Water Beaver Overhaul

[shell fiber]

was it already super tired ?

[still frigate]

Probably?

[shell fiber]

it's possible that their behavior commands them to go sleep in their bed at night, even if they are in a building that suspends the sleep need

but probably only happens if they are in the negative

[still frigate]

I have 8 contaminated beavers. 3 are in jail and staying there. The other two jails are empty.

[radiant arch]

might get negative sleep when they try to fetch the resistancy factors

[still frigate]

Down to 4 contaminated beavers. Lowest I've had since I built the jails.

So we can call this one a PEBKAC error and go on.

[nova crescent]

Automation and flywheels were fixed and work with v7.
Flywheels don't add anything to witepaws.
But you can always add it through your custom mod. 😅🤫

[still frigate]

I gave up doing any real modding years ago.

[nova crescent]

I have tried to venture into the modding.
But,
I can't model for shi*.
Code mods I can probably do but didn't find the energy to do it. And there are awesome people here who do an awesome job.

I stick to creating prefab files so I can use other mods buildings into custom fractions.

[still frigate]

I used to mod. Hell, I used to code. Officially that is what I got my degree in back in the mid 1990s but my career was on the admin side of IT.

[shell fiber]

i just realised some slightly problematic beaver behavior : when they get hungry of thirsty during their work day, they drop their job, run to grab one piece of food or drop of water, then go back to work. but they don't fill their need bar, they just... snack and go back.
they only eat their fill when work is finished, which is very inefficient

[still frigate]

That has been a problem with the game forever. You can really see it after a brought if you run all the way out of water.

[heavy lodge]

use the lunch break mod 😍

[shell fiber]

what's that

[still frigate]

That is what it fixes? I noticed it but never dug into it.

[shell fiber]

yeah i know post-drought thirst chaos has always been an issue

but i had foolishly thought that they would eat as much as they could when grabbing lunch

[heavy lodge]

It split the working hours, so beavers have some time for their needs

[shell fiber]

ooh

pretty smart

my other option was to give them a bigger belly

i had already changed the beaver's hunger and thirst to go from -2 to +2 instead or -3 to +1 to give them more room for actual work

[heavy lodge]

#🚀mod-users message

[shell fiber]

that was quite a piece of work 🙂

[still frigate]

That has a very pagoda feel.

[radiant arch]

The MapEditor Mod looks broken right now - missing some definitions in texture pack it seems (only that and editor mod enabled for testing)
InvalidOperationException: Failed to load asset at Materials/Lemon Bark

was so close to have my custom super small version after Janleon's maps proved too much for my old PC
would be lovely to place some ruins and veggies too (and have lemonade stands for gameplay)

[silver phoenix]

that design looks familiar 😉

i like the looks of those storages

[astral harbor]

Can I get beaver named after me? 😄

[astral harbor]

Will those remain watertight?

It could actually be usefull 😄

I can see it's at the point that I can jump into testing the U7.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Did you intend for people to build pit & ladder structures on top of the badwater pumps? Whether you did or not, I have. 😛

[woeful sun]

I think it's intended, but didn't you block the pump inlet?

I'm not sure if the inlet is purely cosmetic or not,

[still frigate]

The whole Most of the thing is on platforms. Badwater comes in from the bottom.

Or... that was my theory...

No, it is working.

The worker just wasn't there. Scared me.

I have become a harvester.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I may have found something for you!

Look at the pathing of the Harvester's Drying Tower. This one simply works! It does not need side access, but side access can be used anyway if you want.

If all of the tower upgrades had this same pathing, I think everything would be good with them and players wouldn't have to finagle their way into them.

[sullen cape]

Pardon the ping, but hi @storm gulch!

Lookin' good!

[storm gulch]

Oh hi there

[heavy lodge]

If you are here, take a look at this : #🚀mod-users message. Something you want for a long time 😛

[storm gulch]

Oh neat

I really do not spend enough time on this side of the internet, apparently

[heavy lodge]

Not enough reading all comments on your videos, also. I posted about this, some time ago 🤣

You can also check https://discord.com/channels/558398674389172225/1379728375396040806

[shell fiber]

It shouldn't work from the bottom 🤔

[shell fiber]

Yeah it should block the pump inlet

[woeful sun]

@JC: Do you want building sounds entirely disabled, or just only played once (in a row)

@storm gulch Try this mod to suppress duplicate building selection sounds. It should work on Update 6 & 7

[radiant arch]

question on the pit-and-ladder towers:

how to work around them not building from below?

still in early game - later on i usually went with side-doors and hanging platforms. but wondered if there was something more simple / early on with the new crane

[radiant arch]

that change to medical beds really did impact the early game! thank you!

[spring heath]

pumpkins are being a little... weird. they 'reserve' the space they want to occupy consistently (i.e. always 2x2 in the same direction) but are significantly less consistent in how they occupy space once planted. here, this results in a visual overlap of pumpkin with cabbages. I cannot plant cabbage in any of the empty tiles around the pumpkins

[shell fiber]

in the path section you have a "rappelling crane" that can be placed even inside existing buildings and allows to access outside of the volume of the pit and ladder tower

[shell fiber]

oh, that's new ! now they pivot around the (1;1) voxel, no longer the model's center. i'll fix that soon probably

[radiant arch]

oh, that's neat! thanks!
was too dumb to figure you can place it inside the one i wanted to build..
only ever tried to place it on top. which obviously never works.

a hint in the description on how to use it might be helpful?
like "can be placed inside pit-and-ladder to build high towers"?

[shell fiber]

it also works on top, if you place it on top of the last completed piece, but that means inside of the next one 😅

[shell fiber]

i'll try to remember, can't really mod right now, i broke my modding setup trying to fix the shaders 😬

[radiant arch]

oh no! good luck fixing that!

[radiant arch]

those custom names are genius haha:

todor alin is the mechanic
bobingabout chief alchemist
normanr a farmer
ants a hauler
lapan just got promoted from badwater to regular water pump

thanks for adding me too!

[woeful sun]

Do I want to be a farmer? oh well.

[sullen cape]

Wow wait I haven't seen my name yet! Uh thank you ❤️

[prisma merlin]

Hi, has anyone had trouble with launching the latest version of timberborn with all of the mods for whitepaw?
I'm crashing from only the mods that run the whitepaw faction on this version of timberborn

[radiant arch]

the dependency lists are not up to date..

pantry mod will break and is not needed

took me a few tries too to get it satisfied by first adding what was said to be missing (but not mentioned on mod.io / steam) and after removing pantry mod

[prisma merlin]

Hmm, pantry off does load timberborn but then starting a new game doesn't show the whitepaws icon as available
Is there somewhere I can check for the latest up to date dependencies?

[sullen cape]

You're a farmer in my game grauschweif 😂

[radiant arch]

the mod list in-game should show a yellow warning mark with missing dependencies

whitepaws must be unlocked by playing any other faction first and achieving some minor well-being (1?)

if you not yet had that

[prisma merlin]

yah, it's only pantry for me, I might have not yet done it on U7 I think that's why

[radiant arch]

hope that works!

[prisma merlin]

Thx, I'll try later

[spring heath]

The absolute bare-bones list is (sadly I can't pin messages here so maybe screenshot/copy it for later reference?):

Harmony
Mod Settings
TimberCommons
TimberApi
Bobibgabout's Script Pack
KnatteMaterials
1x1x2 Storage
Bobingabout's Housing Optimize
Lapantouflemagics Texture Pack
Ladder
Logstairs
Staircase
Tool Finder
MoreGroups
Whitepaws Faction U7

(in roughly my load order. just, similarly to what @still frigate has said previously, have Harmony, Mod Settings, TimberCommons and TimberApi at the top and Whitepaws right at the bottom)

for note to others, interestingly, when I disabled Bob's script pack to test if it's needed, I was able to load a new WP game but mod manager has flagged it as a missing dependency. so whatever it does isn't needed to load a game but I imaging it messes with something, best guess being housing optimise

[radiant arch]

tool finder and housing is optional (yet very useful), isn't it?
if you list other helpful mods "unstuckify" is great too later in game / playing with districts

[spring heath]

iirc both yellow-triangled when disabled

[radiant arch]

bug: beavers can become stuck behind trees when using the crane (my lumberjack starved to death this way - but could not die since stuck)

this does only seem to happen when there are walls / houses around the tile might not need walls on either side.. might be only some trees though (brambles seem to work fine for example)
did happen with everblossom tree - and did happen right next day again

[glass gull]

I love the rappeling crane

[still frigate]

@shell fiber What are the pollution limits before the different pumps stop working?

The maps I make almost never have a pure water source available to the surface. Everything is mixed underground and the player has to setup pumps to filter and provide clean water. In the attached example that 26% contamination is the cleanest water source on the surface.

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Lumberjacks are not cutting banana.

[woeful sun]

I think the pump if as efficient as the not-contamination level. So 26% contamination, the pump would be 74% efficient?

(I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's how it works)

[still frigate]

In a vanilla game that is true. But I have had messages of "disabled by badwater" when the water is mixed in White Paw games.

[woeful sun]

ahh, quite possible

[still frigate]

Were banana trees meant to be a wood source? I thought they were food only and had to be harvested/picked.

I am incorrect.

They say gathered by loggers.
One thing I did notice is that your lumberjack was full (20/20) of wood.

I'm building one of my own right now to test.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Is the overlap intended? Should I be able to build my power shafts that close? Also it is clipping against/into the ground. I assume the hitbox is 3x3 but it looks like the widest part of this is 5x5.

[still frigate]

A dirty beaver can spend all day getting clean in the irrigation pool. This guy has been there since before night started the previous day.

[shell fiber]

Was he really really dirty?

Or is he stuck?

[still frigate]

He stayed until the clean fur bar was fully filled then left. But it seems to fill very slowly in those as compared to the river bath. Hard to actually compare them though.

