Water Beaver Overhaul

[radiant arch]

to make the wave

[cloud flax]

ooooh i think i get what you are saying

[radiant arch]

how deep it clears depends pretty much on flow strength

[cloud flax]

i just didnt notice cuz that dam is like 4-6 tiles deep...

[radiant arch]

yeah, or you had a straigth river

[rapid trench]

sounds like poor planning on the player's part to me, my setups aim to have low steady state water speed, which avoids the problem (e.g. use water cannons with whitepaws)

[cloud flax]

damm, i got an area which has like 20+ water strength.... how am i gonna get steady state :')

[radiant arch]

i love single water wheels going to 2k haha

(or 5k. my best so far)

[cloud flax]

please tell me it waas the large water wheel an not the normal one

[radiant arch]

a large one, yeah

[rapid trench]

reroute most to the edge of the map, and place a couple cannons to get some controlled amount you need away

[radiant arch]

the medium was like 1.5k or so

[cloud flax]

but stillllll!!!

[radiant arch]

with 20+ you can split evenly. a 6-wide river might do fine. or split into 2+3+2 or something

[cloud flax]

just feels like wasted power potential to me :P

[radiant arch]

oh, and recent learning: take power first, pumps after.. had a bad time with the wrong order 😅

[rapid trench]

power can be setup in the 20+ stream, but then you don't care about floodgates there anyway since power will be off in a draught in any case

but tbh I don't see how you're not getting enough power from nuclear + abyssal, unless your colony is 20k+ population or something else absurd like that, in which case congratulations for having a great pc

[radiant arch]

it's the time before that. on a very small map

[cloud flax]

okay i severely underestimated it.... its 45 water strength in this reservoir.... 18 from left near dam, 4 from middle, rest from the right part

this is my bad tide diversion system XD
During droughts, the 3 floodgates are at height 1 which perfectly allows water to just flow over the flood gate but not spill over the big dams. during bad tide those 3 get down to 0 and divert all water to the channel at top

[radiant arch]

so you use the outflow limit per voxel to limit source strength with floodgates?

[cloud flax]

am not capping any source. am capping how much can go out of the reservoir from the top channel using voxel limits

[radiant arch]

ah, okay

[rapid trench]

wait, so at badtide you drain the reservoir to 0? that sounds like so much wasted perfectly good water to me T_T why not enclose the sources and make badwater tunnel drainage so that the main reservoir stays full?

[cloud flax]

how will i channel and isolate the bad water? my pop will go through the roof trying to dam and control it individually

and i got another Big ass reservoir

Looks like a simple tree farm doesnt it??

[radiant arch]

if i not need the flow power i usually pressure-seal sources off so they can't contaminated any much

[cloud flax]

just few layer below it :P

[rapid trench]

fine I guess, looking at the sources I think they could be enclosed with something like 30-50 population worth of buildings though, if you're willing to use some strategically placed dirt blocks and levies

[rapid trench]

similar, except I leave two voxel outflows, closed with floodgates, from the pressurised source(s), one for clear water, and one for badwater

[cloud flax]

there are 3 different places where water comes in from thats why creating seperate channel for each will be pretty hard. especially since flood gate wont be enough to allow for flow from either side

how do you even pressurise the source??

[rapid trench]

closed from all sides so that there is no escape for the water

[radiant arch]

seal it into a channel and put a floodgate in front

[cloud flax]

distribution of the sources. and they are not even on same levels

[rapid trench]

middle one is trivial, just 2 pass-through lodges on top, 6 pop, the rest will need some creativity, but it's not too bad

[cloud flax]

and how to seall fromtop?

[radiant arch]

that's a nice map to force some creative ways to deal with it

[radiant arch]

dirt or buildings

[cloud flax]

can we build over water sources??

[rapid trench]

I remember pressurizing the ones at the bottom of beaverome craters, I think they were worse, though I was not playing whitepaws then

[rapid trench]

lodges on platforms (sideways screw platforms)

[radiant arch]

sure, if it's supported from the sides

i usually spam a few dozen dirt blocks before abyss reactor

[rapid trench]

can't be bothered to wait on dirt with the 1000 cost tbh, so I use it sparingly

[radiant arch]

i love using a couple of drills

[rapid trench]

pass-through lodges give you 6 horizontal blocks for 3 pop, good enough for me

[radiant arch]

i'm too obsessed with playing minimal population (from playing too small maps usually)

[rapid trench]

fair, I haven't tried small maps with whitepaws yet

[cloud flax]

used this to close off the original outflow channel. looks nice!!!

[rapid trench]

is diorama doable?

[cloud flax]

i try and do that with large maps XD

[radiant arch]

it sucks for need for micromanaging and super super slow play

[cloud flax]

but yeah feel like blocking off a source completely just feels like a bit of cheating

[radiant arch]

but with resent rebalancing the shortage on water is less struggle i suspect

[cloud flax]

couple of tall bamboos and gian saqoias and the map is done XD

[radiant arch]

did finish it on U6 adding a whole layer of platforms and settlement on top of the map

[radiant arch]

had like 12 sequoias next to the sources on that small mountain

[rapid trench]

can you build those levies in between dirt blocks, or is it build-order dependent?

[cloud flax]

build order dependent

cuz the dirt block above it is only supported by levies

[radiant arch]

oh and i replaced all berries with bamboo as soon as i got the GMO^^ and brambles with grapes

[rapid trench]

ignoring that (e.g. suppose there is dirt behind the wall to support your weird dirt shape), can you build a levee under dirt is what I'm wondering

[radiant arch]

can do as long as there's free space on the one with the entry pointing to

[cloud flax]

i dont think i wanna stress myself trying to play WB on small maps... i dont think i'll have a proper colony even if i have dev mode on XD

[rapid trench]

I might try it when I run out of all other ideas, I think, but that's not for a while yet

haven't even done a hard difficulty whitepaws run, let alone ultrahard

[cloud flax]

works!

[radiant arch]

diorama

[cloud flax]

oooooh i remember this colony!!!

[radiant arch]

top view with wonder

had to use a water cannon on the abyss outflow to build a pool for the wonder

[cloud flax]

did you use the only abyss for power and not abyss factory??

[radiant arch]

not sure i had to use quadruple terrain bounds to allow to plant those big trees at that height

[radiant arch]

there's only that one abyss. but made over 5k power from water wheels before that

there's 2 or 3 hidden behind the bamboo

and 1 next to the badwater source

[cloud flax]

am asking how did you manage hydrogen and other abyss outputs??

rather than the power

[radiant arch]

micromanaging..

only one gas extractor

[cloud flax]

can you place power module over that??

[radiant arch]

waiting on the foundry to power up again..

[radiant arch]

the reactor fits above the abyss, you can still have all 6 modules with it, yeah

[cloud flax]

OMG!!! i didnt know that

i was like either use it for factories or for power....

[radiant arch]

that would be super mean on maps with only one abyss!

it's bad enough already tbh

sadly those platform hacks no longer work. more space requirement for hydroponics. and they force ground-contact now

[cloud flax]

i know! but its water beavers... i had already expected that. but lapan the great can still be bit lenient 🙏

[rapid trench]

wait, what? I'm pretty sure I built hydroponics on platforms, did I somehow break it to do that?

[radiant arch]

the way i did no longer works as platforms can't go beyond 2 from the support

and giant pillars force ground contact - in this U6 game i could put them on platforms still

as hydroponics are 5x5 it is difficult to put them on compact towers other than using mega platforms, isn't it?

[rapid trench]

oh, yes, I understand, though my plan would've been to just have multiple layers of mega-platforms, I think, each layer basically doubling the map area

[radiant arch]

if you can endure the wait for the material sure

[rapid trench]

I guess I'll have to try and see if I can, probably not my next playthrough tho 😉

[cloud flax]

gonna test how many i need to support 1000 beavers

adding another cabbage and rice for now

[radiant arch]

playing with additional water sources for my maps - drought resistance, always clean, always bad water -> so many new options to play with 🙂

[radiant arch]

at least each 0.6 plants of cabbage and sunflower per head, 0.4 rice, 0.33 peas, 0.2 pumpkin and so on.. (likely more each)

half the space need in hydroponics

oh, appears you cover around 600 beavers with bananas from a single greenhouse if using parfait

[cloud flax]

in process of designing a stadium! (and as well provide well being boost to those lazy beavers)

tbh lemonade stand would have made for a really nice team standby area!

[cloud flax]

and the design is done!!!

now just need to actually make it without using the dev mode >_<!!!

[stiff flint]

Some of the "good looks" from the Treasure Island map.... I tried not to obliterate the contours of the map. Everything is stable but I think i'm pulling water faster than the map provides it so the bad water levels off shore are rising slightly every cycle.

[wary panther]

This aqueduct bridge segment is disappearing when I load from a save:

Here's the save - it was built when I saved this

[crisp parcel]

very cool idea. thx for sharing

[radiant arch]

@shell fiber the issue with the map reader wasn't with power shafts - was just me having an old version of the map reader mod 🙂

[radiant arch]

ok.. just tested it.. your map reader mod is likely broken with any faction but whitepaws it seems.. tested the old version.. sorry!

[cloud flax]

and the terraforming begins.....

[shell fiber]

it's basically a on/off system, if your target is 0.65 it stops water until a height of 0.7, then lets all the water flow though as if it wasn't there, then once (if) the level drops under 0.6, it becomes watertight again.

i actually wanted to do as you said, but alas, no bueno.

also it can't be just a thin wall, because the entire voxel becomes watertight in all directions, hence the current design.

[eternal tulip]

I dont know the code behind it and how it can apply to a object but the log slope mod has similar visual for logs stacked., how about something along this line as a design that's a full block design??

[shell fiber]

i don't see what's so wrong with the existing design tbh 🤔

[rapid trench]

I don't fully understand what exact change is being suggested here, but I very much like how they work and look now; personally I think only maybe having a 2nd tier upgrade for 2.65 height would be nice, but besides that they're very well thought-out imo

[radiant arch]

In case you could enable LeafCoats with the map reader

this time using the current version^^

only bamboo and lemons are added from plants as the others not match the faction. lemonade stand is using FT version as that works fine

[shell fiber]

i really don't have time to rest, but i'll trust you 🙂

i've been spending a little bit too much time on a certain monstruosity

but... it moves now 🙂

[radiant arch]

awesome!

[shell fiber]

not gonna lie, i'm pretty happy about it 🙂

[shell fiber]

now that i think about it, such an advanced cooking machine would not require...erm... "combustible" 😅

[radiant arch]

wouldn't surprise me to find a beaver fell into it at times

[shell fiber]

fell ? no, that would be a very foolish accident.
the walkway is made specifically to prevent small kids and stupid adults from falling in.

but the claws don't have eyes 😇

[wary panther]

Looking into this some more. Player.log has a line

Loaded BlockObject Aqueduct_Bridge(Clone) at (73, 169, 10) is not supported by terrain physics. Deleting it.
But... it's supported on buildings on both ends (Badwater pump on one side, Elbow Aqueduct segment on the other. And that seems to be the intent (it doesn't even allow it to be built if I try to add a platform supporting the middle span, which would defeat it being a bridge anyway)

So I'm not sure what I'm missing about what kind of support that segment wants...

