Water Beaver Overhaul

[nova crescent]

Okay. Got it.

[radiant arch]

if you put this in Blueprints/prefabmodder/ScavengerDen.json and use the prefab mod from mod.io it works

but the costs are a pure guess

[nova crescent]

No issue. Will wait till tomorrow.
Today I will probably watch some series.

[nova crescent]

Thanks.

[radiant arch]

@shell fiber what was the actual cost actually for the scavengerden?

[shell fiber]

It's tools instead of tool

I think

The rest I don't remember

[radiant arch]

have a good rest!

[shell fiber]

Thanks !

[shell fiber]

uploaded on steam

[still frigate]

I have been waiting for this! 🙂

I have a new map I made (no mods even) that is probably going to be hell to get started on with WhitePaws, but we shall soon see.

[still frigate]

5.2.3, yes?

[sullen cape]

Let's see if anything explodes hehe

[nova crescent]

Name?

[still frigate]

Weird! Part of my map is missing on load. The missing bits actually add to the aesthedic, but the map didn't do this on a new practically unmodded game. Which means these errors could be from any number >42 mods I am running.

[still frigate]

It isn't shared yet since it is still a work in progress. The working name is "Golden Ratio Ancient Aqueducts".

[nova crescent]

Will play when you publish. Looks cool.

[still frigate]

Thanks. This one might go into the contest, even though I hardly have a ghost's chance. /laughs

There is a lot of hidden stuff in this map to find. 🙂

@shell fiber I have been noticing a Z error with leftovers (logs too). So far it only happens when I have WhitePaws active. I'm sorry but I am not sure when it started.

This is a visual error only. Functionally is unhindered.

[shell fiber]

oh, yeah i noticed a while ago.
honesty zero clue what it is about

does that happen with the emberpelts or other factions ?

[still frigate]

I haven't checked Emberpelts. It does not happen with IT or FT, but I also don't have WhitePaws active with them either.

I can save this and start a FT game with WhtiePaws loaded if it would help you?

[sullen cape]

Looks good, no crashes, can't see anything obvious that's missing 😉

[shell fiber]

i can probably try that

even the pumpkin

isfine

[still frigate]

This is WhitePaws or just with the mod active?

[shell fiber]

oh wait

this one is fine

[shell fiber]

FT with WP active

[still frigate]

So it is probably tied to WhitePaws -themselves-, not the mod simply being on. "Curiouser and curiouser!"

[shell fiber]

the cabbages are weird

[still frigate]

Yeah, that looks like it is floating.

Maybe?

[shell fiber]

damn, i just put a dozen sunflower with devmode, and look at that 😅

[still frigate]

They want them noms! 😛

[shell fiber]

oh, funny, they appear as bags on the ground now 🤔

[still frigate]

🙂

[shell fiber]

or should i say on the "ground"

anyway, i'll keep that in mind and look into it another day, i should start get some more actual work done

have fun with the ziplines for now 🙂

[still frigate]

I had one floating this high! /laughs

I'm guessing being in the cave caused that height.

[shell fiber]

yeah i think it has somethign to do with the terrain map, the game probably tries to place the box on a floor or something

now the question is why does the floor is wrong

oh

i think i see the issue

most likely culprit is unity doing weird stuff when I updated the version

[still frigate]

That would not surprise me at all.

[shell fiber]

all plants had their main model holder shifted one direction, then the sub model holder had the opposite one

result in visually nothing but since the crate is handled by the game directly and not through the plant's 3D model, it didn't get the correcting shift

hence, flying above ground

i had noticed this while fixing the pumpkins and thought not much of it, except "wth unity ?"

[still frigate]

Wow. That's just... yeah, computers. 😛

[shell fiber]

but it makes sense now

[still frigate]

At least the cause is known.

[shell fiber]

but that will be for the next update

[still frigate]

Like I said, it is just visual. No big deal.

[shell fiber]

well i fixed it, it was just a matter or clicking a lot and putting zero's back everywhere

[still frigate]

Cool.

[still frigate]

You have reached the point of all new stuff, have you not?

[sullen cape]

The last update I downloaded was ~30MiB, so I don't think I got the fixed version
But crops look fine to me 🙂

So Waterbeaver ziplines aren't for public transport, but for extending the range of farming buildings?

[still frigate]

I beleive I know what broke my map and I am -TOTALLY- fine with it. I like the changes enough I may add them to the main map.

Everblossom trees are taller than what was there originally. Every place the aqueduct support is broken there is an everblossom tree. 🤣

Here are some more broken chunks, but none of them bad enough to drop a support and cause a leak... except that first one, which was where I had manually damaged the aqueduct during design anyway.

[still frigate]

I think my map may be ready. Works in vanilla for both factions and I have survived long enough to go from crappy cart to actual district center. Metal could be reached with a bit of determination. Badwater is a bit more work but not too much and there are some natural stairs to help get to it.

Ya know... no. Let me make sure I can get badwater and metal. /laughs

[shell fiber]

that is a whole lot of berries

does the water flows under the ground ?

[radiant arch]

they do work for transport too. but there's fewer access point options.
yet they seem much faster / bigger range than with folktails.

been rather amazed how well mine perform with well-being stuff

[shell fiber]

what happens during badtides ?

[still frigate]

Yep. Too many. The player is FORCED to delete a lot of them right off the bat because one bush blocks the cart/district center. 😛

[shell fiber]

in FT the zipline have a cost of 0.4 square per unit of length, so they are basically only good as fast roads, not range extension

[radiant arch]

i love those maps you gotta place hundreds of spacer-crops to keep brambles and berries from flodding you later in game

[shell fiber]

with the WP the cost is 0.05 per unit of length

and speed if +150% in FT i believe

with WP it's +200%

[still frigate]

Good question! I'm only on cycle 2. I'm running modded weather so I wont even had a bad tide with my settings; I'll go straight to a badsurge I believe. I need to check my settings now...

[shell fiber]

what does modded weather does ?

[still frigate]

Redsurge wasn't active. I have activated it.

[still frigate]

It is one of Luke's better ones (and that is saying a LOT!). It adds new weather types and gives you much more control over the kinds of weather in your game, rather than the meager settings when one sets their difficulty.

One weather type turns all badwater sources to good water. One weather type rains across all the land making everything green... for as long as it lasts. Even counters badwater contaminated ground. There are options for ever shortening "normal" weather... and he made it moddable so you can make your own weather for it. Redsurge (a badtide Monsoon) is an example of a modded weather for it that he made.

#1379728375396040806 message

[radiant arch]

from your recommendation i tried it and it's fun - more dynamics - yet moonsoon is not for all maps haha

[still frigate]

Monsoon is gonna hurt so bad on this map!

[radiant arch]

been really into Ebb & Flow though. that's a real good one

[still frigate]

And redsurge! A monsoon where all water sources are badwater.

[still frigate]

I run it right alongside modded weather. Together, they game's weather is true and proper chaos.

[radiant arch]

absolutely

the tiny 1-3% of badwater mixed into the normal water is a real change too

and you can hack it with a 0-strength-source

making it a random ground-contamination-source

[still frigate]

I turn off that setting with water beavers.

[radiant arch]

very nasty for map making

[radiant arch]

oh, meant with the ebb&flow. that's dynamically adjusting water purity

[still frigate]

Yeah. I turn it off with water beavers.

But I run it with all others.

I also turn off sludge.

[radiant arch]

yeah, that's a fun one with monsoons 🙂

[still frigate]

I expect it will be crazy with redsurge!

@shell fiber Since one can't replant berries until mid-game and they are so crucial for getting there, how does one normally survive badtides?

Honestly, I always disabled badtide for WhitePaws even before I started using moddable weather.

[radiant arch]

you can rather quickly get pollution repellant thingy and use a normal irrigation tower (or a few)

[still frigate]

Can you please elaborate on this? It is a strategy I have not tried.

[radiant arch]

also there's dams (tricky) and around when badtides come in with medium settings you could rush to the big automated dam thing

[still frigate]

How does pollution repellant work with an irrigation tower?

[radiant arch]

there's a recipe in the normal irrigation tower (only) that mixes it in and makes ground pollution proof basically

it's not even using much of it

[still frigate]

I need to learn to RTFM! /laughs

[radiant arch]

for basic food needs you also have a lido which is easy to place either between buildings, using the starter dynamite or natural holes - very very helpful with hard starts and keeping a shower ready too

[radiant arch]

with how much there is in this faction i do miss a lot too^^

[still frigate]

Well, I'm only on cycle 2 and redsurge doesn't hit until at least cycle 5.

By the by, Dams wont necessaruly save a beaver on this map. 😛

[shell fiber]

do you mean it's raining bad water ? or raining clean water and the bad water source get +350% output ?

[still frigate]

I haven't lived through a redsurge yet to tell you. I just activated the sub-mod earlier today.

I do know that all water sources become badwater like badtide.
But also, all water sources have their output increased.

[sullen cape]

Some of my berries normally survive as they are in range of water irrigation but out of range for badtide pollution

[shell fiber]

oh, i see it's different from rain

[heavy lodge]

Short version " a badwater deluge ".

[still frigate]

[Yeah, I'm sorta wordy.]

[shell fiber]

well that seems like a very interesting mod

kind of want to try it

[still frigate]

You should.

[shell fiber]

but now that i think about it, badwater rain would likely kill every single plant on the map, so that's probably not a good idea

but i like the idea of replacing the regular wet season with just a rainy season

that makes water more realistic

but as long as you don't have a dam... that would suck

[still frigate]

All of the berries on this map are vulnerable. It uses ||underground irrigation with its own water sources|| so prevention in early game is next to impossible.

[sullen cape]

Heh, nasty
The Florist is usable but slow for a reason

[still frigate]

Yeah. -chuckles-

[radiant arch]

if your map has no outflow for the closed off streams (i.e. negative water source or something)
only evaporation gets refilled - making badwater to gather slower - and slower to recover from

that's very nice for droughts - very bad for longer badtides

[still frigate]

Oh, it outflows!