[still frigate]

If you tell me it is all in my head, I'll beleive you. 😛

[still frigate]

@shell fiber @nova crescent I have verified that bananas are not getting harvested.

[nova crescent]

The actual banana is picked by lumberjack not harvestor. There is no wood product from banana tree. Only banana is the product if you cut it.

[still frigate]

Yeah, that surprised me.

[nova crescent]

Me also. 😂 I was searching if I did anything wrong there.

[still frigate]

I've had bananas before, but I probably imported them from the jungle beavers or something.

[still frigate]

???

Okay, I finally made hauling bots for the first time, but they are out of fuel. I do not see biofuel in any building or even in liquid storage.

@shell fiber

[shell fiber]

Oh hmm... Guess I have to fix a few things

[sullen cape]

The shower used to take ages to wash the beaver lol

So I'd rely on River baths

[radiant arch]

once had a beaver stay over 300 years in the shower. they never even realised they died!

since learned not to build showers next to big sawmills

[radiant arch]

there seem to be some issues with the base of the Bath Tower:

• it shows before being build (only the top path progresses visually, the base is ready asap)
• it does not properly vanish with visual layers - flowing above what should be visible

[radiant arch]

issue with balloon: there's a beaver sitting inside even when there's no worker (or in this case even no path)

[sullen cape]

Are they permanent like the old Choo Choo ones?

[radiant arch]

not sure if i remember U6 correctly, but i assumed it flew back than (does not now) and the beaver was only in when occupied

might have been permanent too?

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Is florist supposed to be self-stackable?

[shell fiber]

I think that's normal but I could improve that with the progress visualisation system

[shell fiber]

Hmm... Not sure what to do about that 🤔

[shell fiber]

No the beaver has always been purely cosmetic

It's not an actual beaver either

[shell fiber]

Not entirely sure. I think you need a spacer

[nova crescent]

yeah spacer works.

[radiant arch]

you can actually build a kind of stairs with the florist - they stack one tile to the front

having them stack would be kinda cool - being able to build a wall of florists, with cheap walkable part even

[glass gull]

Could it be possible that the glowing fluid is made to be bright, like spicy sodas?

[radiant arch]

weird bug: the deep water pump upgrade can't be finished if the tile front-between the two doors is occupied (had a tree there. fixed asap when tree was removed..)

could re-mark the tile for tree planting after with no issue

[spring heath]

I think this was mentioned some time ago but in case you've forgotten... large farmhouse not connecting to pit-and-ladder, in conflict with building description (I tested all 16 base tiles)

in a similar vein, the tree nursey does connect, just... not where I expected. this is probably caused by the same culprit as the wandering pumpkins if I had to guess, but I'm no modder/programmer/coder

[spring heath]

LF will, as I believe mentioned previously, attach to standard ladder surrounded by ground and/or platforms (and presumably anything else Solid)

[still frigate]

@crisp parcel Your "Beavers Cave Cliff" map with WhitePaws presents a few interstig challgenes. This was one for instance. Had to do a lot of dynamite to make a hole deep enough for this. (The top is at lvl 35.) The top of the hole is lvl 40.

[crisp parcel]

def. something i was not thinking about 😄 haha very cool that you still made it possible. well done
its would prob. be no problem when starting at the bottom with flex start or repositioning of the start posi in the map editor.

[still frigate]

The lower one is harder. I was going to do it first but I had built stuff on the platform about it that I would have to destroy.

I have opened up the two in the cave and will see what kind of space is above them next... after I clear out all the brambles and scrap metal, but it looks doable.

[crisp parcel]

ah ok.. good to know the metall cave 😄 lets go

[still frigate]

With this population my main PC is starting to struggle. But then its CPU is a few generations old even if it does have a more modern video card.

[still frigate]

The lower one got the nearby badwater blasted open and capped for some extra power until I get the abyssal power going. If I were to go up on this one I think I'd lose at least one hydroponic farm and have to reroute and transit some. But not impossible by any stretch.

Well... maybe it if destabilized too much ground. Now I need to try it to find out.

[crisp parcel]

that looks really cool with the White Paws

[still frigate]

They have a great look.

And so much unique architecture.

[woeful sun]

wooo, nice to hear (heh) this working on JC's videos

[midnight escarp]

My ears thank you

[still frigate]

bug: nothing can be built atop the giant pillars.

Aqueducts may not be working either as I can't attach one to pillars to test.

related: I noticed I couldn't build anything atop the hydroponic farms even though they say they are solid.

[shell fiber]

there's been a lot of bug reports lately, i'm probably going to forget a good half of them, don't hesitate to remind me

but my modding tools are maybe fixed

[sullen cape]

Good work 🙂

[small depot]

Could you make an "under water path" and have the settings of the tubeways?

[still frigate]

Oh. I hope so. I was following along to some of your frustration in one of the other channels and it reminded me that I'm glad I'm not trying to mod this game.

[radiant arch]

there is some issue with the Hanging Squewer Platform

when placed sometimes they not survive reloads - edit normal squewers usually work instead (but require cheating to place)

here such an example - can place it without cheating and all. save&load and it's gone. very sad if something expensive was build on top

[sullen cape]

Poor Bob

[shell fiber]

oh no ! 😅

[radiant arch]

sequoia suffer from same random planting pattern as pumpkins do - effects are purely visual, function is same as before

not that i mind having two in one space, but it's a little weird (curiously they can reach out of map too)

this is kinda cool - they not even need that 1m of soil

[radiant arch]

what is the most common use for the Nerdy Attic storage?

my choices always come down to carnivorous larvaes versus nuclear fuel. but maybe there was actually useful options?

[radiant arch]

an easy one: spelling mistake(?) on parfait label in assembly line

[sullen cape]

Oh gosh thanks Lapan!
I normally go by just "Ants" by itself though, maybe I'll change my Discord display name to it

[stiff flint]

where else would you put comic books?

[radiant arch]

actually that's a really nice idea! never stored them anywhere yet!

thanks

[radiant arch]

just realised how insane batteries must be on that high map

[shell fiber]

okay, i think i fixed the rocket, now what were the most urgent things to fix ? the pumpkin visual issue ?

[heavy lodge]

YA,and the mpreader, too ...

[radiant arch]

pumpkin + sequoia (should be similar)

mapreader too, yeah

meanwhile figured out how to use the forest observation tower in U7

[radiant arch]

oh, regarding deadly shower traps: seems like a feature
every shower overlapping advanced sawmill range will kill beavers

technically it's self-limiting as the beavers can not die while in shower - they just block it forever and only die if forced out (either by lack of water or pausing).

oops.. happens to irrigation towers too.. this sucks.. it only overlaps only tile in the back..

hmm

well-being and productivity suddenly go way up again..

this might be a somewhat serious problem.. - trapped beavers still block the workplace with no productivity
certainly hard to notice during play.
no idea if anyone else is weird enough to accidentally overlap them though..

[shell fiber]

well i probably should just remove the dust aura from the sawmill

it's not an important feature

[spring heath]

Even if it was a smaller radius or something that only affected workers/residents? I don’t know if that possible but could you have it trigger Dirty Beaver randomly for workers, as with badwater pump triggering Contamination?

[radiant arch]

smaller radius has the issues that U7 does apply it to all layers (mine was far below the sawmill actually hence i overlooked it)

random rates would be cool, yeah. like with illness

[shell fiber]

this is really a mindfuck 😑

especially since in editor it's like this :

there's somethign that forcefully puts back the elements at 0,0

[radiant arch]

i like it by now. especially the weird trees.

[shell fiber]

goddammit i was not compiling the right mod 😑

what a waste of tiime

[shell fiber]

progress... maybe 🤔

at least the pivot seems somewhat correct

btu that's gonna be it for tonight, GN !

[shell fiber]

hmm... well nothing works further than that...i guess the world would keep spinning with 1x1 pumpkins and 1x1 giant bamboos, but the sequoias... 🤔

[radiant arch]

bug: log bridges on platforms can vanish after reload

this might be related to overhang platforms as base or shared root tile (both cases vanished for me)

this was once a beautiful lido above some log bridges - now it's gravity defying floating ground..

[shell fiber]

ooh, giant logs 🤔
i guess i didn't fix those indeed 😰

but honestly i'm starting to feel that this mod was just fine in U6 😑
all this junk to deal with is wearing me down

[radiant arch]

it was fine in U6. it is almost back there again!

if giant logs not work in this case i'm fine to use a super irrigation tower on some single floaty ground
just realised it's much more cost-efficient than the lido + clean fur.

[shell fiber]

well the fact that i prefer to do actual work rather than fixing the mod is rather telling i'm afraid 😑
the giant logs should be easy enough to fix, what i'm having trouble now is the plants

[radiant arch]

a little break to get some actual work in sounds nice

please stay safe and cool

[glass gull]

Can the beaver jails be pausable? I like having some as backup for the washing machine, but it kinda sucks when beavers sit around in them instead of using the hightech solution

[shell fiber]

not really something i can do

[glass gull]

ah, okay. Yeah, ig they're quite a departure from the usual building mechanics at all

[shell fiber]

well it's more that it's a "recreation" building that consumes nothing, and the pausing option depends on having an inventory or something

[glass gull]

So if it consumed 0.01 water per day and had 5 water storage it'd have a pause button?

[shell fiber]

what was there important that needed fixing ? i had no choice but to make the pumpkins 1x1 (as well as the giant bamboo)

[glass gull]

Wait, that behavior was a problem? I was just vibing with them appearing wherever

[shell fiber]

well yes, but for 99% of people that would just be weird an inconsistant

also means that the jails won't work unless you have haulers

[shell fiber]

well the visual not matching their occupied volume is kind of awkward

on that note the sequoia is fixed by no longer having random rotation

i still have no idea why the balloon's animation no longer work

but i can probably fix that in blender

i fixed the bottom connection of the large farmhouse and tree nursery

⚠️ ah, there was something going on with bananas

[glass gull]

Unrelated but I love water cannons :D
I have 3 getting clean water out of a natural reservoir into my main body of water, and then one more in that main body of water that deals with that bit of badwater that goes through before the appropriate floodgates open, which stop badtides from entering the main reservoir downstream.