[cloud flax]

I believe it needs a aquaduct segments on both ends

[radiant arch]

on steam a commenter said the current timbercommons version breaks whitepaws

[cloud flax]

its been fixed

[radiant arch]

not sure this is about wrong timberborn version or something related to whitepaws

[cloud flax]

ask them to resubscribe to timbercommons to force update the mod

[radiant arch]

so was more about timbercommons patching for a change in timberborn?

[cloud flax]

was sad when my timberborn didnt work last night. forced me to actually focus on work

[cloud flax]

yep

[cloud flax]

planning something evil underground 😈

[woeful sun]

btw, #1283367971280126087 will show you when mods are out-of-date and allow you to trigger their update.

[cloud flax]

Deep underground beaver jail with beaver torture chamber as all jailed beavers see the horrors of beaver washing machine! just walking down the staircase looking at the cursed contraption will put the fear of god in your mind!

[cloud flax]

114 well being with over 1000 beavers!!

and reaches 115!

[cloud flax]

Am wondering if rpg games could lead to painted beaver tails. Each pattern determines their role! Just a food for thought

[stiff lily]

Adding Clockwork Controllers to the drills was cruel Makes the Tree Nursery harder to get to

[wary panther]

You can also just trade salt for dirt with the Ironteeth and 6 trips will get you to the tree nursery

if you want to do the tree nursery before the ENS

[heavy spruce]

Just how do you build the small aquifer pump? It looks like it needs to go on something?

[heavy spruce]

Ive had the same issue, I removed them after adjusting my aquiduct

The water source was producing bad water during bad tides, and not working during droughts for me.
Was the patch already added to the latest WB update?

If so, then maybe it is clashing with Moddable Weather?

The power output is the squares 3/4 of the way up the abyssal nuclear reactor. It took me a long time to find them too...
A note in the description to say "power is output (by the water outlet) at the height of the top of the green ball", would be nice

Had that issue too with harvesting bananas, all the trees were full of bananas, but none were being harvested...
Marked them for cutting, placed a harvester and a gatherer, marked the land for cutting, then put the greenhouse

It started working after a patch, Thanks!

Has delux stew been depreciated? There's still the need for the deluxe stew in wellbeing, and the hand of soup can store it, but the recipe to make it is missing...

Similarly, dance hall and shrub?

[radiant arch]

on top of two triangle buildings. the pipe must reach one tile below their base.

[radiant arch]

it's not out yet. it works perfectly fine with moddable weather (=no effect from that on the abyss)

[radiant arch]

deluxe stew is (temporarily?) made by ENS. looked like lapan is still working on some rebalancing here and adding more.

there's no dance hall or shrubs, no

[heavy spruce]

Great, thanks!

[heavy spruce]

thanks

[heavy spruce]

What an odd building to make it, i assume the mecha cooker of DOOOOOOOOOM that lapan is working on will produce it in future

How difficult would it be to make the water cannon the fast travel method for the beavers?
Put the water cannon building on the superfertilizing tower bath, increasing its size to a 6x6, then shoot the beavers to the flag, which has to be in the pool of another water cannon fast travel building.

[radiant arch]

could also make wells a random teleporter haha

[heavy spruce]

found a spot

Thanks

[heavy spruce]

I see how it works now, it creates a watersource at the end of the spout!
Great, needed irrigation there for the tappers, just made a 3x3 watering hole under the building.
Will it keep it full? As in, will the end of the nozzle work like a source block and keep the water from flowing off the map?

[radiant arch]

the nozzle shouldn't be water blocking, no.
currently it will not contaminate with bad tides i believe. however it will run dry during drought. not sure if lapan will change this however

[heavy spruce]

Thanks, next time I'll build it somewhere I can better control the water flow. Just wanted to test it out

[dusk compass]

I liked the ENS making the deluxe stew, it's like it's the pinnacle of culinary education

Though it would be fun if the delux stew needed a "cordon bleu" certification from the ENS to build the building that can cook anything including the delux stew.

Call it "Chez Van Damme"

[cloud flax]

sadly no clue about the reference.... what is it?? sounds fancy

[cloud flax]

what happens when you delete it??

[cloud flax]

time for some beaver chess?

had to break my brain to figure out the pieces

gonna make quite a few variants!!

[heavy spruce]

nothing, the water stops flowing out from the spout, i re worked it to feed a resovior ontop of a bad water pump

has something happened to the badwater pumps by the way?
Since the last small upgrade theyve stopped bringing in any badwater.
Theres power connected to the plug by the doorway, but the %dosent increase & my bad water stocks only decrease
Maybe its a sidefect of 2.2k beavers and 1k bots…

[cloud flax]

did you update the mod to latest version?

it should fix that cuz last version it had broke

[heavy spruce]

I update it whenever it says theres an update, was the update very recent?

if it was the September 1st update, then I did.

[cloud flax]

hmmm weird... power input is in right place right? also are you talking bout the small bad water pump or the big bad water pump(mechanised one)?

[heavy spruce]

The mechanised one

[cloud flax]

it needs the power input

on the left side

[heavy spruce]

Power shouldnt be an issue

[cloud flax]

does it connect there??

[heavy spruce]

yes

[cloud flax]

the connection was at back iirc

[heavy spruce]

Theres two power connection points, 1 at the front and 1 at the back

[cloud flax]

damn, never noticed that. does it show it has power input?

[cloud flax]

like in building, is it consuming power

[heavy spruce]

200/200

All my badwater pumps, plugged in back or front, aren't producing

[cloud flax]

demolish and rebuild maybe... not sure cuz all of mine are working and only difference is all of mine are connected on back

[heavy spruce]

I only have the mechanical ones

I just built it 5 mins ago

[heavy spruce]

This was the same spot

Pluged in at the back, there's a full tile of badwater above it that is all 100% contaminated

and always 0% progress

[cloud flax]

Try priorities by haulers and see once

If not I'll unsubscribe and resubscribe the mod once and restart the game

Cuz this exact issue lapan fixed just last update

[heavy spruce]

I have over 600 hauler bots, a large portion of which are always on standby...

[heavy spruce]

Ok ill do that, thanks!

[heavy spruce]

Just a few hauler standby areas for 666 hauler bots...

[radiant arch]

my game currently has 2 bots - but lacking material is still waiting for the standby area 🙂

hmm.. do bots actually offer any benefit over beaver haulers this late in game?

[cloud flax]

mine is hidden underground. i could make more but just dont see the need

[cloud flax]

very high carrying capacity

[radiant arch]

yeah, but do they use it any much at all?

[cloud flax]

150 kg....

[radiant arch]

i know. versus 44 or so regular

but most times i see them haul 10 or 20 at once

can't really think of much outside foundry and big sawmill that has this kind of output really?

[cloud flax]

emptying resources, moving materials from the drills and storages they speed it up

atleast imo. and they work 24 7

[cloud flax]

The Beaver chess my seem fun but for the underground researchers, its a deadly way to resolve disputes... its said that the gameboard is dyed red not from bad water contamination but the blood of the unskilled of underworld

[radiant arch]

WIP but playing with a well for map making (please ignore the temporary model)

it's like a water source, but irrigation only 🙂

(it will spill a little during monsoon^^, drain actual water otherwise - most during drought)
(irrigation range does vary depending on season or mods much like source strength would!)

next step would be adding contamination

and i kinda would like to make it a secret passageway - like each well on the map is connected to each other, but at shorter distance than walking would
if i can figure out how to code that part..

[cloud flax]

so you do really want a well teleportation XD

[radiant arch]

not really related to water beavers, but kinda water related so just posting it here^^

[cloud flax]

but that looks cool!!!

[radiant arch]

if possible ^^

[woeful sun]

The badwater has to go above 1-tile and start to cover the building for it to work.

Can you show the same screenshot at layer 50

[heavy spruce]

I removed all mods, then reinstalled & that fixed it.
But layer 50 has terrain blocks forming a U around the inlet of the badwater pump.
The primitive dam upgrade keeps the necessary depth above the inlet on the pump. A waterfall feeds into that pool just about where the inlet is.

[cloud flax]

Btw what was the movement speed bonus for ziplines?

[radiant arch]

20x it seems

config says 0.05 cable cost (from 0.4 with folktails ~ 2.5x walking speed)

walking speed bonus might apply on top

so a beaver with 2.0 walking speed would technically go at 40 zipline tiles per 'step' -> bots should be around this fast i guess?

but not 100% certain bonus is applied on ziplines. only know they ignore water effects.

[cloud flax]

has airship placement rules been modified?? am not sure whats obstructing here

ooooh it cannot be placed on ground!!!

[cloud flax]

getting this error @shell fiber

anyone else facing the issue? 👀

[radiant arch]

there's something broken with a workshop / manufactory?

also still many missing keys:

The given key Lapantouflemagic.DoubleRopestairs_Reverse.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.8WayCornerOverhang.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.8WayCornerOverhang.Description was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Long.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Long.Description was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Short.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Short.Description was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.PowerShaft_Stackable_HorizontalT.Whitepaws.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Building.PowerShaftUpward.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Building.PowerShaftDownward.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.Lapantouflemagic.BalloonLandingPad.DisplayName.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key NaturalResource.Brambles.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key NaturalResource.WildBrambles.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key NaturalResource.Everblossom.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key NaturalResource.Giantbamboo.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key NaturalResource.Pine.Whitepaws.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key NaturalResource.ChestnutTree.Whitepaws.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key NaturalResource.GiantSequoia.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key NaturalResource.BananaTree.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.

might be a recipe definition either is missing or broken

might only happen if a certain building is present or a certain recipe is selected

like did you have the ENS set to make deluxe stew?

that's the one i would suspect the most (given it worked all on lapans side)

@cloud flax might be you can 'fix' this by loading with old version, setting ENS to something not deluxe stew and test again with new version?

[cloud flax]

Right. Will do that after my snacks!

Would need to do it using modio version right?

[heavy spruce]

Ok, maybe don't put the badwater pump under the waterfall, and just .75 of a block above it might not be enough

[cloud flax]

maaaan even them not built, it still looks sooooo cool!!!

[radiant arch]

glad it worked out

[cloud flax]

thanks for helping out man!!

[cloud flax]

finally got built in the 99th cycle!

and another reservoir expansion.... nothing is gonna go wrong

[cloud flax]

Big Boom!

