Water Beaver Overhaul

[shell fiber]

not there anymore in the latest, somehow you missed the latest update and then everything broke

[radiant heart]

last i was is 3.0.9

[valid salmon]

so, do you plan your updates in a manner that whitepaw stuff doesnt break? thats cool. so only main game updates can actually break the mod eh?

[shell fiber]

I try to not break too many things, typically when i change a building in a way that would mess up saves, i actually duplicate it and add the new one and hide the old one from the build menu. but the spadderdock / lotus change will mess people's saves a bit because lotus need 2-deep water while spadd only need 1. so people will need to rework their farming space.

grumpf grumpf

there's something broken i can't quite identify what

[tepid thistle]

We believe in your wizard skills

[shell fiber]

yeah i cleaned (deleted) up an old folder and some stuff lost their mesh

i'll finish that tomorrow, it's already late, time to sleep

zero chance to finish within a couple hours anyway

GN !

[woeful sun]

Semi-related: I noticed that many of the WBO Prefabs have unused GameObjects in them (some even with duplicate names). I'm not sure if they're Variants or overrides, or what, but I think they're unused and could probably be deleted.

(I was looking at files from 2.2.10)

If it would be useful I can try and save a detailed list of what GameObjects are in each Prefab so that it's easier to review.

Parsing WBO Prefabs was a good way to make my prefab parser more robust 🙂

[shell fiber]

hmm... well there certainly is, but there gotta be a good 100+ prefabs in this mod, not sure i have time to spend on hunting down empty gameobject in the 3D models, unless it causes real performance issues 🤔

also should that matter, i have an entire folder dedicated to deprecated buildings and placeholder fake thingies

not sure what your prefab parser is supposed to do.

[shell fiber]

okay, at long last everythign loaded fine except for the special water related things (the basic pumps are fine)

let's see if the custom pipes work, then i'll poke at the unconventionnal water pump issues (bucketing station etc)

[tall cobalt]

This is probably the deal w/ the duplicates?

[woeful sun]

It produces this: https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/enUS_Waterbeavers.html

[woeful sun]

Agreed. I assume prefabs are tiny compared to textures (and maybe meshes?). I'd guess it might only speed up starting a game - I'm not sure if Unity loads unused Game objects when starting, I'd assume it does.

also apparently there's an option in Unity that does it for you (not sure if it would work as expected though)

[tawdry bronze]

😮 cool data

[woeful sun]

There are also a bunch of Unity cleaner 3rd party scripts

[tall cobalt]

Also you need to update Logstairs and 2-Tall Small Storage to the newer format, but that should be easier since there's not like 50 buildings and none of them do anything really interesting

[woeful sun]

Thanks. I got frustrated with not having a quick way to search for which building a recipe was in.

(actually I got frustrated that JC didn't have a quick way to search)

So my aim is to make something that's quick and easy to use on mobile, so that it can be used as side-reference while recording a playthrough.

[shell fiber]

oh, that's pretty cool !
in case that matters, there is a bunch of buildings with the "production increaser" script that essentially adds one worker's worth of effort for calculating reciepe running time in the game (typically a 12h reciepe takes 12h with no one working, but only 6h with 1 worker, 4 with 2 workers etc)

[shell fiber]

well there's the wiki too 😅

oh, wait you mean you intend on making an in-game wiki ?

[woeful sun]

Yea, but the wiki is multiple pages and not as easily searchable

Not in-game, but something that's quick and easy to use on your phone

ugh, the font sizes look weird on my phone

That's weird. I'm not specifying any font-size for recipe ingredients. I wonder if Chrome is trying to be helpful, but it's not applying the help equally.

[woeful sun]

Do you have an example? I haven't compared any numbers yet. I've mostly been working on data extraction and making the output look readable.

[shell fiber]

the fermentation house, has up to two workers but can run the reciepes on its own
and the mushroom grower, one worker max

oh i just check, the timer displayed on the UI for reciepes actually disregards the production increaser script

one mushroom grower with worker and one without, the staffed one is clearly going twice faster but the game pretends both takes 80h

[woeful sun]

huh, but in a multi-worker building it clearly divides the time by the number of (allocated?) workers

Maybe it's considered an efficiency bonus

I wouldn't mind adding it to the output. I'm not sure how to show it though. Maybe as a building stat (like science/num-workers), but it would need a semi-meaningful icon (maybe just ➕ or something like that)

I think I should be adding a legend (and/or tooltips) at some point.

It was good enough before I added the natural resources at the top, and now I'm not sure it's as obvious.

[shell fiber]

nah, it's probably fine, just assume 1 or the maximum amount of workers and that should do

okay, mod seems fixed

[shell fiber]

uploading...

it's up !
tell me in case of crash, missing thing, bug, nuclear war or other mod-related catastrope 😉

[thorn dune]

it loads a new map ok, but I haven't got any further than that

[shell fiber]

I could load my pre-update save but didn't try to playtest

[thorn dune]

I don't see any issues on an old save so far but I don't have much tech

[tepid thistle]

Loaded and working quite well, thank you grand wizard of water beaver kind. As always, your updates arrive precisely when they mean to

[woeful sun]

I'm just using the CycleDurationInHours directly, not adjusting it in any way

[woeful sun]

ahh, I see it's only used by the Numbercruncher in the base game

[empty brook]

A Crookes radiometer could be used as a solar option for conversion to mechanical power for WB since they have access to glass

For a model suggestion for said solar

I think currently they use beaver magic

Then again I'm watching two different u4 WB playthroughs with RCE occasionally releasing an update for a third u4 playthrough

Feel free to disregard if you already changed it, or it got removed lol

[rare ferry]

Well, unfortunately Im still getting a crash. Looks related to the spadderdock\lotus change. I have a beaver out in the river planting on the stream save and clicking on those planted but not grown spadderdock crashes me everytime.

[shell fiber]

Okay I'll look into it 👍

[shell fiber]

Do you mean planted but not ripe spadderdock or clicking in the ghost that indicates a planting spot ?

[shell fiber]

ah, yes, found the issue👍

[stone halo]

@shell fiber did you use the custom tutorial system?

[shell fiber]

there is ? 0_o

[stone halo]

means no

Im disabling it for a bit

to be sure i wanted to ask

[shell fiber]

oh do you mean you completed your custom tutorial thingy ?

[stone halo]

Yea, back then

i did

has always worked

[shell fiber]

oh, but i though tobby tools was broken 😮

i think i had most of the steps and text ready

[stone halo]

oh it was

[shell fiber]

i'll try as soon as i'll put my hands back on it if you want

[stone halo]

nono, gonna make it better now

[shell fiber]

oh, okay

[stone halo]

That you can have multiple at the saame time

[shell fiber]

well the steps were from U4 so i'll need to rework it anyway

oh, nice !

[shell fiber]

uploading 3.2.2 that should fix this issue ! have fun !

[vast anchor]

Hmm, I just downloaded and unzipped waterbeaverfaction_3.2.2 into the mod folder and launched the game. The water beavers aren't on the new game faction screen. I did delete the previous version first.

The last version I had installed and working was WaterBeaverFaction_3.1.9

Did any of the dependencies need to be updated between the two?

Oh the answer is yes!

From the console window: [Warning:WaterBeaverFaction] Missing the following dependencies: Lapantouflemagic.Billboards, Lapantouflemagic.storage1x1x2, Lapantouflemagic.Logstairs, tobbert.verticalpowershaft, tobbert.ladder, knattetobbert.staircase

I'll get on that and let you all know how it goes.

The Whitepaws are there!

[vast anchor]

Well I hit an exception when trying to start a new map. I've been trying to read through the console window to see why but I'm not getting anywhere.

[thorn dune]

not sure flywheels is updated yet

[vast anchor]

Meaning, the game update broke lots of mods, one of which is flywheels. I should remove it for now?

[thorn dune]

yes

[vast anchor]

Thanks, I just tried it, crash again. I'd upload the new console output but kdiff3 (a tool for diffing text) shows the only differences as removing lines about stuff related to Flywheels and total count of mods and assets.

Would you happen to know if I should remove any others?

I'll going to try removing all unrequired mods.

[thorn dune]

the others look ok to me, though I don't have frog statue

[vast anchor]

I'll start there then

[thorn dune]

let me double check your versions aginst mine

[vast anchor]

Maybe I missed one when updating.

[thorn dune]

I have path extension, don't think it's required
I don't have Clutch or Power Shaft Extensions

I'm still on wb 3.2.1 but i doubt 3.2.2 is broken as it was such a small fix from lapan

[vast anchor]

Well I removed many mods just now; not great for knowing exactly why it was broken. But the idea was to only have the required mods installed. I got to the "What would you like to call your settlement?" pop up.

[thorn dune]

well it was one of them 😄

[vast anchor]

Thanks for the help.

Does anyone think it is worth cataloging the broken mods I had installed? Would it help get them fixed. I could add them one at a time...

[thorn dune]

the people who make them will know they're broken and just haven't got to it yet. I think it's likely clutch

you can tell if you to the page and check the last tupdate day

[vast anchor]

They were only the ones metioned on the page
https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/water-beaver-overhaul

Okay, Thanks again. I didn't want to do it if it wasn't going to help someone 🙂

[storm prawn]

@vast anchor
battery_smooth's mods are not updated yet (Flywheels, Clutch, PowerShaftExtention)
FrogStatue you need to update (v1.1.6 is fixed)

[vast anchor]

@tall cobalt I've been following your lead on waiting till things settle down to update the wiki. Any idea when that would happen?

[rare ferry]

Yep, everything is good now. Thanks!

[vast anchor]

I'm curious why the building's completing cause ~30 second freezing. (I'm a C# developer for work.) I imagine the script is adjusting some value for every entity in the game, or it at least has to check if it wants to edit... I haven't done any moding for unity games or timberborn.
I wonder if there is a way to shift the work to a background thread.
There is probably a timberborn moding getting started someone could point me to.

The mods are amazing by the way.

[heavy lodge]

But, WBO is codeless. So, is unlikely to be author fault.

[thorn dune]

it has gigantic aoe effects on some buildings and warns they freeze the game for a bit when built. but I've never seen it

I guess the script is designed for very small radius effects

[vast anchor]

My Four-way district just did it.

idk if it was 30 seconds but it did hang a bit.

[radiant heart]

got all the battery smooth mods on my curent run so can't really test it out 😦 back to blowing up some aliens!

[thorn dune]

I'm struggling with a water source I want to split into two separate directions. in base game I'd put dams right next to the source and build a levee to separate the output, but in WB that's like a 6x6 block of dams
any thoughts on a good way to do it?

I guess I could use the pump dam to pump a bit of water out in one direction and let it flow in the other

[radiant heart]

dynamite + terraforming if you got the dirt for it

[thorn dune]

how does that help?

