Water Beaver Overhaul

[sullen cape]

In U5 the Bamboo drowned at more than 2 deep for me though

[astral harbor]

@shell fiber is there any known reason why Mechanical Drills are not being emptied on Drits? Hauliers supply them with Drills, remove coal / iron / waste rocks, but refuse to touch on Dirt. I made a crate storage for Dirt but I don't think that should make any reasonable difference?

[astral harbor]

And I just discoverd that Gian Squoia can be planted at max height 13, impossible to plan it at 14 and higher. This has 100% changed as I wanted to plant them in a place I've been doing in last playthrough and it doesn't let me to do so.

If that's by design I wouldn't mind if description would mention that

[snow scroll]

Sadly no. @rancid tulip was lookin at the code...

[snow scroll]

I have found that haveing a place for them to use it really helps. Mark out some terrain, depth/layers is great, and prioritize it all the way down. a storage for dirt nearby increases throughput further.

[astral harbor]

The thing is that my storage is like 20 tiles away 😄 and occupying dumb builders with it is a real pain. Storage of course seems to be empty.

I hope that bot's showing up will fix that

[snow scroll]

originally Quadruple Terrain Bounds mod from Mod.io was a dependancy. with it it doesnt matter. I havent tried the workshop mods that do the same thing, as i have and am happy with QTB

[astral harbor]

Yeah, I looked at it too, but it would take me too much time to get into Unity modding 😕

[astral harbor]

Nice. Next thing to check

[rancid tulip]

I would be happy to help somebody else revive the Housing code and move it to the workshop. Ideally the original author.

[astral harbor]

I only saw it's .Net, do you know anything else about it? If I can get hold of the original idea then it should be doable to re-create it into anything 🙂

[snow scroll]

as i understand the author has been contacted . I believe you could use it with a *tentative code awaiting authors aproval... maybe...

[astral harbor]

It need to be converted to current Workshop compatible mod either way, this most likely means full re-write

[snow scroll]

@heavy lodge Would probably know the protocol for repurposing another, unresponsive mod makers mod

[rancid tulip]

I said I would be happy to help, mainly because wrestling with compiling mods has defeated me before. Once they are compiling, I can dig around in the code and get it to do something. But getting something that compiles and runs is a showstopper

[astral harbor]

So we are on the same boat 😄

[snow scroll]

"I see" said the blind man, to his deaf son while sticking his wooden arm out the window to feel the rain.

ya'll smarter than me gettin it that far

[shell fiber]

Bamboo is okay up to 7-deep

Hauling is very strange, the behaviours are often inefficient and I'm afraid the prioritize button makes things worse

[shell fiber]

Again the hauling behaviour is weird, it's more efficient to have the dirt consumed by something like a clay pit doing gold panning or to do some terraforming

[shell fiber]

I can make them less tall in terms of block occupancy but they might allow to do weird things (not changing the visuals)

[shell fiber]

Ahah, I heard a variant of this :
"Let's see, said the blind man to his wife, who was deaf"

[astral harbor]

Thank you for all the answers 🙂 Don't think reducing height is needed. I would rather see the height mod mentioned by Perpetual Newb re-added on steam and added as a dependency.
Otherwise finding a good place to plan them is a challenge. I ended up just blowing up one of the cliffs to the correct height (flattening it out :-D)

While at it, have you intentionally changed the platforms to be stackable again infinitely? Also should the water tank allow me to build this monstrosity?

[radiant arch]

that change was in the most recent update - so weird, isn't it??

(well, technically it was always possible with upward shafts, BUT now it's not even an exploit, just weird.. haha)

[astral harbor]

And I do have one suggestion. As a change to the dams. Allow the dam upgrades to be infinitely stackable 😄 And create a high-tech dam piece that will function as a sluice in the vanilla game. Even as an endgame item. It would be fun to have that option around.

[radiant arch]

love the sluice idea - not sure about the infinite stacking - you can build them on top of anything else - buildings, platforms, ..

[astral harbor]

I never tried to exploit it. I restrain myself from any exploits. So was very very very surprised when I saw platforms stack 😄

[astral harbor]

To make sluice viable, dams need to be stackable. Otherwise you cannot build on top of it

Unless we get the house-sluice

which can be built on top of

Than I'm fine with that too.

[radiant arch]

bottom layer sluice makes more sense, doesn't it? top-place would be like a flood gate?

[astral harbor]

I would also love to see a "water-tight" upgrade to large warehouse. So using glass panes make them watertight

[astral harbor]

Only bottom layer makes the most sense

@snow scroll What was the acutal intention of getting this mine operaing? I feel like I have overdone it 😄

[radiant arch]

there's two mines more easily accessible haha

[astral harbor]

I know 😄 but those didn't fit my idea for it

But due to the haulers problem and also the housing-workplace problem I'll have to work next on splitting it all up in districts

[radiant arch]

technically you can seal off the bad water here too - no need for the many homes

[astral harbor]

I have no clue when but I got 800 beavers already

[astral harbor]

How?

[radiant arch]

800 without districts sounds super inefficient

[astral harbor]

Sounds like fun 🙂

To make it work

[radiant arch]

the nuclear reactor should seal it? not? hmm.. actually never used one of them..

[astral harbor]

ahhh yeah

but that's for later

[radiant arch]

yeah, can understand wanting the abyss first..

[astral harbor]

Either way, This is the most fun project so far xD

[radiant arch]

tbh: i try and add some kitchens in dams like that

[astral harbor]

Mass storage for every item

This valley is ideal for it 😄

[radiant arch]

never build more than a mid-sized storage ever yet (all just-in-time production) (with WBO)

[astral harbor]

Yeah, when you have loads of districts and more efficient.

Makes sense

But I need to acount for spikes of usage up and down

easiest way to do so is to have massive storage

[radiant arch]

true. would make hauling more useful too

[astral harbor]

Not really they still haul 1 piece at a time

that's why I have to change the districts

[radiant arch]

you had a look at far-distance district crossings?

[astral harbor]

can't find a good place for it

[radiant arch]

i so love them - sometimes having a 96-tile-crossing pass over a middle district

try setting them up real high - right in the middle of things

like on top of that warehouse stack actually might work

[astral harbor]

Yeah. But for now I think I get bots first, then I set up production districts with bot haulers to make it all super efficient

[radiant arch]

you can assign bots to any crossing too now, no need for the special building anymore (sadly not yet for haulers)

[astral harbor]

@shell fiber concerning this, I have one more question. Can you enable building on top of water tanks (this 3x3 square). By the way those are designed, it would make sense to put like 3x3 warehouse on top of it. Also description suggests other buildings can be built on top of them.

[astral harbor]

Yeah but I want to have haulers + crossing with boths and the beavers forcus on production only.

Wanna push my pc to the limit, like getting 3 fps on x3 😄 I believe I need 2000+ beavers for it.

[radiant arch]

all the best for that!

[astral harbor]

Currently with 800 i'm running at 60-70 fps on x3. Most of the time I play on x30 😄

The only thing I don't like about the new update are the giant pillars mega platforms. I mean I don't like that those requre extra space now. Feels to me incredibly inefficient

[radiant arch]

agreed - very late gamish, slow to build and late to return any benefit

[astral harbor]

Those things are fine 😄 I don't mine being late and hard to build

It's just now it takes a lot extra squares to do it

[radiant arch]

once you set them up and got bots handling them it is nice though. feeding a thousand extra easily

[astral harbor]

previous platforms were exaact size of the hydrophonic gardens

[radiant arch]

ohhh

that's different

[astral harbor]

So you couldave had them wall by wall

now you need to have all this extra spacing around

[radiant arch]

yeah...

[shell fiber]

to my dismay... yeah i guess 😅

[shell fiber]

that would imply 3d model issues, not very practical. but i've had plans for a third dam upgrade for a long time, but never actually proceeded to do it

[shell fiber]

anything that can be used as a levee without drawback (pop increase) would eventually turn this faction back into some weird folktails variant

[astral harbor]

Yeah if that's a case then a pass though house that works like a sluice 🙂 You had one like that in the old version with turbine I think or something like that.

[astral harbor]

I hear that argument and you are most likely correct. I didn't thought about that implication.

[astral harbor]

Overall stackable platforms are cool. It's more like QoL rather than balance change I think. 😄

The only thing I'm missing is that the hanging platforms we could have up to 2 tiles away from the edge (one normal one reinforced) which is no longer working.

It was a cool mechanic and allowed for stacking some weird buildings together like engines etc.

[radiant arch]

you need to (temporarily) set something one tile below them to extend the skewer overhangs. like a temporary platform (no need to complete)

[snow scroll]

it is so the overdrive reactor fits on the map without other mods

[astral harbor]

Oh crap good to know that

[snow scroll]

much quicker to type that one🙃

[shell fiber]

two squewers should still work

[astral harbor]

It doesn't let me stack them no matter what I do. I saw @radiant arch "workaround" but yeah it's not working for me as simple as before

[shell fiber]

placement is still an absolute mess, sorry about that, didn't find much time to poke at this

[astral harbor]

I don't believe placement is an issue here 🤔 This workaround basically cheats the system into hanging it mid air.

same way as it persists after i delete building

between mod.it and workshop version something changed with them.

[radiant arch]

mid-air skewers will not make it past saves - or anything you can remove the "foundation" of, like overhangs, bridges, ..

interestingly they are tied to the actual object, so removing the building and rebuilding another will not fix any skewers "hanging on them" - they will miss after reload

[snow scroll]

the overhanq/platform/skewer "bridge" piece would often disappear on reloads. well, if you had them support themselves anyway...

[stone pond]

yeah, I use that for all factions, works very nicely ^_^

[astral harbor]

Just curious. Did anyone got to a point where they had "enough" sunflowers? 😄 It seems that no matter how many I have those are never enough.

Ofc aside of getting full storage of the dependent meals and items essentially stopping production.

As if we make all things that use sunflower oil at once, it's nearly impossible to keep up

[stiff flint]

Are river baths intentionally more efficient at beaver cleaning that tower baths?

[distant wigeon]

Oh neat! Unless it's possible to add to the Emberpelts, though, I probably won't get a chance to ever test that, sadly. Neat, though; Bamboo let's you get at least a little wood from a pretty deep reservoir.

[shell fiber]

Yeah that's the reason I made it 😉
Last time I tested it worked with the emberpelts too

[radiant arch]

initially using districts to have them where they matter
and later it pretty much evens out, as superior meals fill the need with much less actual seeds/ oil needed
rarely using more than 2 oil presses for around 800 beavers.

if you got problems with farming - a satellite farm with a big farmhouse center for harvesting and smaller farms out for planting can be real efficient. plus the super irrigation tower speedup

[sullen cape]

#📢announcements oo that looks good 🙂

[cloud flax]

Ropeways!!! Sounds bit like far away district centers :P

Did lan have insider knowledge 👀

[shell fiber]

Nope, maybe they got inspired by it but I doubt that, they probably have been working in this for a while
Also my "ropeways" are mostly visual

[cloud flax]

I wanna get back to playing!!! Btw how is this update gonna impact WBO???

[stiff flint]

i tried to load with experimental and my standard mod list and crashed.... not exactly surprised

[shell fiber]

Apparently some of the scripts have to be updated in custom buildings so don't expect any mod to work on u7 right now

But I expect mods to be relatively easy to update

[cloud flax]

Since there's a way to add another type of network for movement:
pressurized water slides for water beavers for faster movement or
Water canons that shoot you off to a particular destination pool

[shell fiber]

let's not get to exited yet, i have at least my current stuff to push to U6 before even looking at the ropeway / pipe transport 😅

[livid zephyr]

Well quit slacking already! 🤪

[shell fiber]

i'm working on the faction's endgame wonder 😉🤫

[rancid tulip]

The version I knew was "I see said the blind man, as he picked up his ax and saw" which can be read as picking up tools, or something about picking up his ax suddenly granting vision.

[distant wigeon]

Is it a Rocket to go to Space?

[rancid tulip]

I do appreciate the anti-gravity properties of barreled water. being able to move 120 water at 10 weight is just so nice.

