.

[shell fiber]

Yes

[bold aurora]

You could probably run purely on methane lol

Need to power a single building that requires 50bp? Use 2 methane generators just because lol

[shell fiber]

I think most people tend to ignore it, so it's probably okay 🤔

[still frigate]

Overpowered would be if it were so good that I never went nuclear.

[bold aurora]

2 of them are close to the small nuclear generator

[still frigate]

Ture, but I generally call the 2,500 for the small nuclear underpowered, rather than these overpowered.

just one of my waterwheels is putting out nearly 700.

[bold aurora]

To be on theme with the mod, I wouldn't mind if you increased the fuel usage. That being said I only have two built, and hardly ever turn them on anymore. I tend to turn my solar arrays on instead.

[still frigate]

I had to go into dev mode to look at my "accessible" bad water source. It is only strength 1. I usually have them much stronger.

My inaccessible ones are strength 6, strength 0.666, and strength 3.

I guess the strength 3 could be accessed.

All other bad water is from seeps and pipes.

[woeful sun]

Missing translations:

• Template: WoodenStairs: Building.WoodenStairs.DisplayName
• Recipe: BachelorInHoomanities: Lapantouflemagic.BachelorInHoomanities.DisplayName
• Engine.WhitePaws: Lapantouflemagic.NEWEngine.DisplayName
• BlockObjectToolGroupSpec: Shafts: sprites/Whitepaws Sprites/Buildings/PowerShaftHorizontalStraight (this is because the NameLocKey has the Icon path, not the NameLocKey)
• Recipe: BombToss: Lapantouflemagic.KABOOM.DisplayName

[still frigate]

And calling my "accessible" one accessible is a bit of a stretch. It comes out here, but is actually deeper underground (roughly where the circle is) and would have to be blasted to be exposed.

[woeful sun]

Need blueprint parse warnings:

beaver.hunger NeedSpec.StartingValue: float vs int
beaver.thirst NeedSpec.StartingValue: float vs int

[still frigate]

Since I've got the methane to spare, I'm gonna follow your lead and make a few.

[still frigate]

It is things like this that distract me and cause me to have 42 bachelor degrees in a box. 😛

[bold aurora]

I know what you mean

[still frigate]

I have a method that prevents that. I keep my copyist and artist on different recipes.

I'm mostly sane in the blueprints area:

I got carried away with the ENS. I am not going to be making 17 more of them.

[bold aurora]

I try to keep mine on comic books, and only make enough blueprints for what I think I would need for the entire play through.

[still frigate]

That is what I did.

[still frigate]

Sitting here wondering what is taking so long and I see I forgot a critical part...

A good reason to always have at least 2 ENS. I prefer 4+ myself, but I haven't allocated a place for the next 2.

[woeful sun]

nit: there's a typo in ToolGroup.AdvancedBuidlings, and technically all of the files could be named BlockObjectToolGroup, not plain ToolGroup.

The game doesn't care about the filenames, but I haven't fixed timbertrees to (not care) yet.

[woeful sun]

Yea, I wish the game would highlight the 1 line you're missing an item for -- maybe a future mod?

or if the building refuses to run, which outputs are full

[still frigate]

Yeah. That very thing was what led to my sawdust script yesterday.

[woeful sun]

Updated timbertrees to 6.1.2 update

[still frigate]

refreshed! I've been using it a lot more this playthrough.

[woeful sun]

Do you use "Tool Finder" or "Omni Bar & Todo List"?

[still frigate]

tool finder

[still frigate]

Those 4 give me just enough during a drought.

Now to automate them...

There. Now I wont be wasting methane.

[shell fiber]

tell me if you think they are overpowered / underconsumming too

[still frigate]

I don't think they are overpowered. As for fuel usage... I'd need to compare with IT fuel to power ratios for their combustion generator then scale to match output. I'll look into that tomorrow.

Or whenever I am awake again. /laughs

[cloud flax]

I got 100 of all the degrees 🫡

[cloud flax]

Atleast use some leviessss

[cloud flax]

Btw would it be possible to have a dirtblock building with 2 different recipies?

[shell fiber]

True, he could do a checkerboard of dirt and log levees 🤔
I guess that's your second recipe 😅

[cloud flax]

No no no

I was thinking about the terrafoming

And I was like let there be the 1000 dirt block dirt
But there could be another recipe which uses whatever res you get once you demolish a tunnel (waste rocks, dirt, iron, coal with some additional binding materials) and compress them to a dirt block (a new resource) that can be used for the new dirt block building

Hot nuclear press might be a good building to do it maybe 🫣

Locks it away pretty far down in tech tree

[shell fiber]

Hmm... That's not too bad of an idea 🤔

But the original idea was also to not let people rework the entire map as they always do...

[cloud flax]

Tbh, you can still make it expensive by requiring let's say 1/0.1 nuclear fuel per block and maybe make the building consume like 10/20k power. It's just that once you reach like end game like I did, at cycle 80/90 i think we deserve that creative freedom to terraform a bit more fast than builders taking ages to build a single dirt block

And at that stage, dirt is still much better used for hand panning to get gold dust so that I can create my gold fenced beaver praying area with all the beaver statues

[cloud flax]

I played till cycle 133 or something in U7 update and I think I would have made like at max 30-40 dirt blocks total in entire game

[radiant arch]

easily made 100 by 70th cycle on a very small map (double diorama)

but i believe that's around the limit it goes to without big effort

[shell fiber]

hmm... yeah, fair point, once you reach the endgame you should be left free to do whatever.

[radiant arch]

currently the fastest strategy i could find was dynamite science from trebuchet to burn metal and thus create huge amount of dirt. easily replaced ENS, but very end/ post game for science..

[livid zephyr]

plan on ussing a few up top for aesthetic purposes, just have platforms placed in some gaps for now though

[cloud flax]

Were you able to make any gold bars with that much terrafoming?

[radiant arch]

plenty, yes. all statues, abyss nuclear and all.

though i basically only started terraforming around 50th cycle when gold need dropped to almost none - wanted to make a floating bath for the wonder 🙂 (had to trick some using levee as filler, for that 5x5x6 bath needed a lot of dirt blocks.. )

and relied on getting rid of drill output fast enough to keep up (had 2 or 3 dirt balloons, 2 dirt abyss mines and 4+ drills i believe). gave a decent, yet slow output

oh.. might have made couple of 100s .. technically would have needed 500?? around 1 per day makes sense i guess.. well, whatever

[cloud flax]

I think I got around only 100 gold bars total...

I was wanting to have like 180 atleast to fill up atleast 1 pole but then 1.0 released

Oh also like the simple screw press building, like 2/3 of them i found usually to be more than enough for even end late game oil production atleast for me.

So maybe if you don't wanna change much, you could actually use the nuclear press for pressing ores and dirt into dirt blocks

[still frigate]

@shell fiber

The IronTeeth steam engine burns 0.1 logs and 0.3 water an hour to give 400 hp. So that is 0.25 logs and 0.75 water an hour to give 1000 and match the methane power.

So, in short, I do not think it is overpowered and its fuel use seems okay.

I do reiterate that I think the small nuclear power is underpowered. I'd double it to 5,000 at minimum.

I'm gonna take the time and get the sane data for EmberPelts since they have multiple levels of combustion power.

[cloud flax]

Wait methanw engine generates 1k power?? I thought it only generated 300

[still frigate]

Currently 1000.

[shell fiber]

that was the original design, which was far too weak

[cloud flax]

Yeah I only ever used it once to test lol

But 1k is a nice decent amount to be considered useful honestly

[shell fiber]

oooh, the old placeholder text 😅

[still frigate]

I thought that was intentional.

[cloud flax]

Same lol

Since we do have nice mid game power options maybe finally it's time to add the power connection to ENS too :P

[still frigate]

I came up with a better name for my map and gave it a bit more flavor text.

I have also done some tweaks to it to prevent the ancient aqueduct from breaking in a WhitePaws game. I also gave the player just a touch more scrap metal, fixed a couple of mistakes, and added a bit more vanity decoration on the side.

[still frigate]

Hrm... needing methane power to run the ENS? Is that what you are scheming?

[still frigate]

@shell fiber

These are the three power engines for the EmberPelts.