I want it to split evenly in two directions

[radiant heart]

you make walls or dig trenches to set the flow direction

[empty brook]

Because houses are water tight you can even channel water through them to make some power

Just gotta be mindful of the doors

[radiant heart]

not that much, once you got a washing machine in the contamination is a non-issue

[shell fiber]

yes, the freeze is due to the gigantic aura the buildings have. they use to have a hidden beehive-type aura that give a bit of hunger with 99.99% probability to every beaver in a set radius every day, but that caused the game to roll a dice for every beaver in range every so often (multiple buildings had this) which caused lag spikes.

this version doesn't cause lag spikes but require the game to update something when the building is finished, after which i don't see any particular slowdown.

if someone can code me something that fills effecively the same role but with far less CPU usage that would be neat, but right now i shrunk that system to increasing food a water a little bit. with the current 75 aura it doesn't cause more lag than the regular autosave so it's barely noticable, but i have a pretty good PC. the district center needs a bigger aura so it lags a bit more, but you won't build a hundred of those hopefully.

if it is still very troublesome, don't hesitate to tell me, i might scrap it entirely

[shell fiber]

oh right, i was meaning to ask you first but got busy : i needed a picture to illustrate how to place the beaver washing machine for the billboard mod, but i couldn't take a screenshot myself without fixing it first, so i took a screenshot from one of your playthroughs instead. no problem ?

[rare ferry]

Sure no problem

[shell fiber]

well if there is no major bug all seems good ! GN !

[vast anchor]

Thanks for the explanation. It isn't causing me trouble, just a spark of curiosity.

[red mulch]

I wanted to post here and thank you for the wonderful mod

It’s my perfect kind of complicated “step 1 draw a circle” to “step 2 draw the rest of the owl” kind of thing

For example, I had to figure out how to somewhat close off an area of flow to retain water during drought and so I just. Stacked houses to divert the flow in a way that allowed retention

Oh and badtide is funny because I build a temporary structure to close off an entire portion so nothing gets in

I’m doing this all on helix mountain and haven’t unlocked a single tech on cycle like 11 because I’m still learning the hard way for lolz

[tall cobalt]

Honestly, you can take anything in Dams, Houses, and Damhouses

or Storage, or Paths/Structures

I don't think those are going to change

Apparently plucked brambles went back to being bramble flowers this time around so I don't know what's with that atm

I'm also not touching food quite yet

Power looks basically untouched, I'm not 100% on whether the badwater pumps in Science are finished yet

Well-Being looks okay at the moment, the jail and washing machine at least definitely needs documenting

[woeful sun]

https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/enUS_Waterbeavers.html is only v2.2.10 at the moment, but if you want I could share the script with you and you could try it on v3

[shell fiber]

something tells me someone lost all of his berries 😅

[shell fiber]

basically i felt it would imbalance things to remove brambles as a log-yielding plant so instead i had made the "bramble plywood" (planks) but after playing a while i figured it was probably more confusing than anything and not really useful, so i ditched it and just had it give bramble flowers

[shell fiber]

i changed the science cost recently, but not touching that stuff anytime soon again

[tall cobalt]

Also what is with the health stuff anyway

[shell fiber]

uuh, the injuries and so on stuff is... let's say on hiatus

i have decreased injuries and diseases a lot so it does't cause trouble to people, but i need to take a decision more than fix anything.

at the moment if i remember correctly, the medication is consumed properly, so it should work

but the balance of when it really starts occuring, the frequency at which it does, the cost of medication and the weight of non-working beavers is something i need to think about properly

also i want to make treatment be in some sort of hospital again, not just consumable drugs just laying around in a warehouse

[red mulch]

I did lose my berries hahaha

And I’ve had many, many deaths

I might start over with what I’ve learned

[shell fiber]

in case that helps, watertight buildings prevent sideways spreading of contamination (just like levees) so one way to irrigate now that irrigation towers are dead is simply to build your houses next to the riverbank to isolate it from the river, and leave just a gap to place a lido irrigation to keep it actually irrigated)

at least that was my solution on helix

on that note thought, i just finished a custom map for this faction, but i don't know if i'm a good mapmaker or not 😅

[thorn dune]

watertight buildings are supposed to stop contamination? what have I done wrong here?
(3.2.1)

[shell fiber]

well that's the trick, they stop it sideways, but not under them

so a small amount will manage to seep under it

it's a bit complicated to explain

[thorn dune]

then I won't try and use it 😅

[shell fiber]

lemon canyon

just need to find where maps are actually saved 😑

[heavy lodge]

Documents\Timberborn\Maps\

[shell fiber]

ahah

indeed

i figured the game would have a "open folder" button

[thorn dune]

looks great. I already want to build another giant pit_ladder tower right where you want me to 😄

[shell fiber]

okay, uploaded, gotta go

if anyone feels like giving it a try, tell me if there is some clearly clunky stuff or bugs or who knows

you can try with or without the #1094279087553523722 mod, both should work

i'll think i'll make an insane baobab-based map someday

anyway, gotta go !

have fun !

[red mulch]

OOOOO

I want this

Let me download the map rq and test it for ya!

[heavy lodge]

You can download with Mod Manager, is on ModIO !

[red mulch]

the map looked neat in preview so here's hoping I've Learned from the Doom Spiral settlement

(and yes I name every single Whitepaws settlement after negative things)

(Thousand Islands is "Suffering Circle")

it's my personal headcanon that my offshoot of the Whitepaws name things after adversity because something something hope for the best, prepare for the worst

or the city mayor is an edgelord, who knows

anyways, in Lemon Canyon I already see a few things that drive me nuts with customs but nothing I can't landscape to my preferences!

[thorn dune]

not sure what's wrong but I get this when loading the map after installing it from mod manager. I can still load my current game so I guess it's the map somehow
same error with or without More Plants

[vast anchor]

I'm having trouble getting my haulers to prioritize kimchi.

Maybe I need more haulers for the number of barrels I have?

[thorn dune]

yeah I've had problems now there's no worker barrel. I made more haulers, food and cabbage than should really be needed so there was plenty spare and got through it

[vast anchor]

Yeah I have plenty of food. I'm trying to make it for science.

[vast anchor]

Argh my haulers are just chilling in their building...

[vast anchor]

I finally built a Fermentation house. I think I'll have enough kimchi going forward but I had many haulers and enough cabage and brambles; it felt a bit broken.

[shell fiber]

ugh... i guess this crap will simply never work will it ?

i should just hide the non-worked barrel

[thorn dune]

I think so yeah. the building is good and you can limp on with one worker per barrel until you unlock it I think?

[shell fiber]

do you have quadruple terrain bounds ?

[shell fiber]

yeah, the fermentation houses are far better anyway

[thorn dune]

oh good question that sometimes falls off. I think I maybe don't at the moment, thanks!

worst case, with a worker per barrel you can micro your way through it. I haven't found a way to do that with the hauler barrels

[shell fiber]

problem is that when a barrel is filled with cabbage but no bramble flower, it appears 2/3 full, and is not a priority for filling

that's just annoying

i wish they looked at individual ressource being filled or not, not the building

[thorn dune]

ohhh that explains so much. yeah it's really hard to balance production to fill equally

[shell fiber]

tell me if the issue is fixed with 4x terrain bounds 🙂

[bronze ingot]

Hi, @shell fiber , giant half logs, where are they stored? And what are they used for? only 1 for megastructure engineering, I can't find anything else to use it

[shell fiber]

uuuh, now that you say it... they were mostly used for the megastructure engineer lodge (which doesn't exist anymore)

oh, right for the abyss elevator too

but tbh i might remove that ressource entirely

ah and also the giant log bridge i guess

hmm...

but they are stored in the giant log storage , except the visual is nonexistant

[shell fiber]

ho ahead 😅
i don't make any promise but feedback is always good 🙂

[radiant heart]

well, crash time...

[woeful sun]

btw, I just added click-to-search to https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/enUS_Waterbeavers.html which makes it much easier to answer questions like "what's it used for" 🙂

(click any dotted underline to search, click dotted underline again to show everything again)

[valid salmon]

so in the most recent update on mod.io, it mentions a crash relating to spadderdock. is this the thing that was causing the crashes after the update? i recall someone saying it had to do with buildings. are the mods working ? can i update my mods now?

[radiant heart]

i'm trying to update but keep on crashing, double checking in case i forgot to update one

if anyone can help plz and thank you

[valid salmon]

also, i think i downloaded my mods through the mod manager in the past, now when i update manually theres a manifest json file. do i keep the old json file?

or is the manifest just for what shows inside mod manager?

[radiant heart]

was able to start a new run so i guess it's something that broke old saves 😦 any chance it can be fixed?

[valid salmon]

it didnt break my save

i redid the mod folder from scratch though

btw @shell fiber idk if this is important enough to mention, but in the clockwork farms the lotus farm is still called 'spadderdock clockwork farm'

hydroponic*

[wispy crypt]

Is the experimental broken?

[sullen cape]

Mine's working fine, what error do you get?

[wispy crypt]

the water beaver faction doesn't show up when creating new game

I downloaded the 3.2.2 and the req but I can't play with the water beaver mod

[shell fiber]

You probably have some outdated dependency, make sure they all use the latest version

Otherwise you can post the crash log here

[wispy crypt]

When I create a new game the white paws don't show up. If I create a New game it plays like normal no crash, plus all the mods show up

checked all the mods are the latest version

[shell fiber]

hmm... that's weird, backward compatibility with the spadderdock CW farms seems dysfunctionnal, i can try something
Edit : found the bug !

[shell fiber]

uploading fix

[shell fiber]

if you want we can discuss about the map in #1193849875733946408 😉

[wispy crypt]

Just found the reason. When you download Water Beavers on Mod Manager, it auto downloads all dependencies but the mod doesn't recognize that they are installed. So you have to Uninstall and Install again.

[thorn dune]

yes it fixed it, working now, thanks

ok, I expect these tiny annoying 1 wide canyons from most custom maps but doing it when you made WB and know there's literally one building in there (tall and narrow lodge) that can block them and no flood gates or levees is very annoying! 🙂

hmm I only count 5 water sources. it'll be an aquifier play I guess

as in 5 strength total

[shell fiber]

Maybe it downloads the live version, but the live version is for u4

[wispy crypt]

When I checked all of the mods were on the latest version. But at least now I can play your LEGENDARY mod 😛

[shell fiber]

You're not supposed to flood the lemon grove I think😅

[thorn dune]

I'm afraid flooding the lemon grove was my first plan 😄

[shell fiber]

Too weak ?

