Water Beaver Overhaul

[shell fiber]

Because the upgrade does nothing except being watertight 🙂
And I don't want to put it in dams because that's a bit too distant

But categories in this game are always a bit hard to decide

[radiant heart]

a sub-group "planting" with forester , nursery and upgrade? 🤔

[tall cobalt]

I feel like the upgrade should be nested at least as far in as the actual building itself

If the upgrade for a building is visible before the building itself, that just, idk, seems wrong?

(I'm still doing wiki work, that's why I'm pulling all this stuff out)

[radiant heart]

if there is a plan for diffrent upgrade type ( like the farm) it could be wrapped up togeter

An upgrade that gathers would be super cool, and give a reason to keep it around once the grapes/berries are planted

[tall cobalt]

Ooo, tree nursery gatherer upgrade... I can see it

Unrelatedly -

I always put the harvester's office far away from urban centers, in the middle of bramble or blueberry fields, so it has maximum gathering access. This means I never end up putting anything more than a roof or shrub on top, and thus the stackability is basically unnecessary. Just having s q u a r e in the middle of a field looks... not great? I think it deserves more greebles.

Maybe it could have like, a cutout for a pile of empty baskets or an awning or something. Or maybe it could have a thing sticking up out of the center, possibly with roof access, like the clinic model?

[radiant heart]

i see where you're going with that but it's "your" playstyle, i like to dump it in the river with access on the fields on both sides, if the sahpe is too weird to stack my pumps on it it's not ideal

[tall cobalt]

I suppose. Still, if this mod is really going for making all the shapes slightly inconvenient,

actually let me draw out a few things

[radiant heart]

i prefer the 2 first, the clinic one at least with the upgrade is less inconvenient

[tall cobalt]

Yeah, I am also #1 or #2, but I did just want to bring the extra one up in case there was ever call for a topper

Personally I like #1 more

it is just weird enough

[radiant heart]

yeah but the door on the 2 tall part not centered🤔

for No2 i'd drop the door in the cut-out part

[tall cobalt]

Door in the cut out part is already being done by the woodfelling lodge

[thorn dune]

not any more?

[shell fiber]

Not anymore yeah.
A small problem with your proposed designs is that segments that are not "blocky" should not be watertight, which also means that watertight buildings cannot be build on top.
And the other issue is that I can't make this kind of L-shaped building watertight, the properly that makes that just takes a floor plan and gives it all the same watertightness level. So you can make a building that is fully 1-tall watertight, fully 2-tall watertight but cannot do "some parts one tall, some parts two tall" 😥

Typically the top part of the clinic is not actually watertight, it is only made so by the medical ward that sits on top

one more constraint is that most watertight buildings are 2-deep, so it would need to be so too

Alternatively it could be a pit & ladder type house, but visually that's not very distinctive

a possibly slightly more interesting solution would be to make it kind of like a farmhouse variant, but with different stuff in the small frontyard

could use the new herbalist 3D model for that 🤔

[radiant heart]

Can't remember, apart from making the large farm watertight, does the upgrade do anything? never really got to building one. Might be more appealing if it had something there and options like the farmhouse ones

[thorn dune]

I haven't got it but it doesn't seem that useful to make them water tight, you need the exit of a farm to be near lots of farmland and if it's in a dam you've cut off half the farmland with a pile of water

[radiant heart]

usually i drop it on platforms in the middle of the river so it can access farmland on both sides, not sure if the watertight upgrade would go on it since the platforms under are not. If it goes tho it's gonna cause massive floods so not really interested anyway

[thorn dune]

exactly you need 360 empty space to keep all 8 workers busy

[tall cobalt]

Though in the end all I really want for Christmas is the bridgehouse

[radiant heart]

all i want is timber APi to be fixed and be able to play 😉

[tall cobalt]

F

[thorn dune]

it's ok we have base game. I just have to remember not to build houses in the river 😅

[radiant heart]

that's the hard part, i'm alway confused when i get back to other factions 🤣

[thorny pelican]

lol... I just observed the game crash as soon as the first sequoia grew up
I'm on 3.0.8 and the latest non-mod-breaking game version
would the error log be helpful?

[radiant heart]

could sure help lapan

[radiant heart]

How do you get back to the previous experimental version? tried but can't find how on steam

[still barn]

@shell fiber how to download this?

[thorny pelican]

idk, I got it from gog
but I remember a howto for steam when I googled it. something with Manage Installation or so...

[radiant heart]

you can get it like any other mod via mod manager or dowload it from mod.io

[radiant heart]

ok thanks i'll look that up

[still barn]

gog? good old games?

[radiant heart]

I see the install manager on steam, sadly i can't pick the version of experimental i play on, it's older versions 1-2-3, the live one 4 or the latest experimental. can't roll back from what i can see on the exp version

guess i'll go for a little vanilla IT run while that gets fixed, didn't do any runs with the other factions on U5 yet

[thorny pelican]

me neither... failed quite early two times, now I am (was...) on cycle 61 🤣

[radiant heart]

My WB run is on cycle 22 if if remember correctly, was about to get the ENS and mega drills going. Hope the save isn't broken once it is playable again

Ho wow, i don't recognize helix mountain at all, the U5 version is a brand new map, not like the others that they just dumped a badwater source somewhere

I can't find shit in those menu 🤣 got no clue what i'm doing

[empty brook]

I used mine to plug holes at the end of the map and block turns in the water. In the first case I'd just blast out next to the top or where I wanted the water to actually exit and place a real dam there. In the second case it never got above the 1 high for spadderdock/rice farming

[tall cobalt]

Is the Architect's lodge just not watertight at all then?

[radiant heart]

it is watertight, at least it's supposed to be

[radiant heart]

Yay it's fixed !

it's cute the little tree shaking animation when they gtting cut, is that new or i just never noticed it?

[heavy lodge]

Comes with the latest game update...

[radiant heart]

and crash...

from what i can try and understand in the console it looks like someting to do with plants but don't see any name directly to figure out wich one

[rancid temple]

Just started a new map with the updated timber api, so far so good longer load time but map started

[rancid temple]

I just have WB and the dependancies

[rancid temple]

and crash...

[shell fiber]

maybe there is something going on with the trees

[thorn dune]

brambles need a chopping animation?

[shell fiber]

well i'm looking at the 5.2 version trees but i don't see anything

[thorn dune]

mmm I guess it's just a object axis wobble then. good luck, I'm patiently playing base game for a while

[shell fiber]

maybe it's just a matter of updating the sript on my side and repackaging the mod

or could be lumberjack flag related

OOOOh the animation is so cute 😄

crahs

mousing over the giant sequoia causes immediate crash... 🤔

oooh

might be the sequoia yielding log messing things up

[rancid temple]

Helix map was updated, im doing a vanilla run too

[thorn dune]

it's a great map. should work well for wb too I think

[shell fiber]

getting an update out now

there's some temporary modifications

so that the plants don't crash

[tepid thistle]

Playing Water-Beaver U4 for the first time atm...
BESTEST! ... MOD! ... EVER!!11eleven
Many thanks for making this possible @shell fiber !
❤️ it 😄

(Even if Napoleon might not be the greatest Human ever 😉 ) xD

[tall cobalt]

Lapant is a frog, of course they'd love Napoleon

same reason why a pineapple is an "ananas"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/323274500760272896/1174790725590859896/50768929325-png__700.jpg?ex=6568e01f&is=65566b1f&hm=5a5a69fbba5a1951c0c6a262bf1ce42de23d677362ccdaca542c262a9093fa5b&

[frozen lake]

Its ananas is most of the world, except for English 😛

[tall cobalt]

exactly

[thorn dune]

spanish : pina (with an accent I can't type due to my tragic english origin)

[frozen lake]

Thats true 🙂

[onyx wind]

anyone else unable to connect building to power and get error when disabling powered buildings tried badwater pump and screwpress

[radiant heart]

i don't have sequoia yet still it crashed

[radiant heart]

lol, did the same yesterday, you went It or FT?

[radiant heart]

was ok yesterday, didn't update yet

[radiant heart]

Yooo, that drain house is super cool, wanted to try and make a turbine with a simmilar princilple!

Balloons now display as an alcool bottle in the UI 😂

[shell fiber]

Latest update ? It was crashing when hovering in the tools for sequoia, fern and decoshroom

[radiant heart]

just updated to the latest, let me check

can't unlock the craddle don't have the science yet but when hovering it didn't crash

but the sequoia chopper is gone

(power tab could use some sub-menu love, it's starts to get crowdy in there)

just getting the water wheels and the windmills togeter would be enough

[shell fiber]

Actually there is frequently multiple words for a given thing in French (possibly so as to avoid using the same word multiple times in close proximity in a text). So potato in French is indeed "Pomme de terre" but it is also simply called "patate" which is basically "potato" 😉

[shell fiber]

Temporary. Currently would crash

[radiant heart]

How about giving saltpeter to the medium mine too? small one would still be required for the NaCl but with the way multiple dynamite works, i'm at 3 smalls just for saltpeter... feels a bit dumb

(and barely getting enough)

[radiant heart]

chaos mode is starting a bit, those drunkies go for a sip of sake instead of filling up with water 🤦‍♂️

BTW the light green is ok for special deaths, easy to read 👍

[shell fiber]

That's what you get for trying to flatten the map 😅

[radiant heart]

just trying to make a nice trench for power

need to move that badwater to acces the only scrap left on the map, mega drills not up yet

[shell fiber]

Oh nice 😊
Well I guess such a large excavation project should take quite a while 😉

[radiant heart]

just finished!

took 6-7 cycles

[shell fiber]

So no crash in the latest version ?