A more complex, later solution is that I'll use a tunnel to completely flush badwater out the bottom of the reservoir

(I use automation mod to manage floodgates, since I can't be bothered)

[shell fiber]

Why the weird tunnel shape ?

[glass gull]

each of the "tendrils" will flow directly into a solid side of the floodgate

since iirc you can't make the floodgate's top flush with the ceiling

Yeah

[shell fiber]

oh, i had noticed that too

i guess one that can seal completely a 2-high channel would indeed be nice

(assuming a roof)

i mean... i can just remove the third layer of this one to allow it to do that, but that's a bit lazy and visually... meh

but i feel extremely... maybe not lazy, but unmotivated at the thought of everything that needs to be fixed in U7

which i thought was near complete...

anyway, GN for today.

[glass gull]

I just think of this as a bit of challenge

Time to end hunger

[astral harbor]

Concerning baloons, will you modify them to have a single worker? 😄 So it resolves to hauling problem.

[glass gull]

They already do have a single worker

[glass gull]

.

[still frigate]

I will take the blame and responsibility for that.

I thought everything was fixed too. I am sorry I missed so much. Stuff like the pumpkins and trees I didn't think twice about. I just figured that was the way things were.

As for the problem with the giant poles, I never built anything that needed them in the mod. After one of the users told me about using aqueducts and the big nuclear reactor, I decided to build one. They just sort of skipped by my attention and all my testing before this.

You fixed so much already and this game is very much a joy to play with your mod. I am really, really sorry that you are feeling disillusioned.

[shell fiber]

oh, no don't worry, it's not because of you nor the number of bugs, it's just extremely frustrating to fight against unity / system changes after each update. and just at that time i got showered with a bunch of error reports that i could not do anything about since i was trying to fix unity.

but i feel better today 😊, iirc most issues were very late game stuff we couldn't possibly have seen that early. plus i also had to read scientific articles for my job that showed that we are barely scraping the surface...

the plants are always a huge chore to deal with but right now i went with the lazy option, i'll maybe improve it someday.

the only thing left i think is the balloons animation, the bananas, and there's something wrong with the giant pillars ?

[still frigate]

They can't be stacked or built on top of, so I couldn't try to make an aqueduct because it wouldn't attach..

The hydroponics also can't be built on even though they say they are solid.

[radiant arch]

would it be hard to fix the vanishing giant log bridges? they not seem to like being put on platforms. not survive reloads
edit placing log bridges with one end on solid ground, pillar or something not-platform seems to work. just platforms at both ends do not.

[radiant arch]

i could literally build log pillars and mega platforms and towers of hydroponics just fine yesterday

not tested aqueducts yet

hydroponics are as solid as alchemists and co - if they not have a flat solid surface they can't be build on

you could not stack them before either

but needed mega platforms or some other form of support

aqueducts works for me too

[shell fiber]

seems to work just fine for me 🤔

[shell fiber]

should be fixed on my side

[still frigate]

I could not do that in my game.

So, if I am the only one with this problem, then it must be one of the other mods I am running.

Apologies for wasting your time.

[shell fiber]

no worries 😊

[shell fiber]

this survived save/load on my side (next update for you)

[still frigate]

If I ever figure out what caused it, I will come back and let you know.

[radiant arch]

that use case worked. what's broken is reloading when placing them on platforms

[shell fiber]

placing giant logs on platforms or log bridges ? 🤔

[radiant arch]

like this (please not get mad at me for floating drills drilling air holes..)

the log bridges on platforms each side

weirdly it works when either side is ground / pillar / power shaft - only two platforms not survive reloading

[shell fiber]

lol what is that 😅

[radiant arch]

i use them a lot - like for power shafts spanning long ranges too

[shell fiber]

i see, it has to do with how the game loads saves i think
but that should both be fixed next update

this survived too

not fond of it visually though

[radiant arch]

no more rebuilding after load 🎉

[glass gull]

the emergency discharge pipe is done, and it goes at the full throughput of six blocks of crossection. It empties the reservoir FAST

[radiant arch]

sadly my PC can't handle big maps so mine always look kinda crowded like this

[glass gull]

fitting waterbeavers on a small map is more impressive than just belching the whole colony out inefficiently like I do imo

[radiant arch]

it's a fun challenge at first

but the lack of productivity and waiting 10 cycles on something cause you can't fit another production line is kinda .. slow

and honestly: find workshops in here is a mess haha

hope my wonder is done soon.. should cover 92% of the map

[shell fiber]

that's weird, works just fine for me

[shell fiber]

damn, that's quite an achievement 😱

[shell fiber]

wait until the next update, otherwise it won't be visisble 🙂

[radiant arch]

i plan to bring population to 1k first (400 rn) and totally plan to launch the wonder multiple times. so need storage, "shelters" and bots i guess..
gonna be fun 🎆

[crisp parcel]

looks really cool

[shell fiber]

hmm... beavers are walking through the glass walls of the greenhouse 😑

soo... anything else that needs fixing ?

[radiant arch]

really minor: label of steel sawblades in foundry is broken

[shell fiber]

for now i made the floodgate dam be 2 tall as a building, which means you can seal off completely a river in a cavern

also it won't be possible anymore to plant bananas in unfinished greenhouses

[shell fiber]

not good ?

[glass gull]

Nah, I think it's fine. It's just that I kinda like having such weird limitations as a floodgate needing weird tunnels to seal a pipe. The basegame floodgates can't seal tunnels without an upwards protrusion either

[shell fiber]

ah, true

yes now that you say it i think is should still be manageable even without this adaptation 🤔

[glass gull]

Though they fill the whole space under the protrusion... maybe reducing the hitbox to be 3x3x2 with a +shaped protrusion on the third layer?

[shell fiber]

wansn't it already like that 🤔

[glass gull]

uhhh

idk

[shell fiber]

maybe the corners were unnecessarily occupied 🤔

well yes that's clearly how it should be

[glass gull]

Yeah, corners are occupied in the my current version

[shell fiber]

i see...

[shell fiber]

hmm... i found a fix for the side platforms being difficult to place, but unfortunately... that would break the existing ones

i guess it's better to duplicate and deprecate the old ones

[radiant arch]

please duplicate&deprecate

[shell fiber]

holy crap i just tried my vaccum cleaner

this machine is the shittiest thing in existence, it's almost hilarious how amazingly bad the design is

this trash sucks air in, sure, but that also means it also vents air our somewhere.

if this was designed by an non-retared individual, the air vents would be aimed... i guess, back or up or something

but no-no-no, not this one

if blows air SIDEWAY, and with FORCE

like you try to vaccum your room, well you better tidy it up before, because papers, dust, hairs, plastic wrappings, everything is going to be absolutely blown away !

LITTERALLY

every piece of dirt i see keeps moving ! who came up with that junk ? 🤣

and this has like 5 stars on amazon ? they definitely bought those reviews.

[brave ivy]

U7 has an emberpelts version of frog statue.

I think the first version, the frog was on fire. I think knatte added a little fire pit instead.

Frog statue.
Emberpelts: "We're supposed to set it on fire, right?"

[glass gull]

time to duct-tape on some modified air vents fashioned from some paper

[shell fiber]

i thought about this, but it seems this junk is going to overheat.
in its defense, i think it has quite a ridiculous amount of power for its size. it's pretty clear that the air flow is used to cool down the motor.

[shell fiber]

oh, turns out the greenhouses were fine, there was an error in the entrances coordinates

uploading an update soon, first on mod.io

just so that someone can quickly crash-test it

[shell fiber]

@heavy lodge i promise i didn't forget about the more plants mod 😅

[radiant arch]

it did not crash 🎉

still need to replace all my giant log bridges again 🙃

actually: bug..

can't place my log bridges at all anymore 😭

was it forbidden to anchor them on overhang platforms now?? (that's what's broken it seems)

[glass gull]

overhang platforms got modified, Lapan probably changed the spaces of a voxel that they occupy

[radiant arch]

same with two log bridges sharing the same 'root' platform - broken now (impossible to place)

[radiant arch]

looks like it.. neither new overhangs nor old (deprecated) work for this now..

[glass gull]

that probably means the log bridges got changed

[radiant arch]

regular platforms seem to work as anchor

[glass gull]

since the deprecated overhangs were supposed to be left alone

[radiant arch]

the question is: was the result intended? (bridge + overhang = not working) or is this a new issue resulting from the fix?

should at least mention the update is breaking for this

sadly my save is not playable with the new version

[shell fiber]

uuh, no, not on overhangs, otherwise overhangs could chain on each other indefinitely

sorry 😅

but on normal vertical platforms, it should be okay

[radiant arch]

so it's not gonna get fixed to work with overhangs again? (=that was intended in the first place)?

[shell fiber]

yeah, if they don't occupy any space on their support, then they don't "touch" the bottom of the map (basically free-floating objects) which means that the save loading process will miss them entirely, hence poof

[shell fiber]

no, that was not intended

what allowed it was also what caused the giant log bridges to disappear

[radiant arch]

too bad

might be useful to put that in the description of log bridges haha

[shell fiber]

well the best i can tell you is to roll back, raze what doesn't make sense anymore, and rebuild with the new rules

[radiant arch]

yeah, will do that

[shell fiber]

glad nothing exploded at least

i'll upload it to steam

[radiant arch]

didn't see anything else

[shell fiber]

well if it doesn't instantly crash, that's all i need

[radiant arch]

those overhang-bridge-combinations looked so elegant ..