[rancid tulip]

is there an actual advantage to using the drinking fountain? Just looking at the numbers it looks like 120 water in for 100 water out (might just be a rounding error and actually it's 120 water out).

so Is it JUST the increased capacity of a 1by1by1 block? holding 240 water in a unit of space rather than 45 water/

[shell fiber]

The barreled water exists solely to supply massive amounts of water to a district that doesn't have access to water on its own, it is not meant to be an efficient mean of storing water, it only gives 100 out of 120 water to deincentivize using it as storage (and I'm sure you noticed it doesn't give you the planks back either)

[rancid tulip]

yup

[still barn]

omg it's genius

decorative cover

[snow scroll]

there is no wrong way... though the hole fits an advanced sawmill... might save you on population creep with fewer but sounds lkike yer PC kin handle it.

[radiant arch]

fewer beavers.. playing diorama with this mod is.. challenging 😅

like worse than the apocalypse run..

[shell fiber]

tell me if there is any issue, crash, bugs or anything problematic 🙂

also no spoilers about the wonder, at least for the time being 🤫😉

aaah, crap, i forgot to edit the cost of the building itself 😣

[radiant arch]

will it be more expensive after?

[shell fiber]

not sure how you treat 2000 gears as cost 😅

[radiant arch]

cheap

likely got 5k around anyway haha

[shell fiber]

well do you have 2000 treatedplanks lying around ? 😅

but i took it down for the time being

[radiant arch]

not a single treated plank.. hmm

darn..

[shell fiber]

i also had an idea

[radiant arch]

make it require 500 gold bars? (hopefully not^^)

[shell fiber]

ahah, no

the building will be quite reasonnable i think

but i'll make it require to be build in a large dam

[radiant arch]

nice

[shell fiber]

which requires me to rework the model

[radiant arch]

worth it!!

wow making 2000 treated planks would take 3 beavers 125 days working 100% full-time.. darn..

[stiff flint]

larger populations solve a lot of WBO problems.... Beaver Labor Hours are a powerful recourse

[radiant arch]

if you can spam 20-30% extra population you can bypass food and health needs completely, have multiple production lines for anything and skip on micro-management, speed through all the big buildings from stockpiles..

it's a real difference to run to ENS on less than 80 beavers (due to limited space) or do it with 2nd or 3rd library on 300

worse once you stark with the big industries actually..

@shell fiber nice "bug": wonder need gives -100 well-being before it is build + counts as "basic need"

[stiff flint]

my current colony is around 1300 bio +200 bots.... 3 abyss, 2 with reactors.... the only thing I really desire is higher density beaver storage

[radiant arch]

i think the 2k treated planks is a real nice (evil) hurdle for the wonder

you need to prepare for that long beforehand and stock up
and it makes that useless resource meaningful
and it's slow and expensive relative to the late time in game you could build it (would feel sad to have it easier to achieve than the nuclear overdrive reactor)

[stiff flint]

treated planks wouldn't be hard to accumulate.... relatively easy materials, few other uses so they won't get poached for other projects

[radiant arch]

you need an alchemist and they work at 1 every 3h. not expensive, but super super slow

[stiff flint]

on a new colony it wouldn't be difficult to start stockpiling them early so they're in storage a long time before they're needed at a construction site

have you tried out update 7?

[radiant arch]

will wait for it to support mods. not sure yet about the changes tbh. vertical terrain would make even more compact maps

might be nice for my apocalypse run (roofed the whole starting valley to have a water storage right above too)

[stiff flint]

the zip lines are great.... you can place the support poles 30m apart but it calculates "distance to district center" as 10m per pole between 2 entrance stations

[radiant arch]

nice

that's a very useful feature with how much long paths impacted productivity

[stiff flint]

yeah.... I'm thinking storage towers right outside the district center with a zip line station nearby running directly to the district crossings

i haven't started iron teeth yet.... i'm not sure how the tubes change the distance calculation

[radiant arch]

regarding the wonder: 15 tiles seems a rather low range regarding the high cost to build one. was there a reason to lessen it from the 25(?) of other factions?

especially as you can not build it as freely (floating above a town center) too, it's kinda very hard to place this big thing anywhere where it would give a big benefit

minor "bug": wonder is accessible from all sides - paths do connect from the back for example

[radiant arch]

wonder does not appear to have any stages - still initial stage after 51%
wonder does not show builders inside. just them running around, placing things, not sure when they build actually..
in the description it might be "will be the greatest" and "hooman".

with the -100 to well-being it was actually faster to make 2k treated planks than build the actual thing haha (suddenly having so many kits almost killed off my population)

[shell fiber]

What, that shouldn't happen 😑

[shell fiber]

It's not meant to cost that of course

[shell fiber]

Perfectly intentional 😉 that will make sense when build

[shell fiber]

Also intentional

[radiant arch]

that's nice. maybe little confusing with it only having a door on one side currently

[shell fiber]

Yeah you probably should roll back to the previous update, there is errors with this one

[radiant arch]

too bad

i really enjoyed being able to build it

and hope mine is finished building soon to see what you intended it to be (10 cycles is slow)

[shell fiber]

Well if you have a run in it's final stage (unlocked everything, build the abyss and nuclear reactors, sealed the bad water sources etc) you can just give yourself the treated planks to see what the wonder does 😉

Unless something gets in my way I can hopefully push a fix tomorrow

Specifically I've always wanted to have a building that actually require deep water (think 6-10 deep or so) to actually entice people to build a large dam and the wonder is a good enough candidate I guess

[radiant arch]

lovely wonder and final text / win message

pricing appeared fair enough too, for a single launch

[distant wigeon]

Oooh! The endgame wonder has been released! Y'all are gonna love it, I'm sure.

Just, uhh... manual save before activating it. No reason in particular. Just good practice, y'know?

[woeful sun]

Because with Water Beavers, what could possibly go wrong?

[shell fiber]

wait i realized you probably were missing the shader fix for one of the important material 🤔

anyway, i'm almost done with it, but that will likely be for tomorrow evening

[cloud flax]

where do we connect for power????

[cloud flax]

These scaffoldings look bit like space ships or drones!

[rancid tulip]

what is the CMS of a fully armed and powered water cannon?

0.15 cms seams to be the answer?

unless it's been changed. So... you need at least 5 giant water wheels, per water cannon just to break even.

[rancid tulip]

Watching haulers, and hauler bots is a cause for going nuts. how are they choosing their tasks?! it's wild how often they run across the map to pick up 2 times.

[stiff flint]

water canons have the same output as the mechancial pumps for folktails and iron beavers

[sullen cape]

Should be 0.5CMS?

[rancid tulip]

I got the 0.15 number from here

[shell fiber]

I don't have the data on hand but that seems about right, it is quite weaker than the FT / IT mech pumps

[shell fiber]

Eewww

I'm a bit surprised it does that, thought I had made it better

Ah also unrelated but someone pointed out that the consumption of nuclear fuel is unsustainable relative to the speed of extraction of nuclear waste, does someone has the maths already figured out?

[stiff flint]

i think i needed to dedicate 2 abyss mines entirely to radioactive waste and exploration teams.... and run 6 centrifuges to keep reactor 2 online

[rancid tulip]

that's . . . a lot. I only have two abysals on my map

that's total write off levels of expensive

[stiff flint]

with a single reactor i have more than enough power to run an absurd amount of duplicate buildings

[radiant arch]

you can also easily get 3k or more from just the cooling water..

[radiant arch]

nuclear plant math (16h day, max performance, 0 well-being)

exploration: up to 19 daily -> not really limiting
nuclear waste: up to 8 daily per mine
nuclear fuel: up to 0.8 daily per mine

usage
basic reactor: can run at least 3 per day per mine ~12k hp/ mine
abyssal reactor: need up to 3 mines per reactor ~ 8k hp/ mine

if you add the 160% workspeed up from well-being..
it goes up to around 2 nuclear fuel per day per mine
so you can run 2 abyssal reactors fulltime from 3 mines easily

and well.. most industries run working hours..

tl;dr

1. single mine is enough to run an abyssal reactor working hours
2. basic reactor is more fuel efficient

if i did not mess up the math again 🙂

[shell fiber]

i see, thanks !

so i probably should make the centrifuge reciepes more efficient, among other things

i'm also slightly unsatisfied with the abyssal nuclear reactor, it's kind of... too good 🤔 ?

like the power is of course the point, but i feel the water is kind of even better... what do you think ?

[shell fiber]

i guess getting the nuclear waste should be faster, since it is already mapped (ruin exploration)

so i'll decrease the reciepe time from 10h to 4h

and double the output of the centrifuge

also make them a little bit faster

so the basic nuclear reactor's value remain mostly unchanged, but you need 60% less nuclear waste mining teams, and the large reactor effectively consumes half what it used to

(in terms of workforce required to fuel it)

yeah with those numbers a single nuclear waste extraction team should be able to generate 20 nuclear waste per day, which is now equivalent to 5 nuclear fuel.

but one centrifuge can only process 10 /day

so you'd likely need at least 2

which is fine to me

but the output of the abyssal nuclear reactor... 25k hp... doesn't that make everything else kind of irrelevant ? when you reach that point, how much power does your town need approximately ?

if i change the power output, i'll rescale fuel consumption of course

[radiant arch]

with plenty redundancy (like 4 factories, 4 assemblies, 2nd foundry, 3rd big sawmill, etc..) mine is around 10 to 15k max. little more if i want vertical farms, little less if i skip bot making

so technically a basic nuclear reactor is plenty, if needed

the water is more interesting for me

[stiff flint]

the water is huge.... I've got 16 water pumps running off the outflow of reactor 2 and the outflow of reactor 1 keeps all of my crops irrigated during droughts

i literally don't need river water any more

[radiant arch]

got my 100 sequoias watered from towers, feeding advanced sawmills, feeding mechanized pumps - most work done by bots and no relation to natural water sources anymore
only plant in need of actual flowing water is bamboo too, as most can be done with vertical farms or GMO

[radiant arch]

just checked, but running engines from gas extractors is super inefficient.. it's only around one engine per mine(1k hp)..

with vertical farming you can run them with 2.4 neph-farms (+logs), basically gain around 350 hp per engine..
you can perfectly run all power needs from vertical farming haha (with big population increase as downside)

or build solar panels on top of things..

likely basic reactors are still a very efficient method if you just need power and have no flowing water

[stiff flint]

I don't use the vertical farms often..... it feels better to blast out more flat land and set up another cluster of farms

[radiant arch]

me too. only matter on very small maps. yet it's those maps too where you need to be creative about energy needs. (you can just spam big wheels and batteries on larger maps)

vertical farms are kinda very expensive too, much for the metal for platforms and bot parts

so it's usually very very late in game any way

[shell fiber]

vertical farms are meant to be more space-efficient and don't require workforce since they can be supplied/ offloaded by bots so i would have thought they are more interesting 🤔 i guess it depends on people's playstyles

[stiff flint]

the vertical farms were at the top of my list when i first started playing the mod.... by the time i figured out how to survive long enough to get them my priorities shifted

i like the GMO Labs more and try to use them when i can.... i use the florists even when i don't need them

[shell fiber]

update incomming

don't forget the texture pack !

[stiff flint]

I'm crashing when i try to load (2 attempts) I did crash at load before the patch.... Ii'm at 1300 beavers 300 bots on that colony so i might be causing all sorts of things to break

[radiant arch]

for me saves often corrupt with big maps / populations - seems to be a problem with disk-writing and timeouts or something.. - the error log is quite clear on that

[shell fiber]

maybe delete your wonder before moving to the current update ? 🤔 in case there is some incompatibility

also i uploaded a minor update again, for the bridges to connect properly to the doors

[radiant arch]

that's no problem. did load my 4.3.5 save just fine with the previously build wonder

oh.. well..

it did just remove the wonder altogehter haha

nice..