[heavy spruce]

When I try to load my 4.2k beaver, 666bot map, im getting an error;

v0.7.10.8-1ec3a71-sw
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T].get_Length () (at <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0)
System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T].IndexOf (T item) (at <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0)
System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T].Contains (T item) (at <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0)
Timberborn.Workshops.Manufactory+<>c__DisplayClass56_0.<Load>b__1 (Timberborn.Workshops.RecipeSpec recipe) (at <ccbb737bc1434b8ab1730a6a52c3d25f>:0)
System.Linq.ImmutableArrayExtensions.SingleOrDefault[T] (System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T] immutableArray, System.Func`2[T,TResult] predicate) (at <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0)
Timberborn.Workshops.Manufactory.Load (Timberborn.WorldPersistence.IEntityLoader entityLoader) (at <ccbb737bc1434b8ab1730a6a52c3d25f>:0)
Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadEntity (Timberborn.WorldPersistence.InstantiatedSerializedEntity serializedEntity) (at <8e8736bcd8e7410aa61daf77599fb210>:0)
Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadEntities (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable`1[T] instantiatedSerializedEntities) (at <8e8736bcd8e7410aa61daf77599fb210>:0)
Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadNonSingletons () (at <8e8736bcd8e7410aa61daf77599fb210>:0)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadNonSingletons () (at <37714495c7b34fbf87491c89893567c4>:0)
(wrapper dynamic-method) MonoMod.Utils.DynamicMethodDefinition.Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadAll_Patch1(Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleUnityAdapter.Start () (at <37714495c7b34fbf87491c89893567c4>:0)

MapResizer: Map size changed: (78, 78, 90) - (78, 78, 100)
The given key Lapantouflemagic.SevereInjury.DeathMessage was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.MechanicalComputerFancyBlueprint.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.MechanicalComputerFancyBlueprint.PluralDisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
Number of threads: 7
Shader 'Standard': fallback shader 'VertexLit' not found
Too many atlases loaded (2)! This should not happen. Exit game to print usages.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.DoubleRopestairs_Reverse.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.8WayCornerOverhang.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.8WayCornerOverhang.Description was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Long.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Long.Description was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Short.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Short.Description was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.PowerShaft_Stackable_HorizontalT.Whitepaws.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Building.PowerShaftUpward.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Building.PowerShaftDownward.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.Lapantouflemagic.BalloonLandingPad.DisplayName.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
Shader 'Standard': fallback shader 'VertexLit' not found
Shader 'Standard': fallback shader 'VertexLit' not found
First uncaught exception at 2025-09-13 11:33:43Z

System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T].get_Length () (at <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0)
System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T].IndexOf (T item) (at <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0)
System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T].Contains (T item) (at <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0)
Timberborn.Workshops.Manufactory+<>c__DisplayClass56_0.<Load>b__1 (Timberborn.Workshops.RecipeSpec recipe) (at <ccbb737bc1434b8ab1730a6a52c3d25f>:0)
System.Linq.ImmutableArrayExtensions.SingleOrDefault[T] (System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray`1[T] immutableArray, System.Func`2[T,TResult] predicate) (at <6bb08d37de124a778ca2954872cc5e3e>:0)
Timberborn.Workshops.Manufactory.Load (Timberborn.WorldPersistence.IEntityLoader entityLoader) (at <ccbb737bc1434b8ab1730a6a52c3d25f>:0)
Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadEntity (Timberborn.WorldPersistence.InstantiatedSerializedEntity serializedEntity) (at <8e8736bcd8e7410aa61daf77599fb210>:0)
Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadEntities (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable`1[T] instantiatedSerializedEntities) (at <8e8736bcd8e7410aa61daf77599fb210>:0)
Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadNonSingletons () (at <8e8736bcd8e7410aa61daf77599fb210>:0)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadNonSingletons () (at <37714495c7b34fbf87491c89893567c4>:0)
(wrapper dynamic-method) MonoMod.Utils.DynamicMethodDefinition.Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadAll_Patch1(Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleUnityAdapter.Start () (at <37714495c7b34fbf87491c89893567c4>:0)```

[heavy spruce]

How did you get the latest update working?

[cloud flax]

@heavy spruce

[woeful sun]

Also logs are way more readable if you enclosed them in ```

```
like this
```
produces:

like this

[shell fiber]

goddammit

i don't have time to mod until sunday

do many people have this bug ?

[radiant arch]

likely anyone who had an ENS set to produce deluxe stew

wouldn't assume many did

[shell fiber]

okay, just rolled back steam update

i'll deal with this tomorrow

[woeful sun]

I have a vague thought that the devs had put something in to fix this sort of error (specifically when recipes got removed from manufactories).

oh, wait this is something that More Mod Logs would tell you,

recipe.BackwardCompatibleIds is null

So as long as you define BackwardCompatibleIds (as empty) for all the ENS recipies, then it should be able to load safely.

[cloud flax]

Is this mod compatible with WB? Might add it for easy future reporting

[heavy spruce]

thanks

[woeful sun]

It should be. I don't know of any reason why it wouldn't.

[dusk compass]

FWIW I definitely had an ENS on deluxe stew - once you're done with the science points and you don't have enough production capacity for processors to be consumed the stew's the only sensible option.

IMO tweak the recipe to "deluxe stew leftovers" and make them consume deluxe stew, everyone's gonna switch off.

[stiff lily]

I take back my previous feelings about rope production in the early/mid game potentially being a bit harsh. Especially with ziplines now being in the mod, it means you have to make conscious decisions about what to spend your resources on and not just slap it all together. I think it’s fine as is

[shell fiber]

pushing a new update now, should fix the issue with the crash due to removing an active reciepe

[shell fiber]

loaded !

feel free to crash-test it 🙂

[plain kite]

Just loaded into the game . No problem so far .

The clockwork Kitchen does not require power ?

[heavy spruce]

Wooo, I can open it!

[heavy spruce]

It requires power, but I don't see the plug...

[heavy spruce]

Ah a hint on where the power plugs in!

Power plugs in under the building, underneath that barrel looking thing

two tiles across and two tiles up

[radiant arch]

water beavers: masters of hiding the plugs!

[shell fiber]

the power shaft extension mod is also quite conveninent for that😉

[heavy spruce]

Are the comic books Tin Tin Or Asterix & Obelix?

[shell fiber]

probably the smurfs 😅

[heavy spruce]

😱

[stiff lily]

I'm getting a weird issue with the ENS trying to research the Bachelors of Agronomy. The workers keep bringing sawdust in, but then taking it straight out. I've tried pausing every other building that's consuming sawdust, tried prioritising by haulers, but they keep taking it out of storage to the ENS then straight back to storage... What am I meant to do?

[shell fiber]

ah, fuck's sake i should have seen that one comming 😣
okay, urgent update time it is

[stiff lily]

I've tried marking all the storages as "empty" and they still refuse to bring it in 🙁

Anything I can help with?

[shell fiber]

it's a base game behavior

you can fix your own game easily but you're definitely not the only one with that issue

basically the agronomy bachelor consumes sawdusts, the deprecated reciepe makes sawdust, that makes the game glitch

[stiff lily]

Now I'm even more intrigued 🤣

So the same building can't consume something it also produces?

[shell fiber]

yep, even across different reciepes

hence the copyist / artist shenanigans for blueprints

i'll just make the deprecated reciepe consume one sawdust for nothing rather than make sawdust and that should be good

[stiff lily]

I found where to fix it. Works now

[stiff lily]

The Mechanized Kitchen House says it can function without workers but it doesn't seem to

[shell fiber]

hmm... yes, correct, let me edit that

[astral valve]

Hi, how can I make my lumberjack harvest bananas? I have them planted inside the greenhouse and they're marked for cutting

[shell fiber]

hmm... i still can't remember what was the issue with this damn thing

i'll try to figure it out

[astral valve]

No rush, it's a minor issue tbh

[shell fiber]

i think i have found a solution to the log levees

a slighly better one that the existant

also that will allow me to improve the primitive mine, medium mine and mechanical drills

until now they relied on terrain being a 2D height map, but that is no longer true, and can cause issues.

but the game now let me make bloc occupancy that say "this block must be dirt"

i would need some people to crash test to see if the new log levees can seamlessly replace old ones, of course i'll do my own testing, but just to be sure

[radiant arch]

sounds fun!

basically you want to enforce the tiles behind to be all ground and get rid of those flags?

all mines / drills that 'cheat' will just vanish and that's it basically, isn't it?

[shell fiber]

how do you "cheat" a mine ?

the flags are on dirt, but the dirt is on platforms ?

yes, i think those would vanish

[radiant arch]

having it drill into thin air. currently only the tiles directly below the flag need to be present

mines same: only very few tiles need to be dirt. air is fine for most

[shell fiber]

the 1x1 log levees got replaced just fine

i think the medium mine won't change much though

[radiant arch]

as in only forcing dirt tiles behind the mine part?
actually am really fond of the way it allows tunneling under the fences otherwise rn. makes placements all the easier, or connecting multiple with only one set of stairs/ ladders

[shell fiber]

under the fences should probably be dirt i think 🤔 although i can see what you mean

maybe i'll rework it a little bit to make it more versatile, while at the same time keeping the "buried" aspect🤔

right now i'm just enforcing dirt on the 3 colums immediately behind the mine entrance

maybe i'll make those require actuall wall 🤔

they're not supposed to be wakable anyway

[radiant arch]

sounds nice. personally like it. yet not sure if the whole thing still is kinda confusing

technically there's also the option to just add dynamite + stair costs to the building and make it dig its own hole now, isn't it? (might even use rope ladder or curved ladder to reduce size).

not sure about it being worth the effort to remodel and do the adjustments though. occupations is much easier

[shell fiber]

the problem is that if i don't enforce dirt under the barriers, it very easily becomes a plain cliffside mine, but using ropes is a pleasant idea, like closing up the loop of fences and adding cranes (for decoration maybe)

then wether you access it properly from the top or tunnel in from the side...

hmm

not gonna lie the idea that it would require tunnels to be acessed is nice, but how can i make it work nicely ?🤔

[radiant arch]

that's a big improvement!! no more need to make those perfectly formed walls first!

[shell fiber]

i'll see if i increase the size of the wall necessary or not, like drilling in a 1 thick dirt wall shouldn't work

also, interestingly enough, you can't dynamite a block reserved by the primitive mine 🙂

[fresh torrent]

hi! ive been gone for like a very long time! what have i missed? 😅

[radiant arch]

only minor rebalancing involving anything water?
the wonder? you knew this?
fully new side platforms and overhangs
few new buildings
ropes!! there's ropes now everywhere!
and trade (balloons) became more powerful

also: ziplines! much cooler and more powerful than with folktails

that's about what the late U6 and U7 updates brought i guess

[fresh torrent]

the last thing i remember was the main game getting workshop support on steam and that all i can remember

[radiant arch]

wow. it's a whole new game on top of that i'd assume

[fresh torrent]

is the water beaver overhaul on the steam shop?

[radiant arch]

there's a U7 version you'd want

and a couple of dependencies

[fresh torrent]

what is it called in the steam shop?

[radiant arch]

whitepaws?

[fresh torrent]

okay thank you!

[wary panther]

I have a bit of a swiss-cheese mountain that would definitely mess up, but don't take that as opposition to the idea. As long as you still allow for some level of chaining them together underground, because I thought that was more fun than having them all be open pit excavations.

