Water Beaver Overhaul

[zenith marsh]

If it's possible

[shell fiber]

Uuh, honestly... I didn't really plan on making this possible. I took the opportunity of U6 to scrape off some of the old junk and normalise all the naming.

Some of the game system are too different too, for example most of your platforms and overhang would vanish, it's just better to start a new game unless you're 100h in or something 😥

Pretty sure the pit and ladder lodges would also all disappear

[zenith marsh]

I just built hot nuclear press 😢

[zenith marsh]

Then i'll play U5 only

[shell fiber]

Oh yeah of you're that deep in this one, you're better off finishing this map (whatever endpoint you decide) then move to u6

I will also rework the end game on U6, specifically the nuclear power plant etc, so you'll get something new to discover when you eventually update to U6

In the meantime I recommend you manually disable updates for timberborn, U6 is out but you're not safe from a last minute patch that would wreck your mod setup again

[woeful sun]

if you're staying on update 5 branch though, it should be fine to just stay on the update 5 branch

and install mods from mod.io not steam

I seriously doubt the devs would do a patch release for update 5 now that update 6 is released

[shell fiber]

Oh I meant if they patch update 6 there's a risk steam tries to revert him back to U6 while he had u5 selected

[woeful sun]

no, it's a different release branch,

https://steamdb.info/app/1062090/history/ shows that the old-0.5 was created (from what was public) before update 6 was pushed to public

[abstract harbor]

I need help, I can't find witch building is making Anvils

[woeful sun]

First anvil is in the broken cart (district center that you start the game with)

[abstract harbor]

😦

[woeful sun]

but be careful you have to build a new district center first

[abstract harbor]

ho ....

[woeful sun]

see: https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/water-beaver-overhaul#:~:text=*****-,Short Guide,-*****

[abstract harbor]

@shell fiber just pour te dire qu'il y a un petit soucis là

[shell fiber]

Oof, this has not been updated in quite a while 😅

[shell fiber]

Yeah the item comes from an other mod I made, that will be fixed eventually

[zenith marsh]

@shell fiber Is waterbeavers available for U6?

Or you need some time to make it happen?

[radiant heart]

it is but partially, some things are not back in yet

[zenith marsh]

So do I start and update the rest later?

[radiant heart]

think it should work, there are a few ppl on it already

[snow scroll]

U6 is an incomplete packagae. You would essentially be bug testing to speed up a complete U6 Water Beavers Overhaul. U5 WBO is a bit tricky to set up in conjunction w vanilla U6 at the same time, but it is complete.

[abstract vector]

There's something he's not mentioning he's playing a cracked version of the game so he can't update

[zenith marsh]

@abstract vector I m planning to finally buy the game

As it is on sale

[snow scroll]

Poor form! Booo!@zenith marsh Buy it. how many hours of play vs same cost as two movie tickets... Buy an extra one and gift it to a friend!

[zenith marsh]

I realise my mistake

[zenith marsh]

I installed bepinx and put mod manager and timberapi in the plugins folder but the game is not showing mod manager

See found 0 mods

[snow scroll]

U6 and U5 look for them in different placres. make sure you are now running< old update 5>

I gotta get to work. yer a clever beaver. read the instructions on mod pages on mod.io and you will work it out

[zenith marsh]

Yeah I m running old U5

V0.5.9.1

Guys it started running!! Thanks a lot! You guys are awesome

This game is crazy addicting

[zenith marsh]

Can't believe my game crashed at exactly 99th cycle 😲

[shell fiber]

Oh nice, I like how clean your town is 😊

[abstract vector]

I don't think the updated bridges are finishing paths right, unless I need to start a new save

[snow scroll]

Those lines are beyond me. that IS clean.

Its almost Dev comsole clean heh

[abstract vector]

Yeah I was testing why half my colony was no longer connected lol

[snow scroll]

heh, I was talking 'bout crazyrags town. Im jealous it is so neat, that I cry foul. ima poor sport sometimes.

People could do that In ONI too. and my factorio was spaghetti hell even when I learned the "bus"

[snow scroll]

Methane still seems a bottleneck. I prolly just need focus more lotus early then the clockwork with the new(?) nenuphars only option

[zenith marsh]

Yeah big fan of symmetry

This is essentially just JC beard's built but everything is placed neatly and together

[zenith marsh]

The population is 230 compared to 650 in JC's, same progress

[snow scroll]

I must be too impatient. I dont wait and duplicate buildings to accomplish the throughput I want

[zenith marsh]

I just wanna go home and send more pics of the game! 🥹

I just move things alot, i delete a already completed building 5 times to move it a single block side or rotate it 😂

[zenith marsh]

@snow scroll storage was the bottleneck for me... As soon as I built it and Stopped using it in the engines my problems got solved

[zenith marsh]

There is only 1 active advanced irrigation tower since badwater diversion was completed!

I put the advanced log saw at the place JC placed his factories and mechanised kitchen house

[old kite]

lol, and here i am with almost double JCs population and like 220+ bots

<.<;

i had to stop playing after i got nuclear power, and both endgame food buildings. I couldnt do 2 fps anymore

[zenith marsh]

👍🏻

[zenith marsh]

Also after the abyss thing was completed i didn't need my 3rd factory so I deleted it... The 2 factories beside the M.Drill is the only 2 on the map!

[shell fiber]

Aaah, I forgot that !
The path property is now a separate script, I forgot to add it back

[shell fiber]

I think it's good to raze stuff to rebuild cleaner

[shell fiber]

I'll probably make the engines consume less, at the moment it's not a realistic source of power

[shell fiber]

I think the end goal should also be to reduce your population

[zenith marsh]

Bro the way you thought the tech tree it is just amazing

You did all that imagination alone?

[old kite]

oddly genocidal of you

[snow scroll]

heh Break some eggs and all that

[old kite]

i thought about reducing but just couldnt be bothered lol. I spent 2 straight weeks on that playthrough. So many nights of 4-5 hours of sleep. I just kinda felt done with it. Also like i said, i just couldnt handle the performance anymore. I was out of projects to do around the house that took 45-60 minutes to do

[snow scroll]

@zenith marshwhat lemon canton version are you running? is that 1.8?

[zenith marsh]

I will check and tell you in the night

[zenith marsh]

My will not handle 500 population, I m getting 25 FPS on high graphics and 75% resolution

[sullen cape]

The new mods thing looks interesting, time to read

Oh it's more for modders than players

[radiant heart]

methane going to be a bottleneck untill you get to the abyss or really abuse the CW farms

[shell fiber]

new update !

[halcyon trellis]

WbU6?

[zenith marsh]

v1.0.8

beautiful map

[zenith marsh]

Tbh i didn't understand anything in this

[abstract vector]

@shell fiber I think regular stairs has the same issue bridges had, doesn't complete the path. Log stairs do work though

[abstract vector]

Also is regular platforms being ground only on purpose?

[radiant heart]

yes but you can put them on top of watertight buildings ( at laest in U5 you could)

[abstract vector]

Hm, they can't be placed on levees currently so I'm not sure if it's levees or platforms

[shell fiber]

Grumpf grumpf... Yep.

[shell fiber]

At the moment yes, I have to figure out what to do with that

[radiant heart]

never tried that but they work on the building/houses

[shell fiber]

Not anymore

[radiant heart]

😮

[abstract vector]

I haven't been able to get Small Bad Water Pumps working, bucketing posts work

[snow scroll]

Wait... What? I get it that the crappy platforms dont but architect platforms no can place on watertight? did you play test that change?

It also seems at odds with the desire for folks to utilize alternate ascent options than the ladder...

[shell fiber]

It's not something that I wanted, the Devs removed the "watertight stackable" thing entirely so I have no way to make the platforms discriminate between anything but ground or stackable

[snow scroll]

oh shetty. thanks for sharing the cause.

[shell fiber]

But I think the simplest thing will be to allow infinite stackability of platforms and that's it

[radiant heart]

that removes a big "charm" of the faction tho....

[shell fiber]

Which is not great regarding gravity batteries but otherwise but much of an issue

[radiant heart]

crappy will stay ground only ?

[shell fiber]

I can maybe come up with some shenanigans using the "flooring" voxel occupancy but I need to actually think it through

Crappy platform yes, no change

[snow scroll]

agreed. infinite stackable, boo. heh " anyone wanna play a weird folktails with houses instead of dams"

[radiant heart]

I beleive in you lapan, so much stuff you did was "impossible" at first glance, pretty sure you can find a trick to it 😝

[shell fiber]

Not working ?

[abstract vector]

Propeller not spinning

[shell fiber]

Oh

Probably a tiny fix

[abstract vector]

Bucketers off to the left is working

[snow scroll]

looking for enlightenment... heh full stop... heh minor burns.. no smelter, no wood burner even built, in new colony. gotta be primitive smelter... My question is, do the workers in these buildings have a chance for burn or did I just build it too close to a high traffic path and non workers are the ones burned? my current victim is unemployed..

[sullen cape]

Watching JC's Nuclear video, how deep underwater can I put the base of the nuclear plant?

[snow scroll]

I dont believe it can be submerged. I usually (both times I built em, heh) blew out the inside

, it was tricky.. highly recommend a save🤦

[zenith marsh]

You don't have original copy of windows?

[woeful sun]

I'm just double-checking so I am giving people the right information: If people want to "just play" whitepaws and not worry about stuff crashing or buildings being missing, is update 5 still the best option? i.e. is update 6 still in early testing mode?

[snow scroll]

correct

[fervent herald]

if you build the roof terrace the game crashes

[snow scroll]

Thats one of the very few vanilla assets leftover. the issue may be in the overhaul pieces you were placing it on. can you leave that info for LaPan

If you post a crash log, usually one of the brainers or coders can desipher them.

[woeful sun]

Noticed in a player log for v4.0.7: The given key Lapantouflemagic.ForeignFood.PluralDisplayName was not present in the dictionary.

[shell fiber]

it's the worker, but i think the primitive ironworks is also a source of injury/burns

also injured beavers cannot work

[shell fiber]

hmm... yes, people who just want to play without being bothered by anything are probably better off playing U5

for now

[shell fiber]

oh righ

[shell fiber]

oh, actually that turned out easier than i thought !

it doesn't show red, but it won't let you double stack

ah crap

yeeeeaaah.... i have to rework every single buidling so that they don't occupy the flooring area either, or it won't be possible to place on platforms

hmm... but do i want them to be placable on platforms ? 🤔

(i'm talking about general buildings)

also, this trick means that there will definitely be no impermeable flooring for this faction

not that i had any plans of adding that, it doesn't make any sense for this faction

[spring heath]

at least now you have a solid 'excuse' ;) (not that you need one bc it's your mod but may come in handy to keep the un-wbo-enlightened at bay)

[bitter storm]

So no overhangs?

Also, is the game written in Python?