[radiant arch]

love how easy to block that is! (likely otherwise unreachable^^)

might make it nastier even: increase source power lots and make the outflow much higher -> if someone tries to dyna down there to block it it will explode 🙂

[still frigate]

The main berry/starting area has 5 water sources at strength 6 each.

[radiant arch]

that's a lot!

[still frigate]

Indeed

If you look at the side cut you can see the water surging out of its hole.

Most maps I make are deceptive in at least one way. Usually serveral.

[radiant arch]

is the starter region only one layer above the hidden water too? that's easy to block actually with little dynamite

well, with whitepaws only

[still frigate]

It is, but the water sources are in two different places.

[radiant arch]

nice!

[still frigate]

If you look at the previous view there is one water source by itself and 4 together.

[radiant arch]

can just cut off the sources with 4-5 dynamites and use it as a lido dump 🙂

[still frigate]

The one by itself is right under the crappy cart/district center.

Possibly. When I release the map, let me know how well that works. I am very curious.

Here is the whole thing, surface view.

[radiant arch]

i wont play that with 350% water output haha

[still frigate]

-chuckles-

[radiant arch]

ladders need rope too

[still frigate]

Nice!

So far I haven't needed rope but I expect soon that will change.

Well, I have a regular monsoon approaching. We'll see what that does to my berries.

[radiant arch]

just spend around 100 or so

going to attach the scavengers den next and likely move the farmer closer to the bamboo to use as access point for harvesters
(also there's another farm downstaris (the tiny connection through the front gate) and in general much wall-traversal

[still frigate]

Sooner than I thought. Crane reeds rope.

[radiant arch]

20m limit on the small pylon is a little tricky. but you can adjust height well with dynamite or platforms as needed (beavers can fly right above the road 🙂 )

oh, scavengers den not uses any ropes.. they should use 10 like the pylon, don't they?

[still frigate]

I am missing 1 piece of the puzzle. Rope is made from plant fibers. The lumberjack harvests plant fiber. But from what plant(s)?

[radiant arch]

florist is your only source early on

bamboo is fibre source i believe

yeah, gives 8

[still frigate]

Okay. I see that now. I read over all the trees and crops twice and missed it both times.

Okay, not unlockable in early-early game since it needs metal fasteners. So continuing with my core building setups and not building higher than 2 levels. /laughs

[radiant arch]

actually florist produces them quite nicely for basic needs (before ballons and stuff) and handicrafter can make them from 1.5 florists output

[still frigate]

This is where that spreadsheet I made really helps. I need works. Pit asnd ladder loge gives 6 inhabitants, no jobs, and can be made with logs and resin. Also it stacks nicely... until now. 😛

Florist also needs metal fasteners. I'm still working on my primitive ironworks.

[radiant arch]

oh, that's too early for rope, yeah. started using my base stock (from cart) up around the time i considered getting the assembly line

also: the crane gives the rope back if demolished

[still frigate]

Nice! I do that anyway to keep the beavers from hanging out on the side of my towers.

So the monsoon isn't wiping out my berries yet, but it is playing hell with one of my bramble sources.

Redsurge will probably wipe that land out.

[radiant arch]

minor really annoying issue with the balloons: beavers might get stuck between them and access point if there's a pylon between both
(have to unstuck a kit or ten + lapan each day flying through solid rock on direct route rather than zipline)

[still frigate]

Of course the badwater bucket needs a rope! Good show!

[radiant arch]

there's a random forester coming out of my irrigation tower 💪

those beavers are so fast, the wood just lets them through

[still frigate]

Well... they're not iron teeth. Gotta find some recreation somewhere. 😉
(re: the forester)

[radiant arch]

but they got froggy for recreation, isn't that enough?

[still frigate]

Should be. AND lemonade. Spoiled beavers.

[shell fiber]

can't you just skip those two pylons entirely on the left ?

[shell fiber]

it's 1 rope per 2 units of range, so they should require 15 rope i believe

[radiant arch]

only if i dynamite the wall between, but yeah, technically

[shell fiber]

oh, i didn't see it

[radiant arch]

it's pretty neat to have the smaller pylons to go around obstacles

[shell fiber]

i thought i had made it 1:1

[radiant arch]

also love how you can put them one level below the path and run path through them

[radiant arch]

might be a thing related to hauling in my case. handicrafter was next door and only got to 60s efficiency

[shell fiber]

ah, it's 2:1

one florist makes 2 fiber in 12h, hence 1/6h

the handicrafter makes 2 fibers into 1 rope in 6h

so you'd need two florists to run a handicrafter full-time

which may be too much actually 🤔

i don't really know, i eyeballed it really

[radiant arch]

it's working alright for me tbh

only got the "want" for more when i started interconnecting 5 balloons suddenly at a state when i could easily go for tree nursery

maybe 9h for the florist would work too, being a little kinder to the player

[shell fiber]

that's a weird one, would need to look into it in details

in the meantime, well, it's good that the mod is mostly functionnal right now, because i just got a ton of work dropped on my head 😭

[radiant arch]

plenty of new fun things to enjoy, yay 🎉

good going with the work!

[still frigate]

Having a blast, as always

I am sooooo close to enough science to unlock the factory for this playthrough. That is one of my major gatekeeping blocks. Once I have the factory, then I can really ramp up my speeds.

[sullen cape]

Oh I hope it gets done quicker than you expect 🙂

Hmm, are there any alternatives to using a forester next to a triangle building for the zipline or drying tower? Hmm, am I allowed to pause the forester if I'm not using it? 😇

[radiant arch]

only the irrigation tower - which might be even less useful

i do pause them outside drought personally - swapping them with pumps that otherwise would drain my rice paddies using automation

this whole big area can be connected to existing workers for harvesting / woodcutting / farming
and all it needs is balloons and single-time access for the builders

might need to rethink my map-making haha

[sullen cape]

Actually the irrigation tower IS useful to me, thanks for pointing that out 🙂

[shell fiber]

I've been thinking of making a third building that would have basically the same shape as the forester and irrigation lodge, but right now I have no idea what to do

In terms of functionality I mean

Most of the time I'm just happy going with an irrigation tower though,

Maybe a small zip line tower could be an option, which would allow for a drying tower upgrade instead

[radiant arch]

would be nice to have a zip tower base (maybe only 2 connections) but make it even more easy to place anywhere, wouldn't it?

and on top placing hauling upgrades on a zip tower - i'd feel spoiled trying to optimise my grid now^^

might be really nice actually

oh, btw, in artist / copyist it still says "balloon trader landing pad" for the scrolls

[still frigate]

Well... this is going to be a ... challenge to repair since this mod doesn't have any real equivalent to the impermeable floor to put on platforms like this.

Further down the line when I have giant sequoias I could maybe try to intergrade the aqueduct pieces into this... maybe?

For the smaller sections, I guess I'll try putting dams on top of the platforms. /laughs

[radiant arch]

would require you to narrow the path, as aqueducts are 2-wide only and have a gap so you can't close them up on top
as it's natural overhangs it would mean using dirt-blocks to narrow, as levees are ground-only

dams likely are easiest. or just putting some solid buildings below

[still frigate]

Yeah, enough dirt blocks and I could fix this.

This section is gonna be a problem child.

[still frigate]

Well... I rigged something to get up there... but.. got those damned holes in the walls.

[radiant arch]

even more lodges 😉

looking nice so far

oh, wait.. you could transform it to use waterpumps for the wall too?

[still frigate]

Yeah, but they have to open to the outside. That is such a big hole I'll have dams four long and 2 wide.

[radiant arch]

but that would need a depression and the endings for the pumps are hard to place

instead of the outer wall - pumps block water up more than 2m actually (with upgrades)

[still frigate]

I need water to keep going down it though. So I can't fully block everything.

[radiant arch]

oh, okay. so dams that? and later the big flood gate?

[still frigate]

I'm scheming still... The answer is probably looking me right in the face too.

[radiant arch]

looks like fun

[still frigate]

Got one side! I can probably do more or less the same on the other side. Gotta let my haulers replenish my supply a bit and recycle a bunch of my failed tries. /laughs

[radiant arch]

can later join them to the zipline network too

[still frigate]

Too bad I can't give them a giant fire pole for the down trip. Or a slide. /laughs

[radiant arch]

bob got stuck again

now, there he is, hanging around, trying to catch trebuchet loads

[still frigate]

what is he stuck on? I don't recognize that?

[radiant arch]

he was stuck on the way to a balloon platform. the ladder pic is after the unstuck

that's the zipline endpoint ladder

it seems i randomly placed it in line with the trebuchet

[still frigate]

Well, I have the understructure with stairs I personally wouldn't use in a million years! 😛

Still have a lot to cleanup, but the buildings plug the side holes and can reach the ground. Now I just put the dams back in and move to the next one.

And here we have Ozuvoth on the way home from a long day of being injured. LMAO

[still frigate]

Well, I screwed up bad enough I decided to revert a save. With the save daily mod I didn't even loose 1/3 of a day.

It works! Sorta. Every so often the water stops flowing, waits a moment, then flows again. I tried staggering the dams in the middle but that didn't stop it. I think it helped a but though.

Regardless, the ancient aqueduct is repaired and putting the water where I want/need it.

[radiant arch]

you got some big population there 🤔

[still frigate]

I've had a lot bigger by this point in the game with this mod.

It is hard to keep them fed. I really need to unlock some more foods and expand my farms.

But that means producing brain boosting salts and since I don't have any of those IRL, I think I'm gonna sign out and go sleep. /laughs

[radiant arch]

good night

can't build the balloon pylon from below its platform, even though the platform below it was valid to build this way

can build it this way from above its platform -> somewhat confusing..

as in: can build it from below, if can reach the ground + build from above the platform

but can't build it from anywhere between

the rope ladder rocks! 3d-scavenging 🙂

[paper cairn]

Hi! I'm running timberborn on steam but it seems the mod is not working? Is there anything that I need to do first?