[thorn dune]

it feels a little low for this size map to me, but as WB has the aquifer drills it's probably manageable

[shell fiber]

I'll change a few things si it doesn't look like it's the plan 😉

[shell fiber]

I don't know, maybe you're right

[thorn dune]

how can you call yourself a beaver and not want to dam this? 🙂

[shell fiber]

Since the river is 3-wide it can channel 6.6cms

[shell fiber]

🤔

But you also should want to save the trees

Or berries

Il probably add more cracks so it doesn't look like something dammable

[thorn dune]

not sure it's that easy, you can't dam the main ravine without also flooding this, and there's so much plateau surface daming the main ravine is the obvious end goal for the map

I guess you could protect the tree in there and make a new route for the water but I'm not clear on how to make it obvious you should

well the obvious approach works, stick a mine shaft there. huge sign you shouldn't flood it

I'm not sure any of what I'm saying is a good idea and I admit I am prone to making large dams for no real reason so my take may not be normal 🙂

I think it is a good map though, very excited to play it but I should probably finish on lost city flooded first
https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/lost-city-flooded

[shell fiber]

Oof, that's a lot of ruins

[shell fiber]

I wanted to keep the ruins flooded with bad water if possible

[thorn dune]

yeah I don't like having easy mineshafts lying around either, it's just the most clear way to stop players flooding anything

[shell fiber]

I'll think about it

[thorn dune]

corrected what i meant as it maybe wasn't clear, mineshafts shouldn't just be lying around to get to or use I agree

[vast anchor]

This is great. I was going to suggest something like that. Finding what makes something was hard unless I missed something. I was doing ctrl+f "sunflower oil" click next until you find the one with a green arrow.
Maybe a production check mark to hide all the requires would help.

[shell fiber]

made some updates to the map !
we can talk about it in #1193849875733946408

[vast anchor]

Wait where are these aquifer drills? Are they in u5? I think I've checked every menu item twice.
I have these but can't place them.

I see how I'd use the mechanic's lodge to make the robotic controller blueprint for it.

[wispy crypt]

In U5 there in water section

[vast anchor]

Thanks I was overlooking the water pump had a submenu.

That's cool. Are there any aquifer mechanics like depleting ground water and recharge?

[wispy crypt]

Haven't tried them yet so idk

[thorn dune]

I don't think so i think it's just screws -> water conversion

[vast anchor]

Yeah, seems like a large change to add aquifer mechanics. Brain storming; maybe you could have recharge pumps and have it get access to vast water storage.

[empty brook]

Sunken mines are my favorite

[vast anchor]

And you could have bad water in different areas of the map etc.

[shell fiber]

No it's magic, water is created ex nihilo

[shell fiber]

I don't particularly like maps that overdo bad water, looks like a bloody hellscape, not somewhere you'd want to settle 😅

[vast anchor]

I meant you'd have to drill for water and find bad water or good water under ground. But it sounds like a lot of work to implement something like that, and then balancing it from a game play point of view.

[vast anchor]

I do agree

Is it intentional that many things can't be built on platforms?

[wispy crypt]

I think it is

If I remember he said that going up is too easy

[vast anchor]

Yeah, feels right. I think the "solid" help text on platforms is misleading, but maybe it stuck there from the original devs?

[shell fiber]

Even if it was easy having a chance to find bad water would not be interesting I think, but having a "floating" number that fills up and deplete would be somewhat interesting though.

[shell fiber]

That is generated by the UI

I should really have a billboard for that 😓

[shell fiber]

Watertight can only be build on watertight

[vast anchor]

That's easy enough to remember

[shell fiber]

Yeah but first time player don't know it

And it's not written anywhere

[thorn dune]

confused me for a long time when I was first playing WB too

[vast anchor]

Yeah I unlocked the better platform expecting to be able to build things over the water

[wispy crypt]

Do Wild brambles become domesticated ones when submerged in water?

Or am I going nuts?

[vast anchor]

I'd have to try it.

Mine aren't

[wispy crypt]

And is this a bug or not?

ok then idk what is going on

[vast anchor]

How deep?

[wispy crypt]

1

[wispy crypt]

Idk then because the brambles where growing in the place I flooded

And I don't have a save before the flood

:/

[vast anchor]

Domesticated brambles still spread right?

[wispy crypt]

yea

[vast anchor]

So you killed them with the flood and than domesticated brambles move in once it wasn't flooded?

[wispy crypt]

no

The brambles were one place higher than the water before so if there were any they can't climb up

Now It doesn't matter because badwater just wanted to know if it was a bug

Now I think is my imagination :/

[shell fiber]

No they are "different" plants

[wispy crypt]

Then can they be planted on soil/ground?

Not submerged?

[shell fiber]

There is no conversion from one to the other, the wild ones are just completely unplantable

And both are okay in 1-deep water

[wispy crypt]

Ty

At least I am not going crazy 😛

[shell fiber]

I think now the domesticated ones yield more flowers pretty harvest

[wispy crypt]

Yea

1 more

[vast anchor]

We can't stack platforms - so the paper mill requires the two high platform.

[vast anchor]

I'm sure it is intentional and a joke RCE is in on, that Architect's lodge is a funny building.

[wispy crypt]

And you can use it as stairs

[vast anchor]

Yep but with it being three tall I guess very hard building to use as stairs. I did find a spot.

What do you store braised cabbage in. I have some on the ground in rubble.

[wispy crypt]

warm storage

you need need the Hand then the storage on top

[shell fiber]

Well yes, but I also think that architects tend to design crappy stuff😅

[vast anchor]

And the door on the side you'd put up to a cliff face.

[shell fiber]

Thankfully now they are flippable 😉

[wispy crypt]

What is the best way remove half of the map of brambles?

Demolish or wood cutting?

[heavy lodge]

Nope... flood with badwater !

[wispy crypt]

not viable :/

for me

[heavy lodge]

No matter then, just need to place a path just when a bramble is remove, to not spread again

[wispy crypt]

Yea thats what I am doing just wondering if builders or wood cutters do faster job 😛

[valid salmon]

so, what do you guys do when you reach a city size large enough that the water sources simply cant support beavers anymore? there's no way to purify badwater to clean water as I understand it. the water aquifer pumps? can i place those anywhere?

[radiant heart]

it worked, thanks!

[radiant heart]

yup, aquifer is the solution

[radiant heart]

ho boy am I lost, feels like i haevn't played this year

is there an efficient way to treat the lotus or it's only hadicrafter lodge? removed a ton of those when i got to domesticated brambles. guess i'll have to build them back up

welp, looks like showers got shorter on that one, intended?

[woeful sun]

@vast anchor yea,I was doing the same thing and decided it could be quicker 🙂 I think it should be possible to hide/show producers and consumers, but instead of multiple buttons maybe a single that has 3 states (producers/consumers/both)

And it can be re-used for planting/harvesting and positive/negative effects

and unfortunately it's not possible to ctrl+f for the green arrow

I can take a look, but it won't be before the weekend.

[red mulch]

Mod's great but god. badtides SUCK

I have not had a single save where I've had things under control enough before a badtide to reroute the flow in time or with any degree of efficiency

like I enjoy the concepts but your options with flow control is: stop it or slow it

and neither help the Whitepaws on maps without the ability to cheese solution block with buildings temporarily

I've also found it essentially impossible to get a reservoir or dam or anything before the first drought because of how costly dams are, which is fine, but stuff like pump efficiency EVEN NEXT TO WATER STORAGE is insanely low

I'm okay with "hard way" beavers, I just thought I'd share some thoughts on things that just don't sit well atm because of badwater as an addition to the game

[radiant heart]

there is one guy doing the dam in one cycle challenge with the WB, almost got it up. quite interesting to see the strats he's going for

[red mulch]

dang, link?

I'd be interested

[radiant heart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQULeEpWJqs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJkJpuIdpvI&t=3s

looks doable but need quite a tight build order

[red mulch]

Damn!

Also that’s U4 so oh god badtide on U5

[radiant heart]

even on hard mode you are not getting badtides i think for 3 cycles at least so daming up in one doesn't really change anytingh regarding the bad tides

[red mulch]

I just mean floodgates are intentionally made hard to get

as far as WBO goes

[thorn dune]

I just accidently left the poor beavers unpaused when I went out for a few hours. somehow they survived and made me 850 science. gj beavers

[radiant heart]

i'm not even using them, i just let the beavers get contaminated and have a run in the washing machine

[red mulch]

... that's genius

[radiant heart]

for irrigation the water canon is quite OP

[red mulch]

I AM GONNA DO IT THIS TIME

[vast anchor]

It seems that way. I haven't played enough to know how much.

[radiant heart]

with natural holes not too far from the river it's a set and forget thing compared to the lidos that may suck your reserves dry early on

[radiant heart]

Yay found a way to do it without the double ladder stack!
Step 1 :tall platform
Step 2: pillar!

@shell fiber think one issue with pumpkins chips is they don't give pumpkins in the buffs so the pumpkins get eaten raw before processing, would it mess it up that much for chips to give pumpkins too in wellbeeing?

[shell fiber]

oops

[radiant heart]

and turns out the spadderdock/lotus swap didn't mess up my game, had enough CW to manage without needing to dig and replant 😄

[shell fiber]

basic pumps have the same properties are vanilla pumps, except they are houses, so efficiency issues are not specific to this mod.

[shell fiber]

bad water hits really hard yeah, but the issue is that if people have easy ways to defeat bad tides efficiently... well may as well remove bad tides entirely

i get a bit frustrated with those because effectively the only thing you can grow on contaminable land is trees, but that also means that when a badtide starts everythign stops for a good 20 cycles, the time it ends plus new trees to grow and be cut

but i don't think building a house to block water and then destory it once the bad tide is over is that cheesy, provided the house is used as a house of course

but once you start to tech up, the floodgate dam is efficient enough to solve the badtide entirely. but you need to research the blueprints and then build it which is expensive

and yes, you can't realistically have a dam build before the first drought, that's too short, but the first few droughts are very easy to survive with stored barrels

[radiant heart]

forget the dams, washing machine for the win!

[shell fiber]

but it still kills your plants 🙂

[radiant heart]

did you look up the videos i linked? pretty sure the dam before first drought can be done but it's quite tight and map dependant

[shell fiber]

i started but not sure i'll have time to watch it today

[radiant heart]

think my first playtrough i did it before 2nd drought and it didn't change taht much

after that it wasn't that much needed with irrigation towers

[shell fiber]

they don't ?
now they do (a little)

[shell fiber]

best solution to do that plan if you ask me is to build a couple houses in the river and then a tiny dam. the mine cart carries some scrap for making fasteners, and instead of building the mine, maybe burn some wood into charcoal in a woodburner, then raze it to reclaim the clay for the ironworks

that saves 4 planks that he had to use for the mine, that's 4.2x5x4= 84 beaver work hours

but i didn't calculate how much time clay digging takes to be fair

either way

i'll be taking my plane back to japan tomorrow, GN !

[sullen cape]

Safe trip!