[abstract vector]

Fuck Microsoft, I ain't giving them a penny

[bitter storm]

You needn't pay Microsoft to have Windows

[abstract vector]

It's the principle of owning a Windows key... Really I've just been lazy about putting Linux back on it, I had to have Windows for a class I was taking

[bitter storm]

Fair point

[shell fiber]

there will be overhangs just as usual, but to be honest i have zero idea what to do with the squewer platform, for now it can be extended forever 🤔

[bitter storm]

Huh, I see

[shell fiber]

mod updated

also update the 1x1x2 storage mod

[woeful sun]

c# as far as I know

[radiant heart]

think he is still 1 block higher that it can go

[bitter storm]

Ooh I see

[woeful sun]

I'm not 100% certain, because it's all compiled down to MSILCIL, but I think from devs comments it is c#

[bitter storm]

Oh

[woeful sun]

of course if it were written in IronPython or Boo, then it would look like Python and compile down to CIL, but I doubt that that's the case.

In comparison I wrote the parser for the timbertrees mod in Python, but it doesn't run as part of the game, so doesn't matter.

[bitter storm]

Hmmm...

[bitter storm]

Well yeah I guess since it is independent of the game, it just needs to perform the functionality I suppose

[woeful sun]

right

although I've though about re-doing it as an in-game mod too, beause it would significantly simplify the logic around loading and parsing the assets,

but then it would be an absolute pain to get the static html files for each language, and host them online,

and I don't want to maintain two separate versions of the same code,

[astral harbor]

I disagree, this faction loves water so having ability to build aqueducts would be really good 😄

[woeful sun]

@shell fiber: any chance you could make different recipe icons for the "Burn excess ..." recipies. At the moment they're all just ❌ , and it would be nice to be able to differentiate between them. Maybe just take the regular icon and put the ❌ on top of it?

[abstract vector]

I enjoyed the pipes mod that another creator uploaded recently

[snow scroll]

This thought then occurs. Can the WBO roofs be bottoms of Aquaducts without being flooded. I was thinking that the new overhangs are not watertight until the floor is added. will WBO still be able to make aquaducting?

[shell fiber]

That's possible, not sure how readable that will be though. But since I changed the way lotus flowers are obtained I'll likely remove the burn nénuphars and burn flowers recipes, that will leave only the burn sawdust one

[woeful sun]

eh, then it's not as important

[shell fiber]

Didn't think about aqueducts much yet, but as of now, watertight buildings are entirely watertight and can never flood. So they can be used as the bottom part of an aqueduct yeah

[woeful sun]

I think 🔥 would be a nicer icon than ❌ too

If there's only going to be one of them

[snow scroll]

Took me a bit But I think I'm picking up your train of thought...

WBO use pipe mod

as a dependancy for moving water around in liu of aquaduct.?!

The cost in beavers would practically prohibit building on platforms... impractical.. I am also with the preference of no buildings on platforms as a remaining WBO "feature".

[sullen cape]

Aren't they ment to live in their dams?

[shell fiber]

Not necessarily, I'm not against aqueducts of course, but I'm unsure what aqueducts are meant to achieve gameplay-wise.

In my head you have done water sources in point A, exit of the map for water in point B, and your village-dam in between.

Although I like the 3D water, where do aqueducts insert themselves in that ?

Sure it's still neat to have, but... What's the practical purpose ? You can carry bad water away but you could also cap the source, you can send clean water too a distant location but doing it in the air is not really more efficient than pumping it uphill digging a channel into the ground to where you want it to go. 🤔

I don't know, I feel like I'm missing some input or there's something that undermines the need for it, I just don't see why I did want that in my game

If someone had examples of why / where they would want an aqueduct, I'd like to hear it 🤔

[astral harbor]

Aqueducts are great alternative to not use dirt for moving water around. Especially on maps with high cliff sides it can be really fun to move water around this way. Many times using pumps in very impractical and water cannons are very "fixed" to specific location. If we could choose angle (target) and height then those would be a bit more usefull.
In current state (u5) many fun things regarding water and ponds is blocked by limited amount of dirt you can obtain and available water stacking options. Imagine you would want to cross the bad water stream with fresh water, currently impossible unless you flush bad water off the map to clear the path.

[sullen cape]

...you can stack waterwheels on top of one another, let me check how much HP I got
On Helix mountain you could let good water go down the spiral, while bad water gets ferried out over the top of the sprial

On my map I'm generating nearly 11k HP in a 15x7 area, built to vanilla's max height

With Folktails water wheels

[sullen cape]

And it looks cool haha

[shell fiber]

Hmm... 🤔 So for example her we could want to move water from one side of the valley to the other side...
That's a bit map-specific I think but that's valid.
But you won't be using platforms like this either way, not possible in this mod.

[sullen cape]

Yeah, do what fits with your mod Lapan 🙂

[shell fiber]

I think rather than giving levees, platforms, overhangs and impermeable floors, I'd rather have some huge aqueduct segment that includes everything 🤔

[sullen cape]

That would be tricky to use, but that's waterbeavers right 🙂

[shell fiber]

Probably would need to be at least 2-wide to fit water wheels

Maybe made entirely out of stone because that's what a real aqueduct should be made of 😉

But let's not get to ahead of ourselves

I still have plenty of stuff to fix

[sullen cape]

I'd encourage you to play with Sluices, I have a funny feeling they might be unbalanced for Waterbeavers, they seem powerful and I like them much more than I like Floodgates

[shell fiber]

To be honest I didn't play the game much since U6 was announced 😅

I poked at them a tiny bit too know how they work and they seem really convenient indeed 🤔 it's basically a dam piece except rather than just letting water flow or not based solely on water level, it is directional and can be set to maintain a certain water level on the output, is that correct ?

And also can block bad water selectively ?

[sullen cape]

I just started a test game, getting some screen shots on how I like to use them

[sullen cape]

Kinda easy, and automaticly

Be nice to your girlfriend, butt I would encourage you to play a vanilla game and try them out, maybe even in ||Dev|| mode (can I mention that here?)

Anyway

So here I have a basic colony with some aquatic plants. I have Sluices down the bottom of my dam, and dam pieces up the top for the overflow

The Sluice menu looks like this, you can set them to close when the water level is either
Too high
Too contaminated
Not contaminated enough (for badwater diversion or management)

[shell fiber]

Oh I see, so the slices will permanently refill the bottom area, correct ?

Hmm... 🤔

[sullen cape]

Yes that was my next screenshot. I had a flood before I got it right, but by setting the lower floodgates to be higher than the sluice setting, but still low enough to let enough water out you can have the upper dam keep the lower dam filled until the upper dam runs out

The flood lol

[shell fiber]

Ahah

So what about when a bad tide arrives ?

Do you just make an other channel and let the water fix away ? 🤔

[sullen cape]

My badtide solution looks like this:
Part 1, these sluices are always open but close above 5% contamination

[shell fiber]

Ah I see

[sullen cape]

Well I sent mine through Wheels first

[shell fiber]

The good old U-turn

I honestly think that the entire side of the map bad water comes from should be set as "no exit"

But that's an other debate

[sullen cape]

So I made my own badtide (love the overflowing 🤣 )
And the gates open and let out the badtide. I might spend 15 minutes building a solution that generates power 😈 brb

Now, I wouldn't mind Sluices in Waterbeavers, but I expect nothing less than a blueprint as a requirement, possibly ENS tier

[shell fiber]

Well since it is automated I could make it require a clockwork controller

But I could also do something more tricky, since it's not a water mover but a selectively watertight block, I can take use if the waterfall limit to nerf it.

Like it I force it to not be on the ground and channel only 1-wide water, it's effectively limited to 2,2cms of liquid

But I need to dig in this things guts to see how flexible it is

[heavy lodge]

YA, even more suffering 😱

[shell fiber]

To my utmost surprise, fixing the washing machine turned out to be not that hard

[sullen cape]

I can't upload a 74MiB video right 😂

Oh it let me?
Oh duh the server's boosted to 100MiB uploads

My badtide solution, only I'm using Good Water instead of Badwater, with a cap over the water sources to force the water upwards

Ahh I wanna embed it instead

Converted to mp4 with VLC

Take two

[shell fiber]

Oh, I see, interesting

But that won't be an issue in this mod I think 🤔

[sullen cape]

Yeah no I just wanted an excuse to post that I think 🙃 But yeah I like the new update a lot 🙂

[abstract harbor]

what is the best mao to learn playing waterbeavers ?

[shell fiber]

Ok U5 I think waterfalls was pretty nice,

[fervent herald]

Can anyone help me, I try and try but it doesn't work
Nothing works with Steam with restrictions and with Mod Manager, just a combination of Steam and Mod Manager.

[abstract vector]

So are you trying to play the U6 version of waterbeavers or U5? Because you should not have bepinEX still with U6 and if you're trying to play U5 none of the mods on the steam workshop will work

[fervent herald]

I tried both and no beta version either.
with old 0.5.
bepinex loaded and there in the plugin folder the mod mangaer but nothing was displayed.

[abstract vector]

To play U5 currently you have to downgrade your game version using steamcmd, if you are done with U5 you have to delete BepinEX folder from your game files in order to play U6 with mods

Be warned U6 is not completely updated, portions of the mod are not working

[fervent herald]

ok

[abstract vector]

Also don't expect saves to transfer between versions

[radiant heart]

hope it still has the merry go round sound

[radiant heart]

i expect it but know for a fact it won't work, don't wanna cry over it and give lapan more trouble then he already has to deal with

[woeful sun]

also you'll need to post the full log (attach Player.log to a message if possible), because there's useful stuff for debugging at the top as well.

[fervent herald]

sorry, I have a lot of things like that? in my head and unfortunately I have to admit I'm probably a bit too stupid to get it to work except via Steam but oh well

[shell fiber]

I think you are missing the texture pack

Ah least judging by what the game is complaining about

[woeful sun]

from the screenshot of the log above, I'd guess it's update 5

so there shouldn't be a texture pack

also possible (likely) that they're mismatching versions, which would cause all sorts of nasty crashes

[woeful sun]

If you post the player log, then we can help with suggestions. Otherwise it's a bit hard to know what to suggest how to help.

[radiant heart]

Hey lapan, special request if I may, can we have one of the housing in the description

"This looks like a perfect beaver storage"
-JC

[shell fiber]

i'm trying to get the irrigation towers back online at the moment 😉

[shell fiber]

oh, i just had a brilliant idea !

why can't beavers die of exhaustion ? if you don't give them enought sleep 🤣

yeah, that was not related to anything

in the meantime

[heavy lodge]

not sure, if don't have home, sleep on ground, but "sleep dead" , I don't know 🤔

[shell fiber]

ah yeah right, there's this behavior

eh, not important

[heavy lodge]

But, since a hauler or worker that bring something continue his journey until delivery is finished, may be possible for them 🤔

[shell fiber]

yep

but i think sleeping on the ground is only done when they have nothign to do during downtime, or when they are dead tired (need reached zero) so if you make your beavers work 24h a day, you may end up killing them

but i would have to let the need go further in the negative to not kill people's colonies too easily

[bitter storm]

Yeah, I think it would be a good idea to put like 1 or 2 days of buffer time between when sleep need goes zero and the beaver dying out of exhaustion

[sullen cape]

Yay for hard mode

Can getting to zero on one debuff increase another debuff? If exhaustion increases a death timer when it's maxed out. Guess that would need code :/

[bitter storm]

Does it cost 25 logs?