[wary panther]

I did tend to intentionally line up the connecting tunnels with the fire, though, because that way they were well-lit (gotta keep the grues away). So if it requires soil on that block next to the fire I'll have to rearrange some. But that's fair enoug (though at 1000 dirt/voxel, it mas be best to just fill it back in with ||dev mode|| and then redig the connecting hallways according to the new rules, rather than have the whole surface destroyed 🙂

[wary panther]

Definitely agree that requiring thickness behind the tunnel/drill is reasonable

[woeful sun]

yea, at 3 or 4 blocks would be fine (if not more)

[shell fiber]

that's pretty cool not gonna lie 😊

[shell fiber]

hmm... small issue witht the plan

how acceptable is this ? two log levees seemingly can't share the same dirt block

[radiant arch]

can't share same anchor?

fine for me tbh. same as skewers

[shell fiber]

yeah, i think that wouldn't surprise too many people considering the rest

that also nerfs a bit the levee-dirt-levee stratergy which is not a bad thing

it doesn't affect the contamination barrier functionnality either 🤔

[radiant arch]

i had a weird issue with nav mesh unblocks on side-attachable blocks recently: can you safely destroy a levee that is sole base to something else (like a dirt block on top)?

[shell fiber]

also mines look like that now

[shell fiber]

not sure i see where you're going with that idea 🤔

[rapid trench]

personally I would find it quite confusing unless they had some (graphical or description) indication that they "occupy" that block too, e.g. add another of these "X" mining marks so that they visibly overlap in this case, or shift it more to the center of the edge

[shell fiber]

the mining mark on the floor is to indicate those blocks can't be dynamited

[shell fiber]

i had designed the mark to allow multiple levees to share a dirt block, but seeing that's not an option i'll make it larger

wonder if this one actually is necessary

meh, might as well

i'll restrict the medium mine to have ground mostly around it (pending a redesign, maybe)

with a 3x3x3 cube of dirt required

this one is fine too

[radiant arch]

looks like many will not make the update, being placed too closely or too close to edge of ground 🙂

[shell fiber]

sorry 😣

[radiant arch]

maybe deprecate the old one?

[shell fiber]

hmm...i prefer to avoid keeping deprecated assets 😣

and i... kind of overwrote the old one

which is clearly bad practice to be honest

[radiant arch]

can understand that

[radiant arch]

managed to connect my well portals 🎉

now only need to teach those beavers not to zipline straight through anything between them 🙂

[cloud flax]

Tbh considering the cost of dirt block I feel this strategy would completely die cuz even in late game, I struggle to keep diet flowing and the time and beaver power it takes to build them.
It will force people to use more houses as water diversion and not just as dams.

I personally would want to keep levee functionality as is currently as it allows more versitality still with ample limitations. It's not like it's impossible but still will require ample amount of suffering to build the walls

[radiant arch]

might be you overread this one: the change would allow more flexible levee placement than rn (i.e. in a 1x1 hole)
just it is keeping the limit that you can't add multiple levees to the same dirt block (you can't do so now either i think)

hope i not misunderstood it though

[rapid trench]

you can do that now tho, the levee-dirt-levee is precisely that, you do one column of dirt, 2 high, then levees on both sides, then repeat 3 blocks over, so 2/3 of a wall is levee that way (though I'm not sure how to extend it beyond height 2 without going down with the levee-to-dirt ratio)

[radiant arch]

you need a tile above the dirt block to be empty now, to place levee 'entrance' on, don't you?

[rapid trench]

yes, but only at building time, you can place stuff there later (e.g. another levee)

[radiant arch]

true

just not place a dirt block

they can overlap on it? two levees sharing same 'anchor' dirt?

[rapid trench]

yes, but you can place dirt on a levee

[rapid trench]

yes, gimme a sec to sketch it

I think this currently works (side view), where brown is dirt, orange is levee attached to the dirt on the left, and yellow levee attached to the dirt on the right; the new "levee-reserves-its-dirt" mechanic would break it forcing a one-to-one levee-to-dirt ratio on all levels, so a slight nerf

[radiant arch]

did not know this yet! thanks

[shell fiber]

right now yes

[shell fiber]

hmm... to be honest even killing this strategy entirely would not be something i'd be too upset about, but it will costs probably tens of thousands of dirt to make a small non-house dam.

i won't go out of my way to block it since if people are willing to go through this to NOT play the mod as intended... well i'm not the police 😅

[radiant arch]

oh @shell fiber a question regarding your journey to fix ziplines: was it easy to summarize the fix? like does it need a specific spec or not allow another?
(got the exact same issue with my portal wells now..)

[shell fiber]

you mean beavers falling off ?

[radiant arch]

yep

[shell fiber]

oh, that's pretty easy, at least if my understanding is correct: the zipline anchor MUST be at [X.5;Y.5] the Z coordinate doesn't seem to matter (but still better to avoid inconclusive full values, ie 4.85 is fine, but if you input 5.0 i have no idea what happens.)

so, properly centered in the middle of the voxel

also if the building is both a station and enterable, weird things might happen

you just need to separate the acess point from the zipline nav mesh connection or something

[radiant arch]

thank you!

[shell fiber]

so you made teleportation wells ? 😅 what's that ?

[radiant arch]

i'll show you when it's finished 🙂

[shell fiber]

I kind of wanted to make a stargate at some point but alas, i didn't see how to make it "work". 😅

[rapid trench]

in my case I use it sparingly for performance reasons, I prefer not adding more beavers when I have 1.2k with over 200 jobless, even if the food & water situation allows it, the game can't really run at 7x in that situation on my machine, so I at least want to have the 3x speed

[abstract vector]

It's more engine limitations than hardware limitations at that many beavers and speed

[radiant arch]

is it fully blocking up to that platform?
that's 2x5 up there?

[shell fiber]

yep

[radiant arch]

that's real cool

[shell fiber]

that's what i call an excessive amount of water pumping 😅

[radiant arch]

that's a strength 6 source gone

that's a pretty nice dam tbh

[shell fiber]

thanks to the power of Devmode

[cloud flax]

Now that's what I call a Damnnnnnn!

Increasing the amount of water generated as well?
They are currently much worse than the advanced water pump at late game well being especially the ratio of beaver housing to water generated

[radiant arch]

they produce plenty imho and look at how they now block 5x5 !!

one of them is 0.5 source strength anyway

(~4-5 pumps by end game; well 9 beaver max versus 12 still is extra, but they look cool!)

[rapid trench]

are they? I thought they were 30 water/hour at 12 pop, and advanced ones 4 water/hour at 3 pop, I guess with optimal (infinite line) upgrades it would be 8 water/hour at 3 pop, but that's still almost as good and you never have optimal upgrades; are my numbers off (they're all entirely from memory)?

[cloud flax]

When you take into consideration the working speed bonus from high well being

[rapid trench]

oh, forgot about that, fair

[cloud flax]

But I guess just it's functionality as a dam v/s use of homes as water stopper I guess the extra housing for sure makes senseee

Especially since I can further increase the height by adding the water pumps over it

[rapid trench]

I don't know if that's at all doable, but having two modes for it, one without beavers and one with a single beaver worker, would also apply wellbeing bonus and fix the issue entirely, right?

[cloud flax]

It's fine now that I think about it actually working like a dam and allowing water height upto 5 high

[radiant arch]

well being bonus goes to 4x or more with end game

[cloud flax]

Even if it doesn't work as efficiently as the deep water pumps, just it acting as a 5 high 5 wide dam is really good

[rapid trench]

I know, I forgot to take it into account

[cloud flax]

The best rn would be the GMO lab right? 3x3 with 3 pop

[radiant arch]

it's decently powerful still as a pump. plus it's a bottom-pump even!

[radiant arch]

guess so. foundry can block some too, but not extend upward

the big sawmill

[cloud flax]

Never thought to use foundry as a dam XD

[radiant arch]

isn't that 9x3 for 6 beavers?

[cloud flax]

Or the saw mill

Not sure how many beaver it houses

[woeful sun]

See the "Ziporter" mod

[radiant arch]

mine are less dramatic (sadly)

but of course Luke made it already when i spend literally all week trying to understand ziplines and nav mesh. . . (and he added a ton of extra features too^^)

[shell fiber]

In terms of balancing I'm mostly concerned about the number of beavers per dam wall face unit. The worst being the small lodge with 2 faces for one family, and the best being likely the crate storage house with 6 faces for one family (industrial building excepted)

This one used to be 3x5 = 15 faces for 4 families which was... meh.

Now it's 5x5 = 25 faces for 4 families which seems a bit too strong, maybe 5 families would be good 🤔
although it is a powered building that is quite expensive...

[shell fiber]

Good point, that seems like the best dam building indeed

[rapid trench]

and it's ground-only, so doesn't stack, right? isn't that enough of a limitation?

[prisma merlin]

Hey @shell fiber, your new dam buliding is very cool but I took 10 minutes to understand where I can connect to for power, any way you could make it clearer? Maybe in the description?

Overall your U7 feels a lot more balanced then U6 edition I like it a lot

I still have 2 burning thoughts that I'd like to mention being:
Like in the last update, you can abuse the hand of soup by building it, then pausing it and placing warm storage on it

Secondly, your scrolls are a pain to deal with, especially the artist and the copyist lodges. I don't want to keep scroll storage for every single scroll type. Sometimes I have to break a lodge and all of the scrolls spill out. Also I can easily set and forget a copyist and they can make an obscene amount of scrolls that I don't plan on using.
The ideal solution I can come up with is that you research a concept or a non-consumable scroll that you can reuse instead of dealing with tons of scrolls (not sure you can implement this tho).
The easier solution I would imagine is making a pantry like storage where you can automatically store plenty of different kinds of scrolls.
And as it currently stands, there is almost no way I ever need 25 of the same scroll (maybe I came close with dam blueprints but that's an exception) so you can reduce the capacity of the copyist lodge

So yeah, those are some things that you may want to consider if you have the time and care for.

And finally, this is a wonderful mod, it plays beautifully, merci énormément!

[heavy spruce]

What I did was marked the ground for cutting, then placed greenhouses and planted bananas. If that didnt work I then unmarked and remarked for cutting.

[heavy spruce]

I found a cave when placing my medium mine, the fence was on dirt, and so was the bottom of the buildings, but there were big holes in the walls

[heavy spruce]

I really like building a dirt block with levees on all sides...

[shell fiber]

yes, but then you'll have the "paused" icon permanently, and it's kind of an exploit, play as you like.

[shell fiber]

there's no real way around that since the game doesn't allow duplication, and there is no provision in the game for any sort of item specific research, only this boring science point currency. As for the storage, someone had made a pantry mod but it's broken, and it also didn't solve everything anyway.

the best way to not end up with an excessive amount of scrolls is simply not not put the copyist and artist on the same item, typically you start with the blueprint, fancyfy it, change the artist reciepe, then send it to make 5 copies, then change both manually again to have only 5 fancy blueprints. always let all your blueprints get fancified, there is absolutely no purpose in keeping plain copies. personnally i like to keep 13-17 copies of my blueprints though. I could reduce the amount stored in the copist/artist, but it requires to edit a dozen reciepes 😓

ps : i prefer the researched scroll to not be fancy to prevent it from being shipped to a building site immediately, which also prevents the mechanic/architect from starting a new research and waste resources.