The first badtide lasted for two days, and it killed all but one berry bush. The bushes are recovering, but it's slow. My science is incredibly slow too 🫠

[radiant heart]

smart, might wanna give Nix that solution

GN, have a safe trip!

[radiant heart]

maps where berries are too close from the river sure are painfull( helix is quite nasty for that) need some good RNG that the bushes spread away from the river

[sullen cape]

Yup

At least I managed to solve badtides? I just have to complete a dam and it's diverted away from my main area. Need a bigger res though

[tall cobalt]

Anyway, Crashlanding is an easy map on badtides mode once you realize that the secret is using the center crater as a giant lake by using a dam drain house

Creating an artificial lake on a map that does not have lake-shaped holes is substantially harder

since then you need to make watering holes with waterproof houses

[sullen cape]

I'm thinking of eventually just using dynamite, and a lot of it. And maybe terraforming

[radiant heart]

terraforming takes forever, has to be a small project unless you plan on going on for 100+cycles

[sullen cape]

I mean...looking at my last save file 🫣

[empty brook]

55 cycles to make a 2 wide dirt from a height of me 12 to the max of 88 with x4 terrain bounds

[shell fiber]

Tbh the hobby gardeners are a far more reasonable source of berries than I thought. I had some issues with sawdust clogging so I build four, now I have a small excess of berries.
Cereal bars are also pretty good, as soon as you get a minor excess it compounds

[shell fiber]

Yeah I increased a bit the cost of dynamite since u4 to put the brakes on total flattening strategies

[sullen cape]

Oh don't worry I won't flatten the entire map, I like keeping the original shape normally

[thorn dune]

cereal bars are great. if i don't need dynamite early making 10 paper the slow way then destroying the paper maker and building a food place is well worth it.
I can fix the paper situation when I have enough tech for the mechanic/gears

[empty brook]

My train doesn't have breaks. I'll just build more to compensate for your breaks

https://tenor.com/view/smg4-kirby-more-i-want-more-give-me-more-gif-26345920

[radiant heart]

Lotus flowers stacking up and can't get enough nenuphars 🤔 time for some good old delete warehaouse and rubbles strat unless i'm missing something

[thorn dune]

I was thinking it would end that way for me too, but I haven't got far enough to really push it yet

[radiant heart]

got 1.4k flowers stored up and nenuphars barely blink on for a sec, it's gone as soon as it gets in

[radiant heart]

can we get a receipe to burn the flowers in the burner plz ! 😝

[vast anchor]

Have all of the recommended mods been patched?

[radiant heart]

that i'm aware of, Yes

[vast anchor]

Cool I'll have to add them again. In steam its probably a good idea to disable automatic updates for timberborn.

right?

Oh nevermind I guess, I don't see how

[heavy lodge]

Go offline

[radiant heart]

not sure how to, anyway U5 goes live in just a bit over a week

[vast anchor]

oh cool

[vast anchor]

What do you mean?

[heavy lodge]

This way, will never be able to update. And, game itself must be set to update on launch ! So, when play Timberborn, go offline, for other games, stay online.

[vast anchor]

Oh I see, only update when I launch and make sure I'm offline before I launch it.

[thorn dune]

the worst thing about steam is that you can't stop updates in any reasonable way

[heavy lodge]

But, you can block them

[vast anchor]

I was also wondering if there was a way to have a second copy of the game for moding.

[heavy lodge]

You can, if you make a second instances of steam

[wispy crypt]

is there a better building to craft screwpress axles?

[empty brook]

GoG store let's me pick different patches individually. Until they finalize a version then I only get that version. I can roll back to at least version 3. I never tried the lower version though

[vast anchor]

Hm, I think I found a blance issue. The Power Wheel only puts out 5 hp. The light gravity battery 5 high can hold 8400 hph.
So 8400 / 5 = 1680 beaver hours.

I had 12 wheels = 60 hp so 140 hours to recharge.
I can demolish it and build a full charged one in a day. Maybe I have a lot of workers or haulers at the moment, but less the 12 total.

Demolishing and rebuilding it; I loose 2 metal fasteners, 3 planks, and 1 log. I didn't add in time for making those. But it seems much cheaper, in beaver hours.

Or you know I was crazy for trying to charge them that way and it is just right.

So nevermind 😄

Just build more water wheels

[wispy crypt]

I use windmills there good 😛

[vast anchor]

Yeah I need to get better at get them up high enough.

[wispy crypt]

you need one overhang walkway and then place the windmill

you just need the hight

[vast anchor]

use existing mountains?

[wispy crypt]

yea and just need the cliff to be 3/6/9/12 high

if you need more want more power just dynamite under it and place better one 😛

[vast anchor]

Yeah that's not so bad.

[wispy crypt]

Just need to find the cliffs and have vertical power shafts if you are under the cliff

Just don't place the windmill under on top of a power shaft

[vast anchor]

So wait the windmills need to be exactly 3/6/9/12 high?

[wispy crypt]

Yea

[empty brook]

I mean they can go higher, just no real reason to

[vast anchor]

The windmills? I don't seem to be able to place them unless it is exact.

[rare ferry]

Did something happen to the no worker fermentation barrels? It says in the description that its depreciated, but it cant be as its the only way I see to get kimchi before the house now.

[tall cobalt]

Hey sorry but wiki updates are going to have to take a backseat to IRL stuff for me for a bit, if anyone else wants in feel free to do what you need to

[shell fiber]

Lotus tea doesn't consume enough ? I was thinking about giving the clockwork farm the option to only make nénuphars or lotus flowers specifically to avoid that

[shell fiber]

I'm slowly getting to considering it

[shell fiber]

Worker-less fermentation barrel keep being problematic so I'll move to only staffed fermentation barrels I think, but even though it says deprecated they still work.
Edit : or do you mean the one in the build menu says that too? In which case that's an error.

[shell fiber]

The power wheel is nerfed to pointlessness, that's intentional (I leave it because otherwise people would ask "hey I can't find the power wheel")

Personally I consider razing / rebuilding batteries for power up be kind of an exploit, but considering how annoying that seems to be... meh

[shell fiber]

No worries, thanks for your efforts !
I'll see if I find time to look at it

[shell fiber]

Many buildings have "fake floors" that can support the flag of the windmills, but your primary source of power is expected to be water flow. Hence the PW nerf

Hurray ! 20k downloads on this mod 🎉😊

[sullen cape]

Congrats Lapan!

[heavy lodge]

20K downloads is nice. I wish to know how many Tb 😮 🤣

[woeful sun]

Harder to tell, because it's on 4 different game stores

[heavy lodge]

and , ModIO dont give that information

[woeful sun]

SteamDB has # of current players (not total dl count)

ModIO shows 103k downloads for BepInExPack, 84k for TimberAPI, and 78k for Mod Manager, which can be used as a very rough estimate of number of modded-Tb

[pine geyser]

others beaver are working are working fine but when i load water beaver game crashes

[rare ferry]

Thats what Im getting now when I'm hovering over the build icon for the only tank that is there (which I think is the unmanned tank).

[vast anchor]

A few of us chatted about (my) troubles with making kimchi a few days ago. #1070709592176197642 message

I wanted to try making a district dedicated to it, that way the haulers in it would have nothing else to do and see if it worked.

[vast anchor]

Are you running U5 or U4? In U5 the Timberborn patch that went out a few days ago broke many mods and they had to be updated. I think most of them have been, check that you have the latest.
I've had luck reading the content of the black console window that launches with the game. Sometimes the error messages are like this mod is out of date. Other times it is less helpful. If you can't make sense of it you could post it here.

[pine geyser]

i thought so i have not seen the update so i did not knew there was a update and just found out about the update

thanks

[rancid temple]

Grats

[wispy crypt]

Why is there a slider for the balloon trader landing ?

pad

[empty brook]

I always wondered that too lol

[shell fiber]

It's an artifact due to the landing pad generating power from nothing, just disregard it.

note that since i changed the balloons to consume some amount of methane, i could get the methane to be consumed by the landing pad for power

[wispy crypt]

Yea but the slider, is it better to leave it to 2

[shell fiber]

fixed, will be in the next update, but this one should work, it is manned.
but my advice is that you should move to fermentation houses

[wispy crypt]

And haulers don't work with the balloon is this a bug?

The only one the brings the things is the landing pad guy

[woeful sun]

oh, I thought it was to select if you wanted 1 balloon or 2 balloons active at a time

[shell fiber]

they do, but it's always fiddly with unmanned buildings. for example to store seeds you need to set the storage space to "obtain" and prioritize by haulers to make them go to the balloon, take the seeds and bring them to the warehouse.
but if you are building a tree nursery at the same time, the builders can directly get them from the balloon

i might give the balloons a worker too eventually because this kind of things is just too annoying.

[wispy crypt]

Yea what I am saying is that only 1 beaver loads the balloon

Now it's fine but for it to start I had to wait like 3m

But now its fine it's slow enough so it filled up

[rare ferry]

I agree, but currently you have to have the barrels to make the houses. Unless the Tar requirement for the house is removed.

[vast anchor]

I'm not expecting it to work but did anyone ever try adding the ChooChoo mod to water beavers?

[thorn dune]

I had had both enabled at the same time by acccident and I haven't seen choochoo stuff in any menus. I think WB redoes the menus so much it vanishes?

or maybe I was just not looking hard enough. it woudn't be the first time

[shell fiber]

In principle ChooChoo can work because it is just adding new systems, but it doesn't have a faction specification file for waterbeavers. if anyone wants to try, it's as easy as taking the FactionSpecification.folktails.json, duplicating it and renaming the copy FactionSpecification.waterbeavers.json

[shell fiber]

yes you have to start with barrels, that's normal

[empty brook]

Wouldn't the assets need to be there or would they just default to FT?

Was looking forward to either white or pink rail ties

[shell fiber]

would use the FT variants. you could have the It variants if you duplicate the IT specifications instead.
i would need to ask tobbert if he's interested in making it WP compatible, but that's likely not a priority for him

[empty brook]

Ya I wouldn't wanna bother him with it rn

I was jw cuz I never tried

[vast anchor]

I'm going to try it. There are nested folders in the specifications folder can I just leave it in there?
ChooChoo_0.8.8\Specifications\Folktails\FactionSpecification.Folktails.json
Copy and rename it to ChooChoo_0.8.8\Specifications\Folktails\FactionSpecification.waterbeavers.json
Is it case-sensitive?

If it breaks and I want my map back... do I go to a backup or is there a way to recover it?

[shell fiber]

i copy pasted the right name so your thing seems correct

as long as you have a manual save, they are never overvritten by autosaves

if you alway only rely on autosaves...bad idea

[vast anchor]

I'll make a manual save.

[vast anchor]

Does that trick work with other mods?

[shell fiber]

it may, but anything that calls a ressource that doesn't actually exist will cause crashes so...