[shell fiber]

i don't think any need can do that, unfortunately

[shell fiber]

precisely 🙂

and 10 pine resin for waterproofing

[bitter storm]

Haha noice

[fervent herald]

Does anyone understand that?

[shell fiber]

hmm... you're using U5 it seems. your WBO version is odd, latest for U5 is 3.5.6

[fervent herald]

@shell fiber test it immediately

[shell fiber]

oh and you don't need the texture pack for U5, it's only for U6 (sorry it's a mess)

also, here are the dependencies of the latest WBO version for U5, it was about time i go dig it up:{ "Name": "WaterBeaverFaction", "Version": "3.5.6", "UniqueId": "Lapantouflemagic.WaterBeaverFaction", "MinimumApiVersion": "0.6.3.1", "MinimumGameVersion": "0.5.4.2", "EntryDll": "WaterBeaverTEST.dll", "Assets": [ { "Prefix": "Lapantouflemagic.WaterBeaverFaction", "Scenes": [ "All" ] } ], "Dependencies": [ { "UniqueId": "Hauling2RecipeFix", "MinimumVersion": "1.0.9.8" }, { "UniqueId": "igorz.timbercommons", "MinimumVersion": "1.6.0" }, { "UniqueId": "Lapantouflemagic.Billboards", "MinimumVersion": "3.0.7" }, { "UniqueId": "Lapantouflemagic.BalloonTrade", "MinimumVersion": "1.0.0" }, { "UniqueId": "Lapantouflemagic.storage1x1x2", "MinimumVersion": "2.2.0" }, { "UniqueId": "Lapantouflemagic.Logstairs", "MinimumVersion": "2.0.6" }, { "UniqueId": "tobbert.verticalpowershaft", "MinimumVersion": "1.3.1" }, { "UniqueId": "housingoptimize", "MinimumVersion": "1.0.5" }, { "UniqueId": "tobbert.ladder", "MinimumVersion": "1.3.1" }, { "UniqueId": "knattetobbert.staircase", "MinimumVersion": "1.5.7" } ] }

hope that helps

[fervent herald]

@shell fiber So far so good when starting the round there is a bug error
sorry for being annoying

[shell fiber]

What's the bug saying ?
Do you reach the main menu and the new faction appears?

Also no worries, mods are always a bit difficult to set up

[fervent herald]

@shell fiber The faction could be seen and the bug arose when it was activated.
I would have to send you the protocol, I don't understand all of that. I've never had anything to do with it.

[shell fiber]

well we need the error message to help you, if you at least can get a readable screenshot of the red text we can see what's wrong.

i'm going to bed now but probably other people will be able to help 🙂

[woeful sun]

Trading balloons should be version 1.0.3

[fervent herald]

@woeful sun That was the missing piece of the puzzle, it worked, I'm so happy, thank you and the others for the help. From now on the night will be beavered

[radiant heart]

this looks cozy!

[shell fiber]

Also I think there was at least one mod for which the dependency was not enforced : 4x terrain bounds (allows certain maps, and make planting sequoias easier)

I think there was an other one but I can't remember

[fervent herald]

@shell fiber The Tading balloon mod must be the latest so it works now

[woeful sun]

note that the versions there were posted above were minimum versions, (probably not minimum enough).

you should be able to safely update to "minor" versions,

like 1.0.0 to 1.0.3

[woeful sun]

at least with update 6 it's now possible to list optional dependencies that (if present) will be loaded before your mod

[woeful sun]

Are there other people publishing playthrough of Water Beavers? I only know of JC The Beard.

[woeful sun]

hahahah "no, no, yes, wait, nevermind, argh" -- JC The Beard

[bitter storm]

There is one channel called EldGames, and another channel called DisturbedZ

EldGames finished his playthrough around 5 months ago and DosturbedZ finished it 9 months ago

I haven't really watched them tho

[woeful sun]

DisturbedZ's is on update 4, and looks unedited (similar to JC's style?)

I can't tell which version EldGames is playing, but it was started before update 5 was stable,

looks slightly edited, but I suspect that the animated avatar would distract me too much to be able to watch

[bitter storm]

I see

[snow scroll]

I like letting them play while i water beaver. It seems the issues they are having are always timely and prudent.

I definitely caught myself watching the lip syncing of the avatar... It can distract. heh

[shell fiber]

his 3D avatar is not that jiggly, not much of a bother to me

[shell fiber]

new version up !
added more dependencies
added irrigation towers back (2/3)
restored some of the custom tool groups

have fun ! GN !

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber
It says mod setting is required but I have mod settings.

[woeful sun]

hmm, new version manifest -- neither python nor jq like it

They don't like the embedded newlines,

jq doesn't like the comment at the end (but python is fine with it so it doesn't matter).

[shell fiber]

Yeah I'd did that do me too yesterday but I had no time to investigate.
Still works though

[woeful sun]

Maybe "Mod Settings" vs "ModSettings" -- random guess, not actually at my computer right now.

[shell fiber]

Quick question for those who have started playing with the new irrigation towers, how is the balance regarding consumption of pollution resistance factor ?

[shell fiber]

Working on the mechanical drill... Ugh 😩

[fervent herald]

@shell fiber you can do it

[sullen cape]

Oh you didn't require that 😂 Well it makes sense haha

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Does Brambles ignore paths now?

[gleaming tree]

im pretty sure when u6 experimental was dropped, that same day lapan said he was going to do that. i dont know if lapan made fences actually stop them like mention at that same time period.

[nova crescent]

Fences are science locked. How do you control it early game? It spreads too quickly.

[radiant heart]

ho no he didn't, tought the basic science was science free

[gleaming tree]

^

[nova crescent]

Didn't get you.
Science is locked until you raze the broken cart.
Now then the fence is locked for 150 sciences.
So, what should I do until then to control Brambles?

[radiant heart]

ouch, tought the wood one was free of charge only the goold one had to be paid for

that will make some maps unplayable i think 🤔

[nova crescent]

Yeah. It does. Many maps. Where bramble is in starting location.
@shell fiber Please let me know what is the plan here.

[shell fiber]

not yet 😏

[nova crescent]

No it's doing it.

[shell fiber]

what ? they do ?

but yeah, i intended to have the wood fences science free

that will be solved soon

i just finished the mechanical drill animation... in blender

not need to rebuild the building in unity

[nova crescent]

Yes.

Ignoring paths. And also paths can be built on already grown brambles.

It becomes unplayable. Bramble will take over the whole map if you allow this. @shell fiber

[shell fiber]

don't worry i have the fences fixed right now

cost is down to 3 logs, no science lock

but if it is really too awful i'll let path block brambles again 😉

[nova crescent]

Great. I was going to ask is planks needed. 😋

[shell fiber]

no, i think i lost some data because i had to rebuild the fence entirely, the dynamic model system has been reworked, that was easier this way

[nova crescent]

I think that would be better. Because it's manageable for accessible areas on start. But if it's not accessible the other part of the map will be taken over by bramble. Path we can build anywhere.
Anyway, it's upto you.

[shell fiber]

praise my infinite kindnesss 🙂

(or lazyness)

and in left to right order : coal drill with the animation fix (actually working), iron drill without the fix (not active but animating) and last coal drill but not acctive, hence not animating

the trick is actually simple : make it workable by one bot

so it can be a workshop, and use the worshop animator

ah, crap, it doesn't work as i though

it doesn't animate if it doesn't have a worker

hmm

let's try this "blockable animation controller" see what it does

[shell fiber]

well... crap

my solution doesn't work

time for a weirder solution🤔

[tawdry bronze]

@shell fiber should the mod not have Timbercommon as dependency with latest update?

and steam is missing all dependencies
you can add items that you have subscribed to in the needed items list

[nova crescent]

Yeah, noticed that. It's crashing without it.

[radiant heart]

YAY !

[radiant heart]

if fences are free and only 1 log it would be better, since they replace birch and a ton of maps have those close as starter, you lose the wood plus need to spend some to control the brambles... just my tought, and as long as they don't grow over building foundations and prevent you from building 😅

[shell fiber]

😱

[shell fiber]

Oh so that's why I had someone tell me the dependencies were unclear

[shell fiber]

In principle your should be able to place foundation for the fence and that should already do the job, but maybe they should be cheaper, right now they are 3 logs each

[woeful sun]

So I made a thing: #1297339702353068033 which might help when searching for that elusive building in WB

[radiant heart]

can't place a foundation for the fence if you didn't unlock it with science...

[shell fiber]

I'll try to push an update this evening

[radiant heart]

don't stress about it, buildings foundation can be placed, it's just annoying a bit, as intended i guess 🫣

brambles been worst

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Will we need wooden gate to access this?
Lumber jacks can't reach it.

[shell fiber]

Yeah that's why I made the gates 😉

[tawdry bronze]

i also have the old gates from the game 😛

[shell fiber]

i have them too, reused the model 😉

okay, let's try my idea for the drills 🙂

[nova crescent]

Looks good.

@shell fiber Bug?
Floating fireball. Gives you haunted house vibe. 😋

[tawdry bronze]

probobly wrong location of the fire for the kiln? (set in its specification)

[shell fiber]

i couldn't be bothered to make fire specifications for each building so for the sake of building everything i used the broken kart fire to all of my buildings

i'll add that to my fix list

it was just not a priority

[nova crescent]

No issue. It's just cosmetic.

[shell fiber]

basically this is what i'm working on for the drill

since there is no solution for the animation

the tarp will only appear when it's out of drill bits

[bitter storm]

Noice

[shell fiber]

ah, nice ! it works !

i'll probably add similar things to other buildings that have similar issues

also :

was there anything else that needed urgent fixing ?

at the moment i don't understand the issue with the timbercommons dependency

[nova crescent]

My guess is it's for irrigation towers.

[shell fiber]

oh i know it's for the irrigation tower, but why does it says the dependency is not here when it is 🤔

anyway, uploading 4.0.9 🙂

aand i mamnaged to make an english mistake in changing the wood fence description. that will be for the next update.

[nova crescent]

Wrong dependency name maybe.