[shell fiber]

and that solved it ? hmm, weird

[shell fiber]

understandable, but some things have to die i'm afraid 😅

[cloud flax]

I have used an obscene amounts of large waterwheel blueprints, zipline blueprints and when mech water pumps required them, those also. I think I had like 50 of them used

But scroll displays for sure are pain. But rn am in the mission not just to fill all scroll storages but also degree storages :P
Done with agronomy. Got 70ish metallurgy, and nuclear phy. The biggest trouble would be pilots license because of the scouting exploration points

Also @shell fiber maybe also require the small clay pot for building the bowl of soup over the hand of soup. Small clay pots aren't really used much early or mid game and Since it looks the same as the clay pots in the mega cooking tent, it would make sense.

[shell fiber]

you can path around the base of giant sequoias now

actually the first 3 levels are visually free even at the sapling stage too

[shell fiber]

well the large bowl is bigger than the wood burner so how would that work ?😅
i was thinking that they would build it and fire it directly on the spot, maybe 🤔

[heavy spruce]

I had a few tries, but after a save and load i noticed bananas were increasing so left it at that. I had also placed flags and buildings for felling and gathering nearby.

[shell fiber]

i could come up with a "giant pot" item or something, but that's a pain to deal with

[cloud flax]

Maybe they used the small clay pot as a miniature model to guide build the large one :P

[shell fiber]

okay... that's mildly puzzling but maybe it works...

[cloud flax]

But it does indeed make sense what you say!

[heavy spruce]

yes, I was puzzled too as when I placed the greenhouse and planted bananas I started getting bananas in my storage, but then, at some point after a load, the storage stop being filled but the trees were full of bananas, so I did those changes and it fixed the issue

[rapid trench]

btw, would it be possible to have the planting square for the sequoias to be the marked one, instead of having to mark a corner of the 3x3, or are there technical reasons preventing that?

[shell fiber]

unfortunately that's simply not possible, the game was not intended to deal with plants being larger than 1x1

u7 is even worse than before on that matter, i had to shrink several other plants to 1x1

[rapid trench]

shame, though in that case it's nice that you managed to make the sequoias anyway

[shell fiber]

the main issue in U7 is that the random rotation for plants is no longer playing nice, i removed it on sequoias and it's still fine for them since you never plant more than a dozen, and they're so huge that the repetitive pattern don't appear too much, but for pumpkins for example, with no random rotation they become an eyesore

[rapid trench]

on another note, do you have any plans for treated planks? because I don't think they're used anywhere, but the recipe is still there

[shell fiber]

no that's a resource i don't like, i don't even want them to be in the faction, but sometimes other people make mods for this faction that require treated planks, and that would cause crashes if i removed them.

[rapid trench]

I see, makes sense, I didn't particularly see a place for them in whitepaws with all the other materials, which is why I was surprised to see the recipe

[astral valve]

I'll try that, thanks!

[shell fiber]

hmm... odd indeed

[rapid trench]

is the change to dirt requirement mechanism for mines/drills/levies going to prevent them from being built before the dirt is finished? because currently if I want to build a block of dirt and a levee attached to it, the levee will often get built first (depending on resource availability)

[shell fiber]

good question, let me check

[rapid trench]

and for the new grand dams, will they keep getting flooded, or join the other pumps in being able to work under water?

[shell fiber]

it waits until the terrain block is build, which is better than the current behavior

[shell fiber]

one side can be flooded, the other side... i'll think about it

let's say that as long as the two storage tanks are not underwater it's fine

[storm gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/forever-alone-alone-lonely-emotional-sad-gif-16264348

I understand you have a duty to thwart my nonsense

Please carry on

[last goblet]

Guys, the game is working for you?
For me is crashing...
the error message says NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
IgorZ.TimberCommons.WaterService.SoilOverridesService.RemoveMoistureOverride (System.Int32 overrideId) (at <6fd47766800f4906b89631af1d9b0258>:0)

[woeful sun]

might be due to the recent update?

[heavy lodge]

TimberCommons is working, so, either is not updated, or is another mod to blame. But, without game crash ...

[shell fiber]

t's really not against or because of you, i also did it sometimes. it just happens in the process of upgrading that building 😅

[shell fiber]

is it crashing on a new game or it suddenlty started when loading a game that used to work ?

[radiant arch]

there has been some updates to the WaterMap and removal of one of the coordinates-to-vector methods that likely might have been used by the irrigation system of timbercommon

might be it only applies under certain situations, like having irrigation buildings active

or removing them / dynamiting anywhere below them

[heavy spruce]

I wanted to show you a screenshot of the ~100 sequoias I have planted over two levels, but I can't open the map
My log says there was an update to Timberborn this morning?

I also cant load my leafcoats playthrough...

[radiant arch]

there's multiple mods that could be causing the crash with yesterdays update

MapResizer for one is known to fail

Irrigation is another likely not working without patches

[heavy spruce]

ok, with just bobing about script pack v7.9.8, Harmony v2.4, Ladder v3.04, and the leafcoat beta v7.10.13, I can open Timberborne (but i need the mapResizer)

[radiant arch]

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/grauschweifs-map-elements works to load MapResizer maps (that's all it does for now)

[heavy spruce]

Yeah its the map resizer

[radiant arch]

Luke is working on a fix. might be out soon too.

[rapid trench]

was the clockwork kitchen supposed to allow bots (because it does)? I thought bots were haulers only

[radiant arch]

maybe they taste better?

[sullen cape]

Makes a bit of sense as it's clockwork

[shell fiber]

intended, the reciepe need several ingredients, so to ensure it gets filled it needs a dedicated worker. since the reciepes are extremely fast it's mostly doing the deliveries

also if you toss a bot in the cooking bowl, it can just get out, unlike... well... other ingredients

[stiff flint]

beavers are leaking out the side of the lodge again

[last goblet]

I'm loading an existing game...
I played it a few day ago, it was working, but yesterday just not load...

[radiant arch]

do you have MapResizer active? that's currently broken (Luke's working on it)
other: it's not certain the irrigation towers (timber commons mod) are fully fine with yesterday's update to timberborn
no idea if someone reported it to Igor yet or had an error report

if you have an actual error report, sharing that / the exception message might help

[stiff flint]

has anybody else noticed that the surface of stagnant bad water is "blinking"?..... it's fine in areas where there's a flow rate but when flow drops it blinks

it's like there's a frame missing in the animation

[radiant arch]

if it only happened since yesterday might be something to report to the timberborn devs. they manipulated logic that might interfere with that

[radiant arch]

@scarlet pelican just to let you know there's been an update to Timberborn that might need some minor changes to the Timber Commons water service. rn it's crashing game if those components are used. (i.e. only with active irrigation towers it seems)

[last goblet]

I'm talking about this in the TimberCommon discord too 🙂

I created another gameplay, with waterbeavers, it worked fine...
But my atual gameplay have 45 cycles, I don't want loose my progress...

And I still tried to load the oldest autosave, but it crashes too (same message)

[radiant arch]

that should prove it only happens when using certain buildings - like irrigation towers that can trigger the error message

[last goblet]

@shell fiber
Looking in the error logs, i found this...
I think is about things that don't have name

Script error: OnTerrainChanged
The message must have 0 or 1 parameters.

Script error: OnTerrainChanged
The message must have 0 or 1 parameters.

The given key Lapantouflemagic.SevereInjury.DeathMessage was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.MechanicalComputerFancyBlueprint.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.MechanicalComputerFancyBlueprint.PluralDisplayName was not present in the dictionary.

Shader 'Standard': fallback shader 'VertexLit' not found
Too many atlases loaded (2)! This should not happen. Exit game to print usages.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.DoubleRopestairs_Reverse.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.8WayCornerOverhang.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.8WayCornerOverhang.Description was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Long.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Long.Description was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Short.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Short.Description was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.PowerShaft_Stackable_HorizontalT.Whitepaws.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Building.PowerShaftUpward.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Building.PowerShaftDownward.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
The given key Lapantouflemagic.Lapantouflemagic.BalloonLandingPad.DisplayName.DisplayName was not present in the dictionary.
Shader 'Standard': fallback shader 'VertexLit' not found
Shader 'Standard': fallback shader 'VertexLit' not found

[prisma merlin]

@shell fiber I'm unable to scroll to the bottom of the ui of some huts, could you make the jobs collapsable or the entire ui scrollable? Sometimes I can't see the productivity

[rapid trench]

there are other mods doing precisely that, one of the Timprove ones iirc

[prisma merlin]

Ok thanks, will check it ou

[last goblet]

I tried to change it to the main version (i was on experimental)...
And copied the save...
Same crash...:/

Must be something with my save...

[stiff flint]

this is my least efficient and most satisfying dam in a very long time

[last goblet]

There's a way to remove the irrigation towers from my saved game? A safe mode or something like this?

[radiant arch]

you can try to disable them in the json, they will vanish and not save thus fixing the next savegame technically

Blueprints/prefabgroups/PrefabGroup.Buildings.Whitepaws.json

• "Buildings/Whitepaws Faction/WaterStuff/LeakyTub",
• "Buildings/Whitepaws Faction/WaterStuff/IrrigationTower.Whitepaws",
• "Buildings/Whitepaws Faction/WaterStuff/WonderIrrigationTower",

Putting // in front of those lines will do.

[radiant arch]

there's a mod that can help: https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/scrollable-entity-panel#description

[sullen cape]

My irrigation towers are working for some reason...

[radiant arch]

@last goblet did you check if you had the latest version of Timber Commons ( from last week ) and all it's dependencies active? (TimberApi, ModSettings, Harmony. If you are on steam might help to force re-install by unselecting and re-selecting them.
just looked at the code and it might be about dependencies or missing files too.

[last goblet]

I commented this lines, same crash

[last goblet]

Yep.
I checked it a few times...

I'm about to uninstall everything, delete all folders in my pc and reinstall.

[radiant arch]

sorry for that..

haven't got any ideas beyond this either

[woeful sun]

The experimental update got pushed on the main branch, so you'll need to wait for mods to be fixed.

[last goblet]

I reinstalled the game, reinstalled all the mods, commented this lines (leakyBath does not exist in the file...)
But, still the same error...

I tried to comment all the water stuff... Same error

[radiant arch]

my mistake: it's LeakyTub

[last goblet]

Today is my day off...
I think i will not play today :/

[radiant arch]

but if that not works: tbh, no idea what is up..

[last goblet]

I think this mods are not essential to wb7...

Should be a way to disable the automatic update in the game... :/

[last goblet]

There's no way to remove the TimberCommons from the required mods to waterbeavers? lol

[radiant arch]

nope

would mean to remove irrigation means completely which mean re-compiling the assets and greatly changing the mod.
also it works for Ants and Igor could not find anything in his code itself, so really has nothing to work on.
it's hard to tell what's wrong really till anyone can reproduce it or figure out what else might cause it i fear.

anything else you could think of? bepinex or anything like it?

a plugin messing with logs?

does the mod list from main menu of timberborn show anything missing / conflicting?

[last goblet]

No.
All the required mods for wb is installed... there's no warnings...
I reinstalled the mods missing in my last picture... (that are not requiered to wb)

To test, i started another gameplay and put a irrigation tower (in dev mode), i close the gameplay and open it again... worked fine...

Last time i played for more then 15 hours without close the game...