[radiant heart]

not yet

not sure why that swapped but ...

[shell fiber]

Don't remember doing that

Oh maybe I did

I see

[radiant heart]

it's the only one that changed, others are ok

[shell fiber]

I think I reworked that item to be referred on the files as strong alcohol at the same time I made the distillation recipes

Just alcool sometimes was unclear

[radiant heart]

at least didn't make alcool storage look like a balloon 🤣

[radiant heart]

is it possible kimchy broke? feels like nothing been brought in the barrels and only barrels are prioritized by haulers

gonna whatch it a bit and if it doesn't move gonna mash a 99x see if something happens

deleted the barrels and rebuilt, solved the issue, guess something happenned in the update 🤷‍♂️

alright, let's turn this into a water canon paradise! Would be nice to have some sort of indication about the output of water tho.

Like 1 canon shooting in a zone is equal to ? water source or something ( considering a source at 1 power)

[tall cobalt]

There's not that much left of the wiki to deal with

I'm not going to start updating the wiki to 3.0 until things settle down on that front though

They did put dandelions back in, I believe? Which means your whole medicine chain is back on

So I need to figure out if I care enough to document the clinics and stuff

considering how you're likely to change them

[shell fiber]

they move 0.3 m3 /s (taking one strength one block as 1 m3/s)

[shell fiber]

yep, i had to remove it again 😅

yeah don't worry about the clinics etc for the time being

[shell fiber]

i'm going to put the gristmill in the lightindustry tab, and the wine cellar in the food tab

makes more sense

what was there that really needed my attention ?

maybe subgroups for shafts etc ?

the hospital, injuries and so on ?

i have the feeling that there is a couple other urgent stuff i'm forgetting

[onyx wind]

worked out the 1 connection spot for badwater pump and screwpress no connection indicator but im still crashing when i pause badwater pump with pipe upgrade

[shell fiber]

hmm... that's a weird one

[rancid temple]

good morning

[shell fiber]

good evening !

oh just reacting to a comment on disturbedZ's channel

i'm pretty sure i'm going to remove the sequoia cradle

its original reason to be is long gone

might make a small park or something around the sequoia

or maybe a sequoia ladder 🤔

now the first 9 levels should be able to have side platforms stuck ot it

not actually tried though

might be ugly if you don't wait for the sequoia to grow up ofc

but that's not my problem

[shell fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/banana-minions-despicable-me-gif-19971905

[radiant heart]

subgroups for water wheels and windmills would be nice

[radiant heart]

severe injuries, getting to a lot of useless eaters not that i'm unlocking the later stuff

[radiant heart]

how about having lemons too with the nursery? the lemonade stand is sool, too bad can't use it if there are not native lemon trees on the map

[shell fiber]

didn't i already do that ? 🤔

[radiant heart]

the lemons or the subgroups?

[shell fiber]

oh, no that was the baobab being plantable

[radiant heart]

or , other idea, those crops/trees that are in your more crops mod could be locked behing the nursery upgrade maybe

[shell fiber]

isn't there already a mod that goes subgroups for shafts ? like battery's shaft bridges thing

[radiant heart]

or a 3rd planter ENs locked

[shell fiber]

no need to wrap the wheels if the shafts are

[radiant heart]

the extra shafts with tunnels and bridges goup some of those but it's not U5 ready yet

battery_smooth doesn't have time to fix it atm

flywheels is it's onw subgroup but if i recall correctly it's not that mod that groups up the shafts

[shell fiber]

oh i see

[radiant heart]

just wheels and mills would be enough to make it easier on the eye

[shell fiber]

yeah okay

let me finish my banana greenhouse 🙂

which as you can guess was Absolute priority 😅

[radiant heart]

👀

preview of that greenhouse? 🥰

[shell fiber]

finished building, now the difficult part might be to force the banana trees to be only in there

[radiant heart]

can't it be the same thing that forced the sequoia in the craddle?

[shell fiber]

yeah but it was still whacky

the banana trees are 1x1 though, should be easier

[radiant heart]

BTW banana juice is super good 😉

one of my favorite

[shell fiber]

eheh ! first try !

not need to make the walls solid

[radiant heart]

awesome, now i need to get that high temps foundry going i guess

[shell fiber]

but still walkable inside

ahah yeah

my rule of thumb was 2 glass panes per actual square or something ?

[radiant heart]

was held back a bit with the kimchy broken on update, still need the science for ENS

[radiant heart]

might be overdoing it but I see like 9 per wall, 4 for the square on top and 4 per angle trapeze so 56~ish

[shell fiber]

yeah seems about right

oh the square on top is 3x3

so +9

ah, yeah it's 1/m²

[radiant heart]

so 61

[shell fiber]

uh, yes

but if we want to be picky, the door aperture and the trapeze corners would likely be lost

[radiant heart]

hope those bananas are worth it

[shell fiber]

right now they have the highest yield

[radiant heart]

i didn't count the doors for the 9 per wall and counted half a tile for the trapeze corners, didn't take into account the angle tho that makes it a bit bigger

[shell fiber]

1.25/day-m²

[shell fiber]

han that's fine

let's pretend they just toss the waste glass back in the furnace

[radiant heart]

would have to divide those 16 for trapezes by suqreroot(2)/2 or something like that, trigo is a bit far

[shell fiber]

well the trapeze is at a 34°angle

not 45

[radiant heart]

let's say 30deg to make it simple maths so the 16 is actually 24

so 69 glass, Nice!

🤣

[shell fiber]

aaah, nooo

RCE will make too many jokes

[radiant heart]

but every JC viewer would have a blast with that

banana shack needing 69 glass, feels appropriate

[shell fiber]

nah, 61 is good enough

i'm wondering if i should make seedy bananas to make oil 🤔

[radiant heart]

pumpkin seeds can make oil too 😉 could sure help a ton, might make it too easy tho

[shell fiber]

not pumpkins

because it would require a variant

one crop can't make two things

so i can have banana bananas

and seed bananas

which is fine because wild bananas are actually full of seeds

[radiant heart]

what if pumpkins were like pines/brambles, can "gather" the seeds or "harvest" the pumpkins

[shell fiber]

well you can, but then they need to be prepared

people will say that's it's poinltess complexity

[radiant heart]

prep? can't just press it?

[shell fiber]

pumpkins ?

[radiant heart]

yeah, well the seeds

[shell fiber]

yeah but to get both pumpkin flesh and seeds, you need to get first a pumpkin item, then have it chopped up in seeds and pumkin slices

[radiant heart]

ok, gotcha

[shell fiber]

which is tedious

i only do it for brambles because the game really leaves me no choice

[radiant heart]

i know i do it every halloween, make pumpkin stew and bake the seeds

[shell fiber]

seems nice 😊

but maybe so-so for a game

[radiant heart]

agreed, was just tossing it out there

[shell fiber]

now that would be really neat

would be to make the megaplatform stack on the greenhouse

[radiant heart]

but isn't it too high? can't recall if clockwork is 2 or 3 high

[shell fiber]

i tried to do the same

it's a bit tight though

but i can probably make it fit one level higher

strictly speaking the megaplatform doesn't rest on the ground but on the building under it

[radiant heart]

idk, feels strange blocking the light in a greenhouse

[shell fiber]

that's why there is lights under the megaplatform 😅

[radiant heart]

forgot a bout that 😆

[shell fiber]

success !

[radiant heart]

is it a second one or the clockwork gonna have a gap?

[shell fiber]

not too bad at night

[shell fiber]

it's the same

what needed adjusting was the buidling under it and the occupancy of the plants

[radiant heart]

tought it was a tighter fit on the clockwer farm 🤔

been over a month so might be missremembering

[shell fiber]

i didn't change it

[radiant heart]

might just be an illusion, looks taller on the greenhouse

[shell fiber]

but i wanted something that actually needs to be on the ground AND that could carry clockwork farms 🙂

that's why i went with 5x5

[radiant heart]

will be funny to have the greenhouse in a 5x5 hole all the way down to the bottom of the map 🤣

[shell fiber]

hmm... what is wrong with the planting system

everytime you load the game the field is removed 🤔

[radiant heart]

they pulling a "kimchy" on you 😆

have to check when i reload later if kimchy breaks again

hope it was only the update not the loading that jams the barrel

[shell fiber]

i would assume so

no reason for it to break otherwise

[radiant heart]

will see this evening

[shell fiber]

well everything seems to be in order

i'll keep modding tomorrow and post an update i think

gN !