[shell fiber]

sorry... 😓

if you really want to you can probably fake it by placing a regular plaform on the overhang, and on top of that put the giant log 🤔

visually should be quite similar

okay, good for today

push an update and go to sleep

any professionnal coder would definitely say that's asking for a catastrophe

GN ! 😊

[radiant arch]

good night

thanks for the many fixes

[radiant arch]

note: log bridges share the "multiple .. cannot share the same support"

-> can't overlap support tile

-> can't place log bridges on log bridges anymore!! (so no more cheap loggy platforms)

there's two greenhouses now (one solid and one not solid) -> which is the correct?

[woeful sun]

JC said that Billboards were deprecated? Is that right for U6?

There is a U6 version on mod.io, not sure if it still works (in 0.6.9.4),

[shell fiber]

i'm not even sure i ever finished updating the mod to U6

but the mod is not very bug prone

[shell fiber]

one of them should be devlocked 🤔

[glass gull]

They aren't quite up to date. Some stuff on the tech tree billboard is wrong, and the news is for U5 iirc

[shell fiber]

fixing the mod editor now

does anyone know of any map made with floating islands ? except my showcase ofc

[radiant arch]

lapan? how to un-maimed a beaver??

maybe running the giant sawblade right through the ladder had some minor risks.. yet.. first time seeing a maimed beaver..

[glass gull]

In the animation for the clockwork farm I think one of the gears should have its rotation flipped, cuz rn they grind

[radiant arch]

oh no! the newsboard is blank and no longer giving any well-being! 😢

[glass gull]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[radiant arch]

exactly!

only an empty frame left of its glory..

oh wait.. the well-being is still there haha. just had the text hidden 🤫

[midnight escarp]

does this mean the Napoleon billboard is gone now too? 😦

[radiant arch]

which one was that?

[midnight escarp]

I only saw it in JC's videos, I can't remember the name

[radiant arch]

currently only news and tech tree boards and either is just an empty frame

[woeful sun]

I think Napoleon came with the Billboards mod, not Water Beavers

[midnight escarp]

Yeah, that's what I thought was being discussed. Sorry if it wasn't

[woeful sun]

Water Beavers has only 2 billboards, News and Tech Tree

but in U5 (maybe U6) it had the Billboards mod as a recommended dependency

[radiant arch]

oh, never knew of that one!

[radiant arch]

found an issue with the healing thingies: there's no storage for them!

in my case i had another district access them by district crossing - to not replicate the clinic there

and that made it unavailable in the original district, as all my 20+ stock went away to the crossing

this is tricky with how slowly frost balms are produced

a storage would balance them evenly

[brave ivy]

So many issues... Just get 1 tiny value or checkbox wrong and it all breaks

I presume you got the project and all the materials up to date and working?

[radiant arch]

randomly getting "out of fuel" from my bots - did something change for them?

[shell fiber]

oh, yeah, it's mostly back online now, the placeholder materials are still ugly, but nothing to do about that

also, apologies to everyone, i think someone had complained about the power shafts a while ago and i probably missed your point. yes we are defnitely missing the horizontal to vertical turn shaft

without that there's basically now way to go vertical, untill the universal shaft is unlocked

i'll check those bots issue and the billboards

[radiant arch]

oh, balloons and airships can be worked by bots too? that's nice!

any plans to allow bots on regular crossings too?

[shell fiber]

wasn't that already the case ?

[radiant arch]

sadly not possible right now, no

[sullen cape]

Hello farmer Lapan!
-# Let's hope I don't kill my beavers this time, my own beaver died of hunger or thirst whoops

[sullen cape]

🤣

I never saw that message from my Trebuchet in my U5 playthrough mind you

[radiant arch]

only my second time seeing it too. yet, as i was certain you landed safely i had to share 🙂

[sullen cape]

Yeah it was a fun ride lol! 😂

[radiant arch]

for all not involved: this trebuchet shot required skill - below the arm, above the tree, right beside the foundry tower and far far away

oh, and random kit lapan in the bath haha

[shell fiber]

i can confirm that adjusting the floodgate dam is indeed not necessary 🙂

[shell fiber]

hmm... who would have thought ? turns out suddenly releasing several cubic meters of pressurised bad water is...messy.

[shell fiber]

pushing update now

fixes the bots, adds the missing pieces of shaft

allows bots in the normal district crossing

and i don't remmember what else

[still frigate]

@shell fiber

While I never figured out the problem, it is gone. So 1 or more of the following:

1. I just needed to restart the game
2. it was fixed in 5.1.6 or 5.1.7
3. PEBKAC error

[glossy hornet]

yeah gonna be real this thing has been crashing on trying to make a new settlement every time I try to I even unsubscribed from all of my mods (which are only the dependencies) and put them back on a couple times to no effect

[still frigate]

New game created without problem.

If you have included the old dependency of "Pantry" you should remove it. Beyond that, without logs, people would have pretty much no clue to be able to help you.

[still frigate]

possible bug: mech drills inventory issue

These are right beside a nearly empty pile and have spent at least two days with the iron untouched.

EDIT: I clicked the priority button and the inventory started going down. Assume PEBKAC error; I may simply not have enough haulers.

[shell fiber]

You can always pause the drill to force empty it, but beavers who need iron ore will come take it as needed. It it clogs you're probably not consuming enough.
Sale for dirt, beavers song gold panning will come get it

[shell fiber]

You can send us you crash log so we can look into it

[glossy hornet]

for whatever reason the crash log isn't even going into the error report folder, like the last one I have is from may wtf

yeah it's not making a crash log

best I got is this

[sullen cape]

Aww, whoops he looks so sad lol 😅

[woeful sun]

ohh, that's not a good sign

[glossy hornet]

what's it mean?

[woeful sun]

Google AI says 0xc0000005: "can stem from various issues, including faulty RAM, outdated drivers, malware, or corrupted system files"

[glossy hornet]

ram's kinda old but it's not been giving me problems
outdated drivers possibly but that's because I got a 1050ti in this thing it's ancient
malways/corrupted files probably not

[woeful sun]

Corrupted file is quick and easy to rule out, try verifying game files

[glossy hornet]

doin it rn

[woeful sun]

if you can post the latest Player.log, it might have useful information too

[glossy hornet]

where do I find that

[woeful sun]

see https://timberborn.featureupvote.com/suggestions/183503/how-to-send-us-logs-and-save-files-and-why-you-should-do-that

[glossy hornet]

bon appetit

and another one from after the verify game files (crashed again)

still no error report btw :/ like wtf

[woeful sun]

does it crash immediately, or after some time?

and this is with a new empty game,

does it work without any mods loaded?

I see you had BepInEx installed at some point, could you remove F:\Steam\steamapps\common\Timberborn\WINHTTP.dll (or move it somewhere else). It comes with BepInEx, but isn't needed.

I don't think it's the cause, but worth cleaning up, in case it's the issue (I don't think it is)

[heavy lodge]

@glossy hornet , try to disable all what you can disable, including discord and browsers. I assume not enough memory ,,,

[woeful sun]

Also there might be Crash reports in %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\Temp\Mechanistry\Timberborn\Crashes

[glossy hornet]

Y’kno what I was just about to go to sleep but I’ll check that folder real quick

[woeful sun]

I don't have that folder, so it may not exist,

[glossy hornet]

THERE WE GO

[glossy hornet]

crashes when attempting to load a new settlement, like after map and difficulty and whatever's selected. takes like 30 seconds before crashing

[heavy lodge]

But, is with WhitePaws, a huge mod. More likely not enough free memory.

[woeful sun]

That shouldn't produce that sort of crash,

the stack trace in the two logs was different,

but both were "bad" in the sense that it wasn't the game code that was crashing

[glossy hornet]

ok welp now it just decides to finaly load normally

only thing I did differently was that winhttp was deleted

[glossy hornet]

def pushing it but I still have some free

[woeful sun]

I can't get windbg to show anything helpful from the crash.dmp 😕

[shell fiber]

never saw that one before, seems like a "not enough memory" or something

[shell fiber]

just for the sake of covering the basics, does the game work without mods ?
can you try to load up every mod required for the whitepaws faction but NOT the whitepaws faction ?
does it also crash on the smallest map possible ?

[sullen cape]

0xc0000005 or something is when a programs accesses memory it's not supposed to and gets closed by Windows

[woeful sun]

0xc0000005 (you had too many zeros) is an Access Violation and is very similar to a Segmentation Fault (SIGSEGV) in Posix

Candy: You should also try different graphics drivers. I see GeForce has "Game Ready Drivers Vs NVIDIA Studio Drivers". Also there are a couple of different versions available; it may be worth trying a couple to see if they give a different result.

[sullen cape]

I think windows calls it one IIRC

[radiant arch]

the steps while building the wonder look really cool imho

awesome job on those small details!

[radiant arch]

hmm.. was the wonder supposed to require 6m+ of water?
on U6 it was enough to fill right under the "building", now it would require to at least touch the building and basically go right under the door??

mine is complaining at 5.6m of water

[radiant arch]

the drill might occupy too much space above - could not place anything up to the top of the flags
4m blocked over the whole length of drill

visually assumed it 0.5 to 1m of free space above them and to be able to place overhangs for part of the length too.
at least would have assumed squewers to work at top (4m) and not only one level further even.