[last goblet]

no

[radiant arch]

might recommend https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/save-everyday for next long session. might help recovering older saves in case something like this happens again

[shell fiber]

I know about that, I also know how to fix it but it's time consuming and it's boring work 😅
But I'll get to it soon, my to do list is shrinking

[last goblet]

Thanks 🙂
I promiss do not be angry then the game freezes to save... lol

[shell fiber]

That's because of some mods you have that add more lines.

I have no control over adding an elevator to the side of that window, but I had made it so that it could be all displayed at 90% or 95% UI scaling if you fold the flavor text

[radiant arch]

almost there 🙂

wells bringing those floating crystals and sky pieces to truly shine - they connect otherwise disjoint small islands and make for a whole new different map

[fresh torrent]

chat what is the jar i need for the library to do library things lol

[shell fiber]

Couldn't check the irrigation towers but I got the game to load properly after update, but on a save that doesn't have irrigation towers

[radiant arch]

what do you mean by that?

[shell fiber]

What to you mean ?

[fresh torrent]

so for the very first like

science generation

it shows a jar with like red and green

what is that?

[shell fiber]

Ah kimchi

Fermentation barrel

[fresh torrent]

noted

thank you!

[shell fiber]

Cabbage and bramble flowers

[fresh torrent]

is there anymore plans to add like other fun gardening stuff?

[radiant arch]

hovering the icons with mouse / tapping them should show hints to what it is and where it can be made

[shell fiber]

(I have to go to sleep, I'll let other people answer)

[fresh torrent]

i am dumb

i didnt know u could do that

im sorry

thank you though!

[radiant arch]

GN, Lapan

[shell fiber]

GN !

[radiant arch]

took me forever to figure out too

[prisma merlin]

Thanks I'll try to reduce ui later

[rapid trench]

Have you tried the TImprove mods for it? I checked and they split the functionality you asked for between them, so it's "TImprove 4 UI" for scrollbar in the building menu and "TImprove 4 UX" for making the sections of the building menu collapsible.

[prisma merlin]

No I will too

[fresh torrent]

the tree guy isnt harvesting bramble flowers for some reason

[radiant arch]

if they are marked for cutting and reachable there's demand / priority left

brambles need to be cut to harvest

[fresh torrent]

ah i see

[radiant arch]

(they regrow within a day)

[fresh torrent]

now my forester isnt cutting trees even though they are marked

nvm im dumb

[cloud flax]

Welcome to WB, where everyone is dumb. We all have been through these XD

Btw do we have any sort of lighting decor??I really wanted some for tunnels. Maybe platform with glowing fluid

[radiant arch]

do the half logs still have them below?

[fresh torrent]

what does one do for contaminated beavers?

[radiant arch]

jail them. later give them pollutions resistancy potions (from distillery) and later again put them in the washing machine

[fresh torrent]

ok so early game i gotta jail them

[radiant arch]

it's lacking those, isn't it? decorative lights at night, tunnels, ..

[radiant arch]

you'll likely need 1 jail per bucket post (those aren't safe)
if you get them contaminated from unclean water: try and avoid that when possible. that's a huge burden on population real quick

[cloud flax]

No tori gates allowed in the mod right

Or the japanese lantern or something

[radiant arch]

still the bug about vanilla materials mod, isn't it?

[fresh torrent]

how do i jail them?

[radiant arch]

might be something i could look into next week. i love that tori mod..

[radiant arch]

surprisingly they jail themself. you just need to build one. they need neither food nor drink while in it too!

jail is under 'well-being' buildings

[fresh torrent]

can it hold 3 beavers at a time?

[radiant arch]

and it will be slow to heal them..

having a distillery early really helps with the potions

[fresh torrent]

where do i make explosives?

[radiant arch]

salpeter: mines
nitro: alchemist
dynamite: handicrafter

needs paper 🙂

[fresh torrent]

oh dear god

ok

i found the area XD

so what about scafolding then?

[radiant arch]

architect

gears: mechanic

wait.. there's timbertrees to look those up..

https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/u7/

https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/u7/enUS_Whitepaws.html as direct link to english U7 version

you can search for any resource and see who uses it or who makes it

clicking on any resource filters the list to only show where it is used / made too

[woeful sun]

Probably not essential, but also unlikely to be causing the issue (devs of those mods are also pretty good about fixing them quickly).

[radiant arch]

look who's there from day 1 🙂

[fresh torrent]

i cant find mechanics lodge x.x

[radiant arch]

under science - right next to the architect

[fresh torrent]

..............

im gonna eat bricks

[radiant arch]

it's a very weird complex mod haha

[fresh torrent]

i wish there was a search function just in base game to look for these things XD

how does one increase the pop quickly?

[radiant arch]

wasn't there? CTRL+F? forgot what the mod was called..

[fresh torrent]

i some how have less beavers then i started with lol

[radiant arch]

any 'real' building is a home basically -> more homes -> more beavers -> more needs..

[fresh torrent]

got it lol

[radiant arch]

they need food and drinks and they not work when they get sick or contaminated (they also die quicker..)

or when they get dry.. water beavers need showers or baths to even consider working beyond 3rd day or so...

[radiant arch]

@cloud flax regarding torii gates mod: it's fully fine to use actually.
just need to add these two files under Blueprints/Factions and Blueprints/PrefabGroups and most of them work out-of-the-box.

if i find time next week i'll try and make a proper patch mod that fixes the costs and adds the huge gates (and can hot-fix in case they break again). so far the jsons work fine.
(please feel free to remind me, if i forget)

vanilla materials mod is safe to use - it does nothing at all

[cloud flax]

Sureee man!! Thanks a lot!

[fresh torrent]

whats the new trading post? like if i wanna bring food to another district

[radiant arch]

district crossings?

there's multiple variants of them. but depending on maps using ziplines early might be easier

water beavers get a .. was it 20x speed/ range bonus on those ziplines.

@shell fiber you not mind me putting a patch mod out that would enable torii gates mod for your faction? (fancy decorations, especially various lanterns)

[woeful sun]

"Tool Search" does Ctrl+F (or /)

apparently "Omni Bar & Todo List" has something similar too, but I have not used it

[sullen cape]

Which part of the High-Temperature Foundry is watertight? Feels like it might only be the smokestacks...

[shell fiber]

i think not

[shell fiber]

no problem, but you can just send it to the person who made the mod so he/she can make it compatible 😉

[scarlet pelican]

Folks, I seems to be a bit stupid today. I can't find this mod on Steam. What do I do wrong?

Ah, the mod has a different name now. I was almost starting to doubt my sanity 🤣

@shell fiber Steam mod lacks depenednecy to "bobingabout scipt pack". At least, it did't offer me to install it.

[shell fiber]

Isn't it a dependency of some other bobingabout mod?

[scarlet pelican]

Maybe, but Steam probably doesn't follow it this deep.

[last goblet]

The mod isn't on steam... you have to download it from mod.io
Or you can install the 'mod manager' on steam, open it in the game main menu and search for the bobingabout script pack mod

[scarlet pelican]

It is. Just the name is different. I didn't know the name has changed 🙂

[heavy spruce]

I have around 185 giant sequoias planted on my map.

[radiant arch]

4.2k.. seriously

[heavy spruce]

and 666 bots

[radiant arch]

wow!

[heavy spruce]

and its stable, can be left for over 30 days without anything decreasing

[scarlet pelican]

@shell fiber So, I got the problematic game loaded (with a tweaked code). Here is what I got. I'm not saying it's an error. It's just what the mod (TimberCommons) sees as a strange thing.

[radiant arch]

the red cabbage of doom

[scarlet pelican]

Zero modifier can be a normal case. When I was making this code, I thought it's strange. But it can be changed.

Just, why? Why 0 modifier?

[scarlet pelican]

You may think: "hmm, nobody will do it. Just in case, I place a warning here". Then, you're

[prisma merlin]

I've been struggling to balance my housing to job ratio in my main district lately since I've added the grand dam and the massive water storage buildings. There's just too many free spaces. The job heavy metal industry is in another district. I'm pausing all of the housing with 2 hauler jobs and still left with 15% of my population on vacancies. Is there another good hauling building apart from the hauling upgrade on a forester? I find myself needing to use the exploit of building and then pausing the foresters and lumber houses underneath the upgrades to have proper hauling

[radiant arch]

the triangle upgrades (under farmers?)

having endless unemployed beavers late in game is pretty common

not using districts and relying on ziplines can help with it (also increases hauling efficiency usually)

[shell fiber]

i'm not sure i understand 🤔

[radiant arch]

can swap 2-hauler with 5-hauler too, but they also come with 6 homes..

[shell fiber]

just fixed that yesterday

[scarlet pelican]

Sorry, I thought you're in the thread. Forget it 🙂 Except of the ton of the warnings, which I need to understand if it needs to be fixed or not.

[shell fiber]

i think you're talking about that

i use the water tower reciepe system because i want multiple reciepes, but that building doesn't have a crop boost system

so modifier is zero

[scarlet pelican]

So, It sounds like a normal case.

Sounds like the warning needs to be removed.

Action item.

[prisma merlin]

Ok, I'll try, I was also struggling to import enough dirt into my main district

[radiant arch]

dirt can be a real trouble to get across districts^^

[radiant arch]

this really was the way back in vanilla, wasn't it?

[rapid trench]

I think so; unless you're iron teeth, in which case just build a vertical tubeway

[shell fiber]

why all of a sudden ?

[radiant arch]

test playing and utterly perplexed at how different it plays

there's so little to do. so little to think about. so few options. and .. straight stairs only

made me realise how amazing curved stairs are. or how much i miss the crane really

[rapid trench]

on the other hand you can do more (or at least faster) water-engineering and terraforming with vanilla levees, sluices, and cheap dirt

[radiant arch]

yet you have to manually pause the fluid dump 🙃

[rapid trench]

why?

it stops at .9 height on its own iirc

[radiant arch]

there's no 'fill-to-height' like with water beavers

[radiant arch]

really?? never knew!

[rapid trench]

though I never use the fluid dump anyway because it makes most of the fun water engineering redundant

I think the most vanilla fun run I had was with rules of: 1. no fluid dump 2. water storage at most 5x number of beavers

[rapid trench]

what water depth does the WB wonder need? because I tried everything between 5 and 7+, and it constantly says it's not enough, even though at 7+ it becomes flooded

[radiant arch]

there's been quirks with what tile it expects the water level on

what's the cutout you got for the base?

just below the main building part is enough technically

[rapid trench]

I went with the smallest possible cutout (checked with platforms), so 5x5 without corners at base, then expanding a bit at height 5

[radiant arch]

tbh: i don't know why it not works with that, but had the exact same problem way back in may or so

[rapid trench]

how did you solve it? expand to square cutout to the very bottom?