[radiant heart]

GN

[raven heart]

Been finally trying this mod out, the limiting on science income makes things feel very linear in the progression(and restrictive) and it’s a bit awkward to try and figure out compared to the other factions

[radiant heart]

first run is always a bit messy, yes science is restrictive but you still get to pick what you want first

need to see it as a brand new game, makes it a bit easier

[raven heart]

Fair enough, it’s also the sorta faction that’d require several maps to be tweaked so it functions properly on them

[radiant heart]

a lot of little tweaks were made to the faction actually to have it playable on most maps ( sure some are gonna be way harder then others)

[raven heart]

Because it doesn’t have a lot of the options for badwater mitigation the others do and needs flat 2-high terrain

To dig into the wall of

[radiant heart]

one of the tweeks was to get more dynamite in the kart when you destroy it to actually be able to make mines even if the map only has 1high clifs

( you playing on U4 or U5 of the game?)

[raven heart]

U5

[radiant heart]

start is a bit broken on U5 with the irrigation towers gone

[radiant heart]

And sadly reloading breaks the kimchy again, at least barrels that were not full and running just won't fill up...

Guess barrel cleaning needs to be back in for a bit

[radiant heart]

even pausing the game messed up the kimchy ... not just pause but goint to menu and minimizing the window... no idea wtf is happening, looks like sake too something is up with the barrels

[radiant heart]

On another note :

[radiant heart]

it's actually set as it's eating power not producing it

thuink i got it wrong, it's not a turbine but a control valve?

[raven heart]

To an extent I suppose though it still seems like you’re forced into a general line to deal with badtides and progress a lot more rigidly than the other factions

It’s cool how much work has gone into it at any rate

Differences just make it feel extremely map dependent in ways that aren’t shared by the other two

[raven heart]

Makes sense, guessing they were there to help you not need to do the usual floodgate-stops-badtide plays?

[radiant heart]

they were there for a long time, since dams are not easy to get, it gave the possibility to keep an irrigated field even if the rivers ran dry

[raven heart]

Makes sense

[radiant heart]

if you want to play it the intended way sure map plays a huge part of it but if you just toss lodges in the river like if they were levees it doesn't change that much

[raven heart]

Lotta maps use 1-2 wide rivers and many expect you to have floodgates so badtides don’t wreck you too heavily early on

Or water dump levees

[radiant heart]

the decontamination is way faster with the WB tho

[raven heart]

Yeah but 100% of your fields of crops die

Usually

[radiant heart]

not if you water-canon some clean water far enough

having those sooner is a nice way to go around the lack of irrigation towers

Biggest complain atm is that you get rushed into destroying the kart since there is no real irrigation available prior to it but it's not a mod thing, it's the game removing the irrigation towers that broke that so can't hold it against lapan

[raven heart]

Fair enough, though I will note that the delayed and more complicated science(unless I’m missing a method that isn’t just the library) makes progression feel a lot more stilted and delayed

Less consistently growing

You get a lot of slightly worse than average tools up front but then have to go quite a bit until you can start getting more

[radiant heart]

once the library is up it's not a big deal to get science, just have to be carefull to not over do it and starve your beavers

[raven heart]

Doesn’t too much change my statement though of it feeling like a huge number of tools spiked up front but a much longer delay on getting the rest

As opposed to consistent growth

[radiant heart]

Once you get a hang of it consistent growth is there. It's tricky tho for sure

gotta admit it took me 3-4 runs

[radiant heart]

Wait a minute, alchi doesn't make methane anymore ? 🤔

guess it's time to destroy and rebuild those barrels

not gonna bother with the sake ones, got a huge alcool reserve, should be enough to unlock the wine cellar

Spagetti party! gonna have a "fun" time cleaning that up when i unlock all the shafts

Something clearly happenned to the barrels, now they are not even prioritized by haulers yet and getting filled up

(after rebulding them)

[shell fiber]

i'll see if there is something i can do about those

[radiant heart]

hope it can get fixed 🤞

Any special reason methane is not in the alchi anymore?

[radiant heart]

lol some idiot forgot to plug one of the drills 😆

[shell fiber]

i didn't think it was really at its place here

[radiant heart]

any plans on having it made somewhere else or it's gonna be a barrel exclusive like kimchi?

[shell fiber]

nah i'll probably make a larger barrel at some point, i think in mid-late game having a bazillion barrels is going to cause trouble anyway, too many place to think about for the haulers

[radiant heart]

maybe that's the little lag i get 2-3 times a day, tought it was housing optimized tho

got at least 60 barrels atm

lol, that was a jumpscare, rock stalled right as I was going over and looking in that direction 🤣

[shell fiber]

it is restrictive, but if you ask me that's the point. of course i assume different people might feel differently about it, but as far as i'm concerned, the base game science system where you build a few inventors and then forget them until the next eclipse is so boring you could remove it entirely the game would be barely affected.

here the point is to permanently keep people a bit on edge, you might want to slow down the library during droughts and send your beavers to the mine, and back in the wet season you sent them back to reading. sometimes you have to adjust your production for more sunflowers, sometimes you have to find a new berry patch and so on.

as for linearity, there is a set progression path of course, but there is still a lot of choice for which direction you want to go for. are you going to unlock better storage asap, or are you going to unlock the power shafts ? or better dams ? will you research blueprints for industrial stuff or try to head straight for the tree nursery ? i think there is plenty of choices

[radiant heart]

(can remove the "broken animation" note from the treb, it works)

[shell fiber]

oh by the way, this is not a turbine making power, it consumes it to move water across it

[radiant heart]

yeah, learned it the hard way killed a whole berry field that got flooded because i din't pay attention 😅 good thing i took the habbit of making back up saves prior to testing your next crazy idea !

gotta admit i was a tad disapointed, had a real cool set up for it beeing turbines

[shell fiber]

changed the text to "Can pump up to 3 m³/s of liquid per second at full power."

[radiant heart]

would it be that hard to make a turbine version from it?

[shell fiber]

if i can i have to say it would be neat to make a power wheel based on this model

probably require custom code to be honest

[radiant heart]

got the turbine idea on my helix run, ended up flodding a large water wheel by narrowing too much the waterway

[radiant heart]

🤔 tought you could just reverse the way it works, create power instead of consuming with the water going across

[shell fiber]

i wouldn't assume negative power consumption to work, but could try i guess

[radiant heart]

it's kinda "reskined waterwheel"

Happy 300 pop to PinkerTown XV 🎉

[radiant heart]

the ruin flooded is looking scary 😅

[radiant heart]

The School cliff is happening

almost 20 cycles faster then my previous run!

[shell fiber]

actually i was thinking about doing something like a flooded mine based on the medium mine

[radiant heart]

that could be cool, what would be in there?

[shell fiber]

i have no idea 😅

OOOh

[radiant heart]

on another topic, not sure what is causing that lag 2-3 times a day, do you have that too? or i'm just asking too much of my Pc and it's about to blow up

[shell fiber]

just thought about something

[radiant heart]

tell me more!

[shell fiber]

autosave ?

i'm thinking i could set the ruin to act as a sinkhole

[radiant heart]

nope, autosave is one but i got one that is recurent, my best guess is optimized housing

[shell fiber]

and have the outer ring watertight

(outer ring of the elevator)

and have some stuff that you can only get by flooding the mine

[radiant heart]

sure woulb be nice if the elevator was watertigh, more and more map makers like to toss the ruins in the water somewhere

Double treb action is looking real nice!

looking around and enjoying the visual stuff while School cliff is building up! guess with the time it will take to build up gonna be closer to 10-15 cycles faster then previous run then 20

[radiant heart]

a drowned canari? 😆 <

just to be sure, nursing liscence is useless atm, right?

[shell fiber]

uuuh

maybe ? 😅

i'll probably make the ENS a district center too, i really want to dis-incentivise building multiple

but i'll make the reciepes faster

[radiant heart]

forcing another district... you're not making something cool, specially for smaller maps

i get the idea of kinda forcing not building many but... if you really want to force only one just make another core item in the kart that can't be produced and only used for that 🤷‍♂️

[empty brook]

You never got to see my screenshots from my WB run, I got over 1200 beavers running around. Maybe one of the upgrades to barrels could be they have bigger versions, say a 2x2, then make it take and make more to do the fermenting process. Cuz I'll confirm I had an absolute ton of fermentation barrels

[shell fiber]

that's a big colony

did you cover plains entriely ?

i think at this point trains are in order

[radiant heart]

at 600beavers fps starts to drop a tad too much for my liking

[shell fiber]

that's a pretty good idea too

but i was thinking more like "you can raze the old new district center and connect the ENS"

[radiant heart]

if you go that way maybe simplify the ENS a bit by simply making bachelor degrees that could be used for any of the buildings

[radiant heart]

wait wait wait, you wanna make ppl delete housing space, what happenned to you?

[shell fiber]

tbh i don't understand why people just prefer to build 3 of something insanely expensive and then have it being sitting here doing nothing rather than just let diplomas get done slowly

[radiant heart]

"build more" ...

