Water Beaver Overhaul

[radiant arch]

oh wait.. you could replace them with roads easily, couldn't you?

now i feel stupid for glaring at them for so long ..

[snow scroll]

In was just frustrated with my map for not enough pump room when I realized I hadnt done the upgrade let alone the deep pump jump

I often find my perspective was skewed... Or I have been stuck in a pattern, defining insanity over and over!

Oh Insanity... Posted an early version of Cliffs of Insanity. Hard Start. Pretty map. I think after breeching early game it will work out.

Im back on the Companion myself

Im liking the new fermentation barrels, a productive labor suck with heavy chestnut n rice farming

[snow scroll]

Hrmm. the overhang are not considered ground in all cases.

[snow scroll]

Took me a bit, but....

I wonder if my water issues have anything to do with all these lovely fermentation barrels😅

[stiff flint]

once the fermentation barrels are full they don't pull that much water (they're only getting refilled every 2 or 3 days when a batch finishes).... bbut if you build several at a time it can get thirsty out there

[snow scroll]

Yes, a caveat of my "Zerg everything " platystyle

for you young'uns, thats a Starcraft reference.

LaPan, I know it is temporary but, as hard as the mod is, the free lido?water dump, makes me think you do care for my sanity🙃

[radiant arch]

somehow building a 2nd or 3rd ENS feels too fast as it essentially instantly builds when resources are ready

maybe having that one build like a wonder (very slow) might be fitting too?

was allowing bots to work in regular crossings still okay with you? (so hard to fit that huge building in late game, and kinda sad to lose the far-distant-mode)

[radiant arch]

the bot-hauling-station marks the entry tile in the middle - that one does not work, as entries are left and right of it only. this one got me confused..

[shell fiber]

I was thinking about putting the science lock again, but in the advent of the irrigation towers dying again (almost guaranteed with the next update) I'll have to keep it as an option

[shell fiber]

Yeah but each of those is actually quite a lot of work

[shell fiber]

In the middle ?🤔

[bitter storm]

Will you be making terrain cheaper?

[radiant arch]

i not want to start a new game with any less than 100 well-being like it reached now...

[shell fiber]

Probably an accident, I'll try to fix that, remind me if I forget

[void vault]

where are the mod patch notes

[snow scroll]

Called change notes, a top tab on the mod page

[void vault]

you mean the mod page on steam, the mod thread here, or the mod page on some other website?

[snow scroll]

In Steam,

[radiant arch]

either work. mod.io has history, steam has version history. scrolling here has too, but hard to find

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/water-beaver-overhaul "view older versions" under download

[void vault]

Thank you! never noticed that tab before lol

[snow scroll]

We like to be stumped and have LaPan clear it up later. ask anything here too!!

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Seems like something is broken with Faster Growth mod.
This was working previously with your mod also.

[snow scroll]

Prolly need to drop this in that mods thread...I am not familiar with it. Emberpelts enabled same time is no good. You have a ton of mods goin on... may need to pare down some. The changing nature of this mod can make each load, with extras, a gamble.

I know that wasnt the first option you were searching for. Another may have better in fo for you.

[nova crescent]

Not really. Something got changed in latest updates. I had this set of mods playing with water beaver from long time.

Last version that I tried and was working is 4.2.6.

[snow scroll]

4.3.1 is temperamental. Thankfully Steam didnt give it to me. Im runnin 4.3.0 from Mod.io

Check change notes and to see if you notice anything there that could change your outcome🤷‍♂️ Only LaPantoufleMagic is under the hood...

[snow scroll]

Looking at it again, Try verifying files. Also A Buncha Items you are giving yourself have been removed or updated.

Oh and make sure to remove bepinex and remame your plugin folder

looks like you are getting repeat references. Bepinex could be the culprit.

[shell fiber]

to be honest i often change so many disparate things that i can't really keep track of everything

[shell fiber]

no idea what this mod does or how it does it

[shell fiber]

hmm... there was some wierd 3rd layer to the L and T aqueducts that don't seem to serve any purpose, that's probably the reason

[woeful sun]

hmm, I can't find the 'More Plants ! Reader' on mod.io. Is it missing, hidden, or am I missing it somehow

or is it combined into a single mod now? (More Plants ! Mapeditor reader)

[woeful sun]

Did Rice get changed anytime recently?

[woeful sun]

Myabe remove Rice from the FasterGrowth config file, does that help?

(probably not)

[nova crescent]

Don't have rice in the config file.

Strangely everything is working in 4.2.6.

I am getting this for rice and grape vines. When I click on plant trees or crops icon.
@woeful sun @shell fiber
Any idea what might be causing this?
It's complaining about rice not being in the dictionary.

[shell fiber]

i don't think so

[shell fiber]

that's probably this one, sorry for the names not being very consistent

[shell fiber]

the prefab name for rice is "Rice.Whitepaws"

maybe that can help

oh also you made me remember to fix the map maker grapes not showing with the whitepaws

[woeful sun]

ohhh, multiple different District Centers?

[woeful sun]

https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/u6/ updated for 4.3.0 wb release

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber @woeful sun It happens with every tree and crops.
After opening the plant trees and plant crops. The moment I hover over any tree or crops it crashes, and the error mention the name of tree or the crops.

[snow scroll]

Almost seems a mod creator tried incorperate Whitepaw, but had a different naming scheme

[shell fiber]

uuh, well i don't want to appear uncaring, but honestly that is for that mod's author to deal with, i have no idea how that mod works

[snow scroll]

kinda what I said

[shell fiber]

of course if i can help with providing data to help fix it, i'm glad to help, but i can't debug his thing

[woeful sun]

yea something in their patch is accessing missing data, which it should handle

(but doesn't)

so just disable the mod for now,

[woeful sun]

The keys that it's looking for are the name assigned to the object in the prefab, so it should be valid

[nova crescent]

No issue @shell fiber . Thanks for looking into it.

[shell fiber]

turns out i had forgot to add the specification that made beaver refuse to work when they have a minor injury 😅

(i made a duplicate of the injury spec to remove the injury rate warning from buildings)

[radiant arch]

sometimes it's a little sad you notice those little things (never even considered looking at it and worried now haha)

[radiant arch]

4.3.2 did not break anything for me but for removing a single airship involving platforms on the lattice roof of a wine cellar.

oh, i take this back: it seems to have removed any platforms on those lattice roofs and some roads been blocked. but nothing major.

[stiff flint]

Why haven't I been placing bad water pumps like this before now?

[radiant arch]

that way or placing a hauler directly on top of the pump - entry facing into a depression on the side of the river, waterproofed by the hauler, is my usual method

you usually have enough dynamite from the initial cart for the big one even.

[snow scroll]

Nice! thats even better. I also blow out a stairwell, taking more alchemist juggling.

[shell fiber]

oh, damn that's pretty smart 🤔

[shell fiber]

i think the big one will eventually be promoted to 'mechanized'

oh, also i had an idea to make districts more workable

[stiff flint]

Thinking about the bigger pump the pass through lodge would allow a water sealed door kiss and leave room for the power connection

[shell fiber]

basically i can expand the gauge for thirst and hunger (right now they go from -2 to +2)

but if i make it go to let's say +5

[snow scroll]

There is a power connection front and back , same side

[stiff flint]

good to know.... i've found them so hard to place correctly i've sort of avoided using them

[shell fiber]

if i make it go up to +5, if effectively take more time for them to starve when you run out of food (or water) but effectively consumption is unchanged

[snow scroll]

Can you delay this 3 or 4 cycles?

[shell fiber]

and that allows me to make some "condensed" food items that refill +5 thirst at once (while the "water" item fills 0.3 or something)

[shell fiber]

what do you mean ?

[snow scroll]

The ability to get an injury.

its stressful seein em run around and being so far from science to be able to address it

[shell fiber]

so effectively i could make lunch boxes or bottled water that beavers would rarely consume on their own, but to supply one district 30 water bottles would effectively amount to transfer 500 water

[shell fiber]

it's already there, always has been

the only thing i did was remove (not actually removed but that's hidden) the old injury and add a new "minor injury" need that is exactly the same

[snow scroll]

Maybe its just the rapidly grown population that makes it so prominent

[shell fiber]

so effectively a large district that produces a lot of things would have less trouble keeping a small district alive simply though the magic of exports

[snow scroll]

seems as it would free a lot of beaver repetitve trips

Does it put you back into the "buffet" issue of trying to fill it w/o monopolizing the food chain?

[radiant arch]

for me it works fine to have a crossing serve up to 30 beavers fully with anything. and for bigger colonies have them get foods from more than one crossing into a central foods & drinks / party square

thought i end up with at least 1 in 7 beavers working in crossings that way

and many haulers moving them around the districts

placing crossings and food stocks in the center of the districts (next to homes) solves long ways quite nicely too

[shell fiber]

oh, that's good information... so you can supply basically 30 beavers without them having any farms nor any waterpumps ?

i was thinking about adding a small well to help with districts that have no acccess to water, but i guess that is not meant to be

otherwise, if i really want to make ressources dedicates specifically to exports, i can just make a thing that compacts 1000 water into an item, have one bulding pack it, and one building unpack it

but that's... sloppy at best

[radiant arch]

greatly depends on the supplier having enough stock and workers and short ways though

[shell fiber]

do you also need a lot of storage requesting stuff for imports to work efficiently ? like time i followed by district exchange beavers... they were not efficient at all

[radiant arch]

are there many resources that need mass transport? beside water?

[shell fiber]

not sure

[radiant arch]

not efficient at all, no. often carrying one item again and again

having huge stocks helps with that, as they can fetch more from a storage at once

[shell fiber]

i see

...

hmm... i think in the long run expanding the beaver's food gauge is probably the safest option, but if water is the only really problematic export, i can have the handicrafter make large barrels for exports, and have them unpacked in whatever custom building i come up with

[radiant arch]

would that be exploitable for storage?

i found limited water storage and transport range is one of the bigger challenges in mid-game

[shell fiber]

basically my idea in my current run is that rather than having a bunch of mushrooms growers and fermentation barrels scattered around and all manned by beavers because hauling doesn't seem to work that well, i could make a mini-district that just has a couple haulers and manage a crapton of those

[shell fiber]

not something i would let people abuse

[radiant arch]

i use that too. merged with a central cooking district that also has emergency water pumping capacities

would be curious to explore more of those micro-options

yet it needs some planning, as it needs a few haulers (3-5?) and the manned crossing(s). maybe a temporary builder or two.

likely would always be tempted to add my mech. kitchens to it though. and want plenty of water in it for those

having no need to access water or pumps might be a big change to make them super efficient

[stiff flint]

that sounds like a job for trebuches....