[radiant arch]

widening helped i believe. maybe save&load is worth a try too

only made the top part wider to fit 7x7 i think. can't remember it well

[rapid trench]

save & load didn't help, I'll try widening

[radiant arch]

maybe lapan would know more on where and how it would expect the water levels

[cloud flax]

I have it in 7x7 and that's working fine

[radiant arch]

question is: which tiles / columns does it need watered?

might be as silly as the 0,0-column or something

and exploding that edge is enough (even if it was not needed for the building to fit)

(guessing only)

[rapid trench]

I'll try to check it systematically 1 by 1, I guess if it says depth 6 in the description, I'll start by removing blocks at height 6 since it makes the most sense to me if it was checking one of those

[radiant arch]

pretty sure i only did top 1 or 2 levels too. that map had very little space to fit the wonder

[rapid trench]

for future reference, it allowed me to leave only 3 layers of 5x5 without corners, everything else I widened to 7x7 layer by layer from the top, until it started working when only those 3 layers were left

[radiant arch]

thanks for testing it this deeply!

[radiant arch]

made the portal wells playable 🙂
https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/diorama-in-the-sky

now there's some fun new way to utilise those amazing map objects Lapan made!

[cloud flax]

Wowwww that looks beautiful!!!

[shell fiber]

Soo earlier today i realised that I've been lying to you all inadvertently 😅
turns out a long time ago i rushed a fix for the Super Fertilizing Irrigation Tower Bath (also the irrigation tower, but whatever) and i... uuh, didn't actually add the +15% growth rate to it, oopsie 😇

(i'm working on it now)

[rapid trench]

speaking of lies, don't the zipline descriptions for WB say that it's +200% movement speed? I think it's actually more than that based on in-game beaver behaviour

[radiant arch]

they get the actual speed bonus from well-being on top

so can technically go to 400 or 500% maybe?

or is it additive? 300? no idea 🙂

if it's like with water it's likely the higher one

[rapid trench]

isn't the well-being bonus applied both on and off ziplines though? I was comparing how quick they are on the ground vs ziplines and it looks more than 3x for ziplines

[radiant arch]

+200% is 3x yes

but i not know the exact number the ziplines got

[rapid trench]

me neither, but it doesn't seem to be +200%, which the description claims

[radiant arch]

you know. if it's true we might get it nerfed again?

[rapid trench]

I wouldn't mind, with how quick ziplines are rn, the only reason for having multiple districts I can think of is computer performance, it might be nice to have the districts be also useful in-game again

[radiant arch]

don't they perform worse even? they need more workers technically and with housing optimizer they need to walk further?

[rapid trench]

from in-game perspective perhaps a bit (though I think it's more worker reshuffle than more workers, and I don't see why they'd walk further with districts than without); but much easier path-finding, I believe; I had the impression in my games that it got better with districts

[radiant arch]

they walk less skipping long complex path using ziplines. eases pathfinding, as networks gain shortcuts.

tbh: i like how it currently gives a real choice which to go for

both options have fun sides to play with

and those far-distant crossings are really nice if you can connect basically from the middle of districts

maybe ziplines are somewhat too good here, yeah

[rapid trench]

I don't know the specifics of path-finding they're using, but unless you have zipline stations practically next to everything (which I don't since each tower houses a family), then I can easily think of why one large ziplined district would have more expensive path-finding, but I admit it's not very clear-cut

[last goblet]

Guys, i can't put a small aquifer pump...
the description says
"must be built on the ground" and "must be placed atop other building"

How can I do this at the same time? lol

[rapid trench]

it's a two-triangle-buildings upgrade

plus the pump part needs to be (at least) one lower than the ground of the triangle buildings iirc

[last goblet]

thanks 🙂

[prisma merlin]

Well I'm not sure that more towers means more complexity IF you make sure to remove all loops. I have bad performance on my computer and I'm always careful to make sure that there is only one way to go somewhere giving me a tendril like pathing. If you disregard the additional beavers from the housing, Id reckon that the performance is similar

[fresh torrent]

is there anyone who can explain the district crossing to me? how do i make sure the other district gets items?

[fresh torrent]

like how do i delegate what resources go and dont?

[shell fiber]

generally speaking the districts will ask for items they have storage for, and they will tend to balance the amounts in proportion to the storage available in each district, at least i believe that's how it's supposed to work.

however i made it so that construction materials are always exported to other districts (logs, planks, metal fixtures, dynamite etc) as well as drinks and cooked foods (but not raw foods, since it's better to cook them first), blueprints (but not diplomas) are naturally exported too

also stuff that is required for building clockwork buildings are not exported by default.

[fresh torrent]

Okay I see, cause I'm trying to make separate like "districts" ones only wood based stuff, ones only ore based stuff, one water one food etc

[shell fiber]

Hmm... Originally the types of districts I had in mind (in u6) was farming district, cooking district, industrial district, science district and nuclear district, if that can help

For example your wood district will need saw blades so separating metal and wood is not optimal

[shell fiber]

uploading a new version !
it affects the irrigation tower to i'm not pushing it as live yet, tell me if you encounter new issues.

oh and 'ill have to update the texture pack again

[cloud flax]

So I was trying to extract the sprites for resources for the tech tree and tried the asset ripper video tutorial but it only extracted the base game content...
What folder should I refer to in asset ripper so that I can get the assets from this mod??

[shell fiber]

i would say it's in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\1062090

then you have to find the right mod, and go to assets

[cloud flax]

let me try it out!

looks like its working!

[radiant arch]

if the mod has a version-0.6 and -0.7 only one of those is enough to extract
to simplify it you can also remove the _mac assets first too

ok, just for sprites that not matters^^

[fresh torrent]

Idea was to have for example the saw blades "shipped" to the wood district and sucb

[shell fiber]

That should work as long as you have some sawblade storage in the recieving district 👍
There's no hard limit

[fresh torrent]

so to get materials basically

i need to have storage that for the item?

[radiant arch]

that's the default for most of them.
processed foods&drinks should be imported to the crossings on top (up to 30 storage each i think)

in district crossings you can access a real long list of all goods and change settings: (a) never import (b) import if storage is free (c) always import

[fresh torrent]

i dont know how to change the settings i think is whats making me struggle right now

cause i dont want my wood district to have like bad water etc

just an example idk if they can or not

but like just need them to request food and water rn since my wood situation is a bit

bad

[radiant arch]

it's not really an issue even if they try to import it: the crossing only can store around 30

you can fully rely on storage

if something's not imported you can change the setting on demand

for example i never build scroll storage if possible and only import them to the crossing

that way can manage which district has which scroll and not need any extras

[radiant arch]

clicking on the district crossing, the side towards the district you want to change the for.
there's a big button there that opens the list

sadly can't give a screenshot rn

[fresh torrent]

oh the ui scale was blocking it

[cloud flax]

you can find the settings here!

things toggled to right (as green) are always import, in middle (as yellow) are import as needed only and on left (as red) are never imported in the district

[radiant arch]

you need to filter the district you want from that tab, don't you?

i always struggle with the small texts and complexity of that

[cloud flax]

yeah at top right. i only havd 1 distirct so it isnt much a problem

[cloud flax]

how did you build this?? is it a different dam model?

[radiant arch]

is it in the new release already? the one with the changed irrigation towers?

[cloud flax]

am not sure... i think am still seeing the old one only

time to join them all to create a tech tree....

[radiant arch]

it's under 'more versions' only

but from the text might not be in yet. only can see and load it tomorrow

[cloud flax]

"Very Simple Tech Tree"

[radiant arch]

it's awesome to visualize, yet overwheelming, isn't it?

[cloud flax]

i think i should change the colours based on the early, mid, late game rather than the type of the building. Would be easy to navigate i guess

[radiant arch]

love the left side down to ENS. that's real good

maybe make different ones for that?

[cloud flax]

this was the previous one... feels lot less cluttered

[radiant arch]

that sounds real tricky. what is 'early' what is 'late' even?

when it unlocks ropes? architect/ mechanic? metal blocks?
trading / nursery?

[radiant arch]

yeah, but less useful too without knowing much

[cloud flax]

was planning to do it like the one lapan did last time

[radiant arch]

earlier version looks nice, but is hard to read imho. also can't see what i want to look for much .
not bad at all. just the later version feels like it would give my 'wheres-this-used'-answers much easier

really like the way it reflects progress in game with the more complex one

maybe a wide format is best for this really

[cloud flax]

tbh i really like the positioning of elements for mine. similar things closer to each other and likely when they will be unlocked and used

[cloud flax]

oooh, so like completely transpose the tech tree??

[radiant arch]

like you got 3 main columns

• science + scrolls
• mines + metal
• utility, crafting, assembly

and somehow kitchens and farming in-between..
(this faction is too complex tbh)

[radiant arch]

just a gut feeling. like columns might work, you know. put different categories side-by-side and keep the time-flow still (i think it's really great to find early things top and start from that)

[cloud flax]

so the idea atleast for first few rows was to have science all to left, food all to right and rest all in between but then it gets jumbeled...

[radiant arch]

like there's much width in different things here, yet not really that much layers are added with progress. most is 3 or 4 levels down the tech tree for each (e.g. primitive > medium > drill for mines)

[radiant arch]

that 'jumble' is a real hard nut to crack^^

[cloud flax]

i had actually though of something like that where every mini tree can be an individual vertical techtree going from most basic to advanced from top to bottom, which can be placed side by side just to compare. But it would be hard to design so that connections to be maintained across columns

[radiant arch]

yeah, i see that

just tried to figure the paper line

and it connects to 'woodfelling' on one end, toward alchemist and handicrafting / abyss and on the other end to sciences and scrolls

[cloud flax]

so would have 1 for science, 1 for just farms, 1 for water, 1 for wood, 1 for metal, 1 for stationary, 1 for food processing

[radiant arch]

might be good, yeah

with simplified INs maybe. like where does food come for science (ENS needs nursery, harvester and medium/ mecha kitchen for example)

colour coding might come in handy for this

your symbols already work great, given contrast and sizing

[cloud flax]

This will be Tooooo much work though since i will have to add even more buildings.... But if i dont care bout inter column connections, then it should be easy.

[radiant arch]

being real minimalistic on the inter column might help with accessibility too

grouping similar buildings might work too. like the three harvesters are equal essentially. farms too or kitchens

plenty work yeah

those highlights on dynamite, trading and ropes / fibre are great tbh. that's so commonly asked for

[cloud flax]

yeah! I wanted to do one with dirt and gold dust too... but they are too far

i'll refine the current one some more, try different colour combinations. then if lapan feels the need for those column like mini tech trees, we can build that later!

i got idea on how to even make them connect across the boards, but it will be a very tedious process

[radiant arch]

sorry if i got too excited ^^

[cloud flax]

hahahaha no need to be! even i am :D

These are the files till now. If anyone wants to work on them collaboratively, I can share the access to the online workspace if you can DM me your email.

am using penpot (open source alternative to figma) for creating the blocks for teck tree as its super easy and quick to make them without the hassle of formatting and arranging. But sadly it still doesnt have option for connectors. So Doing the connections of Draw.io

[rapid trench]

I really like it in general, I think maybe adding nuclear & abyssal power plants and the wonder would be nice, since they are significant milestones; in terms of my pet peeves, I don't love that it mixes up item making requirements (e.g. dynamite) with building requirements, personally I would make them into two separate diagrams; if I find time I'll try making my modified version if you don't mind

[woeful sun]

It's 1000 times better than https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/v0.7/enUS_Whitepaws.svg

[cloud flax]

damnnnn i was earlier trying to make something like this and figure out the logic for techtree but then gave up...... the SVGs that i genrated were a 1000 times worse than yours XD

[woeful sun]

the html/txt files are the most useful

[cloud flax]

i believe it was you who had shared the json dump file. i was using that as reference. but yeah nothing came closer to a proper techtree.... Theres just a bit too many convoluted connections.