[shell fiber]

yeah but i double checked and it's correct

  "Name": "TimberCommons",
  "Version": "1.10.1",
  "Id": "Timberborn.IgorZ.TimberCommons",
  "MinimumGameVersion": "0.6.8.3",
  "Description": "Various tweaks and modules for making buildings.",
  "RequiredMods": [
    {
      "Id": "Harmony",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.3.3"
    },
    {
      "Id": "TimberApi",
      "MinimumVersion": "0.7.6.0"
    },
    {
      "Id": "eMka.ModSettings",
      "MinimumVersion": "0.6.8.0"
    }
  ]
}

    {
      "Id": "Lapantouflemagic.1x1x2Storage",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.3.5"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Lapantouflemagic.Logstairs",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.1.1"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Lapantouflemagic.TexturePack",
      "MinimumVersion": "1.0.0"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Harmony",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.3.3"
    },
    {
      "Id": "TimberApi",
      "MinimumVersion": "0.7.7.0"
    },
    {
      "Id": "KnatteAnka.MoreGroups",
      "MinimumVersion": "2.0.8"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Mod Settings",
      "MinimumVersion": "0.6.8.6"
    },
    {
      "Id": "Timberborn.IgorZ.TimberCommons",
      "MinimumVersion": "1.10.1"
    },```

[nova crescent]

{
"Id": "eMka.ModSettings",
"MinimumVersion": "0.6.8.0"
}

Yours is {
"Id": "Mod Settings",
"MinimumVersion": "0.6.8.6"
},

[shell fiber]

oooh, what an idiot. i was looking at timbercommons, not mod settings

okay, thanks !

that will be changed in the next update too 🙂

[shell fiber]

don't forget to update the texture pack for the tarp !

[nova crescent]

Can you please add dependency in steam workshop. So, if anyone subscribe to the main mod. All the dependency will be subscribed automatically.

[tawdry bronze]

Example for Lapantuflemagic how Forward of message look like 😉

just right clicked and selected Forward and this channel 😉

[radiant heart]

Halloween special 😂

[radiant heart]

😍 awesome

[woeful sun]

Logstairs currently "live" file needs to be updated on mod.io

it's 2.0.6, and should be 2.1.1?

Untranslated in enUS:

Lapantouflemagic.BalloonLandingPad.DisplayName
Irrigation.Whitepaws
Detox+Irrigation.Whitepaws
Lapantouflemagic.Ananasjuice.PluralDisplayName

[snow scroll]

too funny! I just caught up with the stream. Awesomesauce! (ep54 toward end, are there more?) Yes please LaPan! The triple watertight, I believe.

"You always need more beaver storage" - JC

[radiant heart]

55 went out today

[radiant heart]

and true, i misspoke on the quote

[snow scroll]

I was just adding the second part🙃 But it may make a better "flavor text"

[woeful sun]

https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/u6/enUS_Whitepaws.html updated to 4.0.9

I also discovered a bug that was causing log stairs and crappy platforms (and maybe power shafts?) to not show up properly.

[shell fiber]

Okay, let's try to not forget too much of all of that

I can probably do the steam dependencies from my cell phone

Nope, can't find the right button to do that 🤔

[woeful sun]

(I'd botched the earlier update to support mods on U6, specifically the original,replace -> optional change for the specs)

[abstract vector]

Paper mills don't currently require cauldrons?

[snow scroll]

primative?

[woeful sun]

Primitive Papermill you mean

[abstract vector]

The primative ones do, the paper factory doesn't

[snow scroll]

no change there

U5

[abstract vector]

Huh, guess I'm just high

[shell fiber]

It's deliberate, in order to make the proper paper mill more of an improvement it frees you one cauldron 😉
Also indirectly locks getting more cauldrons behind the first one because paper -> mechanic -> factory

To be honest I should have renamed the factory to workshop and the assembly line to factory but whatever

[woeful sun]

With Update 5, how does the Nuclear Steam Vent and it's water supply work?

green arrow means it should be producing water right?

[bitter storm]

Is it that the water should reach till the height of the steam vent? Also, does it produce water even in badwater? @shell fiber

[shell fiber]

To be honest I don't remember exactly. I think it was supposed to be only placable in a particular orientation that would have it's water sensing voxel in line with the water input of the reactor but clearly I messed it up 🤐

[bitter storm]

Damn

[woeful sun]

I guess it's possible that JC has built his vent in the "wrong orientation" then, weird.

[bitter storm]

oh no

[fervent herald]

@shell fiber A button to deactivate company housing would be cool. I constantly have too much of a population and yes, I do something cruel and send people to an empty district. I do not like it.

[sullen cape]

Does the Nuclear steam vent need GoodWater to function? Wait that is part goodwater, JC's Steam vent complains that it's out of water...

[thorny pelican]

You're asking to make this mod fundamentally easier? Clearly you didn't read the "even more suffering" part 🤣

[fervent herald]

@thorny pelican No, I didn't, so did I miss something interesting?

[thorny pelican]

Well, if you really haven't read the mod description yet, I suggest you do so. It's a bit outdated but it covers all the important things. And without the "workplace = housing" concept, it would actually be quite boring 😅

(If you were using sarcasm, I guess I fell for it )

[onyx night]

The newly unlocked wooden fences and gates do finally make brambles manageable (YAY) but I think the gates are now immovable/undeleteable.

[nova crescent]

Yeah you can't click on gates.

[tawdry bronze]

😮 missing Collission ,
you should be able to use the delete tool for now and drag and select it

[radiant heart]

even with the mass delete tool if you drag over it it doesn't delete?

[nova crescent]

It deletes. But you can't select normally.

[radiant heart]

there was a similar issue on U5 with the powershaft tunnels, took smooth like15secs to solve it

[shell fiber]

oh, oops !

fixed

[shell fiber]

as some people have pointed out with more or less sarcasm, the population growing almost uncontrollably is the very principle of this faction, so it's not going to change.

but if you constantly have cycles of population explosion then mass starvation, my advice would be to expand drastically your food production and water pumping, and build a lot of storage. generally make sure all of your farms and pumps are at max worker priority, and never use max priority for anything else, or exceptionnaly.

that will ensure your population is always more or less fed and watered, then the trick is to make sure you don't overbluild, or if you do, expand your farming again to compensate. a typical pitfall for new players is to abuse buildings like the tappershack or haverster cottage, yes they are more efficient, but early on you can get by with flags.

A late game colony often has around 700-800 beavers so it's never impossible to feed everyone 😉

hope you'll have fun !

[shell fiber]

okay, fixed the lockkeys, fixed the hitbox for the fence gate, fixed the dependencies on steam...

[old kite]

My 'trimmed down' lemon canyon still has just over 1k bio beavers lol

it was over 1.3k at one point

[bitter storm]

Dayum

[shell fiber]

oof, be careful, someone might call computer protection services on you 😅

unfortunately no update for today, because my GF wanted to catch up on some series 😉

[old kite]

2 FPS is normal, right?

its good for these modern PCs to know how good they normally have it. Back in their grandpas day....

[bitter storm]

Good for you 😉

[fervent herald]

@shell fiber The group is also really fun. Well, if that's the basic idea of ​​the group, then nothing else, I'll fully adapt to it and find a way.
the mod is just great. huge respect

I think this complexity is great and why so many things try, fail, learn and try again.

[thorny pelican]

Welcome to the forum then
And apologies if my response came in too sarcastic, didn't want to alienate you 🙃

[fervent herald]

@thorny pelican it's all ok

[radiant heart]

if you can still talk fps you can do more

[woeful sun]

If quoting FPS, do you have to say what the game speed is too? FPS when paused is much faster than at 1x, and faster than 3x 😛

[barren glade]

Hey gang! Great work on getting the mod ready for U6! I tried to load it up but I guess I am missing something from the dependencies? Hass anyone see this error before?

[woeful sun]

I think Timbercommons is a know incompatability

[astral harbor]

My Lemon Canyon has 1200 beavers and 250 bots 😄 Each time I want to trim it, it goes the other way.

But 2FPS isn't that normal, I'm getting approx 20 fps on x3

@shell fiber While toying around with Bots, maybe you could create high temp foundary version for bots? Or lock it behind some ridiculous amount of science (50k?)

Would be great to be able to automate those high risk jobs with bots in the late late late game

[shell fiber]

Was the ladder mod fixed for U6?

[shell fiber]

Hmm... Probably not, bots are only for hauling in this mod.

But late game the injury risk can be dealt with clinics, it shouldn't be too much of an issue

[astral harbor]

It's not to resolve the injury, but to have some sort of late game goal, give beavers a break so they can use all the wellbeing.

Also things like Mines and mentioned Foundry would be great to work 24/7. Since Bots are allowed to produce other Bots, I don't see a reason why not make it super expensive and allow them to work in factories.

[shell fiber]

Well then it becomes basic timberborn back again 🤔 personally I never really liked bots that much, for the longest time I didn't even want them in this faction, which is why I made those entirely mechanical buildings. I only added beavers back because it wasn't possible to lower work time since they still required haulers to feed the machines

So at best I could make sure sort of mechanised foundry that would run on its own as long as it's powered an fed ingredients.

But I'm pretty sure the foundry doesn't make any think that you need permanent production of, so in principle you could turn it off

[radiant heart]

frames per minutes on pause is where you might want to start a new colony 🫣

[radiant heart]

U5 orU6?

[astral harbor]

U5

[astral harbor]

It kinda has to go all the time if you want to do any jobs using dirt. That's the thing, that for a playthought where you don't terraform it's not a problem, but if you want to do any work around that you need the drills going and need a way of getting though the coal and iron, where best way is to do scrap metal and then metal blocks with big storage for it (but to be honest there is never enough of them).

[radiant heart]

geez, i need a gig like that

at 1,2 k + 400 bots barely had 2fps at 2x

[astral harbor]

I kinda dig the idea of mechinized versions of the end game buildings, that would be fun. It could even be as expensive as Nuclear. But would give another goal to reach.

[astral harbor]

it's nothing too crazy i9-13900k and RX 7900xtx

I was unhappy that I had to turn of x30 as it was 2 fps

I initially wanted to do 2000 + 500 bots, but that's not happening with the rates that I can get dirt. Takes too much time and not enough space in Lemon Canyon.

@shell fiber is the stacking limit on this largest storage (this massive one, don't remember name) intentional? I remember that last time I played it was like 5 or 6 max, while mega platforms allowed to build much higher than that.

[radiant heart]

laptop so... yeah, that would sure be a nice upgrade

[woeful sun]

Yea, Ladder was an early u6 adopter

[old kite]

cant you get dirt from the abyss? I swear thats how ive been getting mine

[shell fiber]

I don't know if 4x terrain bounds has been updated for U6, but maybe that's what you need 🤔

[shell fiber]

I think the most efficient way to do that is to exchange metal for ananas with the jungle beavers

[astral harbor]

Yeah, but it's easy to get to the point where I have full 3000 storage of ananas 😄

I mean I can always cheat the system using storage in mines

but that seems a little wastefull

but yeah eventually even this 500k can run out, so some more consisten method would be great

or buff the drilling for dirt in mines

that would help to resolve the core issue

I know the intention of limiting the dirt options in early game, but the deep mine drilling for dirt if buffed would be a nice viable alternative to the current process

[shell fiber]

I mean, it seems to me you're trying to reshape the entire map, which is not something I really advocate for.

Of course the primary reason why I made terraforming so impractical is to not undermine the "houses are dams" principle, but it's also to push people to play a bit more with what they have rather than leveling every map to the same blank slate

So in a way, if you need so much dirt that you have thousands of metal and thousands of ananas in storage despite also using the abyssal drill... You're probably doing something that is completely out of the scope of the mod 🫤

[tawdry bronze]

Ya timbercommon that this mod now uses do not support bepinex so rename the bepinex folder in the game dir to disable it and try again!