[shell fiber]

I actually thought about a ranged district crossing that would be using trebuchets, but alas, the game doesn't like weird shapes for district crossings

And they must physically touch

[stiff flint]

would using water barrels to feed fermentation barrels and mushroom growers help or hinder the problem?

[shell fiber]

Yeeaah, I guess kitchens also require quite a lot of water...

[shell fiber]

Basically to do that I would need to duplicate all the recipes to have one using just water and one using barrels

So the cleanest solution is to have the handicrafter of whatnot make barrels of water, and have a small unmanned building that consumes barrels to give water back

Then the beavers can just tap into that

[radiant arch]

supplying kitchens with barrels would seem nice too, skipping the unpacking from imports

[shell fiber]

But the question is wether I should expand the beavers thirst gauge

[stiff flint]

is there a name for a building where barrels are made?.... if a cooper makes barrels would it be a coopery?

[shell fiber]

Difficult

[radiant arch]

yeah, i guess..

[shell fiber]

Or I need to make the barrels just default on every recipe

Which for some buildings is somewhat acceptable I guess

[stiff flint]

barrels as default might also sort out the problems with having less than the minimum amount of water for 10 different buildings at the same time

[radiant arch]

actually that's one of my most common troubles: needing a new food to keep up with demand and kitchen having way too huge stock and beavers dying from thirst

[stiff flint]

in theory i want to have the resources to fill the recipe requirements to full when a building is completed or unpaused.... everything works better when you have a supply surplus.... in reality the juggle between food/water/population is the real challenge of the WBO

[radiant arch]

challenge.. having 5+ districts and wanting and them all to have max well-being requires a lot of gold bars.. and that 2nd overdrive reactor too.. and it's taking almost more time to gather that over completing anything else haha (as it should! love this!)

having all in a single district can actually save up a lot of time too - and require much less beavers and food and all

oh and late-game challenges: beavers seem to not eat enough and not manage to eat all food types too often
and they are bored of rooftop stays and low-value attractions if they not have all day for them
so they more stay around 100 rather than 118 sadly

and they claimed to miss the frog statues ehem

[snow scroll]

All except the gathering at the pump. A tied in aside...Far side of thee Lemon Canyon deep water river, now with only pumps and no aquifier... Barrels would be wonderful.

[shell fiber]

Oh just a reminder for myself, we also wanted to have more decorations right ? People were saying a 2x2 fountain would be nice, and a bucket of tools was it ?

[snow scroll]

And a water slide/ water egress/ladder/fun

or somthin similar heh

[shell fiber]

Okay then, I'll look into the recipes that could use barreled water

[snow scroll]

Perhaps even as a primitive dam upgrade option. or could be single wide, must be on a Primitive Dam but can make a 2wide 3, a 3 wide 4 etc...

depending on material cost. if cheap mats the single wide if metal block+ then on top 🤷‍♂️

ermm, will all the water be held up in the handicrafter though? waiting for enought o fill the next barrel.. can barrels be dumped into\ tankls? or is there an intermediate?

[sullen cape]

Thanks for working on Districts!

On my first playthrough I had/have a farming district and a science district. Unfortunately I ran out of room in my farming district for Sunfowers, so the beavers would eat all the Sunflowers before they got sent to the science district. Guess I need moar farmland next time heh

[radiant arch]

i always have my science district farm their own foods to not rely on imports conflicting with science

usually it's easy to add deluxe stew on top of that and do some chestnut beer on the side with log-harvesting for mushrooms

[stiff flint]

my districts tend to be semi-autonomous with their own farms and water pumps.... there's a lot of efficiency gained just having the beavers homes and jobs closer together

[shell fiber]

i've taken a quick look at the recipes and it's not really that convenient, some recipes cost 10-ish water per loop but that cannot be easily replaced with one barrel holding 100 water.

so compacted water for cooking is probably not an efficient way to do

but expanding the hunger and thirst bar is still on the table

[radiant arch]

guess i'm glad as i like the careful planning involved in having surplus water and a special district with cooking close to big pump capacity

gonna suffer some in early / mid game and on maps with limited pumping spots 🙂

[shell fiber]

yeah it seems clear that a cooking district needs its own water supply

and i see no way of making something that could be an efficient source of water without being something that could supplant water pumping entirely

[radiant arch]

might result in some kind of super-adapter-big-building like the overdrive reactor, just for docking in kitchens or something haha

[shell fiber]

ah, also i finally realized one thing : if i increase the thirst gauge max from +2 to +5 i effectively give each beaver the ability to store 10 water in its belly, that is quite a lot...

even in an early game when you have 50-100 beaver, that's 500-1000 water storage for free

that also translates to 4.2 days of drought

so you could pretty much ignore them entirely

so it's not a good idea

i can still make a water fountain that consumes barreled water to generate water, that is still pretty easy to do and allows survival amount of water to be carred pretty easily

that should suffice to make a cooking district if not efficient at least viable i think

[snow scroll]

Could/Should chemistry and civil science DC's be combined? The Metallurgic, for clarity could be Metalllurgic/Industrial?... Still struggling with the dcs

Batches of beavers either hungry, tired, or thirsty. they seem wanna check in at home before satisfying needs, rather than grab something on the way.

[radiant arch]

for simplicity i do that too. also add the abyss/ nuclear part to the industrial one to shorten ways (and either needs load of workers or building supplies)

[snow scroll]

Hrm, Ya they are awesome, but too specialized, for me. I must group my building different.

[radiant arch]

as chemistry does need little import, usually it is easy to set up small storage for that imho

and you already have some alchemist and stuff for science anyway

not sure considering them "absolute" is needed at all

i commonly tend to disable imports of some stuff in DCs manually as needed

and found cooking DC unable to empty cauldrons weird for example

[snow scroll]

Maybe i need to run a tighter ship. rely more on in house storage rather than bulk, then thjough, nuttin seems to kick start efficiently

[radiant arch]

all red roads and duplicate storages. hmm. can imagine that being inefficient

the screenshotted part is a good district basically, size-wise

imho

[snow scroll]

Ya, still single district, tyrin g find the seperation and ability to keep the parts happy

[radiant arch]

you tried setting it up in a way you can connect the centers of each future district with distant-DCs? that worked nicely for me

also: they import rather quickly, so as long as the crossings are close they not need to serve all needs alone

[snow scroll]

I may need to switch palettes(map)

One really needs this District planning early.

[radiant arch]

can help, yes

they tend to grow very inefficient and slow otherwise.
though you can quickly recover from it usually.

[snow scroll]

Its keeping em alive till then heh

oh wait, thats not funny

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Is 4.3.2 not available in steam? When I am subscribing it's downloading the 4.3.0.

[abstract vector]

I believe it's mod.io only while he fixes sqewer platforms, try at your own risk

[snow scroll]

Ya, 4.3.2 can break a save. if new game go ahead w the Mod.io version

[shell fiber]

By the way, no big issue with that version for now ?

[radiant arch]

only tried an existing save for a little yet. was fine. (only lost a few platforms formerly placed on lattice roofs)
not yet tried to see what new placemens it allowed 🙂

[radiant arch]

hmm.. can no longer attach neither overhangs nor skewers to a ladder 😭

[bitter storm]

Means ending of overhangs can't be a ladder?

[radiant arch]

i see a massive rise in giant pillar demands..

[radiant arch]

you can have them survive savegames, but you can't place new overhangs against a ladder. or attach a skewer to a double-ladder like before

[bitter storm]

Hmmm...

[radiant arch]

basically you need a support pillar or something now i guess

oh, you can't attach them to double platforms either.. that worked before

tbh those changes make perfect sense. as would not being able to exploit shafts haha

just not sure people "expect it" to be unable to attach a light structure like an overhang to a solid metal frame like a ladder

[radiant arch]

can't place the exercise plaza on top of log bridges 😦
(can place it on top of other solid things between log bridges and plaza)

hmm.. not being able to build mechanized pumps on natural overhangs might be limiting for my current map.. (all the sea floor is overhangs haha)

[radiant arch]

just noticed: lost a balloon trader - platforms atop of ladders are lost too

or wait.. it was corner-overhangs fixed to ladders.. yep

[stiff flint]

other than looking sloppy are there any downsides to having water go over a dam that wide?... sloshing or performance concerns?

I'm probably going to blast a channel on the bottom side of the dam to focus the run off into the river bed and eventually place automated pumps along the river bed

[radiant arch]

only heightens the upper water level, never seen it have much other effect outside edge situations (sudden narrowing width + splashing)

With 4.3.2 what i find difficult is how skewers work on solid housing
but not work on ladders and long storage / pit storage only
yet work when pit storage / ladder is in front of supported building
or always work on large industrial pile for example

it's so arbitrary what "solid" building is a support and which is not - confusing

also there can be restrictions from below similar to overhangs for skewers sometimes, yet not always. seems to be just harder to place them next to an overhang.

mega platforms: they anchor below the trusses, so they can visually float one layer above pillars

this is true also for aqueducts using the same layout for anchors

another weird thing about new skewers: you might place them against wall / natural overhang just fine. once you build something on that wall / overhang or just behind it might no longer work to place them somehow?
can't figure out what causes this exactly.. seems somewhat random?

another change: can't seem to place overhangs at giant pillars anywhere but the top now. before could hook them anywhere on them

[shell fiber]

ah, i was considering allowing that, i had made them ground only but i guess the question of overhangs is a fair point

oh, crap, the voxel occupancy of this building was completely unfinished

[shell fiber]

yeah... i understand your point, i'm probably trying to acccomodate two incompatible things with this stackability resttriction... i need to think about it

[shell fiber]

there is some logic behind the curtains, but yeah, this is a mess

i'm probably better off just dropping the stackability restiction entirely

i really don't like the idea of overhangs extending infinitely thought

[snow scroll]

the bridges still attach? for building the ladder stacks?