[stiff flint]

i went back to a previous auto save and got in on the 3rd attempt

[shell fiber]

😅

Sorry

Well it is 14 tall or something now

[radiant arch]

do try and manually safe often with big games.. autosaves can quickly become corrupted (and all saves after a corrupted save seem to break too)

[shell fiber]

Well... You might want to reduce your population, for example by investing in mechanised farms 🤐

[radiant arch]

can't seem to connect the doors .. hmm. . oh, you fixed that

[shell fiber]

Well, tell me if anything feels wrong

[radiant arch]

need to reload. so far it looks gorgeous.

[shell fiber]

If everything is fine I'll hopefully get to poke at u7, praying it's not going to be yet another nightmare

Although to be fair most of my woes with U6 were due to shifting everything to timbermesh 3d files and the texture specification shenanigans that implies

[stiff flint]

i'm already having ideas for the next (lower population) colony

[radiant arch]

wonder now has the full launch animated 🙂 (missed the most important part previously for me haha)

hmm.. the range is tricky.. that was unexpected 🙈 - you fully intended the effect after launch, didn't you?

and there's no well-being for "launching" the wonder anymore - that is intended too? well.. it works, yet unexpected and weird..
|| the status is set for all beavers in range, but to no effect! only when they walk the crossline (i think) it actually hits - for hours after the actual launch ||

very lovely and fitting wonder and execution

maybe the actual moving part might seem a little small in scale (feels like 20% wider could work too on this big screen) but otherwise really nice

darn.. can't wait to use this on the diorama map.. the impact would be hilarious 🙂

[thorny sapphire]

I wanted to revisit the mod and tried to play it on the official branch u6.
I installed the mod and every dependency through the steam workshop.
When trying to start a game with the folktails to unlock the actual mod the game crashed repeatedly.
Can someone give me some advice here?

[abstract vector]

Can you share your crashlog?
%userprofile%\Documents\Timberborn\Error reports

[stiff flint]

wonder achieved.... looks glorious

[shell fiber]

yeah the mechanic is a bit tricky, but for now it mostly works as intended

[radiant arch]

my bad for launching one right above the advanced sawmill, next to foundries, apartment towers, food mile and both abysses.. got around 120 directly and they kept coming in for hours till almost the whole district was covered 🙂

[shell fiber]

oh, by the way i found out how to make the nuclear reactor water be contaminated, i think 30% contamination should be good ? 🤔 that leaves it still quite usable, but not to the point of rendering the actual river useless

[radiant arch]

the abyssal reactor?

30% seems fair

[bitter storm]

I think 25% sounds like a nicer number rather than 30%, unless 25%is too less?

[thorny sapphire]

I think I found the issue: I still had the bepinex folder. Now I deleted it and the game started

[shell fiber]

i'll try to poke at U7 now, no idea how much of a chore it will be

[sullen cape]

Good luck, I'm liking the Ziplines so far 🙂

[bitter storm]

My idea is a canon for throwing the beavers, dunno whether that will be your approach
Or maybe even a rocket could be nice

[thorny pelican]

You could combine the pipe mod with the tubeways, to transport beavers and water
The stations would also be water inlets/outlets/pumps, and of course watertight housing 😉

[radiant arch]

a small trebuchet? sling shots? (and cushions)

kinda would like to see them swim, like a tiny aqueducts, or roller skate.. yet neither would work well with the vertical component..

balloons would seem too slow sadly.. but that would be adorable too

[bitter storm]

Not small

[rancid tulip]

anybody else think the beaver bot district crossing should have at least 70 units of space for everything rather than 30 units of space? being able to carry 70 water is not as useful if you don't have space to put down 70 units of stuff.

[radiant arch]

would be cool. yet i'm really in favour of removing that one and only have the normal crossings with bots.

[rancid tulip]

i can understand the bots needing a 'bigger' workspace

having them share the normal crossing would be easier though

[rancid tulip]

but I was also expecting the bigger on the outside workspace to be bigger on the inside to match

[rancid tulip]

Mechanically this visual blight looks like it will work:
with the middle wheel being medium sized the top shelf is exactly the height that the water cannon's can fire up into. . . .

should it be done: no.
Can it be done: Not if you value your sanity, at least without a block copy paste tool, it's fiddly.
Will it be done: Probably, just cause.

[shell fiber]

That is hard coded in the district crossing script, it might be possible to change but I don't know how

[shell fiber]

Yeah I'll probably do that

[rancid tulip]

fair enough.

[shell fiber]

I can't say much since I don't really know how the zip line / tube ways work yet, but I assume I will be fairly limited in what I can actually do.

Trebuchets would be quite fun, but probably zip lines are more practical

[woeful sun]

DistrictCrossingInventoryInitializer.DistrictCrossingCapacity -- it's private static readonly, you may be able to change it with reflection.

meh, maybe, maybe not

[shell fiber]

I have no idea what reflection is so...

[woeful sun]

(code)

[radiant arch]

oh no.. the hot steam from the factory is no longer walkable.. darn..

[radiant arch]

diorama is surprisingly a fun map to play with this mod. kinda well-balanced too.
the start is super slow and careful. but less demanding than apocalypse was (yet similar).
currently started building the ENS around 40th cycle and just barely hit the 100 beaver mark forcing me to go for mechanized pumps.
will likely need another 100 cycles to build the abyss now and start preparing for the big reactors haha

there's some gravity defiance of course - like the floating platforms for the ENS in the front left part 🙂
this is likely my most compact and structured WBO build to date

[rare ferry]

Just a quick question, when did lotus change to a gatherable on a harvestable? I must have missed that.

[shell fiber]

i think midways into U6, having to deal with the handicrafter plucking lotus apart was causing constant clogging due to either excess nenuphars or excess flowers.

and then i realized that i could have the crop be cuttable (farmhouse) AND the flower being harvestable (gatherer)

so you just have to make it so that lotuses are accessible only by the gatherer (remove the stairs that allowed the farmers to plant them for example)

otherwise, if you remove the planting order, i think they will naturally spread like any other plants, so if you can pause the farmhouse for a while you can have them invade a part of the pond that is no longer in farmhouse range

and the last, lazier option is just to overplant nenuphars until you have too much of them, at which point they will eventually be left to bloom 🙂

[rare ferry]

I went with the last one. I just remember last time I played I think they farm house just pulled them in.

[radiant arch]

edge-case, but overhangs do void sequoia planting, while skewer overhangs do not (might be due to the additional height from the four screw-like things with the overhang)

[shell fiber]

For those who wonder, I've been poking at u7, but I will be mostly away for the next ~1 month

[sullen cape]

Hope it's good time away 👋

[gleaming tree]

love lapan, dont forget to enjoy some time to yourself !!!

[cloud flax]

Enjoy the break!!!!

[shell fiber]

yeah i'll go back to france so that my ~~girlfriend ~~ fiancée meets my family, we'll also visit paris since the flight takes us there anyway

it goes without saying that my savings... ouch

but eh, it's fine

that will work as a honeymoon...hopefully 😅

[halcyon trellis]

Congrats 🎉🎉

[distant wigeon]

OH MY GOD YOU'RE GETTING MARRIED CONGRATS!!!!

[cloud flax]

OMG!! Congratulations!!!!

[bitter storm]

Congratulations @shell fiber ! Hope you have a lovely vacation and honeymoon!

[stone pond]

totally congrats, have a great wedding and honeymoon, hope she understands your continued desire to mod timberborn, and doesn't squash it 😉

[honest mauve]

hi guys im new to the mod and struggling lol, how do i get that final component to build the library? there are similar things like an anvil thats needed to build a basic smelting hut as well that i have no idea how to get

[stiff flint]

you get your first anvil and library set by demolishing your district center.... you really want to have the ability to build a replacement district center immediately

[honest mauve]

i tried that, built a new district centre and deleted the cart but though i saw those things in the rubble, my beavers wouldn't pick them up? they picked up all other rubble, the things i could build storage for, eg. gears, planks etc. and just left the final pile lying on the ground 😭

[stiff flint]

fancy storage pillows.... the first option on the storage menu lets them be picked up

[honest mauve]

omg

thank you...

i was going insane hahaha

[sullen cape]

In regular Vanilla Timberborn, you need available storage for the builders to be able to pick up rubble for that item, even if you have a building site that needs it. Rubble -> Storage -> Ready to be used
Welcome to the Timberborn Discord 🙂

[distant wigeon]

Oh yeah, Lapan, have you told them you like playing with Beavers yet?

[radiant arch]

unrelated, but was this how the wonder was intended to be set up? on a floating platform, sprinkled by a water cannon, surrounded by all the industry and housing it could fit? (gravity is all about the relative imho)

(and unrelated again: beware of setting up an advanced sawmill in the middle of your settlement - bathing means might be 'slightly' more in demand after)

[shell fiber]

Uuh, I guess It is correct if you didn't cheat the construction of the reservoir.

There seem to be some crimes against gravity being committed with all those platforms, but it's difficult to really tell

Are you chaining skewer platforms infinitly ? I though I had fixed that 🤔

Also what map is it?

[rancid tulip]

I think we need some other use for Insect Larva ... or the Grand Tour needs to give the right ratio between human meat and larva. I keep having to swap over just to keep from clogging one and thus preventing the other from being imported.

[stiff flint]

The grand tour is probably best used as a temporary option until you have more blimps

[rancid tulip]

or make it so when good arrive excess are tossed or lost rather than blocking the full production (although that would undermine part of the challenge of the large automated mines and the rocks that need to be tossed away)

[shell fiber]

That's actually a good point, I didn't think about that

[radiant arch]

Diorama map. tbh infinite chaining is a pain to do right now (needing to construct a temporary layer below it), but possible.
bottom-layer for the wonder is the walk-through lodges. so all nice and proper. i hope.

[radiant arch]

same! for this reason i always go for all airships at once, which is somewhat intense, like 10 balloons collecting explorations for a long time

i mostly try to limit myself to use the proper chaining of skewers whenever possible. and i never cheat on it, it's all build by my max three builders from the one initial builders lodge.
but this was just too fun to pass 🙂
also still intending to build a full lake layer on top of it all, just cause it would look cool! (but not sure to wait for U7 update first to make it farmable)

oh.. and just realising: once the abyss reactor puts out unclean water this population might be seriously screwed.. hmm.. 🤞

[rancid tulip]

8000 HP - 800 to power the cannons, The 7 pumps add a total of +2 to the CMS. which isn't any rational number of anything per cannon but go figure. but almost doubles the power of the stack and keeps it running in a drought . . . for about 2-3 days at just under half power output.

Does it work: Yes kind of enough. technically better than 2 power plants, for power output and doesn't need any haulers or input material. also doesn't block badwater harvesting.
Should it work: well physically no ... but in game terms why not... you can't build it before it stops mattering.
Is it worth it:
No. Not really. it's a lot of space.
The top two layers could be ALMOST twice the current size, but the bottom layer is 100% capped.
It took an obscene amount of wood and steel, and tar.

What is needed to make it viable?:
Copy paste functionality.
being able to build platforms over the rims of the aqueduct walls so you can build the power network at level... to get the power wheels at the turn around to work I had to route the power really awkwardly.

and yes I am working to replace the 'wall of houses' with dirt, you can see the first done at the end. Testing phase.

[radiant arch]

you could run the power-shafts between the wheels (right on the log bridges) and not need extra shaft spacing between aqueducts (not sure i understood what you said there)

looks almost as bad to set up with no copy&paste as any floating island would

if you got quadruple bounds mod enabled you can perfectly float this one way up in the sky too (much more costly though)
and try and run it from a (few) water dump(s) if possible - that's what i wanted to try. like a fully storage-fueled water engine.
would basically only need enough water to counter evaporation over a double channel.. hmm.. let's say a few!

well, glad you tried this first! i kinda hate the awful work of carefully placing hundreds of identical things 🙂

[radiant arch]

certainly not useful or anything. yet i could not resist to abuse utilise the full potential of the new skewer² and build an actual arched bridge!

only missing a free-floating island on the left side i believe! (and more golden fences!)

[rancid tulip]

The aqueduct sections are either 3 long or 5 long, are 2 units of water carrying wide, and 1 unit of 'half sequoia' walls on either side.

so if you have a medium power wheel the power out is just above that half sequoia wall, but you can't build a platform on that half sequoia wall, so you can't build a power log connecting to the medium wheel.