[shell fiber]

Just tossing an idea out there : originally I made fermentation barrels because I liked the idea of having small unmanned production buildings staffed by haulers, but as soon as they require more than one ingredient, they keep getting stuck because of how the game calculates priorities.

So here's the options I think could be interesting if I remove fermentation barrels entirely :
(Most options are mutually exclusive)

• remove science lock and tar cost from the fermentation house and make it 2-tall with 3 barrels instead of 3 tall and 6 barrels (adjust speed accordingly)
• same idea but in a tent-like building (not a house, not watertight, not stackable)
• give cooking tent an inefficient kimchi recipe. (that's not how kimchi is made but whatever)
• give the cooking tent a recipe to make "kimchi mix" that then goes in the fermentation barrel
• same but a "preparator" house does that (also prepares lotuses and chestnut beer)
• I think I had one more but forgot

right now i think my favoured solution is either (1) or (3)

i think the preparator would annoy people with unnecessary population creep

[distant wigeon]

I'm partial to 4. Maybe 5 if it's a tent and not a house?

[sullen cape]

Make a bug report? Especially with IT Engines now not having a worker, I feel like buildings that don't employ workers should work fine

Oh and I daresay does pausing the Library also pause the debuff? I guess when you pause the IT Tribute to Ingenuity it pauses giving out the buff for it so...

[thorn dune]

1 for me, especially as you tech locked the awesome pit+ladder liquid storage building and I need a new useful dam building to mass produce

[shell fiber]

I don't think so but if you pause the library you also lose on the +3 wellbeing it gives just for being open, so it's a fair trade-off

[shell fiber]

I think it's basically equivalent to two liquid storage houses though 🤔
Unless the point is to make a tower or being safe from bad water

[vast anchor]

I like the idea of having a some building make "kimchi mix" that goes in to the barrel

Oh first crash with the choochoo mod and waterbeavers, I clicked build train and got a crash and a stacktrace in the console window. Oh well I didn't really expect it to work 🙂

[shell fiber]

oh, that's a shame, i don't see anything really obvious i could patch.

maybe when U5 goes live we can poke at tobbert to make it work, i don't think it's worth the hassle at the moment

[thorn dune]

liquid storage is good too but anything that lets me put the city more in a dam is good. if things are in cook ~~houses ~~ tents or barrels I can't make a dam from them

especially early, there's some custom maps that really need a large dam early to get going and it can be a struggle

I actually think they're slightly easier with WB than base game at first as WB house dams are cheaper than massed flood gates or leeves in base game

[shell fiber]

which map are you on ?

[thorn dune]

this is the one where a big dam early is very helpful
https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/barrens

[shell fiber]

Seems like a pretty interesting map

[thorn dune]

I love it, though the start is a bit technical

[shell fiber]

It doesn't seem like there is a lot of fresh water, I feel that most maps are like that now.

So I'm thinking more and more about making my nuclear power plant consume bad water and output clean water

But to be fair I didn't make any progress on that front recently, been mostly playtesting

[shell fiber]

settlement becomming nicer and nicer

especially since i build those large water wheels that make a bazillion power

for now i'm very satified with the washing machine, you can effectively disregard contamination due to swimming in bad water

what i'm not super happy with is the balloons, you can build all 5 as soon as the landing pad is unlocked, but most give stuff that are just luxuries or are otherwise not usefull

also the large aquifer pump is powerful to the point of being ridiculous, i have 400 beavers and filling my tanks use to take a while, but since i build it i have constantly 9k water in storage. if you run the math it makes 5 water every 1/6th of an hour, or 30 water per hours, hence 720 water/day, which is exactly 10 pumps if pumps were working 24h/24

but that's mostly fine, i just think i need to push it back a tiny bit more tech wise, maybe have it require some hooman nonsense dug from the ruins.

oh right, i also kind of feel that the clockwork farms are really not all that useful without the ability to stack them, which comes far later

so i might roll back on the "robotic controller blueprint" thing

probably something like make it an ENS research thing

and put back in the blueprints for the mech drill and aquifer pump

or just the mech drill, the aquifer pump is just a pump, it can simply be science locked

(if anyone has feedback on all this rambleing)

one thing i kind of wanted to have was somethign like needing to "discover" the other beaver tribes

but... that seems like yet more custom items that would be single-use soo...

oh, here's an idea regarding the balloons :

maybe the first balloon can just be a scouting balloon, that produces "exploration" or whatever ressource we call it, then other balloons don't cost science but require an amount of "exploration" that depends on who we want to trade with (polar beavers being the most distant, hence most expensive for example

that's basically the same idea i had for the abyss, one reciepe would just be to explore it, making a different kind of "exploration" ressources, used the same way to build deep mine modules

but most importantly, i think i need to decide whether i want to have hauling bots or not. honestly i don't like bots so much, but i kind of like the idea of an endgame where beavers don't have to work anymore

maybe i can achieve that without bots though 🤔

if i drop the idea of having bots, then i need to rework (again) what each balloon gives

[sullen cape]

On helix mountain I was considering using Aquifer pumps to deal with my lack of water problems, but I was thinking spamming them was a little boring

I'm interested to see what water bots look like, at least 🙂

My population keeps crashing down to 2-4 beavers on hard lol 🤣

[thorn dune]

well fewer types of bp is far, far easier as you can copy them. so even if you moved clockwork things later it would be a direct nerf to mech drill + aquifer pump for them to need unique bp

[thorn dune]

yes, though, there actually is a lot of water, far more than lemon canyon. it's just mixed in.
so you have to work to separate it out to pure water and they you get loads of it to use.
I agree this seems to be how custom "hard" maps are going now

and as you've asked for more feedback have some useless feedback on bots, I'm here to play the map, make it green, organise the water with farms and trees to make use of the land and once that's done I'm done.
so I've never made bots in any game vOv

[sullen cape]

Oops I love updates 🤣

[rare ferry]

Yep, right after I got my stream scheduled too.

[sullen cape]

Oh noooo

And you can't revert experimental either 😭

[shell fiber]

Aaah shit

Is it tapi or specific to this mod ?

Ah it probably has to do with the rooftop terrace and exercise plaza

If someone really can't wait (@rare ferry) you can try to go into the faction specification. Waterbeaver. Original file, look for something that seems to match those two things (ctrl-f) and delete/comment them out

Otherwise I'll try to fix and update in maybe 5-6 hours

[rare ferry]

No Rush. Ill just postpone till next week. I'm no modder so Ill just leave that to the experts.

[shell fiber]

okay, got it fixed

just needed to update the scripts

i'll upload it later though

[tepid thistle]

Idk what I’m looking at in these files, will wait patiently for update to be posted

[shell fiber]

fix uploaded

[radiant heart]

I guess one of each would be the best ( sry bout delay, still on my trip) and I can’t tell for early stuff, my testing run is quite endgame.
Will probably start another run when I come back or wait a few days for official U5 release

[radiant heart]

Has to be a super late game thing, it’s when you are rocking a couple big aquifer you really munch them hyper fast

[radiant heart]

Don’t lie, you also leave it for hard mode weirdos 🤣😜

[radiant heart]

Fermentation house needs science, need fermentation for science….

[radiant heart]

You know how I like those « tent » buildings sooo, Let’s GOOOO!

[shell fiber]

hmm...might do, but the benefit of having houses that are worth mass-producing is huge 🤔

[radiant heart]

I’d just keep the barrel with worker IMO it looks nice and fits the « low tech » early game

[radiant heart]

He probably will, he was happy to make it compatible back then, if he got the time I’m pretty sure he will

Need to be a reasonable human beeing for once, still got 2 days of tradeshow, gonna poke at the new update sometime Tuesday 😉

Had to hop in a bit and get my fix!
Later 👋

[shell fiber]

have fun !

i'm thinking about making a tower variant for builders in the end, by the time you reach it you won't raze the old builder's lodges that are stuck in the middle of a dam, and when you really start needing a crapton of builders, the extra housing is very painful

[sullen cape]

My game loads, thanks again Lapan ☺️

[slate jacinth]

btw, just made https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/tbmplworkerlessrecipehaulingfix ... will need some play-testing to see how effective it will be ... if it works well enough we may be able to keep the workerless production buildings. Gotta check how it would affect something like the drill (emptying it that is) too
also made https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/tbmplwaterpumppipeextension ... which is kinda a cheese mod, but would also allow the input pipes of the waterpumps to retract all the way (0 depth) with the ingame setting on 'em - which could be useful for the WB pumps as a way to stop 'em from pumping all the water up ... without pausing them (we don't want to make any beavers homeless, do we?)

[radiant heart]

Why not use the eng building? Give it maybe 8 instead of 4 workers and a couple bonuses
Walking speed is always nice to have when they go terraform in space to place batteries 😉

[shell fiber]

hmm... yeah that's an option

[shell fiber]

holy crap thanks ! i need to test this thing immediately

does this TBMPL thing work with or replace TAPI etc ?

[shell fiber]

hmm... either that doesn't work, or there's something i'm doing wrong 🤔

[empty brook]

I believe it should work with

[shell fiber]

i see in the console that tbmpl is loaded, but the priorities on the testing barrels are unchanged 😥

[empty brook]

Why not give the WB a hauling building out right? But like WB-fi it. I mean it could require a master's in logistics from the ENS, then employ 10(and their families ofc.) Could be a huge building to accommodate the 30 beds

[sullen cape]

There is the lategame hauling tower at least

[shell fiber]

yep, there is a huge hauling tower that hires 30 beavers, but it's locked behind giant sequoias

i just got a super idea to balance the builder's tower 🙂

it's just going to consume some tools

like, you hire a whole battallion of untrained beavers to build your stuff faster, they're bound to lose half of your tools every other week

[shell fiber]

actually, the issue i have with that is just... i don't like the design of the building anymore 😥

at the moment i think i'm going for a huge tower, but this time it will have an internal ladder and openings at every floor in a spiral. that will make the other towers FAR easier to use.

because i at last reached the point where i wanted to use the hauling tower, but that really is a stupid building to place 🤣

like what kind of maniac placed the entrance on the 8th floor ? 😅

[storm prawn]

yeah, jumped the gun a bit there as I was still testing it (there is some improvement, but not quite enough) ... will write back once I'm sure it works properly ... it was still acting out a bit, and I gotta fix things for hauling away the production outputs anyway
it does show up in the log/console though, right? or did I mess up the release on mod.io ...