[astral harbor]

I mean, some of that should be expected with 1300 beaver colonies. If you have everything planned out well enough the resources are pretty much never ending.

Reshaping a map is not being done because I have to do it, but more like I don't have anything better to be doing. The thing is that having 4x dynamite available and not being able to reasonable fill a "mistake" hole in the very end game is a little pain. Another example is a pond I had for Lotus Flowers, now not needed anymore due to Hydrophonic. Filling that in with dirt so I can re-use it takes ages.

So yeah I do get and feel the playstyle, but after some point there should be tools available to let us get those massive colonies reshaped 😄

[novel portal]

From my understanding, every building acts as a dam. What would be a good map to try this faction? Ing ame map or downloadable

[snow scroll]

Waterfalls is a good place to get familiar with the WBO

[bitter storm]

And after getting familiar with the tools and functionalities, Lemon Canyon would be a good map to test your limits

[snow scroll]

I have been playing this one for a while. It is still a good challenge.

https://discordapp.com/channels/558398674389172225/1287320608337690637/1291231916392972328

[bitter storm]

Ooh noice

[snow scroll]

An edit of the mod makers lemon canyon for more playability options and a tad less tediousness

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Does bramble takes longer to pick? I believe it was a lot faster in U5.

[novel portal]

I assume not being able to flip farmhouses and water pumps is a limitation of the upgrade system?

[radiant heart]

yes

[tawdry bronze]

could you not have flip enabled for both?

[radiant heart]

the thing iirc lapan said it's the door voxels that mess it up if you flip

and the one that goes above forester/ittigation tower + triangle building is a whole other dumpster fire if trying to get that flipable

[shell fiber]

i guess i could, but if i may say ill of the uneducated masses, that seems to be a surefire reciepe to get people complaining they can't place upgrades while the issue is that they made a mish-mash of left and right variants :/

i'm also not convinced it really makes much of a functionality improvement, and it's a pain to make.

but in principle, if you make all parts flippable, that should work

exept for the end segments maybe

[zenith marsh]

is this bad?

do i need to rip it apart and start afresh?

[shell fiber]

the reactor should add one more height of watertightness so i think it's fine

[zenith marsh]

thanks a lot

[shell fiber]

how excaclty did you build this dam here though ?

[zenith marsh]

platforms

idk if it works it works 😂

2 rows on building and 1 row on platforms

[shell fiber]

i guess i though about making this change at some point, then forgot

eh, okay, why not

wtf ? i checked my data and it is completely wrong

it shouldn't be placeable on platforms, especially the central line

oh well

on watertight buildings it's fine

[zenith marsh]

maybe i have some old version?

[zenith marsh]

the edge line is on platform only

[shell fiber]

nah it's some error that slipped in somehow, maybe a stupid unity shortcut or somethign, i frequently find stuff i recently modified to have reverted to their previous state

[novel portal]

So for ijuries, you need medical beds? And for medical beds you need research, but research need lots of stuff to get going. What is the early method of treating injuries?

[shell fiber]

oh, right i had forgot about that

in u6 the balance was a bit off, but in U6 i had plans to lower the science cost of med beds

30 science instead of 80

but it's still a matter of choice

do you want to unlock industrial buildings first, or healthcare ? or better stairs etc

[novel portal]

I want to survive? Beavers can get injured before you can even unlock research. I assume it's the gnawing station. But I now have one of my 12 starting beavers taht got injured. I don't even have enough homes for everyone and haven't had a 1st harvest. There is no way for me to get research at this point. If my assumption is correct, I could have a large part of my colony being unable to work within the next few days. And no mean to handle that other than wait for them to die and be replaced.

[zenith marsh]

What should I do to decrease the height of the water by 1?

[shell fiber]

you don't need to be rushing planks that fast 🤔 take it easy, build more farms, build more pumps, a forester for good measure and your population will quicly increase.

but also beavers naturally heal slowly

your beaver will maybe be off-work for 1-3 days but he'll be back on its job

[novel portal]

I think I'll do the opposite and give up. Most city builders have a technological flow, where you end up with a technological tree. Whitepaws to me fill more like they have a technological bramble, with more thorns, twists and turns than anything. I cannot see the path I need to take to reach my goal. I'll probably return to it at some point, but my motivation is gone :p
good luck with the mod though, as I said it look very interesting, but to me it suffer very much from not following the KISS principle.

[shell fiber]

i don't know what the Kiss principle is, but not having a clear tech tree is not something i can do much about because the base game doesn't have one. there is a tech tree billboard though, in the village menu.

i also have an old tutorial on the mod.io page for the mod, it's a bit old but i think the basics didn't change much. https://youtu.be/J1uKbaH8_ew

[shell fiber]

ah i suppose KISS is for "keep it simple & stupid"

weeeell... that's really not what this mod is about, that is for sure. i made it specifically because i felt timberborn was too easy and lacked depth, so it's quite hard and there is a million things to manage at the same time, definitely not for everyone. if you don't like it, no worries 🙂

[zenith marsh]

Distillary is flooded 😢 even the levees

How do I decrease the water level my one in this part of the map?

[shell fiber]

yeah that distillery is definitely not tall enough

well dynamite a path for water to flow out ? with half a screen it's a bit hard to say :/

or maybe cut out a channel on the side of the nuclear plant to let water go around it, right now it seems you're forcing it to go above

it works !

altough now that i look at it... it's definitely excessive

a few smaller fires were better i guess...

[radiant heart]

is it complicated to link the fire size to the receipe? 🤔

i like when there are some little visual cues that you don't have to pop open the menu to know what's brewing

[old kite]

or perhaps even fire size to if its actively burning? Though i guess thats probably an extra layer of coding complexity. So like, small fire for making clay pots, big fire for nuking sawdust/other materials, no fire if set to nuke materials but has no materials?

Also just wanna say i follow the KISS mentality at work (engineering field) and i appreciate that water beavers isnt really like that...most of the time lol

[snow scroll]

@novel portal That is an option, yet I hafta say, Water Beavers are Messy. Relax, the beavers are tuff. i play LOTS of the overhaul. And am still often surprised at how wrong my assumptions were. Water Beavers, IMO, is about the challenge and trying something that "just might work", if only they would hurry. heh For reference, I have rushed science for medical beds. I spent my hard earned 160 science points and built the diease and illness beds right away cause the numbers were higher than Id like. 5 cycles later I realized I didnt prioritize the build... many cycles after that I found that the buildings are 300% more efficient when you prioritize them by haulers. All Im sayin is that its not that essential. It will bioost your wellbieng earlier the sooner you have em is all.

[snow scroll]

related/unrelated? If you rely on Mimicz mods to play WBO prolly aint for you. IMO

[novel portal]

Na, I'm good. I tried again because I really like the basic concept, but I couldn't. So far when I played, I felt like I could direct where the game was going while I was taking a few curve balls. Whitepaws were consistently spitting in my face "I don't care what you want to do, you're not going anywhere near that until the next 20 hours because you need 70 more different resources and a bunch of researches. I could not build a ducking dam piece by the second drought. Because you need metal for a dam. It felt way too slow and I am pretty sure I would die by the first badtide because I'm not sure I'd have the tools to handle any of it.
As I said, love the concept but hate the execution.

[old kite]

tbf its water beavers. You dont need a dam by the 2nd drought, especially since the mode is designed for normal difficulty. I treat water beavers as a completely different game mode and try to not get sucked into playing it like standard timberborn.

[radiant heart]

some stuff is made for the mod to ba playable on hard, need to know where you're going and what you're doing

[snow scroll]

@novel portal pro tip: custom settings. I hear yua loud and clear. I got more comfortable by simply delaying the first badtide. set it to forty cycles delay if ya want. It may be the 20th before you can floodgate anyway. It is a single player game. make it challenging not defeating.

And, It is not vanilla. It wont, It cant, play that way. This Is a different, harder, more complex, more resource branching and demanding game that also uses beaver labor. Sad to see ya go as it has literally given me thousands (sad, but true) of hours of escape.

[snow scroll]

LaPan if it matters going forward... in U5 it seems the assembly line wont let itself be placed on a base with any levees blocks

Maybe, like the advanced sawmill, I dont understand its footprint. It doesnt like being on top other buildings either. Itll self stack, with a 🤷‍♂️ .

[viscid field]

In the latest release, where are the other billboards? I can only find the tech tree and the news board. I'm looking into building the underground water storage, and it says to check out the billboard for more information.

[abstract vector]

Not done yet for U6 iirc, you need a 3x3x3deep space for the submerged tank though

[viscid field]

Then I assume that since both tanks have the door at the bottom, these are not accessible via the top in any way?

[abstract vector]

Even though the icon may be off there should be a version with the door at the top, might not be done yet, I haven't tested it myself

[viscid field]

Thanks. Last stupid question of the day.. How do I place the scroll rack INSIDE the Library? I have clicked on every square I can find in and on this building, and I can't for the life of me figure it out.

[snow scroll]

@viscid field its camera position dependent Gotta get real close. and or use layer tool. holds 11 racks total, 4 on bottom floor 7 on next floor none on roof. they go againt the walls. arrows point left when facinmg wall.

[viscid field]

Thanks! I will surely give this a try. I tried to use the layer tool to go down in layers, but 3 is the lowest it would go, which happened to have been the top of the library at the time.

[snow scroll]

I just scroll in so can only see in da library

[novel portal]

Are these the only floodgates you can make?

[snow scroll]

Correct. And , case in point, It is a different game.

[novel portal]

How can you handle badtides if you can't send the badwater a different way?

[snow scroll]

Beaver contamination jail. no food or water and they heal, Beaver Washing Machine is supa efficient but also a blueeprint.

and Bypass if can. But the saving grace for crops is the small irrigation tower

[novel portal]

So I can't prevent contamination at all? I have to let my population get sick then heal them?

[snow scroll]

the bridges are free to span rivers.

I often try to have a fluid dump (only accesible as lido) rice paddy, and throw a river bath in as well to get through badtides

Essentially you need one farmer (different than farmhouse as you get into upgrades,,,) for every 3 houses. a pump for every 5or six as so many recipes also use water.. Not always as timely as you want but you do always get answers when ya post em here! @novel portal Have fun, change some paradigms. I find it faster to exit to desktop rather than load from in game if you decide a save point is a better place than where you end up 🙃

[woeful sun]

re: Water Beavers and KISS principle -- err, did they not ready the flavour text? WB is an excercise in complexity, that's part of the design principle of the faction 🙂

ahh, the warning is not in the Steam Workshop version of the image,

and lacking in the actual text,

btw, the Mod Manager not deleting old files when upgrading bug should be fixed with v3.0.3

[shell fiber]

Uuh, it may be possible 🤔

[shell fiber]

Having the fire display only when the building is actively running is possible, but it's actually linked to a worker working inside, it doesn't play well with buildings that work on their own like these ones

[shell fiber]

Well I think the approach is correct when dealing with the general public, but with games sometimes complexity is the point 😅

[shell fiber]

unlike in the base game where you can divert badtides easily and defeat the entire mechanic in a handful of cycles, here for the first several (many) badtides, you will essentially have no choice but to let it flow through your town and live off your water storage for the time being. You can protect your crops with the pollution repelling recipe of the irrigation towers, but that also consumes water...