So you have to build a sequoia stand so that it's top will be exactly in line with the walls, then put in a platform so you can pull power under the platform, then put another vertical sequoia above that. for the next layer of the build.

I don't think you can build any higher than this. at least not without the next major release. Water cannon's can only be built on ground level, and are too big to fit in an aqueduct, even if they allowed non ground building.

And 7 of them lifts enough water for 2 cms, but takes a lot of floor space to do so. . . so you would need to put in quite big platforms to put enough lifts to move a reasonable amount of water.

This design is a 4 high log, then a 2 high platform then a 3 high log then a 1 high platform, then a final 3 high and a final 1 high platform.

The bottom and top layers can hold big water wheels and the middle can only fit a small water wheel.

you can't make it any taller because the cannon's can't reach high enough to refill it it's any taller.

[radiant arch]

oh, i see your problem! thanks for explaining it!

not expected the problem with the med-wheels.. hmm..

[rancid tulip]

Is there a way to use the abysal powerplant without flooding it's support buildings? like it doesn't look like it should be possible, but seams like it isn't possible.

[stiff flint]

far from an efficient option but this worked to get the water away from the powerplants

16 pumps was enough to catch all of the water output from reactor 2 for as long as it takes to refill storage

[shell fiber]

Just out of curiosity, how did this work out ? Is it the first time you completed the wonder ?

[rancid tulip]

Ok, Correction: After fixing a few links on my aqueducts. They are pushing 19000 power, and consuming 1400. They are consuming 2 bad water outputs that COULD have produced 6000 power if fed nuclear waste by haulers forever.

So the aqueduct is ... less futile than I first thought. Still a lot of fiddly building placing.

ah, the water does come out the top if it's fully built. Placing the crown on early leaves it bubbling up from below and spilling over the landscape instant flooding the attached buildings.

also of note: the aqueduct walls are two tiles high. they are only shown as being 1 tile high, but do infact hold water up to two depth if permitted to.

[radiant arch]

second time. 1st was on a huge map where it barely covered the industry district and some (300 of 800 beavers, but water and food all left out)
||here on Diorama.. i not dared to launch it before you asked.. after: covered 320 out of 350 directly, rest came in the hours after, but let's say, it got them all. the end. ||

tbh: not sure this is a bug.. the one and only "Aketa" left, was stuck at the shower for cycles( aged 384!! ), with fully starved and fully dehydrated status, right next to the wonder, like 1 tile away.. and just did not die of anything.. ever..
talk about denying reality..

highly recommended way to win the game. feels very final ❤️

[radiant arch]

hmm.. now the only question is: how many beavers can the Diorama map satisfy even? 1k? 2k?
got a decent 100+ wellbeing with the 350 beavers right now. not even optimised half of the ground yet.
really struggling with chestnuts and especially grapes though..
and what does it need from ground even..

• water!
• chestnuts
• pumpkins
• bananas
  (+ few bamboo shoots for meds, balloons can cover ice easily)
  (+ lemons)

technically should have around 400 tiles for all of that, likely half yet available..
another problem would seem clay and dirt as there's only one abyss very little need for metal..

certainly should kill off the sequoia lines.. waste of space really.. (for this map)

technically upgraded pumps should be the most tile-efficient too, so likely kicking the mechanical pumps. especially with the +200% worker bonus

maybe mechanized pumps are too weak actually?? they are 5x regular upgraded pumps, but that is really not even 2 pumps with decent wellbeing

[stiff flint]

around 1k pop is when you'll start needed to add 2nd copies of food production buildings to keep up with the population

[rancid tulip]

Next major release I could do this is soil, but that's next release, I got tired of waiting.

[stiff flint]

That's a nice crop of explosives you're got there....

[rancid tulip]

oh ya... My map is going to be flat and level when I am done with it.

it WAS a canyon between two mountain ranges. Now.... well a small part of a hill remains in one corner

[stiff flint]

that happens sometimes

if the cost of land blocks wasn't so high i might use less explosives.... maybe

[rancid tulip]

maybe

[stone pond]

mourn the 2 beavers while leaving them to their own devices for a moment

or were those actually bots

🧨 🧨

[radiant arch]

incidentally it was exactly 2 for me too. no bot was harmed, ever (never ever seen a WBO bot expire / die / explode! .. hmmm... yet).

[radiant arch]

and kinda curious: how many beavers the wonder reached for you? surely more than 100, was it?

[stiff flint]

i built the wonder in an area I was referring to as "Hive Primus".... probably 600-800 lived in the immediate area

[rancid tulip]

That's a lot of Bang. Those rolling mountains took a lot to clear.

almost 90,k beavers born over that run.

[radiant arch]

now i feel weird about my low numbers..

[abstract vector]

You were on diorama and they did 5x more days than you did

[radiant arch]

haha. there's not much else to do on such a small map really

that one's from my first wonder. more like my usual "rush" to build anything and have stocked up all the wonder my need (on a huge, friendly map)

[stiff flint]

I often let the game run over night or while I'm at work, I'm the opposite of in a rush

[rancid tulip]

721 dynamite, sounds like you didn't declare every pile of dirt more than elevation 2 to be a offense unto nuggen. but also that's a very small map.

I also got a mild case of the walking pneumonia mid run, and left the game to think about cures.

[fair bone]

can someone tell me how surgery kits work? I made the clinic and surgery kits but it doesnt seem like they are using them

[stiff flint]

does the surgery kit require a medical bed?.... there are 3 beds for various medical uses and I can't recall off the top of my head what supplies each require

[sullen cape]

No beavers just go to the clinic when they have any kind of injury and consume the surgery kit, well that's how it works in U5

[fair bone]

currently on U6 and it just doesnt do anything. might be bugged?

[radiant arch]

for me it worked well - but they not seem to use many of them

beavers with serious injuries went and fetched their kits and healed

demand for medical beds went done too

not sure about minor injuries, as the deluxe stew easily covers the need (and is most efficient once you got the ingredients covered)

also the clinic only covers one district. recommended to use a pharmacy to distribute it.

did your number of injured beavers not decrease after clinic was ready? (it will likely not vanish - they get injured quickly - but should reduce a lot)

[fair bone]

Pharmacy?

[radiant arch]

under district centers - a placeholder to import medical demands (and seems to serve injured etc)

[fair bone]

oh wtf

i didnt know that existed

[radiant arch]

hard to find if you not look for it haha

[fair bone]

it took me so long to find even basic farming huts lmao

[radiant arch]

for certain buildings sometimes not working: for me it can rarely block - like balloon traders not filling up at all - saving and reloading the game usually fixes that

maybe your clinic got blocked in that weird random way

[fair bone]

ive had this happen for days now

[radiant arch]

very odd

[fair bone]

any idea how to know if they are using the kits?

[radiant arch]

watching them or watching if the clinic uses them up / refills..

if you have deluxe stew they might use very little of them

not fully certain they use them for minor injuries tbh

[fair bone]

hmm

[stiff flint]

Most WBO problems can be solved with more haulers or a vacation day with low work hours

[radiant arch]

surprisingly it can be quite efficient to give them a free hour daily for them to gain more happy and work hader

[honest mauve]

hello water beaver friends I am struggling to place the washing machine thing lol advice?

[sullen cape]

Looks fine to me but it's complaining about no water or maybe not enough water?

[fair bone]

if the water is flowing its gotta have like .80 on an adjustable dam

not enough water pools up for it to work

[brave ivy]

Lol, BURN! is the message i set for Emberpelts scripts being loaded in U6.

[shell fiber]

Hi there !
I'm back home but now busy with packing all my stuff, not ideal for modding 😣

[heavy lodge]

Hi, welcome back and, really hope that packing means something really good for you.

[stone pond]

wb

[halcyon trellis]

Hope it was all you dreamed of. Welcome back

[sullen cape]

Welcome back Lapan, hope you had lots of fun 😊

[hollow rapids]

Is this mod recommended on easy or normal? I am an experienced vanilla player. Lots of hard mode experience. and any recommended maps?

[hollow rapids]

and does this mod work on update 7?

[stone spruce]

Mod is recommended for Normal, and it does not yet work on Update 7

It is, however, very worth it

Lemon Canyon is the demo map, and has an edit by another fan to make it slightly easier

Don't expect the game to play anything like normal -- it honestly doesn't prepare you. I'd recommend watching a youtube guide or finding a written one somewhere

[halcyon trellis]

or you can watch JC fumble through and miraculously survive (give credit where credit is due tho, i havent tried them yet. seems over whelming)

[stone spruce]

JC's plays of the mod are also awesome, all credit where it's due

[stone pond]

I still love the one where he tried that late game decontamination building, and laughed for at least 5 minutes about it

[heavy lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryBmXf4n0dI&list=WL&index=19&t=2160s 🤣

[hollow rapids]

thanks ill chekc it out

[woeful sun]

also #1297339702353068033 and/or #1258681137362899005 is recommended for finding stuff (because the tech tree is huge)

[glass gull]

What's the intended way to deal with badtides? Is it to just treat them like droughts and avoid building stuff in rivers until you get the floodgate dam?

[radiant arch]

badtides can be very hard to deal with for sure.
stockpiling and irrigation is one way to work around them (lido + dump is surprisingly efficient)

another way can be to build temporary dams and demolish them after badtide ends (micromanagement)

[glass gull]

that was a ... rough... drought

[sullen cape]

You'll micro your economy and just pump water and grow food and nothing else for a bit, maybe 1 hauler

If you haven't done that already

[halcyon trellis]

Storage stockpiling is key. Water doesn't evaporate once in a water storage tank

[radiant arch]

just personal preference: skipping on food stockpile reduces population a little in early to mid-game.
reducing water needs and .. basically i often prefer to irrigate some farmland + trees and have a central lido + showers versus having more farms and population.

depends on having the free dynamite otherwise unneeded or a natural spot for a little water hole basically

[glass gull]

No microing, my priorities are already set in a way that fills water and food production first. Just had to micro the beaver lodging a bit, to ensure they have kids.

[storm gulch]

There are various countermeasures for infected beavers, which I encourage you to discover for yourself and experience the fun firsthand

Waterbeavers is INCREDIBLY fun

And also really hard in a way the normal game isn't

You kind of have to rethink a lot of your normal strategy just because of how different the new supply chains are and how much more emphasis is placed on building strategy, since "everything is a house" and you can't just lazily spam a whole bunch of one type of production building without also causing a huge population crisis

[glass gull]

The day of reckoning has come, let's see how my badwater defense theory holds up in practice.

I'm playing lemon canyon. The plan is:

1. patch up the hole that outputs the water through the main dam
2. demolish the house at the side outflow off the map
3. turn off all waterpumps downstream from the main dam
   4.hope

I... thought the architect's lodge would block the water coming through with its top part...
Gotta rebuild ig, this dam won't protect against a longer badtide at all

25 beavers got weakened. I think I should build a second jail.

[glass gull]

I'm having a great time!

[radiant arch]

97!!! that's such a party you got there!

[heavy lodge]

It's Sing Sing, not party 🤣

[glass gull]

I just saw my first run of the washing machine and... it's pretty funny. I recommend building it even just for your entertainment.

[glass gull]

Huh?

Is that what happens when you cover a walkway with watertight buildings without lights?

[radiant arch]

mines i assume

there's many such fun treasures 🙂

[glass gull]

Got my first floodgate down :D
It controls inflow into a pipe with a 1-width elevation change at the end. Beforehand, that elevation change was the only flow regulator, and it did allow the water to last for 3 or 4 days more in a drought.

[glass gull]

Are sluice analogues planned for this mod? The automation part

[radiant arch]

Lapan mentioned some about considering them, so he might at some point.
Though i would assume this to take time, or not happen too, as he not seemed too fond of the limitations it gave him trying to add it to a building.

personally still not sure about any need for them.. (they are nice, yet having learned to play without them it's really not that huge of a miss)

[shrewd horizon]

@glass gull you are probably playing in Polish. Would you like to test my Polish translation for water beavers?