[radiant arch]

Hi,

"not working" as in? crash? faction not showing?

for short:

• you need whitepaw U7 mod (if you want to run U6 you need mod.io i guess)
• you need the dependency mods (but not pantry)
• dependencies should be loaded before whitepaws

after you need to unlock it with some other faction first (reaching well-being of 1 i believe)

some mods other than the dependencies might crash in combination. if you got a crash, posting the error log here might help

[paper cairn]

Got it. Yeah when I subscribed the mod in Steam workshop and tried playing the U7 whitepaws it's crashing for some reason.

[radiant arch]

does your mod-list show any conflicts? (yellow or red symbols next to the mod showing what's missing or out of order)
-> those are easy to fix first

pantry mod installed is a common problem - that was needed for U6, but never updated, so breaks things now

[paper cairn]

I haven't got the pantry mod on U7, I'll send the screenshot of the mods I got.

the only yellow triangle i got was the White Paws faction and it's saying "More Groups should be below this mod"

I just subscribed to the White Paws U7 mod in steam workshop and it downloaded all these mods, so I don't know what's the problem.

[radiant arch]

that's missing some mods surprisingly i would believe are needed:

• Bobingabouts Script Pack
  (*Bobingabouts housing optimizer)
• Timber UI
• Timber UI ApiBuilder TimberApi UI Builder

the dependencies aren't up to date for steam workshop it seems

[paper cairn]

does it affect when mod manager (from mod.io) and mod settings (steam workshop) are together?

[radiant arch]

not at all, no

[paper cairn]

got it, let me check on those additionals

is this the timber ui apibuilder?

[radiant arch]

misnamed it, sorry 🙂

[paper cairn]

no worries! thank you, let me try it again

I added those 3 mods and it still crashed on me

[radiant arch]

the more groups only works if its above whitepaws. but that's not causing a crash

could you give the error report?

it's in the timberborn path

[radiant arch]

might be harmony needs to be the first mod to be loaded

looks like something tries to access it before it's available

[paper cairn]

I'll move the harmony on the top?

Lemme try that

it didn't 😦

[radiant arch]

ok, that's a different one now

no idea what it does now or what not works. likely something about the order of mods still.. hmm..

maybe try this:

• harmony
• bob.. scripts
• bob.. housing
• timber UI
• timber API
• timber API UIBuilder
• Timber Commons
• KnatteMaterials
• Lapan.. Texture

the rest

• whitepaws

other than that it would need lapan or someone who knows more about these messages i fear

[paper cairn]

Lemme try that.

[radiant arch]

maybe also: i don't know what the mod manager does or if that could conflict

[heavy lodge]

Try with TimberCommons disabled. If it works, report the error here : https://discord.com/channels/558398674389172225/1242339605634875432

[paper cairn]

When I disabled the timbercommons, this says

[heavy lodge]

Let me try to boot into WhitePaws game....

[radiant arch]

i got it running with same mods and version (minus the mod manager)
if i not missed any
just the order of mine differed

nope: staircase and ladder are .1 ahead of mine.. hmm.. unlikely that's the issue

[paper cairn]

Okay, I think it worked now. I removed the modmanager (from mod.io) and bepinex (mod.io)

Apparently, I think they affect each others mods (somehow)

[radiant arch]

good to know

[paper cairn]

Yeah, I forgot to say that I got the bepinex as well

But thank you tho! 😭

[radiant arch]

glad if it works for you!

[heavy lodge]

I'm blind, should I seen the BeepinEX message 😮

[radiant arch]

exact my reaction 🙂

[paper cairn]

Should that be on the error log? I'm sorry. Haha I should've said it before with the modmanager loool

[radiant arch]

usually it says so in the player log, yes

[heavy lodge]

It is : Modded: true, unofficial

[paper cairn]

Oh lapan added the ziplines! Wiiiieeee!

Thank you! At least I got it working now. I was so confused why it didn't work yesterday evening but I think the game got confused with my mod files as well. Lol

[radiant arch]

it's so fun to play with those!
(there's another layer of ziplines hidden below - so anything is <50 distance really)

[paper cairn]

I did a playthrough with tubes (IT) and zips (FT), so this'll be exciting!

[shell fiber]

To be honest dam pieces having an horizontal waterproofing effect is not desirable, it's supposed to be semi-permeable but it actually behaves like an impermeable floor 😓

[radiant arch]

maybe cut off some at the ends?

so they not cover the whole length

[shell fiber]

Probably will do that

[paper cairn]

A question, is the log gnawing station bugging out? Coz sometimes the productivity stops even tho I got storage for planks

It just says 0%

[radiant arch]

is there storage for sawdust left?

[paper cairn]

Oh, that might be a reason too

[radiant arch]

it will only work if there's enough capacity left for both

[paper cairn]

Got it. I'll that in mind

[radiant arch]

sawdust is used for many important things, so it's not that hard to use up (paper, cooking, .. )
but if you got far too much there's the wood burner too

those are so busy

[paper cairn]

I'm sorry, should dams be built like this?

[still frigate]

yes

[still frigate]

The legitimate ways to repair something like this are pretty thin. Not cheating, it would take forever to come up with the dirt to fix it. Building actual buildings in the holes would mean destroying more of the damaged structure to make them fit, though that is an option. Just a bad one.

There is always just dynamiting the ruined part and using the built-in aqueduct pieces. Though, I believe, this use case is a pretty rare scenario.

And here I thought I was being so creative using what was available. 😛

[still frigate]

Okay, I ripped it all out and redid it without using the dam pieces. The damaged branch of the ancient aqueduct is now "Fermentation Row". 🙂 Gonna need to plant a LOT of chestnut trees, but I need strong alcohol for brain salts anyway.

Full disclosure, two dirt blocks were needed to fix a tiny hole.

Also, I ended up with 42 more living spaces than I had before. Not too bad, all things considered.

EDIT: I ripped out some early housing that was no longer needed and got it down to 1 empty bedroom.

[still frigate]

ALL: Is this too easy?

I have 4 underground ruins placed on this map. Three of them are truly underground and will need dynamite to reach! This one is in badwater, but it is so close to the shore. Would you say it is too easy to get to and should be moved further into the badwater and dead tree lake? And should I line it in metal towers, just to make sure more time in badwater is needed?

This is especially devastating with the water beavers mod because one can't simply assign robots to go take care of it. 😈

EDIT: One of the underground ones can be reached (but not utilized) without dynamite. {pictured lower}

[shell fiber]

If you look up close, you can see your beavers drowning in sawdust 😅

[shell fiber]

Well I guess I can make an impermeable floor type of building of you really want to 🤔

[still frigate]

It ended up not being as bad as I feared it would be.

[still frigate]

I have finally achieved zipline technology. Blueprints are in the hands of my may artist. 😛

[still frigate]

Rope was not my initial bottleneck, but it will be soon.

Paper. I was not making enough paper to make as many balloons as I wanted. I was still running the primitive papermill.

[still frigate]

Um... can beavers fall off of zip lines? I have one guy stranded on top of a building, under a zip line. There is no access to the top of this building.

I have not ruled out that this is my fault somehow... but he's not dehydrated or starving, which tells me he hasn't been up there long. This branch of the zip line hasn't been touched in several in-game days.

[radiant arch]

beavers getting stuck between zipline and platform is common for me. not sure about falling down. usually mine endlessly rocket around still.

[still frigate]

Just now happened 2 more times. Two stranded and one zipping along happily.

It is a high traffic zip line. Lots of use.

[radiant arch]

give lapan some time to look into it i guess

for me it's 'just' 5-10% of population stuck each day, and only 1% needs intervention – well, with 250 beavers

[still frigate]

I haven't -noticed- any stuck. Just the 3 stranded so far.

[radiant arch]

stranded, yeah

so used to the "unstuckify" button 🙂

[still frigate]

yep. I have it set to manual because I want to know when someone is stuck.

For some reason my brain reinterpreted "stuck" to think you were talking about usually mine endlessly rocket around still.. My brain does weird stuff now and then. Sorry.

Even though I am using stuck in the same context you have been.

[still frigate]

I changed my mind. Getting stuck was happening too often so I set the mod to automatic. Not a big deal; it will be fixed when Lapan has time.

Whoa! I watched automatic work a few times then look over and I have 20 stranded!

WTF?!

There is no zip line to the district center. Yet all these beavers are riding a zip line! This could be because of unstuckify... not sure. But it could also be related to whatever is causing the beavers to get stuck.

This may help, @shell fiber !

It jsut watched it a bit. It is an near-infinite loop. Once in a while a beaver will reach a destination, but most of the time unstuckify is sending them back to the district center where they try to zip line somewhere again.

Definitely can't run it on automatic! /laughs

[radiant arch]

oh, so this might be caused by the unstuckify itself?

[still frigate]

Yep!

The looping definitely seems to be.

[radiant arch]

but the number too? as in more with unstuckify active?

[still frigate]

10x as many when on automatic.

[heavy lodge]

Unstuckify works by moving stranded one to the nearest district center. If ,in that way, it reach a point where can get stuck again, it enters a loop, it seems.

[still frigate]

When it moves them they act like they are still on a zip line.

[heavy lodge]

Sure, it moves on the shortest path.

[radiant arch]

and they want back to the old place hmm

my district center is a little.. short on space..

[still frigate]

When you manually unstuckify it still moved them to the district center, but now they are a ground walker as expected.

[radiant arch]

hmm. with manual they just sit around randomly below the ziplines (as mine pass through walls a lot, there's real funny places haha)

[still frigate]

My network has a clear shot to everything.

[radiant arch]

this beaver got a clear shot too i'd worry

[still frigate]

Yep, I jsut had one get stranded mid-air too.