[radiant arch]

bridges work. giant log bridges too.

ladders can be stacked just fine

shafts be exploited all the same

just how overhangs attach and skewers seem changed

[abstract vector]

I know we have different ideas of fun, but I like that idea

[radiant arch]

and you can't build platforms on lattice roofs no more

[snow scroll]

ahh. back to U5normal heh

[shrewd horizon]

And a beautiful glass ball with snow or rather gold dust 😉

[snow scroll]

Pssst... pretty sure thats a squirrel. I can tell because it isnt a mongoose!

[shrewd horizon]

Ai is not inerrant 😄

[snow scroll]

Wait, so you Can put a mongoose in a snow globe?

[shrewd horizon]

Better?

[snow scroll]

Nice. But its stilla squirrel. When I caught mongoose I spray painted em so could see em and name em. My boss drowned em but I couldnt

[snow scroll]

Is the civil and Science DC the only one no can builkd/enter from bottom? Maybe add that info line to the new DC's also

[rancid tulip]

I see that HousingOptimize is nolonger on the list of mods... has it failed to migrate to steam? or just failed to exist?

[snow scroll]

Failed to make it through U6 hurdles

sadly and greatly missed

The creator isnt responding even. Please if know how....

[rancid tulip]

makes sense, it was a little complicated. . . at one point I was considering trying to learn how to make it more complicated. . . but I never got much beyond reading the existing old code and being 50% certain I understood how it was doing what it was doing

[radiant arch]

maybe a lil beaver on top?

[shell fiber]

hmm... i don't want it to just be a scaled down version of the FT fountain 🤔

[radiant arch]

yeah, forgot all about those..
it's lovely enough as it is

[shell fiber]

i'm making a decorative one, and one that also serves as a drinking spot for unpacking water barrels barreled water

i don't really like the tiny entrance on the side, it feels... unsymmetrical

maybe i'll make a 1x1 model for that

[rancid tulip]

Do.. I have something wrong with my Forestery Hauler Upgrade. It says it's not connected to the town... but it's built on a forester beside a tapper's shack. It has an arrow out the front. but that arrow is 2 floors up and has part of the tapper shack below it so ... I can't build up to it? 'is confused'

and I can't get a flowerist's balcony to be legal to build close enough to use that way in.

ok. I think I can get at in from behind.

. .

[rancid tulip]

ok, yup. maybe the arrow could point to the back where beavers can enter/leave? unless there is a way to use that front enterance and I just missed it

[distant wigeon]

The 1x1 fountain version can be a birdbath, and Beavers visiting display upside down with their head inside the bath.

[snow scroll]

The arrow is also accurate. Easy is covered liquid tank, dbl platform, couple curved stairs and 1x bridge. There are many ways. My first ever was another 12 beaver affair before I was able work it out.

[shell fiber]

in principle you should be able to access from the front with a ladder and a small bridge 🤔

for the small drinking spot i have edited the Ironteeth small brazier

i think it should look nice

[shell fiber]

wip

[bitter storm]

Noice

[halcyon trellis]

I like it, but are we now putting round pegs in square holes? Didn't think this was possible

[radiant arch]

more like decorations

[shell fiber]

it's just 3D modelling at the end of the day, nothing that complicated

[shell fiber]

ugh, normals are flipped because i tried to mirror some buildings

also the glass doesn'ts look even remotely as good as i was hoping

i can probably come up with some trick if i try hard enough

[snow scroll]

Nicely detailed. I see an alchemist.... What am I lookin at? Town center? Snow globe?

Barrel emptier?

[bitter storm]

Seems to be a snow globe

[rancid tulip]

Oh, ya I don't have ladders unlocked yet, so coming in via the back door worked.

[rancid tulip]

I take it we also lost automatic levies. Ie connecting the floodgate dam to a depth gauge and opening or closing automatical based on contamination / depth?

I see it still exists, but is not part of the default settings for water beavers now

[shell fiber]

You can add this mod, it works

[rancid tulip]

I thought it used to be built in.

but yes I have added it since.

It's strange that in the end game the 'WATER' faction of beavers are so much less able to engineer water than all the other factions. . . I don't know how to fix that without undermineing the core challenge however?

[stiff flint]

the places water leaves the map is the best place to put a couple of automatic water pumps.... blast enough space for them in front of a primitive dam to keep the water level correct to operate.... assuming they're powered while water is flowing a set of 6 pumps can fill a huge amount of water (about 1k of water per pump per day if it's being unloaded by hauler bots)

the manual beaver powered pumps don't scale well into the late game

[rancid tulip]

I was thinking more along the lines of sealed pressure containers that are possible in the base game, combined with sluices make for quite impressive works of water control.

the endlessly stackable levies making mega dams a 'trivial 'thing to build

[stiff flint]

i play most WBO games with bad tides turned off.... on standard sluice automation more or less trivializes most of the water management problems anyway

water canons are the only WBO approved method to make water move against gravity.... technically using nuclear power towers to add high elevation water also counts

[rancid tulip]

there USED to be those pre-sluice buildings with the hard to push into place water pumps build in that allowed for anti-gravity water. I had a fully functioning perpetual motion machine in my previous build

[stiff flint]

the funny part is that WBs don't really require 24 hour continuous power the same as standard... no bot workers so no 24 hour labor requirement.... you can solve for power with a couple of gravity batteries and waterwheels.... perpetual motion machines are fun the first few times but they're a lot of work to solve a problem you probably don't have by the time you turn it on

[rancid tulip]

Yup. watching a youtube of somebody failing to get a perpetual motion machine running was a big part of why I purchaced the game

not practical but fun to abuse the engine

[stiff flint]

getting a colony to 2k beavers is the only type of engine abuse i'm interested in right now... I'm going to want some bigger buildings

[rancid tulip]

2000 waterbeavers. Yikes. that is a BIG colony

[stiff flint]

if something breaks I want to find it

[rancid tulip]

and that size you will

[shell fiber]

Hmm... The snow globe is causing me trouble 😓
Or rather the glass bubble is hard to get correctly

[shrewd horizon]

In what program are these objects created?

[thorny pelican]

That's quite an abuse of computing power

How many FPS on what kind of machine?

[arctic olive]

Computing power abuse, is the only abuse I approve of

[stiff flint]

with standard beavers i've gone upto 1500 and everything was playable.... for WBO i've stalled out around 1k population before i "escaped logistical confinement" and crashed the colony

I've been playing "lazy" the last few weeks and advancing my current colony slowly while overthinking my options.

3 year old mid priced gaming pc..... i wouldn't say my computer is anything special

[radiant arch]

never knew batteries can go beyond 1M wow (did not exploit. just a very very high up cliff)

quad terrain limits mod is nice 🙂

regarding resource distribution i found dirt to be tricky somehow: transport to other districts is very lacking for me, most of the time!
either it blocks at the drills or a single clay pit can hog it all (4-6 drills here).
now building things in other districts is very slow. and even basic needs as GMO can randomly go down to 20% productivity for a couple of days.

this is true also for sawdust to some degree - balancing burners and imports, but keeping a gnawing station can supply a cooking district just fine. for dirt that is more tricky.

either gets somewhat better with bots and their weird carrying capacity, but having enough of them is unusual until very very late in the game

regarding bots: weirdly the most limiting factor to mass-produce them is bamboo shoots. only got around 300 of those plants around and serving parfait and burn medicine too. (a bot a day takes ~222 plants i think)

[shell fiber]

well "waterbeavers" was really a prototype name for the faction. but now they're the only ones living in houses that are actually watertight, not making a human-like village on the riverbank

[shell fiber]

that's exactly the problem, it's just too easy, there's no thinking involved, plop a thousand dam blocks and a couple sluice and you're good, that's not interesting, at least to me

[shell fiber]

blender mostly

but timberborn doesn't have any proper transparent material

at least no tinted glass or anythign

the best you can do is use a PNG that has transparent parts

[shell fiber]

yeah i think bamboo shoots are one of the main bottleneck many people seem to talk about
edit : +120% production of bamboo shoots, sorry everyone for being super long to fix that 😣

[shell fiber]

specifically, production time 10 -> 8 days
yield 3 -> 6

actually that probably makes +125% but whatever

[rancid tulip]

yup. I am just trying to think up a late game solution that lets the faction do a better job in the late game then the default factions can do in the early mid game.

[astral harbor]

Hi everyone. I've been away for a while. I see a lot of development have been done. What is the current status of the mod on steam?

Is it playable or there are still some things missing?

[snow scroll]

Definately playable, AND a work in progress. LaPantoufleMagic is ironing out kinks as we find em.

Fine tuning, balance and that Magic Polish that is done all happen organically it seems! With our input anyway heh

[radiant arch]

playing right now feels like 90% is perfect and only missing the wonder. though sure that lapan has more planned still

[astral harbor]

that's good news 🙂

Time to build another 1000 bever colony

😄

[snow scroll]

That'll happen on its own. My issue is wittleing it down afta it does

[radiant arch]

never getting the nuclear overdrive reactor without at least reaching 800 beavers

so waiting for the patch on faster bamboo harvesting for bots

and hopefully the option to deploy bots to district crossing directly

(the bot-crossing is too huge for no reason)

[snow scroll]

I believe so too. cant sustain the resource chains unless. Yet I believe more research is required!

[radiant arch]

true true

overproducing anything in the end might be avoidable

and tbh half my industries are just set up for a single worker since i'm too lazy to switch them by hand

[astral harbor]

Yeah, 1000 is a sweet spot. Initially I managed to grow to nearly 1500 😕

[snow scroll]

Ya was gonna ask if we could get a mini bot standby. Especially w the potential ease of the new District hubs/Centers @shell fiber

[astral harbor]

I mean on large maps space shouldn't be much of an issue

I also admire for splitting into districts

Setting this up sounds like a real pain

[snow scroll]

I still try keep my map under 256 just because my machine chugs with all the B.s.