[glass gull]

Yeah, I could check it out

[shrewd horizon]

Ok. Later I send you file to replace

[fossil karma]

Huh.. Okay.. It seems the mod does work on the latest version?

This is my modlist and load order (there's one more mod in the list which is this mod, it's at the very bottom, I just couldn't fit it into the screenshot)

Whenever I go to make a new world, it freezes for a few seconds then crashes to desktop..

Any idea as to why?

btw, please @ me or reply with ping enabled or I'll never see your response as I'll have forgotten I asked this -w-

[woeful sun]

Does it create a crash report? If it does, please upload it here.

See #🚀mod-users message for information on how to find crash reports

[stone pond]

last I heard, it works on six, but not on seven experimental

[rare ferry]

Are surgery kits not used for minor injuries? It says they work on them, but for some reason my injured beavers weren't picking them up.

[woeful sun]

The screenshot is from version 0.6.9.4, so it should work?

[glass gull]

Is it intended that the polar beavers - which are described as having no real agriculture - are the only trade partner that gives away food for free?

[shrewd horizon]

Is it intentional - probably not. Polar beavers explore human ruins. Maybe they came across a frozen McDonald's 😄 By the way, I wrote to you in private about the translation.

[stone pond]

I would think the main thing polar beavers would do would be fighting off the polar bears for territory.

[stiff flint]

you're not thinking like a beaver.... if you put the polar bears on a treadmill chasing a seal on a stick you've got a new power source

[stone pond]

Good point

[stone spruce]

A mod loading on V7 isn't quite the same as it working. Different stuff gets loaded when you create a game than just hitting the main menu. WBO hasn't been updated for V7 -- it won't work properly when you try to load it in a world

[woeful sun]

It looks like you still have BepInEx installed. Step #1 would be to remove that

(you can just rename the directory to disable it too)

The crash comes from TimberCommons. So you could try disabling that too.

[fossil karma]

Oh uhh where do I find that?

[woeful sun]

ref: https://timberborn.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509174/how-to-remove-mods

and/or #🚀mod-users message

[fossil karma]

removing BepInEx seems to have fixed it >w<

Thanks!

[sullen cape]

I really want Sluices, but there was a reason why the dam drain was removed...
I feel like you'd need 5 recipes from the ENS just to balance them or something 😂

[radiant arch]

i kinda like the idea of it being more complex to beavers than any overdrive reactor
like really really overdone and with completely ridiculous detail (and price tag)!!

[woeful sun]

The log contained "Modded: true, unofficial" -- and a large error above that.

[glass gull]

it'd be cool if a sluice analogue could require a staff to operate it, and was left in some preset position when not staffed, but I doubt the game allows a mod to do that

[sullen cape]

It would have to be the most annoying preset possible of course 🤣

[stiff flint]

Sluices should be large buildings with a high number of employees who mostly sit and monitor the water levels in excessive detail that generate logbooks each day that need to be stored in a Grand Archive of Waterflow.... When the archive is full i guess we could have a tier 3 science building above the ENS

[radiant arch]

hmm.. maybe some day i can build this Dam-To-Dam-Them-All - with such an enormous sluice masterpiece at the center!!

[stiff flint]

it just occurred to me what is possible with the horizontal tunnels in the new patch.... drains

[glass gull]

I have no prisons and no working washing machine, can I recover? 😅

I'm shuffling the one beaver I have between working the water pump and building a jail to allow a breeding population to exist ever

I'm playing this as a sims game currently.Yamike, I swear, your work will not be in vain, just do it 🙏

Zircoy is a dumbass, there was water stored idk why they didn't drink it.

YES! A drought. I can deal with that.

RIP Yamike. Died because they went to work on some stairs on the other end of the map after I unassigned them and then would rather go to sleep than harvest the cabbage in front of them.

3 beavers are sitting in the jail

One of them died of old age, 2 beavers are sitting in the jail

Yeah, no, one of them will also die of old age before decontaminating

Yeah, only one beaver alive. Done.

[glass gull]

What's wrong with this placement of the buried tank?

[radiant arch]

those things on side and back - they need to sit "on top" of solid..

[glass gull]

Dagnabbit

[radiant arch]

well, with how it now works a platform might count as solid too?? (not sure how this changed)

[glass gull]

does the automated water pump work when submerged or do I have to put it downstream of my main reservoir in a 1 deep pool?

[radiant arch]

only up to 1m. and if i remember correctly only up from 0.3 or 0.35 or something

a point i always wondered about them: they only produce as much as 5 upgraded pumps, but not benefit from workers bonus.
so in mid/end-game they produce more like 2 pumps really. don't they?
imho only real benefit is them not increasing population versus the major deficit of placement constraints.

[shell fiber]

Sluices were planned at some point, but nearly everything in the sluice script is hardwired so it's very impractical for modding, or at least modding consistently with the rest of the faction, but I have a few workable ideas.

[shell fiber]

Also yes, they are too powerful maybe

[shell fiber]

Noted

[shell fiber]

Very good point, of anything they should be the only one to not have any food to trade 🤔

[shell fiber]

iirc the purpose was more to have something that can operate without beavers entirely so you can make a lazy society were everything is handled by bot

That's all for today ! GN !

Btw, I gave back my apartment this Monday, this week I'm clearing out some loose ends while staying at my fiancée's place, and I'll be moving to the next country early next week 😅
After that I start work again, need to find a place to rent, get furniture etc.

I'm not done with being busy 😅

[stone pond]

eek

[radiant arch]

all the best luck for it to work out nicely!

[spring heath]

Hi, I just wanted to check - do lotus self-spread (in U6)? Trying to navigate a lotus/nenuphar farm with some fencing but in its current state, needs the planted ones to spread across the fenced-in area, so wanted to check before I wait 10 cycles to realise it's not gonna happen lol

[radiant arch]

plants never spread when the ground tile is marked for planting

[spring heath]

I've unmarked them, should've mentioned :)

[radiant arch]

not sure anything but trees and brambles would

[radiant arch]

would be a nice exploit tbh

[spring heath]

yeah I was hoping it would be possible by design after the handicrafter rework but if not I can just remove then rebuild the fence to give farmers line of sight on most of it (even fenceless they don't reach the furthest two columns)

[radiant arch]

later on things will get easier and farm will have much less demand with advanced buildings

[stiff flint]

none of the plants that take up more than 1 square will spread.... grape vines make crooked rows when they spread naturally

[spring heath]

ah ok, thanks. for crops is that including vertically? as lotus are 1x1x2

[shell fiber]

Lotus should spread naturally if not marked for planting

And if water level is sufficient of course

[spring heath]

Amazing thank you knew I could count on your thoroughness

[spring heath]

me again 😅 trying to build a tree nursery on a p&l with platforms, but won't lock on top unless there's a platform in the... uh... ladder hole?

(here's it with ladder platform)

[spring heath]

issue being that I don't think they'll be able to enter the nursery through a platform

[shell fiber]

Uuh, I think they should be able to go through, I probably forgot to adjust something in the tree nursery.

Also you're better off having it face the other way, so you get extra range on the back 😉

[spring heath]

If they do indeed get through then that is the plan ty!

[spring heath]

update yes they phase through the platform haha

[stone pond]

I hope the moving is going well for Lapan 🙂

[halcyon trellis]

JC is going to start a U7 water beavers, hope it goes well

[heavy lodge]

Just asking with what mod ? Water Beavers may take a long time to be updated for U7

[halcyon trellis]

No clue. He said he was going to do it. I figured he knew something I didn't. Supposed to be Mondays video tentatively. Guess not if it's not up

[livid zephyr]

doing u6 for the time being, ep1 went up couple hrs ago

[shell fiber]

yeah U7 is not even started, but i'm working on putting my modding setup back together

[shell fiber]

it's going fine...ish right now.
i'm living in a hotel right now, and then i'll be moving to some sort of dormitory waiting for some vacancy to appear in the place I want to rent.

[halcyon trellis]

So like 24 hours turn around?🤣 Should be pretty simply updating the most complicated mod the game offers

[shell fiber]

I think it's honestly not going to be remotely as nightmarish as U6

Although there is some reworking the specification files 🤔

But that might be handled by a mass fix

Also, a small teaser for people interested : The tunnel script that swap the construction with a finished building offers... Interesting possibilities 😉😉

[heavy lodge]

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/undergroundpath#description

[glass gull]

Will we get underground ladder construction? That'd be awesome for enhanced underground verticality

[chrome solstice]

recently got back into playing after a bit of a break, wanted to do a playthrough but cant get past the mod loader, not sure if i should be asking in here or a different channel, appologies in advance if im in the wrong one to ask for some help.

[abstract vector]

Are you on steam?

[chrome solstice]

yeah, using modio for files

[abstract vector]

Just go to the steam workshop and subscribe to water beaver overhaul, it will download all the dependancies for you

Make sure you are not on experimental

[chrome solstice]

quick fix much appreciated.

[shell fiber]

That's within what's possible but I think that would be something I'd leave to tobbert

[storm gulch]

I don't remember saying U7 but who knows at this point, my brain is so foggy that I can't remember most of what I say in videos anymore

[halcyon trellis]

Maybe it was a fever dream of mine. Maybe I assumed 7 was out. Maybe the beavers have infected my brain ... Find out next time on Timberborn Z

[sullen cape]

Wow I forgot about the new District centres, I like the look of the cooking one!

Also: 💩
🤣

[shell fiber]

did I... ever finish the billboard mod for U6 ? i genuinely can't remember 🤔

anyway, small progress, i probably fixed the 1x1x2 storage mod and the 4 way district center

just need to test and hopefully upload whenever i find a suitable connection

i suspect updating the Whitpaws faction will be relatively easy... if we forget about the new added things.

what were the major changes already ?

• terrain on buildings
• terrain overhanging minecraft style
• ziplines & tubes
• tunnels
• anything else ?

[heavy lodge]

YA, power shafts.

[shell fiber]

ah

although... i'm not forced to implement that 🤔
i like to punish people who abuse omni shafts 😈

[heavy lodge]

it's enough to lock the shafts under science 👹

[shell fiber]

it's more about the cost in gears actually

maybe i'll add both

[nova crescent]

Please don't. 😭 Implement the new ingame power shaft please.

[abstract vector]

I'm in complete disagreement, I really like the new power shafts and what you can do with them

[shell fiber]

for the record, my main issue with it is that i don't want to have straight shafts cost gears, but i want to have T or X intersections cost gears, and increasingly more with the number of connections

[stone pond]

so basically just base game not punishing us enough right?

[shell fiber]

Well that is why this faction exists in the first place 😅

[stone pond]

true lol

[rose marten]

Hi first time posting here, thanks for making such an awesome mod! Having a blast with this playthrough so far, so challenging to balance production. Keep up the awesome work @shell fiber you're a rockstar 🔥 (also , the lack of Housing Optimize for U6 is really rough 🥲 )

[shell fiber]

Thanks !
Yeah house optimize was great. I tried to make the districts more usable but it's still a clunky mechanic at its core 😓

[shell fiber]

Nice fields btw 😉

[abstract vector]

I think either bobbing or apologist made housing optimize for U7

[heavy lodge]

Bob was

[nova crescent]

Ohh. I was asking him to implement the new in game power shafts only. 😂

[junior hatch]

Well, considering that they completely removed the previous non-adaptive shafts from the game... not implementing them is probably harder, unless you had already made your own version.

[shell fiber]

Yes I have my own variants, animated etc. Unless they massively reworked the mechanical power system it should be no issue

[sullen cape]

They already do for the solid ones

[shell fiber]

Can't we just put a platform on the non solid ones to make them solid ? 🤔

[wary panther]

Yes, except you can't transmit power upward through a platform. So the regular power shaft is a 5-way almost universal connector, the solid shaft adds the 6th upward connection

[sullen cape]

Oh you beat me to it Kevin
Platforms with holes in the top so power can pass?