• Four small ones burns 0.24 logs and 0.8 water an hour to give 1000 and match the methane power.
• the medium one burns charcoal
  • first you have make that in a kiln with a 200 science unlock
  • 3 logs give you two charcoal per hour
  • Two of these use 0.12 charcoal and 0.78 water per hour to give the 1000 power to match the methane power. That is 16 2/3 hours for 3 logs vs 12 hours for 3 logs in the four small ones.
• The large one burns fuel
  • first you have to unlock the refinery.
  • Corn is the most efficient resource for making fuel. 2 corn and 3 water make 50 fuel at the rate of 10/hour.
  • ½ a unit of fuel per hour gives 1000 power.
  • 50 fuel (2 corn 3 water) gives 100 hours of power. This is incredibly cheap in my opinion.

I hope all of this helps.

[cloud flax]

Our performance got cancelled sadly so now I got some free time. Might check out how tutorial system works and hopefully atleast create some skeleton

[shell fiber]

I think the point to not forget is the emberpelts' power generation is meant to be mostly engines, so it's logical that they have very efficient ones

[still frigate]

Excellent point.

[cloud flax]

and water beavers have like all possible varieties of power esp if you plan on making something advanced for geothermal power too. Or was the engine supposed to counteract the need for water wheels in maps without flowing water

hmmm, all my tutorials are coming like this without any task.... i can just press continue and get through it without doing anything at all. is that how the tutorials supposed to be? or is it any mods affecting maybe?

[still frigate]

I honestly have no clue.

[valid salmon]

Hmm, my game breaks when I load up my save

save is from just a few days ago

[nova crescent]

Update the mod.

[valid salmon]

it doesnt autoupdate now that its on workshop?

[radiant arch]

it's not reliable with steam, sadly..
there's an update button in the game's mod list - or re-subscribing in steam - to force download new versions..

[naive tide]

Use the Steam Update Buttons mod

Makes it so much more reliable

[bold aurora]

Is this in the workshop yet?

[still frigate]

No... it probably should be. Maybe unlisted for now and I'll just share a link here until it's been tested by a few people.

I hope @shell fiber doesn't mind.

[still frigate]

Here it is:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3660226943

I am failing to figure out how to tag it.

[west yarrow]

I might still be able to get into my old world but I dug out a large space underground for lillypads

[radiant arch]

can't find in steam client

your steam page says 'no workshop items' too.. is it hidden?

[still frigate]

Yeah, but the link should take you to it. Stats show a couple of subscribers.

[shell fiber]

hi ! i'm back (for now)

[shell fiber]

some of the tutorials have a specific trigger, like having homeless beavers, or unstaffed buildings, for the whitepaws, it's better to overwrite them so they never appear

[shell fiber]

i don't mind, but what is there for me to mind ?

[shell fiber]

regarding the tutorial, right now what i need is to figure out the arborescence i want to have

put visually the original tutorial looks like this :

[livid zephyr]

Worked fine for me

Link that is

[shell fiber]

now for the whitepaws i'm trying to lay it out like this :

[cloud flax]

ooooh cool. I could make a flowchart then, and put more details in a spreadsheet for reference

[shell fiber]

working on it too

🙂

[cloud flax]

what are you using to make the flowcharts?

[shell fiber]

i'm making them in libre office 🤐

[cloud flax]

have you tried draw.io? its very easy and more structured towards making flow charts. and we can work together on the same file collaboratively

its browser based though

[shell fiber]

never used it, although i wouldn't mind using it

but i'm out of time for today

let's see if i can import it quiclky

whelp, that doesn't work

if someone feels like replicating this on draw.io, i'd be okay continuing it online of course

anyway, gotta go for today !

[cloud flax]

i can quickly whip it up in it then

see ya later man!

[shell fiber]

thank you !😊

[shell fiber]

Ooh, the release trailer is so nice 😊

[shell fiber]

Quick question, do people like the exercise plaza ? Tbh it feels a bit boring, I'm thinking I would be more enticed to build the dance hall instead 🤔

[radiant arch]

i like it for aesthetics. it's nice lights and fun to watch.
no real preferences between that and dance hall though.. kinda the same big flat unstackable dancefloor with lights, isn't it?

[still frigate]

I prefer the dance hall and I think the WhitePaws would be more about some fun than the work-for-fun attitude of the Iron Teeth,

[cloud flax]

prefer dance halls! it can be named as rain garden maybe. and beavers dancing under the rain. nice water beaver theme

[livid zephyr]

not understanding why all of a sudden ive had loads of beavers getting all the worst injuries very quickly

like all was good, then 1 day 50 or so got all 3, then the next more, and more, and i went all the way down to 6 active workers out of 360. now just bounces between 50-150 working

feel like it started once i got some nucleur stuff around, but cant say for certain at this point. been too long

but have tried deleting basically all that stuff and still a roller coaster

but i also reorganized everything to make it look a lot nicer and rebuilt almost all my mid game stuff to be organized

[cloud flax]

How many beavers you got?

[livid zephyr]

365 beds

part of why i rebuilt stuff. find out where i could trim down from the 500+ i had gotten up to

sorry, 411 beds, around 360 beavers living

[woeful sun]

You didn't build the wrong pointer statue did you?

[livid zephyr]

. . . .

just... i remember you guys mentioning the multiple statues to lapan the other day, and i obviously did too. just did read the details...

Deleted the offending ones and watching the populating rebound in real time lol...

Funnily enough, it wasn't killing the run. Just bringing things to a crawl at times

Ty. Would have taken me a while to figure that out. If at all

Devils in those dam details after all... and this mod was made for suffering lol

[shell fiber]

did you accidentally build a statue of pain ? 😑
it's the duplicate of the pointer statue, i accidentally let it visible 😅

[livid zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/kombucha-tea-girl-drink-hmm-no-well-gif-16080897

a? no. 3? there's a possibility...

[shell fiber]

ahahah

sorry, i shouldn't laugh

but that is kind of funny

[heavy lodge]

Now this after power billboard ? @shell fiber , you need the rename the faction description to "trapped pain" 🤣

[shell fiber]

no worries, it will be devlocked on the next version
and i changed it name lockey to statuePAIN so that there is less confusion, should someone have devmode active

[livid zephyr]

laugh it up. I am. kinda fitting really. you advertise pain with the mod

it delivered in droves for a bit for me

hahah

might i suggest a different direction for the name?

super happy fun time statue

to punish the dirty cheat

hahah

[heavy lodge]

Be careful , or Lapan will make beavers gathering resin having sticky hands 😂

[shell fiber]

they already do 😊

although it's caused by the workplace now 😉

high chance with the flag, low chance with the tapper's shack

[shell fiber]

it's effectively the same, no worries

[heavy lodge]

Glad that they don't use teeth for this, still be able to eat 😍

[livid zephyr]

there a plan to get pumpkin chips in something other than just the cooking tent by chance?

[shell fiber]

only 200 entries left on the french translation / total review of the entries 🎉

[shell fiber]

hmm... not really, but the CWKitchen could likely do it 🤔

[shell fiber]

i should specify, sticky hand fall under the "clean fur" wellbeing value, they just need showers/bath more often

oh, that reminds me...

beavers definitely deserve it...

after all, who likes to wash with cold water ?

we definitely need a nuclear onsen ☢️ ♨ 😊

[livid zephyr]

seems like that logical place to progress too for them

[cloud flax]

@shell fiber i just saw that mechanics lodge is science locked but architects lodge isnt. Is that intentional?

[shell fiber]

Hmm... Both should be 🤔

[cloud flax]

this is what i have managed till now, Am making another excel sheet with Description and Tasks for each. Focusing on tricky chains and making users explore various tabs

hmm, the arrows not visible... lemme see

[cloud flax]

oops sry, i ||dev|| placed Architects lodge, that unlocked it. sorry for false alarm!!

[shell fiber]

I haven't checked it too much yet. But we don't need to guide the player through everything I think 🤔

Maybe only the obtuse parts

[cloud flax]

@shell fiber
Since you are already looking at tutorial to make it more user friendly, I tried to create a more systematic grouping of buildings. If you ever plan to tweak it, might help out....
Note: (G) Means its a group with buildings in it. If there isnt anything within a group, There's basically no change within the group

[cloud flax]

i can remove a few like kimchi, irrigation tower, bananas
But the few Chains i kept were following:

1. Building Upgrades (water pump, farmhouse etc): Cuz its not present in base game and need proper placement
2. Dynamite chain: Just cuz its weird and people would wanna get them fs
3. Metal factory chain (the anvil jiggery pokery + medium mine setup using billboards)
4. Architects lodge> Blueprint Duplication > Large farm house > Trading Balloons Using Methane> Tree Nursery: This might be the biggest handholding i guess but it shows lots of faction mechanics, basically the entire mid game revolves around this and metal factory
5. It ends at ENS. I dont think need anything after ENS

[shell fiber]

Kimchi is necessary for science so yes (actually had forgot about it) and it's also a good point to talk about the brambles.