[radiant arch]

my machine is so old it is barely hitting 12 fps for a 192x192 map..

on lowest settings

[astral harbor]

Ah ok 😄

[snow scroll]

More research required. A Plan early WILL make a difference. the Long Distance crossings almost need to go in as soon as you have the science. to reserve the space

[astral harbor]

I'm playing on Lemon Canyon, but fortunatly I can run x3 speed with 1000+ beavers. Getting like ~20 fps

[snow scroll]

Sweet! witch Lemon Canyon?

[radiant arch]

x3 speed.. would be lovely..

[astral harbor]

That sounds like an interesting challange

[astral harbor]

It was on v5 version. Right now will start new one.

See how for I can push it

[snow scroll]

1.08? Showcase? earlier like JC?

[astral harbor]

I started my playthough right around the time v6 was reaching release date. So It had to be some relatively fresh version. Definitely newer one then the one JC used. No clue sadly which it was.

After Steam mods showed up

I've done fresh install

removed everything

to make sure no conflicts or anything

I've tried already v6 (the latest in steam workshop) version and I see some cool changes there

[snow scroll]

Nice! LaPan n I pretty proud of that effort! let us know if the map isnt quite working...

[astral harbor]

I've done the JC Apocalypse challange on the new version of Lemon

With Ironteeth and Emberpelts

Map works perfect, there isn't anything I would change on it

Ideal mix of annoyance with challange

It is my favourite map of all maps 😄

[snow scroll]

heh, I prefer to call it "tedious"🙃

[snow scroll]

me too!

[astral harbor]

But it's ideal for Apoclaypse challange

As it's one of a few maps that allows creation of massive water reserves with "relative" ease

Watching JC struggle with that was so fun xD

[radiant arch]

that challenge is about 100-day-droughts?

[snow scroll]

How does that differ from a normal JC run? heh I am comfortable with that tease only because he is way better than I.

[astral harbor]

100-day drought, 125% water / food consumption

[radiant arch]

tough

[astral harbor]

50/50 chance of badwater

instead of normal 60/40

[snow scroll]

OH Damn!

[radiant arch]

that is possible?

[astral harbor]

Yeah

I made 60 cycles

[radiant arch]

awesome!

[astral harbor]

Let me grab a screenshot xD

sec

Ok it didn't save on steam. Would have to reload the save

But generally

it's doable

once you get to number cruncher it's doable

[radiant arch]

hmm. sounds fun to try on that map

[astral harbor]

Yeah, obviously not with waterbeavers

I've done it with Ironteeth

[snow scroll]

Go team Pink! I gotta get to the paid werk heh

[radiant arch]

haha, no way with waterbeavers

emberpelts work too?

not played them yet

[astral harbor]

Yep

Done that challange with them too

It's actually much much much easier

Emberpelts felt like cheating

[radiant arch]

that's curious

maybe i will try them first 🙂

[astral harbor]

They are imbalanced

As you can produce food that counts towards thirst

so you eliminate need of mass storage of water

[radiant arch]

what???

ohhh

[astral harbor]

Emberpelts have "juices"

[radiant arch]

that multiply water?

like lemonade and stuff in WBO?

[astral harbor]

You take 1 apple and get 2 juice

[radiant arch]

what???

[astral harbor]

juice counts towards thirst

[radiant arch]

that's cheating

[astral harbor]

and once consumed beavers don't need to drink

yeah

Found one screen I sent to my friend

From that challange

😄

[radiant arch]

that's some serious water storage you got there

[astral harbor]

Go with Ironteeth

it's challanging

but doable

I will not tell you secret on how to beat the map and mode with it

Have fun figuring it out 🙂

JC got it wrong in both attempts 😄

But my screenshot shows part of the story if you look on it closely enough

@radiant arch https://youtu.be/fQG8WALh5sc?si=dRCMNBjGN8pbrzdB&t=60
Here is the JC settings for Apocalypse mode

starts at about 1min 1:10

[astral harbor]

It appears that old maps stayed in the folder. I reached this 1500 beavers on v 1.08 of Lemon 🙂 Curious how it will go with the newest version now.

[snow scroll]

@shell fiber Another secret entrance, the Library 2nd floor. The Prioritize Hauler button still appeared in warehouse> havent seen a B use it but system considers it pathed.

definately using it heh

[shell fiber]

right now this is where i'm at 🤔
maybe white with less surface coverage would do it

[snow scroll]

looks like it is snowing...🤷‍♂️

[shell fiber]

there's no particle inside yet😉

[sullen cape]

I got 2M from the top of the map!

[shell fiber]

seems about as good as i can make it

hmm... from a distance the glass just vanishes...

tbh i'm not super into this

the snow globe as a whole 🤔
i'll keep it around (no point deleting it right now) but i'll wait a bit before adding it

[distant wigeon]

Would it be possible to use the Water material? Does the Ironteeth Hydroponic garden or Food Factory have any transparent components?

Alternatively, have you considered a buckyball?

And then use the Gigargantuan pile glass texture?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminsterfullerene

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesic_dome

[snow scroll]

Heh, I thought Fulerene was an OxygenNot Included made up material like regolith.

[shell fiber]

i tried and it really doesn't look good

if i could make a sort of frame around every triangle it would possibly work, but i'd have to make an entirely new texture

[distant wigeon]

Yeah, I was thinking you could frame every triangle. Or you could make it out of Hexagons and a few pentagons like a football. The football method may actually look better. (Soccer Ball for my fellow Yankees, not the pigskin)

[shell fiber]

hmm... problem is that blender generates spheres out of squares, not as a proper dodecahedron 😥

note that i could probably download that from somewhere

[distant wigeon]

Ooof, you would need to model a dodecahedron. Or yeah, download one.

[shell fiber]

i tried to make the snowglobe a lot smaller (1x1) that looks a lot cuter, but it's also making the distance issue on the fake glass more apparent

regarding the barelled water, it is quite costly so you probably wouldn't want to abuse it as storage

and when you empty it, it only gives 100 water

slowly

but that should be plenty enough for keeping a small district hydrated

and the barreled water is set to import all the time everywhere

now that i think about it, i probably should make the tank showers use barreled water instead of regular water, since keeping beavers clean or hydrated is essentially the same waater access issue

[snow scroll]

I see it now, fuel remaining... .soo, 6 water an hour to empty

[shell fiber]

0.05 per loop so 40 water per hour no ?

[snow scroll]

im not math competent but thats sounds a lot more reasonable

I just realized how much actual water the paper mill uses (example of poor math making a Pepetual Newb)

[snow scroll]

Has Methane always been in the Mech Drill recipe?

[shell fiber]

i think so

also just added barrel-fueled reciepes for the irrigation tower

[shrewd horizon]

It looks really nice even without glass, so for now you can leave it without and if you manage to think of something you will simply change it

[shell fiber]

i'll see what i'll do with it

in the meantime : do you often struggle to find your handicrafters ? i'm thinking about changing the color of the walls to make them pop a bit more. probably Ironteeth red plasteredwood or something

[radiant arch]

that would seem helpful

usually placing them in very exposed locations that are easy to remember

yet often find i have 1 or 2 extra just cause i "lost" them again^^

[shell fiber]

ahah

mine is here

[radiant arch]

looks soo easy to spot haha

[silver phoenix]

maybe it works better if you use the same approach as your greenhouse, e.g. a more defined framework with glass inbetween. it'll be less round but it will still look like a sphere

[radiant arch]

minor mismatch with heights

[shell fiber]

completely unrelated, but i really would like to have one more 3x2 watertight building (like the cooking house)

i already have a crapton of 2x2

do you have any suggestions ?

i guess the handicrafter could justify having more workspace

[snow scroll]

Only 2x2 I use often is handicrafter. may now with Districts practically required,.

But, I have been placeholdiong with the original DCenter, for the builders. then can check balance of district before placing the specialized one

[radiant arch]

beaver magic - they build the unreachable ladder stack behind the platform just fine
but they can't reach the giant log pillar next to it
neither can build the platform without the other pillars ready

it's cool how they sometimes build things where not expected
but feels like i will never understand their logic (if they have any, being beavers)

[shell fiber]

ladders have a special script from tobbert's mod that allows specifically ladders to be build from the bottom of a ladder stack no matter how tall they are.

but i don't really see why they wouldn't manage to build the bottom most pillar if they can reach the ladders 🤔

[radiant arch]

they can't reach the ladders at all haha

or maybe they can reach over the not-yet-buildable platforms or something. dunno (they never did visibly approach the ladders either)

[stone pond]

love the quote on that ^_^

[radiant arch]

regarding bots: i feel it's lacking something with no consumables for them. a little speed boost from them would be nice too. like bramble-nuclear-cookies or dunno

but not fully sure if the very primitive bot isn't best balance-wise as is. just there's at some point so many of them and still they can't really compete with the far-distant crossings for things that get passed in small quantities.

my regular beavers are around 30% faster and have 128 tiles less to walk per exchange. hmm

[shell fiber]

hmm... i'll think about it. maybe they can consume some oil for lubrification or something 🤔
but for me the idea is to make them a solid investment in the sense that you can build them and then they run forever, if the more you have the more stuff you need to maintain them, that quickly becomes less interesting

[radiant arch]

yeah, i see your point

[shell fiber]

oh, i thought the ranged crossings also accepted bots,

letme correct that

and yeah, the bot crossings are kind of obsolete

[radiant arch]

that would change a lot!