One of the things I attempt to fix in this mod is the game lacking choice. Again will you rush to get the floodgate dam or head into an other direction ? I never liked how most people start their playthrough by making bad water do a U-turn and forget about it forever. Sale for science : build a couple inventors and forget about them forever

Same for building the dams, just pile up a hundred dumb blocks of wood and here you go, no drawback, no thinking.

Here even if you want to rush the floodgate you'll still need a mechanic, a factory and a bunch of other stuff, which means your population will also increase and if you're not careful you can starve your colony, which means there is some risk in being careless, even quite late mate in the game this can still happen, while in vanilla the game never throws anything at you except ridiculous 30 days droughts on hard mode.
After cycle 10 or so I'm like "whelp, survival is guaranteed now, guess I've won" and get bored 😐

[snow scroll]

🤦 Think I get it now. the Assembly line is a 4x4 footprint despite the legs, and appearing as if it should stack on a 4x2

[radiant heart]

tbh the outtor color of the burner would be even better and someone said something about the flame beeing if it's running or not ( kinda like the tarp over the giga drill)

[radiant heart]

like, black for coal, green for nenuphars, pink for flowers and brown for dust

[shell fiber]

Ah sorry I didn't answer
Uh, I think the main part of the building must sit on watertight stuff, but the outer decoration things must be either on ground of above air.
I think it's simplified in the U6 version

[shell fiber]

Having some indicator of the recipes is definitely doable, but whether that can be the fire colour I'm not sure

[radiant heart]

not the fire, the walls of the burner for the receipe. On/off would just be the size of the fire

[sullen cape]

Waterbeavers is an exercise in Machoism, you're deliberately suffering playing the water beavers, you have a much greater chance of completely loosing the game, even on lower difficulties. It's meant to be a big challenge

[signal swan]

what about number cruncher? It is animated when powered, not when beaver are in. Or campfire, that are lit only after dusk?

[signal swan]

maybe you could reuse code for bots? When bots are working in building, lights are different color than normal (blue as far as I remember?)

[onyx night]

Is it a known thing that Water Cannon's cause the game to crash? Twice I've tried to place the 30 degree cannon and got unhandled exceptions.

v0.6.9.0-7b431f2-sw
KeyNotFoundException: The given key '' was not present in the dictionary.
System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[TKey,TValue].get_Item (TKey key) (at <20a025bba6874f73adca28fec451f638>:0)
Timberborn.ModelAttachmentSystem.ModelAttachmentService.GetSpecification (System.String id) (at <09471b6320434ec999f1e7198d4464d6>:0)
Timberborn.ModelAttachmentSystem.ModelAttachments.GetOrCreateAttachment (System.String id) (at <09471b6320434ec999f1e7198d4464d6>:0)
Timberborn.WaterBuildingsUI.WaterOutputParticle.InitializeEntity () (at <6d0f119bc0eb43f385fd1a9c8175f096>:0)
Timberborn.EntitySystem.EntityComponent.Initialize () (at <fa615ac334be4cb7ba337534feed5553>:0)
Timberborn.EntitySystem.EntityComponent.Start () (at <fa615ac334be4cb7ba337534feed5553>:0)

[shell fiber]

yes they are broken at the moment

i'll try to fix them soon.

in the meantime :

better in daytime

[woeful sun]

That looks horrific, well done

[shell fiber]

it's the same as before 🙂

[viscid field]

I have another stupid question, if I may... What tool/website/utility was used to make the this image? I'm not talking about the text, etc, I'm referring to the buildings, textures, etc... I think something like this would be a great R&D tool.
Link to image in question: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1070709592176197642/1266397725394468905/JCsDam.jpg?ex=671cf8ca&is=671ba74a&hm=4b075c4925663efbe991bc39ccb6ac93dbfd268e777b71845eea1be5d8df038d&

[shell fiber]

oh, it's really high-tech, it's done with unity screenshots and MSpaint 😅

[viscid field]

Damn.. I'm not smart enough to play around with Unity... LOL

I imagine you build it as a project or something?

[shell fiber]

yeah, the whole mod is just a big unity project, i arragned the models in the 3D space and took a few screenshots, it seems hard to do without the models

on a completely unrelated matter: i have a small issue with the water cannons : if you make it point at an underground target, it crashes the game 😬

which i can solve through annoying means at best

like having the flag occupy some space

which requires me to rewrite the entire building's bloc occupancy 😑

[viscid field]

Sounds easy enough for a genius like yourself?

[shell fiber]

also the particles are weirdly truncated 🤔

[snow scroll]

isnt it almost always underground as it fill upto a point, ya, could be an issue😅

Any chance Badwater ina cannon will be red?

[shell fiber]

it...depends on the depth available ? 🤯

[shell fiber]

hmm... i don't know how to do that 🤔

there used to be a script for that though

[snow scroll]

It would just be an added sparkle to the mod, unnecessary. especially not a priority

[fervent herald]

@shell fiber What exactly is the dike? You can only build it as a single part and not in a row and at that price?

[shell fiber]

dike ?

enough for today, GN !

(i have nothing but modding planned for the whole WE though 😉)

[old kite]

I assume they mean the levee?

[fervent herald]

yes

[snow scroll]

https://discordapp.com/channels/558398674389172225/1070709592176197642/1299207728765472859 maybe this sheds some light

[novel portal]

Lumberjack barn says it can support upgrade but I can't really get anything on top. As for the harvester cottage, I don't see an harvester upgrade. Is it only there to allow other upgrades on top?

[snow scroll]

It needs a companion building..

Either the irrigation tower(sm)/forester or another triangle building. They go on the left side of barn when facing it.

unlike the farmhouse the barn can, but doesnt have to be, offset.

[radiant heart]

the 2 triangle buildings have to be side by side, the shape of the barn will not let you have 2 side by side like you are trying to do due to the part on the right, a farmhouse or tapper would work

[old kite]

Not sure if this has been reported yet, but large water wheels are placing on single platforms as if its a double. Crappy platforms work fine.

hrm, had some issue placing a corner shaft as well, but got that to work. It was trying to place at 2 high until i got the camera/cursor just right

[shell fiber]

just finished fixing the water cannon, god that was annoying

i'll look into those water wheels

probably poke at the engine while i'm at it

oh, the problem was comming from the platforms actually

fixed

[shell fiber]

does anyone has a screenshot of the power shaft bridges from battery_smooth for this faction

i can't remember which color palette we had settled on.

oh i found it, discord keeps images for a surprisingly long time

[novel portal]

Apparently, you can'tr build a district center from the bottom.

This works though. Since the beaver enter from the floor below then onto the platform.

[shell fiber]

hmm... i'll have to recheck this, this is intended as doable

[novel portal]

I expect it's because they can't build from inside a building and there is no place to stand outside and in reach.

[shell fiber]

basically yes

[snow scroll]

Oh.. cant in U5 either. Pit n ladders no problem now. The pit liquid storage is only transversable (without pathing) from the original exit not all 4 ways, though, after the last fix

[novel portal]

How can you get Tar?

[onyx night]

Alchemist

The Artist Lodge seems busted, I can only place the building if the front terrace is above ground?

Although, I guess that would be considered “artistic”.

[novel portal]

Where is the alchemist? I can't find it in the menus

[shell fiber]

it's in village tab > village jobs

[shell fiber]

and yes, that's deliberate. artists are almost as bad as architects

the solar array and engine are apparently functionnal

i took the opportunity to increase the engine's power
300hp -> 1000 hp
8 methane/h -> 10 methane

but i'm concerned about the carry ability of beavers in that regard

so i might divide all productions and consumption by 2-4 to make it easier to carry around

because the weight cannot be less than 1

[bitter storm]

Did you change the particle apperance?

[shell fiber]

of the cannons ? no in principle it's the same as before

but not the same as the base game

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber Tree nursery can't be built right until ballons come?

[snow scroll]

Correct, and trebuchet and mechanical drill🙃

[shell fiber]

uuh, indeed

[snow scroll]

Or the drill and a buncha piles for the rock until you can trebuchet

[bitter storm]

Where did you take the particle effect from? Nothing comes to mind for that particle effect

Or did you edit the particle appearance of fire and the n use that code for water cannon?

[shell fiber]

yep, that's blue fire

the particle texture was not extracted correctly or there is some whacky unity shader shenanigans that i don't understand

but fire always work 100% no problem

so blue fire it is 🙂

also, fixed that

also, behold my new solution for giant plafroms !

[snow scroll]

Sweet!

[shell fiber]

and of course to go with that, the giant pillars are self-stackable

strictly speaking they can also support watertight buildings

which does not provides much benefit, but you can

[bitter storm]

Are the stumps (top end) of the pillars one tile higher than before?

[shell fiber]

there is 3, 4 and 5 tall giant pillars

the megaplaftform just snaps on them

[bitter storm]

Ooh

[shell fiber]

that will solve the problem of plaforms sometime being build before the thing that supports them

[shell fiber]

update incomming !

[gleaming tree]

lapan is on a roll today! great work mate

[shell fiber]

i spend the whole day modding and yet i have still so much more to do 😅

i'll try to get to those ballons soon

[snow scroll]

An Opus takes a while!

I appreciate waht you do for us!

[shell fiber]

so you cant' do that

but you can do that

.

which also means that i don't need to bother restoring the multipurpose outdoors workspace, because you can just build as many primitive ironworks / gnawing stations as you want

for example :

not gonna lie, i'm pretty happy about this thing

[novel portal]

Is there some sort of District crossing? I couldn't find it

[shell fiber]

uuh, i think i didn't fix it yet

so, no

but eventually there will be

(but who likes districts anyway ?)

[novel portal]

I do, because it's the only way to have somewhat large bases without beaver having to spend half the day running to their jobs

Like this. I want to build on top of the hill, but my town center is all the way to the right. I can also only have 1 district if I can't pass resources.

[shell fiber]

to be honest i think you're right, but i find it always so annoying to set up entirely autonomous districts...

i'll try to fix the district crossing tommorrow along with the balloons 🙂

shouldn't be very hard

[snow scroll]

You can hopscotch the one district center around. just dont attach to road till fully built and just after destroy the old one. As un elegant as it is, a "quarentine" district (attached to nothing) may save a run🤷‍♂️

[shell fiber]

okay, going to bed soon

[snow scroll]

Like building the one to replace the broken down cart.

[shell fiber]

GN !

[snow scroll]

GN!

[novel portal]

I really need to emake the entire thing soon. I need to unlock basic stuff like bigger storage, stairs and platforms so I can make better things.