Irrigation towers are also good to talk about as part of a "let's grow this colony a little bit" that can also be a good moment to talk about the upgrades

But bananas are definitely not necessary, in part because it's too far, and in part because I might make them be harvested by the tree nursery like a farm would 🤔

Also a stray thought... Aren't the irrigation towers a bit too easy ? Like maybe they could be behind a blueprint ? 🤔

[radiant arch]

might be adding cooking braised cabbage to highlight food efficiency a thing too? i find this pretty unique how much it matters with this faction

[radiant arch]

it's a big enough issue to need them for some maps imho to softlock them. given how it's just a tiny aspect of the struggle (food, water, population) i not think it 'too' easy either

[cloud flax]

they do consume a lot of water... i think thats a big enough pain...

i was wondering if i should actually place it earlier rather than later.. like on 3rd or 5th Drought.....

or maybe put it up with the AllisHouse. That seems like a more better place honestly

[shell fiber]

It was a "side quest" in my plan, after the first drought because people have no business trying to get clay before that. And I want to use those triggers if I can 🤔

[shell fiber]

I don't think we have the tools to do that 🤔

[cloud flax]

what triggers do we have?

[shell fiber]

The five triggers I have indicated as diamonds in my original flowchart I think

Actually 7

[cloud flax]

am only seeing 6...

[shell fiber]

ah, for the record building glorious storage is no longer necessary early on

bbecause the builders now will pick up junk

[shell fiber]

Ah yes , you're correct

[cloud flax]

Stairs unlocks, (dont think necessary)
Platform Built, (Dont Think necessary)
Survived First Bad Tide
Survived First Drought
missing Dam (whats this??)
Unemployed Beavers (used) for Hauling

[shell fiber]

Not sure what the missing dam is meant to be

[cloud flax]

survived first bad tide is a bit tricky one cuz some people might push the bad tide to like late cycles or might completely turn it off even...

[shell fiber]

also good point, we can introduce the irrigation tower before the firts badtide

ah yes

also its better to prepare for it before the first badtide 😅

ah, sorry I have to go soon

[cloud flax]

aaah no worries. will have to look if we can have custom triggers like i had for Day 5 for filth or Contaminated Beavers>0

[cloud flax]

But do give this a look too. Cuz if you plan on doing something like this, i can make the Tech tree colour coded with their location regarding which group they fall in

[cloud flax]

@radiant arch @still frigate do look through the tutorial tree and think i should add/remove anything from this

[radiant arch]

only can do tomorrow. but will try

[cloud flax]

ah yeah am as well mostly done for today! will get to making the excel

[shell fiber]

Is there a link you can share so we can work on it ?

[livid zephyr]

hate that i just found another of the satues off by itself next to an elevator to the abyss. which had a hooman medical facility. so get healed at the med facility, and then just get slapped into oblivion as soon as you leave it...haha

[livid zephyr]

not too shabby. built almost all the buildings at least once. know there was a few oddball ones i didnt get to though.

[radiant arch]

looks really deep already!

what i not get is the jobVac>0 line
=> mushroom, fermentation, wood burner are present elsewhere soon enough

why sunflower before cooking? could ferment rice or something here?

cooking needs cabbage and mushroom, but mushroom on different lines!

glorius storage would seem unneeded now?

mostly like the next part till library.

just confused by:
=> florist is about fibre here? berries seem rare issue, more commonly lacking brambles..
=> why irrigation at this point? leaky bath and lido are earlier?
(not all maps need either at this point though)

not sure about banana. seems unneeded.

thoughts on big farmhouse (usually my first science goal) - new players might not be aware it can harvest any crop or how much more efficient it is and extending to ziplines and all!

maybe even good to hint again at how important advanced cooking is (like pumpkin crisps, oil)

also kinda miss the very unique zipline feature with tower upgrades, extreme speed and reach. might seem more intuitive by that point, but still more complex than folktails given balloons, scavengers and all?

=> might fit with mining needs to add rope maker and scavenger to tell about advanced zipline options?

to put some random ideas reading the chart 🙂

[cloud flax]

This is to prioritise them, not building them. Since they can work without workers. Point where it tells that there are buildings that build without workers

[cloud flax]

For science mostly. I thought of rice too but I thought sunflower would make more sense as it takes more time and is more sensitive to droughts, so gives reason to use irrigation lodge.

[cloud flax]

I swapped the kimchi and braised cabbages so now it would make more sense. Introduces harvesting brambles early on as well

[cloud flax]

Mostly for library use... Library soaks up berries and kimchi. And there's no way to grow berries. But yes, in the task I have put it to grow both berries and fibers so the go through both

If zip lines are made from mechanics lodge, I can add a branch for ziplines from there

[cloud flax]

But will add this in description for the large farmhouse. That's for sure a nice point

[radiant arch]

actually sensible.. also need plenty for fibre..
maybe hint at leaky bath and irrigation means around here too? should have had first drought warning by now i wonder?
not sure it fits any need in the busy era of science and blueprints? (given that advanced irrigation is kinda expensive)

[cloud flax]

Maybe rather than asking to build it, I can just ask them to place the irrigation lodge? Just so they know the mechanics of it

And move it after surviving the first drought

[radiant arch]

or a leaky bath?

cheap and no lodge?

[cloud flax]

Yeah either of them works. But leaky bath is waaay to water consuming right

[radiant arch]

but it looks nice haha

[cloud flax]

I haven't used it honestly. But coool. I'll change from rather building it to just placing it. If they don't want to have it, they can just delete it :D

I'll add another info text once screwpress gets built as it makes sunflower oil which can be used for cooking various dishes

[radiant arch]

not sure about aquatic plants or if it could confuse some how it is planted by land farmers..
since sake is important early on (injury) might be nice to add some? ferment-sake-line?

not sure it's duplicating and too much though

[cloud flax]

I can ask them to grow both sunflower and rice then maybe and they will have rice balls and sake themselves

Or the sake line can be initiated on a injury. But I feel it might be bit too much?

[radiant arch]

hmm still never made a rice ball haha

[cloud flax]

They are forgotten source when other foods are eaten up. Since raw rice is present, you can whip up rice balls in emergency

It becomes life saver a lot of times early game for sure

[radiant arch]

it's rather inefficient food though and needs plenty river.. nah.. will skip on them 🙂

[cloud flax]

Btw was there any particular reason why the medical beds are science locked? They are simple tents... Shouldn't require science to set them up... Most tarp covered buildings(log gnawing station, primitive paper mill, ironworks) are unlocked by def, shouldn't these be too. Just a thought

Or maybe reduce the science to just 10 so it's like sodtlocked after science as people figure out what diseases are like and how to treat them but it's not too costly to treat them

[woeful sun]

I'd guess the tent is not the issue, it's the treatments

without the science, they're just regular beds

[radiant arch]

would assume it's the "while you suffer" part haha

[cloud flax]

hahaha trueee

[shell fiber]

I think i wild indeed guide the player towards ziplines, specifically to show how it affect work ranges

[cloud flax]

i have made some modifications. will see where i can add the ziplines too

[livid zephyr]

biggest thing I missed from the base game are sluices. I get why you dont want them for this faction, but perhaps there could be a small compromise?

Had the idea last night while finishing things up, maybe an "upgrade" to the floodgate dam pieces where you can configure it to open and close to set heights based off of maybe just season, or bad water percentages.

have it locked away until late game, cost some silly amount of science, like 10k, and require a processor, robotics controller, and metal blocks or something

then you also mentioned wanting an onsen? yesterday. happened around the time i built myself a hot nuclear press, which just looks like it should be sized up to fit in with the clockwork garden stuff imo, but could also maybe be used as an upgrade platform for said onsen? already has the nuclear part taken care of for the onsen, and would keep it locked away until late game for sure too, and force people to want to use the big press more

[radiant arch]

automation mod allows much of this easily already (season triggers). for smaller divertion there's a pump lodge and the cannons that can be set to only move clean / dirt water.