[radiant arch]

a badwater recipe for the irrigation tower might be nice too. to get rid of large patches of vegetation quickly 🙂

[heavy lodge]

You mean, brambles 🤣

[sullen cape]

Are you sure it's not intentional? It does say no sane beaver should ride it 😅

[still frigate]

Watching helplessly as the monsoon takes out every food production item except chestnuts and brambles. Even my rice is dying.

[radiant arch]

sunflower drills - these now produce their own oil

[still frigate]

Some berries survived in this patch. Another patch I hadn't previously tapped survived completely.

[radiant arch]

well, only for some time, isn't it? with badwater coming next?

[still frigate]

Oh, sure! Jinx me! 😛

[radiant arch]

at least you got one season to prepare 🙂

[still frigate]

Badwater doesn't always follow monsoon. Redsurge is its own independent monsson of bad water.

By the by, it is neat finally seeing the free floating exploration balloon meandering across the sky.

[radiant arch]

they always go up to nicely

[radiant arch]

oh.. it really not returns the dirt (nor logs) from demolishing a dirt block while in build 😢 (was my first 720 dirt in this game)

[still frigate]

Yikes

This one may be over. Another monsoon hit and I hadn't recovered from the previous one.

[radiant arch]

looks like enough backup to recover still, move them to a recovery district with basics and build up the empire back from there?

[still frigate]

Not sure if I have the reosurces to build a new district center.

[radiant arch]

well, technically there should be hope if you just focus on the bare minimum and those kits not take all the food away

but maybe the map is just not doing well monsoon either

[still frigate]

A lot of it is player stupidity. I didn't build farms on the hills until the frist monsoon. This one alone could sustane a barebones colony if I can get a new district center up and put this one into it.

[radiant arch]

ziplines actually are a real big help with getting beavers by statues, roofs etc.

used to have those everwhere around the settlement, but now one of each is plenty

[still frigate]

There are no zipline district crossings for this mod. Have to do it the manual way. Come to think of it, I don't think vanilla has zipline crossings either does it?

Yes! Did it! Just has to finsih building and I'll sever the old district.

[radiant arch]

starting to wonder if the whole concept of "district crossings" has any meaning with ziplines still..

[still frigate]

You have to sever the ziplines between districts.

[radiant arch]

when my settlement easily spans 500m of roads from end-to-end and there's barely any yellow marks anywhere in the network and all 20s and so

[still frigate]

I like to do a lot of single-district builds... until something like this happens.

[radiant arch]

it's just hard to imagine a map so big more than one district is needed

[still frigate]

Yep.

[radiant arch]

used to love the greater efficiency from using distinct centers (farm versus industry versus science)

but now even my nursery easily spans what 3 or 4 did before

[still frigate]

I din't start playing this mod early enough to experience those.

[radiant arch]

it was a pain to get decent hauling running when there was 100 tiles between parts of the settlement and they run all over the place to fetch single items and sometimes died on the road
plenty underused well-being things too, as they just been too far from home

BUG: zipline add-on for tree nursery appears to suffer from same issue as large farmhouse-add on
-> they can't be reached from the doors, and can't be built this way

[radiant arch]

hmm. kinda wanting more workers in the tree nursery now (for brambles) 🙂

[still frigate]

At least domesticated brambles harvest faster.

[radiant arch]

grow faster, harvest faster, harvest twice

but slow to replant manually (switched to letting it regrow naturally now, it's faster)

[still frigate]

OMG! Thank you Lapan! The basic zip pylon has a power passthrough!

Simple little things like than can sometimes make a big difference between progress and frustration.

[still frigate]

I ended up brute forcing mine. If all else fails, building from above -usually- works.

[spring heath]

I know it's very low-priority, but I noticed a 'filing' inconsistency with triangle-roof upgrades; most are found under Food > Farmhouse, but the logging loft is under Basic Village Structures > Village Jobs. Personally I think they should all be under village jobs (as not always being built over farmhouses) but I think for sure they should all be together 😅

If there's a way for me to fix it then share the corrected files lmk, I love doing nitty-gritty detail stuff, like there's also some inconsistency with buildings tagged (or not) as functional without workers, stray punctuation (in EN version anyway) that I know I'm a little odd for liking to sort 😂 nothing game-breaking by any means, but also therefore maybe within my skillset lol

[radiant arch]

technically you could copy what the moregroups mod does to order them yourself.
also texts are editable. and it's not much effort to do a diff to see what you changed either.

totally agreed on the triangle roofs needing an own sub-group by now - maybe farmers upgrade can be left where they are

many things related to buildings themself are sadly compiled into the assets and can't be changed easily / at all using the text files

[spring heath]

even having farmer with farms, logging in village jobs and maybe a group for building/hauling as they both have triangle and forester upgrades

[radiant arch]

btw: the idea of having a simple zipline tower-base (like forester/ irrigation lodge) might really be missing right now.
finding myself missing the hauler towers as population explodes and hauling becomes always too slow

[radiant arch]

upgrades-subgroup under basic village structures might be less complicated?

maybe one each: tower-upgrades + triangle-roof-upgrades (with farmer + zipline being left out it's only generic "villager jobs" left)

[spring heath]

yeah might be clearer that way also for what you can't just build. wouuld also, for newbies' sake, like to see the return of the upgarde billboard, to also go in that group

[stiff flint]

I'm feeling that same need, another "forester" shaped building would be great

[crisp parcel]

i dont see the city center in the pic. so for me its not too close . its fine from what you say. 4 ruins is fine for maps.

[still frigate]

The original city center is underground.

[crisp parcel]

its fine in my eyes.

[still frigate]

Cool

[stiff flint]

glass is doing a thing

[spring heath]

not lookin so hot lapan 😂

fantastic sprite btw

[radiant arch]

starting to need a map for my map to keep up with ziplines
(2nd network below ground)

[radiant arch]

this reminds me of a certain platypus ..

[prisma merlin]

How good are bot beavers in the waterbeaver mod?

[radiant arch]

hmm.. about as fast as a beaver on well-being 120+
and carry much more than regular haulers
and work at night without needs or any

also they last forever, literally

so pretty great actually

[prisma merlin]

Nice, I'll go for that after my airship

[stone halo]

ooooh

i see what is happening

so yes, they are getting stranded for some reason

but they arent actually stranded or something

so their path isnt reset, so i will have to force reset the path

[heavy lodge]

Once I had a beaver, that, due to a staircase deletion, travel half a map to reach his destination, just because it can. But, if can't find a path (like on a roof or similar), gets stuck.

[radiant arch]

gave mine a lot of cranes from all roofs or walls they usually fall onto and no more messages of them being stuck (they still fall, lots)

[heavy lodge]

Cranes is a good idea since don't cost rope 😛

[stone halo]

Can beavers cross districts with ziplines?

[radiant arch]

as long as it connects to the path - no

[heavy lodge]

Same with tubeway (except for Emberpelts that have tubeways crossing)

[stone halo]

For some reason, while on the zipline then, it decides a beaver is not part of a district anymore

therefore classifying as "stranded" and Unstuckify moves the beaver

[heavy lodge]

zipline is not a standard path

[radiant arch]

lapans ziplines not all connect to paths - maybe that's something off here

like the entry point is a path of course, yet there's his platforms, that are like buildings on top of the zipline relay

[stone halo]

oh found something!

Oke, so if a beaver is on a zipline and you place a path, it will unassign the beaver

oh, we can test this, could you both help?

[radiant arch]

sure

[stone halo]

so, when a beaver is on a zipline, remove a path that connects to the district center and the zipline

wait, that works ofcourse

but lemme know what happens

if they fall down or continue

[radiant arch]

might explain, why it's rarely happening while i not actively place things
like it only triggers, when the path network is changed or dynamite explodes or ground is created?

[stone halo]

The navigation system is updated, which happens i think in all those coses yes

[radiant arch]

that's nasty.. with how much is going on with this faction all the time hmm..

[stone halo]

This is not WB specific, this is base game behavior

[radiant arch]

is there anything you can read from the game, like a "is-on-zipline"-flag?

[stone halo]

not sure why it happens on WB though

[stone halo]

ooh smart

[radiant arch]

they do actually fall off the ziplines randomly. if that was a question too. only happens on those triggers i'd say. but kinda random.

but that's nothing to do with the unstuckify mod i guess

[stone halo]

Correct, but Unstuckify is not working, but i guess the underlying issue should be fixed

[stone halo]

did you do anything in the meantime?

or did the beavers finish any buildings?

[radiant arch]

still loading the game

just what they did before

and know that it not happens when nothing is build or done by me

[stone halo]

so it only happens when something is build or you do something?

sorry, language problems

I wanna be clear

[radiant arch]

i guess so, yes

[stone halo]

yea, then it is exactly as i read in the code

but it starts by for some reason the beaver thinking it is not connected to the zipline

[radiant arch]

just a thought, but might this relate to ziplines relays connecting to multiple lines + (otherwise unconnected) exit in one building (balloon)?

the anchor for the balloon and the exit are not connected

that's something folktails not have for example

[stone halo]

I havent looked at Zipline code, doing that right now, but it makes my head turn, as i havent even played with them yet

But it might be

it does validate if a beaver is on the line

and it seems the base game does correctly identify the beaver as on the zipline, while it doesnt for WB

But ima continue ChooChoo

[radiant arch]

so far can confirm that they do visibly fall off the ziplines on mass when i start dynamiting things. wow. whole village going on a walk 🫤
this might happen really really often, but usually unnoticed when they can walk home

making sure all balloon anchors are reachable from district center did not seem to change anything (sadly)

[radiant arch]

not using balloons at all == no falling beavers

endpoint balloon might not be a problem (at least during working hours likely at all)

balloon relay == always happens (on things exploding or triggering path updates) edit single connection is enough. if a beaver is on the line while path update it will fall

[shell fiber]

What are the two connections ? One if clearly a normal balloon really but what about the other ?