[shell fiber]

::::::::::: :::::::::  ::::    ::::  :::::::::  :::
    :+:     :+:    :+: +:+:+: :+:+:+ :+:    :+: :+:
    +:+     +:+    +:+ +:+ +:+:+ +:+ +:+    +:+ +:+
    +#+     +#++:++#+  +#+  +:+  +#+ +#++:++#+  +#+
    +#+     +#+    +#+ +#+       +#+ +#+        +#+
    #+#     #+#    #+# #+#       #+# #+#        #+#
    ###     #########  ###       ### ###        ##########

TimberBorn Modular Plugin Loader
Game: 0.5.6.4

[Info   :TBMPL_Core] Search for plugins
[Info   :TBMPL_Core] Found 40 available dll files
[Info   :TBMPL_Core] Found System.Linq.Enumerable+WhereSelectArrayIterator`2[System.String,TBMPLCore.Plugin.Loader.PluginFile] potential plugins
[Info   :TBMPL_Core] Validated: WorkerlessRecipe_HaulingFix.EP in 280ms
[Info   :TBMPL_Core] Search completed in 313ms
[Info   :TBMPL_Core] 1 valid plugins, loading
[Warning:TBMPL_Core] A newer version is available: 5.3.1
[Warning:TBMPL_Hauling22RecipeFix] A newer version is available: 1.0.1
[Warning:TBMPL_Hauling22RecipeFix] New version available
[Info   :TBMPL_Hauling22RecipeFix] Updating...
[Info   :TBMPL_Core] Revalidated: WorkerlessRecipe_HaulingFix.EP in 569ms
[Info   :TBMPL_Hauling22RecipeFix] Successfully updated to version: 1.0.1
[Info   :TBMPL_Core] Loaded   : Fixing hauling priority to unmanned production buildings dropping off way too early (1.0.1) in 1257ms
[Message:TBMPL_Core] Loading of 1 plugins completed in 1589ms
[Info   :   BepInEx] Loading [TimberAPI BepInEx Entrypoint 1.0.0]
[Message:   BepInEx] Chainloader startup complete
[Info   : Unity Log] Starting game version 0.5.6.4-600e5ef-xsw
[Info   : Unity Log] System info:
System: Windows 10  (10.0.19045) 64bit```
well that seems correct to me

[shell fiber]

so it's not me who messed up?

so if i understand correctly, the priority is now meant to be the product of all empty ratios ?

let's say i have a building that requires 2 ressource, both are 30% full, so the priority is 0.7² = 0.49

hmm

if one is 70% full but the other is 30% that gives 0.3*0.7=0.21 that means that neither deliveries are going to be made 🤔

hmmm

[slate jacinth]

It's 1 (100%) Minus that ... well, i still gotta fix It up ... wonder where the problema could be ... btw It seems unavailable goods dont enter the equation

[shell fiber]

Hmm... An other option could be to choose whichever gives the highest priority, that can cause some slightly inefficient behaviours in haulers, but that guarantees that building will always receive deliveries until the last available one is half full.
Basically deliveries that have a priority under 0.5 are rare, and under 0.3-0.4 they just never happen

But most buildings have dedicated workers so inefficiencies are not an issue, but if your script could fix unplanned buildings that would be amazing 😃

[slate jacinth]

I'll try to figure something out later. More methods to patch ... Oh well
It should be working decently well already, as i changed the Logic to give the lowest individual fullness ratio among them for the inputs/ingredients and the highest for the output/products in v1.0.4
But yeah, It could use a few more tweaks/optizimations

[radiant heart]

It is stoopid but if fits all the other stoopid stuff 🤷‍♂️

[radiant heart]

Pretty sure you know one 🤪

[thorn dune]

is this why the game always spreads resources out across multiple buildings of the same type?
the one with least is always highest priority?

I need to build fewer buildings, or pause more

[shell fiber]

not sure of the details, but yes, that is definitely a possibility

[vast anchor]

How does the game normally decide where to send the haulers?

The game's code for InventoryFillCalculator.GetInventoryFillPercentage looks like it just total current stock / total storage space, for all storable goods.
Reading the patched GetInventoryFillPercentage it looks like it will return the % with the highest fill level. So if it took 3 resources
0/10
0/10
10/10
It would return 100%.

I think I reading that right. I don't know how it is used by the rest of the game.
The other patched method, InventoryFillCalculator.GetInputFillPercentage, in the games code looks like it just calls GetInventoryFillPercentage, but only for input goods.

The patched version looks like it would return the min % for input goods.
How will these be used by the game?

I'm down a rabbit hole of decompiled code 😄

[slate jacinth]

i had to make two patches ... one to give the highest percentage for the outputs/products and another to give the lowest percentage for inputs/ingredients ... since input-filling priority is 100% - acquired%, but output-taking priority is just plain stocked%

right now I'm cleaning up the code, and trying to find someway to give workerless buildings extra priority

[vast anchor]

I was trying to figure out how the game devs do it for the breading pods.

Does the Inventory object know if the building has workers?

[slate jacinth]

doesn't seem so

I think I got it now ... gotta test it

[vast anchor]

There are a few of us trying to figure things out in the beaver-noises voice chat

[vast anchor]

What component does the fermentation barrel use to store its items?

[slate jacinth]

it's done, made an extra patch to further raise hauling priority on buildings with a ProductionIncreaser component (which should be the ones meant to keep producing without workers, right?)
for workerless workshops ... inputs will now get filled with full (1.0) priority until completely full and outputs emptied with extra priority (2xmax_fullness%, max 1.0)
in case it makes things weird, starting with v1.0.6 the additional tweak/patch can be disabled from the config file

[radiant heart]

Would be nice if top of those towers were attractions to get « nice view » not much place for that since irrigation is gone, also makes me think about it. Last I checked I had 0 beavers visiting campfires and the buff at 0 even if the buffet is supposed to give it.

And dropped working hours to 15 so it’s not like if they don’t have the time for that. Could it be some weird thing like when the washing machine was giving clean fur too? 🤔

[stone halo]

this fix fixed the issue of beavers not delivering things?

[slate jacinth]

from my personal testing, yes ... it's probably still not quite optimal in implementation, but it works

[valid salmon]

huh. i have a weird bug

Theres a storage which has metal blocks, around 35 in it. Theres a bunch of stuff im building with it. But the thing just never gets built because a beaver keeps going to and fro from the storage and the storage amount goes like, 35-32-29-21-19-24-26-29-35 at like full speed

idk how to do a video capture to show that

and the beavers who try to take the blocks from the factory directly just say 'carries - nothing'

[valid salmon]

is this what the issue is?

[valid salmon]

there should be 2 variants with the most efficient being a 'buried' type building. we do typically ferment things underground. I think the inefficient kimchi idea is good, or alternatively add a salt requirement in the kitchen version if thats an option. maybe for kimchi mix, thats a good idea, but at that point youre dedicating a worker anyway

[shell fiber]

I believe the breeding pods have their own system because delivering to those can be done by any beaver including during rest time, it or least I think that is his it was intended.

[shell fiber]

Don't know, it's generated as part of the manufactory script I believe

[shell fiber]

That seems good, I'll test it asap (i.e. this evening)

[shell fiber]

Not sure to be honest.
I might do some cleaning in all the unnecessary wellbeing stuff like nice view and spacious house.

[valid salmon]

theyre builders and they just stand here forever

[shell fiber]

Hmmm... Do you know what it is they are trying to build ? 🤔

[valid salmon]

its most likely a medium flywheel, but theres also a squeewe platform thingy somewhere

[shell fiber]

Oh that's an interesting idea 🤔

[valid salmon]

thy seem to pick up the blocks and put it back over and over until they get hungry/thirsty then they leave

[shell fiber]

Last time I saw this is was an issue with the building not being accessible or something 🤔 but I don't remember exactly

[valid salmon]

i literally saved and zoomed in like this and watched them for 5 days

the flywheel is accessible, they put in 13 blocks and now its just stuck lol

[shell fiber]

🤔

Try to pause unpause the buildings hiring the builders?

[valid salmon]

okay, i'll try that.

[shell fiber]

Those are builders right ? When you click on them you can see where they work

[valid salmon]

yes

so i paused and unpaused all of them

didnt make a difference

doesnt seem to happen with other resources, oddly enough

like, theyre building stairs elswhere and taking planks from the storage just fine

[slate jacinth]

That's weird ... If you got my patch, also try disabling It for now, just in case. Gotta check i didn't accidentally break building stuff, as soon as i get back from work this evening

[valid salmon]

the issue persists before and after installing it

i installed it after i noticed the issue, no difference

I tried destroying the storage, and changing the type of storage pile, maybe it was an issue related to the 2tall-2long mod

no difference

and its JUST the metal blocks, oddly

and get this: i destroyed all metal block storage to see if the beavers would pick the blocks up directly from the factory

carries nothing???

wait this is happening to scaffoldings too

dont think its builders overall, cause theyre delivering my explosives, planks and logs jsut fine

[slate jacinth]

well, haulers don't bring resources directly to a build site
Try Pausing the squewee platform? It's likely out of reach ... it seems

[valid salmon]

man how many blocks have been disappearing im pretty sure this flywheel has been under construction for so many cycles now

[valid salmon]

okay

this guy 100% took it

i deleted the squewee

and only kept the flywheel active location

it came, took the block out of the factory inventory

but is carrying nothing

[slate jacinth]

It actually decreased the factory's stock of metal blocks? Seems the game got a new bug ...

[valid salmon]

yes

i was playing on slowest speed

and zoomed in, checking every beaver who walked into the factory

[slate jacinth]

Guess you could try deleting Timberborn_Data and revalidating the game on steam. If that fails to fix the issue, gotta make a bug report to Mechanistry ... If it also happens
with FT/IT and not just WB

[valid salmon]

im trying other buildings

the thing is i tried building a bridge and they delivered the blocks fine

its just to the squewee platform and flywheel that I see this

then I tried building a flywheel on the ground and it worked fine. but why would they lose access to the flywheel, when they delivered 13 blocks prior to this

gonna try destroying some buildings to see whats the cause

(the original flywheel in question is 4th in a series of vertical direction flywheels that I'm building from the top)

[slate jacinth]

Seems not to be completely broken then ... Still, what a weird issue ... wait, how could they lose access from the top?

[shell fiber]

That probably has to do with the skewer platform, I need to check what's wrong with it.

Can you make some screenshots to see what you have build under it?

If I remember correctly it happened before and it was a weird issue like the beaver things something is accessible but it's not, so it can be due to a building under it. many buildings have fake floors specifically for placing windmills and side platforms but some are make in a slightly sloppy way

And yes this kind of issue can cause resources to be deleted

[slate jacinth]

@valid salmon
Could probably use a save? They still had the issue after deleting that platform, with the flywheel

[empty brook]

I had this happen to me on a non WB run. Never did figure out what happened or get it to fix. Removed all mods an behavior went away

Mine was planks

It's definitely induced by a mod but I haven't been able to replicate the bug either

Running with the same mods and faction currently, haven't had the issues, but I'm watching to see if large cycle counts affect it

[shell fiber]

Yeah that's a good idea

@valid salmon if you have your save can you send it to me by PM?