[shell fiber]

i'll try to push my current version now

i've also removed the platform self-stackability restriction

but the side platforms still can't be chained forever

hopefully that doesn't break too many things (i removed the several redundant duplicates)

[stiff flint]

a 3x2 building with a door on the narrow side would be nice to have.... even better would be a 3x3 with 2 or 3 doors

[shell fiber]

i've thought about a pit-and-ladder segment open on 2/4 sides 🤔

but that seems like a really shitty place to live 😅

[shell fiber]

in which situation would you want to use that ?

like the small bad water pump right ?

generally dams are pretty happy being 2 thick, i never really felt i wanted more 🤔

[stiff flint]

putting primitive dams on top of buildings so you can control the location of an outflow from a reservoir.... primitive dams are the only options that have a height less than 1

and some personal opinion on "Beaver Perfection".... beaver lodges should be under water in the center of the ponds they create..... and also I just like the "door kiss" method of construction

[radiant arch]

primitive dams not always work atop buildings - sometimes they are impossible to build (you can place them, but they never start building)

[radiant arch]

imho center of the dam works fine for me too, with a lower and upper pond / river

i love having the entrances underwater too - and a row of roofed water pumps as top layer, giving some primitive dam vibes

is this a problem? (invalid BlockObjects) edit: this is just lost stuff due to placement conflicts, isn't it?

and getting a weird new exception:

InvalidOperationException: Sequence contains no matching element
  at System.Linq.Enumerable.Single[TSource] (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable`1[T] source, System.Func`2[T,TResult] predicate) [0x00070] in <78e29e3c9350441c83ba23ba1abe8e2c>:0 
  at Timberborn.Stockpiles.GoodAmountTransformHeight.OnEnterFinishedState () [0x0002f] in <46709c7d46ff4d469d8795412ab9b385>:0 
  at Timberborn.BlockSystem.BlockObjectState.NotifyOnStateEntered () [0x00014] in <74e881a832694112b6ba7707436d7f34>:0 
  at Timberborn.BlockSystem.BlockObjectState.InitializeEntity () [0x00011] in <74e881a832694112b6ba7707436d7f34>:0 
Rethrow as Exception: Exception while initializing: TankShower.Whitepaws(Clone)
  at Timberborn.BlockSystem.BlockObjectState.InitializeEntity () [0x0003c] in <74e881a832694112b6ba7707436d7f34>:0 
  at Timberborn.EntitySystem.EntityComponent.Initialize () [0x0002c] in <fa615ac334be4cb7ba337534feed5553>:0 
  at Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.InitializeEntities (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable`1[T] entitySaves) [0x00014] in <55b4d06f69f94754b54ba48393e08756>:0 
  at Timberborn.WorldPersistence.WorldEntitiesLoader.LoadNonSingletons () [0x00030] in <55b4d06f69f94754b54ba48393e08756>:0 
  at Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadNonSingletons () [0x00010] in <83c35e71bcfd4e238b263c72f0ec19cd>:0 
  at (wrapper dynamic-method) MonoMod.Utils.DynamicMethodDefinition.Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService.LoadAll_Patch1(Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleService)
  at Timberborn.SingletonSystem.SingletonLifecycleAdapter.Start () [0x00000] in <83c35e71bcfd4e238b263c72f0ec19cd>:0 

as it related to the TankShower it seems different somehow. so far multiple saves not worked too

[astral harbor]

New version keeps crashing for me 😦 What happened

[astral harbor]

I've got the same error 😕 Is there any fix for this or is it all lost?

[radiant arch]

dunno. waiting for lapan to fix it likely

[astral harbor]

I will be unhappy to do a new game xD

[radiant arch]

not sure it only relates to save games that have a tank shower or is conflicting in general (new games included)

trust the guy to fix things

this happens at times with mods

[astral harbor]

I hate steam for no ability to reverse to the old version 😄

[radiant arch]

oh, there is mod.io

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/water-beaver-overhaul

you can place the older versions in the mod-directory (and temporarily unsubscribe from steam mod version)

path is like .local/share/Steam/steamapps/compatdata/1062090/pfx/drive_c/users/steamuser/Documents/Timberborn/Mods for me (linux)

[astral harbor]

Thinking what is the best approach. Becuase lapan mentioned that this is destructive update

so there may not be any fixing for old saves

[radiant arch]

it does change the way overhangs are anchored

so you might loose some of them

and anything build on top of those lost overhangs

in rare cases platforms (like when they were placed on lattice roofs like with the wine cellar)

[astral harbor]

I didn't get to overhangs yesterday. So that's not the case. I think the shower may be the destructive one.

[radiant arch]

tbh: i just use the dev-mode to reset the lost stuff and take from storage what was needed if it was more expensive

oh, losing stuff will never breaks anything cause a crash. it's just gone.

that's what lapan meant with "breaking update"

[astral harbor]

Yeah, but game just doesn't load. I wouldn't care to loose items

[radiant arch]

for that one we need to wait

can't play either

[astral harbor]

Ah ok, now I get it

[radiant arch]

so excited for the bot-option on crossings. just got my production line up to almost one bot per day.

[fair bone]

Is there a picture on how the primitive mine is supposed to be placed? been trying to figure it out for a while, but im having no success

[snow scroll]

For More Dam freedom and kissability. leading to utility.. Also for putting primitive dams on for raising retained level;

[radiant arch]

this one

[radiant arch]

you did mean the medium mine? here's the layout to access with straight stairs.
you can safe some dynamite using curved stairs or ladder.

[fair bone]

no i mean the primitive

i cant place it

[radiant arch]

primitive mine needs a wall exactly two high

and empty on top

[fair bone]

is there a picture?

i dont understand that tbh

[radiant arch]

can't start the game right now..

[fair bone]

oh a 2x2 cliff

that helps a little

[radiant arch]

you basically have the mine below, and the little red crosses go on top of the cliff

[fair bone]

ohhh i found a spot

aight ty

[snow scroll]

So dont upodate to 4.3.3? not yet if can wait?!

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber What to do in this situation?
I have full scrap metal and it's not generating steel saw blades because of that.

[nova crescent]

Working fine for me though. No issue.

[snow scroll]

sweet. kk.

[radiant arch]

might be only the tank shower that breaks save games

[snow scroll]

More storage!

[radiant arch]

why are your limits so much higher??? mine are like 50 scrap metal and 15 blades.. unfair!

[nova crescent]

I didn't had tankshower before update.

[radiant arch]

i'm always having a storage for that switchover, which i pause / empty otherwise

[nova crescent]

Oh mods. Toooooo many mods. 😂

[radiant arch]

and a huge storage for the sawblades (like 50)

so regarding the crash: if i load my save with old version, remove the tank shower, load with new version, it should work?

[snow scroll]

Ya There are a buncha TMBPL mods that are supa cheaty. The balance to not lose the reason behind the complexity of Whitepaw is important, I feel.

[radiant arch]

and lapan is kind enough to fix weird balancing asap

[snow scroll]

exactly. and Whitepaw Faction is a challemge run any and everytime

[radiant arch]

so is! after building anything possible, now i want 500 bots and 2k beavers on my map! haha

already got 10M batteries for my two overdrive backup reactors (and 150% overscaled whaterwheel power never running out^^)

just realised my reservoir has 20k cbm plus 5k in the running system and the two sources from the overdrive reactors.. water beavers can be a little insane

[snow scroll]

Im trying to catch mysel;f. I have such a hard time staying small for as long as I should. everything ramps up. and it takes a bit for every fix to be realized so the swing from not enough to too much is.... well my p[laystyle i guess

[radiant arch]

same

gave up on staying small and scale farms and pumps

once i have enough beavers to waste i start the other things

[snow scroll]

Ya but I get buried in pumps n farms

pit n ladder towers add B's quickly

[radiant arch]

you upgrade farms quickly?

like let large farmhouses take over harvesting and cooking things multiply yield?

[snow scroll]

usually the first 100 sci points spent

2 of 6 B's farming isnt enough

[radiant arch]

i think i have 4 large farmhouses and 4 or 5x double-small for my 800 beavers rn

[snow scroll]

well managed. Im way over. and its just not efficient, obviously

[radiant arch]

so i guess 40 to 50 beavers in farms

selecting the best cooking options is key though

likely 30 in secondary cooking stuff and GMO

[snow scroll]

do you charge to factory? I go for floodgate, but prolly cause I delay Badtide.... hmmm

[radiant arch]

rarely using a floodgate till very late, even with badtides

rather using dams i build and remove as needed

with a storage next to them, if needed special district, it's quick and cheap

rushing to large farmhouse (and pumpkin chips) and after alchemy-lines and after tree nursery

mostly getting the deluxe stew as soon as possible too

[snow scroll]

meh, pullin em is no problem, gettin em back in timely is tricky. and "in-elegant"

[radiant arch]

which commonly overlaps with time i get the mines (and insane amounts of sick beavers)

[radiant arch]

yeah, somehow 🙂

i find it hard to have a floodgate before 12th circle in normal difficulty tbh

and it's costly regarding population growth and all, with all the required tar and production lines

[snow scroll]

12 is the soonest. comfortably the 17th

I usually delay 14 cycles

[radiant arch]

similar approach here

or disabling them altogether as it's rather only a bother of that single floodgate and has no impact ever after

[snow scroll]

Hrmmm... never liked badtides....

[radiant arch]

oh, and badtides on my sea-bottom map would be weird.. imagine 500+ source strength and a 100k sea storage slowly emptying into the mid of your map? that would seem insane, wouldn't it?

likely would take 30 days just to pass by..

[snow scroll]

heh ya. ick! heh. well shit... now I wanna redo maps for more Lemon Canton style canyon spanning dams...

[radiant arch]

so eager to try that map soon

i love those deep valleys and real high dams

[snow scroll]

betta not mess with what I have. which means a new map which means I am never getting to build a a U6 tree nursery... 🙃

[radiant arch]

since you redo the map every time you find anything slightly off?

[snow scroll]

essentially yes

[radiant arch]

i know that trouble...

gone to use dev-mode to apply changes to map and to current game

saves some minor struggles. till i want to try a different approach haha

[snow scroll]

Wait.. you can save map from in game?

[radiant arch]

no

but you can edit the same things

[snow scroll]

ok ok

[radiant arch]

and edit it over in map editor after

[snow scroll]

ya the mods switching can be frustrating

[radiant arch]

and often problems are fixed with a few tiles removed / added or overhangs or sources changed a little. can do that on-the-fly too while playing

[snow scroll]

I do that too. but as a weekend engineer, I get into editor and start fixing things that arent broken as well and then need to restart

[radiant arch]

just keep notes and apply it to map after

wished there was a tool to find that single tank shower somewhere in this 150x150 tile settlement..

[snow scroll]

heh ya. so many times I will restart, lay paths and fences for brambles and see something I forgot and do it all again

[stiff flint]

Take notes?.... that sounds heretical

[snow scroll]

tool finder

needs a UI Icon @woeful sun

[radiant arch]

nah, tool finder only shows where things are produced in from the menu

found it 🙂

below the aqueducts, the super bath tower and inside a cave

[snow scroll]

howd you get in to remove it?