[shell fiber]

I would assume this is a consequence of unstuckify indeed, but that's secondary to the main issue

Seems like this mod make you require storm drain trenches 😅

[shell fiber]

Ooh that's nasty 😅

[shell fiber]

You can plant them and then remove the planting order, that's probably a lot faster

[shell fiber]

So even with no terminal balloon anywhere, it still happens ? Hmmm

What if there's no relay balloon either?

[radiant arch]

only happens for me on the lines to the balloon relay

no relay balloon = no falling

though there's a (low) chance timing just not worked on the endpoint balloon (but not think it likely)

[paper cairn]

Noooo...

[heavy lodge]

Sure was posted on the proper channel ? 🐸

[paper cairn]

My bad! Haha idk, is this part of the Water Beavers mod?

[heavy lodge]

It is, but , bob only by name 🤣

[radiant arch]

oh, beavers get ejected to next free tile if they "fall" from zipline. even if that is a closed of, water filled cave above the line. that's fun!

[spring heath]

remember that weird pit-and-ladder, flooded-stuck-beaver thing I couldn't recreate? that was bc I misremembered which lodge. wasn't hauler+side door but double door

was flooded, paused to send them out, they can't get out and are not recovering sleep or shelter

[old kite]

So i did a quick search and didnt really see any discussion about this. I might just suck at searching, tho. I just updated the mod today on a playthrough thats fairly far in, and im a tad on the rope progression.

From everything i can find, the only way to make fibers to turn into rope seems to be bamboo, correct?

I know you get some rope from the cart (i dev moded in a mini crappy storage that gave me 36, i think thats actually 6 more than the cart gives?), but i feel like i have to me missing something or it seems you can softlock yourself out because the tree nursery requires rope, and seeds that come from balloon pads that also require rope.

Is there another way to get the fibers/rope that im just not seeing?

[still frigate]

I didn't see it either. Originally. Make a florist. That building has legitimate use now. It's more than the emergency stop Gap it originally was.

[old kite]

oh wow, i never would have thought to check that lol

[still frigate]

I made it into mid game only using florist to make rope. I still haven't planted bamboo. But I did finally unlock it.

[sullen cape]

Yeah it's made in the florist now

And the handicrafter or a dedicated factory can make rope

[old kite]

ooooh, the factory. I checked the assembly line and was surprised i didnt see it there

dammit, more factories lol

oh wait, its a new building. Derp lol

[stiff flint]

i use the florist for brambles a lot... it's safer than farming wild brambles and they look cool

[sullen cape]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-we-one-gif-18212100

I'm seeing double lol

[radiant arch]

that moment, when your ENS finally works, the rewarding feeling of taking a step forward

till you realise, now everything is 10x as expensive and your production far from enough 🙃

[prisma merlin]

Does the elevator to the abyss have 6 or 8 slots? I can't use the two in the back

[radiant arch]

6 slots only

they would overlap on the corners

essentially you want a 2nd abyss to fully utilise all it can do

(or manually switch between recipes with one)

[prisma merlin]

Okie dokie artichokie

[shell fiber]

i'll try to go poke at the beavers falling off ziplines, is there anything else that probably require fixing ?

[still frigate]

The zip lines on top of two buildings.

[still frigate]

This is how I got around it for the large farmhouse: #1070709592176197642 message

[stiff flint]

are the zipline blueprints getting copied and fancified correctly? or are they just mislabeled?

[still frigate]

Just mislabeled

[stiff flint]

ok, i was going to load back in for screenshots but I decided to give up on that colony earlier today. I think the map was built with Emberpelts in mind and it did not have enough water to keep things stable until I have reactors.

[still frigate]

I started over too. I made some edits to my map and wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.

And I'm testing a different strategy

[radiant arch]

artist + copyist have them labeled wrong, but they work as intended

[shell fiber]

oh, right, they can't be build from the floor

[stiff flint]

I'm going to be "map shopping" later tonight, now that I know how the zip lines function I can plan for them correctly.... i'll pay better attention to how much more difficult it is to raise land than lower it before I start the next one.

[shell fiber]

under what condition does the beaver fall off ? when the path is updated ?

oh, yeah and that issue with dirt block not giving back their contents when you delete them

[radiant arch]

whenever the path update routine starts (like dynamite, or connecting new houses i guess, or so)

[stiff flint]

I had the most beavers getting stuck on ziplines over a field of brambles I was harvesting

[still frigate]

And this was reported: #1070709592176197642 message

[radiant arch]

it's not just getting stuck - that's secondary. they just fall off too easily

[still frigate]

I think it is just graphical.

[radiant arch]

like game not can see them as "on-the-line"

[stiff flint]

I had a bunch of different zip stations (i'm really happy with how they work) but the only one with beavers stuck on the line was a scavenger station with a bramble field being harvested from different stations

[radiant arch]

i did not fully debugged the scavenger actually.. hmm..
from the basic things it only happened with the balloon relay

[stiff flint]

other scavengers that did not have active chopping under the lines did not get stuck beavers

[radiant arch]

oh, that might be random. it's only getting stuck at points they can't walk home

i did some intense testing yesterday and it completely stopped dropping beavers (i watched for that too) when i removed balloons

and immediately started dropping them again only for the balloon relays

[spring heath]

double door P+L lodge trapping beavers when flooded

[stiff flint]

if there's some way to have a "red cabbage" for the scavengers stations to clear the no work within range notice that would be a bonus, but I can only guess at how impossible that would be to code

[shell fiber]

hmmm

[heavy lodge]

At lest, that do not want to fall. Is using is teeth for that

[shell fiber]

i tried a bunch of things, generally speaking just letting the game run doesn't cause beavers to get stuck, i tried placing buildings here and there, and at some point placing one double hauler lodge cause 3 beavers to get stuck in the same place at the same time

so that might be an issue triggered by house or work reattribution

but either way, they only seem to get stuck in the "second floor" of the junkyard

which exist solely to allow people to place platforms on the side of things

[radiant arch]

seen mine fall off in much bigger numbers than just getting stuck - they walked home with no notice or whatever
might be easier to reproduce if you span an empty space with ziplines and watch for falling offs rather than stucks (which only happens when nearest tile is not connected to district)

might be purely random it was the junkyard in your case, as that might have been the only space 'stuckable' below your zipline

or use an canyon to have them stuck when falling 🙈

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Something along these lines I noticed yesterday. Whenever I built ladders or something so a stranded beaver could get down (rather than just use unstuckify) the beavers quit falling to that location.

[shell fiber]

yes, that is puzzling, but they also never land on regular ground either do they ?

[still frigate]

Yes they do

[shell fiber]

i never saw that

except that one beaver who got stuck on the zipline

[still frigate]

In my other game, they would fall onto this hill until I built stairs to every level of it.

[radiant arch]

the falling off is the problem part

[still frigate]

Seems to me like it was trying to calculating pathing as they travel on the zip line and when it hits a pathing error they -can- drop, but not always.

Perhaps the beaver is trying to change destination mid-trip?

[radiant arch]

it's about an internal routine that tests for beaver location and if and only if triggered can not determine the tile for a beaver and throws them to the next free tile

as for triggers it's related to the path network updating

btw: the junkyard can not connect to the path network via zipline. it always requires a path connecting to door

[shell fiber]

yes it seems so, but that is probably an easy fix

[radiant arch]

did make a new game to test it on, but the population is so low it's much harder to trigger than with the 200+ it had before..

[shell fiber]

ah, indeed

i also just figured out something interesting about the side platfomrs

the checkbox that allosw dirt blocks to be placed on the side of cliffs, also works for platforms

and they survive save / load

problem is that they become kind of unrestricted and can be placed pretty much anywhere 😅

[radiant arch]

using isolated islands to catch any falling:

• nursery: can fall
• balloon relay: can fall
• junkyard: might fall edit might be due to balloon (endpoint) connection
• large farm: might fall edit might be due to balloon (relay) connection
• balloon endpoint: can fall (but usually return due to ladder being accessible on all levels)
• pylon / station: not seen (basically not possible)

trigger used is dynamite / place ground in dev mode

extended to cover more events and test balloon endpoint with no chance to return

[shell fiber]

hmm... thinking logically, it might be because i made the zipline stations enterable while they probably should not be 🤔

which would be very disappointing

but not necessarily something i cannot work around

well that's going to take a bit of time to debug

[still frigate]

@shell fiber @radiant arch I ran this very minimal zipline for four days without a stranded/stuck beaver. I detonated dirt blocks, I made roads, built buildings, and so on. The buildings at the end are the large farmhouse on one end and an irrigation tower/farmhouse at the other end. All connectors between are generic pylons.

[radiant arch]

i know. using no balloon gave me same results

but i missed the falling beavers from nursery (they can walk home, and are very few only) and maybe big farms / junkyard (still unsure they can fall)

big problem with this is timing too - you need enough beavers on those lines to trigger the falling down

[spring heath]

it also doesn't appear to be de-flooding ie central pit not waterproofed so not evaporating

[spring heath]

am I missing something or should this be connected to the path network?

(the thirsty beaver is blocking it but the stairs are connected to the path lol)

not just scroll rack either

[shell fiber]

Ah great, that probably confirms my idea, the enterable part is the problem🤔

[shell fiber]

They probably can fall off from the junkyard 🤔

[shell fiber]

That's the fault of the building under it, I'll double check

[still frigate]

I can replace the generic pylons with balloons and see if this situation continues to hold true.

[shell fiber]

What would annoy me is that I would need to figure an other way of animating the shredder 😓

Being able to tap in the zip line animator is super convenient

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I noticed something that may or may not be intentional; a large farmhouse in a lake, on top of a pit&ladder building will allow the pit&ladder building to flood and stay flooded.

experiment note: This is the start time of the 4 generic pylons replaced with two balloon relays. (So I can be verify that I let this test run enough to be valid.)

[still frigate]

@shell fiber It happened... and my stranded beaver was teleported. 😦

(The zip line doesn't go over the old aqueduct.)

Not that I expect this to give any insight, but this is the beaver.