[valid salmon]

there was a screw press underneath it

[valid salmon]

trying to but I cant find the files. arent the save files in the documents folder and not in the steam folder of timberborn?

ah theres a separate folder for experimental my bad

[shell fiber]

Don't remember, but I think when you're on the save menu there's a button to go directly in the save folder

[valid salmon]

PS I have sent the save file to you on DM @shell fiber , feel free to check it out whenever

[vast anchor]

Anyone know if you can store the blueprints or fancy blueprints?

[storm prawn]

yep you can, gotta build the Scroll Racks inside the Library though

[vast anchor]

okay I have a library where is the option for that?

[tawdry bronze]

should be a sepperet building that is placed inside

[vast anchor]

Oh I found it. In the storage menu.

[vast anchor]

So how do you get Nenuphars?

[woeful sun]

Large Farmhouse can plant them

[storm prawn]

then gotta take 'em Lotuses apart in the Handycrafter

[vast anchor]

Oh

[storm prawn]

they also need ~2-deep waters

[vast anchor]

Thanks

[woeful sun]

(Update 4 or 5?)

nm, I assume update 5 based on your stream

https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/enUS_Waterbeavers.html is still only for Update 4, but may still be helpful

[woeful sun]

Meshy repo is at https://github.com/mechanistry/meshy

[valid salmon]

what is mechanistry exactly

[arctic olive]

It's the company of timberborn

[valid salmon]

oh, the link had something to do with meshes i didnt fully understand

something to do with creation of assets i thought

[arctic olive]

It is

But they made it, for timberborn. And released it for other games or maybe their own in the future I suppose

[valid salmon]

ah, TIL

[woeful sun]

I just add a producer / consumer toggle to https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/enUS_Waterbeavers.html. It should make it quicker to find producers.

It doesn't show initially, and then when doing a search it appears.

[empty brook]

I would be very curious if whatever is causing the bug can be found there. I got a save I wouldn't mind resurrecting

[shell fiber]

It work ! it works ! this is amazing ! thank you ! 😭

and this thing updated on its own too ? that's so cool 😀

and we don't need to prioritize + request in storages 😭

this is perfect 😘

[slate jacinth]

Nice! Btw if anyone here was interested in / had downloaded my pipe-lenght mod, it's now hidden as It was a tad too similar to Wireless Pumps (that Will get updated for U5 After It goes stable) ... Which i had forgotten even existed

[heavy lodge]

But, wireless pump mod do not add extra segments to pipes .

[slate jacinth]

Probably would once it's updated, don't see any reason not to now that it's built into the game

If anyone still wants to use mine, message me for the preview link ... or just look in my GitHub repo (link to It on my hauler fix mod)

[stone halo]

@shell fiber maybe you saw, but i pushed a Vertical power shaft fix. I forgot to change soms string stupid me

[shell fiber]

i didn't update it recently, did you break it ? 😮

[shell fiber]

i have different types of pumps for different length of pipes in this mod, so that would make one of them obsolete (althought the deeper one is slightly more efficient now)

[stone halo]

no, never worked, i forgot to change the faction in the spec

still had VerticalPowerShaft.Folktails

Added the previous name as backwards name, so it just updates the model and the building cost

As it is now more in line with how you make things cost

[shell fiber]

oh, neat !
so they cost scaffoldings ? 😁

[stone halo]

yea, we landed on 1 scaffolding i believe

[shell fiber]

i just saw ! neat !
actually i would also have kept 1 log too (so 1 scaffolding and one log) because there is still one log making the shaft itself 😅

but the scaffolding is what matters most

[shell fiber]

okay, i got into a small modding frenzy since my playthrough went far enough for me to see what what wrong in the late game

so i added a bunch of things :

• builders tower : 30 builders with no housing, but for now will cost 1 metal fixture every 3 hours (one fixture takes 1h to make)
• added 3 and 5 tall giant pillar (in addition to the 4-tall one)
• the clockwork farm blueprint is now made in the ENS
• the ENS science reciepe is now more interesting (1 brainsalt +food -> 13 science)
• the clockwork farms now cost 4x more science to unlock (get that ENS sciencing)
• Aquifer pumps were just insanely strong, so science cost is up, BP is removed
• Large aquifer pump will require one more advanced ressource i didn't decide of yet
• lots of old deprecated buildings will disappear soon, if not already
• i consider the fermentation barrel issue fixed thanks to @slate jacinth's fix
• fermentation house is smaller and a bit less powerful, that's still a good dam piece.
• started working on the abyss elevator and modules
• introducing sky exploration for balloons and ruin exploration for ruins
• balloons will cost sky exploration and abyss module will cost ruin exploration

[slate jacinth]

Regular/Deep Pumps would still be different depths, but yeah I didn't really think that one out well.

[slate jacinth]

Good Lord!
Btw, Nice to know i actually somehow fixed that issue ...

[radiant heart]

deprecated building disapear.. that sure gonna make a hot mess on my run, still have a mirrored lodge at the bottom of my badwater dam and a few old presses 😂

[empty brook]

I mean I like the straw growing to go as low as I need vs what wireless pump mod did. Do you know if that one will be lengthening the straws to match the increased depth?(I also forgot that mod existed )

[slate jacinth]

You could ask @arctic olive as it's their mod.

[radiant heart]

3rd gold bar acheived ! 🤣

[radiant heart]

looks like something breaks when more then one building gives a certain buff and beavers are not forced into it ( rooftop terasse and fire for exemple) they can't decide if they go to the basic one or the food buffet so they get nothing... working on 15hdays, got like 15-20 rooftop terraces all over the place and none get visited... or i missed some game mechanic to make it work?

[storm prawn]

@shell fiber so, is the workerless fermentation barrel coming back (out of deprecation & dev-mode) ?
btw is there any reason you didn't put your modified Ladder (RippedLadder in FactionSpec, but LadderWB in the game save ...) in the stairs/staircase category ?

[shell fiber]

I suspect something like that too yeah

[shell fiber]

It should be in the staircase submenu ? I probably just overlooked that

[native citrus]

I got annoyed at the "imperfect" English in some parts of the localization so I decided to write a Python script that fixes most of the issues, is there any interest in the output of it?
(Capitalize all names properly, remove spaces from weird places in descriptions, properly add full stops in descriptions)

[shell fiber]

Uuh 😥
Capitalise all names ? Isn't that in German ?

[native citrus]

Wrong: "Robotic controller blueprints"
Correct: "Robotic Controller Blueprints"

Base game:

Modded:

Descriptions always end with a full stop (.), names are always capitalized

[shell fiber]

Ooh, right

[native citrus]

It's just something that annoys me so I decided to fix it for myself, but I can share it if there's interest

I still need to test it though, to make sure I didn't break any localization

[shell fiber]

Hmm...

Well the best thing to do would be to fix the localisation file directly... Maybe I should try to make it a Google doc for multiple people to poke at it

[native citrus]

The script is fed a localization file and it spits out a corrected version

But a google doc/github would be great

[shell fiber]

Oh that seems convenient

I have no idea how git hub works

But I should get that probably someday

[native citrus]

As long as you have a github account its very easy to make a repository

Pretty much just toss files in there and it's done

[storm prawn]

I made this ToolSpecification for it, since it bothered me having it at the end of the pathing menu. Or is your ladder getting backported into the Ladder mod (as Ladder.WaterBeavers, that is) some time soon?

[shell fiber]

And anyone can modify stuff ?

[native citrus]

Not directly, you would submit "Pull Requests" that have the modifications, and someone with permissions needs to approve of them before it is changed

[radiant heart]

so just to try it, is it easy enough to remove those buffs from the buffet? ( like i could modify the file to check it out ?

[shell fiber]

maybe this is easier then
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1IQMGbN42c4e0GeSNgxNYFIvyLdicJIb3?usp=sharing

tell me if that works

[native citrus]

No edit rights by the looks of it

Also having public edit access is a bad idea

[shell fiber]

eh, that's fine

i have my own copy

i jsut made it so it's editable

[native citrus]

Yeah I can edit it now, but I cannot run the script through Google Sheets so I have to upload the modified file anyways (of course Sheets works for manual edits)

[shell fiber]

ahah

hmm...

[radiant heart]

talking bout sube-menu, can we get one for dynamite if you get a chance ? PLZ 🫣😇 getting crowded in there a bit 😉

can make it easy to abuse the depth and go even to 12+ for those "flat earthers" 🤣

[shell fiber]

i'll have to poke at dynamite to know what happens when they are more than 1x1

[shell fiber]

can you upload the fixed version ? that works too

[native citrus]

Sure, I'm just tinkering with it a bit more
Replacing some common misspellings (canon -> cannon, ressource -> resource)

[shell fiber]

oh, oopsie

[native citrus]

I get it, not your native language, but I might aswell automate it while I'm going over the entire file anyways 😅

[shell fiber]

for the record, i though only one capital letter was correct 😬

never bothered to check, which was foolish in hindsight

[native citrus]

Different languages have their own rules, it's the correct way in my native language as well

[radiant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-dark-kermit-gif-13921433

[shell fiber]

wonder if i could get the traductions done by stuffing them into chat GPT or something...🤔

[native citrus]

Probably

[native citrus]

But I think I could go over the lang file after I clean up most of it, there's maybe 100 or so lines I'd need to manually change which shouldn't take more than an hour

[shell fiber]

well there's more than a thousand line total, but if your program can extract the ones that need fixing that seems more practical

[shell fiber]

okay, i just put the custom ladder in t he right subgroup 👍

[vast anchor]

Are you using git at all? Anyone know what github's repo size limits are on the free tier?

[native citrus]

2 GB

Wait no

That's the file storage

Looks like 1GB is a "soft" limit and 100GB is a hard limit, and it doesn't seem to matter if you pay or not

[vast anchor]

What I could find git LFS has a 2 GB per file limit.
But what is the size limit of a repo

Where did you find that?

[native citrus]

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38768454/repository-size-limits-for-github-com

[vast anchor]

I think WB would fit. How large are the asset files?

Maybe you'd want to use git LFS - large file storage.

[native citrus]

The mod is 580MB, would easily fit

Actually nevermind, it's 1.25GB after uncompressed

But you don't have to have all of the files there, 99% of the filesize is a single file that you could put in LFS or just not have in github

[vast anchor]

Yeah I was looking at how big it was a few days ago. We're getting some sort of build artifact right? So locally @shell fiber probably has many files that get compiled/built into the icons_and_textures file. Probably wouldn't track that file at all.