[shell fiber]

it's like building 5 architects at once and researching all blueprints at the same time

[empty brook]

It was craters & yes

[shell fiber]

well yes but still

[empty brook]

Also I like having multiples of things

[radiant heart]

not really because at the point of the architect you don't really have the production to make 5 BPs at once, at the point of the ENS it's doable to have them all run at once

[empty brook]

Especially things that make faster versions of scaffolds and gears and frankly any of the other top tier degrees

[shell fiber]

🤔

The ens doesn't make scaffolding and gears anymore

[radiant heart]

and with expensive stuff on science having more then one to make science faster is not that bad if you can back it up with the food production

[empty brook]

My point being the more a building makes, the mod incentive I have to have extra copies of a building

[shell fiber]

oh, yeah that's normal

[empty brook]

For me the point is not to be micromanagey about it

[shell fiber]

but for buildings that have a finite number of things to build 🤔

[empty brook]

Define "finite" to a crazy person?

I made 200 compact library sets. Y? Cuz I wanted to

[radiant heart]

there is no "finite thing" could need more degrees and it produces science... with those 10-12k science locked things having a bunch producing is nice

[shell fiber]

well diplomas, you won't need 300 of them so once you've made a dozen agronomist, 3 metallurgists etc you're mostly done with the ENS

maybe i just need to play more with it, i keep restarting my runs before i reach that point

[empty brook]

Unless I wanna go again and add more 🤣

[shell fiber]

because i want to test new stuff

so basically the point is that you want to be able to research all different diplomas at once, correct ?

[empty brook]

Ya it's apparent in the "end game" portion of the WB they didn't seem to have much play testing on that side of things

[shell fiber]

in that case the solution is somewhat easy to theorize

[radiant heart]

make many at once also, the wine cellar you need at least 15-20 of those

[empty brook]

I like having one ready to go if I decide to build one

[radiant heart]

high temp foundry 3 or 4 might be enough

would have to recheck the balloon maths

[empty brook]

Keeping up with Berry juice, dandelion tea and spicy sodas was fun, 1/3 of craters was blueberries

[shell fiber]

i think the easiest solution would be rather than a monolithic building, have a modular thing where you can have a biology department, a metallurgy department etc

[radiant heart]

the acutal model could easyly turn to that i suppose, you kinda have the central peice ( let's say making science) and the 4 "corner buildings" for the departments

[shell fiber]

oh and unrelated but i don't think i can let the ladder be buildable as a platform

because then it is very easy to crush the greenhouse which can cause catastrophic destruction

[empty brook]

Unrelated but the person whom abuses them most is in chat?

[radiant heart]

you mean to block the "ladder" part

[shell fiber]

do you ?

but you're not on U5 right ?

[shell fiber]

well i want the backside to be blocked yes

that has always been intended

[radiant heart]

i mean beeing placable on path while blocking the "back" part

[shell fiber]

plus it's tobbert stuff, i don't want to edit it uncesessarily

[shell fiber]

yeah basically that's impossible if it is placable like a platform

so you would have to destroy the path to place it

but then it becomes the path

[radiant heart]

too bad, got used to the path destroy mess anyway. rather be kinda logic with the back blocked

[shell fiber]

but i think i found a way to prevent abusing it as an infinitely stackable platform

[empty brook]

Not currently

[shell fiber]

so no worries, functionnality will be largely unchanged

[radiant heart]

kinda need that for a massive clockwork farm tower tho

[empty brook]

I believe this to be the first step to making a better mouse

[shell fiber]

but the cost will be far higher though 😇
we wouldn't want those curly stairs to become irrelevant 😉

[shell fiber]

mouse ?

[radiant heart]

more then it ctually is on U5?

[shell fiber]

oh you can still stack it on itself

[empty brook]

Build better mouse traps, you get smarter mice

[shell fiber]

but no placing windmill on top

[shell fiber]

oh ahah 😅

[radiant heart]

tought that was already fixed

[shell fiber]

it was but the consequence of how i did was that you could walk through the ladder

[radiant heart]

i see

still didn't unlock ladders on that run actually as a personnal challenge

guess it's gonna happen when i start my clockwork tower

[empty brook]

Not something I did lol

Gravity batteries, yes, windmills no

Also on the subject of having multiples of buildings, anything that makes a core resource I'm gonna be completely unreasonable with

[radiant heart]

got a terraforming project for the batteries

[empty brook]

Planks, gears, (scaffolding & scrap in this mod,) and metal blocks

If you're running outta any of these things to over build with, you gotta reinforce production cuz screw waiting. Lives are on the line

Honestly my playthrough is a merry go round of reinforce food to reinforce the population, reinforce the population to produce more resources faster, to reinforce building, to reinforce food

[radiant heart]

On another topic, any texture comming up for strong alcohol storage? those tanks look empty it's bugging me a bit 😆

i get it it's a clear liquid but some sort of visual indication if the tank is not empty would be nice

[empty brook]

So like a glimmer

?

[radiant heart]

just a shine or something yeah

[tall cobalt]

Yes that is the intended play loop

[shell fiber]

i don't know how to do that

the game really doesn't handle transparency well

[radiant heart]

maybe something in the maplesyrup texture, it has that shine on top

[shell fiber]

honestly zero understanding of how it works

and not really a priority to be honest

i think i should be playtesting a bit more

[tall cobalt]

U5 is still getting very basic balance changes because like, for example, dandelions were gone and then are now back so whether medicine even still works at all is a big question, and we don't have irrigation towers at the moment but perhaps begging the TimberAPI people can get us those scripts again

[radiant heart]

maybe just toss in a color for now?

[tall cobalt]

Use the maple syrup texture for now maybe

[radiant heart]

but change the orange to white, with the color of the barrel it would be kinda like transparent but with some visual cue for the tank not beeing empty. Orange strong alcohol, never heard of that

[tall cobalt]

IDK I've seen barrel-aged stuff having an amber tint but also I am not an alcohol drinker so I can't say for certain

[radiant heart]

true, maple syrup texture then, easy peasy !

One ENS up, not waiting for the other 2, getting late here, gonna call it a day

GN! later 👋

[shell fiber]

don't i already use maple syrup texture for something though ?

i guess not...

[radiant heart]

nope, at least not that i can recall

badwater is close to it but darker

[shell fiber]

i'll check

i've been poking at the greenhouse a lot this morning

trying to make it better, but eventually reverted to yesterday

there is some sub-optimal stuff, for example if you don't want beaver walking through glass panes, you need to make it a path i think

[shell fiber]

yet one more weird thing : greenhouses cannot touch each other

probably have to do with the hitboxes

maybe ?

anyway

let's playtest a bit

aaah, shit

they can plant the bananas even when the greenhouse is not finished

oh well, let's call it being proactive

[shell fiber]

i guess i'll give each barrel a worker

although that is very inefficient, you can just deprioritize the damn thing

i think they still work, but the "prioritize building" button seem to not have much effect

[shell fiber]

ah, nah, everything seems to be working fine with the changes i made

not sure though

well shit, crash$

[shell fiber]

okay, this time it's good

[rancid temple]

new upload today? andgood morining

morning even, havent had coffee yet

[shell fiber]

good morning !

about to start playtesting

kind of want to try that new helix mountain

(but not on hard mode like some weirdos)

😉😉

i'm looking at a video on The CRUST and hot damn this game looks fantastic

seems like a pretty neat mix of factorio, surviving mars and dwarf fortress

[rancid temple]

ild lump in captian of industry which is a closer fit than factorio

[shell fiber]

ah, didn't play this one yet

i might be mixing with an other game but i heard it was rather shallow

[rancid temple]

its good. not great, big tech tree, low replay value

[shell fiber]

okay, let's get streaming

[rancid temple]

once you gt the extended build chain set its just scale.....

[shell fiber]

should i make tools more expensive ? feels like they are quite cheap at the moment

[rancid temple]

I dont find tool production is at all something i wait for, a bit of a hike would be good

[rancid temple]

Did the kimchi barrels get sorted out? they are are acting up on reload here

[shell fiber]

yeah redneck told me

but i did't upload anything yet

just got a crash

[shell fiber]

okay, let's upload that

[rancid temple]

hmm 3.0.10 is availible direct download from mod.io but not yet in mod manager, does it take a while to populate?

[thorn dune]

the crust demo in the steam fest played two giant unskippable videos back to back when I started a game so I quit out and uninstalled 😄

[rancid temple]

the update download keeps stalling at 248mb?