[radiant arch]

ehm.. ehem.. the wonder.. does launch.. on load haha
had me all 😱 and
till i realised it's just an animation haha

curiously it might not have opened up - animation and closed form overlapped i'd say (but not 100% sure here) edit happens every time game is loaded ❤️

[radiant arch]

regarding bounds: giant tanks do have space above - but do not allow for squewers either

[shell fiber]

that's likely the place for the "no drill bits" tarp

[radiant arch]

it's actually a whole layer above it too - works on top of the first part of the house, after jumps up 1m, while visually it's all free

not that it's important. just wanted to mention it.
(could fit my 3rd foundry into some other gap)

[radiant arch]

more bounds: the shower is able to get a tall platform on half, but not possible to cover with overhang squewer on the other half (despite both halfs having same height)

[shell fiber]

Hmm... I'm seriously considering ditching the balloon platform entirely 🤔

But I have to think about the implications

The main one seems that trade... Actually remains locked behind nénuphars 🤔

Although you could in theory make methane out of pretty much any green matter 🤔

Balloon items require tar, which is accessible with some science, an alchemist, and a screwpress

Do I could make trade available really early if I go in this direction 🤔

Which unlocks solar cells at a ridiculous price

Glass wouldn't be Farfetched

Giant sawblades but I don't see that as much of an issue

[radiant arch]

personally i really like them and find them a very unique and important part of this mod.
like it gives depth on the story level.

also really enjoy the timing it needs to unlock things:

• early on the tree nursery
• after fireflies for the abyss line + giant log bridges
• and till late game to safe for airships

even after they are fun and provide well-being

never using them for sawblades or solar cells tbh. not really worth it

or did you mean it as in "only the platform"? not the whole thing with balloons?

[still frigate]

I would have to agree.

There are many things that make this mod special. But for each player, those things may be vastly different.

I assume the animation is giving you hell?

[still frigate]

I never used solar cells beyond testing them. They were too expensive compareed to other options.

[nova crescent]

Same here. Engines are far better option for power needs.

[radiant arch]

the resource is used for airships too (10 cells per airship) - but as they require H² and a pilots license those are very late to build / use

[shell fiber]

ah, of course i meant removing the platforms, but keeping the balloons themselves

[sullen cape]

I mean, they look pretty

[shell fiber]

so there would still be trade of course, but you wouldn't have to deal with this clunky and confusing 5x5 building

i like the model too, but i find it confusing in its current state

[sullen cape]

Could you simplify the platforms?

[shell fiber]

i could

that's kind of the idea

but... i don't know

i like the idea of the balloon costing just the balloon and a minimal amount of wood

the balloon platform themselves look a bit artificial to me, the more i think about it

or maybe i could improve the functionnality one way or the other

ah, right, they also serve as decoration, but i don't know if people actually use them like that

i get the feeling that most people just pack them in a "balloon area" with 20 balloons in a grid 🤔

[radiant arch]

i use them all over the place (like a church in village) for the well-being actually

[sullen cape]

I think it's the lodges at the bottom that look unnatural, but I'm not sure

[shell fiber]

oh, actually good point

[radiant arch]

making the more like the eiffel tower (lodge under platform) might be cool too haha

[shell fiber]

those actually exist mostly to cover the power connection 😉

[shell fiber]

not a bad idea

[still frigate]

I do not.

[shell fiber]

although the lodge is effectively unnecessary

[radiant arch]

visually a "storage" part is cool imho

the crane too - best part of it

[shell fiber]

maybe i could actually reduce their ground occupancy, see it i can get something that integrate more seamlessly

[radiant arch]

like 3x3 accessed by rope in the middle?

[shell fiber]

but i'm interesting in unlocking trade from an earlier point in time 🤔

[shell fiber]

ahah, no rope climbing is hard

especially while carrying junk

[shell fiber]

i'm also reworking the utillity dam, since i made the beavers swim faster, it's more interesting to have a path that goes through the dam

without necessarily bothering with a pass-trhough lodge

hmm... that's ugly

[radiant arch]

currently at 6.89m deep and wonder still complaining about "needs deeper water" (it's almost flooded now)

[spring heath]

ooh I have recently found myself missing the utility dam

also I just did something mildly amusing by accident

cannot build this farmer upgrade because it's blocked from all sides. And I assume it cannot be built from inside the farmhouse/s

not a problem, I'll just move one of my little broken cart storages, but I did find it a little funny so worth sharing

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Thank you for fixing your advanced map stuff. I just made a very crazy map and am starting my first run on it with WhitePaws

Inspired by @crisp parcel's maps, but not nearly as refined.

[crisp parcel]

nice one

[shell fiber]

those don't rotate ?

whoat that seems complicated

[still frigate]

What don't rotate?

[shell fiber]

the ruins ? they are all oriented the same 😉

[still frigate]

That is just how they placed down. I didn't attemp to rotate them.

Like I said, not nearly as refined.

😉

Hrm.... lemon trees seem plantable but no building appears to turn them into something edible?

[heavy lodge]

Try to use mpreader.

[still frigate]

I assume you mean this?

[heavy lodge]

YA, it is not showing up with it ?

It's about lemonade stand

[still frigate]

The trees show up but no building seems to use the lemons and they aren't flagged as edible by themselves.

[radiant arch]

it's supposed to bring a lemonade stand with the map reader to convert lemons to drinks

[still frigate]

Search for lemon only finds the tree.

[heavy lodge]

and lemonade ?

[still frigate]

nothing

I would love it if this is another PEBKAC error but I don't think so.

I hope it is an easy fix.

[heavy lodge]

Try to change order for mpreader to be loaded after Whitepaws mod.

[still frigate]

??? really? Okay! brb...

[radiant arch]

lol... map reader just removed all plants for my save 🙂

actually.. there are no plants available loading it after whitepaw!!

[heavy lodge]

Just a minute, to make some tests

[radiant arch]

does the reader require the editor to be loaded too now?

[still frigate]

Same. Every plant and tree is gone from the map. 😛

[radiant arch]

so it really is important to load it first?

[still frigate]

I thought the editor would crash if it was active during regular play?

[heavy lodge]

It is crashing on normal game, is only for editor

[radiant arch]

sadly no lemonade stands.. 😭

[stiff flint]

i end up fiddling with the balloons more than i should to get them supplied properly. It doesn't feel like they work right until i've got hauler bots to get the supply chain sorted out

[radiant arch]

balloons now can fetch own demands, can't they?

putting a fermentation barrel right next to them, also a storage for their demand, can help a lot

[heavy lodge]

Cannot start a new game, game is crashing, I send the report to lapan.

[radiant arch]

did you disable pantry?

[still frigate]

Weird. I just started a new game.

[heavy lodge]

I don't have pantry mod

[radiant arch]

issue with the map editor map reader mod: it adds the floating island to the menu during game

[still frigate]

isnt it supposed to?

[heavy lodge]

guess it is ...

[radiant arch]

not during game play i'd say, no

[still frigate]

The editor shouldn't be active during regular play.

[radiant arch]

oh, sorry, the map reader of course

menu entry reads "map editor"

[still frigate]

There are two. An editor and a reader.

see this: #1070709592176197642 message

[heavy lodge]

I figure why game crashed, It's More bombs mod that crashes with Whitepaws

[radiant arch]

that's my new bot pilot for you:

[heavy lodge]

YA, with mpreader enabled, it's a desert land. No plants 😱

[still frigate]

But only after water beaves.

[heavy lodge]

But, with after 🤣

[radiant arch]

actually... regarding grapes..
they are the only thing that does not scale with processing

50 grapes = 50 grape juice = 50 wine

it needs real lot of them to fill all needs - as you need them twice (wine not satisfies grape need) - 0.5 wine + 0.5 grape (juice) per day per tile currently

tbh this is less of a problem given enough space (or dirt for multiple layers of grapes). but usually i do lack space most by this point

[heavy lodge]

Solved the issue with mpreader 🤣

[radiant arch]

how?

[still frigate]

Just in time! I'm editing my map because I failed playtest on easy. /laughs

[heavy lodge]

Replace the files in mpreader (0.7 folder) with those provided.

[radiant arch]

still load before whitepaws mod?

[heavy lodge]

After ! If you reset the loading order on the first screen, will load the correct order.

[still frigate]

resetting breaks too much.

Takes me 20 minutes to click and move one space at a time. /laughs

[shell fiber]

hmm... so the reader mod is completely messed up ? i'll take a look

[heavy lodge]

I fixed-it

[radiant arch]

that deletes all plants again haha
was putting the prefab directly into the version-0.7 the best idea?

[shell fiber]

right now we might be looking at this for the balloon plafroms

[still frigate]

works

[shell fiber]

the only land use would be for the 2x2 crane offload

but that is purely decorative

you'll have to connect up top on your own

[radiant arch]

as in build a ladder up?

[shell fiber]

if you want to, you can also use bridges

[still frigate]

what paths for those two files? There are multiple manifest.json files in the mod.

[radiant arch]

at this point in game: wouldn't including the ladder in the building be easier?

[heavy lodge]

Must be on the 0.7 folder, if your mod are from steam

[radiant arch]

replaced the manifest and put the other file beside it (there was no original) - both in 0.7 folder

and loaded map reader after whitepaw

and it removed all plants again

[heavy lodge]

Prefabgroup file must be in the Blueprints/PrefabGroups folder

[still frigate]

files replaced. testing...

[radiant arch]

it loaded. it has plants. it has no lemonade stand 🤔

[heavy lodge]

You sure is loaded after Whitepaws mod ?

[radiant arch]

yep

[still frigate]

Okay, restarting game. Had to finish some map edits first.

[radiant arch]

double checked the files too.

[still frigate]

My desktop may be old, but it is faster than this laptop. /laughs

Plants are there but no lemonaid stand.

I'll go ahead and to a reset order. <shudders>

[heavy lodge]

https://we.tl/t-QbXIpc5p6z You have all the content of version-07 folder.

[radiant arch]

your prefabgroups folder has 5 more files than the version from mod.io

[still frigate]

I'm running the steam version.