[radiant arch]

levels?

[snow scroll]

I thought the crash/update locked you out!?

[radiant arch]

as i build vertically too often (gravity is my friend) it's a much needed skill to scale levels haha

oh, i used the old version temporarily

bit of a pain, but since you said it can work for you, figured i might try

either had more than that one tank shower or it's something else... not working..

[snow scroll]

I didnt try load save w new one. lemme. i got no tank showers but I do Have small handicrafters...

and Irrigation towers

[woeful sun]

agreed, it's on the wishlist.

[radiant arch]

suspect from the message it might have something to do with how the stored resources changed

so handicrafter and likely irrigation tower should not be a problem as long as it's a new recipe option (i.e. can't have been selected before)

[snow scroll]

Handicrafter became 2x3 I think

[radiant arch]

oh nice.. can keep both versions at the same time, not having to unsubscribe or anything every time i switch over

[radiant arch]

i think that's in the pipeline. and knowing lapan he likely would add a dev-locked version for compatibility

[snow scroll]

One cloud one in folder? just un tick the version no wanna play?! me too as of last update

hmm. loaded in fine. hadicrafter is still 2x2 just news walls

[radiant arch]

you lost some things?

[snow scroll]

Irrigation towers have new recipe

Doesnt look like it but still fancifying a baloon trader ==>early mid game

[radiant arch]

balloon traders are awesome

[snow scroll]

Changes everything and why I just had to check out the mod before abandoning Timberborn hours and hours ago

Them and the washing machine... are what I call the "You can do that?!" speciality of Whitepaw Faction!

[radiant arch]

never ever used a washing machine

are they useful?

(tbh: barely ever using sick beds either)

[snow scroll]

last blueprint I make but.. come on! 🤣

[radiant arch]

maybe i can find a good spot for one later haha

[snow scroll]

keeping med beds full of resources is a mini game I dont love. heh

[radiant arch]

yeah

and you not need it really after getting to the deluxe stew

or maybe that was before lapan fixed injured beavers to actually stop working

hmm.. had three tank showers actually.. might need a 6th super bath tower now for that district..

or get rid of a few beavers.. hmm..

[snow scroll]

I dont think they stop working. I have lotsa injured but none "incapacitated"

[radiant arch]

yeah, that came up recently too and will get "fixed"

only no idea when

[snow scroll]

ouch. Im having trouble keeping brables flowing in quantity and havent started spicy soda

[radiant arch]

might make a huge difference in early mid game

[radiant arch]

that's my last one too, every single game

always glad to finally have the nursery and faster harvesting

try deluxe stew for the heavy industry / mining parts. that usually allows for a single bed and rarely fully used

early on it might help to have all injury-giving industries in a single district imho

[radiant arch]

it's the existing tank showers breaking thing. if you use the old version, destroy the tank showers and save again it will work without crashing after

[astral harbor]

Good to know. Thx for checking. So far reverted back to old version and playing on it. Will see if lapan can somehow fix it or we do need to remove and rebuild them 🙂

Thanks for letting me know

[radiant arch]

Lapan: tank showers break save games - might need a dev-locked compat version.

Otherwise lost the exact same overhang platforms the 4.3.0 update broke. so nothing major changed.

[snow scroll]

For your Save to work, going forward, remove them with 4.3.2 or earlier. save and update.

[radiant arch]

pro-tip for tank showers:

dig a 4x2 hole plus a single hole to the side, place a lido and water dump and a regular shower in the extra hole (or use 4x3 for max irrigation range)

replaces an irrigation tower easily

and serves as lido + shower

[snow scroll]

same holes with lido/dumps

[astral harbor]

You know that I didn't realize that that's their purpouse?

Lido + Dump is more water efficeint than irrigation tower?

[stiff flint]

the florist building option for bramble flowers is fairly efficient

[shell fiber]

I'll check, maybe I forgot something

[shell fiber]

Not yet

[astral harbor]

Where do we place blueprints now?

The scroll rack from library is removed?

[rare ferry]

I think it is somehow as well. I loaded the previous version, deleted the shower and resaved. Then the newest version loaded.

[shell fiber]

Yeah, at some point I had a typo in the barreled water item name. I fixed it but they was after I had tested the tank showers. I probably just forgot to fix the typo in that building

I'll push an update asap

[rare ferry]

No worries, just though maybe the beavers had just given up on taking showers. Theres another joke there but Im not going to make it.

[shell fiber]

update send !
actually it was the water display that was upset because it was still looking for "water"

[shell fiber]

hmm... yeah i think it's not that great of an idea to generate scrap metal as a by-product...

but you can always make nails and stuff and exchange that for pinapples

although i guess with zeppelins that quickly fills up too

[shell fiber]

oh, by the way regarding that, now that the stackability restrictions are removed, you can most likely put some (overhang) platforms and put the dam on top

[bitter storm]

Finally!

[nova crescent]

My suggestion would be that only. Let the steel sawblades be their own thing.

Or you can give a way to dismiss the excess like sawdust.

[shell fiber]

yeah that seems the most straightforward option

[shell fiber]

sometimes i feel bad because some other people definitely told me about this and i completely ignored them 😥

[radiant arch]

i see a living tree 🙂

[radiant arch]

i believe 5 units is 1cbm, so filling them up to .9 is around 40 units of water.
evaporation rate should be at most .2m per tile and day, so refill-need around 9 units per day

for a 2x4+1 hole. 4x3 would need 54 units prefill and almost 10 units per day (less evaporation, bigger surface). at .9m target height

2x4+1 runs dry within 4.5 days, 4x3 within 5.6 days - so the latter might be more drought friendly even.

downside: you can't use them as emergency storage or exploit the irrigation of the last drop as with towers.

[shell fiber]

ah, i just realised : since platforms are no longer an issue, probably that the artist and copist don't need their weird little overhangs

they can just be 2x2x2 houses

OR

they could become 3x2x1 🤔

but still for dealing with these random 3x2 holes i kind of want something more useful

what about a house mushroomer ? same as a regular mushroom grower, but houses a beaver family 🤔

[radiant arch]

hmm, you could plant domestic brambles "under" roads too. that's a nice bonus

that's an unexpectedly fancy bench

oh.. you can actually build it like that (the stuck beaver is mandatory)

[shell fiber]

This one is merely the template 😅

[radiant arch]

so loving it just the way it is

[stiff flint]

confirmed that works

[shell fiber]

Actually on my side I made a small change so that the floor of the primitive dams is watertight, so you can have the water flow above the roof and fall off one voxel away from the path, which should be useful for badtides

[stiff flint]

hidden waterfall tunnels.... i like this

[radiant arch]

you said the bot crossing are basically deprecated by now - would that mean, that you could allow bots in regular crossings too?

right now that's a little weird, how they can work far-distance-crossing but not regular crossings

thought it makes a huge difference just to have them take over the far-distant ones already!

essentially resolved all my troubles with transporting dirt and sawdust between districts

improved food deliveries too it seems

[shell fiber]

yeah, that's a pretty fair point

[snow scroll]

Love the weird overhangs! Please leave em. They also add Whitepaw character. I specifically seek out a place to use em. And canyon spanning dams always need walkways.

The Crossings ARE hauler based... and it would help spread em aropund with a "base" of operations in each district.

[radiant arch]

crossings not really are hauler based:
only the delivery from the crossing is done by haulers (or directly for very small districts)
and the fetching towards the crossing (other side actually) by the crossing-workers

not sure the game would allow a central "waiting area" / "base" without it being something like the IT loading stations (i.e. well-being for bots)

[snow scroll]

Ya, fetchwers and deliverers

The bots dont seem to work without one...

[radiant arch]

having only haulers (external workers) i would assume would really mess up things priority-wise (if it even was possible)

[radiant arch]

for IT, yes, seems configurable like thirst and hunger versus other needs

[snow scroll]

Sorry dropped shmigma into keyboard

[radiant arch]

wanted to ask for a picture of that cat. darn..

[snow scroll]

lol

[snow scroll]

Glad to see Billboards back! @shell fiber there are duplicate watertightness billboards. Billboards mod crashes a Folktail start. testing IT now.

IT crash also. "Village" key not present.

[shell fiber]

What 🤔

Okay I'll look into it

[shell fiber]

What do you mean by duplicate ? It is present twice or one of them didn't have the right image ?

[snow scroll]

present twice.

once as poop once as levee🙃

[shell fiber]

Oh I see

The second one was for the "is this mod too hard" billboard 😅
I forgot to complete it, probably got interrupted by something

[snow scroll]

Inorite... Life and all its complexities inturrupts Beaver Game time.

[snow scroll]

@shell fiber Oh, and when yer fiddlin about with the sizes and shapes of lodges kin you please add some "Beaver Storage"! @radiant heart and I believe it is prudent! Perhaps even a "It just takes time" billboard

[shrewd horizon]

@shell fiber I was inspired. Feel free to use it 😉

[shell fiber]

Nice ! 😁

[livid zephyr]

seem to be having an issue. first time trying out the white paws and im crashing on the first bad tide once water gets near my colony

[shell fiber]

Can you get the crash report ?

[livid zephyr]

first time i actually opened any of those up, seeing if i could make any sense of it. turns out i could not. lol. sent ya all the files. not sure what ya wanted

[stiff flint]

I may have done an abomination....

[livid zephyr]

Can mine a whole lot from that single strip of dirt I'm sure haha

[shell fiber]

i can't believe i'm wasting time due to this kind of stupidity :
the smoke of the chemical district is wrong, i make a new one, turns out is it not possible to change the smoke on existing buildings 😑

[radiant arch]

actually too bad it's not possible to build a lido in an aqueduct as you can neither build on the sides nor merge a log-bridge with them

[shell fiber]

okay, maybe this mess is a corrupted save issue 🤔

[shell fiber]

was there anything special that needed fixing that i may be forgetting ?