[shell fiber]

🤔

[rancid temple]

its going again... think it was a hickup at mod io

[shell fiber]

works fine for me

[shell fiber]

hmm... something keeps bugging me about the bad water

because it is possible to seriously limit the number getting contaminated, we always feel like we should do that, which means just getting bad water immediately turns into some huge project

which delays getting science a lot

[rancid temple]

on some maps 50% of the build time is just badwater provisioning (from start)

[shell fiber]

yeah i just felt that i had to do it right

bulding this off-center mess

where half of the buildings are actually not usefull

i want something much faster

[rancid temple]

i dont generally use buildings as dams in flowing water due to bad tides contamination

[shell fiber]

it gets flushed quite fast actually

that's not a problem

[rancid temple]

having the high power shaft unlocked will make getting bad water so much easier than my last run

[raven heart]

I can understand the problems with the standard system of set and forget inventor until you get your even more set and forget big science option, but I feel like noticeably delaying science income while giving you so many tools off-rip still removes a lot of that feeling of progression that comes from incremental unlocks that the main factions use. I also think u5 is probably shifting my perception a fair bit compared to u4 since a lot more pressure is put into place to not get wrecked by badwater

[thorn dune]

maybe you have them backwards at the moment, might work better if normal water pumps needed water to flow on top and bad water pumped up to safety like the base game/ wb current drinking water pumps

could easily lock out some maps from wb though

[shell fiber]

i'm working on an amazing, super-high-tech bad water pump

behold

[shell fiber]

much much better

also the beaver jail has now its entrance on the ground floor

[shell fiber]

Also something that is not obvious : all watertight building block irrigation and pollution from the same height

so this along with the farmhouses should protect the berries from pollution

[shell fiber]

Okay, uploaded a new version

probably would strongly affect how easy it is to unlock science, if someone starts a new game (having played other versions before) i'd like to know how you feel about it ! 😊

[rancid temple]

ill give it a go

[faint stirrup]

I know its only temporary but marking the sequoia for cutting by number wood cutters crashes the game still for anyone planning to try it

[rancid temple]

what version you on?

current is 3.0.11

[faint stirrup]

3.0.10 unless its been patched today?

Will upgrade and see whats changed

Can confirm, still crashes on 3.0.11

[rancid temple]

Research progression made easier, bad water bucket building, bad water pump locked

Im going by the notes, still downloading for my other machine

[faint stirrup]

Minor request although i'm sure i'm the only one to ask for it, any chance of getting a better recipie for the screwpress axles later on? I have i have 12 gnawing posts making them and its struggling to keep up

[radiant heart]

was the same with the sequoia craddle

[radiant heart]

didn't try the new one on hard... yet

[radiant heart]

once you got the washing machine and antidote having beavers walk/swim into badwater is a non-issue, decontamination is way more effective for the WB

[radiant heart]

gee wizz, how many presses are you running ? and how many beavers?

[faint stirrup]

1 press but i'm attempting to mechanise as much as possible so i'm running 2 large aquifer pumps, they use 1.5 axles per day to run (each)

[radiant heart]

i see, i never use those so... yeah that might be why i don't have screws issues

[faint stirrup]

I'm struggling to keep water working properly without them to be honest. Between 600 and 800 beavers, i just never have enough water

[radiant heart]

biggest issue often is tanks too far from pumps, reduces efficiency a lot

[faint stirrup]

43 water pumps running constantly plus 2 of those and i only just keep up

[radiant heart]

is it just pumps or pumps and upgrades?

[faint stirrup]

28 pumps, 15 upgrades

They all have at least 2 large underground storage within 20 blocks of them and at least 2 of the 3 wide houses for haulers by them

I do think i'm at the point of a death spiral now though and need to let it die and settle. Too many hungry/thirsty beavers so they can't produce enough due to debuffs now

[radiant heart]

when you looks at the "productivity" on the pumps what's the average?

[radiant heart]

yeah, once you enter "chaos mode" it's hard to get out with that many beavers

[faint stirrup]

Stupidly low now as they have been just on the edge of death for too long now

[radiant heart]

my general tule of thumb is undeer 80% tanks are too far or need more haulers( if storages are not full)

[faint stirrup]

That's my kind of distances, right now that one pump is at 9% 😂

[radiant heart]

but you entered chaos mode...

[faint stirrup]

Yep

[radiant heart]

pause everything but food and pumps, sometimes helped me save it

and only basic food,

like juices and other drinks taking water is not helping you atm

[faint stirrup]

Now i'm waiting on the death cycle so i can hopefully come back. Food should hopefully self sort if they die from the hydroponics so i should be fine as long as they keep running and the aquifiers keep going

I have 11 hydroponics running 24/7 for food. I'm aiming to have food fully from hydroponics and water the same if possible

[radiant heart]

hydroponic doesn't make all types of food, so if you want it all can't only rely on mecha production

[faint stirrup]

Thats true. For now their just doing the basic cabbage, sunflower seeds and peas. If theyc na cover that, the farmers can do the rest for extra foods but i want enough basic to self sustain

[radiant heart]

Megastructural degree also useless atm? 🤔

Plus side of barrels having a worker, they now show up in the workplace tab and it's much easier to manage how many are doing what

[radiant heart]

not sure what happennned, updated to latest version, did nothing but wait for ENS to build up but all of my food kinda vanished, was rocking a steady 1,5k~ish prior to updating 🤔

did food need for beavers get modified?

or some receipes changed producing time?

[radiant heart]

like I was stable prior to updating and now i'm dying of hunger left and right, lost half my colony 😅

• 2/3 now

[faint stirrup]

Not sure whats changed with this one, i'm also having trouble with jails not working at all, they just never go in it at all. Fresh map as well so no old models etc.

And there goes 50 beavers and the entire colony to contamination that they refused to cure

[radiant heart]

i deleted the jail asap, dumb beavers go in there instead of the washing machine

[faint stirrup]

I'm nowhere near the washing machine right now

[radiant heart]

can you make antidote?

[faint stirrup]

They have the brain stimulating mushrooms but thats it. They wont actually go into the jail is the issue, cycle 14 and its never once had a visitor.
Wonder if something is broken with the new entrance now its move. For now i just cheated back in 20 beavers when they all died and have handled the bad tides better so they rarely get contaminated at all as a work around
Also, is anyone aware if the new dam drain house is safe to use? I have a plan...

[radiant heart]

might be the door, when moving those shit can happen

i did build some but had it the other way around thinking it was a turbine not a power drain but it didn,t crash my game so should be safe to use

[shell fiber]

Aaaah shit

[radiant heart]

Forgot to mention, new landing pad is really cool! I like that you can put storage or other stuff, under, really neat!

Looks like something is up with the baloon tho, it's not beeing built 🤔 well it got built finally but "not connected" .... is that the old thing that never got fixed? And it's invisible

And on that note, GN!

[shell fiber]

Did you connect both doors?

[radiant heart]

both doors?

oups

nevermind

[shell fiber]

One door is the building itself, the other is the path to the balloon pad 😉

[radiant heart]

still invisible tho, might just be a little glicth, will see tomorrow when i reopen the game if it's there i guess

[radiant heart]

nice way to avoid having the +3 pop 🤣 or both need to be connected for the balloon to fly?

[shell fiber]

Uuh if you find y connect the first door I think it should still work

[radiant heart]

hope smart power doesn't brake it 🤔

[shell fiber]

But unoccupied houses will have some issues eventually

[shell fiber]

Looks like it does 😅

[radiant heart]

that wouls suck big time, actually got half my town empty trying to get back from the pop crash, also for hard mode where pop crasehs are kind of a must 🤦‍♂️

[radiant heart]

will see tom, need to hit the bed for real, later 👋

[shell fiber]

Maybe we can ask whoever made this to fix it

Wait that's an issue for the it calculator too so should work

GN

[tall cobalt]

Minus side of the barrels having a worker is the constant "building lacks workers (39)" alert meaning that it is even more difficult to keep track of how many of them are "real" workplaces

Like, having to remember that 9 of them are wood burners, primitive smelters, and mushroom growers is trouble enough

but how am I supposed to keep track of a gazillion kimchi barrels too

[rancid temple]

@shell fiber The bad water bucket building works great, much better than starting with the powered version... jail broke

[shell fiber]

Yeah I'll fix the jail ASAP

[rancid temple]

having occassional problems connecting mud bath to road as well

just reloading a save to see if the problem persists with a new build

[rancid temple]

having bad tide kill all but one of the berries on helix map makes for a tough start

[rancid temple]

after some careful clearing and a few cycles nursed it to 12 berry plants, the price of the tree nursery should come down a bit to allow for earlier berries

[empty brook]

Are they gathering bad water by hand, one cup full at a time?

[faint stirrup]

I had the same issue on helix except it killed all of them so i'm slowly limping through on the grow gardens until i can unlock enough

[radiant heart]

yeah that's super annoying, gonna be an incentive to even move kimchy to the wine cellar 😆

[radiant heart]

it's the idea that you have to take care of them carefully, there is the hobby gardener if you really want more but it's not a super source

Perhaps maybe the spreading speed of the berries could be buffed up a bit tho to give them the chance to grow past the contaminated line when it's too close at first

[radiant heart]

it doesn't and the balloon is back !