[heavy lodge]

I know, steam issue, but it has no effect. Those 5 files do nothing

[radiant arch]

other than that all file sizes and file names did match

trying to load it nonetheless

[still frigate]

I deleted my old v7 and have unzipped yours. Just waiitng on the laptop to laod it all.

[radiant arch]

fixed it

[still frigate]

same

[radiant arch]

now where to place a few of those.. hmm..

[heavy lodge]

That's not my issue 😜

[radiant arch]

thank you for the fix and help to apply it!

[still frigate]

I had to edit my map to make it more whitepaws compatible. I threw a bunch more rotated in all directions. 😛

[spring heath]

I just had a beaver die of hunger... with 3.5k food on the map 🤨

[still frigate]

And they weren't stranded?

Stuck on something, maybe? I have had that happen.

[spring heath]

his body disappeared (from the middle of the crop field) before I got a chance to look at the statuses

[still frigate]

Didn't show stranded but they wouldn't move.

[spring heath]

was between the farmhouses and hand of soup

so not stranded or stuck

just an idiot lol

[still frigate]

The gods are not always kind to all beavers. 😛

[spring heath]

maybe it was a bramble lumberjack (bramblejack?) with poor timing

almost hungry, started brambling, got hungrier, died en route to food

[radiant arch]

so glad the shower of death was fixed

[heavy lodge]

Maybe, shower can use badwater, if you choose so 🤣

[radiant arch]

found a sweet spot for my lemonade stand - hope one is enough for 600 beavers 🤔

[radiant arch]

placing them within range of the advanced sawmill did have curious effects too. my oldest beavers still showered at 384 years and not intended to stop. ever.

[shell fiber]

oh, okay i understand ! some peole had loading order issues

but i thought the .optionnal would force the thing to load after the thing in question 🤔

[still frigate]

For me, copting @heavy lodge 's zipped folder worked.

[shell fiber]

oh, you can definitely queeze a couple more 😅

[radiant arch]

will do for sure

just need to solve how to perfectly server 1k next, as space just ran out on 600 beavers

easily stocked up on 12k burgers and crisps - each, but such a hard time getting enough chestnuts in for the stews and cereal bars...

and not even sure how to solve the issues with grapes..

[shell fiber]

so what was the issue with grape ? production too weak ?

you need both for eating and making wine ?

[radiant arch]

not sure.. it's basically same space demand as chestnuts. but like twice - wine + grapes

and it's hard to fit them in late game (on small maps at least) when every space is basically used up already

not sure a 50x50 map (two layers) should be able to serve more than 500 beavers even. might be its limit – around 10 tiles per beaver to fully satisfy?

maybe i should just replace all berries and brambles with grapes and lemons and it's about fine. that would make for 2 or 3 GMOs each for 1k beavers i guess

yeah. likely it's just about replacing the unneeded things late game and it's fine

[heavy lodge]

Issue with optional in prefabgroup is that if a mod it isn't listed as optional in manifest,json (and is loaded before), the optional prefab isn't loaded due to main mod that contains that group is not loaded

[spring heath]

unsure what I've done wrong here, though I can't remember when I last placed a WPL in water

[radiant arch]

the door must not flood

[spring heath]

but it's a levee?

and the water is <1m deep

[radiant arch]

isn't it for all buildings that the door must not flood?

[spring heath]

no 😅

[spring heath]

weirldy, it is still functioning as a house?

I also have 3 'homeless' beavers but none without a house in the population tab, possibly related

I think beavers are stuck inside

just this guy is stuck of the 3 that 'live' there

not gaining sleep or shelter

I'll delete the lodge to free him

[shell fiber]

i'll increase the production of reciepes

btw, what is there that consumed grape juice, except wine ?

and the beavers themselves ofc

[radiant arch]

i don't know of anything that uses the juice other than wine tbh

[shell fiber]

that should not happen🤔

[shell fiber]

then maybe we can make wine directly by putting grapes in a barrel 🤔

traditionnally people just used to put it in the barrel, and have people step on it a lot

[radiant arch]

lessens the loss to thirsty beavers - otherwise a single press isn't much at all this late in game

[shell fiber]

i mean, realistically we could say that about berry juice too...

[spring heath]

workplace gives -5% movement speed bc they're so tired after stomping all day 😂

[radiant arch]

might colour their tails too ?

actually: do beaver stomp with tails rather?

[spring heath]

mostly joking tho unless wine barrels were their own thing as idk if you can set a debuff to a recipe rather than the whole job

[shell fiber]

that seems even more tiring 🤔

[shell fiber]

nope

i'm trying to load in the script that forces the nuclear reactor to output only clean water

well that crashed

[shell fiber]

ah, right, also... i like this design, but honestly it doesn't really make sense. the platfrom is just here to carry the balloon, but has no functionality in itself

[radiant arch]

could it serve as "landing pad" for the airship too?

i kinda like the way it gives some vertical spacer - makes sense if used within the settlement (for max well-being)

also currently not a big fan of the 'invisible' space constraints around the airship

always putting them up 2 or 3 levels either way to be able store things below and have path all around them

for the platform: a small house below the loading area would be cool imho (and a ladder)
kinda as 'warden' who secures the access and helps with the landing / loading? and inhabitants, cause there's never enough beavers
(pretty sure that not actually works in game logic though)

[shell fiber]

for now i'll double the production of juice / grape (20->20 is now 10->20)

[shell fiber]

probably not, at least now how it is right now

but i could make the airship sit on top of that, maybe. not sure

[heavy lodge]

BuildingPath mod if fixed now for WhitePaws

[shell fiber]

what do you mean ?

[shell fiber]

what does this do ?

[shell fiber]

in that case that's kind of the same as the current platform 🤔

[heavy lodge]

Path is not build instant, but gives to beavers on-it a speed boost

[radiant arch]

yeah. basically. just more compact with only one 2x2 building combinding all things: lodge, ladder and crane

[radiant arch]

it's challenging for me to see where i can run a path again front / back basically.
the safety margin for landing / starting makes total sense, just the visual indication is missing for me.

and how they are 1 space wider than the base, needing 2 tiles between them to place the next

the are pretty long too, not good to place one behind the other

balloons are technically too, but more compact and all. and the base fits the max bounds - base for airships seems basically random and visually not matches the actual demand (=non-pathable area) which confuses me every time

[shell fiber]

ah, you mean the base is 3x5 but the actual building is 6x10 ?

well they are meant to be stacked on mega plaftforms

[radiant arch]

5x10 building, yeah

[shell fiber]

ah, i could make the path buildable around yeah

[radiant arch]

that would help some i guess

[shell fiber]

that's the best i can do i think, we wouldn't want buildings being placed directly in front of it.

note that we already can if we really want to

[radiant arch]

i might or might not have put them into caves 😇

[shell fiber]

you monster 😅

regarding the balloons... if i don't make the beavers actually go up there, we can pretend they use the cranes to go up right ? if you can pull up crates, you can pull up beavers 🤔

which means the platforms needs a door, hence a house

now you're probably right, in order to reduce the land footprint, i should proabablly combine the crane offload area with the house roof

[radiant arch]

and a tiny ladder from inside the lodge to its roof?

[shell fiber]

fixed that

[shell fiber]

nto sure that fits visually

that also takes some "house space"

probably will be a tiny ladder on the side of the building

[radiant arch]

yeah.. i see.. knocking the beaver down again by a failed crane wouldn't be nice, would it?

[shell fiber]

but probably enough timberborn for today

[radiant arch]

GN, lapan

[still frigate]

@shell fiber is it possible to mod so as to make minimum workers in a building ZERO? There are so many times when a worker is totally wasted, especially early game, but you still want the housing working.

For now I settle on reducing worker priority to minimum (not shown).

((Apologies if I have asked this before and just forgotten.))

[woeful sun]

You can just set priority to lowest?

[still frigate]

Which is what I am doing right now.

(second "paragraph" above)

[woeful sun]

ahh, my bad for not reading everything,

[still frigate]

np

[woeful sun]

the code basically hardcodes decreaseButton.Enabled = workers > 1

[still frigate]

pity

But thank you.

[storm prawn]

Afaik, there are at least 2 mods that let you set desired workers to zero: Igorz' Automation and Luke's Configurable Worplace https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3469209119

[still frigate]

Nice! Thank you.

[still frigate]

I wasn't happy with my last map as a WhitePaws map. The water beavers need a lot more surface area than it had. In a regular game, dirt would fix any of those problems, but not in this overhaul. /laughs

images:

1. The garden pool (level 54). This is the goal of a happy beaver colony. Though it is currently overgrown with giant bamboo, there is a lot of land here waiting for cultivation.
2. The yellow temple (level 37) so named for the golden corn and sunny lemons that once grew here in abundance. Flooding has killed much of it, but a good engineer wont let that stop them.
3. The Underbelly of the Beast (level 14). With work and determination, there are the fundamental of a thriving colon here. Much of the water is contaminated and many of the needed resources are flooded. However, the ruins of some past settlements join the ruins of the long gone humans and provide what the colon will need to get started.

---

This map makes use of a top-down approach to water. At the lowest level there a negative water source, desperately trying to drain away the flood. What can't easily be seen is the invisible wall that prevents any water from going over the side except at the 4 corners of the map.

Of course the starting point is on the smallest piece of land, but it should be enough to get things going.

There are a lot of natural stairs in this map, especially in middle to top area. There is also a lot in flooded zone, but not enough. Beavers are gonna get sick.

I believe each of the 4 starting areas can be reached (with enough sacrifices) with early game technology. I paid careful attention to making sure there was a few possibilities that work with the log stairs.

credits:
@shell fiber for the White Paws. This mod changes the mechanics in ways that are wonderous and frustrating both. I can't get enough.

@crisp parcel for inspiration on what can be done with tall maps and ignoring the laws of physics.

@ionic swift for far more mods than I can count, including the all essential ascension mod.