[stiff flint]

i'm trying to lay out the water system that will come out of the Abyssal Nuclear Reactor and it feels like i need some sort of target to aim for 8 levels above the ground.... i should be building the structures to carry the outflow water while i'm earning the 35k research.... but I can't place that structure because I can't be certain everything will line up until i can place the full reactor tower to see where i'm going

[shell fiber]

hmm... good point... a placeholder would be a good thing to have i guess 🤔

in the meantime i had forgot :

(the old ones are still there but devlocked)

[stiff flint]

it's already a 3 piece structure so i hesitate before suggesting an extra structure..... a scaffold structure placed on top of the abyss and the reactor core with the full science cost and degrees to go inside it? .... a wooden outer structure with a power core inside and then the water bit on top

[shell fiber]

yeah... plus if i let the placeholder be build on then you end up having to tear down the aqueducts it supports...

it's not the most practical solution but it's probably best to have the 35k science before starting to build the aqueducts

although you can always aim a couple levels lower and use a deadend segment to catch the water from above

oh, also i was kind of wondering if the nuclear reactor should not output polluted water, or maybe partially polluted water. i just don't really fancy the idea that there would be a near-infinite amount of clean water in the ground

especially since my initial plan for the wonder was to be some sort of fusion reactor that creates water out of thin air

[radiant arch]

i like the polluted water output - makes sense to me

overdrive reactor is slow to build, but that's all the water your beavers will ever need already

having the much cheaper nuclear reactor provide even more water would feel off to me

[stiff flint]

i like the polluted output option.... somewhere around 30-40% bad

[radiant arch]

it's lots of giant log pillars. but you can block the outflow on two sides using end-aqueducts and only have to build some outlet for the 3rd one.
(technically you can block it with regular - now stackable - platforms and a simple building too now)

[stiff flint]

clean enough it can irrigate and won't contaminate..... unless you start pumping good/bad from it to change the contamination level

[radiant arch]

a simple bad water pump or two might be enough to have it basically regular clean water?

[stiff flint]

i'm not sure on the number of pumps required but yes.... if you've got 50-50 water and you start pumping either type out it's going to shift the balance from polluted water to toxic death fluid

or from polluted to less polluted

[shell fiber]

i think the ability of water to irrigate goes down as pollution increases and reaches zero at 50% contamination, after which it starts to contaminate the ground

so 40% contaminated water would be almost unusable for irrigation, but would not pollute the soil, and i think wouldn't contaminate beavers

[radiant arch]

i really really like the idea - it fits the overall theme - but doubt it's more than decorative by that point in game.

like there's barely any need for the energy supplied by the overdrive reactor alone. there's everything build up. a huge population all happy. not sure it would make much "need".

[shell fiber]

if you pump badwater out of it i suppose that should clean it

[shell fiber]

yeah it's more or less a "okay you've won" landmark

[radiant arch]

now i want to have hundreds of beavers eagerly build a decorative fusion reactor for many many cycles and insane costs haha

[shell fiber]

well... if it is really not necessary... i can think of something else

oh, right, Folktails and ironteeth crash now

i should look into that

oh and the pharmacy building

[stiff flint]

on my current colony i actually need the water more than the power.... there isn't enough water on the map to support my Beaver 2k achievement plans.... I'm going to need to get water from at least 2 of the 3 abyss options to sustain my population goal

a polluted reactor output would also let you cap off all of the bad water sources and still have an option to collect bad water from the polluted output

[radiant arch]

whoever was it that suggested playing IT apocalypse on the lemon canyon map??

that's such a torture for my low low patience.. got a safe settlement of around 20.. just started the bot-buildings.. and it's taking forever.. for everything.. soooo slow.. (and like the challenge is over already..)

[snow scroll]

Could we somehow get the power earlier and the water later?

[snow scroll]

with billboards

is it on steam

[snow scroll]

heh We can blame JC's commenters who wanted to see "harder"

I added more mangrove and kohlrabi? whazzamatta? heh

Log stairs and crappy platforms can help an Apocalypse run.

and with the texture pack, you have lemons for a bit!

It feels weird, I havent beaverd this week. I remember now... Ima do a "companion part 1", map, I think, now Billboards available.

[radiant arch]

depends on the map. but usually can do with 10k energy without storage. with storage less than that. (using up to 10 factories /assemblies, 2 advanced sawmills and 2 foundries).

[radiant arch]

those help a lot for getting ready for first long drought (~40 days) plus some extra logs

[radiant arch]

just realised i can use grapes and pumpkins on regular IT game with lemon canyon and the plant reader mod.. hmm that's cool and even more easy now (grapes counter thirst too)

[snow scroll]

yupper. simple forester plants all the WBO Nursery plants

bamboo is best wood source if the hight dont drive ya crazy

[radiant arch]

bamboo would need lots of water sadly.. on apocalypse it's 100days of drought / badtide. so just enough for mangroves for all my 15 to 20 beavers

but yeah, insane how cheap and easy you can get those WBO plants here.. almost unfair

[snow scroll]

water dump on the low plateau

[radiant arch]

that's 1k water storage for a lido-sized dump

currently running smoothly on 5k storage

and using like 20 oaks - can't utilise much more / wont need more till bots are ready

[snow scroll]

bots already lol what cycle?

[radiant arch]

7th. buildings are ready, most materials are starting to store up

but would suspect a decent number of bots (to sustain making more bots) would take 2 or 3 more cycles

curious minimalistic challenge actually.. running a full game on 15 beavers and having to put so many into water pumps for normal part of cycle and building / research for drought / badtides.

sooo different from an actual WBO game

oh and 1 cycle = 116 days makes somewhat of a difference haha

[snow scroll]

ah haha I couldnt get off the ground. I needa flip my paradigm

[radiant arch]

oh.. i forgot you had to pay to allow bots to work in heavy industries.. too bad..

maybe this needs a few number crunchers too..

[shell fiber]

I'm skeptical about @storm gulch apocalypse run, is it still ongoing ? I only watched one and a half episode right now, but I'm not sure the maths as up in the end.

First the issue of beavers needing food and water midday is kind of an issue, but even with the maximum length of temperate season, can a beaver pump and store enough water to sustain himself for the longest possible drought ? If that's not possible then the whole run is not really feasible I'm afraid, unless he can dam up the whole valley by then

[woeful sun]

He posted a "taking a break from Apocalypse Mode" on youtube communtity tab 3 days ago

Ep3 is a fresh start, the inital settings did not work.

That's why it's "Episode 03*"

Disturbed Simulations mentioned that he tried the original settings too, and found it to be ~impossible

[heavy lodge]

YA, food consumption was insane high 😮

[woeful sun]

(is having a lot more fun with the revised settings)

[storm gulch]

I paused it for a week because I was no longer having fun and people had many valid complaints about mistakes I was making, but I'm planning to resume it next week

I do think the original settings are viable if you can get bots into pumps and figure out a way to give them a "lunch break" but as far as I know there is no way to do that without just manually adjusting the working hours to constantly extend and retract them and force beavers to "quit" their jobs to go eat/drink

In its current form with 120% consumption, we've already established that it's possible but very annoying early game

That is also a very hard map for that kind of challenge early on, even with the adjustments that were made to it

[distant wigeon]

From my experience, If you adjust work hours down so Beavers start going to go eat and relax, and the adjust them back up so it's "work time" again - yeah no, they ignore that and stay off-the-job. You sent them home, none of them have phones, you can't call them back into work like that.

[shell fiber]

One adjustment I could make for that is editing the Hunger and thirst needs (very easy) so that instead of doing +1/-3 they go +2/-2, that changes almost nothing balance wise but prevents beavers getting hungry / thirsty in the middle of their work day

[storm gulch]

Is this relating to Waterbeavers? Or are you talking about a separate mod idea

I guess my brain got lost

[livid zephyr]

Kinda seemed like modifying a save file to me, but might be completely wrong

[sullen cape]

It's basically giving the beavers a bigger stomach so they go longer without getting hungry, but they have to eat more initially to fill it. But the overall food usage stays the same
And likewise with water

[woeful sun]

or if there was a way to tweak food & water production down instead of increase hunger and thirst?

or maybe a mod to add a lunch break

[radiant arch]

working with 125% increased consumption and storing up 4k water using up to 6 pumps works nicely for me.
as i can rush to a water dump and have that lido-sized hole ready it is sufficient to feed 12 to 15 beavers.

can do water + food during regular cycle and water-dump, wood, industries and research outside.
blocked off badtides fully by end of 3rd cycle
did unlock first batch of 9 bots by the end of 7th cycle, added a number cruncher

what i wonder now is if i got the settings wrong:
using "normal mode" as base
set water + food to 125%
set drought and badtides to 50% each and 100 days (but left the setting same, so it will reduce them somewhat for first few cycles)

should it have been 100 day drought from the start too?

building a big reservoir wasn't all that helpful - it evaporates within a week or two.

so limiting beavers was easier

[heavy lodge]

will be mass extinction 🤣

[radiant arch]

it was...

had to time the IT breeding to go with 3 or 4 beavers barely making the first cycle haha

[woeful sun]

The first two episodes had like 200% food and water consumption I think

[heavy lodge]

for a 100 days drought or badtide and 500 beavers, I have stored 20 k + water , so ... 😬

[radiant arch]

500 beavers? insane!

i intend to finish this one with never going beyond 20 haha

[heavy lodge]

then you play in something smaller than Diorama ? 🤣

[radiant arch]

lemon canyon rn. but diorama would be fun too 🤔

still curious to do WBO in diorama at some point

[heavy lodge]

I want to edit this : https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/forsaken-bay to make-it compatible with Water Beavers....

[sullen cape]

Oh I like the shipwreck!

[snow scroll]

Thats a big map! What, to you, make up WBO paramaters, that would make it playable? Please share your edit! I wanna see what others expect from a WBO map.

[snow scroll]

Display.name.gear.house in map Editor. and ther watertightness billboard/duplicate

[radiant arch]

bots are so overpowered for IT / FT.. cycle 10, bots took over everything. the last surviving beavers only turn the power wheels now..
due to massive overproduction had to start building the wonder (to get rid of excess bot production!).

so glad there's WBO to have a deeper experience beyond 3rd cycle and actually something to think and do

[snow scroll]

I was trying to find something to take time off with... DF is too clunky for me to jump into. Fabledom is too cutsy and un polished. Thankful for WBO!