[shell fiber]

i noticed that i had forgot a script in the balloons, they should have "zipline tower spec"

which does who knows what, but was missing nonetheless

[still frigate]

Oh, I hope it is that simple!

[shell fiber]

surpriningly enought, it was present in the junkyard

yeah, i hope

otherwise i'd have to rework the whole thing

[still frigate]

Are we still certain the junkyard has an issue?

[shell fiber]

not sure

sometimes i have beaver stuck on the roof

but they may just have fallen here from the balloon

[still frigate]

It will take a few minutes, but let me go back to my non-balloon pylons and then add in a junkyard.

[still frigate]

Ha! scavengers yard gets workers before it is even connected to a road network!

And residents

[shell fiber]

what we can clearly see is that they only fall off between the junkyard and something, of strangely enough between the tree nursery and the tower

the pylon is pretty vanilla except for the custom model, so i'm not going to believe there's a problem with it

[still frigate]

Network rebuilt. no balloons.

Give it 2-4 days and we can probably assign guilt (or not) to the scrapyard.

[shell fiber]

soooo... what that likely means is that beavers get stuck not because of the station being enterable (the tree nursery arm is not)

oh wait the tower is still half-assed enterable but nothing to do inside

hmm... let's retry that

[shell fiber]

for me rather that waiting, placing some hauler's lodges is a surefire way to trigger beavers falling off / getting stuck

while the game is running, not sure that triggers when on pause

[still frigate]

The gave has to be running for me to trigger it

[shell fiber]

just dev-build a bunch of tall and narrow lodges next to a path and some beavers will definitely fall off

[still frigate]

3 "divinely granted" tall & larrow lodges have been placed. No stuck/stranded beavers yet.

[shell fiber]

hmm

just found some other minor discrepancies

like the tall tower gave +300% speed while i though i had toned it down to +200%

[still frigate]

I noticed the speed change but didn't think anything about it. Global 200 is probably best. 😛

Cycle 4 day 3 --> cycle 4 day 10, no stuck or stranded. Scrapyard is running stead the whole time.

gonna add another zipline tower station also conencted to the scrapyars so that it has 3 connections active.

[still frigate]

This zipline station is movement speed +300 also
nvm, that is what you meant

[shell fiber]

right now the most problematic building seems to be the add-on arm of the tree nursery, strangely enough

[still frigate]

I haven't built one yet.

[shell fiber]

so it's probably an issue with mis-matching the ground floor paths or somethign

[still frigate]

Odd place for a door???

If that door is for the zipline shouldn't it have a planform/overhang?

Which also means... can the plants in the barrels be "blocking" the zipline construction?

At the height of that door and construction bottom I am blocked form a side platform. The skewer overhang is blocked as well.

I had to go 4 high before the regular overhand would take. But the skewer overhang took at 3-high.

[shell fiber]

found yet more errors in the junkyard

[shell fiber]

yeah, honestly this second door is a remnant from the glass cage upgrade

[still frigate]

This structure allows it to be built... like how I brute-forced the farmhouse.

[shell fiber]

maybe i'll give it an actual platform at some point

oh, i just fixed that... i think

[still frigate]

Tree nursery has been added to the network and no errors. So... I'm gonna try the balloon endpoint next.

Balloon endpoint is live and on the network. Lets see what happens.

Added 4 tall & narrow lodges. no immediate error. Letting the game run

Took two days but I have a stranded. Dropped him nowhere near the balloon.

I have removed the balloon endpoint.

Damn it!!! Got a stranded with no balloons on the network.

[still frigate]

Been another 4 days and no stuck/stranded beaver.

[shell fiber]

the tree nursery and the farmhouse ziplines cause issues clearly

[still frigate]

The farmhouse has been in place for every test.

[shell fiber]

funnily enough, apparently less so than the junkyard, which i would have sworn would be the biggest clusterf$%# of all

it still occasionnaly drops a beaver every know and then

at least on my side

[still frigate]

Any closer to determining why?

[shell fiber]

still very unclear

but i'm more leaning toward some entry/exit location issue being blocked or "not as expected" than the building being enterable as a whole being the problem

because clearly they pylons are not

and the tree nursery upgrade neither

so that cannot be the issue

i'll keep poking at it

but if i cannot fix it... well i can just add in the description that beavers sometimes fall off and... well that or being eaten by a grue...

[still frigate]

Okay. I should have several more hours, so consider me at your disposal for anything you wish me to try.

[shell fiber]

😅

well sadly i am not

leavign in like 5-10 minutes and i have to get ready before that

i'll put my current build on mod.io if you want to ty, but that's not a real version

[still frigate]

Sure

[shell fiber]

still it should be at least...less problematic

also i added a small platform in front of the attic door of the tree nursery

up !

[still frigate]

cool. I'll unsub from steam and go to the mod.io version.

[still frigate]

Still tyring to come up with the courage to submit any of my maps to the contest.

It doesn't like something I'm running. Uncaught exception on attempting to load.

I'll try a new game.

@shell fiber It finally gave an error log.

First uncaught exception at 2025-07-19 00:47:45Z
Stopping all root objects in active scene
Creating an exception game save
Unloading 5 Unused Serialized files (Serialized files now loaded: 18)
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at Timberborn.Reproduction.ProcreationHouse.HasFreeChildSlot () [0x00000] in <9a6933b4ea1349969ef10b1bd0a3a28f>:0 
  at Timberborn.Reproduction.ProcreationHouse.ProcreateAmongDwellers (Timberborn.EnterableSystem.Enterer enterer) [0x00000] in <9a6933b4ea1349969ef10b1bd0a3a28f>:0 
  at Timberborn.Reproduction.ProcreationHouse.<Awake>b__6_0 (System.Object _, Timberborn.EnterableSystem.EntererAddedEventArgs e) [0x00007] in <9a6933b4ea1349969ef10b1bd0a3a28f>:0 
  at Timberborn.EnterableSystem.Enterable.Add (Timberborn.EnterableSystem.Enterer enterer) [0x0003e] in <8ebc874b8e184b33a47f022bf2bf2188>:0 
  at Timberborn.EnterableSystem.Enterer.Enter (Timberborn.EnterableSystem.Enterable enterable) [0x00045] in <8ebc874b8e184b33a47f022bf2bf2188>:0 
  at Timberborn.EnterableSystem.Enterer.ResolveLoadedState () [0x00026] in <8ebc874b8e184b33a47f022bf2bf2188>:0 
  at Timberborn.EnterableSystem.Enterer.Start () [0x00000] in <8ebc874b8e184b33a47f022bf2bf2188>:0 ```

I'm gonna continue to assume it was an incompatibility with my saved game.

[shell fiber]

That's odd

It did that to me once, but I still cold load grauschweif's test map

[radiant arch]

a simple platform + stair / ladder behind is enough to reach nursery zipline add-on. it's really only 1m above ground beavers have to go for it to built from below

[still frigate]

I have one more block... (just one!) that I wish to change on my map. Then I'll let you know if it plays nice with a new game.

[radiant arch]

crashes for me too

[still frigate]

Existing save?

[radiant arch]

mid-game save

[still frigate]

same

[heavy lodge]

Any chance that you have enabled the Configurable Houses mod ?

[radiant arch]

bobingabouts housing optimizer mod? that, yes

[heavy lodge]

Not that. It's Luke's mod

[radiant arch]

no, not me.. oh, wait.. my error came form another mod. need to test again 🙂

mine did load!

[old kite]

I afk'd at the wrong time i guess lol. Is this a bug, or is it intended and the description text on the outflow hasnt been updated?

[radiant arch]

never seen that happen! is that new?? (or a mod?)

btw @still frigate would monsoon / redsurge apply to abyss too?

[old kite]

I dont think i have any mods that would do this, but i'd have to go through them to be sure.

I know it worked fine on U6 the last time i played, this is on 7.

[radiant arch]

not yet got this far on U7 and plenty worried now (only just building the abyss elevator)

ziplines: still getting beavers stuck with the interm version
as the map is too big no idea what for thought (likely balloons; anything else could walk home)

[still frigate]

Not sure. I haven't ever gotten to that. I would assume not since there isn't a set water level with the ancient ruins.

[still frigate]

Worked fine as a new game. 🙂

[still frigate]

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/noxbestias-ancient-aqueducts#description

I just put it up for the contest. I haven't added it to steam yet, but I will.

[iron wind]

Hi, I guess this will be much better place for a bug report than steam - the 24 long ranged district crossing is unable to be built (gets stuck on "waiting for materials"), probably because it is set to cost 12 planks and then another 12 planks on top of that. Guess the other planks were meant to be metal fasteners.
And thx for the mod, it truly is something!

[still frigate]

If memory servers that you need materials at both ends of it to build it.

I think that is why it was listed twice, but it has been changed isnce I last built one.

[radiant arch]

i don't think it needs to be build on both end. it's fasteners that's needed here. for this display to happen it might have referenced a non-available version of plansk

[still frigate]

Yeah... I just looked at the other ones and they are metal fasteners.

[radiant arch]

give me a little and i could give a quick patch for it using prefabmodder mod

(or wait for lapan to actually fix it in the next few days)

[iron wind]

It can wait, the beavers can walk longer distance in the mean time 😄

[radiant arch]

For all that like me can't continue with broken building costs (..)
putting this into the mod at /Blueprints/PrefabModder/RangedCrossing24.Whitepaws.json and using https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/moddable-prefab will fix the costs

[still frigate]

@shell fiber For the dev version, the overhang with the drop basket is missing and the regular overhang is listed twice. No, for the regular, one of them is backwards facing. Neat. Probably needs a description tweak to differentiate it. 🙂

Also, is this recipe correct? Everything else is sawdust and stuff. Dirt is a pretty late game resource still, correct?

[still frigate]

This one is still cranky to build.

[radiant arch]

randomly got an exception too that looks like this.
been unstucking beavers and game crashed on me. might be a conflict with reassignment or housing script ??
as it only happened this once after many cycles i'd assume it to be bad timing. likely fixed too, when no more beavers fall off lines.