And everyone else I may have forgotten. This old man's memory is not what it used to be.

notes:
This has not yet been play tested. But I am about to give it a try. If you wanna torture yourself with something that may not even work right, here it is.

[radiant arch]

so cool!

looks like the mean big sibling of my diorama upscaled map

top gives me some "let's put brambles + berries" vibes, just to annoy players to need and clean it up

[still frigate]

There is a hidden massive amount of brambles but not at the top.

Which I jsut realized that I didn't leave the player any reasonable way to get in there and clear it out. I figured a way I could do it with a stick of dynamite, but then there is a hole in it that can't really be fixed.

So I think I'll end up revising it slightly.

The other problem is contamination.

[radiant arch]

you can use cranes and fill up holes easily

[still frigate]

But with what? 😛

[radiant arch]

almost filled 100 tiles with ground

by cycle 100 haha

[still frigate]

At 1,000 dirt a chunk of gorund... not easy to accomplish.

[radiant arch]

early badwater is nasty, yeah

looks like a super slow start to build platforms

[still frigate]

I'm also running ebb and flow and weather, so it is monsoon season. 😛

A mess.

[radiant arch]

doesn't look fun to deal with floods, yeah

just realised i have not a single invalidated beaver - never more than 10 - despite 600+ beavers working deadly machines. late game is sooo efficient

[still frigate]

It is. Mid game starts to get better. One I can make scaffolding and ladders things get a lot easier.

But I'm gonna sign off and get some sleep and see if I can get rid of this thrice damnd headache.

Take care.

[radiant arch]

sure. good night

[radiant arch]

lemonade is grouped under "ingredients" confusingly

[radiant arch]

got another (very sad) issue with reloading a save...

"hanging squewer overhangs" are currently possible to join without end

but they not survive reload

actually it even removed the very first platform i tried to build on it -> thus breaking the chain -> thus removing a whole tower of hydroponics 😢

before + after save&load of a chain of hanging-squewer+platform - the hanging squewer not serves as "root" here it seems

[crisp parcel]

very cool well done job NoxBestia!

[shell fiber]

Nope, the game doesn't allows that, there's no option but to deprioritize the building

[shell fiber]

Intriguing🤔 I would need to look up what causes that...
Not that I endorse your crimes against gravity, just for science 😅

[radiant arch]

all for science 😇

thank you

[sullen cape]

I just had a thought, if we are adding people to the name list, what about Bobby or Mathilda? Or Jack, lol 😅

[shell fiber]

ooh, that's an idea !

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I noticed that the clay pit is very sensitive to flooding even if water just barely licks the doorway. Is this intended or simply got missed?

[shell fiber]

this is standard behavior, all buidlings get really upset when the "door" gets wet

[still frigate]

okay

[shell fiber]

i've made some to be more tolerant, but the clay pit should only have water in the bottom part

how does this look ?

i'll try to add some lights or something, like green / red

to indicate polarity

which won't make much sense on a flippable building but still

[still frigate]

Looks good. Is the bottom still decoration or does it have a function?

By the by, what is polarity for?

[still frigate]

Thank you. I have just done the first revision after a bit of a test run. This is mostly this is due to in-game effects of Moddable Weather, Ebb and Flow, and FreeFlow that were not adequately represented in the map editor.

• lowered the water level one block height
• increased corner drainage
• increased central bottom drain speed
• minor alterations to the landscape
• added more natural overhangs
• added some more natural stairs on the lower and middle tiers
• considering (but not yet implemented) @radiant arch's suggestion of brambles that would need cleared out of the top "paradise" level.

I'm open to suggestions, of course.

[still frigate]

I probably should have widened and deepened this arch, just for visual appeal.

[shell fiber]

i don't know, planes go blip-bloop red and green to indicate left and right so i guess beavers will have interpreted that wrong anyway 😅

also, looks pretty

but i think it can also guide ballons to the landing pad at night

[radiant arch]

it's all about that pretty lights imho

[still frigate]

I think my quetion was misunderstood. What does "polarity" do in the game?

[radiant arch]

same with the arch - i feel the itch to have a level of free under it..

[shell fiber]

in game that would be flipped / unfipped i guess but it doesn't do anything special

[still frigate]

What would be flipped? I never saw an effect in game but may have jsut been too oblivious.

[shell fiber]

not sure i'm following, but that building is not symmetrical, so it should be flippable

the balloons however may or may not be, they are symmetrical

[still frigate]

I don't think that was/is working, but now that I know what to look for I will test the next time I have a save open that has balloon platforms.

[radiant arch]

in-game either is flippable right now

balloons swap the colours and the two dots lights on the platform

[still frigate]

Yes, they are both flippable (with the default F key), but I didn't notice that polarity flipped anything.

"Notice" being the key word here. 😛

[still frigate]

Oh, I like that. BTW, not that it matters here, but traditionally red is port and green is starboard. 🙂

[radiant arch]

that's looking great!

[radiant arch]

can beavers even distinguish those??

[shell fiber]

well again, building is flippable 😅

[still frigate]

both colors are major visual colors. Blue is usually the hard one... but I'm not sure about them specifically. I would say yes because of how far apart on the visible spectrum they are one will appear significantly brighter than the other.

[shell fiber]

also : beavers 😉

[radiant arch]

yeah, beavers. those down at the lake certainly can not see me more than 2m away - lights or not haha

[still frigate]

That is why I said "not that it matters here" 🙂

I was just spouting trivia.

[radiant arch]

oh, just curious about them

[still frigate]

Beavers are very near-sighted and don't see as well underwater or at night as say an otter would. They also have 2-color vision rather than 3-color. Look at some older (and cheaper) color cartoons and you can see a 2-color process. Certain colors just can't be made in those.

[shell fiber]

i felt the color was a bit dim so i adjusted it a bit

also the legs can go litterally whereever

[still frigate]

I like that a lot.

[shell fiber]

they still require support but otherwise anything goes

[still frigate]

(( @shell fiber @cobalt wraith ))

Brambles and "Cut Dead Trees First" mod.

While Lapan was on his trip, I discovered that brambles are treated like dead trees and lumberjacks will drop everything to go after them. If the mod is set to expanded, it doesn't even wait for the player to designate a cutting area.

This goes for both wild and domesticated varieties of brambles.

Now that everyone is here, I finally remembered to bring this back up. 😅

[still frigate]

I just noticed that the sound effect for the P&L pile storage is the liquid sound. 😸

[cobalt wraith]

It’s still doing it?

[still frigate]

Yep. Sorry

[cobalt wraith]

Hmmm I’ll see about a more aggressive/explicit approach then for vanilla

[still frigate]

I was also wrong before. Birch are what is converted into brambles.

[shell fiber]

Oh that's pretty neat. So even without cut order, they will go and clear dead trees ?

[still frigate]

Yep! Loved this mod

And except for the brambles, it likes Water Beavers

[shell fiber]

Oh I see, your beavers will actually stop cutting wood and prefer dead brambles, even when only real trees are marked for cutting ? That could be annoying yes

[still frigate]

I have to play in the less-automatic mode. In this mode they prioritize dead tress over live but you have to set the cutting area.

[shell fiber]

Well in that case the priority can be
1 - dead plants marked for cutting
2 - live trees marked for cutting
3 - dead trees not marked for cutting

Not gonna lie if beavers could unconditionally go after dead trees that's a behaviour that I'd like

[still frigate]

It is nice.

I am doing a lot better this time than my first test of the map. I have a lot more stuff unlocked. Dropping the water level one block has made a world of difference.

I am also making more of an effort to keep my beavers out of badwater as much as possible, but exposure is unavoidable. Especially for my gatherers.

[radiant arch]

rather curious how your test goes!
like, is it truly manageable with this mod to regularly expose your beavers to contamination? what is the limit?

[still frigate]

WhitePaws seems just as susceptible to badwater as any beaver, unfortunately. However, they have better ways of recovering. Contamination jail is your friend until you unlock the beaver washer.

Although... I think @shell fiber outta up their immunity to badwater a bit. 😛 j/k

[radiant arch]

oh, right.. there was the beaver washer.. darn.. how do i fit that one now.. (still never used one for lack of space)

[still frigate]

I'm in monsoon right now, so some stuff is flooded. If you look at the metal on the left, that goes all the way down to level 0. That is also where the central drain is. So, by design, to get that metal beavers must face badwater.

In a vanilla game, I would simply have a bot-only district for that. Of course, with WhitePaws one does not have to gather metal from the map at all. Just setup enough mines and make your own. My mines are busy keeping me in dynamite right now.

This map only truly shines with the WhitePaws.

( primarily why I am discussing it here instead of #1176429989005111346 )

[radiant arch]

yeah, can see that

not yet sure i would play with those weather effects.. looks interesting, yet bothersome too

so bored of vanilla games being done in 15-20 cycles and just spamming whatever after with no real effect anymore

[still frigate]

Well, to be fair, I have disabled droughts and badtide for this playthrough. Actually, any WhitePaws game I run I disable badtide even when I had to do it from the starting difficulty.

[radiant arch]

many do i'd assume

[still frigate]

never disabled it with any of the other factions.

[radiant arch]

badtides at least - just a silly chore and grind at first

and no real difference from mid-game on

[still frigate]

They let you test your colony's survival, I guess.

[still frigate]

Yep. As soon as I have massive tanks of water, badtide becomes an annoyance at most in a vanilla game.

[radiant arch]

looks like separating the badwater is fairly late in your map? as in hard to reach the sources?

[still frigate]

The sources are all on the mid-level. And rememberr, except the corners, nothing goes off the side.

[radiant arch]

oh, right.. the magic drains.. wow 🙈

do tunnel actually drain too? just curious as that pillar in the pic seems diggable left and right?