[livid zephyr]

ya know... that was one of the few things i didnt actually build...

i just assumed it was a cheeky little power generator more or less, didnt even thing that it might have filtration capabilities

[radiant arch]

it's super weak anyway and efficiency scales with water purity so.. it will virtually stop extracting around 10% content anyway..
but can extract tiny amounts from mixed water for water crops or bathing or wonder for example or as alternative to irrigation tower.
very rare i used any of them tbh.. used it more for fun / alternative to fluid dumps.

[livid zephyr]

ah...not really ideal for main water diversions then... and need power

[shell fiber]

The Leaky bath is really trash, pointing the player to it would be misleading I think 🤔

Speaking of which, did I even carry it to 1.0 ?

[livid zephyr]

no

though now that im looking at those menus again, the small aquifer pump was crashing the game when it was conpleing for me the other day

[shell fiber]

Actually got the tutorial I would have skipped over rice entirely, or at least until it becomes necessary for blueprints 🤔

[radiant arch]

really used it often as drought resistant shower

and for early irrigation when needing to limit beaver homes..

surely not efficient, but nicely closed a gap for me (espeically on smaller maps)

[cloud flax]

should i add cannons after contamination repelent recepie in irrigation tower

and i think i can add ziplines after seamstress lodge, since its mostly fibers>ropes>ziplines and fibers are main thing for seamstress lodge too

can add artists lodge as dependency

[livid zephyr]

decided to bling up my discrict center and EMS

[shell fiber]

Hmm... I guess there is reasonable usage cases but it's consuming a lot of water 🤔

[naive tide]

congrats! these whitepaws are a bit much for my brain to handle ngl

[cloud flax]

Hopefully with the tutorial, it will be a bit more manageable 🙂

[cloud flax]

after all the changes this is how it looks like now

[still frigate]

Some of these might need alternate suggestions.

Say you are on an evil map like one of mine. There is almost no place for early farming here, and much of what is here wont last for long. You need PRF for farming. But until you can make it? Mushrooms suddenly become an EXCELLENT survival strategy.

Since this is only my first run through this new map, I went ahead and spawned in a stream gauge so I can look at contamination levels. The two water pumps were build on blue water. At this moment (cycle 1, day 4), it is up to 52% contamination and rising. I have no idea how high it will go yet, but I expect to lose a lot of that small chunk of farmable/berry land.

Although, to be fair, beginners should stay away from my maps. 😛

Took me to day 7, but I was able to get my beavers up to a river bath!

[still frigate]

And by day 26 (cycle 2, day 7), my beavers have reached the -great- farmland and are harvesting berries.

[still frigate]

**How to be mean: ** Make a small bomb that will destroy one of the important water sources feeding the player's lands.

[shell fiber]

i believe that's why they came up with the "begginner" and "unconventionnal" mark for maps, because the tutorial would not work on unconventionnal ones 🤔

[still frigate]

/laughs

[shell fiber]

good morning everyone btw 😊

[shell fiber]

there's something i'm missing here, where did you find that "day5" trigger ?

[cloud flax]

Oh yeah, asked in the #🤖mod-creators . You can set your custom triggers but will have to actually code it....

#🤖mod-creators message

[shell fiber]

oh

i don't think we need to go that far

plus, people have roughtly ten days before beavers get too dirty to work

[woeful sun]

Yea, there are existing n-cycles achievement, not sure about tutorial triggers though

just SurvivedFirstDroughtTrigger, SurvivedFirstBadtideTrigger, and MissingDamTrigger (which triggers at the end of cycle 3 if no dams/floodgate/sluice/valve?) is built)

You'd need to create a new one that triggers on CycleDayStarted

[shell fiber]

nah it's fine 🤔

right now i'm fusing the billboard mod into the main faction mod

[woeful sun]

why? Is it because it's not really used outside of it?

[shell fiber]

because i would need it in the tutorial anyway, and maintaining 2 mods is more trouble than one

especially since the faction spec now calls for collections and not individual items it's really easy to add more things.
for example the logstairs mod has the assets, and makes collections for the WP, FT, IT, EP etc, then the whitepaws just call the whole collection and that's it

different topic, but am i the only one with this "tooltip" thing permanently displayed ?

[still frigate]

I get it too but not the same place.

3rd version of the map. Did some fancy stuff with overhangs and added in some space for vertical farming. Also adjusted the main power waterway to two-wide because WhitePaws low end waterwheel just sucks. 😛 (8 horsepower?!)

As it was there was just not reasonable space. I spent too much time trying to wrangle water that my people were starving and I had no more (accessible & irrigatable) places for food.

IMO, this looks a little cooler and should be a lot more playable. I just have to remember to unlock the thin housing and block one of those damned bad water pipes before the first bad time and it wipes out all the starting area berries. 😛

[still frigate]

My "tooltip" shows over Luke's DEV button.

Also, the modified map, starting areas, before the beavers get ahold of it.

[woeful sun]

also seen in #🤖mod-creators

[still frigate]

Crap. I was gonna reset the water so the coming badwater can surprise the player... or not. 😛

Okay one more edit, -then- a 3rd new game. /laughs

Isn't this much less scary? 😛

[woeful sun]

something similar is also mentioned at #🐛bugs message

[cloud flax]

looks all good and welcoming on the first glance :P

[shell fiber]

quick question !
do people like / use the giant pillar bridge thing and ring plateform ? because i never really did, just figured it might be necessary to build the aqueducts etc

also i've been itching for a while to make the giant pillar have a ladder on one side so beavers can just climb up on it and call it a day

those

okay, now that i look at them again, they're pretty cool

or at least, they work seamlessly

also, wasn't there an odd bug causing the long squewer platform to vanish in rare circumstances ?

[cloud flax]

I do use the ring platforms to create a base and then build decorations over them

But a ladder to create them would be super helpful but will it affect the giant platforms?

[still frigate]

The bridge would be so much more usable if it came in different lengths. Just like the viaduct pieces do. sometimes those poles are only 2 squares apart when making viaducts.

This is what I end up using:

[shell fiber]

Only one hundred text entries to recheck 😊

[shell fiber]

hmm... should platforms require ropes ? 🤔

[shell fiber]

hmm... it's slightly weird visually, but i'm fairly happy with that 🤔

noice

path gets blocked by platforms

[shell fiber]

meeeeeeeeeh

[radiant arch]

cutout-steps? either just fake as part of texture or as bumps using depth map? (or whatever that was called^^)

actually like the first three at the bottom. match nicely with the logs somehow

hmm.. this would occupy the tile with the ladder??
also how to go from this to those platforms? would they adapt?

[shell fiber]

that's also an option, but i have made the giant log twist 30° from top to bottom so that they line up effortlessly

so if i just do carved up step, i think it won't look good

(it's kind of a hack to make the log look less hexagonal while it absolutely is)

that's actually not too bad 🤔

but that leaves a lot of questions, what happens to the metal rings etc ?

[cloud flax]

How bout having a door at bottom and door anywhere the connect to paths?

Usually these large trees dohave hallow trunks

[shell fiber]

hmm... i thought about that, but that doesn't feel right to me

the idea that the trunk would be hollow

the point is that it's a massive beam, at least for me

[shell fiber]

clearly the notches look better 🤔
but it's a pain to do

[cloud flax]

How would they look stacked up though... Will it allign esp with rope

[shell fiber]

the rope would align easy

well there's no debate i think, the notches look just so much better

it's also not that hard to do

just... tedious

[west yarrow]

Maybe a larger platform like 5x5?

[cloud flax]

Mega platform exists :P

[livid zephyr]

Ngl those are 2 of the few things I didn't build in my run recently. At least unlocked them, but never saw a need for them. Used ladder to get up to build the ducting

[shell fiber]

It is done, my liege 🫡

[shell fiber]

yeah, i'm not surprised

also i made the up/down movement cost 0.3 so that builder have no isse going up, in case Z-distance is taken into account
edit : it does, but you can reach 30 high without help

grumpf... now this darn thing of course calls for some sort of trapdoor thingie 😓

whelp, it's just fine 🙂

[radiant arch]

pretty perfect!

[cloud flax]

Oh my god!!! Makes me super happy!!

How is the behaviour with mega platforms? And you still keeping that platform and bridge segment?