[radiant arch]

hmm.. happened again.. this time i did not trigger anything myself. 😦

[still frigate]

Lapan did warn us that he rushed this out without finishing and that it may not be stable.

[radiant arch]

no problem with that. just reported in case it helped

[radiant arch]

this works.. yet not works.. no extended range for connecting higher.. too bad 😦
(scavengers junkyard via far-distant balloon endpoint – well, time to build a new one)

actually that design is sweet - you give us maximum range without taking away the height

[old kite]

I had the same issue with the clockwork log farm thingy. that one as 400 dirt x 2 iirc

[radiant arch]

weird. curious what that one was supposed to cost

could build them fine in my last game (U7) but never looked at the price

looking at it the first dirt likely should be 25 rope - might have been a copy&paste issue

[shell fiber]

the script that prevents contamination is broken 😓

[shell fiber]

one of them is a test duplicate

[shell fiber]

stupid unity sometime forgetting half of my changes on things that have many scripts 😑

[shell fiber]

the hanging squewer is now dev-locked, that's a bad building anyway

[shell fiber]

the duplicated that can be place at mod-height is a test, don't build it and assume it will stay 😉

[shell fiber]

yeah, considering changing it, but should i ?

[shell fiber]

grumpf

yes

need to fix

[still frigate]

I only quit using it unitl the glitch is fixed. (Or have you already fixed it?)

[shell fiber]

what does the crash log says ?

[shell fiber]

hmm...not really supposed to be possible in the first place

[shell fiber]

unity again...

[shell fiber]

it's when adding the rope, i add one item to the array, change the name and value, then move on the next one. but because unity is a flaming pile of crap it just discards half of my changes and can't even be bothered telling me.

okay, let's model a small tower building to have one more zipline option

[radiant arch]

same as the one from NoxBestia really. nothing else in player log

[shell fiber]

need a bit more fluff but something like that

[radiant arch]

technically: wouldn't this overlap with tower upgrades, the zipline being on the 'inner' side?

even if it was slightly above the body part of the tower? (just curious. like this design better)

[shell fiber]

no worries, it might be slightly inconvenient, but i have an upgrade on hand to check the openings etc

[still frigate]

Nice

[radiant arch]

oh.. my stack of 50 zipline scrolls is.. gone.. 🙃

also first beaver washer build. what fun to follow a beaver using it. cam wobbles all the same haha

did miss out on that one for too long

kinda inclinced to accidentally spill a little badwater now.. hmm..

[radiant arch]

nice homely touches!

[shell fiber]

oh, i just noticed that i accidentally had removed the dwelling spec in the junkyard 😱

[shell fiber]

the small flowerpot above is actually really important

otherwise there would be some weird gap in the model once combined with the upgrades 🤐

also, it works fine for now

no beavers falling off like idiots

i also reworked the descriptions so that those are reffered as "small towers"

not just "replace forester"

[radiant arch]

just now entering the 500-tiles-from-home distance on my map: ziplines make it say 30 🤯

still experiencing some issues with base-game hauling despite the very short distances between things. (at 500 beavers and as many buildings)
especially around water, methane and so, that needs to be transported to /from many places and very often - but often triggers for single items..

using storage somewhat can reduce it, when there's a storage near a couple of pumps for them to drop off to, that storage set to "supply" and a huge central tank set to "obtain" + "priority"

distributing methane to around 50 stations on the other hand is somewhat tricky. as is water irrigation small towers (they seem to suck at fetching water without haulers)

basically there's a mid-/ end-game gap still between having enough haulers (>20% of population likely at this point), enough water+food and finally getting a lot of bots do the running

[shell fiber]

in that case not prioritizing them can help 🤔

[radiant arch]

just checked: there's essentially only the critical 3 irrigation lodges, cooking and very few industries with priorities. very minimal i'd say

base game problem and just something i noticed, as it slowed production and needs some attention at times

given the number of industries, likely should have closer to 1 hauler for each 🤔

[radiant arch]

oh, just noticed: you can't reach one door on the advanced sawmill if it's place on top of another (one is fine, one is blocked by the giant log in front)

would be cool, if that one was flippable for that reason

[radiant arch]

tricky only in that pollution resistance stops whenever water is out. this periodically kills some of my plants (which happens fast). priority hauling helps with this. otherwise it's been okay using them more now with ziplines

[radiant arch]

in the abyss mine it's possible to get 5 dirt per 12 hours -> is this intended to be this inefficient? (clay is 1h per 5, and 25% drill use of dirt)

[stiff flint]

I'm going to be using this library + florist configuration in every colony now

[radiant arch]

that's beautiful!

[sullen cape]

Oh I like it, and I need one that's not so tall on this crazy map that's underground 😂

[radiant arch]

pilgrimage from 'supply' container to big water storage
they carry 6 water on average, which is fine for the short walk (<40 tiles)

would giving haulers a speed bonus instead of the (mostly unused) capacity help more in later game? would that be possible?

the massive capacity is helpful for rare cases like the foundry. but otherwise i've seen it rarely used

or did i miss something it's really needed for?

[radiant arch]

(as for unprioritising the big water tank: it indeed increases water to around 9 per hauler, but lowers productivity on the pumps by around 30% essentially killing this colony)

but again: maybe i only have too few haulers (~100 for 500 beavers, 1 upped pump per 20 beavers too) or miss something else

[shell fiber]

oh, nice 🙂

[shell fiber]

no, i don't know what to do about that indeed

i'm starting to get quite annoyed at this stupid zipline on the tree nursery 😑

[radiant arch]

why?

it's hard to fix?

[shell fiber]

i don't understand for sure where the problem comes from, and nothing i try seems to do anything.

right now the main route in which beavers fall off is between the tree nursery and its first connection

the large farmhouse also loses some beavers

the new small tower didn't drop a single one as far as i could see

[radiant arch]

so you did check for any 'off' configuration on them and there's no difference to scavenger or towers left?
also balloons work now?

might there be a problem with where the entrance is relative to the 'building' it's mounted on?

or with the base building having access from inside too (or however the pit&ladder works)?

in general, as they are endpoints, those two would be the least of the problem while playing. having fixes for the others would make a huge difference already imho

[still frigate]

Actually, there is a trick to this. Use a double platform in front of that one space. I stack those all the time.

[radiant arch]

if you look at them from the front: the right side? can't place anything there

i can do the left side fine (ladders work, even if the sawblade runs through). but that's the far side now and it's less efficient..

as they have two doors it's more of a nitpick though 🙂

[still frigate]

Maybe I'm thinking of something else. I'm not in game right at the moment.

[shell fiber]

wait what in the hell ?

i tries with the small tower and it also drops beavers in that spot ?

ah !

gotcha

this building is basically the vanilla tower, so either the problem comes from the upgrade tower, either the system in itself is at fault

either way, i think i'm not going to spent too much more time bashing my head at this

beavers can fall off ziplines, that's not a bug if it's a feature 😅

[still frigate]

Gotcha! I had the rudimentary in my head not the advanced. I see where your beef is.

[heavy lodge]

Add a parachute to them 🪂

[shell fiber]

don't know what to do about that, would need to rework the building entirely

best i can do is remove the door 🤐

[still frigate]

I -almost- suggested that.

[still frigate]

Wish I had thought of that! I've been doing this jankyness.

Unfortunately, I'm at a point with a consistent crash with the interim-version. But I think Lapan said he had a fix, so I can just wait for the next build. 🙂

[radiant arch]

i switched back to the previous version (non-interim). same level of falling offs so no real difference for me

[still frigate]

I could do that too, I suppose.

[shell fiber]

ideally i still prefer to have things work optimally of course, but this time...

[shell fiber]

wether the game likes it or not, i will get these damn towers buildable

yep, all good

and this one is like this

*off

ooh, interesting

not exactly intended, but the beavers won"t visit the balloons for entertainment if they are out of methane

despite the attraction not consuming methane, strictly speaking

[radiant arch]

thanks for your time and effort

[still frigate]

Also on steam or mod.io only?

[shell fiber]

both

[still frigate]

Cool. This should get past my crash. 🙂

[shell fiber]

i think it should

[radiant arch]

small zipline towers are nice. can start ziplines even earlier too now.

[still frigate]

By the by, the second overhang platform (that doesn't work) is still there.

[still frigate]

Yep! Made it to the next day.

[polar wind]

mhhh
What is the order in the mod manager to get it running and not crashing the whole time?
i only enabled the mods that the Water beaver mod is telling me.
SO why is it crashing?
Can someone help?

[still frigate]

Here are the most common errors:

• downloaded U6 version instead of U7 version
• have "Pantry" activated
• haven't resolved all yellow exclamation marks in the mod list

[polar wind]

pantry could be a thing, hold on

ohhhhh
i reached the main menu
nice

thanks mate
and i have the water beaver downloaded over the mod manager ingame
not over the mod website

so should be autoup to date, right?

huh

but the game isnt showing me the water beavers if i click on new game
mhhh

[still frigate]

Yeah, if you have it from steam it will update. Can you please show me your mod list that includes the Whitepaws mod?

[polar wind]

here mate, thats all mods i have activated atm

[still frigate]

Note the version difference. You have the U6 version installed.

you want this one: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3508401248

Don't worry. This happens a lot.

[polar wind]

thank you for helping, will try it out now and see if it works

[still frigate]

Cool. Enjoy.

If you don't have unstuckify installed, you will want that. At least once you start zip-lines.

[polar wind]

i need a good strat at the start for building a small damn for water and somthing for blocking the badtites

[still frigate]

Most buildings are dams. As for badwater, that is tricky since there are no sluices. At early level there are generic dams (minimum 2x3) but to make those you need to have finished your new district center and switched to it.

Here is the technology/unlock flowchart. It is a bit old but still mostly accurate.

For me, in any start, these are critical:

Well... maybe not the sawmill immediately. Use the gnawing station for a bit. I tend to have 5 or 6 gnawing stations going up into very late game, just to make sawdust for growing mushrooms quickly.