[still frigate]

So these are my badwater sources. 4 of them. They are close enough to the corner that one might be able to redirect them, but then I have clean water sources in the way of that. 😛

And side the badwater exits in all four directions, with WhitePaws you just wanna cap it with reactors. But to do that you have to consume the ruins on top of each one and then dynamite yourself an opening.

I make my maps thinking of what annoys me, and what challenges I find fun. Then I make it as hard for me as I can and still be able to enjoy it.

[radiant arch]

you also can just plug it?

[still frigate]

Only if you have 16,000 dirt.

[radiant arch]

that's fairly little

can also plug using lodges

[still frigate]

I doubt it the way I have this setup. Maybe.

[radiant arch]

if they go 2x2x2 for the opening you can also fit in a medium bad water pump (no energy needed)

[still frigate]

From two side you have clean water sources in the way.

The other two sides are a massive drop.

[radiant arch]

oh, i like those 🙂

can't wait to play this after your testing

[still frigate]

I can upload the version I'm running right now, if you wanna risk it. Otherwise I'll keep testing until my beavers reach paradise at the top.

[radiant arch]

still got to finish my game so that's fine (only got 700 out of 1k beavers i want. also wonder is broken right now.. wanna launch that twice!)

[still frigate]

@shell fiber might you consider releasing your 5 overhanging platforms as a standalone mod that can be used with any of the factions? Or is that just too much of a hassle?

[still frigate]

I have breeched level 2 and am harvesting dead trees. /laughs

edit: Or I would be if lemon trees gave wood. I guess just delete them all.

[still frigate]

For actual beavers & buildings to usable land, this is probably one of the least efficient water farms I have ever setup.

[still frigate]

Too funny! One of my own traps got me!

This map is full of pathing puzzles. Often they require building something, doing some stuff, then deleting what you built and building something else in its place.

This one makes it look like a dead end. But to get past it, one simply needs to have unlocked ladders (and have the materials to build them). By the time I got to this, I had forgotten how I had planned on dealing with it. /laughs

(not shown to avoid spoilers)

@shell fiber I don't know if you planned this or it is a happy little accident, but tiered rice farming totally works!

[still frigate]

More edits needed. The top tier is broken. So much giant bamboo I can't see to build paths to let me get to the giant bamboo. /laughs

Plus I have 4 actual dead ends I didn't intend that I need to fix.

[still frigate]

@shell fiber Think this will crash when you have the annimaiton working? 😛

[shell fiber]

Side platforms were originally tobbert's mod, and they only work in whitepaws because I adapted every other building to them, so can't do

[still frigate]

Holy shit! Dude, that sounds like a major amount of work.

Thank you.

[shell fiber]

I don't know if I should be impressed or worried

[still frigate]

That can be an AND. 😉

Crap. I decided to try the "flip rotation" button while a balloon platform was still unbuilt. Caused an exception, but it froze so no report.

[still frigate]

I looked the mod up. Still not updated for U7.

Oh noes! I hit that hanging squewer bug. LMAO.

At least now I understand what was being talked about. /laughs

Ah well. Now is a good time to do my third map edit and start a new playtest. ... maybe after a nap. 😛

Had some NICE tiered rice production!

And as anyone can see, I obviously have a problem remembering to check up on my copy lodge and artist. But at least I could make 105 beaver washing machines! LMAO

[glossy hornet]

so my badwater pump isn't working, propeller's submerged so idk what the problem is

[still frigate]

Isn't that the power port right there?

[glossy hornet]

doesn't list a need for power

this is the small pump

[still frigate]

Ah. Then you are correct. Weird.

[glossy hornet]

worked before, think reloading a save was what broke it but unsure bc I run this game overnight sometimes

[still frigate]

Yeah, and I am sure when I playtested it I did so on a single game without reloading.

I always go from the platform to the big one in my regular games.

[glossy hornet]

want me to send you my save, see if it's broken on your end?

[still frigate]

Yeah, I can load it up.

[glossy hornet]

this is what u want right?

[still frigate]

Yep. loading now.

On my desktop, but it is still being a bit slow loading...

[glossy hornet]

it happens

[still frigate]

Okay, I am in. Snooping aorund.

Bug confirmed. I did all the usual tricks even in ||dev mode|| and it will not function. The worker is sitting in there. Even paused it and assigned a new worker. No luck. When I manually filled its inventory, your haulers were happy to come by and take it all away though. 🙂

[still frigate]

@shell fiber I loaded up the save and confirmed that it will not funciton.

[glossy hornet]

can dev mode check if it seems some sort of "status: submerged" flag not being checked?

[still frigate]

Not sure. never tried. One moment..

[glossy hornet]

also it might just be the fact the whole building isn't dunked in badwater

[midnight escarp]

Unlikely

[glossy hornet]

rip

[still frigate]

What matters is. I always (usually) have my entrance not in badwater.

[glossy hornet]

yeah bc like why would you, minimize contaminiation risk

might as well test though

[still frigate]

I deleted the stuff on top of it and it still wont work.

[glossy hornet]

rip

[still frigate]

Also dug under the propeller just to try that. Didn't change anything.

Hopefully Lapan can fidn the problem and patch it. 🙂

[glossy hornet]

here's hoping

[still frigate]

Sorry I couldn't do more.

[glossy hornet]

o, idea. drain the water the fill it up again

[glossy hornet]

all good all good, at least we got bug confirmation

[still frigate]

Reset the water simulation and let it refill. Still nothing.

[glossy hornet]

welp I'm outta ideas

[still frigate]

same

I do knwo the large one works after a reload, for what that helps ya.

But it does need power.

[glossy hornet]

yeah power's a bit too screwy for me to fully wire atm

also, gonna be real, not a fan of the dedicated power ports

[midnight escarp]

Language please #🎯rules-n-roles 2️⃣

[glossy hornet]

my bad

sorry

[midnight escarp]

happens

[still frigate]

I would prefer if each building had a passthrough. The high temperature foundry is so big that it should at least have a port on each side, IMO.

But I can see why one might now like the all power from every direction.

[glossy hornet]

yeah at minimum power being flowthrough should be a thing

maybe the code wont let that happen and it'd have to be power port to power port so that's why it's like that now

[still frigate]

The big drill has passthrough. So does the large badwater pump.

I would say it is just a design choice to add to the challenge, making the players form a proper power distribution system.

Ever seen one of these single-shaft systems IRL? They are an amazing look at early pre-industrial revolution engineering.

[glossy hornet]

there's challenge and there's deliberate obtuseness imo, no offense to lapan.

[glossy hornet]

nah but I'll look into em

[still frigate]

Think of your old building with a water wheel. But make that small factory size. Every piece of powered equipment is fed from that one waterwheel. Belts and pullies were commonly used to engage and disengae a tool.

Caused a lot of accidents and maimings.

Woodworking was a hobby of mine, back when I still could.

[glossy hornet]

just slap a hazard sign on it that'll fix it /j

[still frigate]

LMAO

I used an antique drill press once that had a crank for manual use and a large wheel on the side to be hooked to a belt for powered use. This one didn't have the belt so it was cranking for me.

[glossy hornet]

neato

[still frigate]

Argargablar: Monitoring for abuses is probably a bit annoying when you have chatty people like me, eh?

[glossy hornet]

lol

[midnight escarp]

There's "actively monitoring" and then there's "noticing things as I'm following a discussion I was already interested in reading"

Because there have been days I tried to read every message on the discord and it's impossible

[still frigate]

Would drive me (futher) insane to even try!

[midnight escarp]

One of the things I like about this discord (even before I was a moderator) is that they tend to moderate each other fairly well

[still frigate]

I shake so bad that sometimes weird things come out... especially when my left hand drifts off of homerow and everything is off one letter. A very innocent word became a rather bad one that way once.

[midnight escarp]

Oof

[still frigate]

I caught it before anyone saw it (I think)

I usually reread my posts 3 or 4 times after posting to catch errors that my mind wont see the first times.

[midnight escarp]

Yeah, I also proof-read 90% of my messages just in case

[still frigate]

It is weird for me. Even after proofreading I will miss OBVIOUS errors. I hit send and read and it looks fine. A moment later I read again and an intended "that" is a "the" or some such fiddle-faddle.

[heavy lodge]

So, do not try to use Auto Key Clicker ❓ 😇 🤣

[midnight escarp]

I don't know what that is

[still frigate]

I believe the reference is to predictive typing.

[midnight escarp]

Oh yeah, I have autoreplace autocorrect, etc disabled on my phone

too easy to make really bad typos

[still frigate]

Too true.

[midnight escarp]

Also because it accepts the autocorrect just by pressing send... wth

[still frigate]

It is really bad with speech to text. I'll do something, read it and it looks fine, then hit send and watch as it changes words on me.

[glossy hornet]

yeah I'd rarhter make typos that enup like this than Grapefruit being autocorrected to Guatemala halfway through typing

[heavy lodge]

speech to test ? Not text ... 🤣

[still frigate]

/laughs
Yep, that happens to me more times an hour than I care to count.

It is a BIG part of why I don't try to code anymore.

It's not like I can work anymore, so I have plenty of time to learn how to mod this... BUT... I would drive myself up the wall looking for errors my brain refuses to see.

[glass gull]

I also thought that, but once the dirt starts coming in it doesn't really stop

[still frigate]

Good point

Of course I really want to edit early on. /laughs

I'm just glad dynamite doesn't need researched and is relatively easy to make even early-ish game. Plus the free ones in the busted cart.

[midnight escarp]

Is the free in broken cart dynamite to balance out the early mines if the map isn't made to support them ?

[glossy hornet]

probably

[still frigate]

That is what I originally saved it for. Until Lapan told me that you can also use supports to adjust the mine's height, if you are off just a bit.

[glossy hornet]

do you mean platforms or something else

this isn't u making a typo or anything I just don't know much

[still frigate]

Platforms. Only good for one level in early game though.