[native citrus]

Here's the raw output from the script currently, haven't done a manual pass over it yet

[shell fiber]

I'm at work right now but I'll look at it 👍

[shell fiber]

Damn that's a lot 😥
There's a lot of rationalisation they could be done I think : very time I extract the fake I get a new duplicate of all textures, I try to always take the same one to avoid bloating the file but... Yeah

There is a crapton of icons too

[clever cosmos]

so for some reason im not allowed to update the 2 tall small storage mod to anything other than the live version

it crashes everytime

[vast anchor]

"extract the fake"

what?

[clever cosmos]

no matter what version i download

[vast anchor]

Are you doing it in the mod manger?

[clever cosmos]

yearh

[vast anchor]

You could do it manually

[shell fiber]

Try to install it manually maybe

[clever cosmos]

but is there a reason it crashes in the first place?

[shell fiber]

Unclear

[vast anchor]

When does it crash?

[clever cosmos]

when i click download xD

something about access to path is denied

[vast anchor]

Can you install any mods?

[clever cosmos]

yearhi think so, first time doing it in timberborn 😄

ok manually worked

for some weird reason

do the choo choo mod work with it?

[shell fiber]

Not yet

[vast anchor]

Not right now

[clever cosmos]

why does my mod manager say mod manager aint installed? xD

what about the ferris wheel or damn decoration? any of those working with this mod?

[vast anchor]

I don't think mod manager can see the manually installed mods.

[clever cosmos]

O.o

[native citrus]

Testing the output of the script, it definitely helps a lot to make it harder to spot which buildings are modded

[vast anchor]

So the waterbeaver's are a new faction, I think the way the game is setup any MOD developer would have to target the waterbeavers directly.

[clever cosmos]

hopefully people will contact eachother! this modding community is insanely talented!

time to die with whitepaw!

[vast anchor]

U5 or U4?

[clever cosmos]

u5

what is the last thing thats written?

[vast anchor]

This is still U4 but I've found it very helpful for "what makes that?"

https://darkskies.za.net/~norman/timbertrees/enUS_Waterbeavers.html

[clever cosmos]

thanks!

is there alot of differences between U5 and U4 with this clan?

[native citrus]

Make sure to check out the billboards!

[clever cosmos]

thanks!

what does the billboards even do?

[vast anchor]

lapantouflemagic has been very busy.
#1070709592176197642 message
There are lots of changes from last week

billboards tell you stuff

[clever cosmos]

so... any map thats recommended?

i dont know the maps that well xD

[vast anchor]

http://whitepaws.wikidot.com/early-game-tips

[clever cosmos]

cause dandelions was important i see, but they removedd that with U5

[vast anchor]

I forget the name of the map I'm on but its good. What are the first three map names?

[clever cosmos]

lakes plains and waterfalls

you on U5?

[vast anchor]

Yes, one second I'll just go check.

[clever cosmos]

i like terraces... i really dont know how dams work well enough otherwise xD

[vast anchor]

Argh I thought it was going to be easy to tell which map on on...

ha

I'm loading my save back up and started streaming in beaver-noises if anyone can tell.
I think it was one of the first few maps.

#1070709592176197642 message

[shell fiber]

This one is quite hard for a beginner

Generally my recommendation is waterfall or gentle canyon

Plains is quite easy too, but very flat so there's not a lot of opportunities to make a big dam

Oh but right !

Look for a custom map called "lemon canyon" I made it specifically for this mod

It should be easy enough

[clever cosmos]

how about terraces?

[vast anchor]

Just crashed timberborn trying to load my map 😦

[clever cosmos]

well this is my problem atm

why is this happening?P

xD

[vast anchor]

"not a problem"

[clever cosmos]

ehm... xD

what is it?

[vast anchor]

Yeah sorry I didn't include all the context. I wanted to show him how you built your dams.

I think the game is expecting 30 of something and the mod has many more.

[shell fiber]

I Don't remember this one in particular so I can't really say. Unless you have some screenshot

Oh do you mean terrace valley? This one is a nightmare 😬

It is workable but... Ugh 😩

[clever cosmos]

the map is literally named terraces xD

[shell fiber]

I'm not on the computer right now, can't see it 😅

[clever cosmos]

you recommend waterfalls?

[shell fiber]

Yeah

[empty brook]

Generic warning messages, nothing to worry about unless it's red text, which only appears when a crash occurs

[woeful sun]

How are you parsing the csv files? I noticed that a certain mod (can't remember which one right now) required slightly different csv dialect settings.

I finally got around to uploading my script to https://github.com/normanr/timbertrees if that helps at all.

(currently undocumented is that the export directories need to be directly under the main directory for the game / for each mod for the version detection to work correctly)

And I seem to remember having to delete / rename some unused waterbeaver prefab to avoid "duplicates", but had to re-export assets to get decompiled scripts and I don't remember doing that a second time so maybe it's not needed.

[woeful sun]

Did you try the producer / consumer toggle yet? I've only uploaded new enUS files with it (I noticed that I need to do a full run so all languages can pick it up).

[woeful sun]

btw, I'm open to better naming suggestions too. I was thinking maybe "Quick reference" (or some derivative thereof)?

[native citrus]

A simple csv reader worked just fine with the unix dialect, but I have only tried it on Water beavers

[woeful sun]

yea, I found the same

I think it was either ladders or staircases that tripped it up

The line is something like:

Key,Value, """some quote""
- author"

and the space between the comma and double quote caused issues

Note that the default dialect (if not given) is excel, not unix.

[shell fiber]

whelp, nope, 2x2 dynamite does not blow up a 2x2 hole

[woeful sun]

How did you make 2x2 dynamite?!?

Did it at least blow down 2 tiles?

[shell fiber]

take a dynamite prefabn make it 2x2

[woeful sun]

(assuming you started with the 2 deep dynamite)

Heh

[shell fiber]

ahah

i meant 2x2 in terms of horizontal coordinates

[woeful sun]

Yea

[shell fiber]

to see if i could make a mega dynamite that blows up a whole mountain

but alas, no

[woeful sun]

I bet the dynamite script doesn't handle that

[shell fiber]

yeah, only the pivot point or whatever that is is blown up

but it's not an actually important thing, just wanted to know

[woeful sun]

Now you have me imagining a 1x1x1 TNT that blows a 3x3x3 whole

[heavy lodge]

Why not, with plutonium 😛

[woeful sun]

Today I learned, apparently TNT is hard to make explode (it was first used as a yellow dye not explosive)

[woeful sun]

Because plutonium would blow up the entire map. I guess as a late game item it would be fine.

[shell fiber]

i just checked the map, and terraces is actually pretty hard.
main issue is that there is no bad water accessible easily and getting down is quite hard without science.

[clever cosmos]

and bad water is good cause why?

[shell fiber]

badwater is used to grow badshrooms brain stimulating mushrooms which are then consumed in the library to make science

if you ask why in a more philosophical manner, i just didn't want bad water and/or badtides to be a strictly negative thing

although badtides are almost strictly negative, they're only good on maps like terraces where you don't have access to bad water normally

[clever cosmos]

badtides sucks >:C they made my colony die xD how the heck do you even survive that?

[shell fiber]

well yeah they suck. first solution is to make stocks of water and food, second important thing is to make sure your beaver don't go swim in it.

[clever cosmos]

it kills all my plants tho

[shell fiber]

but if you manage to survive, the mechanic's lodge can research blueprints for the beaver washing machine which solves beaver contamination entirely

as for the plants, your broken kart will give you a bunch of explosives once destroyed (after you've build a new town center of course) that you can use to build a lido somewhere and get some safe space to grow crops

personnally i grow my trees in the area that gets contaminated because losing them is just a loss of time, but otherwise inconsequencial

and because dead trees are still harvestable

[clever cosmos]

gotta say i love your idea with resin being important early! 😄

[shell fiber]

for some reason my brain decided to poke at the tank shower and medical beds again, so:

• The tank shower is back and fonctionnal
• Med bed (injury) now makes a full heal in 7 days (nat. regen : 33.3 d) & consumes half fermented sake
• Med bed (disease) fully heals in 5.2 days (nat. regen : 20 d) & consumes bramble flowers
• Med bed (burns) fully heals in 10.4 days (nat. regen : 66.6 d) & consumes basic balm

severe variants will be in the same ballpark except they don't heal naturally and consume more advanced stuff

[shell fiber]

thanks ! realism is important, we need caulking material 🙂

[clever cosmos]

hopefully the devs will actually make a faction inspired by yours! 😄

[shell fiber]

that would be nice 🙂
if they want to integrate it, i'd of course be okay with that, but they would need to remake a few hundred assets because i... uuh... may or may not own some icons and 3D models 😅

[clever cosmos]

xD

[shell fiber]

New update posted !
i did not kill the deprecated stuff...yet

this is largely in preparation of U5 going live tomorrow, if someone wants to poke at it

[radiant heart]

give me a min got a thing to send and i'm on it 😉

btw thanks for the lotus farm having 2 receipes, really makes it easier to balance stuff out !

can we get a heads up one version prior to the removal of the deprecated stuff plz? will be easier to change them before they vanish but rather wait for the last minute, kinda lazy about it 😆

stuff vanishing is not friendly on the loading time also

really, top floor entry for the huge warm storage, what kind of maniac would put the entrance 8 blocks above ground? 🤣

[shell fiber]

meeh, i can leave them in i guess... i just thought i'd do some cleanup

[shell fiber]

well yeah but that allows to put it half in water and still be usable 😅

right i forgot to say i changed that 🤭

[radiant heart]

time for some more ladders i guess!

[shell fiber]

you monster

[radiant heart]

not like i have many options..

[shell fiber]

oopsie 😅

hope you like the new toolgroups 😉

[radiant heart]

i spy with my little eye a new baloon!

it's only a well-beeing thing ?

Yay dynamite grouped up 🎉

didn't you say construction tower was supossed to be tools? ( mistake or change of heart?)

not like i can build one anyway, still got way too much vacancies

not like i'm building much anyway, more into blasting place for bamboon plantations, still can't keep up on endothermic stuff

ground space really becoming an issue, gonna need to go on a large map for my next run 🤣

at that point i'd need tower houses without workers to fill in all jobs 😅

looks like my shell necklaces are not selling a lot, 340 in stock and only 26 beavers having them 🤔

gonna give a poke at those mine modules and see if they crash, wish me luck !

[shell fiber]

change of heart, i figured tools were far less critical than metal fixtures, so i went with that instead

[shell fiber]

nah the scout balloon scouts for locations to trade with (makes sky maps or whatever that should be called) and then you use the sky maps to make trade routes with other beaver factions.

basically i felt that unlocking new destinations with "science" was a bit off

[radiant heart]

that's cool

and the ruin exploration thing?

[shell fiber]

basically will be a similar mechanic, the main building makes exploration points, that will be used to build other modules. like you need to chart out an area of the mine to turn it into some storage space, or you need to find a spot that has methane/hydrogen to be able to extract it

[radiant heart]

and crash... think it's when i got my first hydrogen or exploration thing, not sure