[shell fiber]

they seem to be buiild normally, not sure they will be able to jump onto it and walk around though 🤔

nope

which... seems fine to me ?

although... they probably should be able to jump sideways on it 🤔

[radiant arch]

mostly for it to not confuse players? side-way-hatch-platform for pillars? 😉
edit actually might be fine to bring people to still build the ladders to access clockwork farms, not use the pillars as 'real' ladders

[livid zephyr]

I also didn't feel a need to build ducts until really late on the map I was on. But after seeing the platforms and liking the idea of bridges spanning between them, would definitely think about it in the future

[shell fiber]

it's a bit tacky for now, but i'll adjust it 😊

[livid zephyr]

Though, wouldn't mind the ability to build water wheels in the ducting too. But that's probably too hopeful

[radiant arch]

oh right.. can't anymore as the sideway bridge not fits close enough? could do that before..

easily got 5-7k extra from the abyss reactor just from a few wheels..

[shell fiber]

Ah, good point 🤔

Should be possible

I'll think about it tomorrow

[livid zephyr]

Could probably build the wheels. Didn't actually try, but pretty sure I tried placing something on the sides and it wasn't letting me iirc, but was weekish ago and a once off and didn't go back to the idea. So details might be mixed up slightly

[shell fiber]

The large ones can be build in the channel, but the support is the issue

[radiant arch]

yeah, just tried.. it's gotten somewhat more difficult now

[radiant arch]

still works - can 'go around' the pillars or go above technically

[shell fiber]

not a personnal attack of course, but i am forever distressed that people keep doing that 🥲

but unfortunately, this seems to be the most efficient solution

[shell fiber]

so those bridges things are indeed the best solution 🤔

[woeful sun]

What should they do instead? Is the intention for them to build the deadend segment?

[shell fiber]

made a small upgrade to that thing

[shell fiber]

in my head, people would be building something like that

also, this works now 🙂

[shell fiber]

ah, FFS

the spinngin of the axles is awkward

[shell fiber]

and that is now fixed too

[cloud flax]

This makes so much more sense!!

I always forget there's that bridge segment too for a gap

[shell fiber]

and lastly, now you can put side platforms on the giant log bridge, which gives access to the walkable part

and then you'll be able to figure out connections in the angles whichever way you like

[cloud flax]

Okay this already feels and looks so much better!!!

[cloud flax]

New update is in! Hopefully it doesn't break stuff much 🙏🙏🙏

[shell fiber]

indeed

we'll see

[shell fiber]

well of course now the prefab viewer is broken 🙄

[shrewd horizon]

Is this a very difficult bug to restore for this faction?

[radiant arch]

it means he can't use the tool to make changes. it not has any effect on game itself

or well, he can use most, just not see the visual part of buildings and such while working on them

[shell fiber]

yeah, that's just mildly annoying

[shell fiber]

would people be upset if i changed the water outflow to be like this ?

(assuming i make it a little bit more convenient to place the right aqueduct pieces just under it )

[cloud flax]

I think this might feel harder to work with since will have to capture 2 corners perfectly. The previous one gave a bit more flexibility on which exit you wanna take or even make 2 aquaducts.

But I won't mind even if you change

[shell fiber]

hmm... true

i think this would be better

maybe I should have made my aqueduct 3-wide 😅

[cloud flax]

Yepp but now it looks a bit boring compared to the first one 🫣🫣

[shell fiber]

yeah 😑

oh well, whatever

[cloud flax]

1 wide exit might work maybe?

[shell fiber]

yeah but either way it doesn't really line up well with the aqueducts

[cloud flax]

And have something in the corner to break monotonous

Am trying to remember why I wanted 3 wide aquaducts cuz I did want 3 wide aquaducts at one point

Maybe it was only cuz of how to line it up

But it might be too big a hassle and then then large water wheels won't look best on them....

[radiant arch]

might work without any walls to puzzle anyone not told the secret lapan ways 🙂

[radiant arch]

certainly would never have figured this one out by myself - which is sad, it looks really cool

[shell fiber]

since the new version i'm having this crash :ArgumentException: No type found for key WellbeingTrackerSpec Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.BlueprintDeserializer+<DeserializeSpecs>d__13.MoveNext () (at <fdb8aae73a31402faec6f76254719e59>:0) Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.Blueprint.CopySpecs (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable`1[T] specsToCopy, Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.ComponentSpec specToIgnore, Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.ComponentSpec specToAdd) (at <fdb8aae73a31402faec6f76254719e59>:0) Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.Blueprint..ctor (System.String name, System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable`1[T] specs, System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T] children) (at <fdb8aae73a31402faec6f76254719e59>:0) Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.BlueprintDeserializer.DeserializeBlueprint (Timberborn.SerializationSystem.SerializedObject serializedObject, System.Boolean safe, System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T] nestedBlueprints, System.String name) (at <fdb8aae73a31402faec6f76254719e59>:0) Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.BlueprintDeserializer.DeserializeRoot (Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.BlueprintFileBundle blueprintFileBundle, System.Boolean safe) (at <fdb8aae73a31402faec6f76254719e59>:0) (wrapper dynamic-method) MonoMod.Utils.DynamicMethodDefinition.Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.BlueprintDeserializer.DeserializeUnsafe_Patch1(Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.BlueprintDeserializer,Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.BlueprintFileBundle) Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.SpecService.Deserialize (Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.BlueprintFileBundle blueprintFileBundle) (at <fdb8aae73a31402faec6f76254719e59>:0) Timberborn.BlueprintSystem.SpecService+<>c__DisplayClass8_0.<Load>b__0 () (at <fdb8aae73a31402faec6f76254719e59>:0) System.Lazy`1[T].ViaFactory (System.Threading.LazyThreadSafetyMode mode) (at <1eb9db207454431c84a47bcd81e79c37>:0) [...]

is doesn't happen when starting the folktails, and i already removed bobingabout script patch, anychance it comes from your scripts ?

[radiant arch]

might. will look at it in a bit

[shell fiber]

ah, it still happens without your scripts

[radiant arch]

was just starting to get puzzled as my code not triggers such a spec..

somehow my timberborn not even starts up with just whitepaws mods on..
something about a IModifiableEntityBadge missing from assemblies..

what even is a WellbeingTrackerSpec?? 🤔

[shell fiber]

it's something that is in the bots and maybe in the beavers

[shell fiber]

uploading now

right now Bobingabout's script pack is broken

but the mod can work without

[shell fiber]

Well now I kind of want to make the large water wheels connect down too 🤔

[shell fiber]

Tell me how you like the new changes 😉👍

[valid salmon]

say is there a way to eventually close off badwater sources? or are the dam drain houses the only way to separate mixed water?

[radiant arch]

there's nuclear reactors that fit on top? (not used them recently so not sure they cut it off fully when inactive)

other options involve:

• closing it off
• diverting stream (might include aqueducts, pumps/ cannons, dams)
• draining it using bad water pumps

for separating.. there's badwater pumps that are much more efficient, but require hauling (i.e. fluid dump or some other outlet / production chains)
otherwise only the drain house or cannons (same weak)

worth noting that manned houses scale with well-being (can go up to 5x base speed)

[west yarrow]

oh.. yeah XD

[shell fiber]

holy cow, how comes i never figured that out before 😓

libreoffice has a tool to swap colors within an image

i've been relying on some crappy website for years 🤪

[shell fiber]

which one do you guys prefer for the "maimed" icon

the right one is too violent maybe ?

adjusted the nose color

eheh~~ look what we got here !

[shell fiber]

a little bit too bright, but easily fixable with vertexpaint

[cloud flax]

Left

[shell fiber]

much better

aalchemist / dystillery beaver

no idea where the green outline comes from, it's stronger the further away you get

of course a hat for the beavers working in the library / ENS

[radiant arch]

looks perfect to hide snacks in and as an emergency snack itself!

[shell fiber]

not entirely sure what to give to the scavenger beavers 🤔

[radiant arch]

difficult.. some kind of adventurer hat?

or safety-first: a safari hat / reinforced?

something like this french pith helmet?

personally would feel much safer with one when gnawing bits out of scrap metal towers many times higher than me

[heavy lodge]

Maybe a rusty metallic looking hat ?

[radiant arch]

rusty version of this?

[shell fiber]

that would be nice, but i can't find a 3D model

[heavy lodge]

Will be ...., hilarious, but, why not ? 😄

[radiant arch]

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/safari-hat-00fa05ae10834647a8bf00c5a5a899a1 ? CC-attribute licensed?

[heavy lodge]

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/hat-of-the-cavalier-c0a97984f12942b4a23e3fb3d5cc0c9d

[radiant arch]

that one is really nice too!

[shell fiber]

oooh, way to many faces 🤔

[heavy lodge]

you can and must remove the feathers .