[woeful sun]

yea, the other factions auto-generated tech trees are reasonable,

but Whitepaws is errr, not

[cloud flax]

imma sleep now though. almost 4 am. I'll wait to hear suggestions from lapan and other folks and then get into beautification and refining

[woeful sun]

enjoy

I had an idea to try and only draw lines between nodes for "novel" ingredients, but I don't remember if I got that far,

i.e. it would not bother to draw lines for recipe ingredients that were already required to build the building, or part of recipe to create previous ingredients,

hmmm, it's supposed to use a dashed line

did I break it at some point -- probably

yep, due to Blueprints --> Specifications upgrade

[woeful sun]

Updated list of untranslated entities:

• OverhangSquewer_Short
• OverhangSquewer_Long
• BalloonLandingPad
• Recipie for Bananas for trade with the IslandBeavers
• 8WayCornerOverhang
• PowerShaft_Stackable_HorizontalT
• PowerShaftUpward
• PowerShaftDownward

[shell fiber]

sorry i don't have time to check it right now (maybe monday)
but you don't have to display everything, for example the water cannons etc.😉

[woeful sun]

@storm gulch Another tiny (but hopefully helpful) mod, works on Update 6 too.

[cloud flax]

Oh I kept them so that people don't forget they exist as I often do. And it's a nice unique WB building to show off and unlockable pretty early on

[radiant arch]

those new levees are super nice

[cloud flax]

Oooh have to test them out! What's improved??

[radiant arch]

they only require a dirt block beside them.
no more 'above-next-tile'. finally fit into single hole seamlessly.
they no longer can overlap on it though.

mines did change too, regarding occupation, but not that far yet

and that huge dam is looking gorgeous. can't wait to put them somewhere later

just .. choosing the small maps makes it so difficult to reserve spots for them.. (and this map not even needs reservoirs technically..)

[cloud flax]

Is the update out on steam?

[radiant arch]

no idea. since it's only under 'more versions' on mod.io i'd suspect not

[radiant arch]

with recent changes: the small covered tank should fit here too, shouldn't it?

[heavy spruce]

@shell fiber How did you get the banana trees to work, in that they needed the greenhouse to be planted?
I was thinking for the leafcoats if they could use the same mechanism to grow greenery on the outside of the "trees"

[storm gulch]

Oh sweet, this is going to be useful. Thanks!

[shell fiber]

yes, except i didn't push that update yet 😣

[shell fiber]

what's wrong with the landing pad ?

[shell fiber]

i wanted people to crashtest it with mod.io first, but i hear people screaming in pain and horror (not more that the usual experience) so i guess it's good to go live with it

[shell fiber]

basically it's just a plant that requires ground on Z=1 and stackable on Z=2, plus some complementary block occupancy with the greenhouse

the tricky part is actually the greenhouse itself, first the plant don't check if their supporting building has been build or not since they're not supposed to have one, so they would accept and unfinished greenhouse just as well. but i could solve that using the tunnel script that swaps building A for building B upon completion, so the greenhouse you place and build is actually not capable of accepting bananas, but upon completion it gets swapped with the real one (+confetti because why not)

[radiant arch]

a small accessibility issue with T-shafts: it's visually barely possible to figure out orientation rn.

i'm aware of that super tiny whitish arrow, but not able to see it without extreme zoom.
contrast of the overlay between 'is-connected' and not isn't really enough either in base game, so 90% of times i mess that one up.

could you please make the arrows bigger / different colour? (or revert to old models, those work too, changing orientation, but arrow is enough imho)

[last goblet]

oh no :/

[radiant arch]

yeah...

drills too..

but you can swap it and connect below (most walls are still diggable

[last goblet]

yeap... i'll need a lot of terraiin blocks but my drills are gone too :/

[shell fiber]

hmm... it's difficult because i don't want it to be too intrusive either 🤔
i'll see what i can do

[shell fiber]

oh, well... yeah. in those cases i think it's find to devmode your way out of it 🤔

pretty sure the mines are flippable

same for the drills, you can just replace them in an other location with devmode, so you just have the power to rework

[last goblet]

I'll try to rebuild it without devmode...
I like to suffer... lol

[last goblet]

My game is using +22GB or RAM!!!
It's normal?

[radiant arch]

how big is your map?

[heavy lodge]

and, how many items (including terrain and vegetation, and, beavers and bots) ....

[radiant arch]

my 'early game' with <100 beavers goes to 8GB currently. on a small map

each tile, each object, each beaver/ bot comes with a couple of objects that each hold couple of properties and that goes into big memory quickly

[last goblet]

Big...
I think is 180x180 or 200x200
I downloaded the map... don't remember the name..

[radiant arch]

sounds fair to go around 20GB i fear

[crisp parcel]

The Map Name is Beavers Riverland - 256x256. I hope you have fun with it.

[last goblet]

Yep!

I liked a lot of the map...
But i can't find a place to put my 2 primitive mine... (I used the devmode just a bit..)

I think this is not right.. lol

[woeful sun]

I think just loc key not found Lapantouflemagic.BalloonLandingPad.DisplayName

[abstract vector]

I've seen as high as 30gb ram usage with waterbeavers on big maps with high population

[shell fiber]

well that's odd

[fresh torrent]

i cant seem to transfer anvils or the red items through the crossings

[radiant arch]

those are tricky

if there's storage for them, they will retain 1 in original district

[fresh torrent]

so i gotta remove the storage?

[radiant arch]

setting the storage to 'empty' might help here

[fresh torrent]

ok cool

[radiant arch]

no!

that will make it impossible to collect^^

(only remove storage if empty)

for those 'rare' items it's easiest to not use storage if can. and set district crossing to force-import as needed

[fresh torrent]

thats what im tryting to do

its not working though :/ i have it set to empty

[radiant arch]

and it's keeping one?

[fresh torrent]

yes

i only have the one that you start with

[radiant arch]

too bad.. might be no way around 🙂

[fresh torrent]

and im trying to get it to my mining district

[radiant arch]

or wait.. tricking...

you can build a new storage right next to crossing (connected to old district that has the item)

empty old -> bring into that new one -> destroy that -> have someone from target district collect it into some storage over there..

if you have the space you can also re-connect the storage i guess.. have it filled from old, remove path, connect to new district.

might have them all die from lack of logs...
can't fire the kitchens..
can't build the farmer..
and drought got half the fields and forests..

only got 1 mushrom and 2 scrolls left..

[radiant arch]

did it work out?

[fresh torrent]

yes it did

thank you!

[last goblet]

Probably I put the terrain block, the beavers constructed the primitive mine and i deleted de terrain block...
I'll put it again..:-)

Another thing...
i'm building a Long Aqueduct Segment...
I need Giant Pillar in both the sides?

I have a segment finished before one of the giant pillar... 🙂

[radiant arch]

with those: while they work in-game, they might vanish upon save&load (they should)

for the pillars: yes, it needs two for the segment

[shell fiber]

wait i thought beavers got stuck on cranes while attempting to cut trees, but that work with crops ?

[sullen cape]

Pause a lot of housing and focus 100% on farming and water

[shell fiber]

i see, i could try that and indeed that sort of works, but this won't survive loading the game

[shell fiber]

@radiant arch can you check if everything slides in place seamlessly ?

[radiant arch]

looks fine to me. my game loaded, crystals are dev-mode-only now, everything works like before.
not tested the bad water caps.

logs only mentioned some missing keys: (likely whitepaws mod only)

Lapantouflemagic.MechanicalComputerFancyBlueprint.DisplayName
Lapantouflemagic.MechanicalComputerFancyBlueprint.PluralDisplayName
Lapantouflemagic.SevereInjury.DeathMessage
Luc.Loglevee.Description
Lapantouflemagic.DoubleRopestairs_Reverse.DisplayName
Lapantouflemagic.8WayCornerOverhang.DisplayName
Lapantouflemagic.8WayCornerOverhang.Description
Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Long.DisplayName
Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Long.Description
Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Short.DisplayName
Lapantouflemagic.OverhangSquewer_Short.Description
Lapantouflemagic.PowerShaft_Stackable_HorizontalT.Whitepaws.DisplayName
Building.PowerShaftUpward.DisplayName
Building.PowerShaftDownward.DisplayName
Lapantouflemagic.Lapantouflemagic.BalloonLandingPad.DisplayName.DisplayName

curiosity: sky blocks allow path! might use this for shortcuts 🙂

oh, and platforms.. hmmm.. well.. i will ignore that. who would build towers in the sky anyway..
(same with crystal supports, they allow platforms and path too)

oh, thanks for the fix to the covered tank! that's cool!

[shell fiber]

i could fix it but i think it falls in the "do it, if you can live with yourself" category 🤣

i'm trying to rationnalize the trading, probably the jungle beaver will take the door, to leave place to the Emberpelts and Leafcoats

except i don't really know what they would want to trade and against what

i mostly want the Emberpelts to be able to sell giant logs, to allow bypasses mid game if people want to

but i don't want to add new items

so typically ananas can be replace by whatever EP fruit (apple for ex)

the LC already have grapes

(feel free to come up with stuff even if the actual EP / LC don't make them)

but mostly, i'm trying to think of something that could be a sort of universal beaver currency

i don't want to jump to gold because they're beavers

and historically things derive their value from the actual use people would have for them, so tools / rope / metal fixtures would be the closest proto-currency i would see beavers using

[radiant arch]

comic books?

serves as emergency food too

[shell fiber]

ahahah 🤣

i would see that as more of a luxury

[radiant arch]

wasn't being serious 🙂

[shell fiber]

but library books would probably be quite valuable, like "rope bridge engineering for dummies" would reasonnably have some values

or "know your mushrooms"

or whatever

so library books would be valuable i think

[radiant arch]

makes sense for it to be something cheap that's easy to make

[shell fiber]

I wonder if i should make some sort of "beaver bank" that convers some junk into "currency" and then you just trade the currency for whatever in the balloons

or i could keep that for an other weird faction that i have in mind 😅

but honestly i don't know if i'd really go on with it

eh, i'll just eyeball it

hmm...

okay, let's say the most valuable junk any faction would want is knowledge

then there's utility junk, ropes, nails, tools

then of course food

i'll try to regularize the reciepes based on that 🤔

of course trade is not only about what you want, but what they want too 🤔

so i'll keep some trade of weird crap the other faction might want (like nuclear fuel for the polar beaver)

hmm... general question : does anyone actually ever trades for logs / planks ?

[radiant arch]

not really. basically only trading for needs: solar, dirt, seeds, larvae and meats

[shell fiber]

ah, pencils are also a good commodity 🤔

[rapid trench]

I do occasionally, but mostly as a result of poor planning and not wanting to wait on the too few tree farms, or to get rid of excess resources they take for the wood/planks (iirc some of them take metal for them, right?); I wouldn't terribly mind if the option was taken away