[snow scroll]

M<ake sure you check the needed ingredients to build whatever you spend your science on... They may be locked behind, yet another, building....

[novel portal]

I know. I already checked. Like I really want stairs and platforms, but I can't yet make them.

[snow scroll]

I will probably let the berries take over my farmland as i move up. Until I get GMO. Im usually supa spread out and feeling the travel pains. watchin JC, he kept everything real tight... Ima try it but tricky to give up that 'perfect' spot for things heh

[nova crescent]

How do you make lotus grow flower? Farmer picks them up before they can grow the flower.
@shell fiber

[shell fiber]

I just had a potential good idea : the library will be a recreation thing and store blueprints and stuff, while for science I'll make something more like a "Beaver school" that will have the functionality of the current library

If someone feels like proposing a design while I sleep, feel free to 😊

(this is because the "attraction" part of the library currently didn't work)

GN again ! 😴

[nova crescent]

So, I think in U5 the harvest of lotus was plucked lotus.
That's why Handicraft's lodge has a recipe to separate out lotus flower and nenuphars.

Now in U6 the harvest of lotus is lotus flower and nenuphars.
Which has two separate time to grow. Now the problem is farmers are picking up nenuphars and
I can't get the lotus flower.

@shell fiber Please let me know how to tackle this.

[abstract vector]

Yeah the amount of items in waterbeavers makes district crossings pretty inefficient. I generally prefer increasing range of pathing and do one big clusterfuck of a district

[nova crescent]

Same here.

[snow scroll]

Not positive,im still on U5, but I think I read where there is some shennanigans required to let em grow long enough. mass farms or lower farmers or tim ely pause of building or something

[nova crescent]

. I think it was in U5. As lapan mentioned it.

[radiant heart]

it's awesome, just the 2 side by side that can't be at the same height gonna give my OCD nightmares

[radiant heart]

I think some sort of outdoor class with a blackboard and a few logs to sit would be nice

[snow scroll]

Maybe gathered around a sequoia stump

[radiant heart]

with a small footprint pawprint tho, it adds one more thing early game when space is at a premium, like 3x3 or 4x4

[snow scroll]

Minds eye had campfire size, I agree

[snow scroll]

Nice! I do, though, like the outdoor workspace for its alternate recipes and faster completion with fewer beaver. Say nothing of it being a really neat addition with a buncha 'skins', It also seems to force me to work out my methane and factory supply streams.

[shell fiber]

Hmm... Yeah I guess it's kind of neat but is it really worth the effort if fixing it ? 🤔
This thing really only existed to have those small buildings placed in a mega platform stack.

[shell fiber]

I was actually thinking bigger but I guess having something small is also helpful for small maps 🤔

[snow scroll]

What happened to "town center" Is that still a thing?

[bitter storm]

So will it not be restored at all or are you gonna do it later?

[shell fiber]

now that i'm a bit more competent with blender i can make balloons nicer 🙂

[bitter storm]

Ooh noice

[shell fiber]

i wouldl like to say "maybe later" but i'm honestly 90% sure that this later will never arrive

[bitter storm]

Haha lol issok (since neither is housing)

[bitter storm]

Wait does the "basket"/cargo of the balloon have image versions of the load it carries to that faction for the trade?

[shell fiber]

i'm not that much of a masochist 😅

although that is likely doable

[bitter storm]

Haha lol

Oh

[shell fiber]

letme think about it 🤔

it might actually be pretty simple

for example i could make somethign displayed on the landing pad probably easily

but on the balloon that is harder, because the animation is canned in blender and the thing that changes visuals is in unity

[bitter storm]

Oh ic

[bitter storm]

BTW what game mechanic from the OG game do balloons use?

[shell fiber]

oh, it's just a manufactory

you can make reciepes that convert A,B,C into X, Y, Z with little to no restriction

problem is that i can't really bind the animation to the thing actually running

i guess i could... but there would be weird inconsistant things

like the balloon pilot (if there was) suddently hopping out of the balloon to go to sleep or have lunch, then magically resuming his trip

[snow scroll]

is that the same kine thing you fixed with the "no bits" tarp?

[bitter storm]

Haha lol
Wasn't it the same for the abyssal exploration in u5?

[shell fiber]

basically same idea yeah, except adding a tarp to the ballons wouldn't work and the ballon would go straight through it 😅

[snow scroll]

Ahh, Magic Beaver! I remember this one...

[shell fiber]

ah, yeah well kind of, but for the abyss you can imagine beavers popping back mid exploration

taking a break and stuff

actually that makes me think i still haven't taken a good look at the ironteeth earth repopulator

[bitter storm]

Hmmm

[bitter storm]

So will there be some wonder in WBO? Any plans yet?

[shell fiber]

yes, but not untill i finish restoring the missing buildings

my idea (subject to change) is to make some sort of huge fusion reactor that initially deletes water, but once is complete and flooded (to force people to build a real dam) start making far more water that in deletes and is never affected by droughts or badtides.

an other idea would be to make a huge nuclear missile and nuke the last humans hiding on the moon 😆

[snow scroll]

Lol. you know, either or... heh

[bitter storm]

Noice

[snow scroll]

wireless (no powershaft required) kine Fusion? heh

[bitter storm]

How would the animation work? Would you add a cut scene for this one?

[shell fiber]

i don't know, probably the same as the folktails lantern thign 🤔

to be honest i didn't think further than this

[snow scroll]

factorio style, you launch, you win..

[bitter storm]

Hmmm

[shell fiber]

but part of me feels that the end point being launching a rocket to space is a bit overdone

the FT want to send seeds everywhere, the IT want to repopulate the earth, i think it makes more sense for the WP to want to rehydrate the land

[bitter storm]

Well right now it would what we call here in India "khayaali pulao" which literally translates to cooking an imaginary pulao (an Indian rice dish) and the closest proverb would be building palaces in the sky

[snow scroll]

Um, in case you are to close to it to see... Water Beaver Overhaul, is a little over done. In the best possible way. why stop now?

[bitter storm]

Indeed

[bitter storm]

Haha makes sense
So in this way the fusion reactor idea seems quite a nice implementation (at least in the idea pass)

[bitter storm]

This makes sense too, but I would prefer the fusion reactor idea

[snow scroll]

heh, As well! Yet in the 'spitballing' stage, i like to encourage Lapan 🙃 Who knows what the end will become. heh

[nova crescent]

@shell fiber what to do?

[shell fiber]

oh, right, sorry.

well the nenuphars are cut by the farmhouse, while the flower are harvested by the gatherers

so what you can do is plant your lotus somewhere, and then remove access from the farm (destroy the stairs / ladder that lead down) and give access on an other side to the gatherers

but i also wanted to make a flower-only variant specifically to make it easier

maybe i'll have time for that today

also, lotus will grow and expand on their own, so if you remove the planting order from lotus that are at the limit of the farmhouse range, they will likely manage to spawn seedlings out of the farm's range, at which point they can endlessly be harvested for flowers

not entire sure how practical that is to be honest

but plucked lotuses and having to split them is clearly a pain, so any solution that doesn't imply that seems good to me

[nova crescent]

This would be best. Only flower variant.

[nova crescent]

Will try this for now.

[bitter storm]

Nice

[snow scroll]

No longer an industrial "brick", maybe, Industrial swiss cheese... naw, ima work on it 🙃

heh, not even block a clockwerks anymore

[snow scroll]

Im getting a M. C. Escher feel from this. the stairs that connect but go nowhere

[shell fiber]

grumpf

the animation is whacked but for the time being the ballons seem to work

let's get the dristrict crossing timbermesh-ed

[shell fiber]

that was pretty easy

okay, so i think i did most of what was vital for today, next i'll either solve thtis lotus issue, or poke at the pantry mod

oh, it's not fixed yet, whelp, lotus it is i guess 😅

[novel portal]

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/housingoptimize
Well that would also solve the district issue. The biggest problem with district solves is that many beaver end up living far away from their jobs, taking hours to reach them. This would be a solution that doesn't require them. Sadly the mod is not up to date.

Also, I remember you saying that you didn't want floodgate because they were too easy, what about making them require power? That would put it behind some of the tech bramble but would allow for more manipulation of water. I'm going to be honest, with the update 6, I wanna build an apartment complex of beaver with an aqueduct sending a cascade a water down the middle. And not being able to manipulate water during badtide to prevent every single house to have it is troublesome.

[shell fiber]

Yeah Unis I've used to be a dependency for this mod, but right now it's kaput

[shell fiber]

The scripts controlling the floodgate behaviour don't have any input for power requirement so I can't do that. But I'm pretty sure you can arrange a channel to divert bad water away during bad tides.

Instead of raising a floodgate to block water flow, try lowering one to let if flow somewhere else at a lower elevation 😉

[shell fiber]

ah but there's a small issue with that : that means that some lotus flowers will be only harvestable by gatherer, while some will be cuttable by the farmhouse.
that will definitely cause some confusion 🤔

maybe if i make it a bush...

[shell fiber]

ah, right, that causes a crash when attempting to prioritize with the gatherer 🤔

[novel portal]

Why the double platform? Can't you build a platform on top of a platform?

[shell fiber]

yes, it's illegal 😉

[shell fiber]

for the school i was thinking somethign like that

[novel portal]

I have no idea how feasible this would be, but what about a modular structure? Make it 6 pieces that would require to all be connected and let the player make their own design?

[shell fiber]

hmm... that's not really possible

it's possible to make modular-ish buildings using the upgrade system, but it usually makes something quite clunky and complicated

[shell fiber]

but this thing is quite big indeed...

[novel portal]

some maps may not have easy access to such a large open space to place it early on. It's supposed to replace the research aspect of the library right? On certain maps this could simply not be possible. An argument could also be made that it's not really your problem :p

[shell fiber]

well there's some guy who made a 4x4 map with some sort of spiral staircase on the side, so yeah 😅

let's go with something like that

still looks nice, but smaller, and the roofs are stackable so it doesn't waste that much space

with the correct doors that's what it does

i'll put a tree and a couple benches in the courtyard or somethign

but the area should be partially buildable

[radiant heart]

that HUGE !!!!

at least for a early game building

walkable all over?

and 3x3 can support the tower buildings/district center?

[shell fiber]

yep, that's the idea

you can build your town center on top, or more pit-and ladder lodges

and whatever you like on the other surfaces

it will also be watertight and house 6-9 beavers 😈

[radiant heart]

9 is a bit overkill IMO

[shell fiber]

i was waiting for knatte's bot to generate an update notification, but it's still not comming so...
mod updated ! along with the texture pack

[shell fiber]

probably 6 is fine 🙂

[radiant heart]

compared to the librairy that housed none... it's already quite boost

[radiant heart]

did you tone down the cost of science a bit to compensate the extra pop?

[shell fiber]

oh i didn't push it yet

but i don't think +6 beavers justify lowering the cost of the game forever

[radiant heart]

🤔

agreed, gonna slow down the start quite a bit tho

[shell fiber]

I'll get to that an other day

now i think people can go as far as almost the ENS right ?

i still have to fix the CW farms and the abyss

but that will be for an other day.