[rancid temple]

not much you can do to save things when a single bad tide kills all blue berries on the map except one

[radiant heart]

on the helix run i did with IT it killed all but 3, that's enough to regrow a patch away from the river with some irrigation, sure is a pain in the ass tho and will slow down the start a lot

[rancid temple]

Ive got it tapered south out of range now, waiting on a jail patch to continue that run

[radiant heart]

sure without a decontaminations method it's not ideal

[rancid temple]

I really like the bad water bucket change, brings start of research from cycle 11-12 to 8 for me on same map

[radiant heart]

it's a neat addition, just too far on my actual run to care about it, busy braking later stuff 🤣

[radiant heart]

talking about braking shit, the mega drill is not totally broken but acting up a bit, really need sorages that ask for it now to get it emptied

[radiant heart]

there is heavy machinery death in the small mine now? medium one is on pause 🤔

[storm prawn]

Ah, so it wasn't just my beavers that didn't go get decontaminated

Any chance the overhang platforms could be built off the game's default stackable storage (Large Industrial Pile, Medium Warehouse, Large Warehouse)? Otherwise they're really not stackable, since using ladders for access no longer works (or am I just using them wrong')
That, or make a new version of those storages with their own built-in overhangs

[radiant heart]

the overhang only goes on watertight parts of buildings, since those are not it's normal you can't get the overhangs there

using ladders for acces should work, thing is to build higher then 2 you need to use your imagination since beavers can't build over themself

❓ is that something there that could be the cause of the frequent lag spikes but it happenned at the same time as a save that time around? 🤔

[radiant heart]

How a hout a mega drill only for dirt, with the amount needed for the degree and nursery i'm stockpilling coal and iron like a madman just to get enough dirt 😅

[storm prawn]

No, the new ladder (RippedLadder, was it?) doesn't seem connect/path to anything on top ... is it bugged?
I had to re-enable the previous one (Ladder.WaterBeavers) in the FactionSpecification

[radiant heart]

what version are you on?

ladder is essentially the same but more expensive

Lapan tweeked some things tho so they caN't be used as platforms for windmills and such tho so maybe something broke

[storm prawn]

on v3.0.11

[radiant heart]

there was some modification Lapan had to do on the ladders on 3.0.10 but not sure if it was done on 11.

He should be up in 3h~ish tho, will let him awnser to the concern, i'm not sure so rather say nothing

[radiant heart]

No idea what is causing that but the lag is getting quite bad, not talking about fps dropping but actual freeze for a few seconds, anyone else getting that?

[radiant heart]

Are balloons not flying anymore?

[shell fiber]

I think I already made it accessible quite a lot earlier, the problem here is clearly helix mountain.

[shell fiber]

I'll get a bigger barrel going soon 😉

[radiant heart]

gonna sure enjoy it on another run, got my first batch of degree done, second one forgot to remake shroom juice 🤦‍♂️ probably lost a whole set of 3 ond that woopsy

[rancid temple]

Im determined to play through on helix, just waiting on jail fix

[shell fiber]

You probably have to properly build a path on the ladder for it to connect now

[shell fiber]

To play on helix I think you need to make a levee barrier to protect berries from the river pollution

But that also blocs irrigation...

[rancid temple]

in the south east its a matter of getting ahead of the brambles allowing berries to spread south

with a lido on the platform 1 block higher gives room for about 30 berries safe from tides

[radiant heart]

Just a tought, Gaz tanks seems a bit procy when you can just make a gizillion barrels that will actually make and store it 🤔

[radiant heart]

Is it possible to make a larger cauldron on the hot storage?

[shell fiber]

Can increase the storage cap I guess 🤔

But it's okay for it to be somewhat unnecessary

[radiant heart]

specially with a larger barrell, might just scrap it and make the larger barrell use metal directly 🤔

[shell fiber]

oh that's an idea 🤔
but every item needs a storage anyway

[storm prawn]

Already tried that, it doesn't work ... gotta get some screenshots to show what's going on

[shell fiber]

🤔

well, i just uploaded a fix for the jail, didn't touch that
i'll check next time

@radiant heart i tried to refresh the deep water pump worker count, tell me if anything has changed (i couldn't see anything wrong)

both fermentation barrel types are available for people bothered by the empty worker slot thing

[storm prawn]

@shell fiber
Started a new game to make sure my save wasn't somehow broken
Still, it doesn't connect anywhere on top, even makes a path passing on it break ... also, why can i build a platform inside/over the ladder ?

[rancid temple]

have you got a road touching the bottom of the ladder back to district center, should see path line

[storm prawn]

yes i do have a path connecting the ladder to the district center ... the issue is with the ladder itself

[rancid temple]

taking a closer look i can see the vertical path line from ground up

in one pic

[faint stirrup]

Just wanted to say i'm really enjoying the dam drain house! completely changed how i handle water and bad tides although it does pump less than i was expecting...
I'm also likely using them a different way to planned but i actually prefer it the other way. I build the drain to pump filtered water and build it so the bad tide can over flow before hand so i guarantee clean water and anything i can't pump gets lost elsewhere anyway

[radiant heart]

is the one with no workers fixed tho? if not might just wanna put a warning in the description ( for those that read those things)

[radiant heart]

freeze is still there, gonna try to delete them all later see if it's that.

[radiant heart]

so changing the pumps didn't do anything... removed the deep ones and changed for normal ones

one thing tho, i took that delete and rebuild as an oportunity to dumb a few coocking houses under my pumps to rise them a bit and idk, feels like it got worst 🤔 could it come from there?

[radiant heart]

honestly i'm clueless, maybe i could send you my save and you open it to see ? maybe it's a local thing with my PC and i'm making you search for nothing🤔

or if anyone else is willing to test it out, just let me know i'll send it

[empty brook]

What's your pop

[radiant heart]

only 370

[empty brook]

The map is 256x256 right?

[radiant heart]

nope, i'm on waterfall, it's not that big if i recall correctly

[empty brook]

Hmmm

Ya I think that one's 192x192 or something close

I mean what you're describing sounds like the grinding lag i live with

[radiant heart]

it just freeze kinda like it does when autosaving but it's actually not

[empty brook]

Ya, my end games, every action causes lag that freezes the game for at least 15-30 seconds if not full minutes

[radiant heart]

it does freeze even at 1x and i'm just watching it, had colonies over 600 pop without that problem

[empty brook]

Maybe it's one of the buildings? Like any funny or bugged animations?

Like the game doesn't like to render it

[radiant heart]

maybe, problem is i can't recall when it started so it's a bit hard to find out what could actually be the cause

[empty brook]

Ya, it's usually difficult to ferret the issue down

Start with buildings you only have one of?

[radiant heart]

at first tought it was optimized housing moving beavers around too much, completely removed it and nothing,

afterwards i had a strange message in the console about deep pumps, deleted them all, still not the issue...

only building I have one of are the district center, librairy and the copy/artist lodges 🤣

[radiant heart]

On another note, dirt production becoming a bottleneck, even with pausing all the terraforming, can't really get a steady supply for degrees, nursery and the advanced shroom maker.
Not sure if it can be done but tought about that a while ago, some sort of sand square like a playground for the kids where they "make dirt"
Otherwise the simple one would be just a giga drill with a dirt only receipe ( and waste rock of course)

[empty brook]

I liked lapantouflemagic's idea to just have them dig down 1 block at a time removing 1k dirt from each block till you hit the bottom

Paw-dug-dirt

It's artisanal

Maybe this job makes them filthy faster or a higher rate

Or better yet, higher chance of filth tick as the hole gets deeper

Occasional death message about the earth having swallowed a beaver

Ya know, from like a cave in

[radiant heart]

and gonna end up with a shitload of stuck beavers in the holes 🤣

Fun fact, looks like beavers caN't survive drinking grape juice and sake only 😆 woopsy, forgot my water tanks were deconnected due to repathing project

[radiant heart]

FInnaly domesticated brambles!

[rancid temple]

what cycle?

[radiant heart]

56

could have been a bit sooner but wanted to make them in one particular spot

and dynamite production issues ...

[radiant heart]

didn't bramble use to take a day to make a flower?

[heavy lodge]

Not 3 ? At least, with extra crops mod, it takes 3 days

[thorn dune]

finally updated, and my reservoirs and farming all work now the pit_+ladder lodge is actually 2 high 😄
the dam drain looks useful but I'll have to think before I try and integrate it into a design

[radiant heart]

maybe it's an old version that used to be 1 and never really paid attention back to it untill now

[heavy lodge]

Maybe you can check also, if, on a dead but unharvested for log bramble, you can build something , whithout the need to demolish first ...

[radiant heart]

on a wild one you don't need, my domesticated ones are quite protected, can't really try that out

[heavy lodge]

I was talking about a bug with brambles in extra crops, want to know if in this mod is also present

[tepid thistle]

Is there any "more/most" official way to share feedback or is it just here? 😉

[radiant heart]

Best is in here, Lapan usually reads everything

can also do on the mod page on mod.io

[tepid thistle]

I'll try here then, thanks!

I guess I need to apologize for my former Napoleon comment first:
It is not any dislike towards M. Bonaparte ... it is more myself being mostly "non-martial" in my mind/world.
I truly adore M. Pasqueur and Mme. Curie ... I just dislike war and violence! ... ❤️ the sciences though! 😉
Could you please add some Billboards for them as well? 😉

And I still credit the French for pushing the "metre" and all of our modern measurements.
And I say: EFF off "Freedom-Units!" with all my heart 😉

Feel free to @ or DM for further discussions if you like 😄

[radiant heart]

Carefull what you ask for, a Pasteur/Curie billboard will probably have a radiation aura that will contaminate the beavers that go around it with some nuclear green glowy thing 😝

[thorn dune]

I'm scared of moaning about napoleon becasue I can't tell which of the three it is supposed to be.
four if you include the pig from animal farm

[tepid thistle]

I'll take the risk ... and yes, I built and figured the hard way what some of the more Anime related Billboards did :p

[radiant heart]

lol, didn't try, it, was a bout to but seen JC do it on YT

[rancid temple]

woops, was busy planning badwater diversion and didnt notice water wasnt topped off before second 9 bad tide in a row, from 169 to 2 beavers

[radiant heart]

as long as you got 2 the run is alive!