The primitive ironworks unlocks the ability to make the parts needed to make dams that allow some water to pass

important reminder: you need to have your new district center 100% finished -before- you break the crappy cart or it is game over for your colony. (As I learned the hard way in my first ever game.)

[stiff flint]

turning bad tides off or deleying them for additional cycles are also valid ways to deal with them

[still frigate]

Yeah. I personally turn them off for Whitepaw games... unless I need to test a new map.

[stiff flint]

I'm struggling to find a good map.... why is it so hard to find a Whitepaw friendly map where i can have a nice lake without needing to mole around underground or squirrel across canyons?

[old kite]

have you tried lemon canyon?

[stiff flint]

I'll take another look at Lemon Canyon.... right now the lines between challenging and frustrating are pretty thin

I look at half of these maps and all I can think is "why would beavers settle hear? this is a silly place"

[still frigate]

@shell fiber was it intended for the endpoint balloon to not connect the district? The balloon is showing it is connected, but road below it does not show as connected to the district.

Is that what you mean by this?

[shell fiber]

Ah crap

[shell fiber]

They require a blueprint right ?

[still frigate]

They do.

[shell fiber]

Yes the balloon on not meant to replace towers, this one just gives access to work down on the ground, typically for scavengers

[still frigate]

Okay. Just verifying I understood.

[sullen cape]

Thanks Lapan!
Now I can get ziplines in tighter-fitting places

This is a great QoL feature, along with marking the triangle buildings for upgrades

[still frigate]

I've lost track of how many Whitepaws games I have played, but I only just this current game figured out how to keep from going crazy with blueprint duplication without having to babysit it!

I had been putting my duplication into an infinite loop but having the copyist and artist set to the same blueprint. Instead, make sure the copyist and artist are on different blueprints. It is so simple. I should have seen it all along.

[still frigate]

Worked beautifully.

[still frigate]

Thank to you, I realized that another alternate that would work if using ladders was:

XMMMX
XMMMXX
XM4__X
__4__X
XXXXXX``` This leaves a nice little 2x2 section of ground  in the fence.  But what to do with it?  😛

[shell fiber]

oh, actually on that note, i think i want to make the small towers have a bit less range, probably 20 like the pylons, since they have the same height.

[still frigate]

Just because something is both fair and logical doesn't mean I have to like it! j/k

[shell fiber]

personnally i leave both on the same reciepe for a while so they can make 25-ish copies, then i pause or change the reciepe of the copiyst to something else, and wait for the artist to fancyfy all the remaining copies of the blueprint. doing like JC and keeping a random mish-mash of fancy and non-fancy blueprints would drive me nuts.

[shell fiber]

i think stacking crappy warehouses with platforms is a good idea

[sullen cape]

Yeah I checked, they have 30, the small ones have 20, and the big ones have 40
I'm happy to build more pylons if you want to make it 20 metres instead of 30m

[still frigate]

Yes, but that means paying close attention and not having ADD. 😉

Being distracted in this game before I figured it out has given me a lot of zipline expansion.

[shell fiber]

ah, right, the zipline duplication reciepe doesn't have the right name

[still frigate]

I can't tell if this is serious or not. /laughs.
(guessing not)

[shell fiber]

nah it's fine i think, the 2x2 piles can fit and can be supplemented with platforms. of course it's not super dense storage but that works.

[still frigate]

This is news to me! I never realized that one could put platforms directly on top of these! I was trying to figure out how I would even do that without having the 1x3 overhanging metal platforms.

And on that note, if you are willing to delete your mine and rebuild it, you can blast that 2x2 space all the way down and stack these things up first.

@shell fiber I just found a niche use for another tower-upgrade building! The logging tower. Just like the logging loft for double-triangle roofs, except for the tower and triangle roof.

For places like this where an insane player is doing major mixed uses of the land. 😉

Though I suppose this is a just as viable of an alternative, with a lumberjack's barn on the bottom and a harvester's drying tower on top.

Am I imagining it, or wasn't there something that would "trim" giant sequoias instead of cutting them down???

[shell fiber]

actually i've been considering making other types of tower upgrades

[still frigate]

yes, please!

[shell fiber]

there use to, but probably was confusing

[still frigate]

So something from U6, or just removed 'recently'?

[shell fiber]

removed quite a while ago, probably mid-U6.

[still frigate]

Huh. Wonder how I knew about it? I hardly did stuff in U6. Maybe 2 full games and a bunch of dev-mode testing to help with U7 stuff.

[shell fiber]

the problem with adding a lumberjack tower it that it often becomes more efficient than the lumberjack barn, which then becomes useless, and there's not much point making every possible combintation of buildings.

[still frigate]

Too true.

But nothing will replace my bramble harvesting machine! Two lumberjack barns with a logging loft!

[shell fiber]

unless i'm frogetting something, right now the most interesting combinations are :

• irrigation + farm (typical farm setup)
• irrigation + gatherer (typicall berry / chestnut / wine setup)
• forester + lumberjack (typical woodfarm, assuming water comes from elsewhere)

to all of them you can always add a zipline now, or a gatherer for forester + lumberjack + gatherer combo... which is only mildly usefull 🤔

i dont think anyone really needs a full width resin farm, so irrigation + tapper + gatherer is also a good combo i think

is there anything that would be neat having as an upgrade that cannot be done by making it a base building, and the upgrade something else ?

[shell fiber]

actually i tried that too, it's pretty neat

[still frigate]

And how does this work? to all of them you can always add a zipline now

[shell fiber]

well the tall zipline tower no ?

[still frigate]

Ah. Okay. Instead of another upgrade. Gotcha

Me being greedy again! 😛

[radiant arch]

i do add another lumberjack / farm / whatever just across the path of a zipline tower if i need more workers

connects to the zipline just as well as the ones under it

like a big farmhouse and next to it two small ones + upgrade. they can handle a couple of balloon relays easily

same with brambles actually or bamboo

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Mechanics question: Did you later the desirability of berries? I've seen my beavers attacking my berry storehouses before going after say... awful stew. (Not that -I- can blame them!)

I now there was a mod to make berries more desirable.

[radiant arch]

you try to feed them awful stew??

[still frigate]

Mid-game yes!

I abandon it when I have proper mechanical kitchens.

Then it is only a trade item.

[radiant arch]

i always go for mecha kitchen first haha

[shell fiber]

in base game berries don't fullfill any need and therefore are not sought-after by beavers.

[still frigate]

And I eventually 'get around to it' /laughs

[shell fiber]

so yes i have that changed, they now give a well being bonus so beavers will eat them before foods that don't, like raw cabbage etc

[shell fiber]

wait don't they require a robotic controller ?

[radiant arch]

no

[still frigate]

Thankfully not!

😛

[radiant arch]

and regular kitchens only provide drinks essentially, and they require either brambles or lotus, which is late / too rare..

[still frigate]

I try not to advise on balance. I really suck at balancing stuff.

[radiant arch]

same

[shell fiber]

hmm... well normal kitchens still make fired rice right ?

[radiant arch]

technically..

[shell fiber]

i'll think about it...maybe they should just cost a whole lot more science

[still frigate]

yes. And those granola bar things.

"Cereal bars"

[shell fiber]

yeah, 200 science unlock is really ridiculous

[radiant arch]

yeah, you need regular kitchens to run the ENS

actually, with stews available, i never considered fried rice or cereal bars a regular food. especially the bars are real bad on water consumption

and i always am short on rice at that point

[still frigate]

To be fair, I struggle with food more than anything else in this mod. Though, possibly, that is a core Timberborn problem for me. I think I struggle with food with any faction.

I have farms, farms, and more farms. Plus sawdust and mushrooms! And lots of chestnuts (mostly for beer --> strong alcohol)

[radiant arch]

i tend to let mostly large farms do the harvest, small farms only plant
also always add more farmland whenever something is fully harvested (small farm + zipline access for large farmer)
picture: two farms are enough for this small spot. the other two do cover zipline parts.

that one covers at least twice the area

• part of the lotus lake

[still frigate]

I never thought to use large farms for harvesting. I just use the assistant farmers.

[radiant arch]

large farmers: +20% working speed, +50% capacity, 10% movement

assistent farmers: +5% movement

[still frigate]

!@#$% I need to pay better attention and RFT~~M ~~S more.

[radiant arch]

assistents are a great way to cover early needs for sure

[radiant arch]

same 🙂

[still frigate]

The only large farmhouse I currently have is the one in the water.

[radiant arch]

that's around 2-3 workers used, isn't it?

maybe another for the rice

[still frigate]

It can't even help with the rice harvesting, though to be fair, I'm not using as much rice as I should be. Gotta fix that.

[radiant arch]

plenty rice..

you want plenty rice..

[still frigate]

Yep. So many uses.

[radiant arch]

if that's a double-farmer + assistent up there with the rice a single farmer + zipline might be more efficient actually

or a balloon

[still frigate]

There is a zipline just out of view.

[radiant arch]

likely too far. large farmhouses only cover a little range

that's 12+ tiles down to the rice from the zipline

from 17 tiles max a large farmhouse covers

with zipline updates i could essentially half my farmers to what it needed before haha

well, nothing wrong with having surplus farms either

[still frigate]

Currently I am not even using the rice I have grown. I've got to check my fermentation and rice balls for problems.

[radiant arch]

do you also spam industries as not to need to switch recipes?
mine mostly only have 1 or 2 workers, but they cover all they could 🙂

[still frigate]

I do tend to do that. I only recipe swap in the eaaliest stages.

How much value do you get out of pumpkins? I have had them unlocked for ages in this map and hadn't built any yet.

[radiant arch]

good question.. usually have 2k chips around.. which is likely around 200 actual food value?

[still frigate]

But they can also be eaten raw.

[radiant arch]

it's essential to have them for the deluxe stew

and i always want deluxe stew as early as can