[sullen cape]

In game you unlock two buildings, one universal power shaft that's not solid, and one solid universal power shaft. I would make the soild one more expensive. I can see it being punishing for verical power shafts though

Solid Power shafts in vanilla cost 2 logs, 1 plank and 1 gear
The gear seems expensive for a vertial shaft

[shell fiber]

yeeaah... i don't like it... it's kind of in line with what the base game is trying to be : easy, sandboxy and convenient, but i'm more leaning toward moderate realism.

Typically if the difference between the solid shaft and the regular one is that the solid one cost extra gears, it doesn't make sense since the only added thing is a roof over it, which in my mod should translate into a scafffolding item (=platform) being added to the cost.

i think i'll just keep it as in U6, i think the balance was good in the first place.

I'll also add the solid universal since it's likely not going to be much work, but i'll make it really expensive both in build cost and science so that it doesn't render everything else obsolete.

i've considered just keeping the straight shaft and then go with the universal non-solid, but then that means you would have to spend gears for a simple L shaft, which is really indesirable early game (the cart gives only 2 gears iirc).

or i can keep the straight and L shaped, then fuse the T, X and vertical L into the universal uncovered, keep the vertical T and vertical straight shafts, and add the universal covered. 🤔

that would make it slighly less annoying to plug new things on horisontal T shafts since they would automatically convert to X shafts 🤔

it's not a big issue to have T and X shafts cost the same i guess 🤔

[heavy lodge]

maybe, for the start, to make gear in the gnawingtent , and time to be 100 beaver hours ?

[shell fiber]

Hmm... Nah that would mean you can skip on paper and on the mechanics lodge entirely for all the non-blueprint things that requires gears 🤔

Too big of a shortcut

[heavy lodge]

OH, I forgot the pain to make paper 🤣

[astral harbor]

Yeah, my idea would be to have straight and L shaped ones available as they are now and then fuse all other variants into the "new" version with uncovered and covered (additional platform cost) . So this makes then easy to paly around in late game while being challanging in the early game.

I'm wondering if we get tunnels in WB 😄

That will be a cool and nice addition

[heavy lodge]

Who want more pain when have brambles ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwav0JYKm9Q 🤣

[astral harbor]

Do you know which map is he playing? Seems like a fun one after Lemon Canyon

[heavy lodge]

Ancient Waterways

[astral harbor]

Is anyone aware if the re-made Housing Optimize mod is working with WB?

[rose marten]

I’ve tried it thru the steam workshop and direct download, doesn’t seem to work on U6, won’t show in mod list and doesn’t have in-game effects that I’ve been able to spot. It does work for U7 however, so we have that to look forward to when our glorious mod creator updates to support it

[abstract vector]

It is not, new housing optimize is U7 only

[astral harbor]

Damn it, that's one of the most usefull mods to go along WB 😦 Helps big time with bigger colonies.

[wintry notch]

is the only badtide diversion the floodgate dam?

[abstract vector]

Yes, sans building a building to use as a dam piece, then demolishing it after the badtide

[wintry notch]

k thanks

[abstract vector]

Lapan is working on a sluice, but they've had some issues with it

[wintry notch]

thats fine, i dont really need a sluice. just wanted to make sure of my options

[shell fiber]

i have a plan for the sluice, but it would be fairly late-game, sluices are just too powerful.

basically the design i have i mind (not actually made yet) is a pit and ladder lodge which has one non-watertight voxel in which a sluice can be placed (aiming to or away from the central pit)

the interesting part is since that almost necessarily implies water falling down one level, the output of the sluice would be limited to 2,2 cms

and it also requires some creative placement solutions, otherwise you just end up with a soggy pit and ladder lodge.

[shell fiber]

i'm still stuck at the lab for a little while, but for now i seem to have logstairs, 4w district centers, and 1x1x2 storage up and running

for the most part i only had to update the specifications to the new format

but rather than rushing for the whitepaws, i would like to try to get my map editor and reader mods updated, and add the magic floating rocks to make floating island maps 🙂

[silk spear]

how do you add the mod in?

[silk spear]

I have royal messed up my waterbeavers plug in.. Help please

[distant wigeon]

Option 1: Make sure you do not have 2 copies of the mod active, the game doesn't like it when a mod is installed both through Steam Workshop AND Mod.io
Option 2: Check all Requirements are Installed. WB has a number of small dependency mods it needs to work right, and if you don't have them, things get messed up.
Option 3: Verify FIle Integrity. Steam will make sure all the game files are in good working order, including the ones from downloaded mods.
Option 4: Uninstall the game completely and do a fresh Re-Install.

[woeful sun]

oh, Hi! I updated #1258681137362899005 with WB 4.3.7 (yes, it's taken me that long), and noticed that BarelledWater (the recipe's DisplayLocKey) is misspelt (it has 2 ls instead of 2 rs).

same for FruitParfaits, where it's DisplayLocKey uses a Reciepe. key prefix (instead of Good.).

SteelSawblade is Good.SteelSawblade vs Good.Steelsawblade -- I'm not sure if keys should be case sensitive or not,

BalloonBanana has a similar issue, the prefix is Good. but should be Lapantouflemagic.

HoomanRelic has Good.BalloonHoomanRelic and should be Good.HoomanRelic

[shell fiber]

thanks !

[shell fiber]

whelp, i made something 😇

[radiant arch]

and i was told to not defy gravity...

[stone spruce]

resists the urge to break out in song

Joke aside though, that map looks like it could be awesome if we could find some way to effectively bridge the gaps

[shell fiber]

to be honest, i'm a pretty bad mapmaker, this is just a showcase map not really intent for play.

also i'm running into trouble with cristals hovering above ground not remaining valid on loading.

the ones that are on the first z-level actually are on the floor (which is hidden) and remain

the other just vanish

[radiant heart]

Just curious, watched EP3 of JC and wondering how having to barrel up water helps the weirdos playing hard mode? 🤔 maybe i'm missing the point since it's been almost a year i didn't toutch the game but that one got me wondering

[astral harbor]

In my understanding it's easier to store / transfer large amounts of water.

Normally Tar is a limiting factor for building large amount of storage early game, while you have access to Handicrafters right away and barrelling water only takes planks tools and resin.

3 barrels is approx volume of medium tank. Without required science and Tar.

[radiant heart]

i get that part, thing is makes the shower tanks useless prior to destroying the kart

[astral harbor]

Why so?

[radiant heart]

need fasterners iirc to make the hadicrafter

[astral harbor]

Ahh right, but I wouldn't say it makes them usless, as most of the time those should not be a focus at tha early stage

[radiant heart]

ever played that mod on hard?

[astral harbor]

When you try that on Hard Mode even on a favourable map, your concern is that by the end of Cycle 2 you need to already have District Center.

[radiant heart]

did a run without destroying the kart, on hard, just for funzies and see how far it could go

[astral harbor]

And how fun did you go?

Long term badtides on Hard Mode are annoying to the bone.

Unless you play very easy map

[radiant heart]

made it to quite a huge colony, self sustainade, 2 or 3 districts on lemon canyon

[astral harbor]

Yeah Lemon Canyon is built in a way that makes it possible

[radiant heart]

back then builders lodge were not fasteners locked tho so it was a bit easier then it would be nowadays

[astral harbor]

but for example the map that JCB plays now is most likely not doable on Hard Mode.

[radiant heart]

g2g, with the new way bramble works, that'd be a thing too

[astral harbor]

Yeah, the thing is that "planting" stops the bramble spread

[radiant heart]

there is always a way to abuse, just like having a "diying district" for the infected. In the end it's a solo game so who cares, runs as you want it 😝 been lurking at the new WB for a bit but got sucked into ONI big time, sure want to do a WB run in a near future but that's a lot of dedication of the little free time i have available

[astral harbor]

WB is really time-consuming to make any meaningful progress. Yeah there are some creative way for everything and to abuse everythning. For me it's just that brambles are the only mechanic I really hate 😄 Pretty much the only thing in the entire mod.

[stiff flint]

I wouldn't call brambles fun, but I've found so many different ways to deal with them they're not on the "problem that needs attention" list for long or often.

clearing large bramble patches out in the late game is labor intensive.... but labor hours are the solution to most problems at that point.

[astral harbor]

Late game i usually don't have a single bramble on the map 😄 Being focused on synthetically making them. Early-mid game is a pain of keepping them in check while keeping up with demand.

[radiant heart]

try hard and you'll find new things to hate, just realized the "aquifer" or whatever the name was are gone, that was SOOOOOO OP, guees i shouldn't have shared the "no water source map" with @lapan ... woopsies

love the long distance crossing thing, just hope bots can work in there

[astral harbor]

Yeah, they were stupidly OP 😄

[astral harbor]

Much more than that I'd be happy for migrating WB to U7, so Housing Optimize would work

This will be the most OP change, stopping Beavers from running around like headless chickens.

[radiant heart]

housing optimized started to break around 300 iirc, too many moving parts to manage the housing and they are supposed to sleep and they need to move everyday and whatnot... sure helps on effficiency but passed that my device was too weak sadly

[storm gulch]

This is AWESOME and I always wondered if doing something like this in timberborn was possible

[sullen cape]

That's amazing though!

[storm gulch]

Hearing from some folks that their Waterbeavers saves aren't loading because of load-bearing mods being updated

Are you working on stuff that might cause that?

[whole oriole]

yea cant load my waterbeavers with that issue

[astral harbor]

Yeah It's broken for everyone. I hope lapan can fix that. It looks like the mods went to release only with u7 files instead of dual version.

[slim junco]

Hi, I can't get a new game to start in a ffesh install of Whitepaws - it crashes to desktop with "Material Pink_wood.Whitepaws not found in repository" in the log. Any ideas?

[abstract vector]

4wdistrict center, logstairs, and 1x2 storage might need to be downgraded. It appears lapan is in the process of updating to U7, but didn't finish all the mods required

[slim junco]

Thanks, I'll leave it a few days until it's stable 👍

[shell fiber]

oh, oops

well good thing is, i finished fixing 1x1x2 storage and 4-way district centers, logstairs was already just fine.

and i managed to get a launch with my floating islands showcase map 🙂

also main issue is that...well i'm at work now, so i can't blatantly be modding on my computer.

i'll try to push a fix during a break or something

[shell fiber]

uploading now

if anyone is available to test it and report that would be great 🙂

[shell fiber]

also this one is up !
@snow scroll
@distant wigeon

[spring heath]

I just tried to load a fresh save, in LC then a vanilla map, and it crashed both times :(

here's the two reports in case anyone can make sense of them

[shell fiber]

hmm... unclear. are you on U6 or U7 ?

[spring heath]

U6

[abstract vector]

U7 ready to go?

[old kite]

I for one would never do video game related things at work

https://tenor.com/bc6q4.gif

[shell fiber]

No worries... Probably.
In part because I'm doing it on my own computer, and also because we have quite a lot of forced downtime.

But I don't outright play games at work, I just poke at things in unity, build, crash, repeat.

90% of it is loading time, during which I can still read research papers and whatnot.

[shell fiber]

I fixed all of my other mod, so next I'll be tackling the beast upfront 😅

But realistically 80-90% of the work will be hacking at spec files.

[heavy lodge]

you mean.... blueprints 🤣

[shell fiber]

Exactly 😅

[stone pond]

lol

[livid zephyr]

Same. Definitely not replying to this at work either

[stone spruce]

In U7 I can confirm that 4waydistrictcenter and logstairs work just fine. 1x1x2 storage causes a crash on attempting to load a new world. Removed all other mods except for those three and the issue persists, so hopefully this crash log helps when you have time.

[heavy lodge]

You are on steam with mods. Do a verity integrity of game files.

[stone spruce]

Sure, I can do that. One minute.

[stone spruce]

So the good news! Seems to have fixed the game loading with Lapan's mods only. The bad news is that 1x1x2Storage seems to crash the game if Emberpelts is loaded. (Obviously that's not something for Lapan to fix, just noting it here). Error report says something about clay material not being in the repository.

I'll pull the error report off my other post and post it in Bobbing's Emberpelts

[heavy lodge]

Already knows about Emberpelts crash

[stone spruce]

I guess I'll mention it to no one then XD

Thanks for the help, do appreciate it

[whole oriole]

says my texture pack is mismatched when trying to load whitepaws, log stairs and x1x2 fixed

[silk spear]

@distant wigeon thank you so much!!! I got it working!!!