[halcyon trellis]

the resevoir is mostly for continued pumping and show. the real problem with surviving a long drought is having enough storage. since water doesnt evaporate in storage, if you can store enough to meet demand before a long drought/bad tide then you are fine. its just the jc does music math and it doesnt compute well. but its still entertaining

[rancid tulip]

How does one Harvest the banana's? I have the greenhouse, it's full of banana's, and they are fully grown, but nobody wants to pull them off the trees.

[livid zephyr]

Pretty sure it says in the little tool tip of some building, can't say off the top of my head though

[rancid tulip]

The TreeNurcery says something about planting trees in safety before moving them outdoors. ?

But that would imply knocking down the greenhouse once the bananas are grown... and that seams ... unlikely?

[radiant arch]

same as harvesting trees

you cut them down (need to mark it for cutting)

[snow scroll]

Thats to help people know that Bananas go in greenhouses

[rancid tulip]

ya, just not finding the text on how to get the bananas back out of the greenhouse after growing

[livid zephyr]

Gotta be like the gathers lodge or something

[radiant arch]

the tooltip (little !-symbol on the right) for bananas.
will show up from menu and banana plant i believe.
will tell about who harvests it - and it's just a tree harvested by cutting it down

greenhouse is walkable technically. (also exploitable - you not need to actually build it, just placing it is enough to grow bananas)

[rancid tulip]

I tried that... nobody wanted to go in to cut down the trees, I will try again.

[radiant arch]

did you mark it for cutting like any other tree?

have some woodcutters around for cutting? (if you click on their building it will show if they can reach the banana plants too)

tbh: harvesting it would make more sense to me. like grapes and minty bamboo shoots. cutting them down like trees is weird..

[rancid tulip]

It worked, this time. I am fairly sure I had done all that before. but... this time it worked.

ya, harvest makes more sense. . . . but . . . whatever realism has only so much value

.... well no. it kindof works.
. . . . My dude did harvest bananas. and then stopped

like ALL the trees are marked for harvesting. and all the banana's have been eaten. so there is space.

the lot isn't full, the trees are ripe. and the beaver just sits

only 1/5th of the trees are harvested. . .

the rest are ignored

[rancid tulip]

Cutting down all the trees, by using the uproot tool, then putting them back in worked. now they all harvest properly.

Looks like maybe going from 'unbuilt' to 'built' might be trapping trees in a 'unharvestable' state

[halcyon trellis]

Maybe Lapan can take a look or has some insight

[rancid tulip]

when and if it catches interest

[shell fiber]

Did you plant the bananas before the greenhouse was college cooked completed?

[rancid tulip]

yes. I think so, I set up the space and then went to do other stuff.

[shell fiber]

And the woodcutters would not touch them even though they were marked for cutting ? 🤔

Cutting, not planting

[rancid tulip]

ya. only the 'north' most 5 were cut despite all them being highlighted for chopping

[shell fiber]

Hmm

[rancid tulip]

when I set them all to be ripped out. and then when they were all gone, put them back in they work fine now

[shell fiber]

Nothing blocking the access to the greenhouse I suppose 🤔

[rancid tulip]

didn't change anything about access

[shell fiber]

Okay that's strange but I'll see if can replicate that

[rancid tulip]

just highlight them all to be uprooted. then wait, then put new plants in

[stiff flint]

i'm about to turn my Abyssal Reactor online (i'm not worried everything is going to be fine nothing will go wrong).... I'm more or less using the pillar and aqueducts for the first time setting up the water outflow..... If there's an opportunity to add a building use for placing a pillar and attaching rings earlier than "late end game" it would make planning the reactor outflow a much smoother learning curve.

Robotic farms are the only other building that requires pillars collars but I haven't found them compelling enough to build them often.

[stiff flint]

the good news is my Reactor is working perfectly.... the bad news is I may have made another beaver safety abomination....

[rare ferry]

Maybe I've just missed it, but is there storage for Barreled Water? I see the positives and negatives for it, just didnt know if there was one, or if you just get the two per handicrafter building.

[shell fiber]

It's stored in the glorious storage

[shell fiber]

Well, if you beavers are fine with it... 😅

I'm still playtesting on my side and districts are still kind of tough, I had made a science / industry district that had 90 population, I planned for lots of water pumping but had kind of forgot farming so everyone started to starve 😅

[shell fiber]

Oh right I should adjust the model of the giant pillars now, they all use the 5-tall model, it's just buried deeper for the 3 and 4 tall

[shell fiber]

oh, for those who havent noticed yet, the mushroom growers are now flippable

because that looks nicer like this

[radiant arch]

apocalypse done

[stiff flint]

no dynamite?.... but why?

[radiant arch]

too far away. too bothersome haha

no abyss mine either.. just too expensive

that map is really fun tbh

[snow scroll]

Always remember: Safety Third!

[bitter storm]

Do you watch that podcast?

[snow scroll]

Oh my, no... A guy I know who modifies his tools and almost cut off his arm always says this... Ima hafta check it out!

[snow scroll]

@rare ferry Please, if you think of it, let this channel know when you are about to stream your Whitepaw run!

shit i think i misse dit again

[snow scroll]

sounds like FT and IT are having this issue witht he bamboo... Not cutting it.

[rancid tulip]

ok, missing something obvious again, I have the tree nursery. that aught be good enough to plant the very big trees. . . . But I am not getting any reaction to trying to plant very big trees. nowhere is appropriate to plant them.

Ok, I found some places... but it's strange, I can't tell any difference between where it is allowed and where it is not allowed.

like... the not allowed places are at higher elevation?

[stiff flint]

Abyssal Reactor burns .1 Nuclear Fuel per hour and runs 24 hours a day.... 2.4 Fuel per day.
Centrifuge creates 1 Nuclear Fuel in 15h in fast mode.... 1 per day (assuming a 15 hour work day)

so 3 Centrifuges need to be running to supply each Abyssal Reactor?... and a Nuclear Waste Expedition for each Centrifuge?

[snow scroll]

they need a 3x3 spot each

[rancid tulip]

ya i had LOTS of space where I was hoping to plant them

[snow scroll]

possibly also true. depending on mods there is a limit. I believe vanilla is 16 highest hight to build on 22 map height limit... maybe. add quadruple terrain bounds mod from mod.io and you shouldnt have any issues! even in current save if you add it.

[rancid tulip]

that would explain it.

i have already built the low land area so .... But good to know

[rare ferry]

Will do, I usually go on Saturday evenings though.

[snow scroll]

Whatchin now! Thanks! you bounce off the mod changes amazingly well!

[shell fiber]

I... Really don't see what could be causing that 🤔

[snow scroll]

dunno, sorry didnt test. a relay from the mods workshop page... dont sweat it. I know you are ready be done with that mod.

[radiant arch]

IT had my bamboo cut well

[snow scroll]

@radiant archMay I post and tag your IT Apocalypse pic on the map page?

[radiant arch]

sure

you want one from later too?

well, maybe not from the time the bots enslaved the 15 remaining beavers and started exporting bots and flooding the world?

[snow scroll]

Heh can check em out for sure

The enslaved pics you should save for the graphic novel

the stories you tell yourself are entertaining🙃 Again, i feel comfortable noticing as I Tell some tales about my B's as well!

[radiant arch]

added an abyss district to speed things up

might have overdone it with the batteries (64 high) - especially since having bad water domed and infinite power from them..

[radiant arch]

looks like the gigargantuan warehouse isn't stackable - the ladders do not connect!!

tried it with my IT run, but it not works. ladder mod is enabled

also path do not connect when build on top of such warehouses

the lowest warehouse, directly on top of a ladder, did connect to the below path

rotating does not help. nor is anything buildable on top of the center tile of the warehouse. might be that part only that is "broken"

[shell fiber]

With the FT, EP and IT the ladders are not provided, you need to build them in addition to the storage

In the central pit of course

[radiant arch]

oh

but the ladder from ladder mod not seems to work?

will try again

[shell fiber]

They should 🤔

[radiant arch]

not sure i misplaced. will look again in a few minutes

looks like i had a path on the ladder by mistake

can place a platform, so should work (can't access the path easily right now

thank you. was unexpected for it to miss the ladder part

[astral harbor]

Just out of curiosity, did anyone done the math on hydrophonic? Can it entirely replace farming?

@shell fiber also is there any trick for hydrophonic so that haulers don't go in for like 1-3 cabage / rice and be a little more smart about picking up a little more full load? Or is it something that's hardcoded in the game?

And one last question which I didn't manage to test out. What is the required water depth for Bamboo?

[rancid tulip]

for bamboo both depth 1 and 2 work. three might as well not tested it

[distant wigeon]

I COULD HAVE PLANTED IT IN DEEPER WATER WHAT

[astral harbor]

I'm happy it works in 2 deep, as this means that I can move over Nenuphars to Hydophonic and reuse the same pond for growin bamboo 😄

But it seems that there must be more to the Hydroponic, theoretical math says that single Hydrophonic for Nenuphars should be equvalent of 133 squares of regular nenuphars. Is that correct?

[snow scroll]

Im not a Mathitist or anything, so just regurgitating knowledge of what was... Each hydroponic farm produces 2x what a farm produces in those same 5x5 tiles.

intended to be stacked to get the benefits.

maybe try electroshock therapy for the bots to get em haul more. I havent found the trick yet...

@radiant archworkshop doesnt want to accept your apocalypse screenshot... will keep trying🙃

[snow scroll]

even deeper! Thats why they so "incredibly tall"

[snow scroll]

threw me too, when I was flippin through the factions.

[radiant arch]

did take me forever to learn too. many bamboo died needlessly due to evaporation too.. they go incredibly deep.. not sure if even up to 7m.

[radiant arch]

never place a path on a ladder within such a warehouse.. it's almost impossible to select it again!
(and darn.. fitting stairs in a pile of 32 of them is difficult.. 65 ladders.. why is the cam so fickle.. at least now that's a real rooftop terrace )

[radiant arch]

would be nice to have a tool to calculate the total of any body of water ..

12m deep storage achieved on lemon canyon

[astral harbor]

Yeah that's always cool to do that 😄

[astral harbor]

Concerning tools I remember there was a mod that changed housing assignment to beavers based on their workplace. Has it been done in Steam Workshop?