Nothing to do or the game will explode

[shell fiber]

that took waaay to long to adjust

But looks nice

(it's for miners)

oh, the witch hat is fixed 🙂

also, beavers working at flags no longer get a fancy hat, that is only for professionnals 🧐

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber It's crashing.

[naive tide]

does that all interfere with the Hats mod?

[nova crescent]

Same happened with only your mods enabled.

[shell fiber]

pretty sure that mod didn't work in the first place 🤔

[shell fiber]

your texture pack is probably not up to date

yep : ```- Lapantouflemagics Texture Pack (v1.2.0)

should be 1.3.0

[naive tide]

Yea it did

RCE even used it

[nova crescent]

This is the latest. @shell fiber

Same in mod.io

[shell fiber]

well that's a stupid mistake to make

i'll upload it asap

[shell fiber]

he used it on the vanilla faction, not with mine

i think it worked to get the hard hats but that's about it

you may need to force steam to update it

[naive tide]

Might be all that's needed considering all the other hats of the folks in the faction

[shell fiber]

dammit, there's something wrong with the dam drain house

the water output blocking the voxel above make it impractical to connect the house on top 🤔

I finished the french translation btw 😊

and therefore, also the review of all text entries

okay, enough for today

[shrewd horizon]

Is it correct to all the 4 element beneath must be the universal power shafts?

[radiant arch]

only one of them is. can only see it before build

if it not changed with 1.0..

[shrewd horizon]

Aaaah now i see

[radiant arch]

never really understood why this had to be so well hidden.. 🙃

[shrewd horizon]

I'm blind to a lot of things in all types of games...🙈 😂

And maybe I would have seen it if I hadn't built it using dev mode

Only for testing of course

[radiant arch]

no worry, had to ask too haha

[shell fiber]

For obvious reasons my dear 🧐
Usually the mechanical controller is standing (2-tall) but but this one it would hinder the moving parts, so it has to be put horizontally.

And because the power shaft arriving on top would also block the moving parts, the only solution is to connect by underneath 🧐

That is thus perfectly logical 😊

[valid salmon]

so given my situation i think the drain house is my best bet as the source im working with has both types mixed at the very beginning of its route.

I've got the bypass streams etc constructed but am not sure what the quantities would be. Like how many cubes of water does the source make vs the badwater one, how many cubes does each house drain

basically my badwater source is located like this. so idk if this will also seal off the good water or will it flood everywhere or what

[shell fiber]

That will seal off the bad water source, the clean water ones should remain unaffected since this building is not watertight

[shell fiber]

i'm working on the tutorial, and right now my issue is that pretty much all tech path require the screwpress because even Tar needs it for oil, and i want to declutter that. so my idea it to change the tar reciepe to not consume oil, but sunflower seeds directly.

does anyone see a reason why i shouldn't do that ? that would allow to bypass de screpress and go direclty to the alchemist for tar, which is required by some mid-tech buildings 🤔

[shell fiber]

i'm changing the farm upgrades so they cost less wood and planks, but cost 4~8 scaffoldings, just to clarify what going the architect route does for you (platforms, better farming) as opposed to the mechanics lodge (water pump upgrades, opens more industry)

while the alchemist alone can give you bigger dams, but leads to dynamite with the screwpress

that makes 3 much better defined 'paths' to follow after completing the library

[cloud flax]

If you do do this, then I would request you to put a few scaffolding in the broken kart. Broken kart gives like 2 gears which allows for building pump upgrade + pass through lodge without getting to the mechanics lodge

This way the person can still build atleast a couple of upgrades before they have to start churning the gears and scaffolding (and they do take alot of time...)

[ivory fractal]

In my experience, beavers are like a flock of hungry grasshoppers and eat every bit of sunflower seeds. It doesn't matter how many sunflowers I grow, the seeds just aren't there and it's almost useless to store them. In contrast, beavers do not drink sunflower oil and it is possible to create some stock to make tar.
But the last time I played water beavers was in the U6 version, I don't know if the beavers are still hungry. If so, I would be in favor of preserving sunflower oil recipe.

[cloud flax]

Yeah, tar will become a lot harder if it's sun flower seeds...

[shell fiber]

ah, yes, forgot to say that, but yes, i have put 3 inside

[cloud flax]

And any way you would need alchemist for brain boosting salts for mech and archi lodge recipes

But I can see where you are coming from for the 3 tracks being easier to follow for tutorial structure

Maybe have all three start after the screw press?
Not sure but maybe sunflower oil could be used as a lubricant while making gears and scaffolding?

[shell fiber]

in the end you'll need to do all of them of course

[shell fiber]

no i don't really want to force that

i just changed again the farm upgrades to cost only 2 scaffoldings (down from 4) because the kart only drop 3

but maybe i want it to drop 4 actually

that also give incentive to unlock the platforms, since the scaffolding is always refunded

[cloud flax]

It's just at that point, sunflower is used in science+food and since cabbage don't give well being they tended to eat sunflower seeds. (Don't remember if there was any bonus for sunflower seeds though anymore.)

I guess it's just gonna force us to plant more sunflowers and give players more suffering hehehehe

[ivory fractal]

How about two recipes for making tar?
Less efficient with sunflower seeds and more efficient with sunflower oil?

[shell fiber]

i'm trying to get this thing more easy to handle, yet keep it not too ugly 🤔

[shell fiber]

well in the end that really doesn't change anythign

[cloud flax]

Btw why does tar require sunflower oil in the first place...
My original thought for tar recipe could have been something like that is made by boiling and reducing the dark bad water and get the sticky tar...

[shell fiber]

nah, if i start doing that every building will end up with 25 reciepes

[cloud flax]

Looks cool! Could it have 2 outlets?? Door on center and outlets on both sides? Having sort of a U shaped building

Actually nvm, it might be pain to set up the down stream depth for each one seperately...

But could have been interesting way of diverting managing water in 2 seperate pools using same building

[shell fiber]

that's also not supported i believe 🤔

and yeah, it would be difficult to connect

i also have to visually reseve the voxel above the outlet otherwise the damn thing goes crazy

[cloud flax]

What if you make it stair shaped... Like the pipe is 3long, middle is 2 and door is 1 long?

`#

###`

Something like that when looked from top. Or will it be too awkward a building

[shell fiber]

most watertight buildings are 2 block ini depth, which allows to stack them easily

plus, don't forget about the living space for those beavers 🧐

😅

[radiant arch]

if you for example take cereal bars you get around 6 times sunflower need filled per seed. (i forgot the exact number, but around that)
so as your beavers advance in cooking they tend to use less and less of the original ingredients. also they always eat better foods firsts.

[sullen cape]

I used it once for long bridge building instead of stinky scaffolding stacks 😛
Once I could afford giant longs

Oh I'm really slow 😂

[sullen cape]

I made it work in my U5 save, you just have to have the outlets staggered
And can't have it too tall otherwise you have to put them on top of each other

[shell fiber]

whelp, spend most of the day fighting the tutorial, something is wrong and i don't know what it is

Sequence contains no matching element
if only this trash would tell me what it can't find...

[naive tide]

where is it crashing on?

like what specific part?

[woeful sun]

If you post the stack trace, I can try and add something to More Mod Logs that'll tell you what it's looking for

A minimal reproduction would help too

[shell fiber]

Oh okay, I'll try to send you something on Monday

[woeful sun]

So it's failing to find a TemplateSpec with a TemplateName matching one of the BuildingTutorialStepSpec.TemplateNames

[shell fiber]

Yep

But at the moment I don't see which one it's looking for and not finding 😓

[woeful sun]

so knowing which step, and/or which names would be helpful?

[shell fiber]

If course I could try to brute force it by loading all FT buildings and them removing until I find the culprit

[shell fiber]

Yes

Not knowing which step is failing is the issue 😓

Of which prefab it's looking for

[woeful sun]

would just the blueprint name be good enough?

I'm trying to see where the best place to inject help would be

ahh, I might be able to do both

[woeful sun]

Try this and see if it produces anything helpful

haha, they're all called Step 1, hrmmm

What's calling that code? Is it TutorialStageService.GetSteps and TutorialStageService.GetStage?

This shows the stage name instead of the step name

[shell fiber]

Ah that's what i feared, there was some oddities when overwriting, I was wondering if internally the stages got decomposed or whatnot, deleting a step in the tutorial is not enough, I have to overwrite it 😓

[shell fiber]

I don't have the PC on the weekend but I'll try on Monday 👍
Thanks !