[spring heath]

Is there a way to fix U6 on my end? I do believe it crashed after updating 1x1x2 storage so am I able to manually roll it back?

[stone pond]

at this point I'd say to wait two days and all will be fine

since we're literally that close to update 7 being released

[woeful sun]

Doesn't mean that the mod will be compatible with update 7

[woeful sun]

mod.io is the best place to get the older versions of mods, as it allows you to download previous versions

[shell fiber]

I should try to look into that before poking at the whitepaws 🤔

Also just for the record, I made a new thread for the #1369334828226314262

Hopefully the naming will be less confusing now

And since it's no longer about plants only...

[spring heath]

ty!

[storm gulch]

Everything is working fine for me, thanks very much for fixing the issues 🙂

[distant wigeon]

Oh that's great! Have fun!

[old kite]

Theres reports of it on steam so i assume youve seen it, but it looks like the texture pack v 1.1.1 update also broke U6

[shell fiber]

what ?
that shouldn't even be possible 🤔

goddammit

i mean is should solve itself in a couple of days of course but...

[shell fiber]

can you send me a screenshot of your mods active (and in which order) ? i can't seem to replicate that, works fine with me

[stone spruce]

Sure! Revalidated files, and went through and paired it down quite a bit, confirmed the crash is still happening. This is what I've got, U7 experimental:

What you see ticked are the only active mods atm

Crashes when attempting to start a new game on Emberpelts. Haven't loaded any existing saves -- they're all more heavily modded than that. Hopefully it's not a version mismatch -- learned from what Todor had me do above

[heavy lodge]

Crash happen on loading, too

[stone spruce]

The crash log, in case it helps. I can confirm Emberpelts is also loading with only itself and it's dependency script pack.

[rose marten]

Just Project Triumph left to build, maybe another abyss reactor but that was quite the project xD can't wait to see what this mad genius cooks up for U7 🔥

[azure steeple]

Damn that looks nice, i sadly can't get it to work. some error about a token 0100001b binto issue. Re installing, multiple verrfycations and tries to get the mods from mod.io still not working 😦

[shell fiber]

out of curiosity where are you going to build it ?

[shell fiber]

can you sent the crash log?

[azure steeple]

this one? or do you need the other one aswel?

this is with the mods from steam directly

[rose marten]

I got a 7x7 deep hole blasted down right in front of that balloon trader in the first pic, of course that was the second option after realizing the river in the main canyon was already too close to the map bottom to fit xD

[shell fiber]

i'll take a look, after i take care of the washing machine 😅

[azure steeple]

no worries, laundry needs to be done to 😉

[shell fiber]

ookay... i never saw that one before

one option could be the texture pack

you have 1.1.1 while on U6 it should be 1.1.0

except... well this mod is mostly inert so a crash because of it shouldn't even be possible

i'm updating that mod with U6/U7 compatibility just in case

[azure steeple]

i think i will wait till the update then, breaking my head and will to play over it for some days already 😦

thanks for the check anyways

[shell fiber]

ah-ah !

[woeful sun]

ooooo, you got the path into the right place, nice

[shell fiber]

somone was really distressed about the way they used to walk right through the first few logs 😅

to be honest i also wanted that fixed for a while

but since they reworked the navigation system to allow ziplines, this works too 🙂

[woeful sun]

Yea, I think JC commented about it in one of his recent videos

Do you know why the Map Editor Mod causes the game to crash? Is that a hold-over from how it worked in previous versions? (and maybe fixable with update 6 or 7?)

[heavy lodge]

Map editor is working only in editor. Must be disable during normal playthru

[woeful sun]

but why?

[heavy lodge]

only lapan can answer

[woeful sun]

The Map Editor Mod on mod.io should have the texture pack listed as a dep too (currently not listed)

ahh, nm I will post in https://discord.com/channels/558398674389172225/1369334828226314262 instead

hmmm, seems to be something related to allowing crops to be planted in the map editor mode,

[shell fiber]

well the map editor mod kind of cuts open the guts of the game and flip it inside out. i have to rewrite crops as tree, make everything a common natural ressource etc.

in theory i could make it play-compatible, but that would mean making carrots sunflowers corn etc common crops, but then i need to also add in the items, then the needs etc. that's just too messy.

[marble panther]

Hello! Can anyone suggest a good map for 1st playthrough with WB that is not lemon canyon or the other map JC is currently playing?

[shell fiber]

i think gentle canyon was pretty nice to play on

good opportinites to build a dam, fairly flat land etc.

[old kite]

I would absolutely not recommend the map JC is currently on for a new water beavers player lol

its been a nightmare

[astral harbor]

But a decently fun nightmare

and has perfect place for gravity batteries

early on

[shell fiber]

it's probably not the worst map i've tried to play on, at least in part because it has enough farmable flat space, but it seems like it will be quite hard to get rice growing anywhere, the only suitable place is the river itself, but you're at the mercy of badtides :/

[old kite]

a lot of it is pretty inefficient for irrigation lodges, imo. Some pretty extensive dynamite work is probably in my near future on it.

Rice i didnt have the worst time with, but i prioritized floodgate dams pretty early

Its probably just worse for me because im not a micromanager, so i tend to just brute force stuff. It leads to more population lol

[shell fiber]

don't forget that the consumtion of irrigation logdges scales with the area irridated, it's not very important to use it at its full potential.

[shell fiber]

okay i couldl reproduce this, let's poke at it now

[old kite]

Its just an annoying amount of them to use/path to for me. Also its extra housing. ....I say as i have like 300 beavers and dont have the ENS actually built yet

[radiant arch]

i like to use the same approach and just throw another couple of hundreds of beavers and third foundry at things

playing diorama with WBO taught me the other extreme though - which was fun

[astral harbor]

Rice is really simple actually. You have the river sections that are cut off (always dry) and they are just big enough to be filled in by single lido with fluid dump.

[astral harbor]

I've done it entirely without floodgate dams. I rushed the tech tree to get the anti contamination irigation loges.

and right after I got the dynamite, i grabbed a handfull and carved a 2 wide channel on the north part of the map. It just enough to cut off any water from entire top right part of the map giving a huge always safe space for farming / trees / rice

You need only like 12 ot 20 pieces, I'm not sure

so this can be done early on

and afterwards you can place water wheels there to produce insane power. Right beside them you have those big hollow "towers" which are ideal place for gravity batteries. Midgame two of them can power you though all droughts (190k per battery).

In my opinion it's too easy to cut off 1/4th of the map from water. This makes it too easy to grow. 😄
I only ofc run into the Hauliers problem now, but that's nothing new.

Transitioning into late game will be a pain tho. Squoias and bamboo require huge amount of land which this map doesn't have

@shell fiber have you changed anything regarding farmhouse between v5 and v6? I do have a gut feeling they are like 25% slower then they used to be, farms and farm upgrades.

[old kite]

One of the nice advantages to this map that i dont see on very many is the entire map has a good amount of dirt under it. Like the lowest height youre at is probably about 4-5, so if you want to dynamite out a pond later for bamboo, it'll be doable

[astral harbor]

Yeah and you have "pre made" pond on the top side that is 3 deep

can be initially used for lotus and then transition into bamboo

[old kite]

excuse the mess, but this one? lol. I always consider that the bottom of the map. Minimap disagrees, but its not like i ever look at that lol

the floodgate dam diversion works really well there. It holds enough water to make it through a normal drought, so its set it and forget it with floodgate triggers.

[astral harbor]

That is the bottom of the map. At the top near those two natural towers (other side of ruined aqueduct). Let me load my save and show it

[astral harbor]

I find it unnecessary since I use Lido + Fluid dump and irigation towers for everything else 😄

[old kite]

ah, right now ive got badwater running that way. Im still figuring out how im going to redirect the center source without messing with aqueducts

[astral harbor]

I'll show you 🙂

It's stupidly easy 😄

[old kite]

oh, i have some plans. I just dont wanna lol

[astral harbor]

Oh game still crash for me on u6 😦

[old kite]

mostly because it'll mean moving a lot of water pumps

[astral harbor]

Right near the aqueduct on the top sude, just make a channel to the edge of the map that is 2 deep

this redirect all of the water (handles water flow easly)

gives you power opportunity and cuts everything to the right from bad water (actually any water)

and you don't need to mess with aqueducts

[astral harbor]

Got it to load finally

[stone spruce]

Best of luck! I have no idea what's going on with it, or I'd try to help 🙂

[shell fiber]

i don't think so 🤔
to be fair i don't remember much of the state of things at the end of U5 but the farming balance as a whole is more or less the same as the vanilla game, save for the 1 worker / farmhouse

[astral harbor]

Ok, maybe it's just my feel, but it takes them longer time to work on crops (less efficiency) compared to how it was earlier. But maybe it's just a feeling, nothing more.

[shell fiber]

what was your crash already ?

[astral harbor]

Steam being dumb and not updating. It showed me that I have latest version and it's not compatible with U6. Unsubscribed and resubscribed and that magically worked. 🙂

[astral harbor]

@shell fiber do you plan on fixing the name of the Lemonade Stand? It keeps showing for me this weird editor name instead of nice string.

[silver quartz]

Thanks so much for updating. U7 i get a error on new game (about Pantry mod) anyone a solutuin ?

[shell fiber]

Uuuh, this mod is not up to date for U7

And pantry... Who knows

[shell fiber]

I'll check 👍

[astral harbor]

Out of my curiosity, why did you remove the lumberjack addon? 😄 The one that could go on top of the irrigation tower + lumberjack? I saw there is a new version that looks like a Farm upgrade, but it's not as useful 😦

[silver quartz]

I cant run whitepaws without the pantry mod

[stone pond]

as lapan said, WB is not updated for update 7, and pantry I doubt is either

[silver quartz]

sorry im a noob !

[shell fiber]

no worries, if you want to play this mod, your best bet right now is to get steam to rollback to U6

or to wait until i get the mod fixed, but i wouldn't expect that to take less than a week

[shell fiber]

Fixed, will be out with the next update

[astral harbor]

thx

[silver quartz]

🙏

[shell fiber]

I've spend one hour or so mass editing the specifications, most of them are relatively simple so I don't expect a lot of things exploding.

What remains is the stuff that has been rewritten quite extensively, like the needs that can cause death, display alert message etc. And all the vanilla needs that I edited.

After that the fun part begins... reviewing every single building in existence 😅

[heavy lodge]

Don't forgot about the issue with configurable house mod.

[shell fiber]

What ? 😅
What does that mod do ?

[heavy lodge]

Change the dwellers number with a multiplier

[astral harbor]

@shell fiber after updating the specifications mod will "work" in U7, but with none of the U7 features right?

[shell fiber]

The 3d terrain will be functional since it's a game engine thing, the zip lines will need some work, and the adaptive power shafts will mostly not be included

[rose marten]

A true masterpiece xD well worth the wait! Such a fun mod, time to re-roll another map

[astral harbor]

How many Beavers and Bots?

[astral harbor]

Which way will you implement power shafts? Will you stick with the idea of keeping the non modular ones (straight + angle) as they are and turn all other variants into a modular? I'm big fan of this approach and hope you'll do it this way.

[shell fiber]

I kind of want to know how many beavers were... erm... watching ?

[shell fiber]

Not all other variants, but either way for now I'll go through the path of last resistance, IE change nothing.

That is honestly low priority as long as the existing system is functional

[rose marten]

A couple hundred witnessed the launch, they were left flat on their backs in awe xD

[marble panther]

Is it possible beavers are not eating rice balls? I've had full storage for multiple cycles now, full storage of mountain salt and the salt mine paused, and yet both rice balls and salt are not being consumed

There's also no rice balls in the wellbeing tab (with all the other foods)

[radiant arch]

it's fine to fully skip rice balls imho - they never worked for me either

i kinda assumed beavers select food in order of what gives max wellbeing - so they might eat rice balls last, just before (or after..) starving

[marble panther]

I'll keep them as reserve food I guess. I thought it might be a bug, since I thought it weird they have no need for it

What I meant is: is it intended they get no wellbeing bonus from rice balls?