[rancid temple]

3! now

[radiant heart]

that's gonna be a huge inbreed pool tho

[rancid temple]

they're all named jr

[tepid thistle]

I just only watched like 2 JC vids and asked myself: "He for real?"
Then I tested for myself, then I knew ... YES ... he for real! 😄

[radiant heart]

yeah he wasn't trowing for content 😆

[tepid thistle]

To (try) to say in modernist: That Bitch is for REAL! 😉

I am in the early end-game with my own U4 White-Paws atm...
Any need to worry about more "time-sinks"? 😉

[radiant heart]

what do you call "early end-game" ? just built the ENS?

[rancid temple]

WB update 5 is a big step up

[radiant heart]

the biggest thing with U5 is irrigation towers gone (and the bugged stuff)

other then that it's not harder or anything, just diffrent

[rancid temple]

I like the badwater, makes it less linear progression

[tepid thistle]

I got several copies of most derees, I plant and harvest some BIG trees, regularly ...
I have a big solar-farm to power everything ... nice hospital, nost foods and drinks...

I do not want to throw any "hard" feedback around before I know better, mostly 😉

[rancid temple]

One nice change to early game is a unpowered badwater bucket station

[tepid thistle]

I, personally, am not a big friend of any and all "badwater" stuff!
BUT ... any advice for my U4 game? 😉
There are still some issues to solve! 😉

[radiant heart]

yeah that's a neat one

[radiant heart]

build more balloons to keep all the needs full and shoot for the sky on well-beeing

[rancid temple]

60?

[radiant heart]

think it goes over that, 60 isn't the vanilla max?

[rancid temple]

yeah with the extras i bet 100 is possible

[radiant heart]

think it's somewhere in the 70-80 if not more for WB

some are impossible to get to all beavers tho, Spacious house as an exemple

[rancid temple]

I try more less to go up 1 per cycle to keep up productivity

[radiant heart]

that's easier said then done, at some point extra well-beeing needs many steps and reduced working hours

[rancid temple]

yeah it happens to me around 40

[radiant heart]

that's about where i was at before my massive pop crash

back to 37

[rancid temple]

how massive?

[radiant heart]

not that massive but from 330 to 100

some feeding problem, drained my shrooms to make juice for the degree but it was my main food source

[rancid temple]

@shell fiber unity error The given key Lapantouflemagic.DeepMineMechModuleTemplate.Description was not present in the dictionary (it didnt crash just happened to notice in bepinex window)

[radiant heart]

there are a few of that, not a big issue, tends to be stuff still in development .. or woopsies from lapan 😆

[shell fiber]

Still in Dev, haven't had time to touch those in a while tbh

[shell fiber]

Yeah I don't understand this one either, I looked inside but I see nothing wrong that would cause that

But being able to flatten dead brambles is not too much of an issue to me 😉

[shell fiber]

Ahah no worries, I was not upset 😉
I use meters in the text of some buildings because sometimes I just don't find a nice wording to describe what I want to say. I just assume most people would connect one meter to one base length unit of the game

[tall cobalt]

I usually call it "blocks"

as in, two blocks deep, three blocks long, etc.

[shell fiber]

Oh yeah that works !

Why didn't I think of it before 🤔

Maybe I'll re-word it someday

[shell fiber]

Anyway, the point is in not some sort of French supremacist it anything 😅

[rancid temple]

lmao

[rancid temple]

Any chance you could make the red text in building info boxs a lighter shade of red to make it easier to read

[rancid temple]

Megadtructure engineer lodge has a color tag showing

[shell fiber]

possible

but this kind of things require a bit or trial and error

[radiant heart]

Do grapes and Bamboo spread naturaly like all others in the "trees / bush" tab?

[shell fiber]

uuh

pretty sure not

new version uploaded 🙂

[radiant heart]

Yay!

[rancid temple]

Are the no beaver barrels working?

in .13

[rancid temple]

@radiant heart how many ballon pads do you use, im debating on switching ballons as needed

[faint stirrup]

Anyone else having trouble loading saves on .13? .12 is fine

[radiant heart]

roughly, ballons are intended to be 1 per 100 beavers for the food needs, might not be fully ballanced but it's the rough idea

like atm i bumped over 400 beavers, need to build a 5th for ananas

[rancid temple]

Im still early stages, around cycle 33, have large farm, ballon pad, giant tank, washer, am just doing both ens bps

[radiant heart]

might wanna get the tree nursery too before going for the ENS stuff

[radiant heart]

loading was a bit long but nothing dramatic

[rancid temple]

thats what the ballon pad was for, seeds

What are you working on now?

[radiant heart]

getting bananas and my giga battery project

wine and beer also

[rancid temple]

My previous run i had raw grapes but didnt get to wine

[radiant heart]

wine is a +5 wellbeeing, good to get

[radiant heart]

sinve only purpose of the treb workers is to carry rock, shouldn't they get a little carry capacity buff?

Or a huge capacity buff with a slight walking speed debuff? 🤔

[faint stirrup]

I waited about 5 minutes and gave up, .12 was around 40 seconds for the same save

[radiant heart]

what pop size ?

[faint stirrup]

500. Ok, another request, can we bump the dam drain speed a little? On helix, 3 full speed drains isn't enough to handle the main bad tide run and as they shouldn't be stacked, they can't fully stop it

[radiant heart]

gonna see when i reopen the game if loading time is that bad, maybe i didn't have that many of the buildings with the new features

[radiant heart]

well, that's something i never did the maths for... 3 trebs per giga drill to keep it empty is a bit intense 🤣

[faint stirrup]

Nice for science though

[radiant heart]

yeah but it's hard on ground space untill we get the sequoias back and can make clockwork tower farms

[rancid temple]

With .13 and required mods i get to load 273 prefabs and it hangs (let it sit for 20 minutes just in case) i dont get as far as the loaded in x ms line

[sullen cape]

Plant some, then remove the planting area

[radiant heart]

tried that but they don't seem to spread, was asking to see if it was intended for them to spread or not

looks like treb consumes a lot of ressources, fps tanked big time with 5 built 😦

[radiant heart]

forgot to mention, a little power project too for clockwork tower when soquoias get back in 😉

[radiant heart]

Something strange still going on with the ladder, can't put a 3rd on top even if there is a ground lvl (under the rubble) at the same height as the top of the second one

Normaly they should be able to get on the land to build the 3rd one , no?

if i put 2 columns of ladders side by side it works but not if i build up the land beside it, didn't wanna do that double ladder cheaty shit but... becoming my only option

[shell fiber]

hmm...last one for me is 266 and it takes roughtly 4 minutes 🤔

[radiant heart]

i'll give it a try, up to almost 500 pop

hope it reopens 🤞

[shell fiber]

oh shit

game freeze when trying to place a tree nursery

oh unfroze

[radiant heart]

all those buildings with the gigantic aura freeze

[shell fiber]

crap

[radiant heart]

guessing it's also the reason why reloading is super long

[shell fiber]

probably

[radiant heart]

had none in when first opened 13, took the average normal time, now it's been 4 minuntes and not open yet,

[shell fiber]

well shit

that compromizes the entire system

but don't really have that much time to mod today

[radiant heart]

just shrink the aura a bit maybe, like keep it "fountain of joy" size, i know it's not waht you wanna do but it's better then nothing i guess

and could help the freeze

[shell fiber]

well i need at least the district center to have a gigantic range

otherwise weird crap happens

but for the other i can do with 40-50 range

[radiant heart]

wow, 8 minutes loading time...

[shell fiber]

well i think i can kill that version on mod.io

[radiant heart]

yeah

[shell fiber]

still some issues with giant sequoias

but got to go

[radiant heart]

later 👋

[rancid temple]

cya

can you put tower segments in a hole and have the entrance above then with gound level door

[radiant heart]

yes

[rancid temple]

good! blasted a hole for giant tank in a spot that was too shallow

[radiant heart]

did that mistake too, forgot they got deeper on U5 😂

[rancid temple]

did you end up with multiple ens?

[radiant heart]

back to none, had 3 at some point

[rancid temple]

did you do all the degrees?