[woeful sun]

I've also uploaded it to Steam and mod.io.

[valid salmon]

is this the kind of alignment id go for if i wanted to put the upgrade module?

[cloud flax]

Push the forester back one more tile

@valid salmon ^
And if that doesn't work, just swap their position and see but forester will still remain 1 tile back, aligning with the slanted roof

[livid zephyr]

Though, depending on what add on you build, you might have trouble getting in. Hauler and builder upgrades enter off the right side of triangle buildings. Ziplines use the tower building entrance

[nova crescent]

"LabeledEntitySpec": {
"DisplayNameLocKey": "Lapantouflemagic.Statue_Pointer.DisplayName",
"DescriptionLocKey": "Lapantouflemagic.Statue_Pointer.Description",
"FlavorDescriptionLocKey": "Lapantouflemagic.Statue_Pointer.FlavorDescription",
"Icon": "sprites/Whitepaws Sprites/Buildings/Statue_Pointer"
},
"RangedEffectBuildingSpec": {
"EffectRadius": 3
},
"ContinuousEffectBuildingSpec": {
"Effects": [
{
"NeedId": "SevereInjury",
"PointsPerHour": -0.1,
"SatisfyToMaxValue": false
},
{
"NeedId": "MajorBurns",
"PointsPerHour": -0.1,
"SatisfyToMaxValue": false
},
{
"NeedId": "SevereDisease",
"PointsPerHour": -0.1,
"SatisfyToMaxValue": false
}
]
},

@shell fiber Is this intentional? The statue gives injuries. If so, the name is same as of the pointer statue.

[radiant arch]

that's the statue of pain and should be dev-mode only/ hidden?
(as i understood it was accidentally visible recently and should be fixed in next update)

[nova crescent]

Yup thought so. I build like 15-20 of those then suddenly all of my bevears are injured and refused to work. 😂😂

[shell fiber]

i thought I had fixed it but the changes did not register because the nodding tools are buggy, I refixed it recently but didn't upload it yet

[shell fiber]

okay, i found the issue thanks to you 🙂

it was looking for the 1x1 roof, which didn't have a tool in the toolbar because i had forgot to create the toolgroup for roofs 😓

speaking of which... i'm really itching to do somethign better with those damn things

also i should be making a bit more small decorations

[shell fiber]

okay, i can load the tutorial now 🙂

[shell fiber]

hmm... i'm also itching to do something about the basic balm... i don't like the fact that the alchemist is required to make the basic balm, which is only used for burns, while the other injuries are just treated with random everyday junk.

ideally i would want either an all-purpose medication that we pretend is used differently based on what med bed it goes in or three different low-grade medications made in the alchemist 🤔

for burns, we'd want an oil-based (sunflowerseeds) balm thing, most likely.
for injuries, i guess something based on pine resin would be believable 🤔
and for disease, a bramble flower potion or whatnot seems good to me

[radiant arch]

say, tar couldn't be made by wood burner or something?
splitting medicines not really would make any difference for alchemist use imho. but i kinda always struggled with the early demand for tar and it blocking alchemist doing other things.
and your change would kinda push med beds later now and conflict a little with the tar needs?
tar making doesn't really need any fancy equipment, or does it? just a pot and wood and slow heat?

[shell fiber]

hmm... yeah, in prinicple it could be prepared on an open fire, but i think you need to block out the oxygen 🤔

[cloud flax]

Can we please have something for lighting underground tunnels please! a glowing fluid lamp maybe.... would make underground constructions looks super nicee

[shell fiber]

but the intent has always been to make you want to have more alchemists 😅

[shell fiber]

i'll write it down for now 🙂

[cloud flax]

yayyyyyyy dankeeee

ideas for roof: a 3x3 roof for pit and tower lodge which has a 1x1 viewing deck in it maybe? lemme see if i can find an image reference

cuz rn we only have DC that can go atop the pit ladder lodges to make it look complete

[delicate yarrow]

Anyone else reported a crash related to the BotNamer? Crashes as soon as I try to start a new game

TypeLoadException: VTable setup of type Bobingabout.CharacterCustomizer.BotNamer failed

[shell fiber]

i think bobingabout's naming script is broken for now

i would have assume he has it fixed by now, try to force update it maybe ?

[shell fiber]

not gonna lie, realism be damned i don't want to have to deal with 3 different medications either

[cloud flax]

something like this but square (just the top part)

[shell fiber]

although... now that buildings can consume several elements...

[delicate yarrow]

Did try unsubscribing from all mods, uninstalled them and then resubscribed to whitepaws. Doesn't seem to have solved the issue. Guess I'll have to wait.

[cloud flax]

lapan really wanting to reduce our suffering!!!!???

[shell fiber]

try without the bobingabout script pack ? even if the game says it's required.
that said, if you're trying to play one of the "fuse everything" factions from zxuiji... i have no idea how they work

[shell fiber]

it's more a matter of excessive clutter in the menus etc. plus i need to think where to store the items, some reciepe use basic balm as input etc...

[cloud flax]

if you are thinking of the menu, the google sheet i have shared with you has a sheet on how things can be regrouped and found easily. could use that as a ref if you like :D

but if you are indeed moving a lot from sunflower oil to seeds for lots of recipes, i would suggest to increase the yield of sunflowers a tad bit maybe

[shell fiber]

not really, only 2 reciepes, and the conversion rate has always been 2 seeds -> 1 oil

i just changed the basic balm to cost this :

and the beds now all take basic balm, in addition to their specific item (bramble flower / pineresin/sunflowerseed)

so that makes a clear path "alchemist -> early medication"

[delicate yarrow]

No, only the whitepaws faction. That's the only mod installed other than dependencies. I get a separate, tutorial-based, error if I try without the script pack. It does seem there was a fix posted on the 11th of Feb for it and my version matches the latest. I'll try see if I can figure out.

[shell fiber]

i didn't really have time to look at it sorry 😓
is it about making the groups more convenient ? or is it about using moddable tool group's ability to have a single item in sevral toolgroups (because that would mess up the tutorial)

[shell fiber]

ah, right, yeah crap

well the tutorial is being made, i should push a fix for this mess asap

[cloud flax]

first one, making groups more convenient. No duplicates in it. maybe the tree nursery might be doubled can remove it from one place

removed industries and advanced industries and made it into wood working, and metal works. shifted some stuff around where you are likely to use them/find them

[shell fiber]

hmm... actually it's pretty good 🤔 seems better that the utter chaos that my menus have become over time 😅

i would need to figure out which of those groups don't exist yet though 🤔

although some of them don't really seem all that necessary to me, like grav batteries or water wheels 🤔

i'll push one update now to fix the tutorial issues at least

[cloud flax]

you can change stuff as you like. I just grouped them so that people dont forget that there are further upgrades to them when they build the crappy stuff, else it might get lost in long menus 😅

[shell fiber]

hmm...good point

[delicate yarrow]

Thanks for this. Seems to run ok without the script pack so far 🙂

[naive tide]

Wouldn't tar actually be made as a byproduct of oil?

in other words tar could be pushed back to later game

this would mean that oils from crops would become necessary

(just like how it is irl, tar is a byproduct of crude oil)

[radiant arch]

that's how it is currently made: alchemist uses (sunflower) oil to make tar
historically it can be extracted from resin rich wood too, if it is slow-burned with little oxygen

likely would mess up balancing a lot to change though and alchemists are cool, so .. what works works 🙂

might be cool actually.. using tons of clay and dirt to drain tiny amounts of tar from wood 🤔
given logs are likely in more demand even than sunflower seeds at this point haha

[cloud flax]

My vote would still go for making tar from bad water...boil off like 10 bad water to get 1 tar or something

Would make small bad water pump more useful in mid game

But even the other recipes are okay and makes sense

[shell fiber]

For me that makes about as much sense as making dynamite out of it like the vanilla factions, I don't see what could possibly be contained in polluted water that would result in tar 🧐

Tomorrow I'll try reworking the tool groups based on @cloud flax suggestions

And see if I can mass-generate the tutorial files

Although I'm not entirely done with the tutorial's architecture

For now it's somewhat straightforward up to the library being completed, with a few branches here and there.

Then it splits into four branches like "for more food, follow this tutorial" or "to develop chemistry (and blow stuff up) follow this one"

[cloud flax]

food+ziplines will follow the Architects lodge, Water+power will follow mechanics lodge, Chemistry is alchemist, what is the 4th one?

factory for more industries?