[radiant arch]

only Lapan would know - but i guess it makes sense, as rice has no benefit itself (i believe)

[shell fiber]

Yes, it's basically a calculation between how much wellbeing a good item gives, how long the wellbeing lasts, and how much a beaver can actually eat in that time.

Basically the answer is that if you keep the usual decay rate of food benefits, your beavers can only really enjoy a maximum of nine different foods. (Same for drinks)

So... choices choices... I removed the food wellbeing value on most raw food and on the "boring" cooked ones. The drawback being that indeed they will never go for those food if there is anything else giving wellbeing to eat.

[marble panther]

Good to know, thanks

[stiff flint]

If you build extra storage for the rice balls you can accumulate them slowly from a single production building.... it's an easy emergency food supply.

[marble panther]

Yep that's exactly what I've been doing, just a single cooking tent on lowest priority served by haulers

[cloud flax]

the pantry mod is causing some issues with the game loading? cant seem to even load my game

[distant wigeon]

Is tha Pantry mod even updated?

I'm not sure if any of Lapan's mods are updated at the moment, unless I'm missing something.

[cloud flax]

so to WB, revert back to U6?

[distant wigeon]

Not sure, prolly better to just wait or try vanilla, or try other mods.

I'm personally waiting. I NEED the 2-tall storage mod...

[stone pond]

thought that one was supposed to be updated?

[shell fiber]

This one is updated

Right now I'm working on the faction, there's a bug I don't understand so I'm loading things step by step see when do things explode

[distant wigeon]

Huh, odd, I tried running it earlier and it crashed. At any rate, trying again today and it works fine. Weird...

[west yarrow]

Is there a place for feedback or suggestions of this mod?

[abstract vector]

Right here, start a thread if you want

[west yarrow]

I havnt played the mod yet but I’ll be trying it either soon or when its comparable with update 7

I want to use a faction with heavy water usage in different things

[west yarrow]

whats the estimate on updating it for update 7?

[west yarrow]

how do I make a dam...

like control flow and not just block it off

[radiant arch]

every solid house is a dam. primitive dams exists too, which can be upped to 1.65m with researchable extra

beavers can walk underwater, entries can be too, for most buildings

(text tells in special cases, like upper floor of large farmhouse)

other than that only the floodgate exists, which needs special resources (like tar) and must be researched (needing paper and either architect or mechanic lodge)

floodgates can be set to specific height - and work with mods automating them

[west yarrow]

hmm

so id need to flood an area

seems like a good mod but isnt gona scratch my water beaver itch unfortunatly 😦

[radiant arch]

yeah, i guess this mod is more about depth and complexity
and that huge single dam to flood it all, packed with hundreds of tiny busy beavers

[west yarrow]

im fine with that but I just wanted a more vanilla esk water focused beaver faction

[marble panther]

Where can I find a reference picture for medium mine dynamite placement?

[stiff flint]

4440
4440
4443
1233 ..... I think that's the right dynamite placement with the entrance next to the 1 (it's been a little while)

[woeful sun]

There's also one on the billboards (see the ? help menu)

[shrewd horizon]

Once again this Picture

[marble panther]

Thanks I managed to do it without messing up

[marble panther]

I must have missed it

@shell fiber a small suggestion: you should improve the description of the mechanized water pump to include an indication of the required water depth. I just spent like 3 cycles building and tearing it back down multiple times because I couldn't figure out why it didn't work (I got it working now)

[marble panther]

Something like "requires water depth between 0.5 and 1 to function" or whatever the correct values are

Maybe I'm just stupid but it took me a while to figure out

[shell fiber]

unless i have a breakthrough i might need a couple more weeks to fix the faction. i made the game more complex and have a stronger feeling of development of your colony, including technologically.

but the core design idea is that instead of having "dam blocks" you can pile up at will with no restriction, you have to build your dam out of houses (that may also be factories, hauling posts, farms etc) which means your population will expand.

so it's not a "do X and forget about it" type of gameplay like for example the invertor's hut. you'll have to think about expanding your food and water procution several times, same for industry etc.

[shell fiber]

okay, i'll add it to the backlog of things to fix but right now i have my hands in somethign else. if i forget about it don't hesitate to remind me.

[west yarrow]

yeah it does seem pretty interesting but atm im just looking for something a bit less intense

[radiant arch]

off-topic, but i absolutely love that intense moment of everyone witnessing the launch of the final wonder 🙂

[marble panther]

Do irrigation towers speed up growth? Brambles specifically. I have the impression that when I turn it on brambles spread more quickly

The normal tower, not the super fertilizing one

[shell fiber]

No the normal tower doesn't do that, neither the big one for that matter

[marble panther]

Yep, for some reason I have weird growth cycles where one moment I have plenty of brambles and the next they're gone. Must be something else

The super fertilizing one does state in its description +15% growth on crops, I guess brambles don't count as crops?

[abstract vector]

Heads up irrigation towers seem to be broken for U7 still

Not sure if yours are your own, but water extension ones are broken

[heavy lodge]

In TimberCommon script, the part that handle the irrigation tower, do not work , YET, in U7. Need time for Igor to fix-it.

[marble panther]

I don't think we can play WBO on U7 anyways, I tried right after it came out of experimental and it crashed on startup

[shell fiber]

I use the timbercommon scripts.
Ideally I would like to not rely on other mods for critical parts of the gameplay but I just really like irrigation towers.

Note that last time I asked irrigation towers coming back base game was "being considered", it's possible that they had shelved it simply because they knew they would nuke their own system with the 3D water and 3D terrain. So once the dust has settled, maybe

But either way lido irrigation remains available, I think

[marble panther]

Is there any difference between fermentation house and fermentation barrel, other than the obvious that one is a house/dam? Any advantage of one vs the other?

[radiant arch]

exactly that by now. barrels used to be smaller and without worker - but that not worked with hauling priorities (a big issue with this mod). so they are identical now.

[shrewd horizon]

If I remember correctly barrels not expand your colony by 3 additional beaver (not a House) and that is too a difference

More beavers - more problems, less beavers... you know

[shell fiber]

well there's progress for me... i've been smashing my head against a wall for a while now, but now i know which wall ! 😅

[marble panther]

Nice! Same vibe as "getting a different exception than before, progress!"

[marble panther]

How does the clinic work? Do I have to make its recipes (e.g. surgery kits) for it to cure beavers, or do they get cured regardless, just less efficiently?

There's no "visitors" section like in the medical beds, do beavers still go inside to get better?

[radiant arch]

they are supposed to fetch and consume their meds

there's two levels, minor and major, to all conditions

minor will heal very slowly without treatment, faster with basic treatment.

major should only heal with treatments made by clinic

[marble panther]

Ok so if I'm not crafting the recipes from the clinic, it's basically useless, correct?

The description is somewhat misleading: "more efficient than a rest bed and can use medicine to further speed up recovery". I interpreted it as "medicine will make them heal faster, but they still heal without it"

I remember from JC videos last season that the clinic had visitors, maybe that changed in U6 and the description was not updated

[radiant arch]

dunno. usually have them make meds and not watch them closely. also pharmacies (under district centers) manage much of the distribution

was under the impression that they not get visited in U6 if they not provide anything

can confirm that with deluxe stew and advanced meds the beds are not visited anymore

[marble panther]

I dunno, I have 12 injured beavers right now, minor injury, and 15 surgery kits, but it seems they prefer to go in the medical beds

[radiant arch]

highly recommend the deluxe stew

[marble panther]

Yeah not quite there yet, I need those nanuphers for methane

[marble panther]

The recipe is not selected though, I made them earlier and they are still stored in the clinic, maybe this is why? I need the recipe to be active?

[radiant arch]

no. would assume they only fetch them for major injuries. not sure what would be intended

[marble panther]

Yeah makes sense

[marble panther]

@shell fiber found a (very minor) issue with floodgates, they only synchronize with those on the left

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/15663248251081941815/7F0120F465CACA50BBB64308FFF571E2B573BCF2/

[shell fiber]

Good point, the description is from an older version of the clinic, I should update it

[junior hatch]

Possible fast travel method for Whitepaws? (Unstable portal that explodes it loses power)
#🚀mod-users message

[shell fiber]

Hmm... I never noticed that... Interesting.
But probably hard wired on the floodgate behaviour, not sure I can do anything about it.

Also most sane people would just build one floodgate and lvl 2 dans dams for the rest 😅

[woeful sun]

That would be perfect for whitepaws because it could require nuclear fuel to power

[marble panther]

Wouldn't water still get through with lvl2 dams?

Ah you're probably right, don't know why I didn't think of it 🤣

Well it's built now...

[radiant arch]

lvl2 dams go up to 1.65m height, flood gates can reach 2.0m - so technically floodgates are superior!

[marble panther]

This is for badwater diversion though, not supposed to retain water upstream. I just didn't realize I could have built normal dams.
But thinking about it now, I stand by my crazy decision, permanent dams would have significantly altered the flow downstream which I cannot afford (I have mechanized pumps with wheels generating just enough power)

[glass gull]

At the amount of ledge blocks just downstream, having a 3-wide flat section wouldn't limit the flow I think

[marble panther]

There's another branch of the river on the left, you can't really see it in the video. If I built permanent dams it would partially redirect flow that way and probably reduce the output of my power wheels. I can actually test it with the floodgates desynchronized

[marble panther]

The 3 floodgates on the left are set to 0.65, the last one is fully open, unfortunately not enough power. With all floodgates lowered I get around 1300 hp

[shell fiber]

hmm...progress ?

[woeful sun]

pretty

[shell fiber]

the main issue i was facing for the last few days is that in U6 i had crudely replaced the plasteredwood texture from the folktails with the birch skin texture, but in U7 that makes the game very upset for whatever reason

but i at last managed to cirucumvent it.

[radiant arch]

if you narrow the stream on level of the wheels they power up - currently part of the power just flows beside them!

[shell fiber]

more progress 🙂

InvalidOperationException: Prefab with component ModularShaftParts not found or multiple prefabs/components found
Timberborn.PrefabSystem.PrefabService.GetSingle[T] () (at <8a6850ec1b7f4889a178fd31f16fed9e>:0)
Timberborn.ModularShafts.ShaftFrameFactory.Load () (at <a251454bf5614b53a6894b0c2d30c3aa>:0)
Mods.MoreModLogs.SingletonSystemPatch.ErrorReporter (System.Action fn) (at /home/normanr/src/Timberborn-MoreModLogs/SingletonSystemPatch.cs:53)
(wrapper dynamic-method) MonoMod.Utils.DynamicMethodDefinition.Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadSingletons_Patch0(Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadAll () (at <c8e0fcfac4bd466ea3d8b5a972c6f304>:0)
Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleUnityAdapter.Start () (at <c8e0fcfac4bd466ea3d8b5a972c6f304>:0)```

[shell fiber]

the oversized waterpump keeps crashing 🤔

[distant wigeon]

Oh god is u7 forcing you to remake the mod from the ground up???

[shell fiber]

Not really, every building has a little quirk to fix here and there, but i can load and fix 5-10 at a time.
Right now I got the essentials to load (plants and planter buildings) then grabbed a bunch of water related buildings and loaded them with minimal issues

But I guess in a way... I'm basically rebuilding it block by block

[marble panther]

Lapan, can we have ziplines?
We have ziplines at home.
Ziplines at home:

[radiant arch]

love those waste-water-cooled smelters

[distant wigeon]

Oh yeah, I really hope BatterySmooth Updates the Most Treated Plank mod someday. I miss that mod.

[shell fiber]

good news, i've been able to load a bunch of buildings without seeing any crash (yet) so if things are keeping up like this i might have a test version soon-ish 🙂

i have to specify right now i'm at the stage to see if things load, not testing if they cause the game to crash as soon at you look at them the wrong way.

[abstract vector]

[shell fiber]

would people be upset if i got rid of the rooftop terrace ? tbh i never really liked it 😐
not sure what i'd put in its place though.