[radiant heart]

did like 24 agronomy and 3 metal ones

others are useless, for now at least

[radiant heart]

On the zone preview for a flag or whatever, the zone doesn't extend with the ladder unless you drop a path on it, guess it's part of the same problem, hope it helps a bit finding the issue

[radiant heart]

Bananas will grow without the greenhouse but won't be gathered btw

[shell fiber]

bananas are cut by lumberjacks, not farmers

i reduced the auras to 75 which causes less trouble but is still huge

probably fixed the ladder

[shell fiber]

updating

now i need to rework that cursed greenhouse

[radiant heart]

i took the time to read that one 😉 so yes i tried with lumberjack. guess it's something greenhouse related

Grennhouse is acting strange yes, tried to put 2 not directly side by side leaving a 1 square in between but it made the other disapear when placing the second. In diagonal with a one square space it worked tho

[shell fiber]

yeah i have really no idea what the hell is wrong with those, i see no issue with the block occupancy, yet the damn thing collapses when you do just anything next to it

[radiant heart]

and i was not directly next to it, left a space since in the description it's clear that they can't toutch

Maybe make the greenhouse have a worker and work kinda like a clockfarm that doesn't require external planting ( and have it consuming exotic seeds)

cauz atm all the nursery stuff can be planted once and forgotten about so the seed balloon becomes obselete quite fast

not that big of a deal with the amount of balloons required to keep up with the larger pops but still, in the miindset that nothing becomes obselete

[shell fiber]

oooooh i just understood

[radiant heart]

is it becaause it doesn't cost 69 glass ? 😝

[shell fiber]

no it's because it is crushable (no shit sherlock) but because on the first level it has "full" occupancy, which notably include the "bottom" segment that is occupied by the rubble, so if any rubble gets moved into the greenhouse space, it collapses

if you try to build on clean ground it's just fine

so i'm changing the occupancy so that it doesn't conflict with rubble.

still going to be a fragile mess though

but i'm not going to make an update just for that

time to sleep, i'll get up early tomorrow

[radiant heart]

cool! GN

got a few notes for balance stuff but untill sequoias are back most of it is subject to change so let's keep that for a later date

[shell fiber]

next thing i should really add to my list : custom storage for glass panes and sawblades

think the sequoia should work now

[radiant heart]

ok, will try them out

[shell fiber]

ladders too

and auras are less broken

[radiant heart]

later tho got a day of meeting can't really test stuff out till the evenng

[shell fiber]

okidoki

GN !

[rancid temple]

Just downloading, Ill check the sequoias this afternoon

[radiant heart]

hope it works, need my clockwork tower, food is getting tight with the extra 200 mouths to feed that popped up yesterday 😅

[radiant heart]

🤔 removes the one under at least when clicking

Can't define the planting zone for the sequoia in the craddle

but bananas can go in the middle square of the sequoia craddle

[radiant heart]

ladders looks ok tho

[radiant heart]

sequoias geting planted outside the craddle tho

do we still need the special cutter for that or it's lumberjacks now?

[radiant heart]

not sure why but that time it worked and now it won't let me put them side by side, need a 1 gap

[shell fiber]

Sequoia cradle is no longer necessary

[shell fiber]

Oh right, they can probably fit in weird places, need to check that out

[shell fiber]

Well they clearly overlap here so that's not surprising 😅

[radiant heart]

the 2 on the left don't

it worked that time but tried again and it won't work

[shell fiber]

Special cutter is on holiday with the irrigation towers at the moment 😥

[radiant heart]

had to place them like that

[radiant heart]

ok, but can the lumberjack cut them or they just decorations for now ?

[shell fiber]

If you clear all that rubble first they should fit nicely adjacent to each other. At least I think

[shell fiber]

I saw one munching on the tree when testing so they should cut them fine

[radiant heart]

ok, will give it a try, 25% of the growth done

[radiant heart]

yup, it does

[shell fiber]

Ah good

[radiant heart]

and here starts the journey to the clockwork food tower !

if giant sequoias wiggle when getting cut down it's gonna be scary 😅

[shell fiber]

The only thing that is slightly weird is that lights glow before the building is build 🤔

[radiant heart]

kinda like the great tent, the fire is there before the thhing is built

[radiant heart]

lol, the sequoia shake is quite funny

and it got cut and didn't crash!

might have stayed up a bit too late but worth it! that works, storage feels a bit useless tho, can you lower the amount the lumberjack stores without affecting the capacity for regular logs?

still getting the storage cauz it looks awesome tho!

and bananas beeing bananas... not waiting for the greenhouse ( kinda like sequoia did with the craddle)

[shell fiber]

nope, that's the problem

[shell fiber]

yeah makes sense

[rancid temple]

ahhh pop crash and last couple beavers are starving to death in the shower

[static glacier]

does that count as a success in building vertical? XD i have no idea where my buildings are and how they are powered

[rancid temple]

Beavers are definately getting stuck in showers during bad tides

Ive been watchingone thats been in for 9 days, wet & clean fur at full green

[radiant heart]

can't gather them tho so it's alright !

[shell fiber]

love it !

[radiant heart]

i mean can't gather with the green house not build, still need 400 science for the chunker to make the glass

to try it out

(i try and go along without cheater mode even if testing) so i'll wait, at least the treb science output is quite nice with 6 firing almost full time!

at that point a mega drill that pumps out only waste rock would even be interesting

My new science center !

[shell fiber]

be careful i might want to nerf that science output 😅

[radiant heart]

just boosting the worker and amount shot at once would still reduce the science and be more convinient, 3 trebs per mine is a bit much IMO

or even more simple, just reduce the rock output of the drill

[shell fiber]

well the amount of rock produced by the mine needs to feel right relative to the amount of other stuff produced

i already doubled the amount of rocks thrown away

[radiant heart]

Oooo didn't notice

was wondering why science wasn't going faster, that was on .14?

[shell fiber]

but i also doubled the amount of science generated

no it's from the last one

but probably you end up clogging on smelting and/or on metal usage

[radiant heart]

well guess i didn't look at my trebs since the change

with 5 balloons constantly bringning in annanas for metal fastener...

not much blockage

[shell fiber]

even with 400 beavers, that's a hundred fixtures consumed / 3 days, which is what one drill makes in what ? 24 h ?

eh

that's fine

[radiant heart]

didn't do the maths

[shell fiber]

but maybe i will reduce the science output

[radiant heart]

got 5 primitive metal shop doing just that ( maybe 6)

[shell fiber]

the one science was meant as a silly gimmick, not intended as an actual science source

i doubled the trebuchet reciepe because i don't want people to need 12 of them

[radiant heart]

drop it by half would be fair i think

well, 4 drills and you will need those 12 trebs

i feel like 1,5 treb / 1 mega drill would be a descent ratio

(excluding walking time with rocks)

[shell fiber]

i think when i at last move to make the nuclear power plant, i'll make it cost concrete and stuff, probably costing in the thousands of rocks

[radiant heart]

is the sequoia burning mega engine on the table or we going straight nuclear after the large waterwheel?

[shell fiber]

probably straight to nuclear

[radiant heart]

idk, would be nice some half descent BP locked reliable power, solar array is a cool back up but output is kinda mheee

for the size it is at least, can't build thatmany of those

[shell fiber]

oh right i had completely forgot about this one

but i don't want something too reliable, it makes the rest useless

[radiant heart]

well, it's water or shit wind atm....

[shell fiber]

well water then 😇

[radiant heart]

droughts

[shell fiber]

batteries 🙂

[radiant heart]

those guys need to work

not done yet

can't wait to get flywheels back

[shell fiber]

I think this game often suffers from the "optimal solution" issue

like people are not satisfied with something accessible like batteries, because they can't directly put them in outer space 😅

[radiant heart]

if i'm gonna do it, i'll do it once at max efficiency !

once one are 2 are built curious to see max power

also need to finish shafting my map, now power is beeing made everywhere, trying to do it neat without just mashing universal shafts 😉

Did you nerf the cleaning speed of the showers too?

not sure bout you but i don't need a full day to wash 😆

those a clearly not environmental friendly

way too much wasted water

[radiant heart]

oups, how about moving the door one to the right 🤣 asking for a fren

[rancid temple]

Im finding the beavers get stuk in showers

[radiant heart]

it's super long to get them to clean theyr fur in there

maybe when lapan nerfed the cleaning from beeing in water it messed up the shower ? 🤔

[radiant heart]

lumberjacks are shy of the bannannnass, not getting in the greenhouse to get them

[radiant heart]

🤔 Looks like they don't wanna build the giant platform, at least on the greenhouse, bee sitting like that for a few days now ( and got 18 buildders)

forcing it didn't crash the game at least

deleting it froze the game tho

rubbles falling in the greenhouse maybe?

🤔 remember when i said something about super platform no the same height on clockwork or greenhouse? right was greenhouse before i deleted it, it's clearly one block higher

and same deal on top of the clockwork farm, it won't get build... they don't bring the ressources

[shell fiber]

be careful they only can get in thrtough the doors

[shell fiber]

yes the greenhouse is one block taller

[shell fiber]

don't forget those are megastructures now, only build by the megastructure engineers

[shell fiber]

hmm... contaminated beavers ? or normal beavers ?

[rancid temple]

normal, dirty, thristy, hungry

[faint stirrup]

Any way to make the dam drain not have dwellers? Since if its handling bad water its going to have bad water on either side so their always getting contaminated

[heavy lodge]

Will have some new fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gIa1LYRtC0 🤣

[radiant heart]

oups

[radiant heart]

the door wasn't blocked

[radiant heart]

on my side they don't get stuck but they need a ludacris amount of time to get cleaned up, maybe the nerfing of the clean fur in water affected the shower?

[radiant heart]

Am I blind or engineers are gona atm?

[radiant heart]

well, can't really be closer to the door and still no banaannnaaaasssss 😦

[silver phoenix]

https://puu.sh/JVirs/73e2d46b7b.png he mad

[sullen cape]

I've been watching JC The Beard's brain melt, can't imagine RCE doing much better
Good luck to both of you though!