[cloud flax]

its just that the residue left after boiling off bad water should feel very similar to tar... concentrated essence of bad water will be very dark sticky similar to tar. Atleast that's what's going on in my mind. 😅

[still frigate]

Dumb question, especially considering how much I have played this, but can brambles reproduce diagonally?

[cloud flax]

I believe so...

It shouldn't take that long to test :P

[still frigate]

true... but I was focued at that moment on removing a bunch and blocking new growth. 😛

Now that I have had my fun in Sintopia's second playtest and it is over, I am back to beavering around full-time. 😛

[still frigate]

Okay, I am set to test this.

[cloud flax]

1 eternity later....

[still frigate]

They mature in 1 day

[cloud flax]

I hope the ever blossom does not spread XD

[still frigate]

It is a level down.

A nice and tight location for the test.

cycle 6, day 8 and all the seedlings are fully grown. Now to wait a few days (or less).

cycle 6, day 13 and no diagonal spread.

[cloud flax]

Yeah so very unlikely that they spread diagonally.... That's sad

[still frigate]

Sad, but good to know.

[cloud flax]

But I think that's the normal spread behaviour

[woeful sun]

yea, that's why if you max spread then

#.#.#.
.#.#.#
#.#.#.
.#.#.#
#.#.#.
.#.#.#

isn't the best way (because spread happens into the same blocks)

[still frigate]

Yep. That is how I cut on my bramble ranches.

When the cutting mod worked it had a setting to do that too.

[woeful sun]

yea

[still frigate]

I though the dam drain house was just being redesigned (which was looking cool). I didn't realize it was totally removed (or renamed and hiding somewhere I can't find it). 🙁

[shell fiber]

oh, right, the fourth one is how to fend off badwater

[shell fiber]

oh shit

i was debugging so i forgot to put it back

[still frigate]

/laughs
It happens.

[shell fiber]

but wait, i only devlocked the previous one

[still frigate]

Ah. I wasn't playing in dev mode. Probably why I didn't find it.

FYI -

[radiant arch]

they can't spread diagonally
and given how quickly they spread i actually use this scheme for harvesting

#..#..#..#
.#..#..#..
..#..#..#.
#..#..#..#

which gives each harvestable . two brambles (#) to seed from going for 66% of area harvestable.
i never tested if this actually makes it more efficient, given it would need 2 seeds per plant and day 🤔
would be fun to test which gives most with districts?

[still frigate]

Interesting. Is this with normal wild brambles or domesticated wild?

[radiant arch]

either. depending on how many i need i replant domesticated or let them grow on path..

[still frigate]

The map I am testing just failed the third test run with WaterPaws.

Well... failed is a bit harsh.

It became unbelievably painful.

On cycle 13, the main badwater source that has been making life hell gets blown up. Now you have all this wodnerful clean water, except for bad tides. That devastates brain mushrooms, which takes our PRF production, science production, and so much more.

I wanted this map to be sneaky hard. I think I have achieved that.

What are good ways to cap the ladder of P&L houses that are going to end up underwater so they don't flood?

Deep underwater.

There is a good chance that both of these will end up underwater.

[radiant arch]

can you still build dams on top?
big farmer works, but can flood itself
tree nursery would work too, but would assume it also floods?

also: wouldn't your middle tower flood from below?

[still frigate]

I have never had them flood from below, but that doesn't mean they can't.

[radiant arch]

was curious if they could. they got the hole there..

[still frigate]

All right... I can fix that.

And dams on top are a no.

[radiant arch]

too bad

there's dirt blocks and 'use-whatever-building' to fence it off and cover with platform above stairs.. but building more p&l lodges likely is more efficient..

if only roofs were waterproof..

preferably a roof with a waterproof door to exit from there haha

[still frigate]

These will keep water from coming up.

And they can be accessed without exposing the beavers to what will surely be a lot of mixed contaminated water.

[cloud flax]

Damn now a waterproof glass roof would as well be cool decoration to see from underwater. Idea for roof^
@shell fiber

[still frigate]

If I were -that- far, I'd aqueduct that badwater spout to something more useful. 😛

But yeah, that would look so cool.

[shell fiber]

was there a good reason for the large (and overpowered) bad water pump to NOT cost one CWController ? I remember i intended to do that change but apparently i hadn't yet 🤔

i think i'm going to dissolve the "village industries" group and put the flags back in their original categories, what do you all think ?

[still frigate]

I'm used to it there, but that isn't a great reason not to change.

[shell fiber]

so the handicrafter etc would just fall in the general "village" tab

[shell fiber]

well i'm nuking the existing groups to something that makes more sense (mostly @cloud flax 's rework)

[still frigate]

Ah. Then I shall steele myself for change. 😛

[radiant arch]

can't see a reason not to move it post-ENS with requiring one tbh

[shell fiber]

okay, i probably modified a hundred things witout any test in betwee, what could possibly go wrong ?

[cloud flax]

i kept all flage together so that at very beginning the players dosent have to hunt for all flags in different different places. But seperating them might as well give player more idea on where different things are so that as well works!

[cloud flax]

add them to Grand dam too then :P

[shell fiber]

i'll try to load it as is for now, then we'll ee

[shell fiber]

ah, no, this one is blueprinted

[cloud flax]

anyway its not that OP given it houses 12 beavers and dosent get affected by wellbeing bonus like deep water pumps

GMO labs can block 6x6 tiles in same pop, grand dam only does 5x5

(GMO is the best water tight building)

[shell fiber]

its main purpose if you ask me is to block 25 voxels worth of water 😉

ah

hmm

well, it's less complicated to get to, maybe ?

[cloud flax]

yeahhh and its a super cool looking building!

[radiant arch]

so .. i tried and do a quick test how much 4 beavers can harvest from a 5x9 brambles field with different pattern..
and turns out .. 27 till they die of hunger and thirst yay^^

only useful indicator was that the lower pattern only got cleared 3 deep, while the upper checkerboard got 5 deep.
so technically planting them as sparsely as possible might give greater yield

..#..
#...#
..#..

would appear to be really good (almost 40% more harvestable plants per area than checkerboard)

well, not like it really was any need.. 1 beaver harvests about 3 plants per day? .. might scale up to 12 with wellbeing? no idea.. but is surprisingly less than i expected..
like 1 (early) to 4 (late game) plants per beaver and space around?? that's all they manage??

[cloud flax]

Normal checkerboard pattern has 1:1 non cut:cut ratio,
This seems to have 1:4 non cut to cut ratio so should be like 300% more area no?

[cloud flax]

That's why you need the bramble shredder :P
2 barns+ logging loft XD

[radiant arch]

yeah, that could deal with a 12x12 field 🤔

[radiant arch]

no idea. checkerboard is about 50-55% depending on edges
diamond pattern is 11/15 here (73%), technically up to 15/19 i guess if..
80% would be max possible (1:4).

[shell fiber]

things seem mosly in order for now...

but now i want to remake the icons of soooooo many buildings 😑

[cloud flax]

Doing it for the groups? Could probably use some vanilla ones too i guess

[shell fiber]

not necessarily, but i had to rework a bunch of them

for example you made one tool be water and badwater, but the original icon was only water

but i have mostly all parts i need laying around in the organised chaos that are my folders

[shell fiber]

new roof

(instead of the other roofs)

other option

4-long variant

[cloud flax]

Can these be placed on paths too??? They would look soo cool with beavers walking under?

[cloud flax]

Especially this!

[shell fiber]

basically the idea is that i want to push people to build them above paths, rather than just slapping one here and there

[cloud flax]

Ayeeeeeee

[stone pond]

lol

nice to see a viable non-cheese one

[shell fiber]

btw they have a range of zero, so they only work under themselves

i even went the extra mile and added tiny lights

[cloud flax]

Yesssssss! Now all my tunnels gonna be two tall so I can have lighted walkway!!

[shell fiber]

uuuuh... one bird two stones i guess 😅
or the opposite 😊

[cloud flax]

As long as it feeds :P

[short tiger]

Am I right that there are no dams or floodgates in this mod, so you are limited to only whole numbers for water heights?

[radiant arch]

there is dams - 0,65m, upgradable to 1.65m.
there's a 'adjustable dam' like floodgate, sciencelocked and a little later, that can cover 0-2m height (great with 'automation' mod)

and the giant dam thing that works as a pump and houses legions. 5x5m wall haha