GN !

[radiant heart]

GN

[abstract vector]

Can you make it a tree that is still harvested by the large farmhouse? So let it grow and let the harvesters farm the flowers or mark it for cutting and get the nephumars

[halcyon trellis]

Rotate when stacking?

[old kite]

Looks like theres a display issue with the IT style pile.

Also not sure if its been brought up, but sunflower oil and nitroglycerin dont visually 'show up', at least in small and medium tanks.

sorry if this stuff has been reported before, figured i'd mention stuff when i see it lol

[shell fiber]

I thought about that and I'll worried that people won't figure it out 🤔

[shell fiber]

Not sure what you mean 🤔

[radiant heart]

that should be there already

[halcyon trellis]

just meant, can you rotate the building and have the paths out face different directions

[radiant heart]

think he means the doors variant let's say you can stack them without caring about orientation of the door

[radiant heart]

having a "déjà vue"

[shell fiber]

Ah, well the building comes in one single piece so you can't rotate only the top part

[halcyon trellis]

is this building stackable? oh ok

i was missing something

[shell fiber]

And I didn't plan doors to nowhere on the back side 😅

But maybe a second entrance could be nice

Yeah definitely an entrance on the left side, this way you should be able to place a forester on top of the 2x2 area and it can access the outside without losing too many steps

(need to check the orientation)

[radiant heart]

always need a fire exit, if they use it in non emergency cases, it's up to them

[shell fiber]

Oh I just had a good idea for aqueducts 😊

[shell fiber]

Basically something using that system

Like an impermeable floor and two watertight walls attached to giant pillars

[radiant heart]

with giant pillars self stacking it sounds like a nice way to do some really dumb shits 🤣

[shell fiber]

Go ahead, at this point you're in such late game that it's fair enough 😉

[radiant heart]

just waiting for the point you say "LEt's go" transfer is done" and i'm going for diaorama, still unsure about hard or normal but... time will tell

[shell fiber]

You can try the new small map they made but it doesn't have any accessible brambles 😅

I guess that will make the new school worth it since it gives you two levels of elevation already 😅

[novel portal]

I think my colony is dead and with it my foray in Water beaver. In hindsight, I now know what I would need to do, but I don't wanna start over. To anyone starting the mod: Pump water. Lots and lots of it. You never have enough. Make a couple of irrigation tower away from anywhere badwater can touch, and you can ignore everything the game has to throw at you. As long as you pump and store enough water inbetween drought/badtides to keep the irrigated fields running, you're good.

[shell fiber]

yes, having tons of water storage is definitely a must

and no worries, take your time, you can always come back at it later 🙂

[fervent herald]

@shell fiber

[shell fiber]

there's no error message in there, except for the empty strings

And also : shit, i forgot that i can't make multi-leveled watertight buidlings 😥

[fervent herald]

that causes the error?

[shell fiber]

oh, no the watertight thing is completely unrelated to what you have

actually i don't see any issue with the log you show

if you had a crash, just toss the entire error log file in here

probably the crash message is much lower

my watertigthness issue means i could at best do something like this

which is far less pretty

or shrink everything to one level 😑

[shell fiber]

well for now this looks fine

might try the two-tall one

anyway, i finished work late and now it's almost 2am, should go to sleep

[snow scroll]

That is a huge footprint, that you cant place the needed mats in storage underneath as you can currently. I do like the clock tower and fency space! Yet late game we could essentiually have the whole colony on platforms?

[zenith marsh]

everything is so out of ordinary... i love it

[woeful sun]

I made a More Log Messages mod (only on mod io) that will annotate the localization warnings with the full filename. In case "enUS" isn't specific enough (it never is).

[zenith marsh]

fixing this was a bad idea

have been sitting infront of the screen for hours now... totally not worth it

[onyx night]

Got a new error. Not 100% sure what caused it. I was off looking at the progress on a levee and "boom". Beavers were building large storage piles for waste rock and dirt so maybe that's related.

[snow scroll]

Im gettin ready to dyno mite that same are4a to make it a lotus pond.

[snow scroll]

More optional exits on building could lead to more extensive dams too... its the pathing that seems to hinder eloquent damming... Being able to "kiss" another building to pathing could get creative.

[shell fiber]

Oh actually I got an idea to help with clearing this kind of jagged spaces, but I'm not sure it would really work

[old kite]

i have a lot of that area turned into bamboo farming. I was extra crazy and have the 'upper' area there largely cleaned out as well and grew sequoias up there

[shell fiber]

Also yeah platforms are mostly for mobility, to fix the terrain you need terrain blocks. But for most small buildings log levees can also do the trick

[snow scroll]

Heh, one of the major edits in lemon canyon showcase- was to remove the clutter. I didnt know how mto even approach the area.

[bitter storm]

Majority of the places where there are platforms seem to be 1 wide or 2 wide, I think levees would work there

[shell fiber]

okay, finished work not too late today

i'll leave the library as is for the time being (ie : same as before)

i'll fix the forester/irrigation tower upgrades and then probably start hacking at the 3 billion needs those beavers have

[bitter storm]

What do you do for a living?

[shell fiber]

i'm working as a company researcher (biology)

[bitter storm]

Oh damn, nice

In Japan/Korea by any chance? Your time zone seems to match that

[shell fiber]

yeah japan, i went there for my pdh, ended up staying there for almoste 10 years now 😅

not gonna lie it's a pretty good job

but the pay is kind of meh

[bitter storm]

I see

[shell fiber]

at least right now

[bitter storm]

Huh

[bitter storm]

Oh I see

[bitter storm]

Well as far as I know, unless it is some cutting edge/defense/critical tech, research pay of generally low
Well I am a college student, so I can't really comment on it too much

[shell fiber]

yeah, that's genereally like that, the hardest part i think is finding the first job after you graduate

after that it kind of chains on its own, i already got scouted for a next position with better salary

but i'ts not a done deal yet so 🤫

but research has the immense advantage of not being too routine-y

also there is some degree of freedom regarding time usage

[bitter storm]

All the best for you, hope you get it

[bitter storm]

I see

[bitter storm]

Hmmm yeah that makes sense cause you can't force someone to find/research some new thing

Also, are you French? Or do you have an interest in French? Asking because of ENS

[shell fiber]

yep, french

which is not that uncommon in japan i think

many people kind of flee france for japan, because the situation at home is... well shit

what i appreciate the most here is probably the safety and the sense of peace you get from it.

i never have to worry about get my stuff stolen, taking trains late in the enving and so on

updrades are all restored

except the builder and hauler upgrades for triangle buildings

[snow scroll]

Just curious... how many languages do you speak? English, French, Japanese?...As an ignorant American I only speak a wee bit Australian, some Canadian, a spot o' British, my poor Englrish and as a Pacific islander, small kine Pidgin...🙃

I'm Smrtr den i thought, thats 5 or six heh

[bitter storm]

Damn

[bitter storm]

Hmmm true

[bitter storm]

Safety reminded me of the apparent knifing incidents because of which stab-proof umbrellas were launched in Japan

[snow scroll]

why is there no theft? have they beaten addiction?

[bitter storm]

Noice

[bitter storm]

Haha lol it is rather common in non American/British countries

[bitter storm]

It is kinda cultural

The ethics are ingrained in childhood itself

[snow scroll]

hmmm. was for me too but I still stole that pack of gum...

[bitter storm]

I believe there is very less addiction in Japan, although hikikomori and extreme introverts seem to be more common in Japan than elsewhere but maybe this might just be what I think

[snow scroll]

and im pretty sure its not my wife in the bathroom😅

[bitter storm]

Huh?

[bitter storm]

Haha lol

[snow scroll]

forced joke. they seldom work

[bitter storm]

I see

[shell fiber]

Yeah French English Japanese, and some extremely limited German since junior high school that I've been consistently incapable of actually learning. 😅

[shell fiber]

Ah yeah I heard some stuff like that but I think it was many many years ago. But it's still extremely rare.

My pet theory is that yes it's engrained in education, but also in the manga/anime culture.

In most / all manga the main character(s) are what what in the west we would call a "goody two shoes" (which already has a bit of a boring connotation) : they never cheat, always do the right thing, try to bring others back on the right path etc.
And on the other hand what do we have ? Kid paddle who constantly try to cheat the arcade machine, Gaston lagaffe who's a general nuisance to his co workers and a major slacker, batman who thinks he's above the law etc. (there's plenty but I don't know which are mostly French or more international)

That doesn't really set a good example if you ask me.

But also in Europe, we have to face it, we're letting in our countries people who really have no respect for us an are only here for work, they don't try to integrate because they shit on our values, and because they don't have the codes to navigate our societies (not that they would want them anyway) they end up being second rate citizen, which makes then resent us even more etc. From that point why would they respect anything ?

Thankfully people across the political spectrum (at least in France) are starting to realise that there is some truth to those discourses and their only choice is to ignore it and lose, or accept it.

But enough of the political rant, it's not really the place, and I don't expect everyone to agree with my take on it

[sullen cape]

I wonder if there are any "Western style" stories about how "power corrupts" in Japan?

Back on topic, did we work out why JC's Nuclear power steam vent didn't have access to water?

[bitter storm]

Oh I see
But the launch of the umbrella was surely recent

[bitter storm]

I partially agree with it, but also, as far as I am aware, there is no proper European culture, so to say. It would be the same in America. A good immigrants' policy would solve half the problem. You would have to force the immigrants to either assimilate with your values, or to at least follow the law/moral code

[bitter storm]

No, my theory was that water was no high enough

[abstract vector]

Are 2x2 piles meant to not be able to be built on overhang platforms? 1x1 are able to be built on them

[gleaming tree]

are you still able to put a cruddy pile down, put the platforsm onthem and put yet another pile on the platforms in u6?

[sullen cape]

I might have to "cheat" a bit and try and work it out

[shell fiber]

There's no unified European culture, but we clearly have a common background. You never realise it until you go living abroad (and by that I mean halfway across the world). It's very difficult to explain but something you wouldn't even think about is sometimes a really big issue and vice versa.

Most people are nice but ask an Arab man what he would do if his son turned out to be gay and you'll see something very different. Most cultures in the world have this kind of considerations that most of us world consider inbred level of stupid, but from their perspective we are degenerates without moral values.

Westerners do well in northeast Asia and conversely because the social structure is fairly similar, but that is just not true in the whole world IMHO.

An example I could give is a friend I have from Sri Lanka, a really nice guy from a pretty good family, but he was horrified at the idea that he could be ask to pick up the poop of his own dog if it shat in a park, because that's a job for... you know... lower people

My point is that you take a good person for his own culture and transpose to a European lifestyle and suddenly the guy is an insufferable asshole 🤷

It could work but we need to be aware of the differences and explain clearly what is acceptable and what is not, but we can't do that if we operate on a "all cultures are equally beautiful"

Anyway, I like taking politics but again not the place